Kazekiba (NA)
: Grievous wounds lets him be picked into Darius aatrox and maokai easier. It helps Fiora be less oppressive too, although not much since his only shield is on a high cd and cant be used in melee range,but if Fiora roams Kled can follow and force her to fight his giant shield + grievous wounds, negating huge amounts of value from Fioras vitals passive.
I like grevious wounds on kled. BUT, there would be nothing worse than riot deciding to nerf his dmg or cooldowns, and essentialy ruin the champ, all because of them adding grev wounds. I would much rather see no buff, than riots poor way of nerfing
LissXsis (EUW)
: I think Liss should just get fully reverted, especially her passive. A rework is supposed to add something to a kit, but Liss's one just took power from her main kit and put it on a passive skill, that we can't even control. Then her main kit got nerfed several times, until Lissandra's whole kit became "press R and spawn passives". I think that it's not healthy for the champion and the game overall when a champion's main job gets reduced to existing and spawning passives. The w change, that made it go center-to-center instead of edge-to-edge, is something I don't understand either. Old w allowed you to kite and to display skill while dodging spells. The new w just forces you to stay back until you know you can outstat the enemy you wanna engage on, especially on champions with large hitboxes. I gotta admit, I think, that making the E visible through walls was a good change that adds counterplay against her and that no champion should be able to blink over a large wall without an indicator or any kind of warning. Liss used to be one of the most flexible champions. You could play TP or ignite, could take Electrocute, Aery, Comet, Aftershock, even Klepto. You could be flexible in itemization. You could lane bully, splitpush or teamfight. But Liss was never too strong in either role and did not go above 50% winrate until Aftershock came up as a counter to the Irelia, Yasuo and LeBlanc meta. Now with the removed scalings and mana passive you are forced to take aftershock to survive lane. You can barely punish bad players in lane because you are missing both damage and mana. You build Luden's to have enough mana, then get magic pen to abuse your passive dmg and hope you win the game because you won't be useful after that because of the removed scalings. You can't properly splitpush anymore because you run out of mana way too fast and your passive requires you to be in teamfight early. Liss's playstyle is very one-dimensional since the rework which shows how unhealthy the passive is. Aftershock with Corrupting Pot and Dark Seal is a problem I won't talk about because others have done it in this thread and because I personally think, it's not what lead to Lissandra's fall. To sum it up: I think the whole rework was a mistake and is a disaster in terms of balance and in terms of good champ design (except for the E visibility change). Liss should be reverted to her old state, especially since Aftershock and Dark Seal got nerfed and the assassin meta has passed, so she wouldn't be too strong in her old state.
I agree, at least her q would be ok again. Im fine with a revert.
: > [{quoted}](name=0cool1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y8tFtnn0,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-07-26T23:05:46.727+0000) > > Jimmy, if you watch that vid (with chaseshaco, pinkward etc.), those are high level players. They understand the champ more than most, as they play them for a living. Also i looked up your account, 4 games on record of playing the champ. I would recommend playing him a once or twice, and come back and share with us if you felt he was strong. I feel you'd perhaps change your tune. > > Also im going to have to disagree with your other statements, a bug fix wont fix his state, and no he does not beat "half of all jg's". He doesn't out assassinate champs like eve or blue kayn, nor have sustain like lee/yi/kayn/xinxao, he doesn't scale (actually the opposite), and I could go on. Those 4 games were probably URF, or me doing a shaco support game, I don't enjoy his playstyle so he could have 100% win rate and I still wouldnt play him, I don't say hes a strong champion, I say hes a viable champion who does see play/success Yes bug fixes can absolutely fix a state, he has so many that if they were fixed he wouldn't break on people and his box/AI would work properly, so that would boost his win rate since no more deaths/loses due to bugging When I said he would beat half of all jg's, I was talking about his win/playrate, like I was talking about before, no he dones't assassinate like best assassins in game, very few do thats why they're the best, and no he doesn't have the sustain that high sustain jgs have, that's not his kit (Bad comparisons) There are other jg's out there with lower winrates AND play rates than shaco but no one seem's to care to buff them, so I don't think a very viable champion deserves a buff over dead ones
His box AI could be fixed, but that doesnt mean they they are strong/good. They are like unreliable CC, since they can be destroyed before they activate, and they only output significant damage if the enemy stays within their short range. Also they scale with AP, so ad shaco doesn't benefit. When you said stated those were "bad comparisons", what would be a good comparison? Those are all junglers, and shaco is designed as a jungler. I never brought up his "kit", but it needs work. Also just because riot doesnt buff/nerf champs like they should, doesn't mean you just ignore the issue.
: > [{quoted}](name=0cool1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y8tFtnn0,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-07-26T22:45:21.639+0000) > > SuicidePlank, you seem to be misunderstanding the problem. The issue is not "other assassins", but shaco from a gameplay/balance perspective. > If we discuss individual assassins, of course there's an assassin out there that could use a nerf, but nerfing "all assasins" because of 1-2 champs is like nerfing all armor pen items because vayne's armor shred is disgusting. Doesn't make sense right? > Yes, your Argument doesn't make sense, because Vayne doesn't shred armor, she plain ignores it with her %HP True DMG. Lol. > Shaco, can not perform on par with neither his assassin counterparts, nor his jungle counterparts. Im not going to reinvent the wheel, Look at grandmastershaco's points, and look at this while considering "does shaco need a buff". > Shaco doens't need buffs, he needs power shifted from his Q to his kit. > I can see from your responses to GMS that you dont really care/like for shaco, but that does not mean the champ shouldn't be available for others as a valid champ. He does need help, as he does not assasinate well, he sucks both full ad and full ap, and his kit has problems. He shouldn't be viable, because he is just frustrating to play against. Every Assassin needs across the boards nerfs, period. Then you can add power onto the nerfed Champs again. Shacos numbers can't be tweaked, because then he starts instagibbing people again from 100-0 because he got 2 kills. > > Youve got shaco master/challenger players telling you he sucks, even IwillDominate when he plays shaco states the champ sucks. Not going to question your credentials, but something to consider. IWD crys about literally everything. He is the Jungle equivalent of hashinshin. And a lot of mains say that about their champions. Riven Mains still cry that Riven is weak, Zed is weak (just look at LL Stylish if we are going to quote known Content Creators) etc. You can shift his power, but when he gets buffed in any patch, he will be directly nerfed in the patch after.
Bad wording on the Vayne Bit, but you got the point ( i hope). You stated: " Shaco doens't need buffs, he needs power shifted from his Q to his kit.". The hell, his Q is his kit bud. His w is a crappy form of CC/warding, His e is plain terrible, and his ult is under powered (does 50 percent dmg), and does not help him assassinate. And how are you going to take power away from his Q? Make his invis shorter? make him crit for less than normal? remove it? Your statement doesn't even mention where in his kit to add to. What kind of nerf are we talking for his q "He shouldn't be viable because he is just frustrating to play against.", is a terrible argument point. Any enemy adc who gets ahead is frustrating to play against. Any high damage champ getting ahead is frustrating to play against, tanks that cant be killed are frustrating to play against. Also shaco ain't insta gibbing anyone where he's at. Finally what does crying have to do with this? The guy is good at jungle, he knows the game, and he (among others) think the champ sucks. You cant prove a claim is false, simply by saying people whine a lot. Give me a clip of some pro saying shaco is busted, then that (could) help your argument.
: Don't let anyone tell you that a well-made and thought out post isn't appreciated, because trust me it is. However, these kind of posts dedicated to why a particular champion is in a bad spot are kind of..pointless? I say this because there are plenty of champions in bad spots, who need some kind of buffs or otherwise. There are plenty of dedicated mains to each and every one of them. I've honestly thought for a while that one pre season should just be dedicated to a massive rebalance, because so many champions have their own individual problems that all need addressing, and all the people who main said champions (Let's be completely honest here) are biased because they love that champion.
I wouldn't say pointless (unless if your referring to how riot gives zero cares about community opinion). If there's a problem, and you don't bring it to the attention of others, they will not even know the problem is there.
: I know I'm late to state shaco is fine l2p, so instead I'll say something else Shaco see's more play that a chunk of other junglers and see's higher win rates than the majority of all jgs (This isn't counting like iron/challenger since those are waaay off) I don't believe he needs a single buff currently, the only thing they should focus on him would be the bug fixes since bugs can increase/decrease win rates like buffs/nerfs can If bugs weren't taken into consideration, Shaco would be better than over half of all jg's, but since bugs do matter they needs to fix those before they touch any of his numbers, his current state is not even remotely close to the realm of needing buffs
Jimmy, if you watch that vid (with chaseshaco, pinkward etc.), those are high level players. They understand the champ more than most, as they play them for a living. Also i looked up your account, 4 games on record of playing the champ. I would recommend playing him a once or twice, and come back and share with us if you felt he was strong. I feel you'd perhaps change your tune. Also im going to have to disagree with your other statements, a bug fix wont fix his state, and no he does not beat "half of all jg's". He doesn't out assassinate champs like eve or blue kayn, nor have sustain like lee/yi/kayn/xinxao, he doesn't scale (actually the opposite), and I could go on.
: How about we just nerf other Assassins. Buffing everything over and over to compete with each other results in this Seasons shit.
SuicidePlank, you seem to be misunderstanding the problem. The issue is not "other assassins", but shaco from a gameplay/balance perspective. If we discuss individual assassins, of course there's an assassin out there that could use a nerf, but nerfing "all assasins" because of 1-2 champs is like nerfing all armor pen items because vayne's armor shred is disgusting. Doesn't make sense right? Shaco, can not perform on par with neither his assassin counterparts, nor his jungle counterparts. Im not going to reinvent the wheel, Look at grandmastershaco's points, and look at this while considering "does shaco need a buff". I can see from your responses to GMS that you dont really care/like for shaco, but that does not mean the champ shouldn't be available for others as a valid champ. He does need help, as he does not assasinate well, he sucks both full ad and full ap, and his kit has problems. Youve got shaco master/challenger players telling you he sucks, even IwillDominate when he plays shaco states the champ sucks. Not going to question your credentials, but something to consider.
: So why exactly do people play Ranked when drunk?
Not fun for you, cause your not drinking silly :)
0cool1 (NA)
: Lissandra request (PLS READ)
Glad that im not the only one thinking these things. I almost wish there was 1 riot DEV per champ, so we'd have someone with actual power to fight for those less than meta champs. Thank you for the comments.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Made it back to honor 2 :D
Wait since when did people care about honor...
: Basically the most hated designer because he's not afraid to go out there with kit designs.. yeah some of them are annoying like yasuo. But let's focus on the fact the he's coming up with new ideas rather than the usual 3 hit passive or auto attack reset with Max hp damage
I down voted you for 2 reasons, "not being afraid to go out there with kit designs" is not what he does, making a champ like Yasuo who needs 2 items for full crit is . Also I don't like your name.
: She doesn't get vision of you. But she gets vision of the dropped summoner. She can't see your champ, but she knows where your champ is.
You know that knowing where someone is can be just as important as seeing them.. right?
: I agree with 1 and 3, but I wouldn't say E rewards you for missing. I think it's intended to be more for cutting off escape paths and such when ganking or fighting in the jung.
Nah maybe not rewards, Just says "you don't need to hit the skill-shot, you can just block the whole path instead since you missed"
jo9901 (NA)
: I've played her a bit and i can say, in my opinion, that she isn't THAT op. She does need some balancing, but a good chunk of her damage comes from her q. her q can be dodged with a little effort half the time. And keep in mind that she isn't even out yet, so chill with the call for nerfs this prematurely.
Um. Yeah you probably just don't play her well, or the opponents didn't play her well. Play enough games and then she will rip you a new one :/
bufydo (EUNE)
: Nerf Zoe
The fact that Zoe was released as is makes me pretty angry at riot. The fact that this even got shipped out as is, you mean to tell me not one of the testers didn't see the damage she did. Also her kit? You gave her a 2 second stun that if you shoot over terrain it goes exponentially farther? And then if you miss it makes an aoe stun trap for more opportunities to stun? her q reaches astronomical (lol) ranges? I could complain more about her w but its unique i guess. Guess i just gota ban her regardless until the one smart one at riot decides "WOW WE MADE A MISTAKE". Oh wait, this happens everytime except orn.

0cool1

Level 201 (NA)
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