: > [{quoted}](name=voidscaler,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VcYayMF6,comment-id=000300000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-30T13:35:17.606+0000) > > That's not even remotely true > Vayne and quinn top have been very strong picks for a LONG time, mf or Lucian mid is still around as is ezreal > Twitch (and less commonly but still a thing Quinn) are jungle picks > Hell you even sometimes see ADC "supports" > You see more ADCs in game then any other class bar none, not just because they are the ONLY compulsory class, but because they are basically the only cross lane class, mages can only go mid, those which end up in other lanes are gutted, tanks can only top, bruisers can only top, assassins with like 1 exception can only mid and that exception can only jungle > All jungle champions can only jungle > But ADCs..they are fucking everywhere > And ADC mains bitch endlessly the moment your class isn't top and absolutely compulsory in meta Okay. So I can play darius Adc. Does that mean Darius is an Adc now? Fucking no.
No cos he will get dicked on and lose lane hard Vayne top won't, vayne top is a decent pick, vayne is a top laner
Syrile (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=voidscaler,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HeZj5F7k,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-06-05T22:16:45.239+0000) > > sylas is sub 50% > hes not a monster at all, he WEAK actually, and they are nerfing btw You honestly think Sylas, a pick/ban champion at high elo or pro play is weak??? Yeah... nothing to say here.
Fuck pro play He's sub 50% in all elos but becuase 0.001%of the player see I. Fully organised play like him he must be strong right Riot needs to stop balancing around pro play
Prozzak (NA)
: Just because it is a buff for something else doesn't make it not a direct buff here.
No that does make it an indirect buff, that's what an indirect buff is If I buff steraks all steraks users are not directly buffed, but they are indirectly buffed A direct buff is if instead of buffing steraks I go to each user in turn and buff them "directly"
: I don't know why everyone just glosses over champion base stats in relation to items. There's a reason tank finished items are less efficient than damage items - It's to stop them completely running over the first 20 minutes. Here's an example. Let's say maokai is level 7 and backs with 1.4k gold. He buys 2 cloth armour and two ruby crystals. At this level (without runes), he has 1025 health and 58 armor. Adding another 400 health and 30 armour is going to make him extremely tanky to physical damage, essentially having 2.8k worth of health. Now you take a Jinx, at this point is probably level 6 (or 5) due to shared xp. At level 6 she has 70 AD, bases and spends 1.4k on a B.F, raising her AD to 110. Before buying items at that point, it takes her 24 auto attacks to kill maokai. After buying those items , it actually takes 25 autos. That doesn't seem like a drastic increase, but at this point maokai is offering a lot to the team - He's able to initiate fights, provide CC and has decent base damages to allow him to start chunking whoever he catches. He also gets tankier to all types of damage, just from buying raw HP Jinx however, who is only providing damage, is now less useful because she still can't get through maokai quickly enough to be relevant in a fight. it seems trivial at first but it does matter. Finished tank items maybe be inefficient overall, but basic tank items are very efficient when being added to base stats. Edit: I would like to see changes for tanks. I'd be happier if they had a small bump to overall efficiency for finished items and secondary items, but a reduction in efficiency for basic items. That would give them a small dip from their first back purchase, but let their first/second item spikes be more impactful.
In your example you have a maokai who has specifically built items to counter jinx's damage and he only gains 1 extra auto from it (and you haven't factored in that jinx will also be attacking faster at higher levels) Vs a magic damage dealer he is now considerably weaker as the armour does nothing Tank items SHOULD outpace damage items in terms of "how long it takes champ a to kill champ b" because tank items at their core only affect half of the incoming damage so a champion which does the other half will kill the tank "relatively" faster Combine that with damage items are self multiplicative (attack speed is a multiplier of damage which is multiplied by crit, CDR is a multiplier of ap which is multiplied by rabadons) while with tank items there are no internal multipliers, in fact tank stats get weaker as the game goes on as penetration and % health damage gets larger Tank items should be buffed, flat out
nGio (NA)
: I miss the days of AP Yi and Sion, AD Eve and 5 BF Kat, top lane Zac, and all of the other fun shit that kept the game fresh. Now it's all streamlined for LCS. The only thing bringing me back to this shitter are RGMs that don't even exist anymore.
Proplay and riots determination to balance solely around it is killing the game for everyone else
: @Riot Aatrox lines in regards to revive removal
Or they could just for once NOT balance the game 100% around pro play and not remove the revive Pro play will be the death of the game due to them only balancing around it and fuck the rest of the playerbase
: More reasons tank items suck atm.
Not only is armour only about 40% effective due to pen, but as games go on % health damage gets bigger and bigger meaning every point of health becomes less effective as well If you buy 100 health in the early game only around 5 of that is lost to % damage, in the late game you can say goodbye to closer to 35% in pure % health damage
: ok Ninja Tabi is not for defense, it's for trading in fights adc's and bruisers buy this to gimp the enemy damage with the passive over dealing more damage with Zerks. Zhonyas isn't designed to make a mage actually tank it's an oh shit button if they get caught out or cc'd before they can 100-0 someone. So both of these items are strong with armor, but they aren't tank items. Meanwhile {{item:3110}} {{item:3143}} barely affect adcs and don't deal with ad casters and the items are expensive with little payout. There are no lategame tank items that effectively counter raw attack damage, {{item:3075}} counters sustain and that's it.
Ninja tabi is literally pure defence, that's all it does
: I love how you're casually forgetting that, post damage reduction, most offensive items are much less gold efficient as well.
Damage reduction is t the norm though, most champions do not have the damage reduction as a result those gold efficiency values are normally correct Tanks are supposed to build the damage reduction and reduce the damage they take, but damage reduction is not only much more inneficient as a baseline then damage is, but there are also ways to reduce the amount of damage reduction, doubling up the inefficiency
Jaspers (EUW)
: **Attack speed** was more his identity that his lifesteal, that just made him harder to kill. But they removed it when they reworked him and turned him into Bbtrox. I'd happily have his revive over the drain tank we have. At least old Aatrox has obvious windows being able to kill them. Not it's all loaded into silly abilities and healing more than anyone else in the game. Old Aatrox never did that unless he spent time stacking passive, getting his bonus attack speed and optimising his heal part of his W, his ult never gave healing bonus. It gave attack speed. Now what do we have? I played an ARAM yesterday where I saw an Aatrox in ult do one passive auto and heal 50% of his HP, 1 auto, 50% HP... and I'd ignited him just before. Vlad has to hit like 4 people do to that with his ult. Lifesteal wasn't his thing, attack speed was, not this healing is increased by 70% crap we have. Auto attacking to heal sure, give him ONLY that. Remove the healing from everything.
I said it then and IL say it again We don't have aatrox now His rework shared basically nothing in common with his original form, they changed him from an attack speed based duelist with a revive mechanic that required thinking around, to a fat riven with a red button On top.of that "oldtrox" was an above 50% meta pick for near a year before the rework next to no patches or complaints Newtrox has been buffed or nerfed near every patch since his release, is a constant problem across the board and is up among the worst for "hated champions" when he's even remotely strong I said it back them and I will keep saying it until it happens, the aatrox rework is shit beyond compare.... Revert him
: Aatrox’s lifesteal, not his revive, is what gives him identity.
"oldtrox" was built around his revive and it was the core defining thing about him, that he could play around his ability to come back There are LOTS of other champions who heal a lot and have a lot of lifesteal, there is no other champion with a revive Removing the revive with his current kit makes him even more like just a tankier lower burst riven Imo the wateox rework is still one of the worst reworks to date (Evelyn is the worst) as it doesn't keep any of his old identity really other then "big guy with sword" and it has been far more of a problem child in terms of balance then oldtrox ever was I am absolutely fixed in.my believe they should revert the rework He has been nerfed or buffed or tweeked in near every patch since the rework, compare that to oldtrox who was a meta pick (so viable and popular) for a full year prior to the rework and received maybe 2 slight number tweaks over that entire time and next to no complaints
: Riot should start locking new champions in ranked
Agreed on new/reworked champions Vastly disagree on "sub mastery 3" I play a large list a champions and don't play all day every day, as a result I only have high mastery on a small number, am I just locked out from playing ranked then? No that doesn't make any sense
iPrawn (NA)
: Pisses me off when our autofilled ADC mains support, and our autofilled support mains ADC.
I can do you better then that I duo with a friend of mine, I top/mid and he jungle/mids We have had games where I am autofilled to jungle and he is autofilled to sup or somthing.......you know...rather then just autofill me and he gets his role Hell, we have even had a game or two where I have been autofilled jungle and he was autofilled top..... The autofill system is r%%%%%ed, I honestly believe it autofills you sometimes not because there isn't the space on the team but becuase the algorithm just says it's your time to be autofilled
: So adcs can get away building full dmg running into teams killing everyone and anyone has to build full tank just not to get oneshotted. Great design. Lemme get that FH and AH on GP because otherwise i literally just died in two autos and one Q what a champion while being entirely point and click. Its absurd how this fuckin community and riot allows adcs to be so incredibly ridiculously broken while finding excuses for it left and right. Sicne season 6 adcs have been so incredibly unbelievably broken. Except two patches in s8 the last time the game was actually fun in recent history.
I agree with you on the adc point, but Kaisa isn't the biggest issue when it comes to ADCs
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BqArsaE3,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-29T10:05:52.876+0000) > > Alternatively, you can build against what *she* builds. > > You know that no matter what build she runs she's doing magic damage on each auto, and she'll be AA reliant. {{item:3110}} and {{item:3194}} will *always* be useful against her regardless of her build, unless she's some idiot going pure AP who thinks that'll ever work worth a shit. > > You can always rely on her doing *both* physical and magic damage. The ratio is going to be the only thing that changes. Buy a bit of each then see what you need from there. yeah i tried building mr once....turns out she went crit that game and raped my face with her ad
He literally said build to counter her....don't see Kaisa and go "oh I suppose il try Mr this game" see what she's building first, does she build so or crit, counterbuild, don't blind build
NoPaxt (NA)
: Kench isn't broken in pro play or solo q. People's mindsets are broken, the refuse to improvise, adapt, and overcome. Theu'd rather whine, cry, and blame Riot instead of themselves...
Pros are literally the people best at adapting and overcoming They are the pros And tahm has been litraly pick/ban in pro play since his creation and is still no4 pick/ban after his "rework" going by this image He is objectively op in pro play He is also an abusive top laner with a very high winrate, that makes him op in solo
: Well fiddle's fear is strong that I will agree however it is not to the point of being busted. Why? Because the range is so short and his combo is indeed annoying to play against but has its counters. But the main reason why neeko is a problem is because of she lands her e she wins the trade. Imagine you are in the mid lane right and you are playing your favorite mid laner against a neeko. All she has to do is just hit her e (which travels through minions) and q and maybe an auto attack then she can withdraw and win the trade. While it does leave a window for like Leblanc or something to go in, half the time she will just run away until her combo is up. And even if you were to punish her you would still tank lots of minion damage because of her early ability to push. She is not able to be punished enough to be hard. Now I think possible solutions to this would be increase Mana on q and e (mainly e) so the neeko player has a decision to make; shove the wave or go for harassment.
Nah fiddle fear is insanely op, imo fiddle should be top of the rework list JUST to get rid of the fear He rest of his kit is relatively weak and his base stats are super low JUST because of how busted the fear is
: Veigar's E
Veigar's e has a charge up time meaning it's easier to avoid, and while the cage is very powerful in containing a champion they can still move around inside it Combine that with veigar being a much more imobile and less slippery champion it makes him much more reliant on the e to fight (it also has a much longer cd) Neekos snare is much lower cd, lands faster, lasts longer, and she is a faster champion with stealth (meaning much safer without it) One land of the e garentees a full q meaning she can throw out the two abilities and immediately back off completely safe Now I don't know how I would balance neeko if the snare was reduced in duration, as if it was she would definitely be weaker But as it is she is a VERY irritating champion to lane against and imo I much prefer seeing a veigar on the enemy team then a neeko
: > [{quoted}](name=Neekophile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VcYayMF6,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-29T20:12:41.993+0000) > > it feels pretty bad to see the only champions who do Get {{item:3025}} is{{champion:81}} . > > Its an item that needs to be buffed. but cant because one champions Breaks it. Its sad to see that you will lose this appeal on champions whom are range who actually would like to build it and dont abuse it. > > But that is the case of {{champion:81}} Q applying on hit effects. I would like to {{champion:81}} changed more than the items. > > Like make {{champion:81}} Q still applies Only Half the effects and damage(and Any effect that comes with it). And then increase the base damage on Q at later ranks. > (for example, the slow on {{item:3025}} only doing Half the damage, and Half the slow(So 15%) > > because lets face it, Any and all on hit effect items, keystones, effects. Ezreal is the first to break it. And he has the History to prove it. > Ezreal has always been the issue, and I think he should be the one to have that taken care of. > > Hell make a debuff on all {{item:3057}} the further that the sheen attack travels the less effective it becomes. This way other champions Like {{champion:41}} 's Q cant abuse it. > Then we can buff almost every Sheen item so that they are stronger for a larger amount of the cast. Like Diana, or Elise. For {{item:3100}} any tanks/Bruisers for {{item:3025}}. Ornn uses it.
Most pure tanks like it, it's just pure tanks are dead atm cos of how stupidly high damage is and how easy armour pen is to get, makes going pure tank literally pointless
Yets4240 (NA)
: Can you name a single actual time ADC was weaker than other classes as a whole? They have never been gutted into the dirt in the history of League of Legends.
They have been compulsory over the games entire life span Even during the "lol ADC in 2018" months you still saw at least 1 on every team
: > [{quoted}](name=PB4UAME,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VcYayMF6,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-30T04:58:07.812+0000) > > LMAO, more like Bot lane is a position handed to ADCs on a silver platter, where anyone else who so much as steps foot there is banned for trolling, or if actually successful, nerfed out of viability within 2 patches, even when RIOT just two weeks before explicitly made announcements and plans to "open up bot lane to diversity" after they finally fucking acknowledged that 1 of 5 positions is held captive by 1 of 13 sub-classes of champions. Funny. Because any time an adc is played in any other role they get gutted into the dirt sooooooo
That's not even remotely true Vayne and quinn top have been very strong picks for a LONG time, mf or Lucian mid is still around as is ezreal Twitch (and less commonly but still a thing Quinn) are jungle picks Hell you even sometimes see ADC "supports" You see more ADCs in game then any other class bar none, not just because they are the ONLY compulsory class, but because they are basically the only cross lane class, mages can only go mid, those which end up in other lanes are gutted, tanks can only top, bruisers can only top, assassins with like 1 exception can only mid and that exception can only jungle All jungle champions can only jungle But ADCs..they are fucking everywhere And ADC mains bitch endlessly the moment your class isn't top and absolutely compulsory in meta
: changes that need to be made 10 new tank items to break even with damage items, 4 mr, 4 armor, 2 only health, item pool for tanks is a complete joke at the current and with the current mr and armor items the health can stay the same but the armor and mr stat needs to be buffed majorly the amount of damage/ true damage in this game is a joke tanks last only seconds in fights losing the definition of tank.
I don't think the armour values need to go up, I think pen needs to go down There needs to be an actual sacrifice to going armour pen (which at the moment there isnt, the only pen item that is bad if the target isn't stacking resistance is void staff, all the others are worth it Vs no armour targets making the pen just free) Cleaver needs to be reworked, is it a generic all bruisers get item, or is it a penetrstion item, it shouldn't be both Conq needs to be reworked, is it a generic damage boost, or is it true damage to deal with tanks, it should NOT be both Lethality values NEED to go down full stop (you can literally ignore like 70armour with lethality alone at the moment)
: Still AD is not a big problem for tanks , the real deal is AP dammage compared to magic resist , the comparison is not even fair , i mean a mage or ap asassin can easy get 600 AP with full magic pen , and they all have huge base dammage and AP rtios on theyr kits . i have few videos show how its painnfull for tanks to deal with AP champs , like a time where i was killed by a 2-7 malzahar befor i get time to land one auto attack onhim , while i had 170 MR with sterak etc
Magic damage is not the issue at all The most Mr pen a mage can get is 33+35% and the percent comes with a very poorly stated item that most mages don't want and will only buy if more them one enemy is stacking Mr (imo that's the way pen Should work) While as has conq doing true damage, cleaver on 90%of bruisers and half the ADCs giving 30% pen (cleaver is over 100%gold efficient WITHOUT it's shred passive) a max lethality of somthing like 60, true damage on half the ad champs in the game, yi vayne doors camille etc etc(or %health and armour shred in the other half, Vi j4 kled Darius etc etc etc) and just overall high consists t damage to boot with crits and the like Of I'm against a full ap team 300mr will keep me tanking for a long time, against a full ad team I can literally be an 800 armour rammus and j will still feel like wet paper because of just how much damage ignores armour
: > [{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6c0L0ul0,comment-id=00000002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-28T18:49:35.077+0000) > > Last I checked AP =/= AD in a 1 to 1 ratio lol. Still I fail to see your point is thier a problem right now iwth damge yes. How ever you can buld a tank that can some waht surive in a team fight. Is it harder to do sure. But it is possible.
As a 250 armour tank Vs a full ad team only 1.5-2 items in (I had iceborn thronmail tabi) I died in 2.5 seconds None of them were "tank killers" and the most fed was only half an item ahead of me Damage is far to high at the moment, tanks DON'T tank, they last half a second longer and do less
: In order to do good with Riven, u gotta spend a lot of time and u need to get used to pla.... What the fuck am i talking about, the champ is r%%%%%edly broken and deserves to be hit with a nerf hammer. She's literally my permaban every single game. Fuck her. That champ literally has EVERYTHING that you need. I mean, Kench cannot really hardcarry a game where bot went 0/7 each, he's just a meatshield past 20 minutes and gets outscaled, still is a huge problem early. But Riven will carry as soon as she gets 3-4 kills during the laning phase (which is not hard at all nowadays with her). She really needs a nerf, but not a "Movement speed 340 -> 335" kind of nerf. Her damage or cooldowns have to be nerfed. And that shield has to have a bit smaller AD ratio, it's ridiculous. She's strong early, mid and late game. And whenever i got killed by Riven i never thought "Wow, this dude has outplayed me, good job" instead i was like "What the fuck is this bullshit, why is that shield up every 3 seconds and why can't i move while being oneshot by BoxBox wannabees".
See imo her damage is stupidly high, bit as a fight carry it should be Her issue is she has literally no cooldowns She has no downtime at all as her q cooldown with CDR is so rediculously low she literally always has it up, meaning she has no moment of weakness to exploit and can permanently be on the aggressive Of you go toe to toe with a riven in a fight, you have lost that fight. O matter what character you are, because it's 8 seconds untile your cooldowns are back, but she has hers instantly Imo she needs the cooldwon buff she got on her q reverted, maybe even an extra 2 seconds on top of that
: why some players using items that deal magic damage to champions that don't deal any of it.
Rageblade is baught by champions with on hit effects (vayne yi etc) as it is a damage multiplier to those abilities The magic damage it does is very very secondary and could probably be removed and it would make no difference to who buys it Wits end is baught for a number of reasons, it gives a lot of good defensive stats, with a lot of Mr and the life gain it's very good for fighting consistent magic damage dealers Additionally, pure Phys damage characters will often struggle Vs tanks, xin does pure physical damage so against an 800 armour rammus he won't do much, but that rammus won't have anywhere near as much Mr, so the magic damage dealt by wits will do a lot more damage then an equivalent amount of ad on top of the defensive stats being good in that case Lastly it's baught by champions like Yi who already have/want rageblade as again, the rageblade is a damage multiplier to "on hit" effects but not to strict "auto attack damage" meaning for champions with a rageblade on hit damage is often worth more then ad meaning the damage from items like wits end becomes very powerful Champions aren't restricted to doing a single type of damage, and because of rageblade and other on hit effects, high attack speed champions benefit highly from doing both as it makes them very difficult to build against
Jaspers (EUW)
: He's an AP fighter right? Usually fighters build a damage item, say BC or TF, then into either a defensive damage item like Sterak's or Tiamat then pure defence, with SP, Deadman's, stuff like that. Sylas current build is pure AP. Nothing like the AD fighters that exist. Unreal healing with AP scaling, dash shield, area of effect slow, area of effect passive autos, every ability works as an auto reset. Not only that in his ult he is given compensation in the form of an AP scaling if the ability has no AP value. He makes 200% more use of Renekton's or Trundle's ults as they have AP scalings but they don't build AP, yet he takes Caitlyn's and it adds an AP scaling to it to compensate him. Here's what I'd do to change him plus an extra. 1) Make him about level Q first for waveclear and poke (should be already but give it better base, less scaling). 2) Change his heal to a % Max HP. He's a fighter right? Darius, Illaoi and Gragas healing is based on % HP, whether missing or max. This will encourage him to build HP as a fighter instead of his current AP melee mage. 3) Reduce the ult stealing to 250% cooldown of the stolen ult. Make him about stealing ults at the right time and using them at the right time, not oneshotting an ADC with his base abilities, that's an assassin. 4) Introduce a new AP fighter item: {{item:3101}} + {{item:3067}} + {{item:3113}} + 650g = An item with 50AP, 300hp, 40% attackspeed, 5% movement, 20% CDR and Wit's end's old passive. Make it about long drawn out fights, not burst.
He builds pure ap because ap "fighter" items don't exist Look at as, you have trim, streaks, cleaver, DD, spear, the two hydras Compare this to the ap "fighter" list which is basically protobelt and that's it, every other ap item is designed for either burst or poke mages with nothing good for s prolonged fighter type playstyle As a result champions who are designed for that prolonged fight CAN'T build the right items and are forced to build pure assassin and be balanced around that Diana has the same issue They don't need to change his kit They need to rework the pile of trash that are the ap items, there's more fucking option in which 20% CDR ap mana item you go then there is in actual builds, 9/10 builds are just "do I go ludens into morello into zhonya or GLP into morello into zhonya?"
: > [{quoted}](name=CPU Lyrica,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hfNufnUH,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-06-11T06:13:45.434+0000) > > Sylas's main problem is that he DOESNT HAVE ITEMS. There aren't Enough AP-Bruiser items, so sylas needs to survive via burst and rediculous healing (Dianna also has a similar issue) except sylas goes proto and lich into deathcap and melts people
Thats the point, ap bruiser items don't exist so he's forced to build assassin and because of his slower damage pattern is also forced to be overtuned to compensate
Zardo (NA)
: You forgot sylas, the mobile bruiser assassin mage with mobility, shielding, cc, healing, burst, dps, and the ability to use ultimates better than most champions can use their own.
Tbh sylas isn't anywhere near as bad mobility wise as his one mobility ability is long cd and conditional on a skillshot, compared to riven or irelia who have a dozen dashes a second he's practically stationary And he needs the shield+heal because he's supposed to be a bruiser but the ap bruiser items don't exist so his kit is overtuned to compensate
: D cap isnt an assassin item nor is Gunblade One is a win more mage item and the other is a hybrid sustain item.
Gumblade is absolutely an assassin item It's a hybrid assassin item, but it only offers a huge amount of flat damage and a long cd burst damage active, it is ONLY built on champions who are looking to one rotation burst their targets
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: bs, complete bs ekko and fizz can 100-0 with mr pen boots + protobelt, ap assassins do not lack of items not only that but ap assassin items are more abused than ad assassin items protobelt turns a simple mage like lissandra/sylas who should not be assassins, into assassins just because they can 100-0 you with it
He's not saying ap items aren't strong, they are He's saying there is a very limited selection to choose from, and of that selection most are just generic mage items anyway A fix will by spec, proto lich, morello But so will a sylas (who's arguably a bruiser not an assassin) Lissandra will buy sorc proto and morello, she's not even close to an assassin on design Ahri will build sorc morello and can go lich Brands and luxes and xeraths will build sorc and morello Fucking ap naut will go sorc proto Ap items can be very powerful But they are VERY generic with most items being built byost champions While with as items they have much more of a class distinction There ARE assassin items which a bruiser or ADC (with few exceptions) will not buy There are bruiser items which an assassin will not get Hell there are bruiser items which not all bruisers get And items have a lot more specialisation in how you can build, while ap items are incredibly generic "fits all" in design There is a reason 9/10 ap characters end up with a zhonyas
: There are AP assassins out there, I never denied that, but itemization for them is quite limited. AD assassins have three items which enhance their playstyle by offering synergizing passives or actives {{item:3147}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3814}}. AP assassins have to make do with normal mage items, which can certainly work, but from my experience feels lacking compared to their AD counterparts. However, you're right. After looking at the numbers, the ratio of AD to AP assassins is way less skewed than I originally thought.
The ap item list is a joke There are no good "bruiser" ap items and a REALLY limited selection of "assassin" items Pretty much all ap characters build basically the same because they have such a generic pool to build they can't specialise unlike as characters that can
: jax actually is. the rest i agree with tho lol
: Thresh Passive Question
It never changes, it's a fixed value The reason it shows is a weird hold over from his original design in which the souls had diminishing returns and every soul was worth less than the previous one But they changed that a long time ago but for some reason never changed the tooltip
Aimléss (NA)
: I beg to differ. Lookin' at you top laners...
as a midlaner i can say safely 4/5 of the time the lane which loses the game is bot (mine or theirs) bot is far to influential and adcs are as busted as they have always been
Syrile (NA)
: "Aatrox is OP, better rework Ryze"
sylas is sub 50% hes not a monster at all, he WEAK actually, and they are nerfing btw
: > [{quoted}](name=voidscaler,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nwlxI15L,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-06-04T11:02:48.755+0000) > > yes in big nubmers they cancel each other out > thats not the point > the point is that it never feels like you lost fairly, in 9/10 games it feels like you lost because some random dice was rolled and they have a d3 on their team in a gold game for reasons you just dont understand > thats what the coinflip game means > flip a coin 1000 times and you will get 500 heads and 500 tails.....but it doesnt feel like you mattered to the outcome, it was just a coinflip it's called statistics and math regardless of how angry and frustrated you are that 1+1 =2 it will never change as i said the only variable is you and that contribution is limited all you have to do is make sure that you win the games that are supposed to be in your favor you tilting complaining flaming afking only means that you will lose games that you should have won if you played well climbing is mostly mental and consistency if you have this you will gradually improve in macro and micro and gradually climb to high elos you have to understand that you are playing a 5v5 game and the same rules apply for all 10 players not just you the sooner you focus only on yourself the sooner you will start to climb
i think you missunderstand what im saying a bit everyone knows that every game of league IS essentially a 50/50 chance to win, its the inherant nature of the game the issue people have, and why people call it the "coinflip" is becuase in previous metas it felt like the loss/win was because of you the player doing somthing wrong/right this meta because it is so much more burst, because there it seems like there are more autofills around, because it seems like there are more afks and trolls around this meta it doesnt feel like the loss/wins are on you, it feels like at the start of every game a coin is just tossed and that decides the game yes you can still influence it, and thats why good players will rise faster but it FEELS random, it doesnt feel good when in 10 games 2 had afks and 4 had autofilled people who got stomped, there was no onus on you in those games, they were decided from the get go by pure random chance thats what the "coinflip" means, it means there is so many things which can decide games before they even start which you as the player have litraly no control over, when you lose a "coinflip" game it isnt fun....there was nothing you could do, when you win....it isnt fun, there was nothing THEY could do its about how the game feels in the mind of the player a game like poker is entirely chance, but there is skill involved the player can manipulate now image a game of poker where ever 3 hands someone at random is just given a straight flush right off the abt, sure its random, its as likely to be you as anyone else, but you lose that round and there there was no skillfull play you could do to overcome the guy witha straight flush off the top
: so you're telling me ahri dosent have innate self healing? akali dosent get healing from gunblade?
they do but NOWHERE near to the extent that an adc with lifesteal will have ahri only heals for a set amount eveyr 3 abilities, she cant "sustain" her healing, akali (or any gunblade champ) can sustain healing but gunblade does reduced healing from aoe and she will have slower (and lower damage) autos meaning her actual consistant healing is significantly lower then an adc with botrk will have lifesteal is an incredibly strong and INCREDIBLY reliable mechanic becuase they have such easy life recovery, they get lower life overall
: Sounds to me like they should do it like they do lux and split the shield between both casts, tbh. It fits him thematically anyway - he stole magic from lux.
that would be better then the full shield on his E2 but it would still make him overly reliant on the E2 and would make the ability more overloaded then it is already
Leetri (EUW)
: Meanwhile people are having a ton of success playing Taric/Sona bot with no ADC in sight, so much so that people want Riot to nerf support items again. But I guess that doesn't count since that doesn't fit the narrative.
i have litraly never seen a taric+sona bot nor ever heard of it being done succesfull, you claim people are complaining about it but this comment is the first i have ever heard it mentioned as more then a meme
: > [{quoted}](name=voidscaler,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bdquHXpE,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-03T15:32:48.916+0000) > > lee sin e is an aoe damage slow and vision > his q is a ranged skillshot and a long range dash targeted dash which does execute damage > his w is a dash a shield on him, a shield on his target and lifesteal AND one of the few sources of spellvamp left in the game > his ult is a high damage teamwide targeted cc that does damage based of the targets health to all NON target characters > his passive is an autoattack boost and energy regen > > its REALLY overloaded > > if lee sin isnt enough then what about nidalee? she has a million effects on her kit but nowhere ever calls her overloaded because they are spread over 6 abilities instead of 3 > > Sylas e has a fair few effects yes, its 2 dashes, damage a self shield and a short cc thats a LOT > but its split over 2 abilities and not all crammed into one so its not ACTUALLY overloaded > if the shield is moved to the E2 then the E2 IS overloaded because it will have so many effects all placed into one ability lmao by that logic none of lee sin's kit is actually overloaded because everything is spread between Q2, W2, E2 (which is a completely dumb argument tbh) Lee sin's kit is not even overloaded by today's standards, it just has a bunch of mobility but he's honestly very lackluster nowdays.
that first part "none of lee sin's kit is actually overloaded" is EXACTLY my point the kit IS oveloaded by the numbers, it does a vast amount of things BUT because it is spread over a larger number of abilities it doesnt actually PLAY nor feel overloaded thats the case with sylas E, it IS overloaded, but its a 2 cast ability with its effects spread evenly over those two casts, neither cast itself is overloaded BUT by moving the shield onto the E2 it becomes overloaded because its 1 "cast" which triggers so many different effects
: Did all the player base climb all of the sudden during ONE SEASON ?
were you not aware of the way they changed the leagues? they added in grand master and split up diamond +plat a bit to spread out the % in the leagues its not that players jumped, you are just "effectivly" in a lower rank then you were before
Kaisha (NA)
: The champ is horribly designed and pure cancer. She's broken, not op, not up, just straight up broken. Half the time she utterly useless, the other half horribly op. The problem is neither she, nor the players she's playing against, decide which side of the toxic coin she gets. If some OP carry on the other team (probably in a completely other lane) gets fed then GG and now you have River or Darius or whatever 2v5ing the entire and completely uncounterable. And of course if no one gets fed then by lvl 12 you can forget she exists and its now a 4v5. She is the epitome of everything wrong with League wrapped up.
mate late game yuumi is WHY she is broken shes INSANE lane game effectivly functioning as both a 25% damage boost on the carry of her choosing, but a movespeeds boost, a health boost (heal and shield) and a snare on demand if things get hairy late game yuumi turns a that "4v5" into a 1v9 cos of how absurd she makes the guy shes sitting on
: Its scary unless you are Lux or Xerath who can just blast the monster away with their energy beams.
the monster who can just spellshield and ignore your energy beams?
: the theory of big numbers means that those cancel each other out with you being the only factor you can influence the most your win rate is decided only by your own performance this means that you can't have an absurd high win rate unless you are miles ahead of everyone in the game in terms of knowledge and mechanics (this is why tf blade gets challenger accounts from unranked in a few weeks) but even if you see his accounts by the time he reaches high challenger his win rate starts to even out towards 50% his euw rank 1 climb was with 67% win rate his na rank 1 account that kept for 2 years was with 55% win rate if you notice that even an amazing soloq player can't have an absurd win rate around his skill level in a balanced working elo system any player should have 50-55%win rate based only on their consistency in game if you are really consistent you can go above 55% barely this is proven with every account in challenger that has 500+ games only very very few accounts with such amount of games have above 55% and even if they do they are 56 or 57% This is only because your own performance is responsible for 20% of your games if you are a 4fun player you will have 50% if you troll you will have less than 50% if you are consistently good you will have more
yes in big nubmers they cancel each other out thats not the point the point is that it never feels like you lost fairly, in 9/10 games it feels like you lost because some random dice was rolled and they have a d3 on their team in a gold game for reasons you just dont understand thats what the coinflip game means flip a coin 1000 times and you will get 500 heads and 500 tails.....but it doesnt feel like you mattered to the outcome, it was just a coinflip
: Nah games aren't coinflips. It simply comes down to how good you are as an individual player. If you are good enough to win games, then you'll win enough to consistently climb. If you aren't better than your rank, you'll be hardstuck and think every game is a coinflip simply because you aren't better than your elo and can't impact the game enough to win.
i had a game with a 23% winrate (30 game) volibear in gold we lost.... tell me that wasnt a coinflip who got him?
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=NA Darklarik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qm4E3UiM,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-02T22:07:07.363+0000) > > Just goes to show > 1. How useless Tanks are > 2. How useless defenses are compared to building damage. Defense is Expensive, and weak. > > Been playin since Season 1 and in earlier seasons (1-5) mostly if ever i was in an full AD team id think "Fuck, lategame where screwed if they build armor", or if against "Hey team, hold out till late, build some armor, and they will be useless" > > Now a days that means squat. Thinking and skill expression is dead. Its a URF headbutt competition of who has the most damage and it just sucks. "Defense is expensive" Hahaha good one. {{item:3143}} {{item:3075}} - 2900 {{item:3110}} - 2700 {{item:3047}} - 1100 {{item:3193}} - 2500 {{item:3800}} - 2650 {{item:3068}} - 2750 {{item:3742}} - 2900 {{item:3194}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3083}} - 2800 Tank item components are also dirt cheap compared to things like B.F Sword and Oblivion Orb. The only defensive item I'd say is "expensive" is Abyssal Mask.   Meanwhile... Popular offense items.... {{item:3146}} - 3400 {{item:3124}} - 3100 {{item:3153}} - 3300 {{item:3036}} {{item:3033}} - 2800 {{item:3147}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3814}} - 2900 {{item:3031}} - 3400 {{item:3508}} - 3200 {{item:3074}} {{item:3748}} - 3500 {{item:3078}} - 3733 {{item:3089}} - 3600 {{item:3812}} - 3500 {{item:3071}} - 3000 {{item:3285}} - 3200 {{item:3003}} - 3100 {{item:3100}} - 3200 {{item:3115}} - 3000 {{item:3091}} - 2900 {{item:3165}} - 3000 The only offense items that are cheaper are Zeal upgrades, Protobelt and Void Staff.
i think this is a misscomunication on both sides tank items are cheaper then non tank BUT they are "effectivly" more expensive tank items tend to have MUCH lower cost effectivness then non tank items, with things like cleaver being over 100% cost efficient WITHOUT its unique passives, while sunfire is like 65% cost efficient without the passive combine that with the fact that armour pen and true damage exist and that armour and mr by definition is only "50%" efficient from the getgo (because it only affects half of the incoming damage) as the game goes on the relative cost effectivness of tank items goes down and down and down 1 point of armour at minute 30 is worth MUUUCH less then 1 point of armour at minute 10, but it costs the same, 1 point of ad at minute 30 adds the exact same amount of damage as it would at minute 10 this means that while tank items are "cheap" they are massivly overpriced for the stats they actually give you
: and ap items gives defensive stats for god knows why.
theres actually a very simple reason for that auto attackers already have sustain/protection ap characters dont auto attackers have lifesteal and higher movement speed and are more likely to have dashes/escapes of some sort ap characters tend to not have them and therefore need to be able to soak up more "random" damage, as a resuly a lot of the standard ap items have a small amount of health on them
: Do you have specific examples of this happening without the full-AD team being at twice the kills of the armor-stacking team?
well i used to be a tank player, but i stopped about a year ago because it felt like no matter how ahead i pretty much every team i ever went against would have at least one character that would kill me in 3 seconds despite my 3k health and 300 armour if you get that lucky game where the enemy adc falls behind hard or isnt a late game scaler/tank killer (ala jhin) and they dont really have much more then burst mages on the rest of their team then yeah a tank will fucking destroy and be near unkillable the problem is the disparity a jhin will be trash for killing a full armoured up tank, or a rek sai or kha, but if they have a jinx or darius or wukong, or god forbid a twitch or vayne your armour is litraly pointless as most of their damage just ignores it, or in the case of jinx they do so much damage and move so fast it doesnt matter
: > Why is he 3x a durable as me but does more damage That is what the adc mains have been claiming since season 6 and they still claim that.
meanwhile an adc is still complusory on every team (often youl have more then 1 as well) somthing litraly no other character type is
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