Vulkus I (NA)
: So why did you use a picture of Guts from Berserk?
Well I can't draw for shit so I took an already designed character that would resemble him the most (and credited the artist of course). Theoretically he would need to have some throwing spears on his back but it's the closest thing I could get so...
: this is really great! it kind of fits my own characters lore "After several years the man had become successful in Noxus and returned home to his family in Demacia the soldiers recognized him and threw him in a cell deep within the earth. after 7 days the weak man was dragged to a podium where his parents were held. A cruel man stood at the front of the podium holding a sword. with a wicked grin he launched into a speech that fully opened the mans eyes to the cruelty of the nation of Demacia. As the speech ended the man hefted his sword and severed his parents heads from their bodies. The man's rage unlocked something deep within the broken recesses of his mind. Ancient Ionian shadow techniques flooded his mind and ancient voices tried to consume him. but the pure rage that had consumed the man crushed the spirits. the man tore off his chains and smashed a executioners head and relived him of his ceremonial shield before turning his rage on the rest of the city that had done nothing while one of its citizen's had been wrongly executed. the mans rage was endless and he barely listened to the pleas for mercy from his former neighbors. he eventually stormed the castle that overlooked the city and demanded that the lord of the land tell him why they slaughtered his parents. the lord stammered about how they were nothing but filthy Ionians and the city was glad to be rid of magic users like them. as his rage peaked the man removed the lords head with a single blow from his stolen shield and turned his rage and the ruins of the once great city. when the dust settled the entire city had been destroyed. forging a cloak out of shadows the man vowed to not use his own name until the day that Demacia burned to the ground. he swore to destroy a country whose power was at its peak, and so to create his own Zenith the man sought to crush an empire" https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/UZmwvKjL-zenith-the-scourge-of-demacia btw what modeling software did you use? i want to make my own model for my champion but i cant find a software to do it with
I think I saw that concept but to be honest all these icons in the middle of the text make it hard to follow. Try to make it like **this** when you refer to an ability or a resource or whatever. It's easier to read. I didn't model anything :P I suck at drawing and anything alike so I just took random pictures from the internet (I included the artist names ontop of the picture, you can also click the picture to get to the artists collection. Maybe you can find something fitting for your champion there!)
: A common trend I see with champion concepts is the love of passives and stacking designs. I'd urge you to stray away from too many of those, it makes the concept far too confusing for both the player, allies, and enemies. His normal passive alone totals of 4, many of them doing multiple things (stacking of course) All of his abilities have a plethora of extra effects that, together, are overloaded and unnecessary. Ex: He should not be receiving extra gold. He should not put a debuff on a champ until they are above 95%, that goes against Riot's philosophy design. It's completely unfun to play against. His spears are powerful already, why give them 2 charges? I applaud you for your ingenuity though, you've obviously put a lot of thought and effort into it. Trim the fat a bit, I really like the idea of debuffing an enemy through continual attacks (honestly what Pyke should have been IMO)
First of all thanks for the feedback! > A common trend I see with champion concepts is the love of passives and stacking designs. I'd urge you to stray away from too many of those, it makes the concept far too confusing for both the player, allies, and enemies. > > His normal passive alone totals of 4, many of them doing multiple things (stacking of course) The both stacking passive is just one thing, it's just that the one "stacks" the other one. The attack speed thing is here so people don't start building on-hit attack speed and nuclear blast your ass in 3 crippling strikes in 5 seconds out of the rift, it's not really a passive more so a gating mechanic so he doesn't break items like guinsoos. The gold generation thing is here so he can actually go support since bruiser items are the most expensive in the game. Though I agree on this point that the passive is a whole book ^^ It's longer than his lore. I just couldn't find a way to shorten it's description or fuse 2 together. If you have any ideas please let me know! > All of his abilities have a plethora of extra effects that, together, are overloaded and unnecessary. > Ex: He should not be receiving extra gold. He should not put a debuff on a champ until they are above 95%, that goes against Riot's philosophy design. It's completely unfun to play against. His spears are powerful already, why give them 2 charges? Hmm.... I think I'm going to remove the Ult stacking, tho the 4 stacks on his Q are necessary otherwise he can't solo-lane at all anymore. I'm going to nerf the spear throw slow down to 1.75 seconds so the 2 charges together don't slow for 6 seconds and reduce the bonus AD from E and W people get. The reason why I gave him 2 charges is that it makes the ability less "generic" and adds another counterplay point to his kit. The first spear is propably easy to dodge and the second one you need to half-predict. If he has only 1 spear you need to make that thing like an Urgot Q where it's nigh undodgable otherwise he can't get to anything. The perma debuff on his is needed otherwise the fighters can never get a lead. Getting 10 stacks onto his passive isn't the easiest thing to do and if they manage to pull it off then they should get rewarded heavily for it in the laning phase. Late game this isn't much of an issue because most of the after a teamfight everyone is dead anyway or a healer is there and removes all the debuffs. This is more so a laning phase type of thing where it enables them to play aggressive without getting cucked so hard because the enemy just healed everything back up again. Tho I would like to know why you think it would be unfun to play against? Since the enemy is mostly ranged other than tank supports (which he counters) they would have to fuck up big time to get 10 stacks onto them so early. Fighters cannot heal back up, keep in mind with Oracas support you are picking Darius/Olaf/J4 ADC. If they can't stop the enemy from just rebuilding themselves then their engage was useless and they have to basically just sit back now. Though maybe increasing the stack amount to 12 would be better now that I think of it, to further increase the gab between renged and melee, it would also give a little more playroom when fucking up. It for sure is something new to league I give you that but Riot hasn't been so strict about their philosophies either so I thought maybe I can get a little more creative too.
: Base stats and abilities are totally overloaded
His base MR is pretty high (to have some resistance against the heavy support poke) but his MR per level is pretty much crap to equal it out (he has around -9 MR than you usual bruiser at lvl 18). His base HP regen is also high since his high HP costs do more often than not, not get equaled out by Noxian Enemy. All other base stats are similar to other bruisers. When it comes to abilities, which one do you think is overloaded? Keep in mind that W's passive effect doesn't apply any damage to enemy champions. Edit: Now that I look at it, I have reduced base damages and increased scalings ^^ Overall it's a net nerf in damage.
Rioter Comments
: Now instead of 5 manning bottom
~~run~~ _sail_ it down ~~bot~~ _the river_ Yeah thats a new one
: i had a brief return to cs:go today
> league is toxic but it could be a lot worse Let's just say it could be worse but not by a lot..... just imagine the carnage if League had a kick feature too lol.
Salson (EUNE)
: Actually, camp respawn times were lowered, so Junglers can get more gold/exp from farming. Everyone just looks over it, as early ganks have much more impact than mid/late game stats.
I guess I phrased it poorly This is more or less what I meant with they got a net nerf. The core problem is that farming up in the jungle right now just isn't a viable thing, so just buffing it up might make it a little more viable but as long as it isn't something absurd it's going to stay unviable. The game is centered a lot around early game right now, when you get a lead early you can snowball out of control. That is the core problem. If that wouldn't be the case then junglers would generally don't feel forced to gank lvl 3 and scaling/slow junglers would see play again. I'm not saying this change is 180 degrees into the wrong direction or anything, just that it is a temporary solution to a permanent problem.
: And the point of this?
If it's going to happen it's only going to happen in NA. And I don't think that it is worth the work to program and moderate this service just for one region.
: Grievous Wounds Early Item For Mages
I would rather make the other items more expensive to be honest. Like giving bramble and avarice other stats/bonuses and moving the GW to the completed item.
: So... autofill getting removed?
I actually haven't seen it from this angle, the game quality will drop by a lot if a lot of people are just placed into a role they don't care about.
: Just a daily reminder Riot
Ay lad! Don't dare to kill off that meme! It's one of the few we have left!
Salson (EUNE)
: Riot is actually nerfing everything, exactly as we asked?
Nerfing everything is fine and yes that is more or less the right direction but here comes the big BUT! Malzahar'ing everything is the wrong direction. Yes you can just straight up nerf stuff (like taking away 200 damage from Mal ult) and call it balanced but more often than not you are just ignoring the core problems and just make the champion/role garbage to play. The mage changes were fine ('m still wating for the compensation buffs to mana hungry champs like Anivia but aside that it was fine) but the jungle changes are terrible. I'm not even a jungle player and I feel sorry for these guys. Not only did you completely trash any scaling jungler that has to farm up, no you also made the problem of jungle even worse. You basically force every jungler to pick a guy that can duel and gank at lvl 2 (which makes the role for a lot of people garbage). So instead of ganking at lvl 3 they are now ganking at lvl 2 and taxing the minions to get their lvl 3 or contesting the scuddle. And if you make it so a full clear doesn't even get you to lvl 1 then people are going to pick junglers that can fight and gank at lvl 1. You aren't fixing any core problems you are just making the role garbage and unlike Malzahar, the jungle will still stay a problem because they are mandatory. The only time this approach will fix the problem is when the jungle is so garbage that it is better to go back to season 1 double top... because there can't be a jungle problem if there is no jungler. Besides that, the jungle in general didn't need a nerf, what was needed was a power-shift. They were too strong early and weak in regards of their scaling. You needed to nerf their early strength and buff their scaling. You net nerfed the jungle, so their early is weaker and their scaling is still weak, this might solve the problem of early ganking but in the end it just makes the role unfun to play. I guess my point is, just FORCE nerfing stuff isn't the right way, you want to make them weaker, not unfun to play.
: You can't have skulls or anything too grotesque for international games rated "Teen". Sorry you want it to be more "undead" but it just isn't good business sense for rito to do so. I do agree that he looked like an ekko skin though.
> [{quoted}](name=Dark Saboteur,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8IrU5JZZ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-15T20:51:13.212+0000) > > You can't have skulls or anything too grotesque for international games rated "Teen". Sorry you want it to be more "undead" but it just isn't good business sense for rito to do so. I do agree that he looked like an ekko skin though. It doesn't have to be so detailed that you see the worms eating out of his eyes or anything like that. Just more "lifeless" like the shadow isles champions. Kalista has spears stuck in her stomach. Urgots splash shows a guy that is getting dissolved alive by acid Butcher Urgot shows a guy that is about to get butchered I think we can raise the "brutality" level of this splash without encountering problems with the age rating of the game, though I know that China has strict rules about showing skulls and bones. That might be the reason why he looks so "tame".
Paroe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Dead flag blues,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vHl0BnP5,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-15T11:10:38.828+0000) > > {{item:3190}} SUch an aweful item on anyone but a support with income. But it would also make a ton of sense to have a passive self-shield, since it lacks HP on its own. > [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vHl0BnP5,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-15T11:13:26.398+0000) > > what? no > > They got the item for the shield and never sold it until last item. What? I NEVER saw an ADC - even in pro play with it was a viable strat - upgrade it unless they were behind, and they always sold it shortly after lane phase ended. Are you confusing it with steraks or something?
> What? > I NEVER saw an ADC - even in pro play with it was a viable strat - upgrade it unless they were behind, and they always sold it shortly after lane phase ended. > Are you confusing it with steraks or something? Dude it was like at the start of season 8, right before the supp item reworks (well "rework" more like a rushed patch if anything, to end the "everyone abuses the supp items" meta) Just watch a video or a stream from before the supp item reworks and look at bot. Almost all ADCs in high elo picked it, the only guy of the top of my head that didn't do it was Tyler1 and he dropped like there is no tomorrow because of it. Steraks was a whole other story Edit: By the way I don't get notified when you reply like that.
: Betting
You know that uhh.. that the united states isn't the whole world right?
Bultz (NA)
: Does a single person here want this game balanced around pro play?
The way I see it is that balancing around pro-play is kind of stupid. If you want to balance around pro-play then you need to make the enitre game like pro-play, aka giving everyone a voice chat. If that is not possible then you need to stop balancing around pro-play and switch over to high elo soloQ.
Paroe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vHl0BnP5,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-15T11:03:07.070+0000) > > ADCs abused it and walked around with 1/3 of their HP as a permanent shield, thats why it got removed. > > Courage on the other hand would be a nice keystone that could replace Afterschock and give tank supports their shield back instead of that Guardian thing. ... What? ADCs never upgraded to targons brace or higher. They kept relic shield and sold it off as soon as the laning phase was over.
what? no They got the item for the shield and never sold it until last item.
Baval (NA)
: oh. tbh i didnt actually know entirely what you were talking about and assumed Galeos mag res=AP scaling was 1:1 at the time or something.
https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-721-notes Here is the legendary patch of 7.21 Galio (he got hotfixed) Just search for 7.21 Galio in youtube and you should find some "interesting" gameplay.
Paroe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vHl0BnP5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-15T10:50:56.482+0000) > > What the fuck is a thorn barrier? > > You mean Courage of the Colossus? No. And upon looking it up, its actually shield battery. Oops. Regardless... UNIQUE – QUEST: Earn Gold 750 using this item. REWARD: Shield Battery, a permanent shield for 255 - 340 (based on level) health. The shield regenerates slowly when out-of-combat. Executing minions with Spoils of War regenerates 64 - 85 (based on level) shield value. It was the old targons line quest reward. I guess i remember it as something much cooler than it was, but oh well!
ADCs abused it and walked around with 1/3 of their HP as a permanent shield, thats why it got removed. Courage on the other hand would be a nice keystone that could replace Afterschock and give tank supports their shield back instead of that Guardian thing.
Baval (NA)
: AP and AD dont scale nearly the same, nor do health and magic resistance.
wat? No I meant it as a joke since Riot thought giving a champ 9% max HP magic damage per 100 AP is a good idea, so the idea of 1:1'ing the ratio of AD and HP wouldn't be that far off.
Paroe (NA)
: You know what tank supports need? A good shield that scales off of max health.
What the fuck is a thorn barrier? You mean Courage of the Colossus?
Baval (NA)
: Obviously not 1:1, or Dorans Shield gives him 80 AD
GripaAviara (EUNE)
: Graves is one of the most broken champion ever allowed on rift yet hotfix still not comes
> Graves is one of the most broken champion ever allowed on rift yet hotfix still not comes LUL You clearly haven't played this game for too long Riot propably wants to wait on balancing ADCs prior to the ADC item update, it would be wasted time to balance something, then change and balance it again.
Baval (NA)
: Things that tilt your HEIMER dinger
: i have not played league since the release of kai sa need some help
The meta hasn't changed since patch 7.18 You still secure bot then go top then mid then get objectives and the game is over.
: Should there be more Champions who forcibly convert one stat into another?
yeah let's give that passive to Maokai for shits'n giggles. On a more serious note, this slaughters different playstyles. There is exactly 1 way to play Pyke now thanks to that passive. On the other hand, the champion can now be balanced easier since he has only 1 playstyle. It's kind of "meh" I guess. By the way, what tank gets Trinity Force?
: What Stops Pyke From Going Mid?
His wave clear isn't the best unless he has absurd numbers, his poke is kind of "eehh" too, so mid lane is kind of out of the mix already It highly depends on his numbers and cd's to say if he would be viable mid/jungle or not, if anything I would say he will be a jungler with a weak first clear, then gets tiamat and starts to gank or something like that. I don't see him being played support tho, any tank support will fuck im over.
: He is literally standing at a table with a bunch of drowned corpses tied down around him. Really doesn't hold a candle to the undead fantasy of smashing the ground as Morde or doing some evil standing like Sion amirite.
> [{quoted}](name=p a t r i o t,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8IrU5JZZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-15T08:31:09.706+0000) > > He is literally standing at a table with a bunch of drowned corpses tied down around him. > > Really doesn't hold a candle to the undead fantasy of smashing the ground as Morde or doing some evil standing like Sion amirite. And what about the table or dead people around him makes him undead? It shows that he has a table and has killed people. When I look at Mordekaiser I see no human anymore but more so a blood thirsty dead warlord that has risen from the dead again When I see Sion I see his countless injuries but still he stands there ready for the next fight as if he was undead. Pyke doesn't feel like an undead, he looks evil, looks like an assassin, looks like he would kill you any second but he doesn't look like an undead and I think that is kind of wasted potential. Maybe it's just me I don't know
Rioter Comments
Ekitaih (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FTcUJKi6,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-15T06:30:37.681+0000) > > Those jungle changes are needed for like 7 months now. I think it’s just poor timing. If they wanted the changes, they should do it in between season as it’ll likely effect ranked games considerably. People are going to have to adjust more for these changes than if it was just a small adjustment for a champ.
AP and ADC itemization rework? It's a problem that needs to be fixed asap. I agree that these changes are rather... "interesting" to say the least but they are needed. We can't just make it so every big change is scheduled towards pre-season, remember what happened the last time we did that? Ardent cancer meta, 4 months of pure bullshit meta, the worst meta this game had ever seen (seriously, I even enjoyed the fucking season 5 tank meta more, even the god damn "you have no jungler until min 30" feral flare meta) Now we are in the second worst meta this game has ever seen and it needs to be changed asap because people are starting to leave.
Ekitaih (NA)
: Jungle Changes should wait until preseason.
Those jungle changes are needed for like 7 months now.
: > [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yoWVznn8,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-11T12:30:44.506+0000) > > Darius going Tri? > I never saw that one to be honest both garen and darius have among the highest base ad values in the game. the sheen procs hit hard on both champions. the attack speed also helps darius specifically to build his stacks. im surprised that youve never seen it before, considering its one of his most common items. especially when he gets ahead.
I just saw it on OP.GG, Triforce into Steraks into PD has the highest winrate, the hell? When did that happen? Pick rate is 3% tho so that is propably why I never saw it. I generally don't see Darius in my games at all. I don't see it built on Garen tho.
: > [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yoWVznn8,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-11T09:23:51.356+0000) > > Most champs have a no-brainer rush item. > > Darius/Garen have Black Cleaver garen is probably one of the champions with the highest build diversity in the game. good garen players dont rush the same items every game, but almost always build different items depending on the enemy team, their own team, and their goal for the game. cleaver isnt even a common item on him anymore. both, darius and garen prefer triforce in many cases.
Darius going Tri? I never saw that one to be honest
: Add a few new AP items
I thought of a higher tier priced item and came up with this: Warmogs Frozen Infinetly edged by nashors echoed tooth, void corrupted lord dominik's staff of mortal wisdomly raged reminding duct taped on king rabaddons ruined-omen fidora +230 Attack Damage +415 Ability Power +140% Attack speed +12% Life steal +40 Magic resist +60 Armor +1900 Health +200 Base Health Regeneration +30% CDR +600 Mana Unique – Last Whisper: +35% bonus armor penetration. Unique – Executioner: Physical damage inflicts Grievous Wounds on enemy champions for 5 seconds. Unique – Giant Slayer: Grants 0% - 20% (based on health difference) bonus physical damage against enemy champions with greater maximum health than you. Unique – Unstoppable Void: Magic damage ignores 40% of the targets magic resistance. Unique – Edge lord: Critical hits deal 250% damage instead of 200% Unique – Fidora: Increase your Ability Power by 40% Unique – Fast Tooth: 20% cooldown reduction Unique – Magical Tooth: 15 + 15% AP magic damage on hit Unique – Rage: Basic attacks deal 15 magic damage on hit Unique – Unleashed Rage: Whatever rageblades long ass stacking passive is Unique – Ruined: Basic attacks deal 8% current HP as magc damage Unique – Ruination: Deals 100 magic damage and steals 25% of targets movementspeed for 3 seconds Unique – Wisdom: 42 magic damage on hit Unique – More wisdom: Basic attacks steal 6 magic resist up to 5 stacks. Unique – Get Randuin'd: You take 20% less damage from critcal strikes Unique – Beating Heart: Heal a lot out of combat Unique – Frozen: Basic attacks slow people Unique – Echo spell: Spells have purple bonus damage Cost: 33000.5 gold I think this item could open up some new playstyles like Ziggs going full tank assassin engage control back-line cc fighter ranged ADC artillery mage disengage frontliner lane bully mobile battlemage healer disrupter juggernaut instigator skirmisher kite aggro-control tank jungler true damager tank anti-initiator teamfight controller. What do you think?
: Shaco is still way too overtuned
Just get oracles from Klepto bro
: How to know which items to buy in league
Most champs have a no-brainer rush item. Darius/Garen have Black Cleaver Edit: I guess Triforce Darius is a thing too Jax has Triforce After that it changes a lot. Let's look for items for all 3 champions: {{item:3047}} Your standard boots when you think that the other boots are not needed. {{item:3111}} Against heavy CC comps (excluding knock-up cc). {{item:3009}} Against heavy slow comps and you think you are/will be tanky enough {{item:3143}} When enemy has more than 1 critter or the enemy crit - ADC is a problem. {{item:3193}} When you are the only front-liner in your team and have to lead the charge {{item:3748}} / {{item:3074}} When you want to splitpush (Isn't optimal on Garen) {{item:3075}} Against heavy healing comps {{item:3076}} An early bramble buy helps you against a healing top laner (For example Maokai or Aatrox) or against a ranged poke guy (Like GP or Quinn) {{item:3156}} Against HEAVY AP comps. This item doesn't work with Steraks Cage so you either get that or the other. {{item:3155}} You can buy the mini-version of Maw in laning phase when having problems facing an AP Poke champ (Like Lissandra or Swain) {{item:3194}} Against Magic Damage based marksmen or heavy DOT damage or spammy magic champions like Ryze ({{champion:110}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:145}} are the Magic damage based marksmen, though keep in mind Varus and Kai'sa can go an AD route, so watch their build) {{item:3083}} When facing heavy poke comps {{item:3110}} Against AD attack-speed based comps (do not buy this item coupled with Thornamil since your HP-Pool will be too low then) {{item:3060}} When you opt into wave-manipulation / map control (Isn't an optimal item on neither of the 3 champions but it isn't the worst thing) {{item:3068}} When you are going the tank route and want some wave-clear and bonus damage {{item:3102}} Not that popular on the 3 champs but if you opt into a fast engage then this item will make it more consistent Darius: {{item:3800}} When you get kited too well and have problems closing up on people {{item:3053}} A solid Darius item to negate burst damage {{item:3065}} Your standard MR item since it bumps up your healing {{item:3742}} Gives you movementspeed if you need it (In it's current state it's not that good of an item tho) {{item:3026}} When you are ahead and/or your team cannot afford to lose you that quickly for whatever reason (not built often) Jax: {{item:3077}} An early Tiamat helps with pushing the wave very efficiently and gaining priority in laning phase if needed (mostly build as a first item even before your rush item) {{item:3036}} When you are against way too many tanks and you DIDN'T pick Conqueror (Do not buy this when you have Conq) {{item:3053}} Standard Jax item. Mostly bought after Triforce or as the 3rd item. {{item:3512}} Solid item when you opt into split-pushing (Is a bad item on Darius and Garen tho) {{item:3022}} When you are ahead and have problems sticking on people {{item:3146}} Very situational item, it gives you extra sustain and empoweres your magic damage plus it gives you extra sticking potential and burst damage. {{item:3153}} When you get kited too much and need life-steal (gives some burst damage) {{item:3124}} When you have no problems sticking onto people and you are going a damage heavy or on-hit build {{item:3025}} When you REALLY can't buy Triforce for some reason or you are going full-tank (this item doesn't work with Triforce) {{item:3091}} Against heavy AP comps {{item:3026}} A solid aggressive item for Jax Garen: {{item:3742}} Again, If you need the movementspeed, if not, ignore this item. {{item:3053}} For when you are ahead (do not buy this when behind) {{item:3142}} When you need the movementspeed and don't need tankiness (also gives higher roaming potential) {{item:3147}} When you need the slow and ambush people a lot + you want vision control (do not buy this with youmus since your tankiness will not be enough) After your damage items you pretty much go full-tank (normally you have 2 damage items like {{item:3078}} {{item:3053}} followed by 3 tanks items, you can go for 3 damage and 2 tank for more damage of course, getting more damage items after that isn't recommended since you will not be tanky enough to get that damage off in the first place) Hope I was of assistance Edit: I am no Garen / Darius / Jax main so I might have forgotten some very situational stuff
Hyrtheue (NA)
: People banning your champ
You could fight fire with fire and pick Ivern/Fiddle top with cleanse/ghost when they ban Quinn and force seomeone else to dodge instead of you. It's a scum move but there isn't much else you can do against that, other than the name change thing. Just watch out that the game doesn't go through by accident, be ready to dodge last second when nobody else does.
: > [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JqqORfGW,comment-id=00020001000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-11T08:04:35.806+0000) >You need to kill that one minion, not the whole wave. Last time I checked her single target damage is pretty good. That one minion is usually behind other minions, making it actually kind of difficult to kill in most situations without just flat out E>autoing it. > Again, this is a dumb argument. So the whole team should wait for you to get your spell? > When grouping you want to siege stuff, you want to get objectives but you can't do that when clearing a wave takes 10 seconds because some guy needs a spell. Or, your team could clear all the minions in the half a second it takes their ADC to take a whole wave, and leave the one minion that Zoe needs? Outside of Statikk Shiv proccing and accidentally killing it, I see NO reason for anyone else to INTENTIONALLY take that minion. Again, PURE GREED. There's no other excuse for that.
> Or, your team could clear all the minions in the half a second it takes their ADC to take a whole wave, and leave the one minion that Zoe needs? Outside of Statikk Shiv proccing and accidentally killing it, I see NO reason for anyone else to INTENTIONALLY take that minion. Again, PURE GREED. There's no other excuse for that. Yes if the ADC clears it, what if Viktor comes along and casts a ray? Xerath, Ziggs, Anivia, literally any wave clearing mage? They can't control what they clear, they just clear the whole thing. {{champion:75}} {{champion:14}} have it way harder than Zoe to kill minions when grouping as 5. > PURE GREED. There's no other excuse for that. Because it still takes longer than to just clearing the wave? Believe me, if it actually would be worth giving you the spell in return of slowing the team down for 3 seconds or so then they would do it. Like they help Cho to get his stacks when doing drag or something like that. Because they know that giving Cho the stack is worth the 5 second wait. Giving you the spell is not worth the 3 second wait when you are trying to do stuff as 5. Keep in mind, you are 20% of the team. That ability is 20% of you. That ability can be activated through other means too (your own summoners and picking up used spells) so in the end that is like 2% of your teams power-budget that is being left behind.
: > [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JqqORfGW,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2018-05-11T07:30:30.040+0000) > > Pretty sure any minion dies with a reasonably ranged Q plus auto. > A ranged minion just dies by any ranged Q and an auto. > You just need to kill that one minion that has the spell, you don't need to clear the whole wave. > > A Swain is also responsible for his own passive stacks. It's not the job of his team to ensure he has passive stacks ready, It certainly helps if the team assists him but it's not a must. > Same with Zoe, you have tools to ensure that you kill the minion, a Q with ult surely kills any minion. You might have to work more for it but it isn't like you can't do it. Nope, her wave clear sucks now. Maybe if you have two full items you can wave clear with Q the way you're talking about, but with just a doran's ring or one full item you're not gonna be clearing anything. Also if you took a minion that Zoe could have used to help your team out of greed, that's being a bad teammate. You're putting your team at a disadvantage because you're removing one of Zoe's abilities.
> Nope, her wave clear sucks now You need to kill that one minion, not the whole wave. Last time I checked her single target damage is pretty good. > Maybe if you have two full items you can wave clear with Q the way you're talking about, but with just a doran's ring or one full item you're not gonna be clearing anything Then you are still in laning phase and don't have to deal with teammates stealing your spells, unless you have like 2cs/min then yeah. > Also if you took a minion that Zoe could have used to help your team out of greed, that's being a bad teammate. You're putting your team at a disadvantage because you're removing one of Zoe's abilities. Again, this is a dumb argument. So the whole team should wait for you to get your spell? When grouping you want to siege stuff, you want to get objectives but you can't do that when clearing a wave takes 10 seconds because some guy needs a spell. That is putting your team on a higher disadvantage than not giving you a spell would. Edit: > because you're removing one of Zoe's abilities Then this is trash design and needs to be reworked.
Doge2020 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JqqORfGW,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-11T06:29:41.877+0000) > > > Or concede all cs because I need Hp or AP or Stacks {{champion:14}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:75}} Well it is kinda hard to get your stacks as nasus when everybody decides to take the minions of the lane that you were already at. I have had countless games where my team doesn’t understand that in order to do damage I need to stack minions, then when I tell them to repeatedly stop they complain in all chat that I want all of the minions to my self. As a nasus player I understand that my fed adc needs farm in order to stay ahead, I just ask them to leave me some minions so I can stack. It is pretty hard to do your job when there are people fcking up your job after you told them to stop.
Yes I know, it's hard to stack as a Nasus when grouping 5 v 5. Thats why I listed him here, that some others champions have it harder to do their "job" (in regard of getting spells/scalings online) than Zoe. And it is stupid to ask their team to stop clearing minions, when grouping you want to siege stuff, you want to get objectives but you can't do that when clearing a wave takes 20 seconds because some guy needs a spell or needs to stack something. Also you can't really expect that your team leaves a minion (or a specific one in Zoe's case) up for you to do your "job". Since wave clearing abilities do exactly that, clear the whole thing. You can't just cast a Viktor ray and leave up a minion at the end, it just clears the whole thing. Having said that, as a Nasus you generally want to stick in side lanes until you have enough stacks to teamfight anyway (which is 500 if I remember correctly?)
: > [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JqqORfGW,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-11T06:29:41.877+0000) > > That is pretty dumb. > > It's like saying "concede all of your cs because I need silver serpents that could turn around a fight in our favor" {{champion:41}} > Or concede all cs because I need Hp or AP or Stacks {{champion:14}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:75}} > > It's your job to pick up spells, not your teams job as much as it's the job of above mentioned champions to gain their scalings. > > And at the end of the day, her W and Passive needs to be reworked anyway. Honestly with Zoe's waveclear now it seriously feels like you have to use E to even get that minion unless they're already almost dead and you get a max range Q.
Pretty sure any minion dies with a reasonably ranged Q plus auto. A ranged minion just dies by any ranged Q and an auto. You just need to kill that one minion that has the spell, you don't need to clear the whole wave. A Swain is also responsible for his own passive stacks. It's not the job of his team to ensure he has passive stacks ready, It certainly helps if the team assists him but it's not a must. Same with Zoe, you have tools to ensure that you kill the minion, a Q with ult surely kills any minion. You might have to work more for it but it isn't like you can't do it.
: I have said it before and ill say it again
Cleanse removes his ult no? With remove I mean it stops it from following you. So why not opt into cleanse when fighting Fizz just like you do when fighting TF? An evenly ahead Fizz can't 100 - 0 you without his ult damage.
: Please learn how to play with a zoe on your team...?
That is pretty dumb. It's like saying "concede all of your cs because I need silver serpents that could turn around a fight in our favor" {{champion:41}} Or concede all cs because I need Hp or AP or Stacks {{champion:14}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:75}} It's your job to pick up spells, not your teams job as much as it's the job of above mentioned champions to gain their scalings. And at the end of the day, her W and Passive needs to be reworked anyway.
Vartius (EUNE)
: {{champion:82}} could potentially use it for Q, however it may just as well be completely useless due to his base attack speed. We will see.
it's going to be bugged on him I'm calling it
: Why not bring Deathfire Grasp back? RIP DFG 2009 - 2015 </3
Because of this {{champion:45}} that {{champion:7}} that guy {{champion:105}} and that one {{champion:103}} Also AP Malphite would run amok
: > [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3vMRYMTE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-08T12:31:11.336+0000) > > Ok so what would a dark ice weapon differenciate from a true ice weapon? > > I don&#x27;t know much about the &quot;ice-lore&quot; in league but it seems like both are just ice. > > In that sense just lowering the brightness of your monitor would make Trundle&#x27;s weapon a dark ice weapon no? > > On the other hand, it&#x27;s pretty hard to fit an ice champion into league that is unique. > A guy that yields a dark ice weapon is basically Trundle > A dark ice golem is basically Anivia / Lissandra > > I think if we ever get something related to dark ice it will be a skin or perhaps an item. Lissandra is a Queen, not a golem :p.
An entity that is made out of ice is what i was trying to refer to ^^
SoShady (EUNE)
: Well yeah. But that Comet is a goddamn skillshot at times. But still why wouldn't he be able to proc it? Like that tiny change matters? All assassins and champions who use it have to use multiple attacks and abilities anyway why not just make it so GP can proc it with the ult? Also that is even worse! Meaning Assassins get buffs constantly. But they always nerf shit important to him! First bye bye lethality runes then bye bye 50 more crit damage on IE. It's hell.
I know what you mean. Glascannon GP is getting the short end of the straw a lot of times lately. But making it so it just procs on GP ult adds inconsitency to the game and that is a bad thing. The crit item changes are also a big hit to that playstyle, im going to try some builds out after the patch release to roughly get the same damage output as now but I think we would need some external help from riot (maybe buffing up his bonus AD ratios) to reach the same damage as of right now. I just hope they don't brush it of as "Bruiser GP has a good winrate, play that instead of Glascannon" and actually supports that dying playstyle.
: What happened to the early game of Tanks?
> When a tank goes top lane with Doran's shield and Resolve (casual 750 or around hp) the lane immediately becomes a FARM LANE. Given equal skill, you are not able to kill 1v1 a tank, not even early game. That is not engaging laning. If you force him out of lane, he can easily recall and lose some farm which is not that impactful (see point 4) With Conq, a lot more champs have ways to deal with tanks (Stuff like Rene is still trash but that is beside the point). Also I don't know what you are thinking but losing like 3 waves of minion gold and xp pretty much means that the lane is over for you, so it's VERY impactful to make your opponent miss cs. > Tanks mostly due to their kit are insanely hard to set behind. Riot claims that every role / class has some form of counterplay. This counterplay in case of tanks used to be their early game where they were vulnerable and exploitable. This is no longer the case. That is because tanks generally have more utility based kits. It's like Lissandra, she could be 0/500, her rotation still ccs someone for 3 seconds. It's the free tankiness they get and the base damage of their abilities (which I will explain further below) that carry them when behind. Also, tanks did't use to have 120 Armor lvl 1 and damage ontop of that with Afterschock, they just had a shitty shield that was powerful in teamfights. So instead of having a powerful keystone in teamfights, they now have a powerful Keystone at all stages of the game. That also buffed their early game. > Tanks used to buy tank items to survive laning phase. Why do Nasus players now RUSH Sheen and Triforce with impunity? A champion that has no mobility and needs to scale now rushes an aggressive on-hit item because he is so tanky by stats / kit that he can walk up to you and destroy you early-mid game. First of all, Nasus is not a tank. Second of all, Tanks used to actually buy a damage item first most of the time. ROA used to be a premium top tank item on people like Cho, Malphite, Maokai etc. The reason they did that is because they dealt no damage and had high scalings. But Riot being Riot thought "nah fuck that, let's throw balance out of the window!" and reduced their scalings and buffed their base damages. Which further buffed their early game and got completely rid of the first damage item buy. So they are able to just go full tank, which buffs their early game even more. > 4 Tank items used to be around 3k gold and upwards but riot made it so they are cheaper but provide less stats overall. Warmogs used to be 1K HP for example (though without the mega-regen passive out of combat) and costed 3K. So they got cheaper because of that and tanks spike harder in mid game now but are weaker in later parts of the game. Also Banner of Command isn't really a tank item and the effect surely isn't "game changing". By that logic ZZ'Rod is a tank item too. > (Have you guys noted how top lane bruisers carries stopped building Last Whisper? Not effective anymore on non-dps champions. Another issue) No they don't build it anymore because A) They have Conq now B) Their in-built anti tank mechanics are strong enough (Nasus has 35% armor pen on his E he doesn't need a last whisper he just gets it for free) C) ADC's are doing that job Which brings me to my next point. > Riot is looking into AD carries and how to weaken the role / class. This is a mistake in my opinion. AD carries have been important part of the game since release the reason that bot lane is so dominant is not due to how powerful carries are. ADC-s are dominant because Riot overbuffed Supports and Tanks. Any shield / heal support renders the ADC extremely powerful right now. The assassin class update sought to introduce more counterplay to assassins so the class is dead in any coordinated environment (pro play for example). Tanks render top lane a farm lane. No, no and no again. It is a perfect idea to throw ADCs out of their throne. Actually just leave them in the dumbster for the next 6 years so they have a "meta/out of meta" ratio of 50% which would be balanced. Just because they have been important for ever doesn't mean we shouldn't get rid of that. ADCs have been dominant since for ever, even when supports were shit, even when tanks were shit, even when fucking ADCs were shit they have been dominant and were seen in every match. Don't you see the problem? If ADCs are strong then tanks need to be strong because otherwise you have no front-line anymore (tank meta season 5). If tanks are strong then bruisers and assassins are shit because they can't do anything/get past these tanks anymore. So you buff them and assassins now just look at ADCs to one shot them and Bruisers run amok (lethality/juggernaut meta in season 6 and early season 7). So you buff supports which in return now fuck over assassins and keep the bruiser off of anything and the ADC becomes immortal (Ardent meta). So what you do is buff tanks so people have enough time to kill ADCs again (start of season 8)... This is called powercreep and you need to hit this problem from it's roots and that is the ADC. Throw the ADC from it's throne, rebalance the game around the philosophy of not needing an ADC anymore. > Curb the base stats of tanks. Make them weak early game and scale well into late game (how it used to be for at least 5 seasons). Give them their scalinds back and reduce base damages. Your suggestion is a good idea yeah. > 2 That is called powercreep, see above on how to remove that. Garen / Nasus still aren't tanks by the way. > 3 I mean... If Nasus has 49.5% WR he is pefectly balanced. Overcreeped but balanced. What I understand tho are problematic champs like Shaco. These champs should be left unviable because there is nigh no counterplay to them. > 4 None of those listed champs are actually tanks. WW is the closes thing to a tank. {{champion:3}} is a battlemage {{champion:6}} Is a Juggernaut and with that, has the highest base scalings in this game (Juggernauts have the best stats in the entire game) {{champion:83}} Is a Juggernaut too {{champion:19}} I some sort of drain-tank diver, not a full tank. Warwick rework was 10/10 even balance wise. He slowly climbed his way up to 54% WR over time, that wasn't the case since release or something. They have better scalings than tanks because they aren't tanks, it's that simple really. > 5 Stop acting like this is a good thing! Them being the only tank buster class is bad! REALLY BAD FOR THE GAME HEALTH! Rework their class and you can balance tanks individually instead of "oh this tank survives 3 seconds longer against ADCs so he is the strongest" This is beyond retarted and the balance team should feel ashamed that they haven't fixed this at all with their mid season update. They made it even WORSE!! > 6 This is a very good point! They need to stop bringing out new champions before balancing out the last one released. {{champion:145}} is still broken and needs to be balanced first before releasing another balancing problem. Because the designers are slowly becoming.... rather lazy with the implementation of their designs in league and the consequences following that. > Thank you all for reading! I know it was a long post but I feel that we must talk about why League is losing players / streamers / popularity. I feel like top lane is part of the problem and I still love this game and find it fun (when I'm not farming 24/7 in a lane that offers no engagement). It's not just top, top just got mass genocided because Riot needed 8 months to add a keystone that should have been in the game since the rune rework. Jungle is shit Mid is all over the place Bot is retarted Top is trying to recover but the jungler is making this process a long one This game is out of control and the only way to fix it is to literally mass revert 80% of the game back to an earlier state. Starting with the runes. Edit: You just got counter-wall of text'd son!
k gr8 (NA)
: But it's not dark ice. It's true ice.
Ok so what would a dark ice weapon differenciate from a true ice weapon? I don't know much about the "ice-lore" in league but it seems like both are just ice. In that sense just lowering the brightness of your monitor would make Trundle's weapon a dark ice weapon no? On the other hand, it's pretty hard to fit an ice champion into league that is unique. A guy that yields a dark ice weapon is basically Trundle A dark ice golem is basically Anivia / Lissandra I think if we ever get something related to dark ice it will be a skin or perhaps an item.
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nelogis

Level 54 (EUW)
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