: 70% win rate ///../............ wow //.../. I do not know in which universe you live, but obviously not in this one, it doesn’t matter how much you play this game, whether you are the admin (or I noticed that you’re a gag in every post), but in general and in general you’re In principle, you do not know the game from the word, it’s like people who have created something, but they don’t understand how it should work or how it works at a given time. Please do not write anything else here, there is no point in you, you just fit into each post using your "super" knowledge about this game.
> [{quoted}](name=Sweaty Korean,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vo2RIBka,comment-id=000400000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-11T07:40:11.153+0000) > > 70% win rate ///../............ wow //.../. I do not know in which universe you live, but obviously not in this one, it doesn’t matter how much you play this game, whether you are the admin (or I noticed that you’re a gag in every post), but in general and in general you’re In principle, you do not know the game from the word, it’s like people who have created something, but they don’t understand how it should work or how it works at a given time. > Please do not write anything else here, there is no point in you, you just fit into each post using your "super" knowledge about this game. In other words you have no argument against anything I said and had to try to use adhominems instead. Listen, I don't know what happened in your last game to upset you but it's not my problem. And take your time when you flame someone so that you can sling mud instead of posting word salads.
Exin0 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gj07TnzW,comment-id=0014000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-10T15:47:47.334+0000) > > Yes, winrates in different brackets suggest things like that as well. > > Azir, Ryze and Cass get hinted at with the difficulty to get a certain threshold of value, and this is also reflected in the winrates of mains vs new azir, ryzes and cass players respectively. > > You also have champions, who are notoriously difficult to optimize, like gangplank with his sensitive positioning, decision making and phantom barrel combos but when Gangplank is In, he does well in bronze, silver, dips between gold, plat and diamond and picks up again on the high end of challenger. > > And his performance in lower tiers has historically been accredited to a global nunu ult. > > Lots of discussions like that come from winrates, but the idea that a champion is strong or weak based on their winrate and their winrate alone is a cop-out that people use to virtue signal, complain and or pose. > > Lots of people admire the depth of league and league theory but some people just don't have the experience, didn't put the work in and sometimes don't even have the intelligence to really rip into it or speak for anything. People who aren't too green have already learned to spot who and where they are. GP at least need setup one barrel for combo and enemy who is dumb enough no respect danger zone GP canot conjure three barels and detonate them in fracture of second. When someone say "mechanicaly intesive" i immediately see in my head picture of hand furiuosly smashing keyboard and people like present it as "skill". Ryze is most skill heavy due to his combos but riven with "spam q fast as possible" not, its just quick time event, same engage, same combination, same execution - just one gameplay pattern to learn for every situation. Also all skill expresion is drowned in so insane damage that you dont even need execute full combo to instagib and it is still not enough for riot, where it it end? when zed will be kiling just by ult without need to add any damage? Also i dont fully understand wieght of WR, yeah insane numbers are without question but overall how can be WR used for determinig champion power when it is used like number in vacum while you are getting it in team game with milion variables. If i use extreme scenario that champion x is always in losing team (for example always 2 afk) he will be with 0 winrate but this number didnt say anything about how strong or weak he is in reality.
> [{quoted}](name=Exin0,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gj07TnzW,comment-id=00140000000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-11T06:11:46.732+0000) > > GP at least need setup one barrel for combo and enemy who is dumb enough no respect danger zone GP canot conjure three barels and detonate them in fracture of second. When someone say "mechanicaly intesive" i immediately see in my head picture of hand furiuosly smashing keyboard and people like present it as "skill". Ryze is most skill heavy due to his combos but riven with "spam q fast as possible" not, its just quick time event, same engage, same combination, same execution - just one gameplay pattern to learn for every situation. Also all skill expresion is drowned in so insane damage that you dont even need execute full combo to instagib and it is still not enough for riot, where it it end? when zed will be kiling just by ult without need to add any damage? Also i dont fully understand wieght of WR, yeah insane numbers are without question but overall how can be WR used for determinig champion power when it is used like number in vacum while you are getting it in team game with milion variables. If i use extreme scenario that champion x is always in losing team (for example always 2 afk) he will be with 0 winrate but this number didnt say anything about how strong or weak he is in reality. Gangplank barrels are undodgable within 900 range when done properly. Unless you already forgot, I am the one that said there are many variables. I am not considering anything in a vacuum, you are. That's part of why we can't just make up anything we want a winrate to mean
Nazgul10 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=a1yzPdg9,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T18:08:54.098+0000) > > Pantheon's Q is very reliable within it's own range. > > If people know how to space, dash dance and keep range, a lot of the time, it can be avoided entirely, and champions like riven with her E can mitigate half or all of his qs depending on how she appraoches the wave and if she can afford to zone him when she is stronger, so it isn't really that simple. > > And really, most champions who can handle champs like panth now, will be able to do so after this change. the champs that get boned the most would be irelia, camille, nasus and jax but to be fair, if you were willing to play any of those 4 into pantheon before this change, such players will probably still try to play them into him and it's not like it is totally undoable in solo queue. > > And that was just for getting the Q off, as a victory condition, to take pressure and convert it into a cs advantage, or kill pressure or priority, is a whole other story. Pantheon's Q, isn't necessarily reliable in that sense either, because armor, hp, sustain options and being able to fight back are all options and some champions aren't exactly uncomfortable playing into pantheon. I think it just gives him even more power against champions he counters, like Jax. Since Pantheon can completely zone Jax out of cs, any attempt for an all in would result in more kite on Pantheon's side, because of the mana regen. But champions that already counter Pant should not have a problem, even though his map presence will be increased slightly.
> [{quoted}](name=Nazgul10,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=a1yzPdg9,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T18:42:42.777+0000) > > I think it just gives him even more power against champions he counters, like Jax. Since Pantheon can completely zone Jax out of cs, any attempt for an all in would result in more kite on Pantheon's side, because of the mana regen. > > But champions that already counter Pant should not have a problem, even though his map presence will be increased slightly. Pantheon doesn't straight up counter jax, if jax gets ahead he has a combat ult and thus a much stronger all in, he also out splits and out scales panth. Jax has a stronger 2v2 most of the time, and can often survive panth with good play. But yes, when pantheon is good into jax, this is a big buff, and makes his ult a way to dodge counter strike and equalize a little bit.
Nazgul10 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=a1yzPdg9,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-07-10T17:24:34.294+0000) > > His laning phase is situationally strong, it isn't like it was 5 seasons ago when everyone made fun of you if you didn't win lane as pantheon. > > Now, as we understand more about the game, a lot of people try to make the argument that pantheon's lane is weak in many matchups. And a lot of champions with stronger all ins, ways to sustain him, ways to out 2v2 him and ways to out range him have had a lot of success proving that. > > There are many chances enemies have against him, keep playing or look them up, if it's that much of a problem for YOU in YOUR games. ;) I never actually play against Pantheon. In fact, I don't think I've seen him in this season at all. So, I don't know if he's trash or good right now or whatever. But, I don't think that throwing more power into Pantheon's laning phase would be healthy, since his Q is point and click, it would be way too reliable and harass would be extremely annoying. There might be some champions who can all in him and still win, but I think that 120 mana for every time the enemy attacks your shield is a bit too much. Should people really be punished for knocking his shield?
> [{quoted}](name=Nazgul10,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=a1yzPdg9,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T18:00:21.546+0000) > > I never actually play against Pantheon. In fact, I don't think I've seen him in this season at all. So, I don't know if he's trash or good right now or whatever. > > But, I don't think that throwing more power into Pantheon's laning phase would be healthy, since his Q is point and click, it would be way too reliable and harass would be extremely annoying. > > > There might be some champions who can all in him and still win, but I think that 120 mana for every time the enemy attacks your shield is a bit too much. Should people really be punished for knocking his shield? Pantheon's Q is very reliable within it's own range. If people know how to space, dash dance and keep range, a lot of the time, it can be avoided entirely, and champions like riven with her E can mitigate half or all of his qs depending on how she appraoches the wave and if she can afford to zone him when she is stronger, so it isn't really that simple. And really, most champions who can handle champs like panth now, will be able to do so after this change. the champs that get boned the most would be irelia, camille, nasus and jax but to be fair, if you were willing to play any of those 4 into pantheon before this change, such players will probably still try to play them into him and it's not like it is totally undoable in solo queue. And that was just for getting the Q off, as a victory condition, to take pressure and convert it into a cs advantage, or kill pressure or priority, is a whole other story. Pantheon's Q, isn't necessarily reliable in that sense either, because armor, hp, sustain options and being able to fight back are all options and some champions aren't exactly uncomfortable playing into pantheon.
Nazgul10 (EUNE)
: Yes, give pantheon more tools to break your mentality before 10 minutes. His laning phase is already "strong" and annoying, do you actually want to remove the only chance the enemies have against him, which is mana depletion? Instant ult that lands 50% faster? So, no way to stop him from leaving the lane with ult, and also faster drop so that enemies have less time to react? No, I think I'm good with how Pantheon is or will be right now.
> [{quoted}](name=Nazgul10,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=a1yzPdg9,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-10T17:21:39.710+0000) > > Yes, give pantheon more tools to break your mentality before 10 minutes. His laning phase is already "strong" and annoying, do you actually want to remove the only chance the enemies have against him, which is mana depletion? > > Instant ult that lands 50% faster? So, no way to stop him from leaving the lane with ult, and also faster drop so that enemies have less time to react? > > No, I think I'm good with how Pantheon is or will be right now. His laning phase is situationally strong, it isn't like it was 5 seasons ago when everyone made fun of you if you didn't win lane as pantheon. Now, as we understand more about the game, a lot of people try to make the argument that pantheon's lane is weak in many matchups. And a lot of champions with stronger all ins, ways to sustain him, ways to out 2v2 him and ways to out range him have had a lot of success proving that. There are many chances enemies have against him, keep playing or look them up, if it's that much of a problem for YOU in YOUR games. ;)
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: You do know that Pantheon is going to be reworked soon, right?
> [{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=a1yzPdg9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-10T16:16:05.639+0000) > > You do know that Pantheon is going to be reworked soon, right? Sure, and i'll be super pleased if Riot comes up with an even better way to give our favorite spartan some much needed love.
Kazekiba (NA)
: Better idea; Allow his Ult to be cast on the Enemy nexus, destroying it instantly regardless of turrets. Pretty much the same premise as giving him 120 Mana refunds multiple times in a fight and doubling his Q damage
> [{quoted}](name=Kazekiba,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=a1yzPdg9,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-10T16:21:15.655+0000) > > Better idea; Allow his Ult to be cast on the Enemy nexus, destroying it instantly regardless of turrets. > > Pretty much the same premise as giving him 120 Mana refunds multiple times in a fight and doubling his Q damage Pantheon already has no mana issues in fights, it's just a lane and early jungle limitation. And his ult, while it's use as a "Twisted fate ult" is amazing, is less powerful than many other on demand ults, and even if we went futher and made panth's W an AoE stun that lasted the same duration as his E, he wouldn't exactly be a top tier teamfighter, so I don't know what you're so afraid of there. Giving his ult a little fight or counter gank utility, in fights that he doesn't use it to catalyze isn't game breaking by any means. It would make him a much more dominant laner vs many matchups , but if both players lane properly a lot of champions who DO have the better end of it now will still be better vs pantheon after. Pantheon would probably be unseen in all of pro play, except maybe one or two teams in EuW and while it wouldn't break the game, a lot of pantheon OTPs would feel better having this. And there might even be one or two matchups that pantheon can try to bully hard that he didn't already, and a little bit of that is cool now and then.
Rioter Comments
Exin0 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gj07TnzW,comment-id=00140000000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-08T13:46:41.295+0000) > > No, that isn't how winrates work. Mechanically intensive champions often have positive winrates, even in bronze, silver and gold. Riven and cass being frequent offenders. > > Even so, Riven and cass have, historically, been bad picks even in competitive play. You will be right if they also didnt have massive playerbase in comparison to other champions which suggest they are not hard to pick up and slam maybe there are some super secret moves to master but overall they are not mechanically intensive as they mains like to tell us
> [{quoted}](name=Exin0,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gj07TnzW,comment-id=001400000000000100000001,timestamp=2019-07-10T15:24:28.875+0000) > > You will be right if they also didnt have massive playerbase in comparison to other champions which suggest they are not hard to pick up and slam maybe there are some super secret moves to master but overall they are not mechanically intensive as they mains like to tell us Yes, winrates in different brackets suggest things like that as well. Azir, Ryze and Cass get hinted at with the difficulty to get a certain threshold of value, and this is also reflected in the winrates of mains vs new azir, ryzes and cass players respectively. You also have champions, who are notoriously difficult to optimize, like gangplank with his sensitive positioning, decision making and phantom barrel combos but when Gangplank is In, he does well in bronze, silver, dips between gold, plat and diamond and picks up again on the high end of challenger. And his performance in lower tiers has historically been accredited to a global nunu ult. Lots of discussions like that come from winrates, but the idea that a champion is strong or weak based on their winrate and their winrate alone is a cop-out that people use to virtue signal, complain and or pose. Lots of people admire the depth of league and league theory but some people just don't have the experience, didn't put the work in and sometimes don't even have the intelligence to really rip into it or speak for anything. People who aren't too green have already learned to spot who and where they are.
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rFBvfI2q,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T15:52:40.435+0000) > > Then I don't understand the trouble. Hey, I contacted support :) All of my friend requests were declined or not accepted, you can see them normally :) Checkmate Brony, get out of your basement and do something useful ;) (I like this persona more tho, it's well thought out, maybe little bit over the top, you know, hard to believe that 51 y/o doc with passion for progaming, with contacts with analysts/coaches/progamers/challangers, with young wife, 4 children, chess master)
> [{quoted}](name=DGAGAAsharpAGD,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rFBvfI2q,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T08:59:20.754+0000) > > Hey, I contacted support :) > > All of my friend requests were declined or not accepted, you can see them normally :) > > Checkmate Brony, get out of your basement and do something useful ;) > > (I like this persona more tho, it's well thought out, maybe little bit over the top, you know, hard to believe that 51 y/o doc with passion for progaming, with contacts with analysts/coaches/progamers/challangers, with young wife, 4 children, chess master) I never declined a friend request and you and no name you listed was shown on this list. I am not a brony. I don't live in a basement. "Persona" is a weird word for accurately depicted information. I don't even believe you contacted support, and if you did, you probably got one of the help workers from other companies Riot likes to hire to handle these things. It's likely that they assumed all friend requests were denied or ignored, wrongly. If fantasizes of checkmate are what lets you eek out another day, have at them but it certainly looks like you have ulterior motives.
: Only change I want to see on Ashe is her Q not requiring charging up via autos OR allowing Volley to grant Q stacks based on champions hit.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=26iEXzFA,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-07-10T02:29:37.972+0000) > > Only change I want to see on Ashe is her Q not requiring charging up via autos OR allowing Volley to grant Q stacks based on champions hit. That would be an equally huge buff but I liked the former idea I mentioned in the OP because it dramatically changes the way you play ashe rather than making her stronger up front. I'd want to broaden her gameplay rather than just inject more power
: You're almost right. Win rates don't tell you the individual _strengths_ of a champion, but they're a good indicator of the champion's _strength_ overall. You, evidently, don't actually know Ashe's _strengths_ and are denying the evidence of her _strength_, probably because you lost one or a few Ashe games.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=26iEXzFA,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T01:28:55.219+0000) > > You're almost right. Win rates don't tell you the individual _strengths_ of a champion, but they're a good indicator of the champion's _strength_ overall. > > You, evidently, don't actually know Ashe's _strengths_ and are denying the evidence of her _strength_, probably because you lost one or a few Ashe games. You are currently ranked in Iron 2, and I haven't played a ranked game below master tier in more than a year so there might be a gap in our environments and the games that we're used to but that shouldn't be important. Like I said, Winrates are not an indicator of a champion's over all strength. They are an indicator of performance. And that is very volatile, based on difficulty, based on decision making, the players in question, where and when they are being picked so on and so forth. Reputable players, coaches and higher tier players will use winrates as a tool to suggest questions and that's about it. People who consider otherwise are either the (Sometimes vocal) minority , lower rated and usually both. Champions, in league, all have fixed values, for every number and piece of data that plugs into the game when you pick them. It's measurable, it's quantifiable and it's qualify able. That's what we really use to determine the champion's strength. Not winrates. Your idea that win rate = strength is like how people tell newbies not to die. And say that if you die, you made a mistake, and then they play tanks from behind their back line or they don't auto attack and get value in a teamfight that they would have won as an adc, just because dying would be a mistake and there was a perceived threat of dying. It's a good place to start from, but that's all it is. It's a gateway principle. If you don't want to take it from me, Take it from DopA, LS , Xiao Lao Ban or any other high tier solo queue player, coach / analyst or pro. Lastly , instead of adhoming me just because you couldn't make an argument and don't respect information from other people, have some integrity. I know plenty about ashe's strengths and weaknesses, and instead of denying your placeholder evidence, I am using something better, understanding gained from academics and thousands more games experience than you ever played. Glad to help :){{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2teOicA,comment-id=000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-09T22:41:51.039+0000) > > Fun is subjective so you aren't really making an argument. > > In my experience, the kids who hated heimer bot are the same ones who hated everything. They just like to complain because they are hardstuck fluctuating between Gm and diamond and realize they aren't going anywhere in league. And what rank could your intelligent self be. There is no way you can consider Heimerdinger bot fun to play against. Heimer isnt the only issue as well. Shit like swain bot was annoying as well.
> [{quoted}](name=A Sutpid Idot,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2teOicA,comment-id=0001000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T22:45:44.445+0000) > > And what rank could your intelligent self be. There is no way you can consider Heimerdinger bot fun to play against. Heimer isnt the only issue as well. Shit like swain bot was annoying as well. No, I loved heimer bot. I also liked Sona / taric. But that might be partly because I'm native to a much higher bracket and am better equipped to play into what you would find weird dynamics.
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2teOicA,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T20:42:41.859+0000) > > In the words of DopA, league is an adc / mid game and i'm only half kidding. > > ER changes like this would help to emphasize that, and by proxy, better appreciate jungle, supp and top, by giving them clearer avenues to enable their mid and adc. > > We might even get a resurgence of duo ap comps and assassins could theoretically be played bot if they could realistically get lethal damage as a duo lane. > > Season 10 is just around the corner and this is the time for bigger changes :) Ap champions and assassins bot lane isn't fun to play against. There is a reason ADC mains hated Heimerdinger and shit bot lane.
> [{quoted}](name=A Sutpid Idot,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2teOicA,comment-id=00010000000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-09T22:27:32.536+0000) > > Ap champions and assassins bot lane isn't fun to play against. There is a reason ADC mains hated Heimerdinger and shit bot lane. Fun is subjective so you aren't really making an argument. In my experience, the kids who hated heimer bot are the same ones who hated everything. They just like to complain because they are hardstuck fluctuating between Gm and diamond and realize they aren't going anywhere in league.
: What are you basing any of those claims on? She's above 50% on every single site. She is performing perfectly fine. Nowhere near the bottom of the barrel. And that's even despite the fact she rushes bork instead of building into her passive.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=26iEXzFA,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T21:42:53.141+0000) > > What are you basing any of those claims on? > > She's above 50% on every single site. She is performing perfectly fine. Nowhere near the bottom of the barrel. And that's even despite the fact she rushes bork instead of building into her passive. What she can and cannot do in lanes, skirmishes and teamfights + when she can do it and what she needs to do it. Winrates don't tell you the strength of a champion nor do they tell you much about their performance. It's quite literally, whether the champion won or lost. At their best, they are just a tool to suggest questions.
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2teOicA,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T20:50:18.424+0000) > > If it wasn't against the terms of use i'd give you 100 to 1 odds that any of my changes would be beloved AFTER the fact, should they go live, and that league's community would grow from all the buzz, we would see at least 5% more new players enter the game. Any amount of money you'd like, provided I don't have to shell out more than 13.7 mil USD in the unlikely event something goes pear shaped. Weird, thought that LoL population went down bcs of a)shitty MM, b)overall too much dmg, so yeah, giving 50% more ability dmg to every champ that will invest 3300 will make ppl to come back :). Would love any sourced opinions from your "colleagues" on your suggestions.
> [{quoted}](name=CrazyMonkeyCZ,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2teOicA,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T20:57:21.132+0000) > > Weird, thought that LoL population went down bcs of a)shitty MM, b)overall too much dmg, so yeah, giving 50% more ability dmg to every champ that will invest 3300 will make ppl to come back :). Would love any sourced opinions from your "colleagues" on your suggestions. We just came out of a syndra meta. And syndra was meta because other Aps didn't have enough damage to kill anyone. Ap itemization got hit hard, and now we're opting into burst over strong kits. If we increase damage in itemization, or revert global health changes to what they were, pre graves, then it wouldn't be such an issue and more things could and would be played. This "too much damage" idea is a misconception , especially at your level where numbers are inflated by suicide into enemy carries and handshaking fights irregardless of both teams power spikes.
: > Season 10 is just around the corner and this is the time for bigger changes :) I bet my 28k euro piano that non of your changes will ever see the light of live servers.
> [{quoted}](name=CrazyMonkeyCZ,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2teOicA,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T20:45:36.030+0000) > > I bet my 28k euro piano that non of your changes will ever see the light of live servers. If it wasn't against the terms of use i'd give you 100 to 1 odds that any of my changes would be beloved AFTER the fact, should they go live, and that league's community would grow from all the buzz, we would see at least 5% more new players enter the game. Any amount of money you'd like, provided I don't have to shell out more than 13.7 mil USD in the unlikely event something goes pear shaped.
iiGazeii (NA)
: Essence Reaver is 120.71% gold efficient, not including its passive. It's fine. It's designed for AD casters that have mana issues, like Xayah and Lucian. It doesn't need to be built anywhere else.
> [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2teOicA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-09T20:44:12.442+0000) > > Essence Reaver is 120.71% gold efficient, not including its passive. It's fine. It's designed for AD casters that have mana issues, like Xayah and Lucian. It doesn't need to be built anywhere else. Yes it is, and this will be a great way to make it a heftier power spike and promote dynamism in league and league comps. You're forgetting that both teams are allowed to build essence reavers. We elected into re balancing but do you not remember runic echos meta? How about feral flare? League can and should go through periods like that, it is a great catalyst and would grow our community.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kazamaru,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2teOicA,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-07-09T20:30:07.019+0000) > > Do you play this game? Serious question though. He is slowly but surely becoming boards meme, go through his comment history, good comedy source. He claims to be 51 y/o, medical doctor, wife that he married when she was half of his age, 4 kids, played around 16k of ranked games mainly in Korea and China, peaked masters, is chess master, has connections with coaches/analysts/proplayers/challangers in Korea and many other things lol
> [{quoted}](name=CrazyMonkeyCZ,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2teOicA,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-09T20:34:16.844+0000) > > He is slowly but surely becoming boards meme, go through his comment history, good comedy source. > > He claims to be 51 y/o, medical doctor, wife that he married when she was half of his age, 4 kids, played around 16k of ranked games mainly in Korea and China, peaked masters, is chess master, has connections with coaches/analysts/proplayers/challangers in Korea and many other things lol In korea? yes but most of my colleagues are based in China and EUW
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2teOicA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-07-09T20:23:30.617+0000) > > It would go a long way towards helping zed, riven and katarina come back even if it wouldn't be enough of an indirect buff by itself. Essence reaver is already good enough rofl
> [{quoted}](name=A Sutpid Idot,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2teOicA,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T20:29:26.211+0000) > > Essence reaver is already good enough rofl In the words of DopA, league is an adc / mid game and i'm only half kidding. ER changes like this would help to emphasize that, and by proxy, better appreciate jungle, supp and top, by giving them clearer avenues to enable their mid and adc. We might even get a resurgence of duo ap comps and assassins could theoretically be played bot if they could realistically get lethal damage as a duo lane. Season 10 is just around the corner and this is the time for bigger changes :)
Kazamaru (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2teOicA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-07-09T20:23:30.617+0000) > > It would go a long way towards helping zed, riven and katarina come back even if it wouldn't be enough of an indirect buff by itself. Do you play this game? Serious question though.
> [{quoted}](name=Kazamaru,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2teOicA,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-07-09T20:30:07.019+0000) > > Do you play this game? Serious question though. I have 14000 ranked games everywhere under 800 lp on 4 different serves. I have thousands more normal and aram games, but it's weird to give you a straight count because i've been known to multibox those and play them concurrently.
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2teOicA,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-09T20:01:22.877+0000)Simply change it to also have +50% ability damage and that should make it feel nice because abilities will hit 50% harder. That would be patently absurd. Assassins would go ballistic, as would *mages* who would absolutely flex into this item for +50% ability damage.
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2teOicA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-09T20:18:42.521+0000) > > That would be patently absurd. Assassins would go ballistic, as would *mages* who would absolutely flex into this item for +50% ability damage. It would go a long way towards helping zed, riven and katarina come back even if it wouldn't be enough of an indirect buff by itself.
: But she works as poke adc now? With comet, followed by ER and trinity she is played even in your praised Korean challanger. Her W is already on 3,5 secs after two items. But idk what your unproved sources tells us.
> [{quoted}](name=CrazyMonkeyCZ,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=26iEXzFA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-09T20:00:36.701+0000) > > But she works as poke adc now? With comet, followed by ER and trinity she is played even in your praised Korean challanger. Her W is already on 3,5 secs after two items. But idk what your unproved sources tells us. She is out shadowed right now and far removed from her pre season 1 - season 5 glory. I can already tell you don't regularly play above master tier.
Rioter Comments
: Ashe is perfectly fine, she needs no changes.
> [{quoted}](name=2Charmnot2Charm,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=26iEXzFA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-09T19:43:00.242+0000) > > Ashe is perfectly fine, she needs no changes. For solo queue purposes, below mid master tier, all champions might as well be flavor choices, so sure, she's fine. In competitive, teams who want to pick ashe for ashe will do so with or without these changes, but without these changes or some other direct or indirect buff, nobody is picking ashe because she is good. they are picking her for her kit. That's a very important distinction to make. Now whether she is serviceable or not, promoting ashe in a way that doesn't break the game and emphasizes her laning strengths, encourages her to go into her early midgame on a good foot and maybe make picks with that lead, is not only good game design, but it would 1) draw better contours in bot lane and 2) be great for viewership from pro leagues.
CLG ear (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=2Charmnot2Charm,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=26iEXzFA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-09T19:43:00.242+0000) > > Ashe is perfectly fine, she needs no changes. she is pretty fine, if you ask me
> [{quoted}](name=CLG ear,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=26iEXzFA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-07-09T19:44:29.221+0000) > > she is pretty fine, if you ask me Nice meme
: If it weren't an extremely easy to hit cone, maybe they could buff it. But as it stands it serves its purpose. What you're suggesting would fundamentally change the champion, and make her _extremely_ overpowered. Considering the fact she's performing just fine right now, what you're asking is like asking them to add a reset and mana refund to _Annie's_ W, on top of the reset she already has on the Q.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=26iEXzFA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-09T19:41:04.067+0000) > > If it weren't an extremely easy to hit cone, maybe they could buff it. But as it stands it serves its purpose. > > What you're suggesting would fundamentally change the champion, and make her _extremely_ overpowered. Considering the fact she's performing just fine right now, what you're asking is like asking them to add a reset and mana refund to _Annie's_ W, on top of the reset she already has on the Q. No, she still wouldn't be a very contended pick with and against many team compositions. She won't be able to compete with kog or vayne for example, in their niches. She also won't be a siege champ to the extent cait is, she won't have the follow up kaisa does and she certainly isn't going to be wanted in teams that can't emphasize her as primary engage. And no she isn't performing particularly fine right now, every adc is and she's right with every non meta adc in the bottom of the barrel. Annie would still be one of the weakest champions in the game if W refunded mana btw.
Rioter Comments
Srbonator (EUNE)
: The only way to fix riven is to make her lose the range and AD after she uses wind slash
> [{quoted}](name=Srbonator,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rFBvfI2q,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-09T16:39:39.411+0000) > > The only way to fix riven is to make her lose the range and AD after she uses wind slash No, there are hundreds of millions of tweaks / changes and reworks that can be conceived. That only way talk is unreasonable. Besides, Riven is subpar right now, she needs a little bit of love (:
CLG ear (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rFBvfI2q,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-07-09T16:09:11.342+0000) > > how would that work? she would have to be real first then we go out on a date
> [{quoted}](name=CLG ear,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rFBvfI2q,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T16:12:13.316+0000) > > she would have to be real first then we go out on a date Oh okay then I understand
CLG ear (NA)
: it's time for riven to be my girlfriend
> [{quoted}](name=CLG ear,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rFBvfI2q,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-09T15:53:31.248+0000) > > it's time for riven to be my girlfriend how would that work?
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rFBvfI2q,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-09T15:37:08.909+0000) > > (https://imgur.com/a/SBq46Fm) > > I scrolled through the whole list and you're not on it. > > Are you trolling me or do we need to go to customer support? > > I posted a link here, to a screenshot I took with the insert a link function but it isn't showing up https://i.imgur.com/JbTDWrw.png https://i.imgur.com/0I5gTxG.png Idk, I can't do more imo. (the link is taking the ")" as it's part)
> [{quoted}](name=DGAGAAsharpAGD,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rFBvfI2q,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-09T15:45:04.977+0000) > > https://i.imgur.com/JbTDWrw.png > > https://i.imgur.com/0I5gTxG.png > > Idk, I can't do more imo. > > (the link is taking the ")" as it's part) Then I don't understand the trouble.
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rFBvfI2q,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-07T16:40:31.280+0000) > > Try adding me again, I have a very long list of incomming friend requests but I scanned it twice and didn't see "Autochessclone" > > I think if you cancel your request and send again it should go to the top of the list! Hi, I tried to sent friend requests from two accs again, "AutoChessClone" and "AdHominemLover", in order to join some discords that could teach me something new. I would be happy if you accepted them if you can.
> [{quoted}](name=DGAGAAsharpAGD,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rFBvfI2q,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T15:30:30.092+0000) > > Hi, I tried to sent friend requests from two accs again, "AutoChessClone" and "AdHominemLover", in order to join some discords that could teach me something new. I would be happy if you accepted them if you can. https://ibb.co/8Dwdysq I scrolled through the whole list and you're not on it. Are you trolling me or do we need to go to customer support? I posted a link here, to a screenshot I took with the insert a link function but it isn't showing up [](https://ibb.co/8Dwdysq)
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rFBvfI2q,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-07T16:40:31.280+0000) > > Try adding me again, I have a very long list of incomming friend requests but I scanned it twice and didn't see "Autochessclone" > > I think if you cancel your request and send again it should go to the top of the list! Hi, I tried to sent friend requests from two accs again, "AutoChessClone" and "AdHominemLover", in order to join some discords that could teach me something new. I would be happy if you accepted them if you can.
> [{quoted}](name=DGAGAAsharpAGD,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rFBvfI2q,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T15:30:30.092+0000) > > Hi, I tried to sent friend requests from two accs again, "AutoChessClone" and "AdHominemLover", in order to join some discords that could teach me something new. I would be happy if you accepted them if you can. So far I got 17 friend requests this morning, all of which were from people I played with and none were the names listed
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TZXkv7GE,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T13:21:41.064+0000) > > Sorry to debunk both of your arguments but 1) I am not a zed main and never even played zed on this account > > also 2) I am a practicing doctor, married a woman half my age and have 4 children. > > If you're going to troll, troll and if you're going to argue, try something substantive rather than baseless ad homs. > > Saying something is quite clear doesn't make it any less of an asspull than if you said "I'm making this up but go along with it". > > Either way, you're trying too hard. > > I liked the part where you PCed up with a TLDR tho. It made me cringe in a good way. May I just ask, what is your purpose on this platform? I'm sure, you already found out, that vast majority of users here are not really smart, probably young ppl, that don't know how to play/balance this game. Why would "doctor", "dad" and "husband", etc., spend his time doing something that has no value? It doesn't matter how good or bad your ideas are, they won't be ever implemented, since this platform is dead for Riot.
> [{quoted}](name=CrazyMonkeyCZ,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TZXkv7GE,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T14:52:10.469+0000) > > May I just ask, what is your purpose on this platform? I'm sure, you already found out, that vast majority of users here are not really smart, probably young ppl, that don't know how to play/balance this game. > > Why would "doctor", "dad" and "husband", etc., spend his time doing something that has no value? It doesn't matter how good or bad your ideas are, they won't be ever implemented, since this platform is dead for Riot. I do what I like, and because I like it it has value. For this platform as well as the game , both are for fun and other reasons I should not disclose at this time, less I blunder integrity things or give hints at my real identity.
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TZXkv7GE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-07-09T12:12:58.069+0000) > > more than 14000 ranked games and 16000 games played, less than 600 of which were on zed. > > My most played champion is TF and I have played many games against zeds, he's one of my favorite champions to play into because if the other player is better than me, if they're on zed I have a better chance of winning the lane and being more useful than they are anyway. > > Change it up and make me play into a xerath 300 or 400 lp higher than me, yikes. I better be prepared for a tough one Alright let me point out a very simple concept for even the most delisional of people, just because you have no life does not mean you know how to balance a game, throwing up that you're 16000 games deep does not equal you having the ability to properly balance a game, I dont care what rank you are or how good you say you are, everyone can be bias towards a champion and you are quite clearly a zed main claiming hes underpowered, again no proof of such just like all your other claims. TLDR no one cares you claim to have no life, especially someone whos about statistical analysis while only playing the game for fun, if I played this game to climb I wouldnt be playing Jhin and rek'sai top as those two being some of my most fun offpicks.
> [{quoted}](name=ShunTheWitch,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TZXkv7GE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T12:27:11.295+0000) > > Alright let me point out a very simple concept for even the most delisional of people, just because you have no life does not mean you know how to balance a game, throwing up that you're 16000 games deep does not equal you having the ability to properly balance a game, I dont care what rank you are or how good you say you are, everyone can be bias towards a champion and you are quite clearly a zed main claiming hes underpowered, again no proof of such just like all your other claims. > > TLDR no one cares you claim to have no life, especially someone whos about statistical analysis while only playing the game for fun, if I played this game to climb I wouldnt be playing Jhin and rek'sai top as those two being some of my most fun offpicks. Sorry to debunk both of your arguments but 1) I am not a zed main and never even played zed on this account also 2) I am a practicing doctor, married a woman half my age and have 4 children. If you're going to troll, troll and if you're going to argue, try something substantive rather than baseless ad homs. Saying something is quite clear doesn't make it any less of an asspull than if you said "I'm making this up but go along with it". Either way, you're trying too hard. I liked the part where you PCed up with a TLDR tho. It made me cringe in a good way.
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=k4k0N5q5,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T00:32:13.609+0000) > > If you don't understand why the change makes sense then reread the thread, and if that doesn't help you, come back when you're better. I have read the thread three times trying to understand why. I think even if I got up to masters I would still be confused. You don’t have to be a challenger player to look at that change and go “huh?” Not to mention rank doesn’t equal understanding 100% but that’s a whole other topic. Basically rank <= knowledge
> [{quoted}](name=Phieldworker,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=k4k0N5q5,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-09T02:14:45.162+0000) > > Neither of the two. And I don’t think I have been fussing about it. Ive talked about a change that would flow with her kit, talked about the purpose of skirmishers, the difference between divers and skirmishers as well. Mostly trying to see where the change you suggest would make sense, and for me it doesn’t make sense. It’s ok for people to disagree with opinions. I didn’t call your idea dumb or anything just disagreed on it not fitting in Riven’s kit/playstyle. Maybe try and Shoot a tweet over to a rioter who works on balance or to a Riven main and see what they think. Or maybe some credibility (champ pool, rank, play time, etc) on your part since I’m sure this account you are using is not your main account. As we already established in this thread, Riven's damage is too high to remove the cast and travel times of her abilities or most of her abilities without removing some elsewhere, she also needs to be buffed, rather than nerfed or maintained. A stacking single target silence was probably the best choice of cc.
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fERHEQBk,comment-id=0001000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-08T19:34:59.706+0000) > > big·ot·ed > /ˈbiɡədəd/ > Learn to pronounce > adjective > having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of one's own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others. > > Incorrect. Bigoted people are necessarily prejudiced. > > The word you are looking for is confident. Nah i'm "confident" i meant bigoted
> [{quoted}](name=Sage da Sinner,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fERHEQBk,comment-id=00010000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T09:37:13.982+0000) > > Nah i'm "confident" i meant bigoted I'm hoping you just misunderstand the word because if you know what bigoted means and are still meant to use it then you have bigger problems. Obstinate is inherently stubborn and will refuse to interact or to budge. I reference too many other players to be closed minded and / or obstinate. Same thing for intolerance. Not to mention, It's a bit of a stretch to call anything I said or mentioned here "Opinion", it's way too backed up in conventional knowledge, wisdom and practice. You should draw a distinction and use words like facts, wisdom or pointers. In any case, good luck with that buddy.
: This guy has clearly bumped his head, I knew zed mains were delusional but jeez this OP. Is this what people are going to assume I'm like if I lose my bet and end up one tricking zed for a week?
> [{quoted}](name=ShunTheWitch,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TZXkv7GE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-09T10:42:14.459+0000) > > This guy has clearly bumped his head, I knew zed mains were delusional but jeez this OP. > > Is this what people are going to assume I'm like if I lose my bet and end up one tricking zed for a week? more than 14000 ranked games and 16000 games played, less than 600 of which were on zed. My most played champion is TF and I have played many games against zeds, he's one of my favorite champions to play into because if the other player is better than me, if they're on zed I have a better chance of winning the lane and being more useful than they are anyway. Change it up and make me play into a xerath 300 or 400 lp higher than me, yikes. I better be prepared for a tough one
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=k4k0N5q5,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T00:32:13.609+0000) > > If you don't understand why the change makes sense then reread the thread, and if that doesn't help you, come back when you're better. I have read the thread three times trying to understand why. I think even if I got up to masters I would still be confused. You don’t have to be a challenger player to look at that change and go “huh?” Not to mention rank doesn’t equal understanding 100% but that’s a whole other topic. Basically rank <= knowledge
> [{quoted}](name=Phieldworker,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=k4k0N5q5,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T01:05:13.973+0000) > > I have read the thread three times trying to understand why. I think even if I got up to masters I would still be confused. You don’t have to be a challenger player to look at that change and go “huh?” > > Not to mention rank doesn’t equal understanding 100% but that’s a whole other topic. Basically rank <= knowledge of course rank =/= knowledge. Being able to look at a game, without the pressure of actually playing it allows you to dedicate more mental resources instead of being in performance mode. That's how Apdo could talk about what he should have done or Imls could talk about what macro rotations LCK teams should be going for, even if his decision making in his own games is far more suspicious. That said, you aren't likely to succeed in league and still be unable to appreciate this change and why it's a good thing. You're not being reasonable and the more you fuss and moan the greener you look. Perhaps you are just very obstinate or trolling.
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=k4k0N5q5,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-08T23:35:54.488+0000) > > Riven can't chase down targets endlessly in a teamfight environment, she still has problems being squishy, and her E is much less unbreakable than it is in a 1v1 or small skirmish. > > She is also losing out on a LOT of lifesteal without her current passive, you're really underestimating how hard it can be for riven to mollywhop priority targets, even if she is on pace. > > Not to mention, lots of champions and comps outright deny riven, and can handle her in the 1v1. > > Nobody said Riven and camille were exactly the same role, but if your argument is that riven can sit on her priority targets forever with a silence, then that was neatly refuted. > > Ekko is not an assassin, but his W is much larger in range, scope and for differnet purposes / use than riven's cc. > > Yasuo has two hard ccs, And safer ways to apply them. > > Yasuo also has windwall. > > Now, after that, I must ask, are you making things up as you go? lol. Negative. I’m just trying to see why this change would make sense. Does she need more dueling power in the 1 v 1? Does she need it for an escape? Is it too easy to weave her empowered aa in between abilities? Like why does her current passive or kit make you go “umm bad idea, she needs a silence instead” Edit: and before you say “at your elo or level of gameplay” I’ve gone against Riven one tricks that were in masters and they weaved autos and abilities together flawlessly. I hated it because it made lane phase tough but it looked really cool.
> [{quoted}](name=Phieldworker,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=k4k0N5q5,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-09T00:25:37.477+0000) > > Negative. I’m just trying to see why this change would make sense. Does she need more dueling power in the 1 v 1? Does she need it for an escape? Is it too easy to weave her empowered aa in between abilities? Like why does her current passive or kit make you go “umm bad idea, she needs a silence instead” > > Edit: and before you say “at your elo or level of gameplay” I’ve gone against Riven one tricks that were in masters and they weaved autos and abilities together flawlessly. I hated it because it made lane phase tough but it looked really cool. If you don't understand why the change makes sense then reread the thread, and if that doesn't help you, come back when you're better.
CLG ear (NA)
: https://i.imgur.com/fIBgRVN.jpg[]
> [{quoted}](name=CLG ear,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=k4k0N5q5,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-07-09T00:05:45.707+0000) > > https://i.imgur.com/fIBgRVN.jpg[] Do you just have an archive full of random riven fanart?
: Because armor is useless
> [{quoted}](name=HP Crookshanks,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MAgU5oOj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-08T16:04:20.325+0000) > > Because armor is useless Armor is a great stat as is MR because every 1% armor or mr gives you 1% of your effective (not base) hp vs that damage type. The real reason adcs aren't itemizing into % pen as much of the time is because tanks don't deal a lot of damage right now and can be ignored while the adcs focus on squishier priority targets.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: No ADC is building armor penetration, why is this not talked about?
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MAgU5oOj,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-08T16:00:01.960+0000) > > https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=rekkles > https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=FNC+xMatty > https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=FYN+Hogane > > Take any challenger adc player > You can see that when they're not playing Veigar botlane, and pick an adc **THEY NEVER BUILD ARMOR PENETRATION DESPITE GOING TO LATE GAME** > > How is this not a problem? They manage to deal so much damage without wasting a slot to build armor penetration > > what's the point of this thread? > > > if armor is shreded by conqueror, bruisers (renekton E for instance), black cleaver then ADC don't need to build armor pen > Riot fix your game You are wrong. Rageblade is a % pen item. Lethality builds are a thing on some champs.
Rioter Comments
CLG ear (NA)
: https://i.imgur.com/PC012US.jpg[]
> [{quoted}](name=CLG ear,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=k4k0N5q5,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-07-08T23:42:57.684+0000) > > https://i.imgur.com/PC012US.jpg[] where do you even find these?
CLG ear (NA)
: https://i.imgur.com/ghp6R8q.jpg[]
> [{quoted}](name=CLG ear,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=k4k0N5q5,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-07-08T23:38:20.231+0000) > > https://i.imgur.com/ghp6R8q.jpg[] I saw in a cringe comp this one guy who decided to acknowledge and seriously believe / claim he was in an intimate relationship with his car. Do people do the same with fictional online characters?
CLG ear (NA)
: https://i.imgur.com/1YFDeWu.jpg[]
> [{quoted}](name=CLG ear,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=k4k0N5q5,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-08T23:14:41.824+0000) > > https://i.imgur.com/1YFDeWu.jpg[] But how would that actually work?
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=k4k0N5q5,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-08T22:57:30.330+0000) > > Riven is a lot like camille in that she can engage on targets that her team often can't, so while her priority targets might not be able to run from her, she isn't at luxury to make use of that except in fights where follow up exists. also, it's a single target silence, and her damage is lower. So now you need follow up from teammates, OR you need a more extended fight. And it's not like many champions can't peel this version of riven either. > > And riven can't always cc multiple people with third Q or W, maybe not so much at your level, but the higher you go, the better people get at spacing. Not to mention , she has to get close to do this at all, and that isn't always a thing. > > Riven is a champion that's formidable when things go her way and she can accelerate, and not so much when they don't and she can't. That will still remain true. Only problem there is Camille is a diver so her ability to access targets is easier than Riven. Two separate classes. Riven is a skirmisher. So yes she can dive but not in the same way. Skirmisher mobility spells are designed to allow them to keep repositioning around targets, staying constantly mobile and being hard to lock down. Divers just have the ability to do the one and done on priority targets. Defensive tools skirmishers have longer cd on their abilities. Windwall for example, Riven w or Fiora w. They don’t need large amounts of cc. Riven already has two forms but if you look at the rest (ekko, fiora, yasuo) they carry one form of hard cc. They are more damage heavy. So it wouldn’t make sense to steer Riven into a class that doesn’t exists by giving her more cc.
> [{quoted}](name=Phieldworker,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=k4k0N5q5,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-08T23:11:46.438+0000) > > Only problem there is Camille is a diver so her ability to access targets is easier than Riven. Two separate classes. Riven is a skirmisher. So yes she can dive but not in the same way. Skirmisher mobility spells are designed to allow them to keep repositioning around targets, staying constantly mobile and being hard to lock down. Divers just have the ability to do the one and done on priority targets. Defensive tools skirmishers have longer cd on their abilities. Windwall for example, Riven w or Fiora w. They don’t need large amounts of cc. Riven already has two forms but if you look at the rest (ekko, fiora, yasuo) they carry one form of hard cc. They are more damage heavy. So it wouldn’t make sense to steer Riven into a class that doesn’t exists by giving her more cc. Riven can't chase down targets endlessly in a teamfight environment, she still has problems being squishy, and her E is much less unbreakable than it is in a 1v1 or small skirmish. She is also losing out on a LOT of lifesteal without her current passive, you're really underestimating how hard it can be for riven to mollywhop priority targets, even if she is on pace. Not to mention, lots of champions and comps outright deny riven, and can handle her in the 1v1. Nobody said Riven and camille were exactly the same role, but if your argument is that riven can sit on her priority targets forever with a silence, then that was neatly refuted. Ekko is not an assassin, but his W is much larger in range, scope and for differnet purposes / use than riven's cc. Yasuo has two hard ccs, And safer ways to apply them. Yasuo also has windwall. Now, after that, I must ask, are you making things up as you go? lol.
: > [{quoted}](name=1 516 735 3508,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=k4k0N5q5,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-08T22:38:40.531+0000) > > Her kit wouldn't neccessarily be overlaoded, it would be annoying to lane against her for some champions, and in some cases, like the aforementioned fizz just not doable, but her teamfighting would be worse vs many compositions that have more time to peel her with lower lethal I don’t see how this would change how she team fights besides the fact that priority targets can’t run from her now. They already have a tough time but this would make less room for them to react because after they get knocked up they are silenced, then stunned. Yeah they don’t take the empowered auto but they still can’t do anything. I would say if anything would be reworked it would be something to do with her q. Like make it if you hold q on the 3rd q you do a longer dash and critically strike the first target it hits. If you just tap it it still does the knock up. That would be more thematically in line with Riven(she would charge the blade to do the empowered slash) because if you watch awaken you can see that she does a sweeping slash on Draven and it would still keep her ability to get over a wall but it would be decision making for Riven players, “so do I knock up multiple people or can I blast in and kill a couple with the empowered slash?”
> [{quoted}](name=Phieldworker,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=k4k0N5q5,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-08T22:53:31.210+0000) > > I don’t see how this would change how she team fights besides the fact that priority targets can’t run from her now. They already have a tough time but this would make less room for them to react because after they get knocked up they are silenced, then stunned. Yeah they don’t take the empowered auto but they still can’t do anything. > > I would say if anything would be reworked it would be something to do with her q. Like make it if you hold q on the 3rd q you do a longer dash and critically strike the first target it hits. If you just tap it it still does the knock up. That would be more thematically in line with Riven(she would charge the blade to do the empowered slash) because if you watch awaken you can see that she does a sweeping slash on Draven and it would still keep her ability to get over a wall but it would be decision making for Riven players, “so do I knock up multiple people or can I blast in and kill a couple with the empowered slash?” Riven is a lot like camille in that she can engage on targets that her team often can't, so while her priority targets might not be able to run from her, she isn't at luxury to make use of that except in fights where follow up exists. also, it's a single target silence, and her damage is lower. So now you need follow up from teammates, OR you need a more extended fight. And it's not like many champions can't peel this version of riven either. And riven can't always cc multiple people with third Q or W, maybe not so much at your level, but the higher you go, the better people get at spacing. Not to mention , she has to get close to do this at all, and that isn't always a thing. Riven is a champion that's formidable when things go her way and she can accelerate, and not so much when they don't and she can't. That will still remain true.
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