: You say that like this doesn't destroy squishies even harder, Max HP damage on LT is a very stupid decision Riot made regarding the item because of champions that can/will abuse it to no end. Riot's PBE solution so far has been "Lowering the max HP damage fro 2% to 1%", which does nothing as long as Mord and Brand exist in the game with max HP damage already in their kits.
> [{quoted}](name=ShuyinTheX,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WOEMdMNV,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-02-11T19:06:47.710+0000) > > You say that like this doesn't destroy squishies even harder, Max HP damage on LT is a very stupid decision Riot made regarding the item because of champions that can/will abuse it to no end. > Riot's PBE solution so far has been "Lowering the max HP damage fro 2% to 1%", which does nothing as long as Mord and Brand exist in the game with max HP damage already in their kits. How exactly does this destroy squishies even harder? It is " % max health damage" and squishes have pretty low max health as they don't usually build tank items. It is literally geared towards bullshit like 5k hp Cho gath (so fun when he walk in taking no damage and point and clicks any of you). It is also so good when a 2 item Maokai can fight for 30 seconds by autoing the enemy and getting back 1/3 health every time...so inspiring gameplay. So yeah..fuck tanks and fuck the fact that they are relevant no matter how hard you deny them top lane. Let them burn.
: Liandry's Torment Changes Are Too Powerful
It is high time tanks start taking some damage. They make the game dull. They render top lane a farm lane. This is a very good change..give something like this to Bruisers too!
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 2
Hey Meddler, I really liked your points about laning phase in your earlier "Gameplay thoughts". >Should last for a fair duration and success during lane should set you up with a meaningful advantage post laning phase. If you win hard enough, and translate that lead into a wider advantage for your team, that could be very influential in deciding the game outcome. Tanks in season 8 do not have a weak early game, they are tanky already when walking to lane. No matter what you do, you just cannot gain a lead or "win hard enough" against them. And I'm talking about true damage carries like Camille / Fiora / Irelia. These champions have a 45-47% win rate against tanks which should be examined by the live design team. Your thoughts?
jadelink (OCE)
: Nasus has his win rate plummet massively with the nerfs to klepto. Go check lolalytics for much more accurate data than champion.gg. Tanks dont win LANE against bruisers, they win games. The onus is on the bruiser to use the advantage they have to snowball the map early, and make sure teamfights happen before tanks get truly tanky. You seem to have the idea that the lane is lost because the matchup is unfavourable, when in fact, the tank has to endure a 15 minute beating, die a couple of times and fall significantly behind in cs, before being allowed to ult the enemy adc, lockdown half the team and win the teamfight. Again, tank players usually possess a far better understanding of the game than Top carry players. Thats how they win. Though they also may lack mechanical skills. I see this as a jungler so very often.
> [{quoted}](name=jadelink,realm=OCE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=iGclmY4q,comment-id=00a20000,timestamp=2018-01-27T18:22:48.996+0000) > > Nasus has his win rate plummet massively with the nerfs to klepto. Go check lolalytics for much more accurate data than champion.gg. > > Tanks dont win LANE against bruisers, they win games. The onus is on the bruiser to use the advantage they have to snowball the map early, and make sure teamfights happen before tanks get truly tanky. You seem to have the idea that the lane is lost because the matchup is unfavourable, when in fact, the tank has to endure a 15 minute beating, die a couple of times and fall significantly behind in cs, before being allowed to ult the enemy adc, lockdown half the team and win the teamfight. > > Again, tank players usually possess a far better understanding of the game than Top carry players. Thats how they win. Though they also may lack mechanical skills. I see this as a jungler so very often. And btw just a little dose of reality about Nasus: https://clips.twitch.tv/ConcernedSteamyHerbsSaltBae This is a 900k Diamond 3 Camille OTP on EUW. Interesting stuff, eh?
jadelink (OCE)
: Nasus has his win rate plummet massively with the nerfs to klepto. Go check lolalytics for much more accurate data than champion.gg. Tanks dont win LANE against bruisers, they win games. The onus is on the bruiser to use the advantage they have to snowball the map early, and make sure teamfights happen before tanks get truly tanky. You seem to have the idea that the lane is lost because the matchup is unfavourable, when in fact, the tank has to endure a 15 minute beating, die a couple of times and fall significantly behind in cs, before being allowed to ult the enemy adc, lockdown half the team and win the teamfight. Again, tank players usually possess a far better understanding of the game than Top carry players. Thats how they win. Though they also may lack mechanical skills. I see this as a jungler so very often.
> [{quoted}](name=jadelink,realm=OCE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=iGclmY4q,comment-id=00a20000,timestamp=2018-01-27T18:22:48.996+0000) > > Nasus has his win rate plummet massively with the nerfs to klepto. Go check lolalytics for much more accurate data than champion.gg. > > Tanks dont win LANE against bruisers, they win games. The onus is on the bruiser to use the advantage they have to snowball the map early, and make sure teamfights happen before tanks get truly tanky. You seem to have the idea that the lane is lost because the matchup is unfavourable, when in fact, the tank has to endure a 15 minute beating, die a couple of times and fall significantly behind in cs, before being allowed to ult the enemy adc, lockdown half the team and win the teamfight. > > Again, tank players usually possess a far better understanding of the game than Top carry players. Thats how they win. Though they also may lack mechanical skills. I see this as a jungler so very often. While your input is appreciated I was mainly interested in what Rioters had to say about this. > The onus is on the bruiser to use the advantage they have to snowball the map early And this is my main problem. Tanks are extremely tanky early game now. Try to push out or kill an Ornn or a Maokai in lane. Tell me how you do it because I'm quite sure that you can't do it with Camille / Jax early game. Given equal skill they will outtrade / outsustain you right now. > the tank has to endure a 15 minute beating, die a couple of times and fall significantly behind in cs, Perhaps in OCE silver this is the case but in EUW plat and higher a tank will NOT be killed in lane. They will simply recall and lose a little farm but again, their items are so cheap that they can do that. What you are writing here is simply not applicable to the game currently. Perhaps it was the case in season 5 and before.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 26
Greetings, I was wondering if there are any plans in the near (or distant) future to address the state of overbuffed tanks / juggernauts. Nasus has been sitting on a 53-54% win rate with HIGH PLAY RATE for over 2 months now. The tank class update also made tanks more beefy in general as did Runes Reforged. My basic issue here is that you removed the only counterplay to tanks: their weak early game. Now a tank is tanky even early without items or with half an item. If they play smart they cannot be killed, they just recall and miss some farm which they are certainly able to do so seeing the price tag on tank items. Furthermore if I look at ANY site with statistics (op-gg, champions-gg, lolking etc.) I see that bruisers LOSE to tanks. Even those bruisers who have true damage and whose primary aim is to get ahead and carry. How can a buffed Camille / Fiora / Irelia now have tanks listed as "losing lanes" (statistically) ? How come when I look at Nasus's counters it is other tanks, not true damage carries created to kill tanks? Something is very wrong here. Are we gonna have another Malzahar (Nasus) for months with 55% win rate and high play rate? Finally the current state of these tanks hurts gameplay. Basically when a tank walks to lane with 800 hp their presence renders the lane a complete farm lane void of any PvP action / meaningful interaction in lane. Since the catch-up xp has been modified you cannot really set them behind in xp either. The gold difference does not really matter when a Frozen Heart costs 2700 gold and grants 100 armor, CDR, mana. Is there any reason why tank items are dirt cheap yet more efficient than damage items? A personal remark: by letting these champions rule top lane you are rewarding players with poor mechanical skills and poor understanding of the game (tank kits are much more forgiving) while taking away the incentive for a new player to master a Camille or a Jax...or anything that requires good mechanics and good macro. 8% play rate Nasus...slowly every 10th top lane player will pick him for freelo? Thank you very much for reading and I really appreciate it if you could answer here. (I already tried to ask Rioters about this but have not received a reply yet).
Novalas (NA)
: Patch Chat with the Playtest Team - 8.2
Greetings, I was wondering if there are any plans in the near (or distant) future to address the state of overbuffed tanks / juggernauts. Nasus has been sitting on a 53-54% win rate with HIGH PLAY RATE for over 2 months now. The tank class update also made tanks more beefy in general as did Runes Reforged. My basic issue here is that you removed the only counterplay to tanks: their weak early game. Now a tank is tanky even early without items or with half an item. If they play smart they cannot be killed, they just recall and miss some farm which they are certainly able to do so seeing the price tag on tank items. Furthermore if I look at ANY site with statistics (op-gg, champions-gg, lolking etc.) I see that bruisers LOSE to tanks. Even those bruisers who have true damage and whose primary aim is to get ahead and carry. How can a buffed Camille / Fiora / Irelia now have tanks listed as "losing lanes" (statistically) ? How come when I look at Nasus's counters it is other tanks, not true damage carries created to kill tanks? Something is very wrong here. Are we gonna have another Malzahar (Nasus) for months with 55% win rate and high play rate? Finally the current state of these tanks hurts gameplay. Basically when a tank walks to lane with 800 hp their presence renders the lane a complete farm lane void of any PvP action / meaningful interaction in lane. Since the catch-up xp has been modified you cannot really set them behind in xp either. The gold difference does not really matter when a Frozen Heart costs 2700 gold and grants 100 armor, CDR, mana. Is there any reason why tank items are dirt cheap yet more efficient than damage items? A personal remark: by letting these champions rule top lane you are rewarding players with poor mechanical skills and poor understanding of the game (tank kits are much more forgiving) while taking away the incentive for a new player to master a Camille or a Jax...or anything that requires good mechanics and good macro. 8% play rate Nasus...slowly every 10th top lane player will pick him for freelo? Thank you very much for reading and I really appreciate it if you could answer here. (I already tried to ask Rioters about this but have not received a reply yet). Thank you for reading.
Novalas (NA)
: Patch Chat with the Playtest Team - 8.2
Greetings, I was wondering if there are any plans in the near (or distant) future to address the state of overbuffed tanks / juggernauts. Nasus has been sitting on a 53-54% win rate with HIGH PLAY RATE for over 2 months now. The tank class update also made tanks more beefy in general as did Runes Reforged. My basic issue here is that you removed the only counterplay to tanks: their weak early game. Now a tank is tanky even early without items or with half an item. If they play smart they cannot be killed, they just recall and miss some farm which they are certainly able to do so seeing the price tag on tank items. Furthermore if I look at ANY site with statistics (op-gg, champions-gg, lolking etc.) I see that bruisers LOSE to tanks. Even those bruisers who have true damage and whose primary aim is to get ahead and carry. How can a buffed Camille / Fiora / Irelia now have tanks listed as "losing lanes" (statistically) ? How come when I look at Nasus's counters it is other tanks, not true damage carries created to kill tanks? Something is very wrong here. Are we gonna have another Malzahar (Nasus) for months with 55% win rate and high play rate? Finally the current state of these tanks hurts gameplay. Basically when a tank walks to lane with 800 hp their presence renders the lane a complete farm lane void of any PvP action / meaningful interaction in lane. Since the catch-up xp has been modified you cannot really set them behind in xp either. The gold difference does not really matter when a Frozen Heart costs 2700 gold and grants 100 armor, CDR, mana. Is there any reason why tank items are dirt cheap yet more efficient than damage items? A personal remark: by letting these champions rule top lane you are rewarding players with poor mechanical skills and poor understanding of the game (tank kits are much more forgiving) while taking away the incentive for a new player to master a Camille or a Jax...or anything that requires good mechanics and good macro. 8% play rate Nasus...slowly every 10th top lane player will pick him for freelo? Thank you very much for reading and I really appreciate it if you could answer here. (I already tried to ask Rioters about this but have not received a reply yet).
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 24
So tanks basically should be nerfed because right now they render top lane a farm lane...void of any PvP action. A boring uninspired meta.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 19
> If Nasus is on top of you and has a bunch of stacks you're often just screwed - it's a basic attack modifier there's no way to outplay at that point. There's a lot of counterplay to Nasus as a whole though around keeping distance from him and shutting down his ability to build stacks and needed items in the first place. Counterplay's spread different parts of the game, from how you mechanically use your abilities, to how you play strategically (e.g. when to roam) I don't know if the live design team nowadays played against Nasus or not but this is just not true. By buffing tanks in Season 8 and buffing Nasus for months you arrived at a point where there is nothing you can do against a decent Nasus. He shrugs off early poke due to how tanky he is EARLY GAME and how much sustain he has. Ever stopped for a minute to ask yourselves why Nasus players now get away with building SHEEN first item? They are so tanky they can itemize aggressively. Also..good luck getting away from a point and click ability that basically stops you in your tracks and (90% slow and half the attack speed...wow that's counterplay). What you guys did is buff bad kits (Nasus, Cho, Garen) to the point where these bad champions rule top lane and bully bruisers. We have the Malzahar syndrome again...54% win rate Nasus with high play rate and you do nothing. When statistics show that bruisers with true damage LOSE against Nasus you should start thinking. And this is a problem with tanks in general..they used to have a weak early game which you REMOVED. You removed the only counterplay to tanks: a half-wit tank just loses a few minions and recalls, you cannot kill him if he does not want to die. And they are certainly allowed to lose miniions because their items are DIRT CHEAP. You cannot get them behind in experience either because you modified the catch up xp to make this game even more dumb and casual friendly. This meta top lane rewards low risk low skilled champions and suffocates high skill cap ones.
: Mmhmm... and Akali is able to be countered... how? Assuming you say "Play X champion to beat Akali top otherwise you lose" then that proves that Akali is unhealthy. If Akali is impossible to beat for the majority of toplaners in the "weak earlygame" then that makes her one "weak" part of the game non-existent and therefore makes Akali overpowered If Akali is "weak" past the 35+ minute mark then why does her kit allow her to be an effective lategame diver/disruptor that is IMPOSSIBLE to ignore? Akali's kit has no actual counterplay besides "wait for her to do something and out DPS her" which is the defining trait of a stat-check champion. Now some stat-check champions such as {{champion:39}}, {{champion:82}}, and {{champion:24}} have been balanced due to specific moves that need to be avoided in order to give them a run for their money. {{champion:39}} has her E that MUST be played around/accounted for when fighting against her. This leads to people trading with an Irelia player in an interactive way in order to attempt to bait out her E before the stun is able to be applied. {{champion:82}}'s E and Q and two moves that even an immobile juggernaut can play around by keeping track of what {{champion:82}} hits with his Q(in case he's setting up for a flash QEWR combo) and moving away until the Q timer(which is only 1.5 seconds per level) runs out. {{champion:24}}'s E and ultimate are what defines and allow his stat-check playstyle to let him run over anyone he wants after a few items. Enemies can bait out the 8 second timer for his ultimate with CC and slows. This leaves {{champion:24}} extremely vulnerable AND without defenses. The same thing can be said about Jax's E in regards to how it leaves him vulnerable and how to stop it from being effective. ----------------------------- {{champion:84}} is a stat-check champion who has no abilities that can be played around which leaves her with a "strength" that the other stat-checkers don't have. Attempt to wait-out Akali's Q? It lasts 6 seconds and has a 6 second cooldown which lowers to 5.5 from one level up which allows her to proc her to use a QQ combo for free damage. That combo stops ANY toplaner from retaliating due to the damage threat that Akali is from levels 1-10. Use AOE abilities on Akali's W? if the majority of toplaners _**HAD**_ AOE abilities, there would be very little complains about Akali's W. "Dodge" Akali's E? Akali's E is in melee range and as such it's practically un-dodgable for melee champs Akali is "weak" to CC? What champion in the game isn't weak to CC abilities. Do tell!!! Gangplank's W has an insanely high Cooldown and GP builds 1 CDR item on average at MOST, Alistar's ultimate is an ultimate ability which makes it BALANCED that he can skip out on taking one form of CC. Akali is a stat-check and as such, she is too strong at the moment due to the amount of champions that beat her being in a different lane than what her weaknesses apply to. A {{champion:164}} is un-able to win a laning phase against a half-wit {{champion:84}} without jungle help. Due to the botlane being so prevelant, the majority of junglers will ignore toplane which leaves Akali as TOO STRONG and thereby UNHEALTHY.
> [{quoted}](name=MuffledGarbage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A0d4dq63,comment-id=001a0000,timestamp=2018-01-17T22:38:06.871+0000) > > Mmhmm... and Akali is able to be countered... how? > > Assuming you say "Play X champion to beat Akali top otherwise you lose" then that proves that Akali is unhealthy. > > If Akali is impossible to beat for the majority of toplaners in the "weak earlygame" then that makes her one "weak" part of the game non-existent and therefore makes Akali overpowered > > If Akali is "weak" past the 35+ minute mark then why does her kit allow her to be an effective lategame diver/disruptor that is IMPOSSIBLE to ignore? > > Akali's kit has no actual counterplay besides "wait for her to do something and out DPS her" which is the defining trait of a stat-check champion. > > Now some stat-check champions such as {{champion:39}}, {{champion:82}}, and {{champion:24}} have been balanced due to specific moves that need to be avoided in order to give them a run for their money. > > {{champion:39}} has her E that MUST be played around/accounted for when fighting against her. This leads to people trading with an Irelia player in an interactive way in order to attempt to bait out her E before the stun is able to be applied. > > {{champion:82}}'s E and Q and two moves that even an immobile juggernaut can play around by keeping track of what {{champion:82}} hits with his Q(in case he's setting up for a flash QEWR combo) and moving away until the Q timer(which is only 1.5 seconds per level) runs out. > > {{champion:24}}'s E and ultimate are what defines and allow his stat-check playstyle to let him run over anyone he wants after a few items. Enemies can bait out the 8 second timer for his ultimate with CC and slows. This leaves {{champion:24}} extremely vulnerable AND without defenses. > > The same thing can be said about Jax's E in regards to how it leaves him vulnerable and how to stop it from being effective. > ----------------------------- > {{champion:84}} is a stat-check champion who has no abilities that can be played around which leaves her with a "strength" that the other stat-checkers don't have. > > Attempt to wait-out Akali's Q? > > It lasts 6 seconds and has a 6 second cooldown which lowers to 5.5 from one level up which allows her to proc her to use a QQ combo for free damage. That combo stops ANY toplaner from retaliating due to the damage threat that Akali is from levels 1-10. > > Use AOE abilities on Akali's W? > > if the majority of toplaners _**HAD**_ AOE abilities, there would be very little complains about Akali's W. > > "Dodge" Akali's E? > > Akali's E is in melee range and as such it's practically un-dodgable for melee champs > > Akali is "weak" to CC? > > What champion in the game isn't weak to CC abilities. Do tell!!! Gangplank's W has an insanely high Cooldown and GP builds 1 CDR item on average at MOST, Alistar's ultimate is an ultimate ability which makes it BALANCED that he can skip out on taking one form of CC. > > Akali is a stat-check and as such, she is too strong at the moment due to the amount of champions that beat her being in a different lane than what her weaknesses apply to. > > A {{champion:164}} is un-able to win a laning phase against a half-wit {{champion:84}} without jungle help. > > Due to the botlane being so prevelant, the majority of junglers will ignore toplane which leaves Akali as TOO STRONG and thereby UNHEALTHY. Pantheon / Kennen / Jayce / Gragas / Quinn / Fiora /Teemo shit on Akali big time. Any tank that builds Spirit Visage shit's on Akali. Any Juggernaut (Darius, Garen, Illaoi) that builds tanky shits on her. Also tanks / offtanks outscale Akali and are more useful in teamfights. Renekton autowins lane against Akali. You should blame Riot, btw. Akali players did not want all this. We did not want to play top lane. The assassin update (patch 6.22) removed a lot of her damage and burst so that they could make the Shroud unpinkable. That was pure bullshit and that forced Akali to play top since her early game is so weak against poke champions mid. I can understand that her trading pattern is aids against melees top lane but again..blame Riot. They keep preaching about healthy gameplay then they remove the only counter to her Shroud? The balance team is detached from reality. They should never have let RicklessAbandon meddle with Akali's kit. She was due to a full VGU anyway...why change her?
: > [{quoted}](name=WhenHeComes,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A0d4dq63,comment-id=002a0000,timestamp=2018-01-17T18:15:32.159+0000) > > How about taking the fact into consideration that NOBODY besides TF Blade can make Akali work in high elo (master+). > > So either only TF Blade chooses to play Akali and nobody else is interested in freelo OR Akali is pretty hard to play in higher elos which means high skill cap. Considering his winrate on Akali is way higher than all his other champs and that he got to rank 1, then TF Blade must be the best Akali player to ever live. I wonder how he does it. I guess he's just that much better than everyone else in NA. LCS teams should move to sign him asap if he's really that good.
> [{quoted}](name=DunkinNoobs,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A0d4dq63,comment-id=002a00000000,timestamp=2018-01-17T19:06:11.130+0000) > > Considering his winrate on Akali is way higher than all his other champs and that he got to rank 1, then TF Blade must be the best Akali player to ever live. I wonder how he does it. I guess he's just that much better than everyone else in NA. LCS teams should move to sign him asap if he's really that good. Using that logic every other champion that people use in high challenger must be broken OP. All the tank junglers, all the ADCs...everything is unhealthy. Difference is that all that shit is played daily...Akali is played by ONE person. I don't believe that she is broken. Blade has already received offers to be on teams as far as I know. MLGB is just one group.
: You only need to watch TF Blade for a bit and see his 70% winrate on Akali to know that this champ is nonsense right now.
> [{quoted}](name=DunkinNoobs,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A0d4dq63,comment-id=002a,timestamp=2018-01-17T16:05:16.045+0000) > > You only need to watch TF Blade for a bit and see his 70% winrate on Akali to know that this champ is nonsense right now. How about taking the fact into consideration that NOBODY besides TF Blade can make Akali work in high elo (master+). So either only TF Blade chooses to play Akali and nobody else is interested in freelo OR Akali is pretty hard to play in higher elos which means high skill cap. Boosters don't play her, elo hungry people stay away from Akali.... there is one challenger guy so the champion must be BROKEN. Nice logic.
: Akali is an unhealthy champion.
Extremely disappointing to read such crap about a 2% play rate champion. Nobody plays Akali except for the few onetricks that play her top. Akali right now is not viable mid lane in any elo above plat 5. Every mage for Akali is a losing matchup. She is a champion without ANY utility, ANY cc...nothing. She has 3 jumps and scaless off at around 35 minutes. No teamfighting, nothing. The problem is low elo players who don't know that there are OTHER, NON-MECHANICAL WAYS to counter a champion. You deny Akali early game, she is useless. She gets behind..she is useless. This bitching about a 2% play rate champion while poke champions strut around with 53% win rate is just ridiculous. And by the way the reason she might feel OP right now is because they ruined her during the class update. They nerfed everything in her kit because Shroud is now non pinkable. Believe us that 80% of all Akali players would gladly revert the class update.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 12
Hello Meddler, Can you please look into the adaptive damage of Akali? She should get AP by default since that's her main damage output. If I buy Cloth armor or Doran's Shield because I get so abused early I shouldn't get AD. It takes away even the thought of trying to trade since I go to lane with 0 AP Thank you.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 10
Hello Meddler! A question concerning tanks / offtanks / juggernauts. It seems to me (and lot of players I know) that tanks got even tankier in preseason 8 to the point where they can actually bully some fighters / juggernauts early game. An Ornn walks into lane with over 850 hp. That is quite problematic since the weakness of tanks used to be their early game where they could be set behind. If you take away that then you'll end up with a class that has decent laning, dirt cheap items and godlike scaling. Their win rates are notoriously high since they have been receiving huge buffs for months (Nasus and Cho for example) You seem to be rewarding players with bad mechanics and punishing those that take risks playing brusiers / assassins. Tank items are cheap (2300 gold?) hence tanks are incredibly hard to effectively be set behind since the experience system is different now than it used to be. They are basically free to miss waves, the xp difference is minuscule and gold is less important for them than for any other class. It is also very harmful to the game because people have given up trying to kill tanks in lane which renders top lane a farm lane if a tank is present. That's not engaging in any way. Any idea how to address this issue?

WhenHeComes

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