: Zoe retrieves; Neeko borrows; Sylas copies None of these Champions take anything from anyone. Zoe does not take Summoner Spells, she retrieves Spell Shards. If you use Flash and Zoe picks up the Spell Shard, does that mean you no longer have Flash? Of course not. You still have it, so nothing was taken from you. I don't feel like Neeko's needs explaining: she is temporarily borrowing the form of an ally. Nothing is being taken from them. And if Sylas hijacks an enemy ultimate, are they unable to use theirs? No, that's not the case, because he did not take anything from them. He just copied them. Please do not spread misinformation.
zoe copies the summoner spell, neeko copies her ally, sylas copies his enemy you could also say zoe creates something from nothing or that she recycles, that neeko uses camouflage and deception and that sylas steals... problem is, two of them are fairly hard to actually balance when their effectiveness depends upon their opponents and in zoe's case, RNG
GigglesO (NA)
: Your title is wrong. Riot's balancing is like trying to patch up a sinking boat with a thousand holes Is more like Trying to patch a ship by adding more holes.
"We fixed the ocean!" what about the ship? "what ship? I don't see a ship. Do you see a ship?"
: so, you're saying, there's a chance?
give them a few million and almost 2000 years, then yes, there's a chance
Velasan (NA)
: I would be curious to see some real numbers as to whether the game is declining. I mean, I feel that way sometimes, particularly with the game quality this season, however, I've yet to see any actual evidence that's true. For me personally, the game was about at it's best in Season 7. That's not even nostalgia speaking, some of my champs weren't even all that great during s7, and I started in s4 during the Rengar and Khazix era. At the time though the game could still get messed up for a week or so during a bad patch, but then it felt like that would get fixed by the time the next patch rolled around. Now it's like the whole game is just always on that one bad patch that never seems to end. The game is playable, but frustrating and not as fun. I would rehash why that is, but I think everyone has done it to death by now including myself in a number of posts. Riot seems to have their own idea of where they want the game to go and are glued to it.
lolalytics shows trends where players can have as drastic of a change as a 65% drop off (almost 2/3 players) or as drastic as up to a 185% increase with players varying in ranked between 14 million and 40 million https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/home/ and of course, the website only shows data from the past year, so there's no way to compare
Arcflare (NA)
: Heres the main problem with comparing the old rune system and the new rune system. The old runes were just flat/%/scaling stats with a lot of masteries that also give small flat benefits. The old ones allowed people to be more skill expressive early on rather than just allowing runes to do all the work for you because you didnt have the gold to get the super broken items yet. The new rune system puts waaaaay too much power into the runes. When literally all your trading coming from waiting for runes to be up thats when you know theres way too much power in runes. In mid lane its "is electrocute up? If yes then all in. If no then wait for it to come back up" In top lane its basically the same thing, stack conq and all in. The biggest problem is they took a lot of the old broken as hell items and just moved that power into runes. For whatever reason they never thought to remove iceborn from the game when they made glacial augment. Glacial augment is one of the most tilting runes in the game by far because it also augments items that shouldnt even have a slowing passive. It's bad enough when a mage can already 100-0 you in a combo even with over +100 MR as an adc. But if they take glacial, good luck trying to run away if you do somehow manage to survive the initial burst because youll be moving at a snails pace. Theres definitely more dmg in the game early on because of the runes. Its hard to say if theres more dmg late game because of how insanely strong items used to be and some still are very strong, just not DFG strong.
it's been so long I don't really remember my remarks but one concern of mine was that it put a pay wall to every strategy. I remember going even, pantheon vs pantheon, but he had a large amount more armor than me at the start of the game, and came out on top of trades, despite our combos being exactly the same
Zertryx (NA)
: The old runes allowed me to setup pages for bad matchups of champs i played. For example I am a Teemo main, i use to play teemo top a lot one of my worst matchups is Pantheon, the old runes allowed me to pick armor and health to survive the lane so later i could become useful tot he team while also not feeding panth. But if i was against a lane i was strong against i had a page that let me maxamize my atk speed and ap. With the new runes I cant help my short comings all i can do is make it so i "do more damage" but against a bad matchup more damage wont always help and it will just allow the enemy to snowball easier, there was alot more variance with the old runes, more options available to me than just more damage in different ways. Oh well, now that TFT is out and the main game is kinda poop atm i just wont play it till they fix this snowball fiesta of everything 1 shots everything
I liked cooldown reduction myself. It wasn't the "best" but it allowed me to adapt to situations faster, such as getting 1 item and having half or three fourths of the cap quickly
Pxerkza (EUNE)
: ofcourse im getting downvoted the boards users is majority crybabies that have no thoughts of their own "muh game was better back in the day" yeah i have the fond memories of Lineage 2 playing with the clan and going on raids and doing 500 people castle pvps and the moment i install an old populated server with 5k players and just try to play i get disgusted most people have no idea that their memories are affected by nostalgia and nostalgia is best left unvisited just because reality is often not what our memories are the game was far from good back in the day it was great because it was by comparison the best thing most of us experienced and now that we have other high quality games for a frame of reference league doesn't seem the best that doesn't mean that the game is bad or worse tho but these creatures seem to think like that just because hashinshin and iwdominate are a thing
it couldn't have anything to do with "crybabies" , "rose tinted glasses" and a perception of other people as if there is no contribution that they could possibly offer? here's a quote from this very post "no thoughts of their own" you also sling insults or derogatory remarks every other sentence...
: Yes, Eve could instagib squishies with DFG/Ult combo + E + Qs when she had DFG + moby boots + Deathcap + Lichbane. For the rest of them, you are flat out wrong. Akali needed to Q, then wait for the Q CD, then R AA Q E R, and she would maybe take them down 50%. MAYBE. If she has items. Talon's damage was laughable at all stages of the game unless EXTREMELY far ahead. It's why he wasn't meta until like season 5 or 6 when offensive items and runes got stronger, defensive items got weaker, and then his silence became super oppressive....at which point he was reworked. EDIT: Just saw Rengar....I do agree with Rengar. He has always been obnoxious....though incredibly feast or famine.
well, not that I (another person) disagree with the other stuff here, but talon used to be pretty much the ONLY champion able to 100/0 burst and he compensated for that with long cooldowns and short range everybody else usually waited for 70% for a kill threshold
: Ye bring back my 1% crit chance pls thx
certainly better than 100% chance of half your damage as a triggered ability
: > If your official forum is filled with negative feedback than you obviously messed up somewhere. Pfft LoL's community has been toxic ever since I joined in 2013. I couldn't tell you **why** but generally ill-tempered people just gravitated to the game.
teenagers and people indoctrinated by TV and the US educational system competition is also highly aggressive because there tends to be stakes, such as popularity, money or even just self-esteem or esteem to others for example, the #1 player in the world could probably say something totally wrong just to say it and their influence as number 1 would make people more inclined to believe it
: Yes, the art/lore section, because people there make actually GOOD posts.
and the BAD posts in the boards are typically ignored entirely with barely any upvotes and views unless it is a VERY hot topic that people are trying to increase the visibility of with multiple threads by different people Anyone can say "Mundo does too much damage!" that doesn't make it right or that anyone will listen to it quite a few of those bad posts just list what their opponents did and not what they might have done to cause it, as just an example
: Gameplay + boards proved they will never listen. They asked for well thought out feedback, then decided they really just don't have the time, nor the inclination to listen. A shame really, especially for a small indie company.
don't forget that everything had to be constructed in essay format, which is awful and literally does nothing to help the validity of a statement their approval standards were "you can not meet our standards"
: Again. Look at how PRO supports play. Pro Supports DO CS. They monitor the gaps In adc coverage, and capture what they do not. Pro play supports average 60-140 CS a game, depending on the support. Also, Pyke's E + Q could 100% secure a wave once he has 2 items. "Burning a wave" is hogwash.
while catching CS that would be lost is valuable, if they make changes based around pro-play, it tends to be a terrible change because pro-play is a different game with different circumstances than even the best players
Razelth (NA)
: Other than the 2 summoner spells Riot hasn't really declared all those to be rules of the game. If you can give me a quote from Riot declaring those to be rules of this game, I'll gladly join you guys in attacking Riot balancing philosophy. Doesn't that site say that supposedly 38 million Platinum+ players were analyzed to get those stats for 9.13? Sorry what you're saying is kind of confusing me. How does it show that less players are playing the game because of how Riot is balancing it? To me, it looks like it has been increasing since 9.1 to now.
well, they never actually gave any rules(other than the summoner's code, which is very vague and mostly talks about verbal things)...that's why things such as the solo bottom strategies cause so much controversy however, what they did do was show consistency for most of the game's development. It's the reason why there are such things as that a champion's likely most often-used offensive ability is on Q and other similar standards for fluid transition between champions as an example of controversial setups, yasuo premiered in season 3. He was one of league's few champions that actually pushed a one-sided edge. when it came to bans, he was not powerful enough (frustrating, sure, but not powerful enough) to show up in the limited bans for the time. He did however go against the system and make most ranged champions useless against him. Vayne shared a similar problem, but for the time, her numbers were balanced and the state of the game was fairly healthy (lots of crowd control, a front-line, etc). Interestingly, with her numbers properly tuned, she was not one-sided however, that was easily changed. When she was meta in season 4 and 5, she could easily steam-roll a team if covered, hence her hyper-carry nature I believe it was Scarizard, "if vayne is meta, something is wrong" , though I think this actually means what I call a "high" meta, which is 8% to 15% pick rate. ordinary meta is 3 to 8 %, extreme is above 15% #anyway, back to data. While it does show an increase, 9.1 was the start of the season, so players that took a break tend to come back. Why these numbers are important, however, is the drastic shift in player count that occurs. With these numbers, you see drops of roughly 25% at a time, even over 50% in the worst cases ------------ #interestingly, I wonder which the website means. It states that X players have been analyzed, but it also states X champions have been analyzed I should probably revise my earlier post, but I'll see what you think first
ToolooT (NA)
: got autofilled jungle today. I never play jungle. I literally unlocked Nunu two days ago and played a single normal game with him. Proceeded to pick him as my jungle pick. Fed the shit out of our vayne, counter jungled eve, counter ganked her, took drags and baron. Finishing the game with S-. You can be autofilled and do good. You just have to try harder.
well, that game there was someone with a 60% win rate on your team, another player with almost double the played games of the opponents (over 800 games this season), another player who has only played their champion 4x this season(shen, an opponent) then factor in that BOTH your team's kills and assists were DOUBLE the opponents...it seems more like it was a one-sided match
: If a support main goes top... and is against Darius... why not pick Soraka. She counters the shit out of him.
or lulu, or really any support with targeted or near-targeted crowd control and decent poke damage
: Did you really think it was ever possible to balance a game as massive as league?
it is possible, especially if you actually play it and listen to the playerbase where things get weird though is when it's based on a product or when money ends up making the product as part of the service take for example card games. You can re-release old-cards later with new restrictions, but you can't just rewrite the ones that are already given out Now, players often create new metas...thing is, most of those changes have to do with number amounts and these changes go in cycles. If a mechanic is what causes the problem, then the mechanic is likely needing change
Razelth (NA)
: > Riot also nerfed yorick for doing well in bronze because people were using him to get out of bronze, have tried to give MANY controversial buffs in the worst possible ways (this one is also controversial because it removes a natural counter-play to an aggressive champion should the Renekton player focus on it) Everything Riot does is controversial to the boards. > There are a lot of bad posts on the boards...those same bad posts usually go completely ignored and fade into obscurity. Of course, "brainpower" seems to be going away as well when such a large percentage of Riot's community has claimed to quit or stop playing until Riot fixes the many problems they have created, so there are by comparison, less players with "brainpower" now Where do you get data showing that "a large percentage of Riot's community" has quit? > My point is, Rioters are human as well, so there's no reason to hold them above this place. Quite a few of the complained about problems in the game are complained about because they break the rules that every OTHER part of the game is required to follow Can you give me examples about these rules that every other part of the game is required to follow? Rioters are humans, and when humans get nothing but criticism for every single little thing, of course they're going to detach themselves from the source of that criticism. Haven't you realized that most of the posts in the boards just shit on Riot members?
* 2 summoner spells * not being able to ignore or negate other mechanics in a one-sided manner, * not forcing changes in gameplay (as in you HAVE to do something against said champ or you automatically lose) * having a manageable and predictable power-budget for a kit(as in, little to nothing random and not having so many mechanics that it doesn't matter how weak the numbers get) * requiring gold(nothing has gotten around this yet, but it is a fundamental aspect of the game) * clear strengths and weaknesses as for data, it's kind of hard to do so. You could probably hold a poll on all social media platforms, but there's too many variables in just a poll, such as that people might not even know it exists, non-players may answer, etc Riot does not publicly post such information anymore either, which is odd considering that a huge number of other competitive games do, even just as a "number of players on this server" with actual numbers, https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/home/ lists 13 million in the past 7 days for ranked, and between 14 million and 40 million between all of the listed patches for a game with a supposed 100 million, it would only be 40% in ranked (at the highest number) if they played a SINGLE game, 2 games and that number is cut to 20% , 4 games, 10% , 10 games, 4% if the average ranked player plays 10 games(which isn't even close as most people play a LOT more), that means that less than 4% of league's players are playing ranked, at 20 games, this is less than 2%, etc for a distinct count, player count with the numbers 14 million and 40 million can be a flux of increase or decrease at : 186% increase, 65% decrease , which are both extreme at almost twice the count or down to one third i'll do an average with all patches and see how that goes. The average number of games within the patches that have been live for their entire existence: roughly 25.3 million here are the rough numbers for the patches: 38 mill 9.13 30 mill 9.12 28 mill 9.11 34 mill 9.10 26 9.9 26 9.8 22 9.7 21 9.6 19 14.7 25.7 29.3 18.1 40.2 17.7 17 24.3 24.8 24 mill 8.19 it's hard to get stats when the only website with numbers only shows 1 year of play
Razelth (NA)
: You can't point out stats in the boards ever. You'll just get bombarded with downvotes by hardstuck silver players who think that a champion who needs to be countered by brainpower is just overpowered lol. And they wonder why Rioters don't frequent this shithole.
Riot also nerfed yorick for doing well in bronze because people were using him to get out of bronze, have tried to give MANY controversial buffs in the worst possible ways (this one is also controversial because it removes a natural counter-play to an aggressive champion should the Renekton player focus on it) There are a lot of bad posts on the boards...those same bad posts usually go completely ignored and fade into obscurity. Of course, "brainpower" seems to be going away as well when such a large percentage of Riot's community has claimed to quit or stop playing until Riot fixes the many problems they have created, so there are by comparison, less players with "brainpower" now there are so many instances where "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies to Riot's changes My point is, Rioters are human as well, so there's no reason to hold them above this place. Quite a few of the complained about problems in the game are complained about because they break the rules that every OTHER part of the game is required to follow For example, it would cause a massive controversy if Riot tried to encourage tank players to play again by making tank items more gold efficient than their price in ways other than abilities, for example, halving the cost of base components, would drive tank play rate up too high again because they could scale faster than their counters
: I mean as it stands shields are designed around somehow surviving the oppressive might of ADCs. A regular melee schmuck can’t do much against a champion who is literally built to withstand the burst per second that is an ADC. Furthermore, I don’t think this buff is as big as people make it out to be, especially considering it’s behind a 50 fury mechanic, a resource that regens at 5 per auto attack, on a champion who never builds attack speed. Like in theory it sounds very scary but in practice actually having both W and 50 fury up _right when the shield shows up_ is difficult, especially considering shields come into play when champions are at low hp more often than not, meaning renekton already blew W.
maybe, but you also have to remember that renekton is one of the most aggressive lane bullies in the game. If it forces you out of lane, it was worth 10 auto attacks. his Q also generates 2.5 fury for every non-champion hit and 10 for every champion hit all of his abilities generate fury actually so it's 10 auto attacks or variables from the other abilities. His abilities except for his W are also AOE, so he does not take minion aggro for being aggressive. With a change like this, renekton will probably be able to bully any shield user out of lane entirely if he doesn't accidentally waste the fury this will increase his skill-cap somewhat, but it will also decrease an already aggressive champion's counter-play options
: poeple have been complaining about every season whenever they start always, nothings changed this season lol
well, the difference is, 6 - 8, riot could actually convince you with the "it's just pre-season, they'll fix it later" , 8 came around, they fixed very little, 9 came around and people are tired of it even when season 6 came around, people hated the "who can burst harder" nature of the masteries update
: > [{quoted}](name=FederationFurry,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vTE2eYs4,comment-id=0007000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-18T05:37:09.081+0000) > > That's because you have no regulatory body or trading standards in America so corporations can get away with a lot more in the United States then in European countries. Its why a lot of companies go "stateside" or "base" themselves in the state because of the complete lack of standards regulations that would not fly with the rest of the world. We don't have regulation or trading standards here in the US? Please tell me you are joking.
well, it's not that hard to agree or disagree. We do have a lot of standards and regulations, but at the same time, those are not always enforced If you want a recent example, take the lead poisoned water from whatever big city it was there was also that EPA thing about the Mine that collapsed and spilled into a river, etc
shofaz (NA)
: It does feel like, with the exception of Anivia, that control mages are either suffering right now or just meh. All due to fear of pro play though.
isn't Syndra a burst mage? her "control" (which is utility and crowd control or the ability to force a reposition) is very low, only able to stun a target she manages to hit with her E {{champion:9}} is a bit better example of a control mage because his best features are his crowd control (still has high damage though but I guess its' not burst since it's dps and his E ) of course, nothing is set in stone, {{champion:34}} is a control mage, burst mage and zoning mage all in one, but she compensates for that with a lot of weaknesses/counterplay
Azteryz (NA)
: last time i saw any character progression was during the burning tides event graves and TF squashed their beef MF got her revenge on GP GP came back from the dead introductions to TK and Illaoi beautiful
they also killed the jolly roger and replaced him with a generic ghost pirate. The event and the lore was awesome, but come on, they didn't have to turn gangplank into an edgelord
Rioter Comments
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=AlienPrimate,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=VfHXEqlE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-17T14:02:17.233+0000) > > Must be the new Darius build I heard about with {{item:3285}} {{item:3089}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3027}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3100}} Darius finally learned a listen from Garen and becomes a wizard he's always wanted to be, just like Garen.
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=VfHXEqlE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-07-17T14:33:54.090+0000) > > Darius finally learned a listen from Garen and becomes a wizard he's always wanted to be, just like Garen. but darius doesn't want to be the wizard, he wants to be the king, the God King !
: > [{quoted}](name=kaisas asscheeks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kcucXoTs,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-07-16T23:13:15.320+0000) > > Bot lane: "enemy double kill!" > > well ok I guess I didnt want to play anyway Weird way to spell top lane but okay.
yeah, they totally meant Triple Kill! Everyone always forgets the jungler... XD
C0l0urless (EUNE)
: >Firstly because dodging is among the worst things you can do. If somebody does something you feel is dodge worthy; mute them, play the match, and report them after. Doesn't matter what it is they did. You are worse for dodging than they'll ever be for wanting to try something you didn't like. You shouldn't have to waste at least 15 minutes of your life playing with a troll just so they will MAYBE get banned. And don't try to excuse this with it being off-meta, since you cannot Jungle without Smite. >Secondly because if people want to try nonstandard things they should have every ability to do so. Riot should never do anything that in any way pushes a meta or playstyle on anyone. That doesn't mean everything needs to work, but it does mean everything needs to be allowed. If you want to play non-standard positioning you need to have permission from your team, which the guy OP is talking about clearly didn't have. >On that token, not only should they do nothing like what your asking for, but those early game jungle items (Hunters machete and that other one) shouldn't need smite to be built. This would give laners the opportunity to abuse the items without sacrificing a Summoner Spell so it is an awful idea.
{{champion:9}} {{champion:20}} and there were a few others
: Why can't we get a free dodge when Jungle refuses to take smite?
{{champion:9}} {{champion:20}} and I think there were others
: Never put me jungle if you want a winning game. But by that same token, if you put me jungle, it's not like I'm trying to *int* the game. And as long as nobody's trying to int, or be a fucking prune in chat instead of playing the game when my autofilled ass gets set behind in my off-role, there will be a point where I'm not going to be *completely* worthless even then.
> [{quoted}](name=ChaosReyn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cuEXIaQK,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-07-15T15:43:16.885+0000) > > Never put me jungle if you want a winning game. > > But by that same token, if you put me jungle, it's not like I'm trying to *int* the game. And as long as nobody's trying to int, or be a fucking prune in chat instead of playing the game when my autofilled ass gets set behind in my off-role, there will be a point where I'm not going to be *completely* worthless even then. try champions that are capable of roaming (even if they're not traditional junglers). Nightblue ran blitzcrank once
: Riven **is ** insanely busted. I just played vs her in ranked just now. Yes, at level 1 she popped about 550 of my health. And was about to do it again and kill me within the ultra short cooldown had Shen not been right around the corner. _Riven is insanely busted_ because the cooldowns and animation cancels offer ZERO counterplay beyond a summoner spell, especially at level 1. You just have to eat the poop. Its not right. Then she gets a little gold and Spear of Sojin, and its Q Q Q dance all game. As Hashinshin says, the ONLY THING that holds back Riven players from dominating entirely is the OCD to 1v5 in every single instance. They'll jump into bad fights thinking Q Q Q E Q Q Q E Q Q Q E Q Q Q E will keep them from dying when the team starts CCing and crit damaging her. Btw, I played as Kayle and once I finally hit level 11 (as usual) I was finally able to chunk her down and send her packing after building Phantom Dancer. For the entire first half of the game, had it not been for Shen, she was easily dominating lane and when she roamed, even without getting fed kills, and being basically even in CS most of laning phase.
well, kayle is a bad matchup for riven. Kayle has lower base stats (due to being a ranged hyper-carry), no crowd control other than a slow, and her only defense is a minor heal and her ultimate, which disables her primary form of offense
Eedat (NA)
: They discouraged how Soraka avoided all interaction and just stood behind someone pressing W and E on them. Not that she heals
untargetable "heal bot that follows you around" playstyle...sure, she can attack and such, but she's always "behind" the person
Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: And the more time you spend while trying to find that one lone Support to complete your team, the wider range of ELO it is between them and the rest of you. People who are incessant about "we don't want autofill" issue actually haven't played the game when there was no autofill and everyone had to literally play every role because you'd be relegated to what's left, based on your pick order. That was way worse than autofill since you couldn't even be guaranteed your primary or secondary roles most of the time. Or Teambuilder. The queue times there were a disaster if you wanted to play anything other than Support. Also the new position selector when it came out but without autofill had abysmal queue times as well. Once on PBE, i was waiting for 397 minutes in queue because i turned on YouTube while i was waiting for it to pop and i actually forgot i was even playing League.
> [{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cuEXIaQK,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-07-15T14:16:08.218+0000) > > And the more time you spend while trying to find that one lone Support to complete your team, the wider range of ELO it is between them and the rest of you. People who are incessant about "we don't want autofill" issue actually haven't played the game when there was no autofill and everyone had to literally play every role because you'd be relegated to what's left, based on your pick order. That was way worse than autofill since you couldn't even be guaranteed your primary or secondary roles most of the time. > > Or Teambuilder. > The queue times there were a disaster if you wanted to play anything other than Support. Also the new position selector when it came out but without autofill had abysmal queue times as well. Once on PBE, i was waiting for 397 minutes in queue because i turned on YouTube while i was waiting for it to pop and i actually forgot i was even playing League. you mean where auto-fill jungler was an instant loss, auto-fill support was likely a lost lane or lost game but rarely both, auto-fill top was a lost lane AND likely lost game, auto fill mid...lost lane and likely lost game that doesn't sound so different from now. one of the most fun times I had in laning phase occurred with the old system and 3 marksmen in bottom lane XD it was only ruined that the person we funneled the kills into was a meta "enthusiast" and ran off to "jungle" , throwing the lead we had and the game I think all they really needed to do for team builder was to set every position other than the one you queued for as "fill" , even a little popup asking "would you like to play your role in X lane?" would work as well, another popup asking "would you like to be moved into someone else's queue for X position?" would help too a short questionaire of popups after a certain amount of time has gone by could easily have helped it...most people were too busy trying to make perfect teams or find a full team to stay in the queue
: Obviously, the actual solution is to make consistent dodges actually penalized instead of a trivial slap on the wrist and a vague threat of harsher penalties if you don't wait a single day. Really, if resetting queue dodge penalties wasn't so fucking trivial that you only had to wait a single day, there'd be far less dodges and you'd have better queue time.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=cuEXIaQK,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-07-15T12:51:07.640+0000) > > Obviously, the actual solution is to make consistent dodges actually penalized instead of a trivial slap on the wrist and a vague threat of harsher penalties if you don't wait a single day. > > Really, if resetting queue dodge penalties wasn't so fucking trivial that you only had to wait a single day, there'd be far less dodges and you'd have better queue time. from a game that has a history of problems involving queues? including the current client? hey Riot, I clicked accept, why am I getting penalized? Lol, the only queue time penalty I ever got was because it disconnected me multiple times during the queue process XD
Hotarµ (NA)
: > nerfs dont fix the fundamental problem league has in melee vs. range matchups. > > melee champions need ways to answer this kind of ranged poke, so these lanes can become more than "can i interact as little with my opponent as possible until my jungler may or may not show up?" You're right, there needs to be abilities in a melee champion's kit that allows them to survive heavy ranged poke and also get in close to do their own damage. Oh but wait, when Riot **actually** implements that into a champion's kit, the community hates it, calls it cancer, and constantly complains that it's OP. {{champion:157}}
{{champion:24}} : fine (less so in a damage meta because there's no crowd control to peel him) and his E doesn't block abilities, which ranged champions have a plethora of {{champion:14}} : fine, lots of harass and ranged damage but it can be dodged, shield to lessen damage taken and overall a back and forth lane {{champion:266}} : you attack me, I attack you. there is no in-between! {{champion:31}} : what's a snack doing in my lane? om nom nom {{champion:36}} : mundo goes where he pleases there are PLENTY of options that don't just go "oh, I have counterplay for my counterplay, watch as my only weakness is my player!" you can work around his mechanics, but they feel AWFUL to play against and by the way, YASUO IS A MID-LANE CHAMPION...few to no people complain about him in top lane because his base stats are low enough that they CRUSH HIM, yet even then, the yasuo CAN MATCH THEM if skilled enough. His play rate is roughly 70% mid and 20% top, specifically 68% mid and 22% top atm Now, yasuo may be a "balanced" champion, but his kit is frustrating because he has an answer FOR EVERYTHING. That's the reason that a lot of champions are disliked. Generalists have never been healthy in league's entire existence, but yasuo is a HYPER-CARRY with FOUR UNIQUE DEFENSIVE FEATURES IN HIS KIT...
man of tin (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=3TWarrior,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vv8EFijw,comment-id=000a0001000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-12T23:46:17.914+0000) > > anivia may be a phoenix, and it makes sense that she can come back from death, **but it was never a core part of her identity**. And Aatrox was and still is a darkin that feeds and sustains himself on the blood of his enemies through combat, so it makes sense that he can come back from death, but the main focus was always **the life steal and blood draining** and not the revive. The revive itself even crippled you by draining your passive when you revived, it only existed to save your ass in the rare times when your lifesteal wasn't enough to keep you alive usually due to lifesteal reducing items (and even then you'd usually just die right afterwards).
the healing was tacked on because he PREVIOUSLY used huge portions of his health as a resource-less champion (5 to 10% of max health per cast...) The entire purpose of his blood well was to be filled for his ultimate healing based on combat is more fitting of a mad berserker: {{champion:2}} the berserker if anything, after reading the previous lore, it looks like it wasn't finished as the only mention it gives is ", Blood Well empowering him and fueling his brutal, elegant campaign of slaughter."
: > [{quoted}](name=3TWarrior,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5fhHwER5,comment-id=00130000,timestamp=2019-07-12T02:39:33.803+0000) > > well, actually, the only tank meta to ever exist was in season 5 when the jungling item added a lot of damage and %hp health > > 3 tanks (or durable champions ) average with 4 not being uncommon, the game was turtled for half the game or more, then they pick a lane and run towards it with the minion wave and just destroy the towers in their way, potentially netting a kill or two as well, then backing off when you've killed 2 or 3 of the team, or just stalling in place to wait out the revive timers > > it was disgusting...pretty much the only worse time was the 4-man dive meta (which didn't exist previously because you took a serious hit to gold and XP) > > the tank meta meta only lasted for a month and even then you could still influence the game quite a bit depending upon your role there have been mutiple tank metas actually * seasons 6 when cinderhulk was rebuffed * a period between 7-8 Courage of the Colossus was all the rage * and actually earlier this year when Aftershock first arrived Each and every time there's a bitch and a cry about how DUMB durable a tank may be along with the crying of "cdr is too ez to get" and that being "problematic" cause some dumb squishy main is complaining about how they couldn't play the game cause of the amount of CC they ate. Which again speaks into the further problems of the community. They don't want someone to CC them, and they don't wanna die Shit as a lot of top lane mains complain about they essentially don't want people to out scale them either. It's a lose-lose-lose situation which is why tanks like Galio keep getting gutted and redone. Shit now that I think about it Galio would stand as the perfect example of a Tank that did his job _**too well**_ and through community complaints both in solo and in pro had him turned into a DaMaGe dealer and back to a tank multiple times. As a tank, his bases were strong but you could do decent till laning phase was over, then the complaints about him **over-CCing **you would roll on to the boards. But as a Damage dealer if he hit you you basically fking imploded on sight. There's literally no in-between that people liked. Poppy/Maokai as a tank basically ensured the same thing that's why they got gutted so hard. TL;DR People don't like tanks. Not all of course, but a vast majority do not like them. Both playing them, as sometimes they have no agency no matter how hard they win their role i;e like top, and playing against them, as their massive amounts of sustain that they can hold in their kits (when the sun and the moon align) could make them feel UN-killable. That's why they have a low % pick rate cause their mainly played by mains. Meaning the complaints will always come from people who play squishies and don't like being squished. It's a ridiculous concept once you think about it.
did any of those metas make it where it was such a powerful option that there were 3 or even 4 of a single class on the same team? as for squishies not liking being squished, yeah, that's always been ridiculous, especially if they ignore defense options people try to call mages tanky, yet at best in common builds, they end up at full build around 3000 health (full build...) and 50 bonus armor or magic resist and even with those defenses, their natural counters: divers and assassins, kill them immediately. Marksmen have similar options and still complain
Krozoid (NA)
: Literally every aatrox main wanted the revive gone with the rework what are you on about
this is literally a back and forth argument that neither of us can prove but it stands to reason that what was core to his identity and viability is NOT what players should want gone
: Lol buffing? You are talking about that 10% at rank 1 (which matters even less when you consider that his healing is tied to damage when his damage isnt that high at early levels unless he goes full ad) and that 5% at rank 2 (which doesnt matter that much because 5% is 5 fucking %, instead of healing 150 it will be 155 M U C H H E A L). And do you guys forget he is melee or something? The revive is quite important for a melee caster. Once he blows his q he cant q for the next 3 seconds. No q no damage. No damage no heal. No heal no survivability. This changes will just make the enemy focus him almost always (unless he is super behind) and aatrox cant endure such focused fire when his enemies have GW and he hits armoured targets (the higher armour, the less damage he deals the less he heals). He needs real compensations if riot wants him to be playable. And these changes better be quite interesting because otherwise there is no reason to pick him over the rest of the juggernaut roaster. Darius brings awesome clean up potential, high damage and sustain (not tied to his damage). Illaoi brings awesome raid boss feel, extremely high yet avoidable damage and high sustain (not tied to her damage). Udyr brings extremely high single target sustained damage, good sustain, strong dueling potential and high non dash mobility. Mordekaiser brings good raid boss feel, high aoe damage and one of the biggest shields in the game. Mundo boosts the biggest sustain in the game (not tied to his damage), can go whenever he pleases (thanks to his tenacity in w) and deals surprisingly high single target damage. Garen a mediocre out of combat sustain that scales rather well into the late game, brings good aoe and single target damage while being able to reduce a lot of damage if timed correctly. Also the villain mechanic although it is extremely unreliable, it should be mentioned that slaying the villain with your ulti is awesome and thematically fitting. Nasus extremely high single target damage, good sustain, strong dueling potential and a very potent slow and cripple ability. Also stacks so he can deal that high damage even with 1 damage item. Shyvana, shit idk jack shit about her actually. Trundle good single target damage, strong dueling potential, good sustain (some tied to his damage), can steal stats to empower himself and can even cancel dashes if he times his e correctly. Urgot the only ranged juggernaut, very high damage, can cancel dashes with his e if timed correctly and an execute below 25% hp that upon completion will fear everyone around him. Volibear surprisingly good dueling potential, good non dash mobility, can cancel dashes with his e if timed correctly and has an okeish sustain (not tied to his damage). And finally yorick, good dueling potential, high damage (depends on how many ghouls are helping him) and okeish sustain (not tied to his damage). And then there is aatrox, extremely high yet avoidable damage, good mobility (late game), good clean up potential and very high sustain (tied to his damage). Like why pick him over darius or illaoi? Both of them fill more or less the criteria of damage and sustain, excluding mobility ofc. But we dont play juggernauts for their mobility now do we? If i wanted durability and mobility i would go irelia.
these people have never played Aatrox and probably never faced him...how would they know what his theme and kit were about...
: The theme of darkins is lifesteal but since Aatrox had the revive since he was made many people just think it's what his kit revolves around
it IS what his kit revolves around...his blood well was ONLY there for it, unless you think it had something to do with the attack speed it granted (at most 50 - 60 %) his healing is powerful, but it was never what made him a threat. What his kit revolved around was his revive that allowed him to be a HIGH PRIORITY TARGET WITH MANY LIVES
: It doesn't matter when his heal is so over the cap it doesn't matter. If you have a HP bar of 2000 and you heal for 3000, 50% of that got negate by grievous is still a 1500 which is more than enough to negate all your team dmg. How do you get 3000? well, 400ad x (70%selfheal on ult + 30% items life steal) x land on 3-5 enemies= 1200-2000 x 3Q land= 3600-6000 heal. Darius heal on missing health doesn't even come close to this.
#the math involving illao and aatrox is interesting, so try giving it a read. the conclusions for aatrox are highlighted so, if you have a perfect setup, it's strong? isn't that kind of the point? Illaoi can and does do the same thing WITH EVEN HIGHER VALUES I'm checking your math here... with ult active, you have 51% life steal(**SINCE YOU MENTIONED LIFE STEAL**)(and 51% of damage dealt healed due to his self healing being affected) I'll do the math for the ideal scenario and the more likely "unlikely" scenario in the ideal scenario, you hit all 3 with all 3 abilities(and all opponents will have the standard 70 armor)(let's just do the absolutely perfect bonus damage for that) : 3 times 506 (+ 450% AD) = 2306 x 3 = 6918 x 0.51 = 3528 healing before mitigation x 0.58 for armor = 2046.3444 healing after mitigation change that to 5 people and it's 5 x 506 (+450% AD) = 11530 x 58% x 51% = 3410 healed from Q now, let's say that this is the likely "unlikely" scenario of get 2 people in all 3 effects(with more than likely missing sweet spot on one or more of the casts), you get at MAXIMUM: 2 x 506( +450% AD) x 0.58 x 0.51 = 1364 health ------ #using a juggernaut's ideal scenario is like trying to count grains of sand on a beach individually...not going to happen here's illaoi's highest potential: 6 x 5% missing health = 30% missing health per champion hit, at max that's 5 champions + 1 spirit champion = 180% missing health healing. with the standard bruiser/tank build of around 4000 health, you get UP TO 7200 healing from a single instance and can repeat this 12 times but usually at the cost of the spirit, so the spirit is probably destroyed by now, so we get 1 instance of 7200 + 11 instances of 150% missing health restored( 6000) = 73,200 health restored maximum the damage done by illaoi is just as ridiculous: ((( (180 + 120% AD) x 1.3 = 363.6 x 1.3 = 472.68))) x 5 champions = 2,363.4 damage from just 1 tentacle hitting once, the second tentacle does half that again for 1181.7 and the other 4 doing half that again for 590.85 x 5 = 2954.25 + 1181.7 + 2363.4 = 6499.35 x 12 = 77,992.2 before mitigation, if we use the same 70 armor, it's 45,235 (before illaoi's own damage and spirit damage is factored in...) #AT MAXIMUM, aatrox heals 3410 by hitting all 5 people with all 3 sweet spots and his heal is useless at full health. It is also never going to happen. His most-likely best case scenario gets 1364 healed with 2 peopled involved IF HE HITS ALL 3 SWEET SPOTS
: The life steal of those guy aren't even close to what Aatrox get. I am talking about 1 Q full health on each cast when he is in ult. Even Darius can't heal that much with his Q.
his Q didn't have any healing... https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Aatrox https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Aatrox/History his old W triggered every 3 hits and healed for 30 to 90 + 6.5% of missing health if you take this as per hit, that's about 10 + 2% missing health per auto to 30 + 2% {{champion:2}} : 14% to 22% life steal with up to 50% increased healing from all sources, the value at 1% increase per 2% missing health. His attack speed also vastly outclassed aatrox and life-steal was his standard build, increasing it further. Olaf's values might be "lower" but couple in that he can have up to 194% bonus attack speed tacked on based on his missing health...and that his healing increase is based on missing health... at 50% missing health and just base AD at level 1, olaf nets 11.9 health per auto attack and 105% bonus attack speed compared to aatrox's 10 + 2% missing with 30% attack speed if he has a full blood well under the same conditions, aatrox heals for roughly 16 per auto, but, when we compare their attack speed, (i'll have to use his current base attack speed since the wiki does not have the old one mentioned) Aatrox attacks at roughly 0.8 times per second compared to olaf's 1.2 factoring this in, olaf heals 14.28 per second and aatrox heals 12.8 #then, even more importantly, olaf's healing is LIFE STEAL, it increases with his AD value if olaf and aatrox both have {{item:3153}} {{item:3072}} , olaf will have 54% total life steal while aatrox has 32% and his base healing if they both have 200 AD at ability level 5 (which is just a reference number, their base AD is different, etc) aatrox will heal for 64 + 30 + 2% missing health per auto, while olaf will heal 108 health per auto before his bonus healing is even factored in if this is level 11, aatrox heals roughly 124 health per auto if he is at near 0 health, Olaf at the same heals for 162, yet he would have more than triple aatrox's bonus attack speed... back to just their base values with no items at 11, aatrox heals 60 at near 0 health, olaf heals 32 at near 0, then factoring in attack speed, olaf has roughly 1.8 attack speed compared to aatrox's roughly 1.0 , leaving olaf with 58 health per second at that value #IN A VACUUM(which doesn't exist in league), aatrox CAN outpace olaf. In reality, olaf performs better and has better scaling {{champion:19}} ...he's really hard to mention because his healing depends upon his opponents and his build...If he's an AP bruiser or full AP, his values can be insane at 90% healing of 120% AD + 100% AP + 8% of target's maximum health at max cooldown 6 seconds with only 100 AP and max CDR, you get 90% of 120% AD + 100 AP + 8% of target's max health. at standard 2000 health, that's 260 + 120% AD per 3.6 seconds. The wiki does not mention if the heal is based on post or pre-mitigation damage dealt you can then add his basic attack healing to the mix, 10 - 44 or 15 to 66 while below 25% #back in the day, aatrox may have been durable, but it wasn't his life-steal that made him feared: blood well and {{item:3026}} , suddenly, you have a HIGH PRIORITY TARGET WITH 3 LIVES (potentially 4 if zilean is around)
Krozoid (NA)
: The revive was a shit and unecessary mechanic that everyone wanted rid of for the rework but they didn't care and forced it so hard, his real theme was being a diver with dark flight and taking out the backline with massacre
what? no one wanted his revive gone, they wanted his kit UPDATED so that you weren't forced to stall out a match because your kit was basically a self-destruct button (5 to 10% of max health per ability use for low range, inaccurate, slow-moving abilities...) and apparenty, they changed the health costs in season 7, but still "low range, inaccurate, slow-moving abilities" there was also the issue of numbers, where people played him when he was decently strong
man of tin (EUNE)
: Think of it like this: Do Zac and Anivia's kits require their passive revives (only talking about the revive portion of Zac's passive, not the blobs) to function? Not really. I mean, they obviously do come in handy when things go wrong somehow in a fight, whether it be you getting assassinated (for Anivia) or focused down by the enemy or a dive failing (Zac) but it's not like they're so important to their kits that it's absolutely necessary for you to utilize them to be successful. You'll have quite a few games where you'll maybe pop your passive only like twice and never again and you'll still be as effective as ever, you pretty much just treat it as a bonus. Aatrox was a similar case, his revive was useful for dives or for 1v2s but it's not like your kit could never function without it or depended on it (not to mention it DRAINED your Blood Well once it was popped), since if you played right and managed your Blood Well decently you could keep yourself alive in fights through your insane lifesteal, attack range with ult and attack speed. Not saying the revive wasn't helpful, mind you, but there were other aspects of his kit that were way more important both thematically and gameplay-wise than it. (Also his theme was always about sustaining himself through bloodshed and miraculously clinging onto life in the midst of the fray by hacking and slashing at his foes and drinking their blood in (which his ult, W and Blood Well attack speed showcased pretty successfully in game), no revival was ever mentioned in his lore)
anivia is the cryophoenix...her core mechanic and theme is her ultimate and the ice around her. Aatrox, again, was about the ritual of his ultimate and his fixation on battle as another thing, you "could" remove zac's passive, but why would you? It makes him awesome and is a neat theme. anivia's is not as awesome, but that can be attributed to that it's not as interesting. Now, imagine if Anivia froze everything in a certain area around her in the shape of an egg(with brief crowd control) and then after the delay, she bursts out of the ice in an explosion of ice shards for damage anivia may be a phoenix, and it makes sense that she can come back from death, but it was never a core part of her identity. It's mostly an anti-assassin trait because she's one of the most vulnerable mages theres plenty to work with that can keep the theme and effectiveness of the kits. Change just for the sake of change isn't good, especially when it changes parts of kits or lore that makes champions who they are
: > [{quoted}](name=3TWarrior,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R70mU7lT,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-07-12T17:52:17.038+0000) > > countless threads in the "recent" tab with almost zero upvotes and views? "Recent tab" ok... how about you actually go back? Instead of looking at "recent" threads about old topics? Also have you seen how many threads get buried or get no views regardless of topic? Depending on the time of day really good and insightful threads can go ignored or buried by the topic of the week/month
as in, threads that never make it to hot and never get enough views. Interesting or relatable topics tend to take off and get a lot of views/upvotes unless it's in a sweet spot where there is no one browsing the section it was also rather silly that there's "new" and "recent" in the tabs
: > [{quoted}](name=XenaPhobiaFTW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R70mU7lT,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-12T16:19:51.877+0000) > > It's not really what the community wanted. The community never asked for any of this. You know who did want it? Riot. Do you know why? To make pro games more exciting to watch. It does nothing for *real* league of legends and no one asked for most of this crap literally most of the changes done were done at OUR request. I love how every single time riot does something instantly the answer from quite a number of people here is "nobody asked for this" yet there are countless threads asking for that exact same thing. Even better when those same people who say "we didn't ask for this" were part of the same people who were asking for those exact changes.
countless threads in the "recent" tab with almost zero upvotes and views?
: Black Realm God is right. This meta is what players asked for. Hundreds of topics where players years back asking for shorter games, longer respawn timers, et cetera, et cetera, but there is a search bar. I'd recommend to browse the oldest topics you can find of people asking for changes. You'd be surprised when you find out we got what we asked for. I know you want to be right when confronted with this truth, but I dare you to look. This high damage meta is by our request.
maybe because at the time, it was common for games to last an hour (even up to 2 hours in a drastic case) season 5 and 6 came around and all of that disappeared and the damage problem started most people place season 4 and 5 as the best seasons and conveniently also most note that when things took a downward turn was in late season 5 and early 6 (which by sheer coincidence is also when tencent bought out the last of Riot's stocks and when player feedback seemed to be no longer listened to)
: I see people saying him not being able to build health like it's a downside, since when do assassin's want to build health?
don't forget that he gets bonus stats for doing so as well
: ya know i find it funny how people parrot the souls community saying "git gud" without having any understanding as to why it was said, in the souls games there is very little that another person can teach someone. i can tell them the idea way to approach a boss but i cannot make them magically learn all the correct timings to dodge, when its safe to be aggressive or when they should be running. i cant magically make them better at executing their play despite how much information i give them hence the only way to get better is to "git gud" its the same reason why dieing in nearly every souls game is effectively inconsequential. if you are new to souls youre going to die, and with that death learn how to better approach the situation and move forward. league on the other hand does have significant consequence for dieing and more often than not to something you do not have information on and with riot buffing the shit out of damage and nerfing the shit out of vision its only getting more punishing. both games reward calculated aggression but only one is making you do the calculations blindfolded
don't forget that you have to make those timings half a second in advance so that the character animation plays out or you get bopped and chopped and dead...
: Because most of the time what the people want is trash
really... "early game jungler invades are too powerful" -nerfs entire jungle roster, not making them any weaker in comparison and basically not impacting them at all because they can still invade just as early and with the same power as before- , double hit passives have always been problematic, riot, please don't implement another...(fairly sure this is the fifth variation...and it tends to be unhealthy as well and spikes true damage on-hit champions heavily...Master Yi jungler is actually a thing in diamond and above now...which is just ridiculous(and more a by-product of other changes of Riot refusing to listen) "riot, assassins and burst marksmen are WAY too powerful, making any marksman that can not use lethality practically useless by comparison" -gives supports an item that does not change the effectiveness of lethality but instead makes it MUCH HARDER TO KILL A PRIORITY TARGET and encouraged VERY passive gameplay by shield users-
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3TWarrior

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