: About these fast games.
You ever have an inventory that looked like this : {{item:1056}} {{item:2031}} {{item:2055}} {{item:3802}} {{item:1026}} {{item:1001}} ? Just because games end early doesn't mean you don't use all item slots lol
Nyoomer (NA)
: Opinions on the Taliyah changes?
Not a Taliyah player myself, but I think the changes are... interesting. Taliyah jungle spices up the already ever-changing two weeks we've had so there's that. However, this change probably sucks for mid laners who don't want to jungle, since I would imagine Taliyah feels somewhat clunky for the experienced player. Right now she has pretty good single target damage, especially to jungle camps
: Shaco Is now even more broken than before, but It's just an unfun walking duskblade. That's the problem. 0 risk, just Q AA and boom oneshot. 0 skill required.
And that's why half of reddit wants the old Shaco. Enjoyable, diverse builds (see: AP, bruiser, crit, etc. coexisting at the same time, all without duskblade being core) and less braindead. However, they probably don't realize or care that they would be countered by a 75g item. Don't get me wrong, new Shaco is much less fun for everyone, including the Shaco. However, this iteration of Shaco is arguably healthier. Inversing Shaco's power curve and power spikes were a good way to make Shaco less polarizing at different phases of the game. Removing the ability for him to get countered by a 75g item makes the game more enjoyable for the Shaco player, and changes a fight from Shaco stealthing and getting a 2k damage crit on an AD without any interaction or Shaco stealthing and getting immediately CC'd by the support and dying for nothing to Shaco goes in and stays on his target for about a second, maybe more if the AD has ninja tabi or isn't weak.
: Can yi be taken a look at?
Yi's problem is Taric and the combination of guinsoo's rageblade and essence reaver. Without these, he was undertuned, one dimensional and useless for most of early game. He also only did one thing well, at a very specific point in game. Also, lucky for you the next patch is an indirect nerf to him; guinsoo's is getting nerfed
: Most melee carries also don't have two purely defenses abilities and a base autoattack range of 175
The 175 range is very weird, but there are plenty of melee carries with 2 defense spells. Let's compare him to the other champions in his subclass: {{champion:114}} has W, the ult heal and a tiny heal on her passive {{champion:24}} has E and ult {{champion:11}} has Q and damage reduction W {{champion:23}} has W debuff and ult {{champion:245}} he's more of a hybrid assassin than a skirmisher but has W and ult There are also some divers who are part of a different subclass (just to be clear) that have 2 defensive spells or 1 defensive spell and another that doubles down as one {{champion:266}} situationally has passive and W {{champion:164}} has passive and untargetable ult {{champion:141}} this one isn't a melee carry but when in bruiser form some of his damage has vamp and has an untargetable ult {{champion:2}} has vamp and the anti-CC ult, but isn't a melee carry either {{champion:19}} this one is weird, but is still pretty much a drain-tank with respectable damage. He still has the vamp all over his kit and E {{champion:5}} has a tiny passive heal but a powerful ult If I wanted to stretch far, I could add more {{champion:86}} is pretty much a tanky bruiser with a passive heal and W. This however is going too far because his passive sucks {{champion:39}} Q has a heal, also W {{champion:56}} small passive heal and W {{champion:80}} passive, can gain a charge of passive with W {{champion:58}} has Q and R steroid {{champion:107}} has W heal and empowered W heal/cleanse {{champion:62}} has his shitty passive and W that can be used to tank hits There are plenty of other melee carries with 2 defensive spells, but they all just suck. Also Yasuo arguably only has 1 pure defensive abilitiies. His passive shield is still part of his crit passive.
: Why is this thread so massively downvoted? People hate Shaco so much, that they don't even want to hear any discussions or constructive criticism about him?
I think it could be because: 1. The boards hate the Shaco subreddit and/or the champion itself 2. They think that Shaco players want Shaco to be OP again (even though it has been made clear several times that they just want their favorite character to be fun and the same character we/they enjoyed playing a while ago)
: This meta is so stupid and I love it.
> our jungler went Taliyah With the changes to her damage, Taliyah jungle is apparently not bad, or just experimental right now. Pro players are playing her apparently. I can't wait to try this
: Gold/Plat elo is the most cancerous thing I've ever seen :)
About the point of your post: 1. Nice description of D5 you got there :^) 2. Riot can't really do much about people inting or playing bad unfortunately. It's not easy to detect if it isn't obvious enough I guess. They can barely do more for people who flame in chat. It's been like that for a while, and while Rioters play the game too, I don't think they can change the game so quickly, seeing how they have been seemingly incapable of doing anything related About other things I noticed: > I can't even take my lvl 3 that 2 or 3 of my allies are dying and spam pinging me There are some junglers that have pretty good level 2 ganks. They take red then just go mid or the closest side lane, then they can fall back on a scuttle crab if all goes wrong, and can counterinvade the side of the jungle they are on if the enemy jungler invaded your jungle as a reaction. Camille, Jarvan 4, Xin Zhao and Graves come to mind. Ezreal used to do this all the time, and apparently every non-Shaco player on Reddit said Shaco can too even though his Q is ass at level 1 and at best removes 1 flash from mid lane every time I try. There are plenty of other junglers who can (situationally) do this as well. TLDR: consider trying level 2 ganks. Then the opponents can spam ping their junglers instead :^) > the community is becoming insanely toxic Gaming communities usually are, and this one hasn't been an exception. From my experience, games only become toxic in D5 MMR ranked games, but everywhere else was pretty mellow with the exception of a few players. I guess that could be the difference between our servers. ~~I'm pretty sure this one hasn't changed at all over the 5 years I played the game~~
: Same for me but if I have to go jungle then I have no choice but to pick a power farming champion like Shyvana or Yi. (that's if im the mood after this stupid jungle nerf bullshit.) Lee is still a good pick, I don't know about Diana for ap picks. Personally I detest having to play as Yi or Shyvana all the time instead of any other jungler or off meta jungler. I just refuse to play jungle anymore and tell my team mates "Go complain to riot because I'm quitting jungle.". I don't do this in ranked btw I just do a few days of rank each season, get gold as support/jungle/top then never touch ranked again. Though in ranked I only take top or jungle if and only if my team mate wants to trade because they are premade with their ADC or they just don't like the match up. And an extra reason I'm refusing to play jungle is not intentionally to grief my team mates, it's intention to get my own back at riot for nerfing a role that already struggles enough to get ahead. Heck as a support main I've ended games with a higher level than my jungler. FUCKING FIX YOUR SHIT RIOT!
> something about Yi and Shyvana being the junglers you have to pick Except they both suck and have for at least 10 patches now... Yi is only picked to do that Taric mid cheese... I'm pretty sure you don't have a good read on the current meta > nerfing a role that already struggles enough to get ahead Maybe because you're playing Yi and Shyvana and not something even remotely close to good. This could also just be your fault for bad pathing. Krugs give a shit ton of XP now, and the scuttle crabs are obviously important. Jungle, support and mid have been the 3 roles that have the most (and roughly equal) agency on the map for a while. The patch before the scuttle change allowed for about 6 or 7 different junglers to be A tier in solo Q, and Yi and Shyvana was not one of them
kargish (EUW)
: There is absolutely no way I am going to pick Pyke as a support
Anyone know the new champion's base cooldowns, damages and stats yet? These are important to knowing if he actually can jungle
Azadethe (NA)
: Kind of depends on if you play something like {{champion:19}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:11}} aka Fast clears, good escapes. The Ward system changes have heavily hit Silver jungle hard. You get filled more into Jungle than support in many occasions because so many Junglers have quick jungling because they can't ward well vs invasions. I've hated playing {{champion:77}} ever since they changed his Turtle Stance and Tiger Stance. Not only does it not heal as much, you have trouble erasing people now unless you have a very early game miracle 3/0. He used to counter {{champion:11}} {{champion:64}} and now due to lack of vision options, they kind of counter him (if he leads with Bear vs Yi, Yi can Meditate through most damage, and then kill him, and if he saves Bear, Yi will just kill him through his Turtle/etc. Lee can now kill him before he can even auto attack early game, especially if there's a lane feeder. Tenacity runes helped a little bit, and I've seen some strong Udyrs, but I haven't been one since like Season 5/4, especially since so many are now wall jumpers/walkers. P.S. I can go an entire game on a Silver account without a single person other than myself killed a Pink Ward as {{champion:28}} Not even kidding. Can be 15 Pink wards a game, and I kill 11 of them while team kills 0. My Junglers on Silver accounts: {{champion:14}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:254}}
Ah so you play junglers that take a long time to ramp up or team dependent junglers. I would say those junglers are somewhat similar to Ivern and Sejuani in the sense that they need a team to work. Vi seems to be the most team independent of those junglers but she still has her own problems.
Banuvan (NA)
: Well you are obviously delusional if you think your teammates have no effect on the game. Especially those in silver where you have such a plethora of different skill levels bunched together. You could get anything from a bronze-plat player not to mention smurfs. I've had a ton of gold players who are on 20 game losing streaks just throw games completely and they don't care. They aren't being demoted from gold 5 so they don't care as they throw games. Same with those players who belong in bronze but got a few carries and are still in their promos but they suck big time and will eventually drop to bronze ruining 50+ games on the way down. Your teammates win or lose do not. That's the nature of this season and matchmaking is horrible. Even Riot has said that one person loses the game but one person doesn't win the game in one of their dev blogs which is why they are making changes. They have also said that silver has too many people ( currently half the population of ranked is silver in NA ) so they are adding more tiers to grind for everybody. Basicly Riot STILL hasn't figured out that their ranking and matchmaking is complete shit and they keep trying to put bandaids on it instead of actually fixing it. We are about to hit dynamic queue 2.0 with the new changes cause Riot doesn't listen to their players.
> Your teammates win or lose do not. It is not as simple as this. If you have that little impact on the game, you're going to climb slowly. Expecting your teammates to carry you just doesn't work. Never being proactive usually doesn't work. If you yourself have never won or lost your team a game, you are probably one of these or the type to be 0/0/0 after laning phase. I've gone into games in many MMRs, from silver 5 to diamond 5. I have definitely won and lost games by myself. Back when I was a lowly silver 5 player I have definitely had my fair share of games that I carried, had no impact on and solo lost. You seem to be under the impression that your teams are a big part of what wins and loses games. They are not as big as you are making them seem. The same trolls and bad players you see on your team will also be on the enemy team.
Azadethe (NA)
: Here's my thoughts: Take a Platinum player. Put them in Silver V. Compare the rates of climb when they get reset to ~ Gold II on new Season placements vs the Silver Climb. It's likely going to take them 200-300 more games to climb 5 Brackets on the Silver than their Gold II. Why? Silver V is like a Lottery. it's not about skill, or discipline, split pushing OR team play. It all goes out the window. Even if you have an illusion of skill in that elo, where your team dominates 25 to 5, that's usually all it is. An Illusion. Some or a couple on your team managed to get a very early First Blood/snowball, and create the illusion of a skill match, supported by gear and the charisma given to a team by a lead. And no matter how skilled you are in that elo..... a lottery team results in situations where unless you're playing a perma reset champ like {{champion:157}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:39}} ..... you still at best barely pull 50% win rates, even if you historically have 65% Kill participation and a 8 KDA. The problem arrives from the fact that literally 55% of the population is in Silver, and about 20% are Bronze. About 75% of the community isn't actually learning game proficiencies. They are playing by impulse/for "fun." and many just play retaliatory toward teammates who offend them. So..... technically..... in some cases.... Yes. Shitty teammates do prevent climbs. However, in some of those cases, it's also the complainer. I've been Plat II or better since Season 4. But..... I have 3 perma bans. I've had accounts start at Silver/Bronze to insufferable placements. Whereas I can go Gold V to Plat IV in about 100 games, Silver accounts I sometimes don't even get up to Gold in 300-400 games, because gameplay in silver is entirely different than in Gold or Plat. Plat: Quick to take advantage of team mistakes, but generally cautious lane phases, and laners help ward for junglers. Routinely buys Control Wards, and tries to keep early game deaths to a minimum. The game usually doesn't break out until after about 12 minutes. Gold: Usually quick to take advantage of team mistakes, but often gets caught in Yolo lane skirmishes which starts a lane snowball. However, Junglers usually help compensate and minimize that poor decision making, softening it out. Covers junglers about 70% of the time. Buys some Control wards, and tries to keep game deaths to a minimum..... until the snowball starts. Game USUALLY doesn't break out until 10 minutes, but often drives hard to end the game once it does. Hard to stop the snowball. Silver: No one's really taking advantage of team mistakes. Instead they make a contest of who can make the least mistakes. Often gets tunneled on farming or pvp, or on base defense, but not all at the same time (Not multitaskers). They ward for themselves, or don't ward at all. They don't usually care about protecting a jungler at all, but still expect the jungler to be in their lane at all times. Junglers do not know how to use Drakes/objectives for the most part. Bot laners don't know that Drakes are team objectives, and almost ALWAYS recall when a Drake window arises. Buys about 3 total control wards a game. They view deaths as inconveniences but don't ever try to avoid them. Almost all chase kills, and the supports/tanks often die in the process of trying to save the chasers. Game often breaks out within 6 minutes, which sabotages cs rates, stable lane phases, and unless you are a hyper reset champ on a smurf, generally creates an entirely different game dynamic that's hard even for smurfs to adjust to. This means one team's adc is almost always useless because it takes twice as long to buy their first full item, which means csing is far less reliable. It means support's Levels are crippled by their adc's performances. It means Jungler's CS gets taken over by laners who care more about padding their gold than the fact they are bullying their own jungler's gold supply. It means almost all drakes are 1 team endeavors, because the losing team doesn't have enough pressure to even create a skirmish there, and the team's are usually not interested in congregating anyways. The only real difference between Silver and Bronze? Silver players have moderate reaction times. Bronze doesn't react at all, and often freezes in place not knowing what to do.
What role are you playing in silver? If you haven't tried jungling and aren't awful, you should consider it. You should be able to have over a 90% winrate as long as you are proactive and aren't playing something like Ivern or Sejuani. I've done it solo before a long time ago.
Vizulix (NA)
: Yasuo Needs To Be Changed
> I'd like to say that I think Yasuo needs some serious fine tuning. His kit is way too overloaded and he is somehow allowed to be one of the strongest champions in every single phase of the god damn game. I agree that he needs change, but unlike you, I don't think it should be that much. His matchups are very polarizing: he loses to a lot of bruisers and wins against a lot of mages. Just his W needs a change, because this could allow to make his matchups less polarizing. He is overloaded, but that's why all of his kit is situational. This is also why Riot has to make sure that his numbers aren't too high. Right now, his numbers are pretty good, but that's only because conqueror is pretty good on him. Before the keystone, Yasuo was a troll pick with just a laning phase and mediocre mid game. Nothing else. His damage was mediocre, and people haven't discovered that fleet footwork was the way to go (before conqueror.) > He's a giant lane bully, Yes, his level 1, 2 and 3 are OP. If he's top lane, he falls off and then is relevant again at 6, PD, 11 and IE, and can still be run down. Bruisers shit all over him. If he's mid lane against a mage, then he continues to bully (unless in a specific matchup that is very difficult.) However, if he doesn't get ahead he becomes less useful, since he doesn't have waveclear as safe as the mages he has to match or the teamfight presence of a mage. > a great mid game fighter Correct, his mid game is probably where he is strongest. > and a late game hyper carry. There's simply no falling off for the guy. His late game is pretty good, but teamfights are difficult if he can't safely hit someone or doesn't have a team comp built around him. > In addition, CC isn't too effective against him due to his wind wall and high mobility and camping him in the early game doesn't work either since no matter how far you put him behind, You are kind of right. CC is increasingly effective against Yasuo, because this prevents him from using the rest of his kit, or forces him to use his 20 second cooldown spell in exchange for a spell that's usually a little (or far) less than his 20. Ideally you want to save your CC when he dashes close to you, then at that point you and Yasuo are playing mind games. Nothing is wrong with that. It's just difficult to use unless it's point-and-click. Camping him is actually also increasingly effective, because he is probably the easiest laner to gank for just about everyone but Shaco, who has to engage from behind him. He is free kills or a summoner spell, unless you and your jungler are low. > as soon as he hits 2 items he'll be shredding through your entire team thanks to conqueror and his passive. If you are building or have already build your 3rd item while he just finished his 2nd, you are ahead. This should not happen to you unless you completely disrespect his kit. Especially not when ninja tabis are still not bad despite the one nerf. > He's had one of the highest ban rates in the game for the last 4 years now and no one really likes playing against him. If I remember correctly, he and Zed both draw bans even when they are both weak. The community really does hate him. > So please just do something. To summarize, his kit is overloaded and he has too many safety nets for a supposedly high learning curve champion. Not wrong. He's one of those champs with a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling. > Note: Next patch Yasuo is gonna be terrifying if the new infinity edge stacks with his passive and conqueror. 40% true damage, 100% crit Yasuo at two items..... The Yasuo subreddit did the math on his new damage. It's a small increase against tanks and a small decrease against squishies. Also, what you're forgetting is that the zeal items prices are getting increased and that Yasuo cannot max out his crit in between PD and IE anymore. It's a nerf.
SirPurrr (NA)
: Shaco Is Not Balanced
Lee Sin beats him pre 6 from my experience if you can manage to catch him in his jungle, land your Q and smite a box. Applies post 6 too if the Shaco doesn’t dodge Q and/or doesn’t dodge ult with his ult. During mid game, he can also peel effectively, tank a lot of his damage and match his burst Nunu is Shaco’s worst matchup. He pretty much dictates early game and part of mid game and has the tools to make him useless in mid and late game. His ult makes it very difficult for Shaco to make a play on a squishy. I think Nunu also wins 2v2s and 3v3s if he is the one counterganking the Shaco Shaco can’t compete with Rek’Sai if the Rek’Sai player can track Shaco and countergank. Rek’Sai also one shots pretty much everyone pre 6, not just Shaco. Post 6, Rek’Sai still has tremor sense if all else fails. But if Rek’Sai has a lead, Shaco shouldn’t be able to recover at all. Rek’sai’s early game is by far stronger than Shaco’s anyways Graves outduels Shaco pre 6 if Graves isn’t low and isn’t forced to E before Shaco uses Q. Shaco also doesn’t get backstabs if Graves has a red buff and is forced to tank all 3 shots if he doesn’t leave immediately (or fight, but that doesn’t really work) TLDR: try early game. That is where he is weakest
: > [{quoted}](name=Trash MammaI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U0BiPQJK,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-09T22:11:29.371+0000) > > His early game is awful ever since the nerfs...he went from easily invading to easily being invaded. His late game is also awful the only reason it seems strong is because dark harvest works well on him and gives him a let game, if you manage to go against one of those shacos who pick eletrocute or lethal tempo he'll fall off massively hard. He's got no reliable CC due to his boxes being cancelled from sweeper and his only escape is his only engage. > > I'm not judging you or your playstyle but if shaco is a problem you're likely in low elo, where he's actually good. He's awful against coordinated teams and can't do anything His late game is not awful. He has had among the best winrates past 40 minutes for months now. I've even seen Lethal Tempo Bloodrazor tanky Shacos and they're a menace late game especially. Regular Shacos are still a hue slippery annoyance. It's so hard to play against. He disrupts your entire team, nearly 1 shots late while getting out fairly easily and running circles around you and can start sneaky splits that even stop you from grouping against him. I fear no jungler late as much as Shaco because they are much more predictable and easier to counterplay - this includes Yi, Mundo, Jax, Wu (although he's pretty bonkers late too), Udyr, Shyv etc. He just has insane outplay potential while being very hard to pin down and stop if he plays well. Even when he's doing nothin, you have to play in fear that he's hanging around somewhere near. His winrate continues to be fantastic at all stages even in Diamond+ and there are several Shaco one-tricks in Challenger. I agree that he seems most OP at lower ELO and vs uncoordinated teams but I think the only reason he isn't used in competitive is the massive skill investment to make his true power come to light. Moreover, JG has less old especially in lower kill games and handing off buffs etc. so it's harder to get your items in competitive. If they picked Shaco, they'd probably need a more supportive Top/Mid to funnel more gold into Shaco. Basically, the time investment to make Shaco work and the higher risk in using him is not really justifying the pick. Maybe they'd win 5-10% more but they'd have to put in 5x the effort compared to the normal strategies. I'm not sure if Shaco is truly OP but he sure as hell feels OP whenever you face a good one.
> massive skill investment This is not it at all. Shaco isn’t difficult to pick up. He’s also definitely near nowhere as hard to master as Azir, who does see play in competitive (when he’s strong of course.) My example isn’t fair at all, but my point is that it’s not about how difficult he is The above comparison is unfair, but let’s contrast them now anyways: Azir has some versatility, Shaco doesn’t really have that. Actually, he does, but his versatility is unreliable. This would be a good time to compare him with his main competitor Kha’Zix, who does have (slightly) more versatility. Kha’Zix can AOE shred armor with a cleaver, pop squishy targets, kite with a slow, clean up, he even situationally DPSes tanks and quickly maneuvers around fights. Shaco’s utility is more limited > massive skill investment Everything you said after this seems correct though
: I think his late game is too good for how strong his early to mid game is.
His early is overrated by people who don’t actually play Shaco. I’m not saying that it’s awful like a lot of Shaco players do, but his E does less damage than his autos for the first 8 minutes of the game and his Q duration isn’t very reliable anymore. ~~There are also plenty of times where I have thought “if I was x I would’ve killed him” since once in a while Shaco’s damage early feels underwhelming~~
Terozu (NA)
: M7. Not M5
Mastery has never been a good indicator of skill. (Neither has grade given after games, those just feel good to see.) I can be mastery 7 on an easy jungler (oh wait I already am) and still suck mechanically (sounds like me not gonna lie) A D5 Janna main can be dogshit but get mastery 7 during specific metas where Janna is OP Someone can be gold and a mastery 7 Lee Sin main, that doesn't mean the player is good at the champion A one trick can go onto a smurf with mastery 2 and crush the competition. The mastery 2 player can still be considered good at the champion
Azadethe (NA)
: Whatever you say. 1% pick champs are more influential picks than 5% pick champs. yup. P.S.. over 1/2 of TF's damage comes from auto attacking. It's ignorant to call him a mage. He doesn't just throw Q's. Have Riot put out ~ 20 more Assassin mids and see how many mages get played more than assassins.
What would you say TF is then, a marksman? An assassin? He's definitely none of those... His kit is most comparable to that of a mage even though his is an old design TF doesn't have the DPS and safety of a marksman and the mobility and early game of (mid laner) assassins. He scales much differently than either of these classes. He has burst, which is what mages have had for a while, utility similar to other mages (as opposed to supports, who have more utility) and the playstyle of a champion that zones other squishy champions. Sounds like a mage... Shaco's damage and Rengar's damage is mostly all autos and their only consistent damage spell is their Es, but other assassins burst comes mostly from spells. Does that make them not assassins? Orianna has a shield and CCs, much like other supports. Her damage is AOE and zones well, much like Brand and Zyra. Does that mean she's a support? The correct answer to these is no. TF's kit may dip in a little bit into other classes qualities, but that does not mean he is one of them
: Wow. How rude. My knowledge is just fine. Be respectful.
> My knowledge is just fine. according to your, you have always been worse than 50% of players in terms of rank. I don't like rank shaming at all, but you can't say that you have sufficient game knowledge when you statistically aren't good at the game. You aren't the only one who does this on the boards, a lot of people complaining are silver and comments that break the circlejerk always happen to be the more intelligible ones. Have you figured out that manaflow band is the most consistent and the best rune in it's tier and that celerity, waterwalking, gathering storm and nullifying orb are still good? Also, have you figured out that ult hat and transcendence are the only two undertuned sorcery runes right now?
: As a mage player, Sorcery feels underwhelming for me.
> Absolute Focus which is an absolute waste of a rune slot. What mages actually want this? When is this rune useful? It's not for mages. When riot said that they didn't want a class of champions to have their specific set of runes and that they wanted many classes to be able to dip into many different options, this is what they meant. On carry junglers looking to invade, this rune is pretty good since Rek'Sai or Kha'Zix with an extra 3 AD is pretty good. However, by going this you give up celerity which sucks, but you want to 1v9 the game with this. With the movespeed package in sorcery, you just want to rotate faster. TLDR: you want to cheese early game
: > [{quoted}](name=ThePikol,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bh275Enm,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-05-08T08:17:38.351+0000) > > Mages like Veigar, Velkoz, Malza, Ahri and Brand picked Ulti Hat quite often. > Maybe now they will be all forced to go Mana Band after all these mana changes.... Who would use manna band beside {{champion:34}} {{champion:17}} who got like 2 second cd on their ult? All of mages power come from their ult {{champion:45}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:99}}
Manaflow band has been the best and most reliable rune in the tree since the release of the new runes. Ultimate hat is undertuned on most champs
ThePikol (EUNE)
: Sorcery was supposed to be primary mages tree. What mage will use Nimbus Cloak?
To be fair, not many champs took ultimate hat. Yes, this includes mages. Manaflow band has always just been so much better, even with the changes that make it give flat mana. Nullifying orb has also been situationally better than the best rune from the slot. Ultimate hat is undertuned, and it seems most don't understand that on the boards.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qrE3N2ti,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-03T17:01:34.829+0000) > >Oh, and don't forget the people on Boards who post, "screw high elo. 90% of the playerbase is below plat. Balance around us." I played hard to get here and I put in a lot more effort than most people. It's not fair to guys like me, scarra, qtpie, etc. who put in more effort to learning the game if you completely ignore how far we've come. Ya know? when people say "stop balancing around diamond + they are talking about riot blatantly ignoring the lower elos like flat out deleting trackers knife, which is an absolute MUST in lower elo because you CANNOT rely on your team to ward. i played one game on pbe earlier today.. it got cut short becuase pbe was taken down.. but i cant not remember that last time i had that much fun.. because for the first time i had a team they knew how to play. i am tried of people saying "your silver your a noob" i have been playing for 5 years, i know more about this game than i would wager most plats. but its too damn stressful to try to climb, becuase no matter how mnay fucking time i ping something. i get fresh lvl thirties or complete idoits on my team who dont know how to play. i CANNOT remeber the last time i had a team that did not have at last TWO mindlessly feeding players.. sure the other team has them as well. high elo and lower elo are a completly different playstype becuase THESE PEOPLE CANT PLAY. and riot cant just flat out REMOVE things that us lower players NEED in order to try to mitigate the absolute madness down here. its quite often painful to watch what goes on down in my elo.. but the fact is.. i i dont PLAY champs that can carry lower elo. and and am NEVER going to. so i will ALWAYS be stuck with these morons. it donest matter if i have 15 kills. i can pounce into 1v5, i can't solo defend a turrent the champs i play NEED a team... there IS no such thing as "teamwork" down here. i can only recall losing to a better opponent ONCE in the past 3 years.. once that actually outplayed me. its always. oh great... im nidalee with 7 kills but thier{{champion:77}} has 6 kills.. and there isn't jack shit i can do to stop him... because he freaking hardcounters me. i swear i seroiuly wish i could play on higher elo so i can have an actaul CHALLENGE from the opposing PLAYER. and not just loseing becuase my teammates mindlessly feed. and whats worse is i am FORCED to make STUPID plays i dont want to do becuase they are our last chance of salvaging there game. i mean.. if its a 20% chance to win the teamfight but if i dont take it we lose the nexus... i have to take it... there is no "trying to preserve kda" you go and and hope for the best. when my team dives in 4v5 i HAVE to fucking follow them.. even if its a horrible idea... becuase if we lose the fight... i CAN'T stop them from ending the game.. idk im annoyed with riot right now.... bloody fucking ADC changes are supposed to be NERFS and they not only break assasins but are going to break every other damn thing as well hail of blades... new IE, Stormchaser. support lvl exp for junglers i mean sure i got the amazing new {{item:1039}} i wanted... but fuck i wont even be able to play with it if they release that other shit...
Fam you need to chill... > trackers knife, which is an absolute MUST in lower elo You mean red smite? You know, the one smite that has been busted ever since its conception? > for the first time i had a team they knew how to play. If you can't carry yourself out of silver playing jungle, then you deserve silver. Why are you dependent on a team? > i am tried of people saying "your silver your a noob" i have been playing for 5 years, i know more about this game than i would wager most plats. 1. If you really did have the game knowledge, you wouldn't be hardstuck silver. I'm sorry, but game knowledge doesn't necessarily mean you know which objective is optimal at the current situation 2. Amount of time played does not automatically convert itself to game knowledge. People get hardstuck D5 with 0 LP with over 1000s of games per season, I wonder why... The same thing happens at lower ranks too > but its too damn stressful to try to climb, becuase no matter how mnay fucking time i ping something. i get fresh lvl thirties or complete idoits on my team who dont know how to play. >i CANNOT remeber the last time i had a team that did not have at last TWO mindlessly feeding players.. sure the other team has them as well. You play the one role that dictates the direction of the game the hardest and easiest... You also play support, which is almost as impactful as jungle > i i dont PLAY champs that can carry lower elo. and and am NEVER going to. Meanwhile, you play Nidalee, the most oppresive jungler next to Rek'Sai and Kha'Zix when played well, and sometimes Warwick, the most braindead of the god tier junglers... You have a negative winrate in your ranked games on all of your mains, and an awful KDA despite a decent sample size ??? > it donest matter if i have 15 kills. i can pounce into 1v5, i can't solo defend a turrent > the champs i play NEED a team... there IS no such thing as "teamwork" down here. If you had 15 kills and can't do anything, it is your fault you lost the game. Nidalee falls off late game, not mid game. She is still incredibly strong at this point in the game > i can only recall losing to a better opponent ONCE in the past 3 years.. once that actually outplayed me. > its always. oh great... im nidalee with 7 kills but thier has 6 kills.. and there isn't jack shit i can do to stop him... because he freaking hardcounters me. This is the textbook complaint of the boards and of a lot of other league players... If you haven't learned your matchups over your years of experience, then I don't know what to tell you... > and whats worse is i am FORCED to make STUPID plays i dont want to do becuase they are our last chance of salvaging there game. The whole point of Nidalee is to get ahead early using your above average early game, and push a lead with your oppressive ass lead on your obnoxious champion so that the game doesn't get to your awful late game. Actually, this is pretty much how to consistently stomp silver players as most junglers, including the ones that suck early (Kayn and Shaco come to mind.) Now obviously, there's more to this, but I've gotten winrates in silver to over 90% in the past few games several times > I've played for 5 years.. my mechanical skills arn't getting any better, infact.. they are getting worse because i an now nearly in my thirties. People get D5 playing Janna. Others have played Nunu to D5. Turns out playing one of the most mechanically intensive junglers with bad mechanics doesn't yield good results. > if i was elevated to plat.. i could pretty easily hold that rank And yet you have a negative winrate in silver 5, and manage to be a liability in about half of your recent normal games. You need to be consistent, and also consistently good.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hawthorn Tree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3tig1EqZ,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2018-04-23T06:09:31.973+0000) > > It's hard for them to admit that they shouldn't have gone for that cannon/tried for that poke. Just much easier on their precious little hearts to say that assassins are overpowered. So, you're saying mages should give up every canon which hold most of the gold so he doesn't take at least 50% of his health?????? Assassins are and always were cancer designs in any game, this one too. A class that deletes you in 1 to 2 seconds and then vanishes without you being able to do something will always be cancer. But mains will never admit it.
If you have to miss every cannon, then the problem isn't the assassin, but your positioning and game knowledge, and maybe itemization. Manipulate waves better and stand on the side of the map closest to your jungler. Position yourself so that the assassin cannot effectively reach you and zone the assassin at the same time. If you are unable to zone the assassin (for example: hard counter or already behind) you should just focus on farming and juking skills anyways, and in which case you should not be complaining because a champion that is behind should not be able to contest one that is supposed to snowball when ahead. Stand by the wave so that the minions will aggro if the assassin tries to engage. Understand power curves of the assassin you are playing against. For example: Zed has weak pre 6 against most mages, then has a lot of kill pressure for the rest of laning phase unless playing against a counter, who slightly lowers his kill pressure. Talon has incredible level 2 and level 3, and will do a ton of damage early on, and slightly fall off later. If you still have a ton of trouble, don't be afraid to take resolve secondary, or grab a cloth armor/null magic mantle/extra starting item, or even ninja tabi/armguard/negatron cloak if applicable Keep in mind that assassins only stomp players who are bad at the game. If you don't respect their damage early, they lose their effectiveness and utility later. A good player (or team, if the assassin is a jungler) can completely shut down an assassin. See: the dopa video where he beat Fizz in lane as TF
: Mages getting nerfed meanwhile all i play against mid is....
I wish I could play in your games... I rarely see those characters. Especially Fizz, Kassadin and Yasuo. Whenever I play all I see are mages and a few unconventional picks...
Xiniseid (NA)
: Conqueror Yi.
I have a problem with complaining about Yi's damage. Sure in theory he out DPSes Xayah, bursts faster than Kai'Sa and snowballs faster than Draven but that doesn't really mean anything in practice. Currently the only thing Yi does is damage. That damage does not come alive until it's too late unless Yi is allowed to jack off for 20 minutes. That's literally the only thing he contributes to a team and that's the only thing he has in his kit aside from his few defensive steroids. And those can't be changed because that would make his kit even more unplayable than it is now. I responded to another thread about Yi's damage with a similar response. The takeaway from this is that you should understand that Yi still functions like a Shyvana, takes way too long to ramp and simply cannot compete in the current jungle meta. > [{quoted}](name=guccì gang,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ra1sjJVz,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-04-15T03:47:39.159+0000) > > To be fair if he is able to even get to that point of the game without being significantly behind, he deserves to have damage, since that's the only thing he has. Keep in mind that the S tier junglers have cheaper builds, faster powerspikes and are as a whole more useful > > He still has the same problems. His pre 6 isn't that impressive, therefore he gives up the ability to be proactive to all of the tier 1, 2 and even other 3 junglers. His post 6 is huge, but at the same time it isn't great. Yi's ganks are Shyvana-tier pre 6 and post 6, so trying to gain tempo is pointless since it's so difficult to gain as Yi. He's just so predictable, low ranged and doesn't have any CC, and you don't even need to ward against him if you have a rough idea of where he is. Tracking doesn't have to be exact against Yi like it does someone like Kha'Zix and Shaco since Yi is so useless. The current nerfed iteration of his ult has a short duration and doesn't feel that great at all for the Yi player if him and his team can't kill anything quickly enough for him to get a reset. He has to prep rageblade, conqueror and will usually have to look for a good opening to go in, unless both teams are just running away from their ADs and mages and into the enemy team. Also, if he gets behind he's not really getting back into the game, unless someone else enables him to (which is not uncommon in a solo queue environment, but hey if a team lets that happen with a Yi, they deserved to lose anyways) > > I'm not saying that I agree or disagree, I'm just saying that Yi still isn't reliable. There really is no effective way to itemize against on-hit Yi and he shreds everything, from squishy mages and ADs to the most durable bruisers and tanks but he still isn't consistent. Currently, Yi's winrate isn't looking so impressive. According to my sources, Yi isn't tier 1 or anything. if you filter the statistics to diamond, Yi has a 49.71% winrate with about 3000 games. Compared to other junglers, that's not impressive. The jungle god Kha'Zix has a 53% winrate with double the games. The Korean pocket pick Camille has a 53% winrate with triple Yi's. Even Lee Sin has over a 50% winrate with double Yi's games. Olaf and Xin have nutty winrates too with more pickrate than Yi. J4, Sej and Zac all have a winrate like Yi's but they have a far larger sample size as well. the following is another winrate website. Yi still is underperforming. Most junglers that are tier 1 and 2 in Korea and tier 1 and 2 in less competitive regions all have a higher winrate (see: Rek, Xin, Eve, Shaco, WW, Trundle, Kha, Jax, etc) and are all better than Yi. The same website is telling me that seasoned Rek, Kha and Camille players have about a 60% winrate with them. Winrate obviously isn't everything, but it tells me that Yi is still not easy to pull off. Yeah Yi does a lot of damage, but if he can't win games effectively, then that means that in the bigger picture his damage is not so problematic. His kit still has problems that allow Riot to justify the current (and miserable) state of Yi.
: {{item:3117}} only built rarely by roaming supports {{item:3009}} useless {{item:3006}} only built by marksman and Yasuo/Yi kiddies {{item:3158}} only built by mages but why build them when you can get pen {{item:3020}} only built by mages Other boots aren’t underpowered(except swiftness), they’re just a niche that serves only 1 role. If you’re looking for defensive boots as a melee champion(more than half of the champions in the game), you only have {{item:3047}}/{{item:3111}} , and not every game has a buttload of CC and mages. BUT every game has a right clicker or two minimum.
Only the Koreans buy bersekers greaves on Yasuo. The meta is different there, so they adapt Yasuo for their meta. In the other regions, Yasuo players opt for one of the defensive boots most of the time.
Elohaven (NA)
: Hey Riot - I think Yi needs a 100% look at with Conqueror
To be fair if he is able to even get to that point of the game without being significantly behind, he deserves to have damage, since that's the only thing he has. Keep in mind that the S tier junglers have cheaper builds, faster powerspikes and are as a whole more useful He still has the same problems. His pre 6 isn't that impressive, therefore he gives up the ability to be proactive to all of the tier 1, 2 and even other 3 junglers. His post 6 is huge, but at the same time it isn't great. Yi's ganks are Shyvana-tier pre 6 and post 6, so trying to gain tempo is pointless since it's so difficult to gain as Yi. He's just so predictable, low ranged and doesn't have any CC, and you don't even need to ward against him if you have a rough idea of where he is. Tracking doesn't have to be exact against Yi like it does someone like Kha'Zix and Shaco since Yi is so useless. The current nerfed iteration of his ult has a short duration and doesn't feel that great at all for the Yi player if him and his team can't kill anything quickly enough for him to get a reset. He has to prep rageblade, conqueror and will usually have to look for a good opening to go in, unless both teams are just running away from their ADs and mages and into the enemy team. Also, if he gets behind he's not really getting back into the game, unless someone else enables him to (which is not uncommon in a solo queue environment, but hey if a team lets that happen with a Yi, they deserved to lose anyways) I'm not saying that I agree or disagree, I'm just saying that Yi still isn't reliable. There really is no effective way to itemize against on-hit Yi and he shreds everything, from squishy mages and ADs to the most durable bruisers and tanks but he still isn't consistent.
Revali (NA)
: What're your runes? The best runes for Ekko jg IMO is Darkharvest/Electrocute Sudden Impact Zombie Ward Ravenous hunter Resolve Revitalize Chrysallis With these runes with talisman refillable you can clear quite easily and be at a healthy enough hp for a lvl 3 gank provided you start the camp that botlane leashes. His buildpath is equally okay with a tankier or more damaging build with ibg/abyssal being your core defensive items with liandrys and void being your offensive ones with runic. a more damaging build is something akin to runic/sorc/lb.
Thoughts on arcsecond's build? He starts machete instead of talisman and goes sorcery instead of resolve
MirrorU (NA)
: I'll sum this up quickly, this game has nothing to do with balance and never will. Ideally this game would be balanced, but they picked the rito balance team out of a cracker jack box and now their idea of balance is to just endlessly buff the same broken champs and never fix what's wrong. I give you prime examples, {{champion:11}}, {{champion:157}}, {{champion:67}}, {{champion:75}}, {{champion:105}}, {{champion:238}}, and the list just goes on and on.
Buffing the same broken champs? Care to provide insight as to why characters like those are broken? Because all of the characters you listed (except Vayne) have clear counterplay and are pretty fair to play against. (except Vayne, again. But even then, its arguable) Also, all of those (except Yasuo, who is only close to playable due to his new keystone, and Vayne) are all dumpster tier picks
KazKaz (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kaìju,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jj43HQ5Z,comment-id=00030001000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-04-07T17:33:30.553+0000) > > Kalista isn't a hyper carry. I mean....she sure as hell acts like one.
She lacks the damage at the latest stages of the game to be one
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=guccì gang,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r1J8wOEo,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-04-04T01:20:23.010+0000) > > Some people can't help it when they get autofilled and no one wants to swap roles. If an autofilled person is a one-trick, what do? Those people are not the subject of this thread. The subject of this thread are people who treat ranked like it's normals, playing new champions and new builds there without any concern for whether or not they win.
Samuloo (NA)
: Is it really so hard to go into Ranked with champs you're experienced with?
Some people can't help it when they get autofilled and no one wants to swap roles. If an autofilled person is a one-trick, what do?
: Why is amumu forced to be a terrible character for so long?
Amumu has his fair share of problems: All of his power is budgeted onto his ult Telegraphed and mostly binary kit Early game not suited for a Kha'Zix and Sejuani meta His numbers aren't that impressive either He probably won't see competitive play until some of these are fixed. That could mean he gets buffed, a Volibear type change, or a slightly bigger rework. And of course, early game junglers probably wouldn't be as prevalent as they are now
Lucky for you Nasus is very weak right now, has a long ass W cooldown, gets easily cucked by peel just like bruisers comparable to Nasus, and has no other way to get onto a priority backline target aside from flash
Thimes v2 (EUW)
: You mean Nocuturne by pressing R, Kha'Zix by pressing Q or Rengar by one-clicking once?
> Rengar by one-clicking once? I too remember when Rengar was a useful champion, but that's not now right now Unfortunately his "revert" made his burst extremely unreliable and weak until he has a few items. His revert Q is single target, forces him to be on top of his target and doesn't disrupt knockbacks, unlike his swim Q. It also doesn't give that much more damage. His duskblade spike does not give more damage than it did before. Ninja tabi counters his burst even harder than before. But wait, I just looked into your match history and found that you never buy ninja tabi and main one of the easiest ADs to kill. I wonder why Rengar is able to right click on you once... But hey if you don't like giving up the strongest anti-assassin item in favor for attack speed that's up to you
: Twisted Treeline needs some adjustment
Unfortunately there is not a large enough player base to have a more fair matchmaking. Queuing at specific times in the day (or night, I don't know what time zones people live in) are a death sentence for some players, and for others allow easy win trading. Try to learn and avoid the times where the win traders, smurfs, etc. queue.
: > [{quoted}](name=Pennywise Main,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M0w6AX9f,comment-id=00620000,timestamp=2018-03-08T19:48:44.336+0000) > > Hey, I found the Gold V ADC main. > > Play a thousand games of Shaco and then play a thousand games of Khazix or Lee Sin. Which feels the worst? Lmao. hello friendo
Wait if that’s your actual account what’s the point of comparing me to meddler? Also I’m pretty sure I already have a 1000 games on Shaco
: Hey, I found the Gold V ADC main. Play a thousand games of Shaco and then play a thousand games of Khazix or Lee Sin. Which feels the worst? Lmao.
> Gold V ADC main. My ranked statistics from last season say otherwise. 200 games on Shaco with a 65% winrate. Previously D5. My next most played is like Jarvan 4 or something... with 7 games. I understand why Shaco feels bad which is why I’m proposing changes that make him feel better to play Assuming that’s your main account, your ranked statistics on Shaco and your general statistics are not that impressive. Mediocre rank, far below average Shaco winrate, equally awful stats on champs you don’t play. Why are you shit talking mine? Is it because I understand how healthy Shaco’s mechanics are and you don’t? You know, there are plenty of high elo players who believe the game shouldn’t be balanced around low elo players. While what they say is true, riot also has to cater for the casual scene (you know, bronze all the way up to your rank last season) to make money too. They are a company in the gaming industry after all Read my entire response next time. Actually, for this thread just read my first 2 proposed changes.
: 8.6 Duskblade and related changes
The Shaco sub in a nutshell: “omg these nerfs screw us over” “no dmg early no dmg late” “shit change to q useless ass spell” “e fkin sux omg” ~~”fku rito gaems”~~ The Shaco sub is ready to invade the boards with pitchforks since they feel that the changes aren’t helping. They are convinced that these are stealth nerfs. Opinions like this are also shared in the rest of this thread apparently. I won’t share my opinion on these changes but I have a problem with them: Obviously they **might** be biased but I can agree that Shaco’s Q will feel underwhelming to level up and his damage early won’t improve much even when he’s maxing E. Allow me to propose change: - Add a base damage to his Q and maybe re-add the cooldown refund on first attack after Q to his Q, and reduce E’s bonus AD scaling. The numbers could look like 10/20/30/40/50 damage (edit: the ratios could look like 0.05/0.1/0.15/0.2/0.25 for either bonus AD or AP but I don’t think this is required) and (maybe) 0/0.25/0.5/0.75/1 cooldown refund. As for E: 60/75/90/105/120% bonus AD and 75% AP —> reduce by 10 or 15% bonus AD and 75% AP. What these changes do: (small) buff to Shaco’s early, (small but not that noticeable) nerf to mid, and compensation nerf to late. The intention of my proposed change is to make Shaco feel (much) better early and make Q feel better to level. Since you’re already changing his kit to better suit early game, might as well commit to that since apparently his damage was “nerfed at all stages of the game” and his E does “no damage even with maxed E without items.” - Add some base more base damage to his E and reduce the scaling. This is another buff to early and mild nerf to late. The numbers could be similar to my proposed Q change: add some base damage, use the same bonus AD ratio. Ideally the base damage for me would be 10 or 15 more base damage at all levels. What this will do will make his E do more damage than his autos early game and the start of mid game. His E feels kind of underwhelming when you are level 3-9. - Here’s something that I’m pretty sure only I would want to see and would cause controversy: put a modified Rengar’s swim Q on Shaco’s E (and obviously there would be no empowered version.) Shaco would not have to invest in a tiamat, meaning he could go for something like duskblade instead, which is part of what I want. This would also make his E also less boring, underwhelming and increase outplay potential for both Shaco and his opponents (who don’t really have much outplay potential with this current iteration of Shaco anyways, aside from skillfully buying ninja tabi and hoping he’s strong enough to not one-shot you through your armor.) This will also (hopefully) make his E do more damage than an auto. And here’s the biggest change that the Shaco sub wants: powerful damage and a powerful spell that’s especially effective early game, unlike his current E. Here’s what I would imagine it would be: remove the execute his current E has, make the cooldown a little bit longer than current E, have reduced damage to everything that aren’t champs and epic monsters so that Shaco’s clear speed doesn’t go from very fast to faster than Nidalee and Graves when they were most broken. The active ability would not have a slow and the damage might look like Rengar’s old numbers. Obviously you could and definitely would have to tune them. Obviously you could adjust numbers and would consider this if Shaco is undertuned if you go through with your changes
: > [{quoted}](name=BigBonedCartman,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z7Ex4xin,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-24T23:26:15.624+0000) > > if shaco is a toxic champion what janna is? i said he is the MOST toxic.. not the ONLY toxic... there are a hell of a lot of other toxic kits. {{champion:40}} and {{champion:223}} are worse to face than {{champion:117}} or {{champion:412}} are. the thing is toxic kits dont stop being toxic because they have counterplay... shaco for example HAS counterplay. a toxic kit is toxic as long as they keep the kit toxic.. other champ are are a pain to face because they are op or lack counterplay. for example a champ that is toxic because they LACK proper counter-play would be {{champion:157}} but take something as simple as the knockup on his dash OR increase of letting him dash through enemy minions make his dash though his own.. and he would be MUCH easier to deal with.
I know I'm kind of late to discuss anything, seeing how this thread is pretty old, but I'd like to argue against Yasuo having no counterplay. Yasuo is a bad example of a champ that lacks counterplay. He's "toxic" not because he lacks proper counterplay, but because his matchups are too polarizing. He's the Kalista of the skirmishers His counterplay: - Respect his level 2. It's not as good as it was before fervor was removed but kill pressure is still there - Manage waves better and freeze in front of your tower as often as you can. This way he can't run you down effectively, since going towards your tower is a death sentence because it exposes him to ganks and it's more difficult to take a tower shot - Know where you're able to step. If you let him engage onto you with E, that's on you because that means you're not managing waves well and you have 2 seconds to move back, which is more than you think - Understand that his wall is on a long ass cooldown and him missing his passive forces him to be slightly more far back, meaning you get plenty of time to farm if you play the lane well - Understand that if you don't have point-and-click CC, you have to be more safer in laning phase - Know his powerspikes; level 2, level 6, PD and IE are the biggest ones off of the top of my head - Yasuo is extremely squishy without his defensive tools (obviously) so during the time in which he has nothing this is the time where pressuring is slightly more easier but you can also farm as I said before - In a teamfight, literally just don't clump together. This can be said for a lot of champs. Nothing more to be said here - In a teamfight, if he's able to flank, that just means someone mispositioned, he got a really good TP or someone's not peeling carries. This is not easy to fix but not hard either - When he's split pushing, send your assassin, bruiser or tank to defend. If your ADC is too weak, he will walk over him. If your mage is too weak, he will walk over him. If your support is too squishy, he will walk over him - You can move forward if Yasuo E's over you, since Yasuo's E is set to a preset distance and this separates yourself from him. You can also move in a direction that stops Yasuo from using E, move in a direction where Yasuo doesn't want to E, etc. - You can juke Yasuo Q. Much like Rengar pre-revert Q, Yasuo Q is a mindgame and can be dodged at point blank range if you move to the correct side You stated Shaco has counterplay, and this amount of counterplay is much more than Shaco's: - Don't greed in lane even though early game his damage is pretty low if you can't get someone to stand on a box for the entire duration (which never happens unless you're 1v1ing someone in the jungle) in other words just manage waves well, he can't gank your lane if it's not free and you're too far up - Don't greed in side lane after 12 minutes - Don't greed for a kill on Shaco after 20 minutes if he escapes after killing a carry because he can likely turn - Don't isolate yourself if you're too squishy - Buy ninja tabis - Have a few red trinkets - Use something on Shaco before he ults that indicates whether or not you're hitting a clone - Check Shaco's buff bar to see if he is clone and ping clone (hard to do in combat, so have an ally do this I guess) - Have vision on dragon and place deep wards where Shaco stealths from The first 5 of these apply to Yasuo as well. Shaco is point and click, and stat checks harder than Yasuo. You can dodge Yasuo's spells, and believe it or not you can kite Yasuo by maneuvering yourself into awkward positions for Yasuo where his dash isn't going. In an actual fight, all you can do is be prepared and bait out clone so that he doesn't dodge a key spell with it. "Don't give him a lead" applies to both champs, as they are both snowbally. Therefore, either Yasuo has counterplay or Shaco lacks "proper" counterplay, and I argue that Yasuo has counterplay His matchups: - Top lane is awful for him because most bruisers can just stat check him and run him down in lane because Yasuo top sucks when it's not good. This especially happens when the bruiser reaches a power spike (duh) - Tanks are okay because he can take klepto, but still he doesn't really do anything aside from farm - Some mages are extremely hard to lane against (Malz and Annie come to mind) while others are next to free and feel awful against Yasuo - Other skirmishers are usually able to just kill him because he's difficult to play into other skirmishers (Jax, Fiora and Yi come to mind) - ADCs feel awful against wind wall - ~~Ninja tabi exists but hey ninja tabi fucks over everyone else too~~ In conclusion, Yasuo doesn't lack counterplay. There is a ton of clear counterplay aside from draft something that counters him (Also Shaco players aren't asking for buffs, they're asking for compensation for when duskblade gets nerfed and for QoL changes/small updates, like Rengar recieved. Try playing Shaco yourself, all of his damage is from duskblade and before that he feels awful to play. Even his autos without backstab outdamage his E until duskblade. Even when he has duskblade his damage is not up to par with other assassins until 2.5-3 items)
Afelers (EUNE)
: In early game, yes, but what about his late game especially with his much needed dark harvest? He just appears behind you and does his skillful right click and point and click E combo and any carry is gone in a blink. He can't even be spotted anymore thanks to true invisibility. Yeah, you might need to wait til late game for that to happen but it's worth the wait.
What do you mean? This never happens If Shaco is doing this to you then you’re just not a good player. Shaco has no useful scalings or base damage, what you’re referring to is your incompetence; ninja tabi is 1100 gold and cuts his damage significantly. Also, if he took dark harvest and did well he deserves to do that since dark harvest doesn’t outdamage electrocute until about 45 minutes, which never happens when Shaco is in the game Shaco’s power curve mirrors Kayn’s power curve except he has a worse early, slightly worse mid and slightly better late. Just get better at the game
bbQsauçe (EUW)
: ***
Zed’s E has a higher base damage than Shaco’s entire kit. The guy you responded to is talking about Shaco’s bases relative to other assassins Don’t talk about his ult explosion or his W damage because his ult explosion is easy to dodge and the 10 damage the box would do to an enemy champ is irrelevant
: check the warwick mains subreddit.
Why not just go triforce? I remember Pants are Dragon bought this a few times in the past, and doing this allows you to not miss out on cinderhulk
: > [{quoted}](name=Bârd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HMxtbPL2,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2018-02-22T21:16:25.866+0000) > > No, that isn't really a thing. > If your build isn't stupid, they aren't gonna flame you by pinging your items (unless they're just idiots who don't know what a good item build is), they're gonna flame you with missing pings and chat. > > There's plenty of reasons to ping items. > > If I see an {{champion:32}} going {{item:3027}} I'm pinging that. > If I see any ADC but {{champion:119}} {{champion:429}} buying an early {{item:3072}} I'm pinging that. > If I see {{champion:19}} building {{item:3153}} I'm pinging that. > If you buy {{item:1083}} and haven't proc'd it by 20 minutes, I'm pinging that. And if {{champion:32}} is an amumu main and has built that items for hundreds of games, he's just gonna get mad at you for pinging it. That item carried him to his current ELO. It's not going to be the reason you lose that game.
I don't like this statement: > That item carried him to his current ELO. Unless that item is ardent censer during the ardent censer meta, no it probably hasn't. There hasn't been a single item as strong as ardent censer by itself for as long as I can remember. An off build like banner and zzrot portal on Garen mid isn't going to boost your rank, for example. Something like AP Ezreal isn't going to boost your rank unless it becomes meta. Usually these builds can be replaced by another item, multiple items or champion. Most off-meta builds are found at a lower rank, you can usually find evidence by looking at the top of the ladder in major servers. Granted, there are exceptions (for example rat irl is known for his Twitch, and jungles with him too. Pink Ward, while usually found lower on the ladder, one tricks Shaco top) but usually they are uncommon. On the opposite side of challenger is bronze, which is where weird builds are more common. Youtubers like Kshaway and thelolhounds sometimes put players like these on their videos. For example, in a recently uploaded thelolhounds video part of his bronze spectates series, I saw a Shaco with a bloodthirster and a death's dance. Obviously that build is garbage. An Amumu who buys RoA would probably have a higher winrate with a full tank build, a liandries instead of RoA or even a full AP build. > It's not going to be the reason you lose that game. ~~Maybe not, but it's possible. A Sona with lich bane can make a game much more different than a game in which the Sona has ardent censer. The same can happen when a tank jungler has an adaptive helm instead of a locket, or a Vayne against 2 reliable CCs who buys a zeal instead of a QSS during mid game. Ninja tabi, arguably one of the most broken items is able to completely warp the state of a lane, an assassin's power level, etc. If a Yasuo is able to buy an early ninja tabi against Zed, the lane is over, and this can turn the game into a win if Yasuo is good at the game. An ADC with a ninja tabi against something like Camille Kha'Zix reduces a ton of their damage, and if the support has one too then they lose a lot of their threat. A RoA at 10 minutes is far more different than a RoA at 20 minutes on Amumu or for any AP character in the game. Power spikes are very important and buying certain items at certain times can completely warp the outcome of the game~~
: Vayne really shouldn't be allowed to go top
Why pick Vayne top when you can play her bot with the current targon's overheal fleet footwork build and be just about as safe without nearly ruining your team comp? Why pick Vayne when Jayce exists?
: I want to get into LCS as an ADC. I'm Gold III currently. How much faith do you have in me?
That's going to be really difficult and might take a while. A 50% winrate in gold 3 isn't impressive and is extremely far from high master. Even then, you may not be noticed by an org. Not saying that you can't though. I've heard of stories of people accomplishing huge things. I've heard of players climb from bronze 5 all the way to master and challenger. However, you should try to get to D3 first. I have a few resources for you: should be helpful for getting to D5, and from there you can improve everything by yourself and climb since you will probably know what to work on https://www. xFSN Saber is a challenger AD main https://www. Prismal is a challenger AD main too https://w LS is a coach, you can learn general macro here there are plenty of educational league of legends streams here, for example the above 2: https://www https://www. To answer the title question: not much to be honest, but I think you can prove me wrong. Good luck Edit: I'm going to fix the links by adding a space in between them Edit 2: You will probably also have to adapt to the meta later
Velgam (NA)
: But come on, he should atleast be able to clear faster than an ezreal. Ezreal still gets level 3 about as fast as Shaco, and can even keep up with Nidalee and Shyvana afterwards Just because Ez jungle isn’t meta anymore doesn’t mean he sucks as one now. He’s just sees more play as an ADC
: Pantheon is so fun to lane against
I just went to your and found that in the Singed vs Pantheon game your items were greedy as hell. I agree that Pantheon is oppressive but the first few items you bought were damage instead of armor... Also know that if you were playing anything that isn't Singed I would be telling you to buy a doran's shield since pretty much only Singed does proxy at 2 minutes Let's look at what you bought: Start of the game: a doran's ring and 2 pots. If I remember correctly, Singed starts dark seal but I don't really care about this 2 minutes: boots... why not just get cloth armor? That helps you proxy too, and looking a the kill map on, it looks like you were proxying here 3 minutes: rejuv bead. Looking at the kill map on, it looks like you were proxying here. It also looks like you died to Pantheon here. It also looks like you died to Pantheon in the middle of lane at 4 minutes. A cloth armor would've helped here too, no? 7 minutes: blasting wand. I can't tell if you were laning or proxying here, but if you were laning, why not just go ninja tabi? Looking at the kill map, it looks like you died at the tribush at 8 minutes 10 minutes: amp tome. Not sure whether you buy this before or after you died to Pantheon but this is irrelevant for now I guess 12 minutes: you buy a health crystal, and I assume this is after you die to Pantheon. You bought your first defensive stat, this is good. Too bad you're too late By 14 minutes, you complete rylais and and boots of swiftness. However, you still don't have any armor. You also still do not have a corrupting pot, an extremely strong item, especially on Singed. You also bought swiftness that is only barely usable against... a Janna. That extra 15 movespeed and slow resist is useless. And when you decided that you were going to lane instead of continuing proxying, you didn't buy a doran's shield. Nice one Pantheon is strong, especially in lane, but you didn't even try to do anything about his poke...
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