: Thank you for putting it more eloquently than I did. And I agree that Draven isn't shit. I merely see rageblade as the problem, but I guess I didn't make that clear and now every Jhin main is just circle jirk downvoting our message over here. Thanks again.
Most people are stubborn as fuck, if someone is faced with something that interferes with their preconceived belief, they're going to ignore it or discredit it until it's impossible for them to.
: There's alot wrong with this argument. First of, Draven has never had the hardest hitting crits, that has almost always belonged to Caitlyn and she still rivals Jhin to this day. Draven is an early game bully who has the best level 1 in the entire game, has consistent late game damage, and actually gets attack speed, letting him benefit more from stuff like lifesteal than Jhin. > now when you can play a much higher range with some utility This has never been the case, they have equal auto attack ranges. Unless you're referring to spells, in which case Jhin's q is still very short range, his W does virtually no damage and is one of the easiest spells to miss, and his ulti deals no damage without lethality and against anyone with armor, not to mention Draven's ult is global. > In my opinion, he's much safer to play Again that's just wrong. Jhin doesn't have an on demand movespeed buff, he'd need to stop to auto to deal that. Draven also has his E, a really useful self-peel tool. Jhin just has his traps and W, both of which have a long cast animation and are things you can much more easily avoid. Jhin is the least mobile AD in the game, Draven atleast has his w. > doesn't rely on snowball anywhere near as hard as draven That's because Draven snowballs harder. There's a reason his passive exists and why they've nerfed it before. A Draven who gets ahead stays ahead, because he gets a load of extra gold ontop of snowballing so he has an item up on someone who'd be on equal KDA. Jhin has an awful mid game if he's building crit, which is the only good way to build him right now, where as Draven still provides good damage at most points in the game. Jhin is still much easier to catch when he's ahead because the only thing he has to save him is flash or if the enemy by some miracle steps on a trap. You can be 20/0 on Jhin but that someone relevant Rengar? He can still kill your ass the minute you leave your team, Draven has answers to that and can easily 1v1 anyone when ahead.
> Draven is an early game bully who has the best level 1 in the entire game That is not true. Olaf has a better level 1. Fiora has a better level 1. Braum has a better level 1. Even if you just meant for ADCs, that may be true, but so what? He could be the best level 1 adc, but it might not matter too much depending on the lane matchup. Botlane is not a solo lane, it is a 2v2. > Unless you're referring to spells, in which case Jhin's q is still very short range, his W does virtually no damage and is one of the easiest spells to miss, Jhin is a MUCH HIGHER RANGED champion than Draven for all botlane purposes. You clearly have NEVER played Draven based on EVERYTHING in your post. Everything your saying is so uninformed that if I had to guess, I would say your entire experience with Draven is from reading his wiki article. Jhin's Q BOUNCES and is a GOOD poke ability in lane. His W is a GREAT setup ability, most ADCs do not have such a strong CC ability in their kit. It allows Jhin's support to do whatever the hell he wants, it gives Jhin his movement speed bonus so he can attack without retaliation if he's not an idiot, allows him to hit the rest of his kit. To say that it doesn't do much damage is so naive. Pre 6, Draven's entire damage comes from his auto attacks, which he has a low range for. He is still a very strong laning champion, with his reset on his W, his E, and his passive which puts a lot of pressure on the enemy to not die to him. I can't discredit these facts. But for YOU to discredit Jhin's kit by saying all this horseshit out of context, like "Jhin's W is one of the easiest spells to miss" (ENTIRELY HORSESHIT!) is actually kind of sickening. Easiest spells to miss? Did you forget that we're talking about botlane, a lane where there are 2 CHAMPIONS!? Have you EVER played a game in this lane? Do you know how this works? You have a support champion, a champion that protects, or CCs, or engages. It is almost INVALUABLE to have an ADC with the power to root an enemy off of your spells. Jhin's W is almost IMPOSSIBLE to miss if your support has any sort of root, stun, disable. It's free. In fact, through your entire post you consider these two champions as though they're in a fucking void, just 1 on 1. Rarely the case. > Draven has consistent late game damage Draven is, by design, easily **THE WORST LATE GAME ADC**. Easily. His mobility is entirely movement speed based (and compared to Jhin's movement speed at that point, it is pathetic), his only peel is his E. He can't sit back in teamfights like Jhin can. He does not > actually get attack speed A full build has 1 or 2 attack speed items at most. Usually 1. He relies entirely on his attack damage bonus from his Q, and builds mostly AD to synergize with the fact that his Q scales off AD. This makes him SHIT late game, as without attack speed and only having mortal reminder or lord dom's, he cannot shred tanks as effectively or quickly as any other adc. Jhin, on the other hand **ACTUALLY GETS ATTACK SPEED**. A meta full build for Jhin would include both rapid fire AND Guinsoos. Sure, it's converted to AD instead of actually being attack speed. But guess what, dude? It's done so at an INSANE RATIO, giving him an INSANE amount of bonus attack damage, which guess what? Is converted INTO even MORE AD on hit with Guinsoos! Oh wait, what's this? Guinsoo's also has a unique passive? What does it say, you might ask? Here: "Basic attacks grant 8% attack speed, 4% bonus AD, and 4% AP for 5 seconds, stacking up to 6 times, granting a maximum of 48% attack speed, 24% bonus AD, and 24% AP". Insane. So this means that Jhin is speeding across the map every auto attack, as well as getting an **UNGODLY** amount of amplified attack damage every hit. At 6 stacks, I'm certain that he can do over 1k damage autos to tanky boys (late game). > Again that's just wrong. Jhin doesn't have an on demand movespeed buff, he'd need to stop to auto to deal that. This quote is in response to the FACT that Jhin is safer to play than Draven. I'm sure anyone who has played both champions and has a brain will tell you that Draven is by far less safe to play than Jhin. If you've read any of this post, you'll probably concede that. Does Draven get to stay 2 screens away helping his team root an enemy, and then hit them with all his ult shots? Hmm... Yeah. If you want to play safe on Jhin, you can still cs decently with your W, and Q. Draven just has to sit back and cry. Or use his ult. I haven't even mentioned Draven's passive. If you die with Draven's passive up, you lose most of your stacks. **FACT: Draven needs to be significantly ahead to function EFFECTIVELY. If he is even with the enemy ADC, he is BY DESIGN: BEHIND.** If Jhin is stepping up, he is even more defeneless than Draven. Draven has his E, his W. Sure. But why step up if you know you're in danger? There really isn't a good answer. For Draven, there might be. > Jhin just has his traps and W, both of which have a long cast animation and are things you can much more easily avoid (compared to Draven's E) Incorrect. His W, used as it should be used, is undodgeable. > Jhin is the least mobile AD in the game, Draven atleast has his w. As I've already mentioned, this is untrue once we get to late game. Ashe, Draven, Varus, they're all less mobile than Jhin late. Ashe is less mobile at all points in the game. > A Draven who gets ahead stays ahead Incorrect. Draven is an easy target to CC and focus (unlike Jhin, for all intents and purposes) in teamfights. And like I've said, if Draven is only slightly ahead or equal, he is BEHIND. More untrue points in the rest of your post, but I've already addressed them, so I see no point in writing more to respond. **The intent of this post was not to try and say that Draven is shit. He isn't. My point is that Jhin is an inherently imbalanced champion due to his passive, and when an item like Guinsoos is changed in the way that it was, it creates the perfect storm. It's not fun to have to take the L simply because the game was stalled long enough for Jhin to become God. Also, it made me very sad to see an uninformed idiot say these uninformed and idiotic things without any consequences or rebuttal.** Thanks
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: Okay this is just friggin' cool
That is god damn incredible. Never knew this.
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18skeltor

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