SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=olilopes,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QkGguRAI,comment-id=000700020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-12T18:28:35.364+0000) > > Absolutely, but what if Riot used a mere fraction of their profits to improve that tribunal and gave qualified people an actual salary to do what this automatic system is attempting to accomplish? Hundreds of thousands of reports are nothing to a handful of qualified people who work a regular schedule every day only to address them. > > Obviously this would imply spending a small amount of their profits simply towards improving their community, and the fact that they've always been reluctant to do this (unlike companies like Valve) is pretty bad. I was only being modest on the number and used figurative "large number" rather than factual ones. Do note: * Roughly 27 million players play the game daily, with concurrent players at any given time of the day peaking at 7.5 million; and that is the data from 2014, 3-4 years ago, the current number may be higher. * And that's just the number of players per day. A player usually plays multiple matches per day, most people play more than 2 matches per day. So you have to times that figure by a multiple of 2 or greater to get the number of matches played per day. * And also remember, a match can also result in multiple reports. So you need to multiply the figure by another factor to get the total number of reports. PER DAY. Now just sit back and let the amount of reports there are per day slowly sink into your mind. And then think if Riot is just gonna hire people to process the reports. The answer is obvious. Obviously they only use their hire to deal with trickier cases and let the bot deal with the general cases.
50+ Million players playing every day doesn't imply that there will be 50+ million reports to address, and those numbers don't imply that there isn't a way for human hire to deal with them which will still be a lot better than bots. And then there's the main problem, you said "they only use their hire to deal with trickier cases and let the bot deal with the general cases" but who decides what's a trickier case and what isn't? Another bot with a huge chance for inaccuracy..
: Do you have a specific example where that happened?
Yes, that's how I got banned and that's why I'm using my ban as an example in this post. I often drink when I play this game, which leads me to respond to flamers a bit too fast, however I've always made sure that my responses were simply correct, such as "You're the one who's (insert the insult they were throwing at their team) since you're just yelling at your team while we try to help each other and win", afterwards the person I was talking to will DEFINITELY report me, and after a few games where this exact situation happens, I WILL get banned eventually.
Jo0o (NA)
: The automated system is actually really strong in terms of identifying work-arounds, like alternate spelling of insults. I've yet to see evidence suggesting that anybody knows ways to "dodge" the system.
Alternative spelling of insults? You call that a work-around when trying to insult someone or your whole team in general? Surely you know that communication isn't half as limited as that.
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=olilopes,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QkGguRAI,comment-id=0007000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-12T18:14:14.006+0000) > > That's a very fair point, but as I mentioned it also creates MANY instances where the player will be accused wrongly, and sure they can "inquire through a support ticket" and have their case reviewed, but my point is that all cases should be reviewed and there's no way to "speed up the process". If you want a truly well built system then you can't be looking for such shortcuts. How else do you suppose Riot is going to review tens and hundreds of thousands of reports (or even higher) they get globally everyday? Remember, the player-driven Tribunal was only retired (and have its data integrated into the current automated system) because it was already lagging behind, despite the community dedicated a good portion of its playerbase into policing the reports and even though the game was vastly less popular back then with far less reports flying around.
Absolutely, but what if Riot used a mere fraction of their profits to improve that tribunal and gave qualified people an actual salary to do what this automatic system is attempting to accomplish? Hundreds of thousands of reports are nothing to a handful of qualified people who work a regular schedule every day only to address them. Obviously this would imply spending a small amount of their profits simply towards improving their community, and the fact that they've always been reluctant to do this (unlike companies like Valve) is pretty bad if you ask me.
: > [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QkGguRAI,comment-id=000200000003,timestamp=2018-02-12T17:04:20.224+0000) > > There is only 1 way in which you can be a (kinda) dick and not get banned. > > Spamming. > > You usually have to be some special kind of spamming to actually get banned, given generally people would not report it, and so most spammers get off quite easily. > > But that's it. > > Most of the "tips" really just comes down to being a decent human being, and never use discriminatory slurs or tell someone to kill themselves given Riot has a 'no-tolerance policy' regarding those terms. That's all there is to it. Just be a normal person. The system even has leniency built into it, it does actually overlook raging if it's infrequent (assuming discriminatory slurs and "kys" and stuff like that aren't part of the raging). na calling someone bad when they actually are (score proves it) when they are the ones flaming the whole game will get u banned also....u dont want to get banned afk or int.....those ppl dont seem to get punished at all. only verbal n discrimintory gets banned nowadays
You're absolutely right, and that's pretty frustrating. I don't flame at or even remotely blame people for being bad at the game, yet here I am being banned permanently because I often respond to people who do that, by simply telling them to shut up and stop being toxic.
Scuttle (NA)
: If you were actually banned for what you say you were banned for, you can log in and view them.
You want me to re-install this game which I plan to never play again, just so I can attempt to log into my banned account and give you those chat logs to say that my permanent ban should have been temporary.
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=olilopes,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QkGguRAI,comment-id=00070002000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-12T17:43:14.744+0000) > > You're just calling me old :(. > Look I love technology but we did not reach a point where we can create an automatic system that can actually tell if someone is really being a dick or not. Hell, even humans have trouble with that. I wasn't calling you old. I just said tech has improved. The automatic system is just to handle all obvious and easy to tell cases. Specific and edge cases that may have wrongly resulted in ban are to be inquired through support ticket, which they would do a review, and if indeed the suspension is found faulty then the account will be pardoned. The reason for doing this is obvious, because LoL has too many matches commenced daily, so a bot has to be included to speed up the process. Most cases are going to be obvious anyway, which bots would save a ton of time by going through them quickly, leaving human moderators to deal with trickier cases.
That's a very fair point, but as I mentioned it also creates MANY instances where the player will be accused wrongly, and sure they can "inquire through a support ticket" and have their case reviewed, but my point is that all cases should be reviewed and there's no way to "speed up the process". If you want a truly well built system then you can't be looking for such shortcuts.
: > [{quoted}](name=olilopes,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QkGguRAI,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2018-02-12T17:47:31.584+0000) > > I just talked from experience. So that's a silly assumption you're making. > I also work at a restaurant and deal with the exact type of people you're trying to label me as. Then you should know what I am talking about and there shouldn't even be an argument. If you are a disruptive customer, you get thrown out. If you are "trying to help the restaurant" by confronting the disruptive customer yourself and become disruptive as well, the restaurant is throwing you both out..doesn't matter who started it or finished it.
That's simply not true. If a customer was being an obvious dick in every way and troubling the experience of our other customers, I would be completely entitled to say "sir you need to stop talking and leave the establishment", and there would be no automatic system nor any group of children that could kick me out over it because they saw me using the term "stop talking" and decided that it was toxic and ban worthy.
: I can see why you were banned based on how you wrote this post. If the tribunal system banned you have most likely been toxic in multiple games and you can't call people "tards" because there are a lot of words that trigger a ban. If you were perma banned then you have probably been banned before (temporarily). If you were banned before then you need to be careful with your chat usage and chill out. You will never have to see that person again once the game is over so let it go and let them get banned instead of you by not flaming them back. It's too late now but just remember to let it go and don't flame them and get yourself banned.
You're right, and that's why I deserved to get banned (although not *permanently* banned), but I still believe that the problem (the fact that an automatic system is handling all the reports and that merely being reported already affects you) should be addressed.
: > [{quoted}](name=olilopes,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QkGguRAI,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-02-12T16:39:06.437+0000) > > What are you talking about? If I was appealing for an unban I'd do that. > I addressed a problem with this game and its' community, and the way Riot is dealing with that problem. > > If you're not interested in this or don't want to discuss it then replying to it is pointless. Well to get the diversion out of the way first: That writing technique, it's not clever; don't think it is. To the point, I wrote that it this is pointless because you did not do that. You didn't address anything. All you did was an assertion that everyone know is clearly and blatantly false followed by complaint about **the system that does not even work that way.** So yeah, that _is_ only way to get anything worthwhile for anyone out of this thread.
You're just attempting to criticize me to avoid actually discussing what I'm talking about. I don't use writing techniques and I'm not trying to be clever, I'm being honest and trying to share my view on this whilst also listening to anyone who disagrees and trying to understand *their* view. If you're not interested in that sort of exchange then I don't see why you're here.
Jo0o (NA)
: Your method of "addressing" the problem paints you as *part* of the problem. If you want to suggest that your ban was unjust, you're going to need to offer actual evidence to support that claim. Otherwise, you're just another banned player salty about their punishment.
You labeling me as "just another X" only sends out presumptuousness. I already mentioned that I just wanted to discuss a problem that I believe should be addressed. If you disagree then please share your thoughts on it. I'm not simply suggesting that my ban was unjust, I should be banned for talking back to flamers, since this only escalates the flaming, however I shouldn't have been *permanently* banned, and I wouldn't have been permanently banned if a qualified person had addressed the problem instead of an automatic system or a tribunal of random internet people (which is what it used to be). Taking the facts into account, It's obvious that they're not paying enough attention to the toxicity of the community. Don't you agree?
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=olilopes,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QkGguRAI,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-02-12T17:33:42.058+0000) > > -6 wtf xD > If this was in-game, IRL, in a forum outside of this one, or literally ANYWHERE else, everyone would agree with me lol... As shitty as we are around here, we do at least have a slightly higher standards than folks over there on IGN forums, NeoGAF, reddit, or whatever random social media like FB or Tumblr. I'm sorry blatant attempt at sensationalism doesn't work around here.
I don't use social media. You're also just making assumptions about me, which kind of makes it look like you're looking for shortcuts to be in the right... The people who talk in these forums are a lot more sensible than those I've been finding in-game though, so there's some credit for you there nonetheless.
: > [{quoted}](name=olilopes,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QkGguRAI,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-02-12T17:33:42.058+0000) > > -6 wtf xD > If this was in-game, IRL, in a forum outside of this one, or literally ANYWHERE else, everyone would agree with me lol... No they wouldn't. This is the equivalent of being in a retail shop/restaurant/etc and yelling like an idiot and wondering why management is asking you to leave.
I just talked from experience. So that's a silly assumption you're making. I also work at a restaurant and deal with the exact type of people you're trying to label me as.
olilopes (EUW)
: PERMANENT Ban for typing 1 or 2 sentences per game arguing back at flamers?!
To be fair you guys have proven that I was wrong in claiming stuff like "90% of the community is toxic" considering more than half the people who replied to my post were simply trying (and succeeding) to make some good points.
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=olilopes,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QkGguRAI,comment-id=000700020000,timestamp=2018-02-12T17:27:53.288+0000) > > There's no such automatic system that could possibly become an "undodgeable authority" in today's age. Insulting and/or trolling people without the use of curse words or specific keywords is incredibly easy, and there's no way to create a system that can detect this without also detecting toxicity in casual harmless chatting. > They'd be better off just closing all communications and making the in-game chat become only pre-made sentences like in Hearthstone. There is a thing called machine learning. Remember, this isn't the 90s anymore. By feeding data into a machine learning algorithm, it is capable of creating new rules and test cases on its own. It's the same as how we learn and make things. Given League's chat can only be used for a limited scope of context and expression since it's entirely text based, the goal is obviously easier to achieve.
You're just calling me old :(. Look I love technology but we did not reach a point where we can create an automatic system that can actually tell if someone is really being a dick or not. Hell, even humans have trouble with that.
: By, "tell you what triggered the system", it simply boils down to telling you where you being a dick. It's pretty simple and yet difficult for those who don't think their behavior was unacceptable.
There is no such thing as an automatic system that can actually know when someone is or isn't a dick.
: And you display behavior that actually warrants a punishment.
So in your opinion would it be fair to ban someone who simply says "shut up" whenever someone in their team is flaming (AKA 95% of games)?
olilopes (EUW)
: PERMANENT Ban for typing 1 or 2 sentences per game arguing back at flamers?!
-6 wtf xD If this was in-game, IRL, in a forum outside of this one, or literally ANYWHERE else, everyone would agree with me lol...
: > [{quoted}](name=olilopes,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QkGguRAI,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-12T17:19:12.268+0000) > > If merely being reported is enough to get you banned, then my point is proven don't you think? > Every angry kid will report his team after losing the game, especially is it's someone who might say "shut up" to them while they're flaming. im just saying a majority of threads made by banned players believes its the systems fault and refuses to believe they've been reported multiple times lol :)
That just means you're discriminating me based on your experience :<
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=olilopes,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QkGguRAI,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-12T17:19:12.268+0000) > > If merely being reported is enough to get you banned, then my point is proven don&#x27;t you think? > Every angry kid will report his team after losing the game, especially if it&#x27;s someone who might say &quot;shut up&quot; to them while they&#x27;re flaming. Being reported does not automatically result in ban. I am not sure where you get that idea from. 1 report is also the same as having 9 reports (assuming all 9 other players in a 5v5 match reported you), in case you wonder. It's just a flag to trigger the system's attention.
Scuttle (NA)
: > THEN YOU CAN SIMPLY CHECK HOW IT WORKS How? > AND CHANCES ARE 90% OF THE WORST FLAMERS ARE AWARE OF THIS Uh... who? Source? This is pretty much "old man yells at cloud" at this point. The automated system isn't a problem. Browse these boards for a day and you'll see it works incredibly well. I haven't seen a wrongful ban in..... a long time. I also don't happen to see many flamers in my games. You'd think I would if they were all gaming the system and not getting banned right? Wait...
I see people flaming at each other in pretty much every game I play. If that's not the case for you then we have completely different experiences.
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=olilopes,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QkGguRAI,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-02-12T17:08:08.993+0000) > > Alright I&#x27;m going to try again and see who gets it: > IF YOU HAVE AN AUTOMATIC SYSTEM DETECTING WHAT IS BAN WORTHY AND WHAT ISN&#x27;T, THEN YOU CAN SIMPLY CHECK HOW IT WORKS AND KNOW HOW TO DODGE IT, AND CHANCES ARE 90% OF THE WORST FLAMERS ARE AWARE OF THIS. > Am I being too complicated here? That is assuming it has easy loopholes. If it doesn't, then it doesn't mean shit whether or not you are aware of what it does because you can't dodge its authority anyway. Let's just say while not perfect, Riot's system does have a pretty solid rate of banning legitimate flamers. I mean, it can even detect if someone is consistently intentionally throwing the game at the last second (albeit this one's processing period is quite long), I'm sure picking out most forms of flaming, hidden/passive or otherwise, isn't out of its reach.
There's no such automatic system that could possibly become an "undodgeable authority" in today's age. Insulting and/or trolling people without the use of curse words or specific keywords is incredibly easy, and there's no way to create a system that can detect this without also detecting toxicity in casual harmless chatting. They'd be better off just closing all communications and making the in-game chat become only pre-made sentences like in Hearthstone.
: > [{quoted}](name=olilopes,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QkGguRAI,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-12T17:09:11.651+0000) > > No. Lets be real tho. Do you think the system banned you alone, or the absurd amount of reports you've recieved lately.
If merely being reported is enough to get you banned, then my point is proven don't you think? Every angry kid will report his team after losing the game, especially if it's someone who might say "shut up" to them while they're flaming.
Scuttle (NA)
: > this is obviously a terrible system and it needs to change source needed > The actually toxic people who damage other people's gameplay can easily dodge this terrible system Also source needed. It got you, didn't it? By the way, you won't get a message if someone you reported gets punished, at least not all of the time. The system looks for consistent toxicity; one game won't usually do it. You showed, over multiple games, that you were toxic. You must be ashamed of your chat logs to not post them after constantly telling us that the system is broken. If it is, prove it.
I'm permanently banned with my game uninstalled. How exactly do you expect me to get the logs and how are you presumptuous enough to assume it's just me being "ashamed" of them?
Kaioko (NA)
: Between your original posts and the replies you're giving to people who are genuinely trying to help you, I don't even need to see the chat logs to understand why you get banned. You've gotten several warnings and have refused to change and I highly doubt you will in the future. Any further accounts you create would just result in the same eventual situations. You are correct on one thing -- being done with this game. Both the community and the game don't want you playing it. FYI -- there was has been no tribunal in 3-4 years now.
Yes of course, if you can't win with logic just try to fake some moral superiority.
: "League community is filled with the worst players. Everyone is flaming and being toxic. I am perm banned because I was flaming and being toxic, considered a part of the worst players. I wasn't the problem all along." https://giphy.com/gifs/smile-crazy-olivia-wilde-JOrOEsByfQBWg
https://media.giphy.com/media/VX5ndRNDiexEY/source.gif
: Lets say the system works as you want it to work. Are you still banned?
olilopes (EUW)
: PERMANENT Ban for typing 1 or 2 sentences per game arguing back at flamers?!
Alright I'm going to try again and see who gets it: IF YOU HAVE AN AUTOMATIC SYSTEM DETECTING WHAT IS BAN WORTHY AND WHAT ISN'T, THEN YOU CAN SIMPLY CHECK HOW IT WORKS AND KNOW HOW TO DODGE IT, AND CHANCES ARE 90% OF THE WORST FLAMERS ARE AWARE OF THIS. Am I being too complicated here?
Scuttle (NA)
: It's funny you type out a whole rant about the tribunal when your entire premise is wrong. There is no tribunal (as in, players are not judging your chat anymore and haven't for years) and the system is automated. Post your chat logs and we'll tell you what triggered the system.
Aw how very kind of you, you'll tell me what triggered the system eh? This means you can easily show me (the apparently hardcore flamer who flames so much he was permanently banned) how to avoid getting punished whilst flaming my team and being a dick all I want, you're right, that's a wonderful system which is totally going to help this game & its' community improve!.. I'm not talking rocket science here, this is obviously a terrible system and it needs to change. The actually toxic people who damage other people's gameplay can easily dodge this terrible system and keep doing what they want, whereas those who don't flame in general but eventually lose their fuse and say something in their defense will keep getting fucked, since they never had any reason to get how the system works or know how to dodge it.
Jo0o (NA)
: Tribunal's been shut down for about four years, dude. You got 14-day banned five months ago for presumably the same thing, and then barely played any games in the interim, so your account was still considered to be fresh off that ban. There's no justifiable reason to flame somebody. The expectation is that you mute people, not escalate the altercation by flaming back.
You've made the most sensible and logical reply out of everyone else. However if this is an automatic system trying to pick apart your chat logs, then that's just pathetic. All the actual flamers have to do is know how to dodge the system. Basically they're keeping all the real flamers around, whilst banning everyone who might get sick of them for a second. In other words, this game will eventually have ONLY flaming children playing in it.
SEKAI (OCE)
: Let's not just create a strawman and run your own show with it. Either post your own chatlogs here (the ban notification should provide you with about 3 exhibits most of the time for the purpose of context) without alteration, or you keep this private between you and Riot by submitting a support ticket. You don't just say what you want to say without anything backing it and expect people to just nod and follow along on some vague grounds.
I don't think you know what the term "strawman" means. Yes I do just say what I want to say, that's the definition of free speech. I also didn't make any claims that needed to be "backed". Did you use a template to write your reply or something? It seems you could post that as a reply to any topic and make it work although it would still be an equally generalized and aimless post.
: If you want to have a discussion, screenshot your reform cards. Otherwise this is pointless.
What are you talking about? If I was appealing for an unban I'd do that. I addressed a problem with this game and its' community, and the way Riot is dealing with that problem. If you're not interested in this or don't want to discuss it then replying to it is pointless.
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olilopes

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