: Pretty sure the "like ten" was an example, not a final number. They also clearly stated that they're going to err on the side of "he's trolling" if you get much below a 50% win rate in a role, and they'll drag your main position down more aggressively as a result. Combined with the softer than normal reset, you won't be able to bomb your placements and get a significantly lower starting rank. In short, there's nothing to assume someone could manipulate this without more concrete numbers, and if they do see people manipulating it in the test regions they'll dial the numbers in to make it harder to manipulate.
> [{quoted}](name=DrCyanide,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QnHRIFio,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-18T03:28:07.511+0000) > > Pretty sure the "like ten" was an example, not a final number. They also clearly stated that they're going to err on the side of "he's trolling" if you get much below a 50% win rate in a role, and they'll drag your main position down more aggressively as a result. Combined with the softer than normal reset, you won't be able to bomb your placements and get a significantly lower starting rank. > > In short, there's nothing to assume someone could manipulate this without more concrete numbers, and if they do see people manipulating it in the test regions they'll dial the numbers in to make it harder to manipulate. Another possible easy abuse that I can think of is I duo with a another person and we both pick our weak roles (silver V), then in game we switch to our strongest roles and level it up to gold (perhaps to get the exclusive rewards associated with getting to gold in more than 1, 2 etc).
: Pretty sure the "like ten" was an example, not a final number. They also clearly stated that they're going to err on the side of "he's trolling" if you get much below a 50% win rate in a role, and they'll drag your main position down more aggressively as a result. Combined with the softer than normal reset, you won't be able to bomb your placements and get a significantly lower starting rank. In short, there's nothing to assume someone could manipulate this without more concrete numbers, and if they do see people manipulating it in the test regions they'll dial the numbers in to make it harder to manipulate.
> [{quoted}](name=DrCyanide,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QnHRIFio,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-18T03:28:07.511+0000) > > Pretty sure the "like ten" was an example, not a final number. They also clearly stated that they're going to err on the side of "he's trolling" if you get much below a 50% win rate in a role, and they'll drag your main position down more aggressively as a result. Combined with the softer than normal reset, you won't be able to bomb your placements and get a significantly lower starting rank. > > In short, there's nothing to assume someone could manipulate this without more concrete numbers, and if they do see people manipulating it in the test regions they'll dial the numbers in to make it harder to manipulate. My numbers are not concrete as well just pointing out one possible way one might overcome Riots system. I'm speaking with confidence because I got a friend who is platinum but ranked silver on his smurf, because he purposely trolls there to keep the account rank low enough to play with friends in bronze elo. Infact, he was actually bronze 5 last season cuz he wanted to feel how bad it really was. And his win rates are around 50%. One does not have to go full out inting and tank the winrate to keep an account low. For example, he can play anivia support and use wall to block off teammates. Then when he plays with friends, he actually tries in the support role and carry the game. Then when he climbs too high (usually when hes about to complete placement to next division), he starts trolling again, either going troll picks like Teemo support or outright inting again with Zilean etc. After 2 seasons of doing this he was never punished and rewarded often. But thats just an extreme example to show how one can abuse the system. Not saying that placement queues are going to be that bad or anything and there will always be trolls, but just concerned that the game quality will be downgraded to the current Flex queue lvl. Placement ranks can certainly work really well if all the issues that can arise is considered and proper check and balances are in place to counter them. The check and balences can be gradually be more reliable if we think about ways people can break them. The current system which has been out for years, just isn't very good at detecting legitimate trolls, so I question how good Riots new troll detection will be in the new rank.
: 2nd issue It doesn't matter how hard you are trying ,the system will assign you to your deserved rank. It is like lifting 20kg for a strong person and for the weak person. Eventually the will both lift this 20kg . It is a matter of how many efforts you input to this. Same in league 1 player by trolling can reach same rank as another one trying. Different inputs, same output.
> [{quoted}](name=Paravozikchoocho,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QnHRIFio,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-10-18T02:37:12.062+0000) > > 2nd issue > It doesn't matter how hard you are trying ,the system will assign you to your deserved rank. > It is like lifting 20kg for a strong person and for the weak person. > Eventually the will both lift this 20kg . It is a matter of how many efforts you input to this. > Same in league 1 player by trolling can reach same rank as another one trying. Different inputs, same output. But u are assuming people play at a constant effort, What i meant is people just basically mess around. Some games they will play hard and some games they troll pick, much like the current game quality of flex queue. So as a result, my concern is it will actually downgrade the game quality of solo queue and make it feel more like the current flex queue. Now, this does not mean we should not do positional ranks due to these concerns, it just means that Riot must consider all the possible negative impacts and have checks and balances in place. Theres somewhere in this comment section that someone posted. It seems that Riot actually shared the SAME concerns that I did, but now the question is if their current checks and balances will be effect enough / not easily abused.
: Bro do you know how long and arduous it is to troll for 3 or 4 games and then play "seriously" and then troll again? It's literally a chore. People don't gain in-game incentives to troll or not troll. It's a human condition. Some people enjoy pissing people off. Some don't. Some like actually trying hard, some like trying new things with new champs, and everywhere in between. And those people who enjoy truly pissing people off -true trolling- they're gonna do it regardless of the ranked matchmaking system.
> [{quoted}](name=sneakydoug,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QnHRIFio,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-10-18T02:24:03.259+0000) > > Bro do you know how long and arduous it is to troll for 3 or 4 games and then play "seriously" and then troll again? > It's literally a chore. > > People don't gain in-game incentives to troll or not troll. It's a human condition. Some people enjoy pissing people off. Some don't. Some like actually trying hard, some like trying new things with new champs, and everywhere in between. > > And those people who enjoy truly pissing people off -true trolling- they're gonna do it regardless of the ranked matchmaking system. As i said earlier what I meant by Troll can mean just messing around rather, doesn't have to be pissing ppl off on purpose. Flex for example, is a pretty troll queue atm.
: You'll have to post a link to that interview, because I'm not seeing it on the League of Legends YouTube channel.
> [{quoted}](name=DrCyanide,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QnHRIFio,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-10-18T02:28:51.808+0000) > > You'll have to post a link to that interview, because I'm not seeing it on the League of Legends YouTube channel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbi7qWVnIQ8&t=6s
: I think you're 4 months late in your criticism, they've already got an answer to that. https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2018/06/dev-addressing-your-feedback-on-ranked-for-2019/
> [{quoted}](name=DrCyanide,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QnHRIFio,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-10-18T02:05:44.268+0000) > > I think you're 4 months late in your criticism, they've already got an answer to that. > https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2018/06/dev-addressing-your-feedback-on-ranked-for-2019/ According to a interview video posted a week ago, the lead ranked designer said if you lost like 10 games or so in a row then the splashing happens. With that in mind, this can be abused. I'll troll for 3 games, then play for win, then can troll for another 5 games or so etc. And even if I do get splashed, one or two wins with m main position will win it back. And if I troll and got placed in silver, bronze, or even iron, as a Gold or higher ranked player you should easily get wins once you decide to stop trolling. Then as a result you might get positive splashes and/or unlock more free troll games where you will be unaffected when you lose. I feel like its very easy to dodge this system.
: > [{quoted}](name=546f7047756e,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QnHRIFio,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-18T01:48:09.162+0000) > > No by troll I meant either inting, or playing a troll pick. You already see a lot of this type of trolling happening in flex queue. Leona adc, teemo support, Thresh mid, etc. because people don't care about flex rank as much. Yes and those players find their way to their proper rank. As someone who also flex queues I literally never see any of those at platinum league. Seriously, as it presently stands, trying to learn a new role at platinum rank you have the option of either a) going to normals, where literally everyone is "trolling." b) playing against bots, which gives nowhere near the same learning experience or entertainment c) play in ranked anyways, where you get your face smashed in and have 4 players nerd-rage at you for "trolling" Riot has now modified option 'c' to give players who want to diverge a little bit more a fighting chance. But I'm sorry, so so sorry, that not all of us like to 1 trick all day.
> [{quoted}](name=sneakydoug,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QnHRIFio,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-18T01:54:27.210+0000) > > Yes and those players find their way to their proper rank. > As someone who also flex queues I literally never see any of those at platinum league. > Seriously, as it presently stands, trying to learn a new role at platinum rank you have the option of either > a) going to normals, where literally everyone is "trolling." > b) playing against bots, which gives nowhere near the same learning experience or entertainment > c) play in ranked anyways, where you get your face smashed in and have 4 players nerd-rage at you for "trolling" > > Riot has now modified option 'c' to give players who want to diverge a little bit more a fighting chance. That is true and I hope it works just fine, but the concern is modifying option c will cause ranked games to feel more like flex/normal, especially at ranks gold and under when people play their off roles and doesn't really care about their rank in that role. And it won't really reflect their true rank if they don't care as much, one game they might actually try, another they might play a troll pick. So as a result balance of games will still feel just as bumpy, if not bumpier. Its not about one tricks, its about people not caring as much/abusing the new system. Perhaps that is why Riot is trying out this mode one region at a time.
: > [{quoted}](name=546f7047756e,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QnHRIFio,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-10-18T01:30:05.493+0000) > > For the last issue I'm just saying it will be even bigger since trolling in ranks won't affect their main rank much, if at all if they know how to dodge system detection. > If someone decides to "troll" (here, I assume whenever you say "troll," it's interchangeable with "have fun and dont be a 100% try-hard) the ranked system will work as it already does and reassign them to a rank where they are winning 50% of their games and losing 50% of their games. It seems like you operate under an assumption that everyone in the game is a fully willing and eager "troll" in waiting and that the promise of a flashy cool gold border or shiny "platinum" logo beside their name is the only thing stopping everyone from "trolling." Personally, as a platinum jungle and support main, I'm looking forward to "trolling," or, you know, learning new ADC champs against similarly skilled opponents, without being completely smashed in the face by 100% 1t Kai'sa jhin main trains.
> [{quoted}](name=sneakydoug,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QnHRIFio,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-18T01:45:46.111+0000) > > If someone decides to "troll" (here, I assume whenever you say "troll," it's interchangeable with "have fun and dont be a 100% try-hard) the ranked system will work as it already does and reassign them to a rank where they are winning 50% of their games and losing 50% of their games. > It seems like you operate under an assumption that everyone in the game is a fully willing and eager "troll" in waiting and that the promise of a flashy cool gold border or shiny "platinum" logo beside their name is the only thing stopping everyone from "trolling." No by troll I meant either inting, or playing a troll pick. You already see a lot of this type of trolling happening in flex queue. Leona adc, teemo support, Thresh mid, etc. because people don't care about flex rank as much.
: "First, currently the NUMBER ONE unbalancing factor is actually people playing champs they are new to, rather than position." Yes but there's no easy fix for that one. A commonly suggested alternative is to restrict players from ranking with any champs they have low play-rates with. This is itself a complete logistical nightmare. Restricting players to a handful of potential champs during matchmaking processes completely ruin those players winning chances if their mains are taken, banned, or turn out to be completely unfavorable given the team or enemy champion composition. At least with this new system players have a larger window of opportunity to play a wider range of champions, and it eliminates a players need for role knowledge. For example, your elo might range from platinum to silver in the jungle, depending on what the champion is... but what's your elo with ADC? Personally, I'm horrid with ADC and I don't even bother trying it because of how frequently I get stomped compared to any other lane. But with a personal rank just for ADC, that's eliminated. Sure, I might do much better and win more frequently with lucian than with ashe, but under the current system I can't even try either. So while this new system isn't a magic bullet, it's a step up from the current one. "Second issue is when people stop caring as much. Maybe I'm not trolling on purpose, but when I try off roles in the new position ranks, I already know that I won't play in try hard mode, like I do in my main role, so isn't this just going to cause more ranked games where people just care less and not try their best in general? Right now I DON'T play support, but when i get auto filled support, I still try my ABSOLUTE best to try and win and of all the games i got support or other roles on my main account, I still did a decent job. HOWEVER if this was position rank and I get autofilled, I def won't try or care nearly as much. This trying new champion issue is not addressed in the new system but will perhaps ENCOURAGE more carelessness in ranked game play as a whole." If you play position rank and autofill and throw your games, you'll quickly find yourself at the same elo as other players who don't care and throw their games. This issue would resolve itself. Right now there's a similar problem with players being autofilled and doing the opposite of your claim -they hate autofill, and they feed or troll or dodge. This new system creates a bit of space to let autofilled players practice their role if they so choose to against similarly skilled opponents. Sure, plenty of players won't play support and will still not care regardless, but I don't see this making anything any worse. "Third issue is, legitamate trolls? What If im gold, plat or diamond, but just want to int in another off position to get that new IRON RANK, so when people look at my profile, my rank will be from Diamond, to IRON, just for the LOLs? Lets say, If I intentionally lose 5 games, win a game, then troll another 3, win one, then int another 5 etc, will the system be able to detect me trolling? Because currently the system is extremely bad at detecting inting and trolls. EVEN IF I do get detected and drop some LP in my main position (as Riot mentioned losing too much in a row might affect your main role rank as well), how much does that really matter If I know I got the skills to win that back anyway??? I'll just win 2 in my main position then int more in my off till I eventually get iron." This isn't a new issue and this isn't an issue that can be fixed with any matchmaking process.
> [{quoted}](name=sneakydoug,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QnHRIFio,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-18T01:18:56.976+0000) > > "First, currently the NUMBER ONE unbalancing factor is actually people playing champs they are new to, rather than position." > > Yes but there's no easy fix for that one. A commonly suggested alternative is to restrict players from ranking with any champs they have low play-rates with. This is itself a complete logistical nightmare. Restricting players to a handful of potential champs during matchmaking processes completely ruin those players winning chances if their mains are taken, banned, or turn out to be completely unfavorable given the team or enemy champion composition. > At least with this new system players have a larger window of opportunity to play a wider range of champions, and it eliminates a players need for role knowledge. For example, your elo might range from platinum to silver in the jungle, depending on what the champion is... but what's your elo with ADC? Personally, I'm horrid with ADC and I don't even bother trying it because of how frequently I get stomped compared to any other lane. But with a personal rank just for ADC, that's eliminated. Sure, I might do much better and win more frequently with lucian than with ashe, but under the current system I can't even try either. So while this new system isn't a magic bullet, it's a step up from the current one. > > "Third issue is, legitamate trolls? What If im gold, plat or diamond, but just want to int in another off position to get that new IRON RANK, so when people look at my profile, my rank will be from Diamond, to IRON, just for the LOLs? Lets say, If I intentionally lose 5 games, win a game, then troll another 3, win one, then int another 5 etc, will the system be able to detect me trolling? Because currently the system is extremely bad at detecting inting and trolls. EVEN IF I do get detected and drop some LP in my main position (as Riot mentioned losing too much in a row might affect your main role rank as well), how much does that really matter If I know I got the skills to win that back anyway??? I'll just win 2 in my main position then int more in my off till I eventually get iron." > > This isn't a new issue and this isn't an issue that can be fixed with any matchmaking process. For the last issue I'm just saying it will be even bigger since trolling in ranks won't affect their main rank much, if at all if they know how to dodge system detection. And for the first issue, I propose better and MORE DISTINGUISHABLE rewards for every division (Gold V, Gold 4 etc), and can just be a simple one like adding MUCH better distinguishable features on the border for each division. And get exclusive rewards if you are gold or above on 2, and 3, 4 and all 5 positions. Add unique rewards to gold and plat players, then more to diamonds. Rewards can be small from better looking borders, to big, like skins etc. BASICALLY add more rewards big or small the more people accomplish in ranks. DON'T make people feel like its "mission accomplished" once they reach Gold V or Plat V etc, make it feel like the next achievement reward unlock is always steps away. This will reduce the carelessness behavior in ranks, which is the number 1 unbalancing factor imo.
: Can the "Inting Sion" strat get you banned?
The only way the inting algorithms picks up inting if u only run into enemy and die. If you run into them, then run away every now and then other then just standing there and dieing, the system likely won't detect you.
Rioter Comments
: I'd add in that having the Clash Banner and trophy on the profile should be optional as tons of people don't even have them plus it's been terribly long since the last WORKING (somewhat buggy) Clash anyways. I personally don't have a trophy or banner and couldn't care less about seeing them if I did. There'd be a lot more space and feel way way less crowded if we had the option to not show those
> [{quoted}](name=AmWhaleIRL,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fKeKwZUO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-01T17:06:20.479+0000) > > I'd add in that having the Clash Banner and trophy on the profile should be optional as tons of people don't even have them plus it's been terribly long since the last WORKING (somewhat buggy) Clash anyways. > I personally don't have a trophy or banner and couldn't care less about seeing them if I did. > There'd be a lot more space and feel way way less crowded if we had the option to not show those Well said, who ever desgined the new menu simply doesn't know anything about art or user friendliness.
Rioter Comments
: Can't agree more, you see so many people getting to the V'th division spot then just stop playing ranks or stopped caring. If Riot gives out more distinguishable rewards, maybe people WILL NOT stop caring about their game performance once they reach V'th division and continue to play ranks, therefore NOT ONLY increases the amount of daily ranked players, BUT ALSO game balance overall, since people wont just mess around after reaching V'th division.
> [{quoted}](name=Supreme Predator,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PAToE4yE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-09-15T04:38:37.532+0000) > > Can't agree more, you see so many people getting to the V'th division spot then just stop playing ranks or stopped caring. If Riot gives out more distinguishable rewards, maybe people WILL NOT stop caring about their game performance once they reach V'th division and continue to play ranks, therefore NOT ONLY increases the amount of daily ranked players, BUT ALSO game balance overall, since people wont just mess around after reaching V'th division. Exactly, WIN-WIN!
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=546f7047756e,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tGBhP01M,comment-id=0001000100010000,timestamp=2018-09-14T06:08:52.351+0000) > > Well I dont know why they would do that but Im rasing a legitament issue and I encourage u to check na.op during ur ranked matches too see how balenced games are. Def not as balenced as previous seasons. This post takes 1 min, not gonna log into that other account, scroll threw history, then paste pictures no time for that. If Riot sees this and they dont think the balencign needs work, if you dont realise how much off balences games are compared to prev seasons, well all the powers to u guys. All u have to do is check na.op during ranked matches, no proof needed. in other words "I have no proof and I am unwilling to show proof... still please believe me!". Sorry but I don't care about a site that says one game "i'm above the average MMR of the rank you are in" WIN my next game and says "you are below the average MMR of the rank you are in"
> [{quoted}](name=ZephyrDrake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tGBhP01M,comment-id=00010001000100000000,timestamp=2018-09-14T18:00:58.070+0000) > > in other words "I have no proof and I am unwilling to show proof... still please believe me!". Sorry but I don't care about a site that says one game "i'm above the average MMR of the rank you are in" WIN my next game and says "you are below the average MMR of the rank you are in" I really dont care what u think at this point i have 31/11 thumbs up. Im not gonna waste time digging through my history when I you can simply take a look at anyones ranked proof is everywhere lmao! xD
: > [{quoted}](name=546f7047756e,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tGBhP01M,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-09-13T19:21:02.691+0000) > > So what is the point of me making this up? I wouldn't complain if that wasn't the case... > > This is my forum post account everytime i post i use this so i dont have to switch around and be unorganized. This way I can see what i said in the past my checking this account only. I don't know... so we can confirm that what you are saying is true? People say they have been 100-0 at lvl 1 and then you look at the replay you see them at 30% HP, engaging and dying due to the enemy champion AND minions hitting them. You can say whatever, doesn't mean much if we cannot confirm whether it's true or not
> [{quoted}](name=ZephyrDrake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tGBhP01M,comment-id=000100010001,timestamp=2018-09-13T20:32:29.925+0000) > > I don't know... so we can confirm that what you are saying is true? People say they have been 100-0 at lvl 1 and then you look at the replay you see them at 30% HP, engaging and dying due to the enemy champion AND minions hitting them. You can say whatever, doesn't mean much if we cannot confirm whether it's true or not Well I dont know why they would do that but Im rasing a legitament issue and I encourage u to check na.op during ur ranked matches too see how balenced games are. Def not as balenced as previous seasons. This post takes 1 min, not gonna log into that other account, scroll threw history, then paste pictures no time for that. If Riot sees this and they dont think the balencign needs work, if you dont realise how much off balences games are compared to prev seasons, well all the powers to u guys. All u have to do is check na.op during ranked matches, no proof needed.
: Why not post on that other account so maybe we could see proof of this “multiple silver 1s vs plats” in SoloQ Edit: stop responding talking about how shit flex queue is, this is known. Also FlexQ has a sesperate MMR.
> [{quoted}](name=Disembark,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tGBhP01M,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-09-13T10:07:39.466+0000) > > Why not post on that other account so maybe we could see proof of this “multiple silver 1s vs plats” in SoloQ So what is the point of me making this up? I wouldn't complain if that wasn't the case... This is my forum post account everytime i post i use this so i dont have to switch around and be unorganized. This way I can see what i said in the past my checking this account only.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Hibeki (NA)
: Regardless of whether it FEELS more involved i see no reason where click an hold cant also be an option here. spam click or hold click why not both
> [{quoted}](name=Hibeki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AVYRw0Yw,comment-id=000d00000001000100010000,timestamp=2018-08-15T13:41:49.402+0000) > > Regardless of whether it FEELS more involved i see no reason where click an hold cant also be an option here. spam click or hold click why not both Well said it doesn't affect anything and popularity of this post suggest that its worth testing it out. Its not like the old playstyle is thrown out you just have more options. I really hope on the next patch this will be tested out on PBE at least.
: That's why he's asking for it to be option if they want to hold is down. It's not a huge change and people can still button mash.
> [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AVYRw0Yw,comment-id=000d0007,timestamp=2018-08-14T20:09:04.542+0000) > > That's why he's asking for it to be option if they want to hold is down. It's not a huge change and people can still button mash. Well said.
: Note that I chose sample size based on vote participation (105 at the time of this post) which is less than 1/3 of what you need. Since you are choosing a third option to increase your sample size, your sample size requirements are met. However your final hand-waving assertion at the end is flawed (until you provide hard numbers/proof that not voting means agreement, which in most surveys isn't true). If we use the empirical evidence we have at hand... 13.8K views does not mean 13.8K approvals. You effectively have 3 options: 1) Agreement (Upvote; current count 96) 2) Disagreement (Downvote: current count 9) 3) Doesn't care (No feedback provided) either because they don't play Eve or don't care either way (or have an alternative approach; I fall into this category, for example). The problem you have right now, and why your assertion fails, is your sample isn't random (Boards users tend to be the vocal minority). However, your sample size is well over 385 correspondents (so you have a damned good sample size) so let's roll with it anyway. If we look at your breakdown, you have an approval/disapproval/other percentage of: 0.70% / 0.07% / 99.23% Thus, I stand by my assertion that you don't have overwhelming approval; you don't even have 1% of your sample side approving you. If we use my numbers (i.e., filtering out the did not respond), you have 91.43% approval rating, but too small a sample size. Either way, your assertion that you have overwhelming support is dubious at best.
> [{quoted}](name=Ayame Isaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AVYRw0Yw,comment-id=000d000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T16:25:14.242+0000) > > Note that I chose sample size based on vote participation (105 at the time of this post) which is less than 1/3 of what you need. Since you are choosing a third option to increase your sample size, your sample size requirements are met. However your final hand-waving assertion at the end is flawed (until you provide hard numbers/proof that not voting means agreement, which in most surveys isn't true). > > If we use the empirical evidence we have at hand... > > 13.8K views does not mean 13.8K approvals. You effectively have 3 options: > > 1) Agreement (Upvote; current count 96) > 2) Disagreement (Downvote: current count 9) > 3) Doesn't care (No feedback provided) either because they don't play Eve or don't care either way (or have an alternative approach; I fall into this category, for example). > > The problem you have right now, and why your assertion fails, is your sample isn't random (Boards users tend to be the vocal minority). However, your sample size is well over 385 correspondents (so you have a damned good sample size) so let's roll with it anyway. > > If we look at your breakdown, you have an approval/disapproval/other percentage of: > > 0.70% / 0.07% / 99.23% > > Thus, I stand by my assertion that you don't have overwhelming approval; you don't even have 1% of your sample side approving you. > > If we use my numbers (i.e., filtering out the did not respond), you have 91.43% approval rating, but too small a sample size. > > Either way, your assertion that you have overwhelming support is dubious at best. Yet you totally ignored the fact that the upvote itself is inline with the percentage of voting participation with all other posts on this board as I already mentioned, therefore it reflects the rating of all the viewers. And you forgot the neutral or care can fall into the same category, only concern is people who really do not want this change, which is extremely minuscule. And why isn't boards random? Doesn't get more random than this since people are not determined to be pro eve or against it, just random lol players.....Brain? And lets not forget, you suggested how more players = more sample size needed, when in fact that is not true. So I don't get why you're still arguing when I just gave you a free statistic analysis math lesson lol. You literally have no idea, just stop lol. xD
: This is a useful idea when the cooldown is low. Otherwise, they don't shoot off frequently enough to matter.
> [{quoted}](name=The Highest Noon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AVYRw0Yw,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2018-08-14T15:03:50.915+0000) > > This is a useful idea when the cooldown is low. Otherwise, they don't shoot off frequently enough to matter. I think it still shoots way too frequently at level one, but regardless, I also suggested press and hold and ability to tap for every launch, tap once, launch once, press and hold, launch all 3. W/e the player wants to do.
: Holding it is a buff btw, a slight one but still a buff. As it has a CD between uses, holding it would always make the ability go the frame it becomes available, which is better than what people can spam tap. I don't disagree that this is a good thing for her to have, but in no way is this just quality of life.
> [{quoted}](name=Ulquiorra0123,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AVYRw0Yw,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2018-08-14T11:27:10.800+0000) > > Holding it is a buff btw, a slight one but still a buff. As it has a CD between uses, holding it would always make the ability go the frame it becomes available, which is better than what people can spam tap. I don't disagree that this is a good thing for her to have, but in no way is this just quality of life. I would argue that the cool down is her intended power level. If you click too slow then you are not playing her to the max. And plus there is a roughly 0.2-0.3s delay between launch anyway, which is just enough for your finger to lift up and down. And if this is really a cause for concern then they can simply change the delay to 0.4s. Not really a roadblock issue.
: Your sample size is far too small to be of statistical significance. If you are going to be snarky, at least be right.
> [{quoted}](name=Ayame Isaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AVYRw0Yw,comment-id=000d0005000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T12:34:08.587+0000) > > Your sample size is far too small to be of statistical significance. If you are going to be snarky, at least be right. Actually no it isn't too small and doesn't really get better than this without emailing a survey to players, WHICH IS WHY I suggested changing Evelynn in next patch or even PBE test it and see reaction. But since ur original response (with-5 downvotes already) was so smart I'm not surprised. xD And further more here's some math for you... Necessary Sample Size = (Z-score)2 * StdDev*(1-StdDev) / (margin of error)2 Here is an example of how the math works assuming you chose a 95% confidence level, .5 standard deviation, and a margin of error (confidence interval) of +/- 5%. ((1.96)2 x .5(.5)) / (.05)2 (3.8416 x .25) / .0025 .9604 / .0025 384.16 385 correspondents needed. As of the time of this response, 13.8k people viewed this post. The ratio of people who thumbs up and comment is in line with all other post, in other words, the amount of thumbs up accurately reflects the approval rating of 13.8k people.
: Maybe it's because I use a Ducky with Cherry MX Blues, but I find the Q spam rather satisfying (those fast loud clicks while I watch my enemy's health drop is nice). Your assertion: > The popularity of this post suggest overwhelming majority will like this change. ... is preposterous. Your 77 upvotes at the time of my reply do not mean anything in the grand scheme of things. League has millions of players. I'm not opposed to having some sort of option in the settings for this (I would love a setting to bring back Taliyah's old W), but if I have to choose your method or the current method, I'm going to choose the current method. Especially since I once mained old Eve (my M7 was earned on old Eve); mashing Q feels extremely natural.
> [{quoted}](name=Ayame Isaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AVYRw0Yw,comment-id=000d00050000,timestamp=2018-08-14T02:29:46.955+0000) > > Maybe it's because I use a Ducky with Cherry MX Blues, but I find the Q spam rather satisfying (those fast loud clicks while I watch my enemy's health drop is nice). > > Your assertion: > > ... is preposterous. Your 77 upvotes at the time of my reply do not mean anything in the grand scheme of things. League has millions of players. I'm not opposed to having some sort of option in the settings for this (I would love a setting to bring back Taliyah's old W), but if I have to choose your method or the current method, I'm going to choose the current method. Especially since I once mained old Eve (my M7 was earned on old Eve); mashing Q feels extremely natural. Oh, i guess in order to survey player opinion, you will have to survey every single player that plays league around the world, rather than random sampling. I see, smart logic makes sense. LOL xD
: Just popping in here as the playtester who worked on Evelynn. We didn't try this on Evelynn but we suspected that players would've liked the button mashy input and wanted to keep it. We did experiment with the press and hold input on other content and found that it was generally unsatisfying.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Novalas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AVYRw0Yw,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-08-13T19:00:35.351+0000) > > Just popping in here as the playtester who worked on Evelynn. > > We didn't try this on Evelynn but we suspected that players would've liked the button mashy input and wanted to keep it. We did experiment with the press and hold input on other content and found that it was generally unsatisfying. Thanks for the response. While I agree that pushing the button is more satisfying in general, I think the case on Evenlynn is a SPECIAL case. On top of my mind right now, I don't think there is actually another champ that requires you to spam an ability AS OFTEN AS Eve's q, don't think anything comes close to it when compared. When you are jgling with her, all you are doing most of the time is using her q. That's what you are doing none stop and basically without a break. So as a result, over time it becomes annoying and exhausting on the finger, wears down the q key a lot, and becomes even more so if you play her often. So I believe Eve is a special case due to the EXTRA amount of spam required on her q. I like Evelynn a lot, but the ONLY REASON I'm NOT playing her much is literally because of how annoying it is to use her q all game. Can you guys be kind enough to give this a second look, maybe change her in the next patch and see how people react to the change? That would be much appreciated. The popularity of this post suggest overwhelming majority will like this change. Thanks, and stay awesome! :)
  Rioter Comments
: This panda video ACCURATELY SUMMARIZES US TRYING TO ESCAPE OUR ELO :D
Wuks (NA)
: [RESOLVED] Emotes Not Displaying
Please fix it riot its so annoying to click and drag rune pages around right now. I put it somewhere and when i let go, often it just immediatly goes else where randomly sometimes all the way to the front etc. I have 17 pages btw. Can happen everywhere but for me when trying to insert from 5th to 2nd slot, it always jumps to first. You have to move from 5th to 4th, then it actually jumps to second (for you it might jump elsewhere). EDIT: Its EVEN MORE BUGGED than expected. I finally got my slots in this order after all the randomness: Hypersonic Predator, Voli TOP, Brand sup, Voli JG, Brand mid. This is the first 5 slots. HOWEVER when I go into champ select to chose runes the order from top down is actually: Hypersonic Predator, Voli TOP, Voli JG, Brand mid, Brand sup. I double checked, the rune page slots and champ select slots just don't line up. SOOO BUGGED! How can this be bugged isn't it just moving objects around in an array in terms of the coding? hmm weird.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
SanKakU (NA)
: Why are you being so diplomatic here and hate mongering in every other post I've seen about this scoreboard thing?
> [{quoted}](name=SanKakU,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp4iPuPE,comment-id=000e00000000,timestamp=2018-07-30T14:27:51.647+0000) > > Why are you being so diplomatic here and hate mongering in every other post I've seen about this scoreboard thing? ???
: ***
Agree smashed that upvote hard. I actually made the SAME post about this check it out upvote to increase chance of Riot employee seeing this. > > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/zp4iPuPE-riot-please-revert-scoreboard-patch
Velasan (NA)
: Yeah also the part where it doesn't show how many wards your allies have available. I could care less what their total ward score is in the middle of the game, I need to know if they can ward drag/baron; not that they warded sometime in the game at some point. I can check that kind of info in end game screen for "wards placed."
> [{quoted}](name=Velasan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp4iPuPE,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2018-07-29T23:13:00.316+0000) > > Yeah also the part where it doesn't show how many wards your allies have available. > > I could care less what their total ward score is in the middle of the game, I need to know if they can ward drag/baron; not that they warded sometime in the game at some point. I can check that kind of info in end game screen for "wards placed." At this point Riot is just forcing pointless changes just for the sake of change, instead of changing for the better or to fix things up.
: lol, fair enough, just tone down the hostility when conversing with someone who agrees with your central point
> [{quoted}](name=Yung Daemon Sand,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp4iPuPE,comment-id=00140000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-29T22:27:50.146+0000) > > lol, fair enough, just tone down the hostility when conversing with someone who agrees with your central point Read though all the comments you will see that you are only one of many who either completely missed point or talks about things that are totally pointless, that response/attitude was not just towards you, but the sum of all those comments.
: wait, so what does the sentence fragment "I want it to revert as well" mean to you if you think I missed your point?
> [{quoted}](name=Yung Daemon Sand,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp4iPuPE,comment-id=001400000000,timestamp=2018-07-29T21:43:01.458+0000) > > wait, so what does the sentence fragment "I want it to revert as well" mean to you if you think I missed your point? Because I already mentioned in my post that you can switch them but the change makes it more INCONVENIENT. So your point about first minute free is completely pointless, not to mention in high elo invades almost always happens right off the bat so first minute is not free.
: I def get your point and it is kinda annoying and I want it to revert as well, BUT you can change it manually, and everyone's argument about how much time it takes is negated by the free minute of doing nothing in the beginning of the game
> [{quoted}](name=Yung Daemon Sand,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp4iPuPE,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2018-07-29T21:08:31.320+0000) > > I def get your point and it is kinda annoying and I want it to revert as well, BUT you can change it manually, and everyone's argument about how much time it takes is negated by the free minute of doing nothing in the beginning of the game Except you completely missed the point that this change was completely unnecessary and its a downgrade to convenience. Why do I have to shuffle every game to line up when I didn't have to before?
: No, people downvote you because your point is pointless. If someone swaps roles, you can just move them manually. It's pain in the ass, but there's no reliable way to solve it other than this. But when they don't swap, which is majority of cases, you can actually prevent the player from losing several seconds as you can arrange it for them as there is a way you know who goes where. It has worked like that problemlessly for some time, no need to change it, you trying to boil out problem just to say something does not mean others are "League of Idiots". EDIT: Also most of the time when people swap, two poeple swap and swapping them manually doesn't take that much. But when entire scoreboard is rearranged, you have to move enarly everyone taking more time.
> [{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp4iPuPE,comment-id=0005000000000001,timestamp=2018-07-29T12:54:06.234+0000) > > No, people downvote you because your point is pointless. > If someone swaps roles, you can just move them manually. It's pain in the ass, but there's no reliable way to solve it other than this. > > But when they don't swap, which is majority of cases, you can actually prevent the player from losing several seconds as you can arrange it for them as there is a way you know who goes where. > > It has worked like that problemlessly for some time, no need to change it, you trying to boil out problem just to say something does not mean others are "League of Idiots". > > EDIT: Also most of the time when people swap, two poeple swap and swapping them manually doesn't take that much. But when entire scoreboard is rearranged, you have to move enarly everyone taking more time. SO WELL SAID. I can't believe the number of people here not understanding this simple logic/completely missing the point. Its unreal. xD
WAR321 (NA)
: Ladies and gentlemen, this is a BUG. There is nothing to revert, it wasn't an intentional change, and they are looking into a fix for 8.15.
> [{quoted}](name=WAR321,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp4iPuPE,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2018-07-29T15:30:34.417+0000) > > Ladies and gentlemen, this is a BUG. There is nothing to revert, it wasn't an intentional change, and they are looking into a fix for 8.15. Oh are you sure? That's good to know. :)
Nipsahoy (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=546f7047756e,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp4iPuPE,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-07-29T03:34:51.632+0000) > > Before your score board position was relitive to your role, so if ur jgler ur second place, if ur mid, you are 3rd place, if ur support ur last etc. But now you are at the top of scoreboard regardless. The problem with this is it takes a bit longer to compare your score with lane oppenent. For example if I'm adc and I want to see my score relative to enemy adc score, I now have to look top, then bottom, which creates delay in a game where every milisecond counts. > > > > SURE i do have option to move my position, but if I'm adc for example, i have to do a lot of shuffling to line my position up with enemy bot laners. (adc and support next to each other). It was really convenient before, please change it back, thanks! > > Upvote so Riot sees. Did you know you can rearrange the scoreboard in game by dragging the units around? You can fix it very easily if you want to. Takes two seconds :)
> [{quoted}](name=Nipsahoy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp4iPuPE,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-07-29T14:44:32.297+0000) > > Did you know you can rearrange the scoreboard in game by dragging the units around? You can fix it very easily if you want to. Takes two seconds :) You have to do it every game or else your role does not line up to enemy's like it used to. Before it took zero seconds since its arranged for u already therefore downgrade in convenience/unnecessary change.
: You can drag the scoreboard if you really care that much. I mean really you should be able to glance at their team and know where they are without adjusting it. I have never adjusted it personally as I'm so used to randomized scoreboard where you can't even move the UI from the older seasons. My only gripe with the new UI is that for some reason {{item:2032}} randomly loses its numbers a few seconds after each use but come back when used again.
> [{quoted}](name=Jefftiffy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp4iPuPE,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-07-29T07:16:53.710+0000) > > You can drag the scoreboard if you really care that much. I mean really you should be able to glance at their team and know where they are without adjusting it. I have never adjusted it personally as I'm so used to randomized scoreboard where you can't even move the UI from the older seasons. > > My only gripe with the new UI is that for some reason {{item:2032}} randomly loses its numbers a few seconds after each use but come back when used again. You totally missed the point.
: Riot PLEASE REVERT SCOREBOARD PATCH!!
Isn't the WHOLE POINT of the scoreboard is to compare scores as conveniently as possible? If i just wanna see my own score, I don't need to open up scoreboard for that. Your teams role positions and enemy's role positions are no longer lined up like it used to automatically, which is an unnecessary downgrade in convenience considering what the purpose of the scoreboard is for...
: First they remove the annoyance of having to shuffle around the scoreboard at the beginning of every game Then they add the annoyance of having to move the entire scoreboard up or down one spot.. Not a good change whatsoever In what world would I, in bot lane (or mid lane), want to be aligned with the top laner? I don't care what the enemy top laner's CS is.
> [{quoted}](name=SugeMinPikk,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=B0lfiUGJ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-29T03:45:15.268+0000) > > First they remove the annoyance of having to shuffle around the scoreboard at the beginning of every game > > Then they add the annoyance of having to move the entire scoreboard up or down one spot.. > > Not a good change whatsoever > > In what world would I, in bot lane (or mid lane), want to be aligned with the top laner? I don't care what the enemy top laner's CS is. I don't knows whos idea at Riot it was to think it was smart to change scoreboard like that. People are already used to it and have developed a natural reaction to comfortably look at right spot instantly. Then they change it, wtf? Isn't the WHOLE POINT of the scoreboard is to compare scores? If i just wanna see my own score, I don't need to open up scoreboard for that. Your teams role positions and enemy's role positions are no longer lined up like it used to automatically, which is a downgrade in convenience considering what the purpose of the scoreboard is for...
KoKoboto (NA)
: I get keys like that as well. Which means a total of around 3 keys a month. S ranks reset every month... meaning you don't need to do that dumb strat in order to open boxes.
> [{quoted}](name=KoKoboto,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1azcrc5E,comment-id=000400010000000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-29T03:43:19.795+0000) > > I get keys like that as well. Which means a total of around 3 keys a month. S ranks reset every month... meaning you don't need to do that dumb strat in order to open boxes. Maybe your account is bugged then, i dunno, me and my friends both get a lot of keys. Way more than just 3 a month, lol. Maybe your account is bugged or your in game attitude is not good enough. We do type a lot of positve words in chat so prehaps that makes a diff. What can I say, the keys in our inventory and his sheer num of chests and skins unlocked speaks for itself. I wouldn't be argueing if I dont get that many keys myself.
Rioter Comments
KoKoboto (NA)
: If they gave you a key every day Riot would go broke or they would need to revamp their chest gain or chest drops.
> [{quoted}](name=KoKoboto,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1azcrc5E,comment-id=0004000100000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-29T03:33:45.669+0000) > > If they gave you a key every day Riot would go broke or they would need to revamp their chest gain or chest drops. Not everyday, but pretty much every other time I log in (which is every 1 to 3 days) I get a key. Same with my other account, same with my friend's. Maybe yours or all mine/friend's account is bugged i dunno. But that's how often the keys come for us. And they won't go broke if they set the chances of old skins that no one buys anymore to high, and newer skins to really low chance.
Rioter Comments
KoKoboto (NA)
: It really doesn't matter because you will only get about 3 keys a month if you play a large amount of games... Meaning in a month, even as a casual player, you won't be having keys to open chests.
> [{quoted}](name=KoKoboto,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1azcrc5E,comment-id=00040001000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-07-29T03:19:13.024+0000) > > It really doesn't matter because you will only get about 3 keys a month if you play a large amount of games... Meaning in a month, even as a casual player, you won't be having keys to open chests. Um I don't think its 3 keys a month cuz every other time I log in i pretty much get a key due to honors, good attitude, etc.
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