: This isn't a simple clarity tweak. You don't get to see the cooldowns for any other champion's abilities so why should you get to see yasuo's. The only time you would get to see a per unit cooldown is if you are the caster or the one affected.
{{champion:245}} - You know if he has ult or not if a clone is following. Not the same as seeing up-time, but functionally similar. The clone also pops up 4 seconds before Ekko can re-cast ult, so you get warned if you're fighting him. {{champion:11}} - You know if he has E or not based on the color/aura of his sword. {{champion:421}} - Tunnels. {{champion:102}} - Ult tied to Fury Bar. {{champion:8}} - Q
: How gameplay boards works:
Nah I like it, now we actually just need to tone down damage output and we'll be back to pre-jugg patch.
haenex (EUNE)
: I must destroy even hope I will bring despair - aatrox reworked 2018 danganronpa refrence? 🤔
...no. This isn't a concept exclusive to Danganronpa, media exploits the "give you hope, then crush it" cliche way too often.
: IE no longer gives critical strike. His only reason to buy the new IE is for the 80 AD and the 15% conversion of crit damage to true damage. But the entire passive, where it's verbabtim his passive that double crit strike, is invalidated for what is now one of the most expensive AD items in the game. And it's not really an inconsequential change - it's a core item in his kit that he's wasting money on.
{{item:3031}} doesn't give critical strike chance on its own, but what does that matter? It was never the first item in a Yasuo build to begin with. You always built a {{item:3046}} or {{item:3087}} first. By building {{item:3031}} second as per usual, you still hit 100% Critical Strike Chance. How? Simple: {{item:3046}} or {{item:3087}}: 30% {{item:3031}} passive: Grants 30% {{champion:157}}: Applies last as it doubles it from all sources, so it gives 60% ; 30% from {{item:3031}} and 30% from {{item:3046}} / {{item:3087}}. I don't understand where there is a waste of gold except for the fact that he wastes an excessive 20% crit chance.
: FYI you DON'T HAVE TO WIN LANE, you just have to go even
: So there's a couple of things here that you're completely missing. Wukong's passive grants him Armor and MR. But the great thing about this, it STACKS with ALL THE OTHER ARMOR AND MR IN THE GAME. Even the Gargoyle Stoneplate. His passive is in NO WAY completely invalidated if he builds Stoneplate, because it simply makes him that much tankier, and he will STILL have an edge if he builds it over other people who build it. Switch to Yasuo. His passive is verbatim the same as what's on Infinity Edge. The problem here - you can't go above 100% crit strike chance, and on an item Yasuo has always needed to buy, he's losing a TON of value from the item because it's duplicating a passive that can't compound on itself. And also, we've ALL bitched about Yasuo and the insane free power he gets from just building a few crit items. You put this frustration with that part of his passive with the fact that a single item essential to his build path now invalidates his passive, and you get the perfect opportunity to rework his passive into something less frustrating and that won't be duplicated by an item that can't stack with it. So Yasuo and Wukong aren't in the same boat really. Yasuo is the favorite punching bag of hate for everyone, and any opportunity to rework him to hopefully improve him and make him less of a chore I will be happy with. Wukong isn't hated on the same scale as Yasuo, and nor is his passive invalidated by Stoneplate like Yasuo's is by IE. So get off your high horse and come down to earth rather than starting to fire up a witch hunt.
What are you talking about? Yasuo's passive just takes the bonus crit from {{item:3031}} and doubles that as well, so he still gets the 100% crit chance from {{item:3031}} {{item:3046}} that he always gets, whereas other people only get 60%. Sure it wastes 20% crit in stats, But the new IE hardly invalidates it by wasting a measly 20% crit. Yasuo loses nothing with the new changes that any other champion did; a crit damage amplifier, but gained permanent true damages on autos instead. Nothing about Yasuo's passive is invalidated. I don't necessarily agree that Wukong's passive needs to be looked at specifically (although he needs a bit of a check), but Yasuo does not merit any form of change just because of an updated IE. The OP's point comes more of as "You'll basically update golden boy (X Champion) because of a single, inconsequential change, but my boy (Y Champion) gets literally no attention even though he needs it?" But neither of them need the work.
Seen (NA)
: Vote teemo. No Yasuo. No Ahri. No Zed. Maybe Zoe.
> [{quoted}](name=Seen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=X90IV6FA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-05T02:05:15.237+0000) > > Vote teemo. > > No Yasuo. > No Ahri. > No Zed. > > Maybe Zoe. Vote {{champion:17}} for Smash
: I mean your numbers seem quite scary but you did sacrifice boots so you are very easy to run down and catch and kill Or just see you coming and have the support suppress you for completing your goal. Especially since that build only has hp from trinity force and edge of night as protection. Youmuu's can help you run but it doesn't make up for a lack of boots. And as powerful as that seems, that much burst damage is still burst damage and if the only accessible target is a tank with 5k hp and 300 armour, then all of that falls apart. And again you have no boots so that tank is more than happy to catch up and stunlock you while you die to the rest of their team. And trust me, when anyone has access to 6 item builds (especially one that sold their boots for a 6th offensive item), then everyone is grouped together and 5man teamfighting and this is when assassins fall off the hardest because of that. Even when they have full build.
Not really easy to run down considering he still has {{item:3142}} 's active, {{item:3095}} 's proc, and {{item:3078}} 's stats. Definitely not as fast as possible with boots in combat, but out of combat flanking potential is still strong, and the ability to actually one-shot a carry while sacrificing only a bit of combat mobility is a fair (?) trade-off.
Rioter Comments
: yes but people can barely duel him even when they catch up with his blind and {{item:3151}}
{{champion:103}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:112}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:142}} Have fun choosing the third of the roster that has an extremely easy time against Teemo assuming both players are equally skilled. The rest of them are still in the favor of enemies, with a few up in the air, and only dedicated autoattackers getting screwed over by Teemo outright.
: Then just use ultimate hat. It wasn't removed, just jumped to domination.
The issue is no mages actually want to use the new rune, they liked the old one. The sorcery tree has just become a secondary tree with 2-3 good options and a bunch of random ass shit you never need.
: amumu and elise have escapes if they have a valid target mundo, jhin, karma, kayle, lulu, nunu, rammus, teemo, udyr, zilean all have a exellent movement steroids to let them zoom around. then there's cases of things like ziggs satchel and tf blink and sion ulti, and you're left with very few truly immobile champs
Mundo's movement steroid is his ult. Granted it's strong, having an ult be your mobility tool alone isn't reliable. Jhin's movement steroid is predicated on auto-attacking. If he's in range to auto, he's probably in trouble against mobile champions. Karma's movement steroid is pretty eh, unless you mantra I guess? Nunu's MS buff is hardly anything to write home about. Teemo's movement steroid is predicated on being out-of-combat. He goes nowhere the second he's caught out. If we're defining mobility by whether or not you just have movement steroids now, then almost the entirety of the roster has "mobility". But mobility creep has long since past the realm of movement steroids into dashes and gap closing, of which we see a significant pool of champions that just don't have it, and struggle because the game's current released are designed around it.
: How is this idiot {{champion:17}} immobile? With his W, he runs fast af and you cant even chase him cuz his shrooms slow
Because he has no real gap closers. The second a Teemo is caught, he isn't getting away because teh passive bonus on W is out-of-combat only, and the active bonus isn't permanent nor does it refresh the passive; unlike an Ekko, who could ult away or E over walls. Teemo is incredibly immobile by today's standards.
: Won't Hail of Blades end up being completely broken on Vayne?
It'll end up broken on Guinsoo's melees. Use the AS burst to full stack Rageblade in a teamfight without pre-stacking. Let Rageblade do the rest of the work.
: > [{quoted}](name=101100111000,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zfWEEEnU,comment-id=000400020000,timestamp=2018-05-30T03:06:16.721+0000) > > https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/12/californias-77-billion-high-speed-rail-project-is-in-trouble.html > > This is the same state that is close to spending $100B dollars on a train project that's in a perpetual delay from its $10B proposal infancy. Not too particularly sure California would even spend that money appropriately considering this massive shitstain on the budget. Hell, even Newsom isn't even voicing support for it, and he's the bloody Lt. Gov. Money’s better spent supporting crumbling states that rail against the idea of a big power giving financial aid to smaller powers/people, you say? Rather hypocritical, no?
> [{quoted}](name=JustMonika13,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zfWEEEnU,comment-id=0004000200000000,timestamp=2018-05-30T03:26:58.143+0000) > > Money’s better spent supporting crumbling states that rail against the idea of a big power giving financial aid to smaller powers/people, you say? > > Rather hypocritical, no? I'm pointing out that California also actually sucks at spending money, a problem with an increasingly obvious budgetary shortfall that probably won't even see completion because party leaders at both sides (except for Villaragosa, but whatever) are indicating that they don't support it. And the state has a general poverty problem as its low income and homeless population increases by the year. The idea that California will actually do fuck all with a few more billion a year is a pipe dream when it already can't take care of itself as is.
: > [{quoted}](name=101100111000,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zfWEEEnU,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-30T02:50:54.324+0000) > > http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2015/3/19/the-shrinking-middle-class-mapped-state-by-state > > http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/05/11/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/ > > Only about 43% of California's population is classified as middle class and it's easily been declining for over two decades, with recent trends averaging around 100,000 people migrating domestically per year. > > Officially, we've been below the national average for middle income earners since at least the year 2000. I don't know what you call it when our middle income population is going to be replaced by the low income population as the plurality other than a problem. 100k leaving the state sounds like a lot, until you realize that there's nearly 40m people in CA. Less than 1% of the state's population leaves per year. Yes high housing costs are a massive issue in CA, but they haven't gotten to the point of causing a mass exodus. Also I'd love to see a middle-class breakdown of CA on a county level, not just at a statewide level. If I went by the metrics you provided using the statewide median wage my parents make too much to be middle class, but going by the county media they are.
> [{quoted}](name=notFREEfood,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zfWEEEnU,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-30T03:09:32.812+0000) > > 100k leaving the state sounds like a lot, until you realize that there's nearly 40m people in CA. Less than 1% of the state's population leaves per year. > > Yes high housing costs are a massive issue in CA, but they haven't gotten to the point of causing a mass exodus. > > Also I'd love to see a middle-class breakdown of CA on a county level, not just at a statewide level. If I went by the metrics you provided using the statewide median wage my parents make too much to be middle class, but going by the county media they are. But the entire population of California isn't middle class, less than half of it is at this point. Assuming the 43% stat, Only about 17 million people are actually middle class in California. Sure, that leaves the percentage leaving at 0.5%, but two decades of people leaves that at 2 million, which is an actual issue. I don't understand why you're hung up on the idea that because it's not a "mass exodus" that it isn't a problem, since it so obviously isn't, but having a middle class fall CONSTANTLY from 60% to 43% with no actual signs of slowing down is going to guarantee an economic crisis in the prevailing years that should've been dealt with already. Just like California's perennial water issues. You can find By-County data on the census website [here](https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/nav/jsf/pages/index.xhtml) Or this [table, if this is what you're looking for](https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_16_1YR_S1903&prodType=table) Alongside this [table strictly showing the median value of homes by county](https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_16_5YR_B25077&prodType=table) Unless I just don't know what you want.
: > [{quoted}](name=Xion Moonray,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zfWEEEnU,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-05-29T13:09:49.595+0000) > > Meanwhile, the middle class in California is making a mass exodus due to the cost of living. Here's hoping that Silicon Valley and Hollywood can support the hilariously overblown welfare spending, because all that will be left by the end are the extremely rich and the extremely poor. > > But hey, when has socialism ever failed, eh? So, would you like your fellow poor as fuck red states to fail even more than they already do shall California stop subsidizing multiple poor red states like they’ve been having to do for ages now. That would work for your values, no? The whole anti-welfare deal and all. Works out for both sides. California gets more money to spend on itself and those that don’t like getting supported and preach self-preservation get to prove that they can handle their own problems like they want to.
> [{quoted}](name=JustMonika13,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zfWEEEnU,comment-id=00040002,timestamp=2018-05-30T02:58:59.985+0000) > > So, would you like your fellow poor as fuck red states to fail even more than they already do shall California stop subsidizing multiple poor red states like they’ve been having to do for ages now. > > That would work for your values, no? The whole anti-welfare deal and all. > > Works out for both sides. California gets more money to spend on itself and those that don’t like getting supported and preach self-preservation get to prove that they can handle their own problems like they want to. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/12/californias-77-billion-high-speed-rail-project-is-in-trouble.html This is the same state that is close to spending $100B dollars on a train project that's in a perpetual delay from its $10B proposal infancy. Not too particularly sure California would even spend that money appropriately considering this massive shitstain on the budget. Hell, even Newsom isn't even voicing support for it, and he's the bloody Lt. Gov.
: > [{quoted}](name=notFREEfood,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zfWEEEnU,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-05-29T14:45:07.297+0000) > > If that were true then our housing prices would be more sane. It's simple supply and demand; as long as the demand outstrips the supply prices will continue to rise and people like me will be stuck renting. Give it some time. The crash is going to happen at some point and some of the government efforts might make it happen sooner rather than later. But states near California are seeing massive price increases for housing and renting since people are leaving California on a large scale. And the last time I was in Sacramento passing someone homeless every 5 to 10 feet would suggest some huge problems. I wish i was exaggerating but I am not. I was near the area with lettered streets and it was really bad. I was there for several days due to work requests and the guy who was in charge of my department even said he will have to move to a cheaper state when he retires. But on the bright side the boomers might start dying in the next few years meaning housing might start becoming more affordable. Really wish I was 10 years older though with the job I currently have. I would have been able to afford a house 10 years ago after the market crashed and houses were being foreclosed left and right. But it sounds like banks are doing the same kind of loans that caused the crash 10 years ago so I might get a chance yet.
> [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zfWEEEnU,comment-id=000400000001,timestamp=2018-05-30T02:32:20.587+0000) > > Give it some time. > > The crash is going to happen at some point and some of the government efforts might make it happen sooner rather than later. > > But states near California are seeing massive price increases for housing and renting since people are leaving California on a large scale. > > And the last time I was in Sacramento passing someone homeless every 5 to 10 feet would suggest some huge problems. I wish i was exaggerating but I am not. I was near the area with lettered streets and it was really bad. I was there for several days due to work requests and the guy who was in charge of my department even said he will have to move to a cheaper state when he retires. > > But on the bright side the boomers might start dying in the next few years meaning housing might start becoming more affordable. > > Really wish I was 10 years older though with the job I currently have. I would have been able to afford a house 10 years ago after the market crashed and houses were being foreclosed left and right. But it sounds like banks are doing the same kind of loans that caused the crash 10 years ago so I might get a chance yet. The problem is already there. Upper income earners coming into the state naturally driving up housing costs by introducing stronger sources of income to real estate business. Lower income earners are renters on the whole, so there's no incentive to create or price housing except to tailor it to the particular pool of customers, and if the only people coming in are a bunch of rich people and other high earners, then middle class families will just continue leaving like they have for over two decades now.
: > [{quoted}](name=101100111000,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zfWEEEnU,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2018-05-29T16:14:44.620+0000) > > http://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265 > > It is true, net domestic migration has seen people leaving the state for over 20 years. The only reason California's population has been increasing is because of migration from Mexico and the natural birth rate is still above the death rate. That hardly looks like a mass exodus.
> [{quoted}](name=notFREEfood,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zfWEEEnU,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-30T02:01:21.125+0000) > > That hardly looks like a mass exodus. http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2015/3/19/the-shrinking-middle-class-mapped-state-by-state http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/05/11/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/ Only about 43% of California's population is classified as middle class and it's easily been declining for over two decades, with recent trends averaging around 100,000 people migrating domestically per year. Officially, we've been below the national average for middle income earners since at least the year 2000. I don't know what you call it when our middle income population is going to be replaced by the low income population as the plurality other than a problem.
: > [{quoted}](name=Xion Moonray,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zfWEEEnU,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-05-29T13:09:49.595+0000) > > Meanwhile, the middle class in California is making a mass exodus due to the cost of living. If that were true then our housing prices would be more sane. It's simple supply and demand; as long as the demand outstrips the supply prices will continue to rise and people like me will be stuck renting.
> [{quoted}](name=notFREEfood,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zfWEEEnU,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-05-29T14:45:07.297+0000) > > If that were true then our housing prices would be more sane. It's simple supply and demand; as long as the demand outstrips the supply prices will continue to rise and people like me will be stuck renting. http://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265 It is true, net domestic migration has seen people leaving the state for over 20 years. The only reason California's population has been increasing is because of migration from Mexico and the natural birth rate is still above the death rate.
: Remember when Riot killed rotating game modes because they were "too difficult to upkeep and QA"?
There were actually issues fyi: - Champion banning was bugged so it was disabled - Champion trading was bugged and also disabled - Certain champs were bugged and also disabled The fact is, ARURF barely scraped by, but no one really noticed because everyone is too busy being mad at Riot over Clash.
: If I remember correctly, placements use your normal mmr as additional reference as to where to place you. Fresh accounts naturally don't have high normal mmr, so that might cause you to get lower ranks.
> [{quoted}](name=DerMangoJoghurt,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=UkXwR5yo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-24T11:03:04.361+0000) > > If I remember correctly, placements use your normal mmr as additional reference as to where to place you. Fresh accounts naturally don't have high normal mmr, so that might cause you to get lower ranks. Nope, fresh accounts just generally get placed in low-mid silver except in fringe cases.
: > [{quoted}](name=101100111000,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Xpjoy9z8,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2018-05-23T08:52:48.008+0000) > > It's incredibly easy to understand: > - Find a gun > - Shoot the people who didn't find a gun > - Shoot the people who do have guns > > It just adds permadeath and a searching mini-game to a regular shooter tdm at the most basic level. Because these are massive player matches, no one expects to win, but actually winning over 99 other people is something to brag about due to the sheer magnitude. So it picks up popularity. Yeah, but it's counter intuitive too, and bound to start losing popularity pretty quick. Because it's one winner takes all, very few people in any given game will have incentive to continue playing for extended periods, especially if they can't win, and especially if they're ejected from the game and have to find an entire new queue to begin playing again. It's going to have it's 15 minutes of fame, but I can't see a game like this having the longevity to making any lasting marks in gaming due to the extremely high-risk, low reward system it utilizes.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Xpjoy9z8,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2018-05-23T13:51:39.021+0000) > > Yeah, but it's counter intuitive too, and bound to start losing popularity pretty quick. Because it's one winner takes all, very few people in any given game will have incentive to continue playing for extended periods, especially if they can't win, and especially if they're ejected from the game and have to find an entire new queue to begin playing again. It's going to have it's 15 minutes of fame, but I can't see a game like this having the longevity to making any lasting marks in gaming due to the extremely high-risk, low reward system it utilizes. Of course, everything is bound to lose popularity in the current gaming environment, a lot of these games are practically one-hit wonders with no actual long-term goals or agendas. The Battle Royale sub-category is just the latest in long lines of easy-to-make multiplayer games that require absolutely no real effort on the part of developers to actually create and manage, that also require no real commitment. That doesn't stop it from becoming mainstream. Fortnite is a time killer, and some people don't mind not winning as long as they get to run around and shoot a few people. To that end Fortnite fulfills the dinky casual players' goals, so people just play it.
mirAcIe (EUW)
: I still don't get how such a niche genre like Battle Royale managed to become mainstream.
> [{quoted}](name=mirAcIe,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Xpjoy9z8,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-05-23T08:35:53.378+0000) > > I still don't get how such a niche genre like Battle Royale managed to become mainstream. It's incredibly easy to understand: - Find a gun - Shoot the people who didn't find a gun - Shoot the people who do have guns It just adds permadeath and a searching mini-game to a regular shooter tdm at the most basic level. Because these are massive player matches, no one expects to win, but actually winning over 99 other people is something to brag about due to the sheer magnitude. So it picks up popularity.
: Relative to what it was before it's a big nerf but relative to other executes it still looks pretty strong considering that it has long cast range, it's AoE, it resets, and it teleports him.
It's ground-targeted and can miss, it only resets on kills, and it doesn't teleport if it doesn't hit anyone. Plus, the current nerfs make it scale less on bonus AD than Darius ultimate, and the execute only passes the 25% hp threshold on squishy champions, meaning Pyke's ult isn't effective against tanks like Urgot's is. Sure, it's a strong ability on squishy champions, but that's intentional. It's nothing obscenely overpowered anymore, and his damage on his basic abilities isn't anything to really write home about. Tap Q is incredibly short-ranged, Hold Q is ridiculously telegraphed, and his E delay makes it completely outplayable and easy to dodge, not to mention the fact that all these abilities have slightly below average AD scalings. His basic burst combo on his abilities alone don't do much. The only thing he has going for him over other AD champions is the fact that he has CC tied to his abilities, but they're also high cooldown so he can be punished heavily for missing a Q or E.
: How is that a "nerf into the ground"? That dudes ult was stupid to even have been the way it was before coming to the pbe
Because it lost over half of its scaling damage? How is cutting an ability's scaling damage in half not nerfing it into the ground?
vortex37 (EUW)
: Clash fairness with honor0 smurfs
Oh, Smurfs are going to start actively affecting Riot's competitive integrity again. Who knew.
: > [{quoted}](name=KlydeFrog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H7oWMgiv,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-20T23:44:43.294+0000) > > What items? {{item:3087}} {{item:3031}}
Aptest (EUW)
: had 2 goals: 1 curb early ganking VS laner 2 encourage early ganking VS jungler. jungle variety was not a goal
I for one enjoy jungle metas where {{champion:64}} is pick/ban /s
Jamaree (NA)
: My brain saw something far worst in the thumbnail.
: Wait a moment that is funny.
His sword gets bigger. Tada.
: tank teemo
The thought process is so: {{champion:17}} = Fuck you {{item:3022}} = Fuck you {{champion:17}} + {{item:3022}} = ???
PB4UAME (NA)
: Given the PBE videos I have seen, he works interestingly with things that affect bonus hp. People have gotten him to over 3k hp, which means they must somehow get him at least 600 hp beyond what he is supposed to have, so I wouldn't rule out Titanic or Sterak's because I'm not convinced that he won't scale with them in some way. But also recognize that you are talking about a pool of what, 4 items that are HP and AD? And Black cleaver and FM from what people are theorycrafting are two core items for him. That's more of these juggernaut HP/AD items than motherfucking Urgot can use effectively, as he can *ONLY* efficiently use TBC, and he is a juggernaut, the class these items were actually designed for. Forgive me if I have no sympathies for Pyke what so ever based on this alone. You are also forgetting that it allows him to get damage from non-damage items. He could get a sunfire/bami's and get a magic damage aura + AD, isn't that interesting? Or go a Deadman's Plate, get extra damage on hit, a speed up, some armor, oh and some AD too. How about a Righteous Glory to get himself in, stun people with his E, AoE slow them, get some armor, sustain, CDR, and hey, even some attack damage on it too. I really think you are dismissing options prematurely, and might not have thought through this as completely as you might first think.
That's a bug with Cinderhulk and other items/runes that increase health by a % rather than by a flat amount. Pyke is literally meant to never have any bonus health, so {{item:3053}} and {{item:3748}} are explicitly never going to scale well on him. I am also not forgetting that this lets him get damage from non-damage items, I specifically said: > [{quoted}](name=101100111000,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jk8zbJn9,comment-id=0001000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-16T22:10:43.694+0000) > > Full-on tank items will only provide about 25-32 AD (given the average range of 350 -450 HP on tank items), which means we never want to buy those on an ASSASSIN unless absolutely necessary. One by one: {{item:3001}} - Not worth it at all. {{item:3194}} - Niche use against mages like Cass, and even then you're an assassin, you should be killing mages, not trying to survive their sustained damage. {{item:3060}} - Pfft. {{item:3742}} - Not a TERRIBLE choice but you already have W and E providing you very strong mobility options. You won't need this item's passive in almost any case. {{item:3109}} - It's 250 HP. If you're buying this, it's not for the AD it'll give you, it's because your ADC needs more damage reduction and the actual tank won't buy it. Not to mention it doesn't provide many tanky stats for you. {{item:3056}} - Pfft. {{item:3143}} - I can see this against a crit adc like Ashe or Jhin, but for the passive specifically paired with {{item:3047}}, not for the armor and AD. {{item:3800}} - Again, the base stats alone aren't worth it, and stripping the health off of a 30 Armor item isn't a smart decision. You don't even really need the active, again, because you have a decent amount of mobility already in your kit. Not to mention you can get the same thing with a {{item:3142}} without the slow, but with more damage. {{item:3065}} - You COULD. Building a single MR item like this without any HP won't stop you from dying but you COULD. {{item:3068}} - A good contender with its high Armor stat line, I could see this being used against slower comps, or ones without a hardscaling adc. {{item:3075}} - Extremely high armor and low health means you can still use its passive against sustain champs/comps, but the low health means you get almost nothing in offensive stats. {{item:3083}} - You get over 50 AD in stats, but you never get the passive effective and it offers no resistances. Not worth. Bear in mind you're playing what is designed to be an assassin, not a skirmisher or even a juggernaut. The passive stripping him of bonus HP means that he'll always be squishier than any other melee assassin building tank like Ekko, and his high cooldowns means that he doesn't have the luxury of any real sustain damage like a tank Akali. Not to mention EVERYTHING scales in bonus AD: His grey health passive scales off bonus AD, his Q damage, his W MS buff, his E damage, and even the execute threshold on R. Higher cooldowns, bonus AD ratios on everything, literally can't build bonus health? He's literally driven towards building full damage in every way possible and killing in single rotation bursts, and nothing here affords him the luxury of going with defensive stats and playing more like a fighter. Not to mention any offensive stats he could derive from tank items are terrible and some of them doin't even have decent effects that would work well with his kit. You'll probably see one or two niche defensive item picks purely because the situation absolutely demands it, but otherwise he's incentivized to just build as much damage as possible by virtue of the fact that every other option is just ass in comparison.
PB4UAME (NA)
: AD is worth 35g a piece, HP is worth 2.67g. 35/2.67 = 13.11 14 ~ 13.11 Say you have a Ruby Crytsal, that's 150 hp for 400g. It will give him instead 11 AD worth ~385. Yes, there is a slight, but insignificant loss in pure gold efficiency provided that the stats are equally valuable, but AD as a stat is much more valuable than HP, because it gets scaled into abilities, and multiplied by attack speed, crit chance, and other effects as well, such as aa resets, tiamat, etc, and again, the difference is insignificant. You're getting at least 93% gold efficiency on the conversion alone if HP and AD can be substituted 1 for 1.
But most of the HP items available don't provide as much raw AD or penetration as pure AD items, or if they do, they don't provide passive abilities as desirable as raw AD passives. CLeaver is the only one that competes. {{item:3812}} = 80 AD, 10% cdr, physical spell vamp and Bleed effect {{item:3147}} = 55 AD, 18 Lethality, 10% cdr, Blackout and Nightstalker {{item:3142}} = 55 AD, 18 Lethality, 10% cdr, OoC and Active MS {{item:3814}} = 72.857142 AD (converting HP), 18 Lethality, Night's Veil {{item:3072}} = 80 AD, 20% LS, LS Shield {{item:3074}} = 80 AD, 12% LS, passive AoE and Active AoE, 50% LS applied to AoE damage. {{item:3071}} = 68.571428... AD (converting HP), 20% cdr, Cleave and Rage {{item:3022}} = 80 Raw AD, Icy {{item:3053}} = 75.571428 AD (Currently 94 base AD at Level 18, converting HP), Lifeline with no bonus HP for shielding {{item:3748}} = 72.142857 AD (converting HP), Cleave and Crescent with bad scaling. Two AD + HP items have terribly gold efficiency because their bonus HP scaling passives are designed to make up for the raw stat inefficiencies, not to mention one of these items doesn't even grant bonus AD with its AD stat for his abilities ({{item:3053}}). Now only two AD + HP items outright grants a large amount of AD with potentially useful passives, but one ({{item:3022}}) competes with other 80 AD items which have more useful passives, or even cdr (why the hell do you need a slow on an assassin with his own stun, a slow, and stealthed ms ability?) {{item:3071}} only gets away with it because it has its Armor cleaving passive, making it a reasonably valuable item for dealing with tanks. Full-on tank items will only provide about 25-32 AD (given the average range of 350 -450 HP on tank items), which means we never want to buy those on an ASSASSIN unless absolutely necessary. Most of the supposed synergy you get from an HP converting passive don't even fit in well because most of the HP + AD items you WOULD want to get have HP factors that make them useless otherwise. Pyke is just going to end up building full lethality + Cleaver like any other assassin, except now he has a passive which actively discourages him from ever building an HP items ever, be it in gold inefficiency or the loss of stat synergy with health-based items.
Pika Fox (NA)
: I mean, its not so inefficient that its restrictive. If the item has good abilities on it, it can still be very worth. Gold efficiency would be between 13 and 14 hp to ad. This still makes AD + HP options enticing as well.
Just countering the point that the conversion passive is actually cost-efficient; it's not. It's not a bad passive since it wastes only 1 HP in gold value per 1 AD gained from it, but there's no reason why it isn't just 1 for 1 gold efficient if you're going to be THIS close to the 1 for 1. It's also rather annoying that the AD you gain from AD + HP options isn't better than most full value AD items (Mallet gives 80 AD, you're better off spending the extra 100 gold on Death's Dance, Cleaver is really the only worthwhile AD + HP item because of the passive). Considering the limited range of viable items, at least.
PB4UAME (NA)
: Which is just slightly over the point at which it becomes cost efficient. Interesting that.
It's actually inefficient overall. The amount of health being converted is worth more in gold than the AD you get out of it, so any health items you build is a strict minus in gold efficiency. Pyke's passive is ironically acting as a barrier discouraging health items more than anything else.
: Pyke's Passive and Gold Efficiency
Pyke's conversion ratio is 1 bonus AD for every 14 bonus HP. This means that Pyke is losing 2.66 gold in stats for every 1 bonus AD he gets from health stacking. So yes, Pyke is ever so slightly wasting gold buying health items, even though he's supposedly a support champion.
: Being less susceptible to death by ADC early on is a pretty major buff to everyone though. And it's not just that the final build is delayed by 400g. They are quite a bit weaker the whole 1600g (i think that's zeal + new IE cost increase?) prior to them buying both. And even after they have both, the RNG crits aren't going to hurt as much as before (if it's a low armor champ being attacked anyway). Also the extra 10% crit doesn't come online until the zeal item is upgraded, which is an extra 200g than before. Anyway, Assassin vs ADC item spikes don't really correlate too much, since early ADC items have almost nothing to do with their survivability vs Assassins. I didn't know you were comparing those 2 specifically. I meant more in general ADCs are going to be weaker vs everything in the early game. > [{quoted}](name=101100111000,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MalJW7oi,comment-id=000b0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-08T05:03:16.021+0000) > > The power curve just got shifted slightly to the right, [overall power] wasn't pushed down in the slightest. Which is more or less what we wanted. I'm fine with ADCs having a strong late game. That's the intent of their role. What they shouldn't have is a good early game on top of exponential scaling.
> [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleeper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MalJW7oi,comment-id=000b00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-08T06:12:28.253+0000) > > Being less susceptible to death by ADC early on is a pretty major buff to everyone though. > > And it's not just that the final build is delayed by 400g. They are quite a bit weaker the whole 1600g (i think that's zeal + new IE cost increase?) prior to them buying both. And even after they have both, the RNG crits aren't going to hurt as much as before (if it's a low armor champ being attacked anyway). > ADCs will literally only be any amount of weaker in between the time they finish {{item:3031}} and a complete Zeal item from a {{item:1038}} {{item:3086}} base. And it's not like you're drastically less susceptible to death because the new {{item:3031}} {{item:3086}} will still have the same 40% Crit Chance it has now, on top of having an extra 10 AD. And the RNG crits don't hurt THAT much less than before. After all, we've already calculated the break-even point at 62.5 Armor (When True Damage IE out-stats Crit Damage IE). Hitting a champion that only has 40 Armor isn't going to drastically decrease IE's damage output. > Also the extra 10% crit doesn't come online until the zeal item is upgraded, which is an extra 200g than before. Which is a whopping 400g in value. The item combo is ironically more gold efficient than before. > Anyway, Assassin vs ADC item spikes don't really correlate too much, since early ADC items have almost nothing to do with their survivability vs Assassins. > > I didn't know you were comparing those 2 specifically. I meant more in general ADCs are going to be weaker vs everything in the early game. > > Which is more or less what we wanted. I'm fine with ADCs having a strong late game. That's the intent of their role. What they shouldn't have is a good early game on top of exponential scaling. I'm just saying, an extra 30 seconds - 1 minute of added down-time is hardly something to write home about as an outstanding success. Maybe extremely high elos and pro play can adjust strategies around this extra 30 seconds, but by and large we won't.
: You know what's great about the old BF -> Zeal -> IE path though? It's still a more delayed powerspike than any current builds.
Well yeah, a delay of 400 gold sure is delayed, but I don't really think the delay will create such a large impact that assassins will become OP. That and the two-item spike may be delayed, but it's arguably going to be stronger than now, providing more raw damage overall with true damage, 10 more AD, and 10% extra crit. The power curve just got shifted slightly to the right, it wasn't pushed down in the slightest. A large portion of the problems assassins have is that, regardless of their damage potential, supports (and coordinated play) make it difficult for a large portion of League's assassin design to succeed as assassins. Stormrazor and LDR won't changes this either.
: I don't see it happening actually. Their powerspikes are much more delayed now leaving room for other champions to win the early game and invalidate an ADC completely by not allowing them to scale. IE now has a cost requirement to work, zeal items up by 300g, big AD items up by 300g. Yeah they're stronger, but it takes longer.
Their regular two-item crit power spike was delayed by a measly 500 gold, which has been mitigated by the increased gold income (if you know how to last hit cannon minions). And the removal of crit chance from IE can be mitigated by a classic {{item:1038}} > {{item:3086}} > {{item:3031}} path. {{item:3036}} only sees a 200 gold price increase and the loss of a %hp scaling on damage which is mitigated by the shift to %total armor pen. {{item:3086}} items are only up 200 gold. {{item:3153}} and {{item:3072}} are 200 gold cheaper. Regular crit ADCs are not threatened by these changes. Their damage output on PBE is the same as live at worst, with the same item power-spikes. Of course {{item:3508}} ADCs are different, but that's only because the changes are actually substantial.
Slythion (NA)
: When you think on an individual level then ya, it's easy to fall into your mindset. And before I get lynched, no you shouldn't be able to carry those games. It sucks, but what are you gonna do about it. Statistically speaking, however, the *enemy* team should get that AP Shyvana or Inting Twitch *more* than you will because they have 5 players possible to fill that role while your team only has 4 (assuming you aren't going to be that person). Granted, variation and outliers are a thing which is why that mindset is really only 100% valid if you play *a lot* of ranked games, but it *is* correct. You should be able to climb even if you only go even literally every game. That's just math, personal bias and opinions don't matter.
> [{quoted}](name=Slythion,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gkdGRKZs,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-04T04:22:42.685+0000) > > When you think on an individual level then ya, it's easy to fall into your mindset. And before I get lynched, no you shouldn't be able to carry those games. It sucks, but what are you gonna do about it. > > Statistically speaking, however, the *enemy* team should get that AP Shyvana or Inting Twitch *more* than you will because they have 5 players possible to fill that role while your team only has 4 (assuming you aren't going to be that person). > > Granted, variation and outliers are a thing which is why that mindset is really only 100% valid if you play *a lot* of ranked games, but it *is* correct. You should be able to climb even if you only go even literally every game. > > That's just math, personal bias and opinions don't matter. That's speculative and naive, you can't tell an individual that "the enemy team has a greater chance of having idiots" in a team-based game and get away with it like that, it's just not rational. What do you tell every other player in the game that their input doesn't matter because THIS GUY over here is the only constant? No. Performance is variable and even a given individual won't have consistent play between games. You cannot apply your "stat-based principle" to every individual of this game and get away with it. Every player is a variable, all ten of them. The system just averages them out and pretends to have balanced rosters. Usually it will be alright, but often enough you'll find a lopsided match-up that nothing can be done about. The game is decided by the weakest link, both teams have an equal chance of having the shittier player, the individual in question is no exception. The only difference here is no one on the boards would realistically bother talking about the games where THEY were the shittiest player in the game and cost their team the match. Very often you'll have that one game where some OTHER idiot on their team fed, threw the match-up for them, and then someone comes out of the woodwork and tosses them the placebo "YOU'RE THE CONSTANT" pill as if it's actually an answer. It's not.
: "Wukong was once known as Kong, but upon besting his teacher, he gained an honorific reserved for
Because he probably has a first name that we haven't received because we only ever call him "Master Yi", not "Master ______ Yi", so it's probably the first/given name that gets the Wu honorific.
: I clearly didn't mean that Sion literally only had 2900g worth of item stats and tristana had 6500g. The whole premise of my original post is that the whole context of the adc changes isn't aimed at late-game power, but that it is actually aimed at changing the power curve.
And my point is that the power curve is practically unchanged, and actually just establishes a stronger late game for crit-based adcs without actually changing much of the problems with 2 damage power spikes. Nothing about these specific changes really shifts the power curve. I showed that with only 8 AD difference in raw stats, the new pbe iteration of IE effectively breaks even against any squishy targets while actually having increased effectiveness against tankier targets. Nothing is being lost in this power curve which would indicate that this is a change rather than a net buff.
: > [{quoted}](name=101100111000,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vujrNylc,comment-id=000e00000000,timestamp=2018-05-04T02:31:07.845+0000) > > I don't know where you're getting that I said it adds 20% true damage, I used 100 AD as the base damage stat for live calculations and 110 AD as the base damage stat for pbe calculations, because the 10 AD buff exists. > > But yeah, I now understand you're trying to point out that the new system will be more efficient, I'm a bit too focused on the practical superiority for the new system accounting for more changes. I saw 220 and miss interpreted it since I have not been including the 10 AD in the calculations. I have decided I can't really get to into detail about the LW changes since base armor is different for everyone but it will make it better against marksmen and since flat is applied after % fro mwhat I understand Rengar will be doing basically true damage to many marksmen.
{{item:3035}} changes from 35% Bonus to 10% Total are pretty much just bad in general for the item. At any base armor value, if you have a bonus armor value greater than 40% of your base armor value (e.g. 100 Base Armor, 45 Bonus Armor, 145 Total Armor), then the new 10% Total is strictly inferior. In the worst case scenario, {{champion:201}} has the highest Base Armor at Level 18 (115), he just needs to build 46 more Armor for the new LW (10% Total) to be worse than its old form. Most staple armor items grant this alone. {{item:3036}}'s penetration stats are just outright better all the time. {{item:3033}}'s penetration stats become worse on pbe than live once the attack target has a bonus armor value that is over 250% greater than the base armor value (e.g. 100 Base Armor, 260 Bonus Armor, 360 Total Armor). If you want to calculate which armor penetration items are better in a single slot: {{item:3142}} = 18 Lethality {{item:3036}} - If the target has over 51.428571... Armor, this item is more efficient than a Lethality item. This item is a better pen item naturally against every champion in the game by around Level 14, at which point everyone exceed the threshold. {{item:3033}} - If the target has over 72 Armor, this item is more efficient than a Lethality item. This item is a better pen item naturally on every champion at Level 18 bar three champions ( {{champion:74}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:61}} ) Unless I messed up somewhere when I figured this out. Edit: It just occurred to me I didn't explain how I arrived at these conclusions. Equation time! TAP = Total Armor Pen BAP = Bonus Armor Pen X = Point of Base Armor Y = Point of Bonus Armor Calculating strict LW changes: TAP = 0.1X + 0.1Y BAP = 0.35Y If TAP = BAP, then 0.1X + 0.1Y = 0.35Y 0.1X = 0.25Y 0.4X = Y So TAP and BAP are equal when Y (Bonus Armor) = 40% of X (Base Armor), and is subsequently greater at any value when Y is greater than 40% of X. The same can be done to Mortal: 0.25X + 0.25Y = 0.35Y 0.25X = 0.1Y 2.5X = Y So TAP and BAP are equal when Y = 250% of X, and is subsequently greater at any value when Y is greater than 250% of X.
: > [{quoted}](name=101100111000,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vujrNylc,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2018-05-04T02:04:16.145+0000) > > You're calculating A as 100 for both PBE and Live even though PBE IE has 10 more AD outright? You should be adding 10 damage to your PBE calculations if you're going to make a straight 2 item powerspike comparison since IE has 10 more AD straight. > > You'll find the 10 AD buff narrow the raw damage difference so much there's no real disadvantage to the 2 item powerspike despite the changes. > > C.C. x (AD x Crit Damage) + (1 – C.C.) x AD > > Live: .5 x 100 + .5 x 250 = 175 > > PBE: .4 x 110 + .6 x 220 = 176 > > Welcome to straight buffs. :^) This is jsut a damage calculation releating to the avrage damage output with the crit 2 systems for IE. I have not missed that factor but was focused on the actual calculation of damage done by the crit systems of old and new. If going for an actual situation where you might see this you can calculate it out using a level 12 Caitlyn with a base AD of 83.5 Also it says it converts 20% of critical strike damage to true damage. It does not say it adds 20% true damage.
I don't know where you're getting that I said it adds 20% true damage, I used 100 AD as the base damage stat for live calculations and 110 AD as the base damage stat for pbe calculations, because the 10 AD buff exists. But yeah, I now understand you're trying to point out that the new system will be more efficient, I'm a bit too focused on the practical superiority for the new system accounting for more changes.
: Just to be clear, what items are you assuming they have? Because IE + Shiv on live is 500g cheaper than it currently is on PBE.
I clearly started my post assuming that: A) Tristana has Level 11, {{item:3031}} + {{item:3087}} (my other assumptions are Precision + Resolve with Alacrity) B) Sion has Level 11, {{item:3143}} as per your claim And I said assuming they're both Level 11 just for base stat purposes. We can calculate all of this without even assuming champions if you want.
: the 20% true damage only applies to crits, you will need a zeal item to do true damage.
Building {{item:1038}} > {{item:3086}} > {{item:3031}} is already a thing.
: The Inf. edge change on PBE is a buff against anything with more than 62.5 armor
You're calculating A as 100 for both PBE and Live even though PBE IE has 10 more AD outright? You should be adding 10 damage to your PBE calculations if you're going to make a straight 2 item powerspike comparison since IE has 10 more AD straight. You'll find the 10 AD buff narrow the raw damage difference so much there's no real disadvantage to the 2 item powerspike despite the changes. C.C. x (AD x Crit Damage) + (1 – C.C.) x AD Live: .5 x 100 + .5 x 250 = 175 PBE: .4 x 110 + .6 x 220 = 176 Welcome to straight buffs. :^)
: It's a little bit weaker, costs more (and is therefore delayed) and makes an early Randuin's Omen that much more effective. I have no issue with Marksmen being able to melt any other class. I just want them to come online like 5-10 minutes slower so Mid, JG and Support can take more control in the early-to-mid game.
I've done some math. I took a Level 11 Tristana and a Level 11 Sion as baseline examples. Assume Tristana has {{item:3031}} + {{item:3087}} (ignoring Shiv passive for damage calculation) Live Trist: 156.1 AD 1.149312 AS 50% Crit 250% Crit Damage PBE Trist: 166.1 AD 1.149312 AS 60% Crit 200% Crit Damage Raw DPS can be calculated with the following annoyingly long formula: Raw DPS = AS x (Crit Chance x (AD x Crit Damage)) + AS x ((1 – Crit Chance) x AD) True DPS (for PBE IE) = .2 (AS x (Crit Chance x (AD x Crit Damage))) Which leads us to this: **Live Raw DPS = 313.9633056** **PBE Raw DPS = 305.44115712** So PBE IE + Shiv combo outdamages Live outright in raw damage. Sion: 118.3 Armor (~54.2% Damage Reduction) -20% Crit Damage Mod -15% AS Mod So Trist: Modded AS: 0.9769152 Randuin's DPS = .542 (AS x (Crit Chance x (AD x Modded Crit Damage)) + AS x ((1 – Crit Chance) x AD) **Live DPS = 136.377586610496** **PBE DPS = 146.21559823681536 (35.04937277952 True DPS)** Unless I messed up my math entirely, the PBE 2 item start deals as much or more DPS than live against any target, although the difference diminishes with higher armor. The damage is clearly not lower. Edit: Yup, I did math wrong, The damage is slightly lower raw, and PBE outpaces Live as armor gets stacked. Being like 8 AD weaker in raw damage is hardly worth noting when you never deal raw damage in this game, so my point still stands.
: I agree with your math, but it's actually kinda irrelevant to the point of these changes. The point of these changes was that a) LW items are no longer mandatory which means more build diversity and b) IE + Zeal item powerspike isn't nearly as strong. That said, I still won't be happy with Marksmen until Enchanter Shield Duration gets a hefty nerf.
IE + Zeal powerspike will have 10% more crit, 10 AD, unreduceable true damage on crits, and realistically only sacrifices the crit damage multiplier. It's hardly any weaker, it's arguably just as strong early game, especially against tank scaling. Last Whisper items being % Total Armor Pen makes them mandatory again. LDR will penetrate more armor than any Lethality item against every champion past Level 14, or anyone with over 51 total armor (72 total armor if you build Mortal, which all but 4 champions reach at Level 18 naturally).
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