: CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A SERVER IN AFRICA!!!
There's a Toto reference here somewhere...
: Hey! Thank you for replying! I have always had the confusion between getting the CS or going for the trade, or hence looking for a solo kill. It would be greatly appreciated if you could provide me some tips on how to choose between farm or trade furthermore solo kills. I would say I roam sometimes but not always, since I play Ekko and he has a really good wave clear, I know that it is better for him to roam or get objectives with the jungler, but whenever i finish clearing a wave, the next wave tends to arrive and hence I may lose a wave of CS since my enemy mid laner stays mid to clear and maybe even get turret platings. So another question from me is that when is it best to roam? My farming is not the best but I would say it needs improvement, due to the fact that I do not understand when to trade, I tend to always look for a solo kill without knowing where the enemy jungler is, hence I sometimes lose CS because of that, secondly roaming, I try to roam every time i finish clearing a wave, but the enemy mid laner sometimes tends to just stay and push which makes me lose CS and Platings even worse turrets, so I would love some tips on roaming timings and the choosing between cs and trade. Yes, I die to ganks pretty often, I would say I win my laning most of the time if the enemy jungler does not interfere, but that is just so unlikely :(, and due to that I would also like some warding tips like where to and when to. Thank you for helping me!
Don't be too afraid of losing some cs while roaming. Most of the time the jungler will gladly take a few cs while you make a quick roam bot. A successful gank granting you a kill or assist will benefit both you and your team greatly. Basically if the enemy bot lane is overextending or stuck at their turret with half hp its a good time to swap in the jungler in mid and go oneshot their botlane. If you win lane consistently as long as the enemy jungler doesn't interfere, warding deep is one of your best options. Warding the area next to chickens is a good spot. Keeping track of when the enemy red/blue buffs are spawning can give you a good idea where the jungler's at. Rule of thumb should be never to hard engage until you've spotted the jungler somewhere on the map.
: Can someone help me and tell me why I am not climbing?
> [{quoted}](name=thegodthegod,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oAI0b2oZ,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-10T10:57:08.785+0000) > > I do not understand why I have spent that much time on ranked and I am still demoting and not promoting pass gold two, many of the time I blame my teammate and sometimes I try to carry, but the only thing i get from those are losses. Can someone provide me some tips and please analyse my op.gg and tell me what I could do to get to platinum? Thanks Hello good sir. A few questions. Since you mostly play mid, do you roam a lot? If not, do it. If you can consistently perform well, all you need is one more lane to do well, as Ekko or Vladimir a tower dive followed by dragon should increase your winrate. How is your farming? I'd say if you would get 200+ farm in 25 minutes you would probably be above average, farm those birds as well. Do you die to ganks? If so, ward deeper, don't make aggressive moves until you spot the enemy jungler. I promise you, if you can consistently get farm, make at least one successful gank per game without dying to a gank from the enemy jungler, you will climb. Btw, good of you asking for help!
: Learn to adapt! That it! Mobility would always exist and yeah it’s more fun! I always enjoy hopping around as kha or j4 why no? You want the game to not have mobility when you have alistar Braun and thresh ? If you remove mobility nobody would be able to be on the back line so the ADC would just dominate the map! That why mobility was created to reach the back line faster! And even with all that mobility you still some times it’s hard! Unless if you are enjoy being kitted to death by vayne and thresh solo carry the game cause there no zed or kha or talon or any mobility champion to reach back line you only have meat shields like trundle you say ! See how the game just become boring and sad? So tell me again how mobility is bad!! Please tell me
I am not arguing that mobility should be removed or that it is bad for the game. This is a response for Blaustoise twitter, where he says mobility is more fun and that is why they are played more. In response i argue that mobility doesn't automatically mean fun. The reason they are played more often is because they have more options during the laning phase, objective control, ganks, roams and team fights. Players will try to find champions that can help them win games easier, out of all champions, those with mobility are often a better option unless they are currently underpowered. A champion with a little to no mobility can certainly be a lot of fun if you can perform well on that champion. Compare old Nunu to the reworked Nunu. The old Nunu wasn't nearly as strong, his ganks were meh but he had a good clear. The new Nunu is way more fun to play because he got more tools to use for ganks and team fights. If an immobile champion got enough tools that they can consistently perform well they would be a lot more popular. My point is, mobility is not the sole reason a champion is fun to play but it removes a lot of frustration that currently only immobile champions suffer from.
: It honestly appals me that Riot has created this extraordinarily toxic game state and is now sat here making jokes about it. There are so many infuriating things in League of Legends that Riot themselves could directly attempt to fix but don't even try at all: - Autofill is definitely an improvement over the previous 'pick order' system, but it by no means perfect. Putting 3 autofills on one team and 0 on the other isn't fair. Putting an autofilled player against someone who's played thousands of games in that role is not fair. Losing your 'autofill protection' status because you've played 2 games in your offrole also isn't fair. - New champions being eligible in ranked is also a cause of extreme tension. Sure, this individual may have played hundreds of games as this new champion on the PBE, however, most people don't have a PBE account and in turn have no idea how to play against this new champion. This is turn leads to one team getting frustrated over this mechanic. Either the team with the new champion gets frustrated watching this individual play a champion they have no idea how to use, or the enemy team gets barrelled over, as they don't properly understand how this new champion works. At least if they spend a few days only available in normals, it's on me if I don't know what this new champion does. - A decline in champion design - Don't get me wrong, new champions are hella fun to play, but that only tells one side of the story. A good champion shouldn't be obnoxious to play against. 1 person shouldn't get their enjoyment at the extent of everyone else's happiness. - No compensation for losing a game with afk's or trolls - It honestly baffles me how you can have an afk on your team for 30 minutes of the game and the game does nothing to offer any sort of compensation for this. No reduced LP loss, no loss prevented, nothing. There is so much Riot could do to make the game feel more enjoyable to play, but I guess making fun of people is better I guess.
> [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FpzGTrO4,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-07T12:41:00.790+0000) > > It honestly appals me that Riot has created this extraordinarily toxic game state and is now sat here making jokes about it. There are so many infuriating things in League of Legends that Riot themselves could directly attempt to fix but don't even try at all: > > - Autofill is definitely an improvement over the previous 'pick order' system, but it by no means perfect. Putting 3 autofills on one team and 0 on the other isn't fair. Putting an autofilled player against someone who's played thousands of games in that role is not fair. Losing your 'autofill protection' status because you've played 2 games in your offrole also isn't fair. > > - New champions being eligible in ranked is also a cause of extreme tension. Sure, this individual may have played hundreds of games as this new champion on the PBE, however, most people don't have a PBE account and in turn have no idea how to play against this new champion. This is turn leads to one team getting frustrated over this mechanic. Either the team with the new champion gets frustrated watching this individual play a champion they have no idea how to use, or the enemy team gets barrelled over, as they don't properly understand how this new champion works. At least if they spend a few days only available in normals, it's on me if I don't know what this new champion does. > > - A decline in champion design - Don't get me wrong, new champions are hella fun to play, but that only tells one side of the story. A good champion shouldn't be obnoxious to play against. 1 person shouldn't get their enjoyment at the extent of everyone else's happiness. > > - No compensation for losing a game with afk's or trolls - It honestly baffles me how you can have an afk on your team for 30 minutes of the game and the game does nothing to offer any sort of compensation for this. No reduced LP loss, no loss prevented, nothing. > > There is so much Riot could do to make the game feel more enjoyable to play, but I guess making fun of people is better I guess. It's not often i take Riots side in stuff like this, but in this case i do defend them. I've played this game for 10 years now and over the years they have done a lot of things to try and counter the toxic players. This is a competitive game where people care and are forced to play with other players, no matter what riot does is gonna get the toxic players away. If you do find out in champ select that 3 players on the same team got autofilled, i am sure you could make it work with team work. Most of the time i believe players are using it as an excuse because they had a bad game. It is very unlikely though to get the scenario where 3 players on one team only are autofilled so i cannot see this as a real issue to toxicity. People are playing new champions in ranked every day, not just newly released ones, a player is gonna perform well if he can adapt quickly, and from my experience new champions are banned most of the time the first week anyway. Even if they would put in a 2 week ban on new champions in ranked i highly doubt toxicity levels would drop. A lot of X champions are annoying to face as Y champion. Blitzcrank is annoying for say Jinx, but as Ezreal he is no problem. Put a morgana support against Blitzcrank and suddenly the fun is gone for Blitzcrank instead of the ADC. No champion has only good match ups, if they do, they won't for long. Some champions are great in lane but fall off late game. A champions ability to shine relies heavily on what champions you are facing. Do you know what would happen if you actually got compensated for someone leaving the game? Players would do their best to force someone to quit, say the most terrible things to make them want to leave the game. What baffles me is why players are already being this toxic to other players, i've seen it a lot of times, someone does badly, they get tilted, players on the team join in and more or less forces to player to leave the game. IF you actually got loss prevented for doing what players are already doing, it would only increase the toxicity. Riot has done a lot. The report system is pretty good, a lot of my reports resulted in a ban or restriction. Getting honor is also required to play on the PBE, they've given rewards for good behavior, punished bad behaviour. It's a tricky issue that can't be fixed easily and will probably never get fixed in any game. The problem isn't the game, it's our ability to not give up or to accept the fact that sometimes the enemy team just played better. Don't get me wrong, i do believe you believe all this would solve the problems of toxicity, and i agree, they would solve it for YOU but not for most other players.
Rioter Comments
SirPurrr (NA)
: If Nocturne can't ult minions, why can he fear them?
Use the "target champion only" setting and you'll never fear a minion again...
Rioter Comments
: Wukong and the jungle
You forgot about support Wukong. Decoy blocks all hooks and bindings. Decoy let's you E, AA, Q, proc thunderlords and still escaped more or less unscaved. You can zone the enemy ADC by running and pressing "s", they will always fear you jumping them. Has good roams with ult, is good in teamfights and deals okay damage during laning phase. If you're silver, main Wukong and get auto-filled, try it! It's fun.
MrHaZeYo (NA)
: So we all agree, remove Edge of Night?
: Adc have always been the follow up role. Usually they don't create plays they capitalize on them.
True. However, you used to not get one shot by half the champions in the game :)
: Idk who supports you guys but I got from p3 to d3 with support only and I have to say ADC is still a very important role. I agree jhin and varus are just plainly retarded, but you can pick someone like draven and carry with a normal support. Draven has ridiculous dmg.
Im not saying its impossible to carry as Draven. It used to be difficult and now its even more so. I used to be able to E someone and stop them long enough to get a kill. With EoN being so dominant, it is not longer as reliable. Basic attacking is not as huge and is really only good if your team is already ahead, if behind, having an MF, Varus or Jhin would be better in most cases, it is atleast a lot more reliable and easy. Which is also my original point, i used to be able to bring my team back from a disadvantage, but nowadays if my team is behind, i have to either stand so far back i cant basic attack, or stay in AA range and hope to God no lethality assassin is close by.
Rioter Comments
: The Struggle of an ADC Main in Silver Elo
Adcs currently have no way of helping his team out before taking down the turret, while other lanes can roam, tp or counterjungle. The Adc has to stay bot. This unfortunately leaves the early game in your teams hands. There is a solution though, if say you're playing caitlyn who is excellent att pushing, you could try to take down the turret early, if you get a gank tell the jungler to help you with The turret. Rotate mid and start pushing there, This will give your team more gold and map pressure, and gives your team less time to feed, giving you a better chance to win. Or play an aggressive adc, crush The enemy, get fed and take the tower early, repeat earlier steps.
: I sure love watching lcs, showcases the VARIETY of great champs
The reason why this will always be the case is the lack of unique strong niche abilities. There are too many champions that does the same thing and what it comes down to is numbers not abilities. Dota has more unique abilities that has a bigger impact, makes for more diversity and better matches to watch imo. Most new champions and reworks in lol has abilities with somewhat low impact so numbers take over. Also since league lacks hard counters you are free to pick anything with good numbers in LCS, if hard counters would exist, like a B-tier champion would be good because it hard counters this S-tier champion we would also see more diversity. Instead of league being rock paper scissors, it is rock crushes everything, paper can sometimes cover something and scissors cuts nothing. Bottom line is, League is a great game that also caters to casuals, the price to pay for that is lack of diversity.
: If Riot Rereleases Championship Riven, I Am Completely Done With Respecting This Company
I feel ya bro, i was just as pissed when they released striker ezreal again, after promising to not ever release them again. Congrats on getting that boarder in the loading screen, feels super good to own the skin.
13enito (NA)
: Survey to Determine how players are using Dynamic Queue-Results to follow
Arakadia (NA)
: Are they actually deleted on redit? by who?
They have a policy that you may not be negative, rant or say anything that might be offensive about anything on the league reddit. So any thread about DQ no matter how constructive is seen as negative/rant by the mods, so they delete them, every single one.
Rioter Comments
: Too many smurfs
I haven't played a game on my main account for months, barely play anymore, but when i do i smurf, sry. Its just that i cannot stand waiting so long to find a game, only to get bad match making. On a smurf i can instantly (almost) get a game, boost friends and just have fun, yes fun, not tryhard. Dynamic queue changed the game from competitive to fun, which is great for some, but anyone who mostly want to climb don't care about having fun or playing with friends as much. #leaguewillneverbethesame
Illazuel (EUW)
: Dynamic Queue and why it is bad.
Rioter Comments
A Ocean (EUW)
: Since Dynamic Queue exists, I actually can't play with my friends anymore.
I'm currently leveling up a new account, to be able to play with friends, as i don't care much about ranked anymore. Have played roughly 20 games ranked so far this season. Can't stand DQ in diamond, might as well boost my friends and just have fun.
MrWasjig (EUW)
: A fresh take on the "Fuck Dynamic Q" agenda. (licks ice cream) Urrgh, takes like...lies..._bleck_. Have an upvote regardless Sir! https://media.giphy.com/media/6Ppn6rE37j248/giphy.gif
Win1Ocent (EUW)
: Riot Ice cream, the most successful ice cream shop in the world.
I can't stand waiting for this delicious old ice cream.
CoTheSlow (OCE)
: All this made me do was think of League characters as ice cream {{champion:143}} - Vine Lasher Liquorice {{champion:222}} - Pop Rocks and rainbow swirl {{champion:117}} - It tastes Purple {{champion:99}} {{champion:134}} - The DeLux Triple Scoop .... now I feel we need ice cream skins curse you!
: Riot Ice Cream shop has many other brands! Some for those who prefer smaller icecream, others who don't mind any flavor they get, and now a weekly rotating ice cream flavor! But they shut down that one not so Dominating flavor, for it was too different and took too much maintenance to keep producing.
Jacknife (NA)
: I never understood why they had to combine the two kinds of ice cream, I mean it's not like they were mutually exclusive. You could have one, and on rare days where your friends weren't busy you could have the other. It get's tough to... keep your taste buds accustomed to ice cream when the experience is dulled down by other people, and you become less of an ice cream enthusiast when you can just have your friends... finish what ice cream you couldn't eat. (Ice cream metaphors are hard...)
Win1Ocent (EUW)
: Riot Ice cream, the most successful ice cream shop in the world.
FDC 4 (NA)
: It took me so long to realize what you were talking about, oh my god xD
Rioter Comments
Rexxa (NA)
: Dynamic queue is the worst thing Riot has ever forced on its playerbase.
I hate that riot is trying to make way for the future. "We need to make this game suitable for the new generation, so it can grow into an olympic sport 5-10 years from now, we need to make sacrifices, so screw everyone who's made our game a success the past 6-7 years, we aim for the FUTURE" - Riot 2016. This is how i feel as a veteran player. What was even the point of DQ? The game was already great, just build upon the success, we never needed DQ. As far as i know, a lot of casuals were perfectly happy with team builder, they don't need the competitiveness from ranked. Those who wanted competition, went duoQ or team ranked and everyone was happy. What is Riot gonna do when streamers gets too sick of the queue times, can't stand the premades and just stops to stream, they lose sooooo much free publicity. But Riot is like, who cares if we lose the high elo players, they are the 0.01%, we want the other 99.9%. So 5-10 years from now, congratulations Riot, you are now Blizzard, your game is world of warcraft, nobody takes it seriously, nobody is concidering it an e-sport and only casuals playing normal games, aram and urf are left playing your game. Was it worth it? I sure hope so.
: Come on guys, Dynamic queue really is better
: You don't get it. "i NEVER want to play support UNLESS my main role is taken" So if they find a game where your main role is taken, they put you as Support. Guess what happened each and every time you are placed in the Supp role? Your main role was taken. Congratulations, you play an extremely popular main role. It's taken a lot. If it makes you feel any better, there is no one guy who is taking your main role 100% and cackling.
Alright, i'll give this one more go. If you don't understand what i'm trying to get across you never will. Let's assume adc (my main role) is worth 10 points, support my second role is worth 5 points and jungle is worth 1 point. I must choose 2 roles, but whenever i choose support i will get it every time. So let's compare how many total points i would get in previous seasons compared to season 6. Before i could get adc probably about 60% of the time and get support atleast 30% of the time whenever someone else wanted adc and 10% of something else. Across 10 games, a total of 76 points. In this seasons i get adc roughly 50% of the time and my secondary role (which is not the support role) 50% of the time, a total of 55 points. Or if i queue up with support as my secondary i would get a total of 50 points. Ofcourse i understand that whenever i get placed in the support role someone else got my prefered role, but it is different in season 6, it is now set in stone, before i had the option to go support when i did not get my main role, i wasn't doomed from the start of champion select with a label on my face saying support. And unless you don't know, and the whole reason why this is a problem, you DO get support everytime you queue up with support selected anywhere. And it doesn't matter what role i put as my primary role, i will get support every time. To be extra crystal clear, when i say "i NEVER want to play support UNLESS my main role i taken" i was talking about how champion select would work out for me in previous seasons and why i no longer play support in this season, because it is impossible for me. The points system presented earlier could represent elo gain, where i win the most as adc, win a lot but slightly less as support and goes about 50/50 with other roles. To increase my overall elo gain it is better for me to exclude support all together and focus on adc and to get better at jungling. And this IS a problem for the game as a whole, i am not the only one who excludes the support role, and the more people doing it the longer the wait times get.
: It doesn't really ccreate a shortage. When you want to play supp, put it in there as a secondary. When you don't, then don't. The most logical choice would to have your primary and secondary be positions that (in the match that the game is searching for) you don't really mind either, but prefer the first.
> [{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TsLE32Xs,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-20T05:28:13.672+0000) > > It doesn't really ccreate a shortage. When you want to play supp, put it in there as a secondary. When you don't, then don't. The most logical choice would to have your primary and secondary be positions that (in the match that the game is searching for) you don't really mind either, but prefer the first. Man, you don't get it, i only want to play support if i don't get my main role. I want to play my main role every game, so i always queue up for it and therefor i cannot queue up as support which would in previous seasons be my second choice if someone else had already picked my main role. So just to be extra clear, i NEVER want to play support UNLESS my main role is taken. You got to see how that is impossible at this moment.
: "The problem is those of us who had support as our fall back role in previous seasons. " Not at all. When you don't wanna supp, you pick another role.
> [{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TsLE32Xs,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-04-20T02:32:27.468+0000) > > "The problem is those of us who had support as our fall back role in previous seasons. " > > Not at all. When you don't wanna supp, you pick another role. Exactly my point. Support is my secondary role, my role i would prefer if i did not get my main role. In any game i would much rather play my main role rather than support, but in case i don't get my main i would like to support. That is now impossible, because any game i queue up as support i will get it, i have no chance to get my main role while having support selected. This is a problem, because i'm not the only one, the only solution for us to get our main role is to queue up as another role secondary. When more and more players who has support as their second favored role notice that they only get support, we quickly realize that we need to swap out support for something else in order to get our main. This creates an even larger shortage of supports and the only ones left to queue up as supports are the support mains.
: I was a support main before S6 started...
The problem is those of us who had support as our fall back role in previous seasons. Like when someone else got adc i could always go support. Having support as your fall back role now is impossible because it quickly turns into your primary role. But yeah, for support mains the system should work fine.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Unvictus (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Win1Ocent,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uEnpEa2z,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-03-17T04:32:24.554+0000) > > Riot said on twitter they will open up solo queue at the end of april. Could you provide a link? There are a lot of other threads in the boards about wanting solo queue and nobody seems to know when it's coming if it's coming. So if a rioter really did say that I would like to see it. Thanks :)
Sure, here you go. https://twitter.com/RiotSupport/status/704710112846348288
Unvictus (NA)
: I'm boycotting ranked until we the solo que we were PROMISED
Riot said on twitter they will open up solo queue at the end of april.
: The road from Gold I to Plat V
I'm giving you a lot of cred for acknowledging that you can improve and don't jump to the conclusion that everyone else sucks! So +1! Having had the time to have fun in this game, i've taken on some challenges over the years, i've done some unranked to diamond accounts playing only one champion, like Blitzcrank, Sejuani, Draven and support Wukong. The best tip i can give you would be to have strategies for each game. Start by looking over your champion pool and pick one champion, figure out something you can do in game that would be unexpected. Most players play like everyone else does, think outside the box and abuse it. I'm currently juggling between a super movement speed build for Draven and an early game invade strategy for jungle Trundle. When i played support, i started roaming as soon as possible, bought mobility boots as my first item. The faster i can get all of my lanes ahead, the more turrets, dragons and gold we'll get. I think your champion pool is fine, you could play Soraka, Nautilus and Morgana all the way to diamond, but if you're gonna play supportive champions, you need to help your lanes more than with other champions, that means more roaming etc. As long as your team is strong, you'll win. I'm happy to see such a mature post!
: If its not a weighted history, then why on my first promos ever did I get placed into silver 2, and in my recent promos where I went 7/3 i was placed bronze5. I know plenty of players that did worse in their promos and were place higher. It has to be related to mmr in some fashion. I have no clue what mmr does. I know it matches games, and I know the games feel completely random. And by that I don't mean the game itself, I mean what player know and do not know. Some know about objectives and wave control, warding, map awareness, so on- some seem absolutely completely clueless. It does not kill all excuses either. I have 5 excuses in every game, me, and the four other people in my game that guide the game to its resolution. I only control me. My mmr will reflect the 5 of us... thats not going to be accurate; and its going to just feel plain bad. I realize they have whole teams, and I realize I do not by any means know all of the angles. However, that does not mean I can't observe flaws in the system. Especially since, in this case its right after a huge change in the matchmaking system. You can now choose your lanes- thats changes matchmaking in such a huge way, huge... I don't think that the mmr accounts for it. At the very least, its certainly no fun losing games because of my teammates and not being able to do anything about it. Or at the very very least, receiving the same reward as my teammates when I don't play poorly. When I play poorly, and oh do I sometimes- bring it on, I deserve the loss, all good. I get what you are saying, for sure. Though I disagree and think there is a completely better way to matchmake the game. On the other hand, I don't know everything that riot knows and doubt that I could do it any better- well, theres no way I could. I'm not that good of a programmer. Coming up with the idea/concept however is much easier than the actual programming. The point however is that matchmaking just doesn't work and the ladder is a mess. The skill disparity I see in my games is crazy. Maybe this is just a low elo issue, but if it is, it doesn't mean that the system works, it just means that its less obvious that its broken in higher elo. Though I do think a major part of my problem is that i've just played support in an elo where support doesn't get you out of the elo- for far too long. All I've played is adc/support mostly. So now I'm playing top/mid and trying to get myself out. So far its been way easier to win games. Still hard because of teams, for sure, but easier.
I've been thinking, i think the reason why you feel the ladder is a mess is quite simple. You are playing at almost the closest to average rank you can be. At every season start, the MMR of every player gets soft reset to a value closer to 1200. It's still early in the season, and a lot of players haven't found their true MMR yet + everyone who just started to play ranked will be placed where you're at. Early in the season a lot of bronze 2 - gold 1 will be placed around each other, a lot of gold 3-plat 1 will be placed around each other, and all plat 3-d5 will be placed around each other and all the d5-challenger will be placed around each other. Naturally though, most of those gold players who are suddenly in silver 4 will quickly rise back to gold, but not everyone starts playing ranked right away, some want to wait for the better players to rise. So right now when you enter a game, you could have a bronze 1 guy from last season against a gold 2 guy from last season, the bronze guy is obviously gonna have a rougher time. This might seem unfair, but it is a necessary evil. The more time that passes though, the more even the games get, at the end of the season you are battling with and against players who has 500+ ranked games played, they have all found their true elo. I'm still against your argument that you find it unfair that some players has less knowledge than others, as knowledge is not the only thing in this game that matters. You can climb in this game solely by mechanics, solely by knowledge or both. And trust me, there are plenty of things you do or do not do in your games that other players are suprised you do not know. Everything you know as of this point is obvious to you, you might know when to back off, but some players do not, but those same players may know something you don't, doesn't make them worse. And if they are that much worse, they will quickly drop and you'll never play with or against them again. The beauty of MMR, it gets rid of everyone that's bothering you.
: I'm after evenly matched games. If mmr gets us there, ok. I realize its a super complicated thing, attempting to match up players- but overall I don't think the mmr approach is how to do it. Mmr is broken, because other people on your team influence your mmr. Your mmr isn't a representation of you, its a representation of you with these 4 people, then the next 4 people and so on and so on. If you go to make a play and you expect your ally to do certain things and they don't, then you die, they effected your mmr. It just can't actually be accurate. By my idea for lp, you would get bonus lp for wins in a row, and it would scale. So for instance if you win one, your next game you get bonus +2lp if you win, then 4, then 8, then 16... not exact numbers, but you get the idea. Some sort of additional lp scaling. This means you would have the same effect, but the system wouldn't be trying to figure out how good you are. It would just judge your performance and naturally ramp you up. Eventually you would skip tiers and the sky is the limit... in theory. lol What I'm getting at is that games are lopsided and there is a problem. Maybe mmr isn't the problem, I think its part of it, but if you do not thats fine. It could also just be the snowbally nature of the game right now. I don't understand the inside and outs of the system. I just think its an added layer of complexity that isn't needed, and there is a better way.
Like i said before, no matter what the system, players would still be roughly where they are placed now. No system would make the games more even. Games are lopsided sometimes i agree, but it's not because of the MMR. You've talked a bit about players making bad decisions, but one thing you need to understand about solo queue is that players will never have the same decision making skills. There are literally hundreds of different decisions to be made each game, you could potentially figure out 50 decisions in one game, what are the odds that someone else on your team had those exact decisions in mind as well? Every decision could work, and players most of the time think that they are right and has the best decision no matter what. A classic example is, we just killed 4 of them, what now, baron or push? In solo queue it's common to see a team split up in two, and both parties think the other party has really bad decision making, even though both options are viable. Same thing could be said about a different scenario, you are a support and you hook someone and you think it's a great play because you have a team mate with you, however he doesn't follow up on that play, now maybe, he noticed an incoming jungler right as you jumped in, maybe he had no mana left, maybe he wanted to recall to get his items and to keep a lane frozen. Just because you think a play is great doesn't mean everyone else thinks it's great. Earlier you said that if someone has a rough matchup and gets warned about it, and still dies he doesn't belong in that ELO. That is just not true, there are sooooo many top lanes who after getting a kill and hitting level 6, could easily towerdive you, they could freeze the lane on you and force you to not get a single CS for like 5-10 minutes, you have to do something to counter it. I used to be a Wukong main, i could beat most matchups, but not Darius, never ever Darius. He would outtrade me, so i would try to avoid it, try my best not to die which after level 6 is hard. I wouldn't blame anyone for losing that matchup as wukong becuase i know how hard it is not to die to a Darius. I noticed that you started playing some top lane now, good for you mate. I think you'll notice that it's not always so easy not to die. The only way to improve in this game is to ignore everyone elses mistakes and focus on your own.
: Yeah, I get the concepts, even if I don't really know the literal calculations. But you don't get matched against players truly in your division. Its matched mmr wise, but its not actually matching elo. Otherwise teams would exactly match up as far as divisions and tiers are concerned. My idea would be a rather punishing system I guess- though my main point is that I would like an accurate system. Also keep in mind that I don't see all of the angles, I have no idea what is actually going on under the hood. I realize this, but I can see the results. You're exactly right about that there would still be ragers and feeders and so on. Of course there would, and that is something we can't fix. Or at least you don't design a system around the edge cases, you design it around the design of the game. I'm not looking to get rid of feeders and afks, I'm looking to get an accurate ranking system. Everyone doesn't have to have a great game, I also think thats unrealistic, but the matches, in theory, would be closer. I'm simply looking for closer, better games. I'm sure you haven't been in silver or bronze for a long time. And I know, I know, you just climb right out. Thats what happens when you're diamond, you are so far above the other players in skill that you just can solo carry. Thats fine, but whats not fine is when you're held back because you're not 3 divisions better than the other players on your team. Also playing wukong support, thats fine, but you know why you're doing it. You got stuck in support and you want to carry, you know your team will not and its up to you. So you go non-meta because you can get away with it. You also get away with it because people aren't used to it, they play stupid and die to the kill lane and now you're snowballing. Its a trap and you know dummies will fall for it. Why? Because you don't belong playing those players, you clearly know more than them and are better than them. In regards to counters, for sure there are hard lanes, lanes that you literally if they play correctly, can't win. A better player will know this and wait for the jungle, a worse player will feed because they don't know better. If everyone knows and warns them about the matchup but they still feed... I would say they weren't matched correctly into the game. If you do one trade and lose it hard and the enemy has more sustain... you shouldn't trade anymore. Simple. If I'm in games with people where they keep trading and die, we're not well matched up because they clearly don't even understand the basics. Oh ganks OR objectives, sorry I didn't notice. For sure. And absolutely, where I'm at in elo people don't know how to control the lanes, muchless ward up to take turrets or when to setup dives and so on. When they're fed they just complain about other people feeding and don't take their lead to other lanes, or even down their lane. Its a nightmare. I guess thats why I'm making the suggestion to judge people on performance as well with some sort of elo modifier based on performance. Then even in the frustrating games, at least you would have potential to negate the negative lp you will receive. I'm a support main, maybe I should do your wukong method. Though I would get raged at for sure, lol. Thats my whole point though, if I play support well but still lose games and have to resort to wukong bot in order to carry- isn't something wrong? Or should I just do whatever I have to do to win, take kills as support and try to carry with non-support champs? Is that a viable solution or does that just make the game less fun for my team? Not that I care, but people play worse when they're raging about a weird pick, and they play bad enough as it is. I mean, for sure I have bad games, but its getting to be very rare that I make mistakes and have those games. I did however do some research and found that in my last 50 games, most of them support, every game where I had a kda of 3 or more I won. So, thats my new goal, do what I'm doing and make sure I'm giving my team 3 kills for every death I have. Its not easy, but I pretty much literally win every game where I can accomplish that. Assuming of course I'm doing other things right, such as roaming, warding, taking objectives, setting up objectives and so on. All of your points are great. For sure I just need to figure out how to win, which is why I reviewed my last 50 games. My main issue again however is that I feel as though I'm not matched up with people of equal skill and I feel like the system should judge with a little bit more individual player judgement. Otherwise my ranking is completely based on who is matched with me- which in theory should work, but judging from results its clearly not. I suppose most of this could be blamed on people that do not play often, the weekend warriors. So their mmr is way higher than it should be. The first time I played ranked promos I was placed silver 2, and I was not in any way shape or form silver 2. Which I think is another backfire of mmr, this season I know i'm way better than my first promos, and I went 7/3, hard carried games as well, and I got bronze 5. Depressing. I know its because of my mmr- and I know I'm way better than bronze 5 because i went and climbed right back to silver 5 easy. However, I did get super lucky with the matchups in my games- like, super lucky. Shrug. Just the fact that I feel like I was super lucky I think is a sign that something is askew. Again man, GREAT comments, I feel like you know way more than I do about the system. I just don't have the faith in it, but if I was diamond wrecking people in silver I think I would feel like it was working fine as well. I really appreciate you taking the time to invest what you think into the post.
I'm not sure i understand exactly what you're after anymore :P When i create a new account i usually get insane win rates early on, my MMR/ELO skyrockets, but the LP system can't keep up. Last season on one of my smurfs when i was gold 1 i was matched against and with plat 1 and diamond 5 players because of my MMR skyrocketing. The system recognizes that i should be higher up and matches me with better players and rewards me 35+ LP per win and i get to skip every other division to climb even faster. Now if i understand you correctly, would you say it would be more fair for me to face off against gold 1 players just because my current division is gold 1? Or you would say it's unfair for the team that gets me (a gold 1) on their team instead of a plat 1 or diamond 5?
: You make a lot of good points, but I still have some counters. The first one is we're assuming that mmr works. If I thought mmr was working as intended, I wouldn't think the system was broken. If mmr was successful, especially now that people are choosing their roles, games should be closer than ever. They just simply aren't. Its not that I don't understand mmr or what its purpose is- I just don't think its working well. I also think its not needed to judge players by a history vs per game. We have the ladder for a reason, simply match people to their division and tier. If it needs to be more accurate, match within 10 lp or something. For instance if you have a bronze 3 at 40lp, the enemy team has a bronze 3 from 35lp to 45lp. Simple. If there is no match, widen the range in increments until you hit a match. What you don't do is say we have a 50mmr, 10mmr, 10mmr, 10mmr, 10mmr vs 20mmr, 20mmr, 20mmr, 20mmr, 10mmr. Both are 90 combined mmr, but its likely the later team will win. Its not the best example, but you get the idea. An eggs in one basket scenario. It would be far better to have a plat3 vs a plat3 than a weird combination of things that equal out the mmr. PLUS, now that roles are chosen, you can even match the lanes so that matching lp goes against one another in lane. In theory. If someone has the mmr of silver 4 and is in gold 5, he should be playing gold 5s. It doesn't make sense to have a ladder system where you're not playing people in your ladder. You should not get to gold 5 and still be playing against silver anything. Silver 1s should play silver1s, and the best of those goto gold 5, gold 5s play gold 5s and so on. If I go 3/1/18 as a support in a game, lose the game, and then just lose 20lp like everyone else... I don't know what mmr is doing. I literally feed 18 kills to my team, and clearly they aren't good enough to do anything with it. If I had fed 18 kills to challenger level players you think I would've lost the game? Extremely doubtful, there are arguments to be made of course, but no good ones, lol. I feel as though mmr is overkill. Just go by lp and match people by lp, with some sort of performance modifiers, per game- not a history like mmr. Perform well and go up, perform badly and go down. Match by lp, not by mmr. Your point kill stealing and so forth is good, and of course I thought of that- I just didn't have a solution and was willing to accept those side effects for better matchmaking. We could resolve that issue by just making a kill worth one lp, a death -2, an assist one... I think would do it. Then there would be no reason to fight over kills vs assists and a good support could easily gain lots of bonus lp as well. Yeah, that makes sense, nice and simple. This would also make deaths carry more weight, which I think is healthy for the game. It would also tone down how much bonus lp could be gained, which I think is also better. To your last point- thats very situational... and actually perhaps the thing not to do. Farm your lane, no, kills are worth less and less so there is no point. Get a strong lead and take your tower. Generally you should help your team, although sometimes its far more effective to pressure/split taking towers. For instance if you are a fed bot lane, ward up and keep pushing your lane and taking objectives. By doing so their team has to send more people to you in order to stop you, and your team that is behind can take their towers. This gives the team global gold and free farm, catching your team up drastically. Wards should allow you to get out if placed well. You can also itemize to escape if you know thats what you'll be doing. By creating pressure that must be responded to on the map you effectively free up your team to take objectives while catching up themselves. If you don't feel safe doing that, ward up their jungle and kill the jungle, then push the lane. Either way you're drawing attention that can't be ignored, which frees up your team to get farm and push lanes. Just like a jungler, sometimes its just not effective to go help a lane if its out of control to the point where you'll just get doubled. I know it seems counter intuitive, but it works. You made a lot of great points and I really appreciate your post. I also added the modification idea that you triggered into the main post.
Before the divisions and tiers were in the game, we only had MMR to go on, back then the system actually was just like you want it to be. You had an ELO number, if your number was 1500 you were gold 5, you were now matched with ONLY gold 5s and you would gain a close to flat amount of ELO each game. The problem with that was that a lot of players were complaining about it, and Riot thought ELO was too punishing of a system and caused ladder anxiety, so they introduced the divisions and tier system, but in reality the divisions and tiers are just a shell to cover your ELO, it is still working in the same way, and it IS working just the way you want it to. Because it's just a shell, you don't get matched with the same division/tier players but you get matched with and against players of the same ELO. Behind that shell there is a counter going +20 and -20 each game, the ELO/MMR to reach gold 5 right now is 1450 i believe, if your ELO is at 1450, you will play with and against gold 5s or silvers with great MMR. The system is fair, you could be a one trick pony, climb to gold 4, now riot olafs that champion, and you have no other champion to fall back on, so you start to main something else. However, you are not nearly as good at that champion, so you start to lose game after game, the system matches you with worse players each up coming game, to see where you can actually start having a 50% win rate which is the goal of the system, to make you win 50% of the time until you get better and can increase that chance to 51+%. What you want is to have a fair fight, where nobody feeds or nobody gets fed. This is simply impossible, no matter what the system. There are too many variables, and sometimes it only takes 1 death in lane and you can never come back. The players you are matched with right now are at the same skill level as you, if you were to remove the MMR, modify the system a bit and just go by LP it would still be exactly the same as it is now, there would still be feeders, there would still be ragers, players overextending, not grouping etc. Someone has a bad game almost every game, rarely does EVERYONE in a game have a great game. No matter what divison you're at, no matter the tier, there is still always a winner and a clear loser in every lane. Sometimes a midlaner made a great roam bot lane, got a double kill and snowballed like crazy, does your midlaner suck now? Well looking at the KDA he sure does, but looking at their skill, not so much. Or, you got counterpicked hard, had a really hard matchup, do you just suck or was it just a rough matchup. With all the counters, different team comps, different lanes and all the decisions you can do in a game, it does not matter what system you have. When i talked about the KDA i said, if you're ahead you need to help your lanes via ganks or objectives. Turrets are objectives and therefor pushing bot lane is helping your team. But if what you're saying is true, that you more often than not win your lane, and you more often than not help your team either via ganks or objectives then you should be winning more than 50%. What i'm talking about is if you're winning your lane but do NOTHING about it, and there are plenty of those players out there. This game is all about figuring out how to win the game, anyone who's ever got to gold usually has no trouble doing it again. I've made it to diamond on severeal accounts, even while playing stupid shit like support wukong only, the system works, you just need to figure out how to win the games.
: Support and Ranked
MMR is the reason why the system works and why we don't need to remove the safety nets. Regardless of what your tier or division is you will be matched with players of similar MMR not division or tier. If someone is stuck in gold 5 but has the mmr of a silver 4, he won't be on your team if your MMR is at a gold 5 level. Silver 5 is full of baddies because it's silver 5, not because their MMR is much worse than silver 5, and if their MMR is that much worse and you get them on your team, then your MMR is just as bad. The LP amount you get per win is solely based on your MMR, if the system recognize that you belong in a higher division it will give you more points to get you up there faster, if it's high enough you'll even skip a whole division. If your MMR is lower than intended for your division though, you'll lose more points than you gain because the system is trying to bring you closer to where you belong. Having your KDA mean something in terms of gaining LP is something that will never happen, it would create chaos, people would KS like crazy and be supermad when getting KS:ed, or when not being allowed an assist. Also, it would hardly be a fair system, carries who go for kills would be favored over tanks and supports. You already get more LP from playing well, if you were to win 10 games in a row, you would be rewarded with more and more LP each win. Just to add a bit to the KDA part, i know it sucks when you feel like you have an awesome game and your team is feeding. However, IF you are that fed, chances are you just stayed in lane for 20-25 minutes and farmed your opponent and completely ignored to help the other lanes. If you are ahead in a game, you need to help your teammates out either via ganks or objectives. Riot knows that KDA doesn't win games, they want to promote teamplay. The dynamic queue messes a bit with the MMR though, if you are a group of premades with wildly different MMR. But you still get matched against a team of as close to equal average MMR as possible. Once solo queue arrives though, it will be normal again, players with the same MMR against players with the same MMR, regardless of how they performed in that game, believe it or not, they are at the same skill level as you are.
: @Meddler, Context on the Shyv nerfs?
Nothing's set in stone, it's PBE and might get reverted, but having played a fair bit of Shyvana myself, she is too good at clearing camps. She could still power farm the jungle even with those changes, still better than most junglers just worse than she could before. It's not too hard to become level 18 while the rest of the players are level 12-15, nor is it hard to hit 6 before solo laners do. Levels are super important, having 3-4 levels on someone is like having an extra giants belt, long sword, half a zeal worth of attackspeed, a cloth armor and more magic resistance. Not to mention your smite gets better so easier to secure/steal baron/dragon. With those benefits in mind, reducing her early clear speed a bit seems fine to me.
: Solo Queue When?
Riot tweeted a few days ago saying solo queue will be released at the end of april.
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Win1Ocent

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