: She can't stun AT ALL, she can root and it passes through minions just like Lux's root and Maokai's root, and it lasts for 1s at level 1 meanwhile Lux's root lasts for 2 seconds at level 1. There are tons more other oppressive supports than her that do a better job without all the hassle, like Brand (His passive DoT plus the explosion will deal more damage than Zyra's plants could ever do), Xerath (He has insane range and insane base damage stats) and Vel'Koz (True damage, AoE knock-up on non-ult ability, slow, huge range). If anything, Zyra needs a desperate buff to her plants' sad state.
> [{quoted}](name=LaughsInTeemo,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=5UGHt25h,comment-id=0012000000020000,timestamp=2018-09-19T19:46:29.553+0000) > > She can't stun AT ALL, she can root and it passes through minions just like Lux's root and Maokai's root, and it lasts for 1s at level 1. > > There are tons more other oppressive supports than her that do a better job without all the hassle, like Brand, Xerath and Vel'Koz. > > If anything, Zyra needs a desperate buff to her plants' sad state. Haha,. no > [{quoted}](name=Pax au Telemanus,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=5UGHt25h,comment-id=004c,timestamp=2018-09-19T18:31:41.473+0000) > > Hi Meddler! Any chance Warwick gets some small buffs. Ever since his nerfs and the jungle changes, playing him is very underwhelming. I swear, this thread is filled with people who only consider their champ fine if 55% winrate
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 19
Guys, guys, janna isn't fkn freelo tier for once, fast buff her. She's doing fine lol, don't buff her, your female player base doesnt have to grow . +thresh buff is obviously for more world ''plays'', he's fine as well
: Unpopular opinion
Actually, mobility usually does have a tradeoff. Its just that riot seems to care less and less. That said, with every champ getting mobility it also matters less
Anin777 (EUW)
: Everyone seems to like these changes but they are problematic. You're buffing tanks as a counter to the increased damage in the game. However, when dmg gets nerfed some time (if ever) in the future, then we'll have unkillable tanks running around. I mean why reduces CDs when Tanks need 2 items to hit 40% CDR? Why not focus on reducing damage in general instead of slapping this venom soaked band-aid that might poison gameplay later on? Jeez.
> [{quoted}](name=Anin777,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P4eh9Or5,comment-id=00eb,timestamp=2018-08-04T10:09:41.091+0000) > > Everyone seems to like these changes but they are problematic. No?^"
: "We're nerfing all of your positions because support is toxic" - Episode #12894
> [{quoted}](name=Giggle Physics,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P4eh9Or5,comment-id=00db,timestamp=2018-08-04T07:36:32.206+0000) > > "We're nerfing all of your positions because support is toxic" - Episode #12894 Ah yes, support never got nerfed cause of other lanes ...oh wait, thats 90% of support nerfs. Like, toplaners always complain, but i could write a book about all the things toplaners ruined for jungle/supp
: You should work on your math dude. The break even for 20 armor with 40% scaling is 100 armor. Which means that your ahead in armor then you would have been if you proc aftershock. And unless your trying to tell me that all ins in bot lane with a Leona last longer then3 seconds. This is a flat buff unless Aftershock is on cooldown.
> And unless your trying to tell me that all ins in bot lane with a Leona last longer then3 seconds. This is a flat buff unless Aftershock is on cooldown. Newsflash, they do nowadays Also, AS usually procs before you are on top of the enemy
: Tank changes for 8.16
HERE'S MY 20 PAGE ESSAY ABOUT HOW TO FIX LEONA revert her Q/E damage Done.. Like, real..q/e were nerfed cause of AS/less def stats, but aftershock got changed/def stats more accessible, no revert gg
: Just one more person who is concerned with the Tahm Kench changes.. His solo Q win rate is abysmal, and your nerf is only directed to professional play. While it's okay to nerf some things for pro play, with this massive cooldown nerf on Devour, he may not be played in LCS _AND _ in solo Q, leaving him excluded from all games. Tahm does nothing to help win the lane, he has little poke and weak engage. His opponents need to walk into him for him to have any utility at all (which only happens when you are losing lane as TK). Another thing you can do is reduce cooldown of Devour when it is used on minions, reduce mana costs when it is used with minions, and reduce or refund mana costs when Devour is used in concert with Tongue Lash. This way, Tahm can have more presence in lane, without only relying on using his Devour tool for defensive _porpoises _ only. I hope you can give TK some additional tools in lane, as you did give to all the other tanks on the list.
> [{quoted}](name=BushidoBlade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P4eh9Or5,comment-id=0084,timestamp=2018-08-03T22:26:16.611+0000) > > Just one more person who is concerned with the Tahm Kench changes.. > > His solo Q win rate is abysmal, and your nerf is only directed to professional play. > > While it's okay to nerf some things for pro play, with this massive cooldown nerf on Devour, he may not be played in LCS _AND _ in solo Q, leaving him excluded from all games. Tahm does nothing to help win the lane, he has little poke and weak engage. His opponents need to walk into him for him to have any utility at all (which only happens when you are losing lane as TK). > > Another thing you can do is reduce cooldown of Devour when it is used on minions, reduce mana costs when it is used with minions, and reduce or refund mana costs when Devour is used in concert with Tongue Lash. This way, Tahm can have more presence in lane, without only relying on using his Devour tool for defensive _porpoises _ only. > > I hope you can give TK some additional tools in lane, as you did give to all the other tanks on the list. I actually think that for solo Q this is pretty decent (for lane that is) where you can play glacial augment into other low-disengage champs and stomp em The problem is that once mid/late comes, where you are basically more of a peel bot, this will make him WAY worse. Also, he's gonna be oppressive toplane now lol
: Tank changes for 8.16
???????????? These leona changes don't make sense. The moment you start putting points in E the damage barely matters, and if you get a bad lanephase now its gonna be hard as hell to get back (even post ult) due to less damage/base defense on W. More armor/mr scaling lategame doesnt matter, she barely builds any+leona usually goes oom if she spams W, riot never knows wtf they doing Also, gj removing TK from the game lol
: About Kai'Sa's V-Neck suit and trying to please everyone
The people complaining about this should go back to their safe spaces. I don't know why riot is giving in to these feminist %%%%s who are just angry no one wants to have sex with them because they look like fat cows irl. Also, warriors tend to be fit. They aren't eating icecream while watching t.v all day
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 2
Hahaha, you gotta be shitting Oh shit, eve is sitting around 49-52% w/l for 1 week, damn, better buff her. I mean, some of my mains got gimped CAUSE OF AFTERSHOCK which offcourse got changed to be even worse on them later on, but eve...not top tier for 1 week? Damn, insta buff Priorities, get them straight. Eve doesn't have to be the goddess of yolo q every fkn time. ps: you somehow nerfing pta/FF but leave comet and sheit alone? Wauw. http://euw.op.gg/champion/evelynn/statistics/jungle 51.5% w/l, better fkn buff her for skin sales
Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: You don't have to rush a T2 gold item. These items are literally the starting point of supports because they don't get farm. Now you won't even have to rush a Sightstone because items like FQC, Medallion and Face will be the new Sightstones once the quest is complete. Which means that you do not have to concern yourself with a pure utility item and can carry on with some other purchases that suit your playstyle. This means that support mages (Like Brand, Lux and Fiddles) won't have to spend 800 gold and delay their crucial power spikes and play from behind. For any "carry" type champion, missing on your window of opportunity is a heavy cost to pay. This is why supports were mostly limited to actual supports and even supports had to opt into more utility items than actual damage items. This decision will ultimately increase bot lane diversity in my opinion.
> [{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=xeAEIL6M,comment-id=00240007000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-11T20:17:17.352+0000) > > You don't have to rush a T2 gold item. > These items are literally the starting point of supports because they don't get farm. > Now you won't even have to rush a Sightstone because items like FQC, Medallion and Face will be the new Sightstones once the quest is complete. Which means that you do not have to concern yourself with a pure utility item and can carry on with some other purchases that suit your playstyle. > > This means that support mages (Like Brand, Lux and Fiddles) won't have to spend 800 gold and delay their crucial power spikes and play from behind. For any "carry" type champion, missing on your window of opportunity is a heavy cost to pay. This is why supports were mostly limited to actual supports and even supports had to opt into more utility items than actual damage items. > > This decision will ultimately increase bot lane diversity in my opinion. No, you do have to rush it, because if your gold gain is lower than the enemy support you delay your stone even more. Which is ironic, since t2 coin/thief are better than t2 targon , which again, fks over tanks. Punishing people that roam is stupid, ''oh, you just got 2 kills? well 2 bad, no wards for you till 15 mins because you aren't afk laning'' Also, brand, really? Guy can build spellthief+5 warmorgs and do damage. Same with fid.
: > [{quoted}](name=Xinyuo,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=xeAEIL6M,comment-id=0101,timestamp=2018-01-11T12:09:56.180+0000) > > These sightstone changes are terrible. I feel riot saw that egirls weren't getting free LP again which lowered skin sales and decided to gimp tank/roam supports again. Thats like a little kid speaking out of you. No offense, but sure I can see why you are angry but in my opinion it's just negative to remove sightstone and I dont think anyone can gain "Free LP" for having passives that are important removed. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
> [{quoted}](name=Tilted Leya,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=xeAEIL6M,comment-id=01010001,timestamp=2018-01-12T09:34:27.830+0000) > > Thats like a little kid speaking out of you. No offense, but sure I can see why you are angry but in my opinion it's just negative to remove sightstone and I dont think anyone can gain "Free LP" for having passives that are important removed. > {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} Could you at least write proper English. At the moment i can't even take your ''little kid'' comment serious. Riot babies these egirl sups (aka the heal/shield bots) whenever they aren't on top, facts are facts. They even talk about ''buffing'' spellthief if lanephase ends early, are you serious? I can get 500 gold on thief before i even got 300 on targon. Punishing roaming is also a huge nerf to leo/ali/bitz etc.
: Jesus Christ. 8 seasons and you still have no clue what the problem is. Sightstone is fine. Mandatory 800g is fine it is the same as mandatory Armsguard for a mid laner against an assassin. #Real issue with supports is that LoL is game about taking objectives and supports CANT TAKE BLOODY OBJECTIVES unlike any other role. So yes, keep doing unimportant changes and then wonder why nobody wants to play support. After 3 years of being support main I am moving to jungle to be able to take down objectives. It is so frustrating for a support after a team fight to see the team recalling or chasing one straggler with 30hp instead of taking down tower with 700hp. And guess what - as a support you can't do sht about it. I believe game team should play the game and the roles they wanna change if you want to do it right.
>Real issue with supports is that LoL is game about taking objectives and supports CANT TAKE BLOODY OBJECTIVES unlike any other role. Yep, thats what i've been saying for years as well lol, its why i play hyper-splitpushers in the jungle on this account, just 1v5 by destroying turrets
: Except that more often than not i end up picking AFTER their support... so... Where is your god now?
> [{quoted}](name=Azure Northwing,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=xeAEIL6M,comment-id=000d0000000100010000000100000000,timestamp=2018-01-11T16:04:03.281+0000) > > Except that more often than not i end up picking AFTER their support... so... > Where is your god now? Personal anecdotes mean a lot /nope. Outside the fact that 3 of the 4 most picked sups are the egirl trio, and only 2-3 in the top 10 winrate are tanks, just because champs are played more doesn't mean they perform better. Also thats a statement you can't back up. But ye, I'm talking to someone who got mad that sona got nerfed
Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: How is Riot making a extra slot available to a support, from a slot efficiency standpoint, taking away "smart thinking" or "adaptability" to a situation? They even save you 800 gold for that. Your comment is literally the reason why people shouldn't speak before they think. You clearly didn't think this through.
> [{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=xeAEIL6M,comment-id=002400070000,timestamp=2018-01-11T15:30:11.899+0000) > > How is Riot making a extra slot available to a support, from a slot efficiency standpoint, taking away "smart thinking" or "adaptability" to a situation? They even save you 800 gold for that. > > Your comment is literally the reason why people shouldn't speak before they think. > You clearly didn't think this through. Because you pretty much have to rush the tier 2 gold item no matter what (and preferably, 1 that nets you tons early like spellthief) because else you won't have sightstone for half the game.
: IDK what game you're playing but... All i keep seeing in my ranked games are {{champion:44}} {{champion:12}} with maybe a occasional {{champion:201}} {{champion:53}} (Built as tank) or {{champion:412}} (Built as tank) Haven't seen a lot of mages (A few Xerath supports who... erm... didn't really know how to play him lel) and not a single Leona cos she's on my permaban list until the next patch Aftershock rebalancing (And may even stay there depending on how those changes shape out)
> [{quoted}](name=Azure Northwing,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=xeAEIL6M,comment-id=000d00000001000100000001,timestamp=2018-01-11T13:49:41.808+0000) > > IDK what game you're playing but... > > All i keep seeing in my ranked games are {{champion:44}} {{champion:12}} with maybe a occasional {{champion:201}} {{champion:53}} (Built as tank) or {{champion:412}} (Built as tank) > > Haven't seen a lot of mages (A few Xerath supports who... erm... didn't really know how to play him lel) and not a single Leona cos she's on my permaban list until the next patch Aftershock rebalancing (And may even stay there depending on how those changes shape out) You'd almost think that soraka 1 tricks face people that can kill soraka.
ItsLowbo (NA)
: Changes to Sightstone/Support Items coming to PBE
These sightstone changes are terrible. I feel riot saw that egirls weren't getting free LP again which lowered skin sales and decided to gimp tank/roam supports again. First you take a dump on tank supports in 8.1 who rely on their kill combo by nerfing their tankiness and increasing the tankiness of squishies who can go resolve secondary (nami/soraka/almost every adc ) and now you punish tank supports for skipping targon tier 2 for mobi boots+s-stone and getting their gold from roaming/ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME rather than collecting coins/thief stacks. They also can't engage in lane w/o vision. Disgusting, honestly. Pretty sure you won't revert leo nerfs either once she gets 2 weak. > we would still like Sightstone times to be a reflection of the support player’s skill Skill, really? How about you make targon more rewarding then past midgame.
: Q does about 20 dmg level 1, you use Q for the aa reset unempowered, not the damage, so your argument about it going back to a proper aa reset is quite diminished by that. Q being AOE is great for jungle, shit for top, it paired with W autopushes the lane every time you trade with an enemy. R is useless in lane now, no longer a combat ability. 2s delay before doing anything means it isnt viable in fights and the stealth is useless for escaping ganks, no fero gain means it's punishing as fuck if you dont hold the champions only key. The rework was made for jungle rengar and topgar was completely forgotten.
> [{quoted}](name=Rianithime,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=TvU51dlV,comment-id=00020000000100000000,timestamp=2017-12-17T12:58:45.224+0000) > > Q does about 20 dmg level 1, you use Q for the aa reset unempowered, not the damage, so your argument about it going back to a proper aa reset is quite diminished by that. > > Q being AOE is great for jungle, shit for top, it paired with W autopushes the lane every time you trade with an enemy. > > R is useless in lane now, no longer a combat ability. 2s delay before doing anything means it isnt viable in fights and the stealth is useless for escaping ganks, no fero gain means it's punishing as fuck if you dont hold the champions only key. > > The rework was made for jungle rengar and topgar was completely forgotten. Pretty sure they just didnt care since rengar top is about half as fun to play vs a teemo, and that says something
Canastus (NA)
: The 7.24b changes weren't enough to push Cassiopeia into a viable state, hopefully she'll see some followup changes on patch 8.1. Otherwise there's no hope for her. She's been unplayable since patch 7.18 already, this 20-25 minute meta is downright unbearable for her. Additional scaling is of no use to her if she's rushing 3 mana-items that give little to no AP in the first place. What she needs is more basedamage and flat mpen. I also could name you at least 25 champs who are still in need of severe nerfs due to having a 53-55% winrate, things are very dire. You *need* to start gutting these champs. https://i.imgur.com/RvIslA0.png
> [{quoted}](name=Canastus,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=TvU51dlV,comment-id=004d,timestamp=2017-12-16T11:03:27.467+0000) > > The 7.24b changes weren't enough to push Cassiopeia into a viable state, hopefully she'll see some followup changes on patch 8.1. Otherwise there's no hope for her. > > She's been unplayable since patch 7.18 already, this 20-25 minute meta is downright unbearable for her. Additional scaling is of no use to her if she's rushing 3 mana-items that give little to no AP in the first place. What she needs is more basedamage and flat mpen. > > I also could name you at least 25 champs who are still in need of severe nerfs due to having a 53-55% winrate, things are very dire. You *need* to start gutting these champs. > > https://i.imgur.com/RvIslA0.png You realize champ gg isn't all that fast with updating winrates.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 15
I just don't understand riots logic Aery users are OP, they nerf aery Aftershock users are OP, they complete gut the champs. This is a shitty way of balancing, because that way you just create a cycle of nerfs and force people into 1 rune (lolvariety). Nami (example) was sitting at a huge pick/winrate before the leo nerfs, now she's gonna be the new 54-55% w/l champ now leo is nerfed, then they nerf her, then the one she held back gets 54%, etc. Blitz is now sitting at the winrate/pickrate leona did before her changes, is he next? Just leave leona alone and nerf lolshock/aery so you don't have to nerf EVERY SINGLE CHAMP using those over the course of the season I know i'm gonna get downvoted because leona stomps low elo. But this is just the truth. Idm if OP champs are weaker, but this biased style of nerfing (riots e-girl love) is only gonna create a nerfspree. 40 base damage ,really? Not even 57% w/l egirls got hit that hard.
CLG ear (NA)
: Tyler1 Championship Series (TCS) - 16 teams competitng
Oh wauw, i didn't really pay attention to the teams before, but now i know why delta fox had such easy matches...all the good players/teams are in group b
Xinyuo (EUW)
: Dear Riot, your adaptive damage system is screwing over support players (and some junglers)
'' Nothing about where it scaled with the old supports better than now.'' You're, so, immensely, stupid, holy, shit. Offensive runes on sups weren't for scaling, they were for early '' Level 3-4, you should be stacked plenty in whatever stat you prefer'' Again, not on supports, so thats bullshit '' You're even claiming melee supports are the ones who have it so bad, as though ranged ones don't get off like 3x as many autoattacks in lane, and therefore scale far better on the AD. Who are you playing support bottom, Gangplank? '' Its not about ''who gets more aa's off'' (not to mention a decent leo gets like 6-7 of during her full rotation), its about optimizing stats. If you can get 60 more damage of during an all in with AD (due 2 more hits/low ratios or long cd's/ aa resets on leo/blitz), and only 24 with ap, you opt for AD, its that fkn simple. Every single melee supp at higher elo (but braum/taric) ran AD (or armor). AP on a melee sup hitting their ''AP-scaling-rotation'' only once every minute isn't really useful. But its ok, stay handicapped, silver for 5 seasons. ps: anyone around here for long knows that accounts got mass-banned on boards early on when NA/EU GD merged+who you shit talking, you never played supp, even less games than this dead account Just stop
Terchio (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Xinyuo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-18T14:20:41.978+0000) > > 1. You're clueless af, AS, hybrid marks, mpen marks, AD marks and armor marks, were all legit good options On supports? Do you know your topic? Supports don't scale the damage high enough to make Pen near as viable, nor AD for AS on them. Stay on topic. > [{quoted}](name=Xinyuo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-18T14:20:41.978+0000) > 2. Just because ''there is an alternative harass path'' doesn mean jack sheit. Chars that do well with AP early get a legit huge advantage, those who did better with AD are cucked because of riots flawed ''not really a choice'' design. Both can get aery, but only 1 of em can get the stat they want Both get a huge benefit regardless of their initial scaling. Aery and Electrocute both have decent AD ratios, so that's not the problem. It is maybe slightly easier to burst with AP champions because... well... AP is friggin' burst. That's the same as AP vs. AD has always been. Anyone has always been able to pack on the AD Marks to poke harass with autoattacks, which is your pointless thread in the first place. Now they make that something you have to build towards, and you feel like you've been cheated out of autoattack damage when you can build moreso in that direction just fine, the only problem is that you can **no longer get both AD and AP** as easily. It's so weird how you have to choose directions to go, now. Either way, though, the harass is there. > [{quoted}](name=Xinyuo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-18T14:20:41.978+0000) > 3. being forced into a non support item is ok? Stop kissing riots ass. I don't kiss Riot's ass. I hate how they removed old Runes. However, you found the one thing they almost did right, given this horrible system. > But ye, another hardstuck. Who somehow manages to play 5 seasons, and still running heal on elise jungle (???????????) while having the worst stats i've, ever seen. And the low blow. At least you put some effort into this one. I'd never say my build was for everyone, but then again, I hate Flash with a passion. It's just about the most pointless skill there is, usually used to save your own neck. Yes, I had a rough going early in the season with it, and I'd never say my KDA was up to par, but that's my playstyle. However, I'd say I've gotten my playstyle back where I want it at 11-4 winrate over the past 15 games, even with Lethal Tempo, which I've now found to be underwhelming in this build, and with Fleet Footwork, which in general is usually underwhelming. Now, adjust yours accordingly. Speaking of, do you even play ranked? Do you even play? What the hell are you even bitching about?
> [{quoted}](name=Terchio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=00070000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-18T22:47:44.632+0000) > > On supports? Do you know your topic? Supports don't scale the damage high enough to make Pen near as viable, nor AD for AS on them. Stay on topic. > > Both get a huge benefit regardless of their initial scaling. Aery and Electrocute both have decent AD ratios, so that's not the problem. It is maybe slightly easier to burst with AP champions because... well... AP is friggin' burst. That's the same as AP vs. AD has always been. > > Anyone has always been able to pack on the AD Marks to poke harass with autoattacks, which is your pointless thread in the first place. Now they make that something you have to build towards, and you feel like you've been cheated out of autoattack damage when you can build moreso in that direction just fine, the only problem is that you can **no longer get both AD and AP** as easily. It's so weird how you have to choose directions to go, now. Either way, though, the harass is there. > > I don't kiss Riot's ass. I hate how they removed old Runes. However, you found the one thing they almost did right, given this horrible system. > > And the low blow. At least you put some effort into this one. I'd never say my build was for everyone, but then again, I hate Flash with a passion. It's just about the most pointless skill there is, usually used to save your own neck. Yes, I had a rough going early in the season with it, and I'd never say my KDA was up to par, but that's my playstyle. However, I'd say I've gotten my playstyle back where I want it at 11-4 winrate over the past 15 games, even with Lethal Tempo, which I've now found to be underwhelming in this build, and with Fleet Footwork, which in general is usually underwhelming. Now, adjust yours accordingly. > > Speaking of, do you even play ranked? Do you even play? What the hell are you even bitching about? 1. Ye, I know my topic as a d2 support main (+80% winrate smurf in high plat) i also spend hours a day on getting the perfect runepage for every support i have, ending up trying over 80+ different pages over a couple of months. But i'm sure a healelise main can tell me how to spec supps (armor did become more common during the coincenser-egirl-meta tho) Also, again, it doesn't matter if you can build towards it, because both people who benefited more from AP and those who benefited from AD use those runes, which means the ones who prefer AD get cucked. ''so weird how you have to choose directions to go'' No, thats the thing, you can't, its ap, ap, or ap, or ap. '' hate Flash with a passion. It's just about the most pointless skill there is,'' Ye, no one is gonna take you serious friend. ''Yes, I had a rough going early in the season with it, and I'd never say my KDA was up to par, but that's my playstyle. However, I'd say I've gotten my playstyle back where I want it at 11-4 winrate over the past 15 games,'' Not up to par? I've seen people playing with a touchpad in high dia doing better. Also winrate in pre season is 0% relevant. Even less if your duo carries you
Terchio (NA)
: Who even said it was viable? OP wants some AD early, there's his AD, and unlike old Runes, not everybody is going to have that source of damage early as far as supports go. AD was basically all that was viable in Marks for supports, save low-power Armor Marks. If OP wants to pretend that AD runes were OP for a good reason, he can get those now, and without it being the opponent's choice as well. However, like I said... >You want that harrass early, you have to grab a keystone balanced around heavy early game power, like Summon Aery or Electrocute. That in no way implies that AD early is viable. Actually, it means Summon Aery and Electrocute are viable harass options on supports, and you haven't been playing if you think that's wrong.
> [{quoted}](name=Terchio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2017-11-18T07:29:56.598+0000) > > Who even said it was viable? OP wants some AD early, there's his AD, and unlike old Runes, not everybody is going to have that source of damage early as far as supports go. AD was basically all that was viable in Marks for supports, save low-power Armor Marks. > > If OP wants to pretend that AD runes were OP for a good reason, he can get those now, and without it being the opponent's choice as well. However, like I said... > > That in no way implies that AD early is viable. Actually, it means Summon Aery and Electrocute are viable harass options on supports, and you haven't been playing if you think that's wrong. Okay 1. You're clueless af, AS, hybrid marks, mpen marks, AD marks and armor marks, were all legit good options 2. Just because ''there is an alternative harass path'' doesn mean jack sheit. Chars that do well with AP early get a legit huge advantage, those who did better with AD are cucked because of riots flawed ''not really a choice'' design. Both can get aery, but only 1 of em can get the stat they want 3. being forced into a non support item is ok? Stop kissing riots ass. But ye, another hardstuck. Who somehow manages to play 5 seasons, and still running heal on elise jungle (???????????) while having the worst stats i've, ever seen.
Terchio (NA)
: If you really want your AD early, grab a longsword, and all your adaptive damage will be AD. Then you can build into AP and once AP overtakes AD, it will "adapt" into the direction. Problem is, no support wants AD in any realistic sense when AP is readily available in equivalent values. Also, adaptive damage is almost jack until level 6 anyway, by the time your AD harass means next to jack in the first place. Overall, supports don't have as much AD harass, but neither does anybody else early on with the lack of early game stats. You want that harrass early, you have to grab a keystone balanced around heavy early game power, like Summon Aery or Electrocute. Because most other builds need to build into their effectiveness, there's been basically no better time to build early game harrass. It's not like any build can throw up AD Marks and harrass right back, you have to build that direction. That *IS* a playstyle now.
> [{quoted}](name=Terchio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-11-17T13:55:54.901+0000) > > If you really want your AD early, grab a longsword, and all your adaptive damage will be AD. Then you can build into AP and once AP overtakes AD, it will "adapt" into the direction. Problem is, no support wants AD in any realistic sense when AP is readily available in equivalent values. Also, adaptive damage is almost jack until level 6 anyway, by the time your AD harass means next to jack in the first place. > > Overall, supports don't have as much AD harass, but neither does anybody else early on with the lack of early game stats. You want that harrass early, you have to grab a keystone balanced around heavy early game power, like Summon Aery or Electrocute. Because most other builds need to build into their effectiveness, there's been basically no better time to build early game harrass. It's not like any build can throw up AD Marks and harrass right back, you have to build that direction. That *IS* a playstyle now. YOu missed the point completely
Xinyuo (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ayzev,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=000000040000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-15T17:23:29.129+0000) > > http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=xinyou > > > http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/292/924/469.gif Look, i get it, eune players aren't the brightest around. But not only did you type the name wrong, this is also just a post account.
> [{quoted}](name=Ayzev,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=00000004000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2017-11-17T13:36:04.064+0000) > > You have the options to either politely explain why something is bullshit, or to just not respond at all if you're too lazy for that, but instead you choose to go for insults. What does this make you then if not an ass? > > You were silver both this season and last season, and your MMR is that of a Gold 4. You're not in a position to use "silver" for insults, you're only slightly better than one. I have explained it in every post And why don't you come to euw. We'll see how ''silver'' i am (and no, thats not a 1v1 challenge) Also , why are you talking about this seasons rank, i haven't even used this account yet this season, nor did s8 start. Eune chump.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 17
ye, lets nerf leo/taric based on pre season rather than checking if the runes arent retarded. Leona hasn't been relevant for 3 seasons, might be a hint. This is only gonna lock people into having to spec aftershock since leo will be garbo w/o it if they nerf her. Also, sona and nami are still doing better than taric, but i guess when its about egirls it doesn't matter
: > [{quoted}](name=Xinyuo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=0001000200010001,timestamp=2017-11-15T12:38:20.243+0000) > > Thief is pretty good gold inc atm its unreliable, unless you play champions like sona which cannot miss their attacks..... and it doesn't give you much sustain either.
> [{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=00010002000100010000,timestamp=2017-11-16T09:44:56.817+0000) > > its unreliable, unless you play champions like sona which cannot miss their attacks..... > and it doesn't give you much sustain either. Huh, thief has always been good lol. It does fall of later on but its by far the best early/midgame gold item. It also gives you really good trade potential Coin was simply bonkers for a while, but thief was still good, and now it got buffed (for some reason, even tho MR got removed???) its even better.
Xinyuo (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ayzev,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=000000040000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-15T17:23:29.129+0000) > > http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=xinyou > > > http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/292/924/469.gif Look, i get it, eune players aren't the brightest around. But not only did you type the name wrong, this is also just a post account.
> [{quoted}](name=Ayzev,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=00000004000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-16T06:11:22.950+0000) > > Fine, made a typo, but it didn't really matter anyway: > http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=xinyuo > > Also, you can't possibly expect anyone to listen to you with the attitude you're showing. The only thing you're accomplishing is making yourself look like an ass, so may as well just not post at all. Yes, you linked an inactive account i was rushing to gold before end of season (hence the jax winrate), then i realized they gave graves as reward, and seeing i already had graves it didnt matter. Also, i'm not being an ass just because i don't respond nicely to complete bullshit.
: Spellthief give you 10 AP, sorcery/domination give you 18 AP while Inspiration give you a god damn wooping 27 AP early. Add to that 5 ap if you take absolute focus. You can start the game with 42 AP as a support, to a minimum of 28. It is far bigger than everything AP support had before. Add to that the 'nerf' to magic resistance, add to that the damage coming with scorch and aerie and you can god damn bully with a soraka. Spellthief also give more gold every time you proc it. AP support are better, it is a fact. If they get a rough time, it will be because tank support could rise and their all-in is Deadly with the current dmg input of this season.
> [{quoted}](name=Nevrankroaton,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=0001000200010000,timestamp=2017-11-15T12:05:07.351+0000) > > Spellthief give you 10 AP, sorcery/domination give you 18 AP while Inspiration give you a god damn wooping 27 AP early. > > Add to that 5 ap if you take absolute focus. > > You can start the game with 42 AP as a support, to a minimum of 28. > > It is far bigger than everything AP support had before. Add to that the 'nerf' to magic resistance, add to that the damage coming with scorch and aerie and you can god damn bully with a soraka. > Spellthief also give more gold every time you proc it. > > AP support are better, it is a fact. If they get a rough time, it will be because tank support could rise and their all-in is Deadly with the current dmg input of this season. So its not even more unless you have absolute focus. We're not gonna name runes that are generally pretty terrible (i honestly can't imagine ever taking focus on anyone but nami, maybe im wrong) and inspiration is absolutely terrible once klepto gets nerfed. So you generally have 28 ap with spellthief, vs the 36 you would have had last season with the same incarnation of thief.
: I did actually write a support ticket about this issue to Riot. Guess what they told me! It seems rioters are trying to be ridiculously friendly when reacting to the community's negative feedback on some preseason changes. I am not going to post their reply here but basically i felt belittled when I was told how good of an idea it was to let players choose if they want bonus adaptive AD or AP. They acted as if they had not thought of it themselves before - utter bullcrap. Well, anyway... my issue as a support Leona Player is the same as with Bard. I want early bonus AD because my ability scalings are lousy af, which means I do more damage from autos with bonus AD, yet I am forced into AP. Preseason is gonna increase diversity and allow players to explore different builds my ass!
> [{quoted}](name=Doomsday Judge,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-11-15T18:25:35.852+0000) > > I did actually write a support ticket about this issue to Riot. Guess what they told me! It seems rioters are trying to be ridiculously friendly when reacting to the community's negative feedback on some preseason changes. I am not going to post their reply here but basically i felt belittled when I was told how good of an idea it was to let players choose if they want bonus adaptive AD or AP. They acted as if they had not thought of it themselves before - utter bullcrap. > > Well, anyway... my issue as a support Leona Player is the same as with Bard. I want early bonus AD because my ability scalings are lousy af, which means I do more damage from autos with bonus AD, yet I am forced into AP. Preseason is gonna increase diversity and allow players to explore different builds my ass! Haha, you got 1 who's obviously trying to score positive points in the ''how did we do'' mail.
Ayzev (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Xinyuo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=00000004000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-14T22:11:36.647+0000) > > Also what am i ignorant about, please, tell me how you are still s3 after 700+ games http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=xinyou http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/292/924/469.gif
> [{quoted}](name=Ayzev,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=000000040000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-15T17:23:29.129+0000) > > http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=xinyou > > > http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/292/924/469.gif Look, i get it, eune players aren't the brightest around. But not only did you type the name wrong, this is also just a post account.
Rexxiee (NA)
: 13 out of the 16 adcs have a sub 50% win rate atm
Nothing to do with ezreal having a near 30% pickrate with 57% w/l Also op gg only basing it on korean stats, other global websites show way more 50+ ps: i don't think AD's are in a good spot, but these stats aren't really showing anything.
: > [{quoted}](name=Nevrankroaton,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2017-11-14T21:26:09.514+0000) > > You get easily more AP early on a support, any sorcery main page or inspiration main/sorcery second gain a LOT of ap. > Add to that the ap from the blue support item and the massive new gold generation it give, and trust me, NONE of them have a bad early game. > > Annie support is being viable again for a reason pal. after 10 minutes which is mid to late game (at 20 min max adaptive ap from gathering storm). and what '' a LOT of ap'' ????? you start with 0 ap or 5 ap with focus try using amulet now........ every sup is forced {{item:3303}} or {{item:3302}} the issue is that spellthief is horrible gold income and relic shield is mainly for tanks.
> [{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=000100020001,timestamp=2017-11-15T09:51:12.315+0000) > > after 10 minutes which is mid to late game (at 20 min max adaptive ap from gathering storm). > and what '' a LOT of ap'' ????? you start with 0 ap or 5 ap with focus try using amulet now........ > every sup is forced {{item:3303}} or {{item:3302}} > the issue is that spellthief is horrible gold income and relic shield is mainly for tanks. Thief is pretty good gold inc atm
: So just pick up a {{item:1036}} early on if it's _that_ big an issue. I can't imagine it will be, though. Because if you're playing a support tank, you shouldn't even be bothering to opt into damage-oriented runes (the entirety of your budget goes to keeping you and your team alive), and if you're playing an enchanter, you scale with AP anyways.
Can i please have 1 person who isn't completely clueless/tunneling on band-aid strats react rather than all this nonsense posts. AD is strongest before your first/second buy, and in no way can you avoid buying ad around that time. There's simply no justification for this, you should not be locked out of the stat you want to optimize for early on (without completely gimping your early), no matter what champ.
: Ok wow, regret giving you a chance to not be an ignorant ass. Also your argument is that you believe Adaptive stats are bad for the game, and that you wish you had the choice back. There's nothing factual about that statement, that's an opinion. You may want to re-read your headline. I'll let you have the last word, I know that's your favourite thing to have, it helps you prove you're right. Why else would you comment on every single person visiting your thread that doesn't see it your way? Here you go, all the best and good luck out there friend. I'm out
''I'll let you have the last word, I know that's your favourite thing to hav'' Oh boy, can you use an even more overused trick please. The ''you reply you lose, you don't reply you lose trick'', shame that idc. I said adaptive stats are bad for certain classes/champs (quite a bit of em). And yes, i think speccing into something you have no control over is bad. Riot didn't think this trou. If runes are supposed to give you choices, then don't remove said choices Also what am i ignorant about, please, tell me how you are still s3 after 700+ games ''Why else would you comment on every single person visiting your thread that doesn't see it your way?'' Ye, weird that trying to prove a point, which mostly gets dumb reactions from people like you, results in that.
: You were telling your point through saying "you must be terrible at this game, oh I checked yes you are". Sorry but you are agressively attempting to tell everyone your opinion is a fact, when it is an opinion
No, its not an opinion, if you're stuck in silver for 3 seasons, and 700 games played this season alone, you're terrible Also, i typed that post before even checking your op gg, so maybe you should consider that the way you view this game reflects your ingame performance. (like, really, its unfair that people can do damage to you with AA's? There's 100's of ways to check if they got AD) Also, my ap vs ad argument is based on facts/performance bro.
: You get easily more AP early on a support, any sorcery main page or inspiration main/sorcery second gain a LOT of ap. Add to that the ap from the blue support item and the massive new gold generation it give, and trust me, NONE of them have a bad early game. Annie support is being viable again for a reason pal.
> [{quoted}](name=Nevrankroaton,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2017-11-14T21:26:09.514+0000) > > Y > > Annie support is being viable again for a reason pal. Annie support is as viable as sona jungle, electrocute is just broken
: We get it, you think playing aggro support is what make it skill and that people talking about you about AP ratio benefits are filthy hidden enchanter main or something. Now, understand that a conversation start with people trying to be polite toward each other, he was more than polite and opening a discussion, in your case, you just are a little whiny prick. Doesn't help engaging discussion in your incredible topic.
> [{quoted}](name=Nevrankroaton,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=000000040000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-14T21:24:25.643+0000) > > We get it, you think playing aggro support is what make it skill and that people talking about you about AP ratio benefits are filthy hidden enchanter main or something. > > Now, understand that a conversation start with people trying to be polite toward each other, he was more than polite and opening a discussion, in your case, you just are a little whiny prick. > > Doesn't help engaging discussion in your incredible topic. I think you are on the wrong website https://www.reddit.com/r/supportlol/ this is where you can engage in conversation, be completely wrong, and still be defended by white knights. Also, AP ratio benefits don't mean jack if AD is 3x stronger early.
: or you know don't wait till 30 minutes. like just building jaurims or hydra are enough to get ad.
Bro, ty, no, i mean really, thank you I thought me not getting challenger on my main account were my micro/macro still lacking+ lack of time But it seems not rushing J-fist or tiamat (its tiamat btw) at lvl 1-2 was the problem.
: Great argument :) You defend your post to the last by taking the low road, very nice. You're not wrong about the added risks with the old style, I'm saying I don't see a problem with power added into a support's abilities and out of other means. You can still play aggressively or passively
> [{quoted}](name=Noblewind,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=0000000400000000,timestamp=2017-11-14T20:30:47.605+0000) > > Great argument :) You defend your post to the last by taking the low road, very nice. > > You're not wrong about the added risks with the old style, I'm saying I don't see a problem with power added into a support's abilities and out of other means. You can still play aggressively or passively Yes, you can, and its less effective while promoting passive playstyle=bad (only those goin aery/with actual good ap ratios get reasonable compensated) I'm also not taking the low road, I'm simply confirming what you already made obvious from the start.
: isn't it based on what you build most of? build something that gives a bit of AD if you wanna go ad, if you don't idk why you'd care about the adaptive stats. Like I always build titanic on leo and i get AD just fine. Taric can utilise it pretty well too in my experience. support naut shouldn't care though i did always take ad runes on him, will be interesting to see if i can still oneshot full health minions with relics. while this isn't the answer you want it's the only solution i can see working. having to choose at the start would reduce the flexibility.
Yes, building tita hydra at 30 mins is a solution to the problem of having no AD in lane /s /s /s /s
: WHAT ap nerf? I have way more ap early now than I *ever* did as a support.
> [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-11-14T19:18:38.615+0000) > > WHAT ap nerf? > > I have way more ap early now than I *ever* did as a support. I haven't checked that. Tho with decent runes you could get 26+ lvl 1 @oldsystem
: I see no problem with this from a gameplay perspective. They added power to situational abilities and took it away from (for lack of a better term) cheese. Now when playing bard for instance it is increasingly more important to hit a stun and your meep autos. People are sort of crying for their old playstyles, but randomly doing more damage per auto to an enemy that can't even know you have that damage is pretty bad design imo. Really happy they got rid of those old runes
> [{quoted}](name=Noblewind,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=00000004,timestamp=2017-11-14T18:53:28.256+0000) > > I see no problem with this from a gameplay perspective. They added power to situational abilities and took it away from (for lack of a better term) cheese. > > Now when playing bard for instance it is increasingly more important to hit a stun and your meep autos. > > People are sort of crying for their old playstyles, but randomly doing more damage per auto to an enemy that can't even know you have that damage is pretty bad design imo. Really happy they got rid of those old runes Taking the risk to get in more damage rather than only playing around safe cd's isnt ''cheese''. You must be pretty darn terrible at this game if you think spamming long range/cd/safe abilities is somehow a more healthy/skillful playstyle than juggling minion aggro/ facing the risk of being engaged on/countertraded against with the tradeoff of getting more lane presence. It also screws over people who's ratio's are bad. That said, after checking you out, i guess you are.
: well i dont know about leona, she often take resolve right? which means low adaptive if any runes about it, if she take precision same story, if she go for sorcery comet then she could probably use that magic damage from her skills plus comet to play as a burst champion
What she takes doesn't matter (electro is better btw). If you want AD at lvl 1, you should have that choice w/o having to build an item. Also, AD is still better
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-14T13:55:14.003+0000) > > Adaptive is based on your damage output. If you are more slanted to magic damage, you're going to be adaptively getting AP. So if I build AD but do magic damage I get AP? It doesn't go based on my stats?
> [{quoted}](name=Dat Master Yi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2017-11-14T16:49:50.099+0000) > > So if I build AD but do magic damage I get AP? > > It doesn't go based on my stats? No, then you get AD, but you're obviously not gonna rush AD lvl 1 on a support
Rexxiee (NA)
: Supports are still broken, stop crying about nothing. In fact i think the support role has been too dominant for the last 2 years, they could use some massive nerfs.
That has nothing to do with what i said Its also good to see that after i left this board 1.5 year ago you're still talking out of your bottom.
: Adaptive is based on your damage output. If you are more slanted to magic damage, you're going to be adaptively getting AP. This is why the tanks get AP. Almost all of the support tanks deal tons of magic damage, and the majority of them have AP scaling in their kits too, while almost none of them have AD scaling. Therefore, while you don't hit harder with autos, having more AP will benefit you in the long run because it will help your abilities scale. Same goes true for Bard and Lulu.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XtVQxYcf,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-14T13:55:14.003+0000) > > Adaptive is based on your damage output. If you are more slanted to magic damage, you're going to be adaptively getting AP. This is why the tanks get AP. Almost all of the support tanks deal tons of magic damage, and the majority of them have AP scaling in their kits too, while almost none of them have AD scaling. Therefore, while you don't hit harder with autos, having more AP will benefit you in the long run because it will help your abilities scale. Same goes true for Bard and Lulu. No, this is not how it works (except for the fact that adaptive is based on your scaling, which is the problem). AP does not benefit you more over time (in the examples i gave). Scalings do not go up (if anything flat ap gets WEAKER once base damage goes up). If you do 55 more damage with ad at lvl 3 or 6, and only 21 more with ap, then AD is simply superior. Exceptions are only when your playstyle changes (for example, as lulu you're more ability focused lategame than early) (edit: yes, i'm aware ap scales when cd's go down) +starting stats are for, guess what, early game. If you want ap early on leo, you are probably terrible. ps: i use leo as example because she's the prime example for wanting AD, despite having AP scaling
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