: > [{quoted}](name=A Real Troll,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=yMLdNr1p,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-21T22:17:43.272+0000) > > I think you need to watch the whole video (it's about two hours long) to really get a full grasp. Sure for the first 15 minutes it is two boys pissing at each other. After about an hour you see the whole root of the problem. > > While I think NB3 is a jackass as most young men around his age are, he does have the actual winning argument for this issue. That argument is a sound definition on what constitutes griefing. NB3 makes the very valid argument that if Nubrac wants to play the "teemo mid support" strategy, he should give his team a heads up and make sure at least people affected by it are on board with the strategy. NB3 demonstrates this by trapping Nubrac in a logic loop by having Nubrac admit that forcing jungler to take CS and EXP bot lane while running 3 top was not acceptable gameplay. By Nubrac own admission, he chooses to not tell his team mates because he believes that will upset them and ruin the game before it even begins. While Nubrac may be right in some cases, he is ultimately forcing his team to bend to his will and style of gameplay without consent which would likely result in many players not having an enjoyable time playing the game. This is only reinforced by other players in the game repeatedly asking Nubrac to leave mid lane and support bottom. > > Personally, if Nubrac was doing this in my game, to me it would just be a minor annoyance that I would try to work with but perhaps that is just my personality. At a glance, the level at which Nubrac is "trolling" is mild if you can even consider it that. Compared to some of the people I have seen over the years who actually do things like "hard int" or chase others around the jungle, he is not doing anything that I would think is deserving of a 14 day ban and the last tier of punishment before a permanent ban (you are also more scrutinized by the automated system after). Likely even if I reported him for the behavior displayed at my level of gameplay, Riot would not even leave a second thought to actually banning this person (no punishment). Therein lies the problem. Riot played favorites by banning Nubrac on behest of a famous streamer. > > The hard truth is that Riot flubbed this issue repeatedly and probably will continue to flub this issue and more issues similar to this in the future. If Riot had made an official statement to the effect of "Nubrac was banned because It is unacceptable to purposely play against the will of your team or what is generally deemed an acceptable level of teamwork", I think that would give everyone a better understanding of what constitutes griefing and what constitutes allowed gameplay. Instead Riot continues to skirt around direct statements and make vague (sometimes irrelevant) statements about the nature of the game and the community around it. Sorry... The hard truth is that this isn't a pissing contest of "who's more toxic." It's a matter of who *is* toxic. And the answer is: both. Good riddance to the BOTH of them on their 2 week vacations.
> [{quoted}](name=ChaosReyn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=yMLdNr1p,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-06-21T22:24:44.038+0000) > > Sorry... > > The hard truth is that this isn't a pissing contest of "who's more toxic." It's a matter of who *is* toxic. And the answer is: both. > > Good riddance to the BOTH of them on their 2 week vacations. I think you need to read what I typed and not just pick out buzz words then formulate some idea of what I typed. I never stated that this is a pissing contest over who is more toxic.
: Nightblue3 Fallacy Analysis. Nubrac vs Nightblue3
I think you need to watch the whole video (it's about two hours long) to really get a full grasp. Sure for the first 15 minutes it is two boys pissing at each other. After about an hour you see the whole root of the problem. While I think NB3 is a jackass as most young men around his age are, he does have the actual winning argument for this issue. That argument is a sound definition on what constitutes griefing. NB3 makes the very valid argument that if Nubrac wants to play the "teemo mid support" strategy, he should give his team a heads up and make sure at least people affected by it are on board with the strategy. NB3 demonstrates this by trapping Nubrac in a logic loop by having Nubrac admit that forcing jungler to take CS and EXP bot lane while running 3 top was not acceptable gameplay. By Nubrac own admission, he chooses to not tell his team mates because he believes that will upset them and ruin the game before it even begins. While Nubrac may be right in some cases, he is ultimately forcing his team to bend to his will and style of gameplay without consent which would likely result in many players not having an enjoyable time playing the game. This is only reinforced by other players in the game repeatedly asking Nubrac to leave mid lane and support bottom. Personally, if Nubrac was doing this in my game, to me it would just be a minor annoyance that I would try to work with but perhaps that is just my personality. At a glance, the level at which Nubrac is "trolling" is mild if you can even consider it that. Compared to some of the people I have seen over the years who actually do things like "hard int" or chase others around the jungle, he is not doing anything that I would think is deserving of a 14 day ban and the last tier of punishment before a permanent ban (you are also more scrutinized by the automated system after). Likely even if I reported him for the behavior displayed at my level of gameplay, Riot would not even leave a second thought to actually banning this person (no punishment). Therein lies the problem. Riot played favorites by banning Nubrac on behest of a famous streamer. The hard truth is that Riot flubbed this issue repeatedly and probably will continue to flub this issue and more issues similar to this in the future. If Riot had made an official statement to the effect of "Nubrac was banned because It is unacceptable to purposely play against the will of your team or what is generally deemed an acceptable level of teamwork", I think that would give everyone a better understanding of what constitutes griefing and what constitutes allowed gameplay. Instead Riot continues to skirt around direct statements and make vague (sometimes irrelevant) statements about the nature of the game and the community around it.
: Keep on playing, you can’t get banned for it. Nubrac was almost griefing.
> [{quoted}](name=CrazyMonkeyCZ,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iq5QaEan,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-18T20:35:44.113+0000) > > Keep on playing, you can’t get banned for it. > > Nubrac was almost griefing. So he was "Almost griefing" in your opinion. Where do you draw the line then? If I "almost kill someone" should I be punished the same as someone who actually killed someone? Another way to think about that is he was "almost griefing" so by your opinion he was not griefing but rather "almost griefing" so why punish him at all then since he did not break the rules according to you?
: "I did call out Tantram regarding his first statements in here, like me being a "soft-troll" , me "intentionally feeding" and the comment about me being punished 11 times prior to this ban (Something he took out of context brw) . He have not replied to any of this, he has in fact ignored all of it and there is a reason for that. You dont fight a lost battle - Sun Tzu."
> [{quoted}](name=MuteAllFromStart,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=n5hk66oG,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-18T11:49:27.077+0000) > > "I did call out Tantram regarding his first statements in here, like me being a "soft-troll" , me "intentionally feeding" and the comment about me being punished 11 times prior to this ban (Something he took out of context brw) . He have not replied to any of this, he has in fact ignored all of it and there is a reason for that. You dont fight a lost battle - Sun Tzu." You are fighting a losing battle. These people take whatever Riot says as the word of God and refuse to scrutinize it or fact check it at all. Anything you say is dog shit and will be stepped on to no end.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: Meta doesn't stand for most effective tactics available… it's not even an acronym to begin with. It simply refers to the metagame, neutrally, without any implication of how effective it is. The meta is simply the way people play. Nothing more, nothing less. And while that will typically converge to **an** effective strategy, it's really more about stability across all the possible scenarios than being the most effective in all possible scenarios. I know you're taking a stand for the off-meta, so most of that doesn't actually contradict what you are saying, but backronyms being perpetuated as if they are definitions is one of my pet peeves. I mean... come on... it's not even correct to call it a tactic. It's a strategy.
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rrnxkhXw,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-06-18T08:29:40.388+0000) > > Meta doesn't stand for most effective tactics available… it's not even an acronym to begin with. > It simply refers to the metagame, neutrally, without any implication of how effective it is. > > The meta is simply the way people play. Nothing more, nothing less. And while that will typically converge to **an** effective strategy, it's really more about stability across all the possible scenarios than being the most effective in all possible scenarios. > > I know you're taking a stand for the off-meta, so most of that doesn't actually contradict what you are saying, but backronyms being perpetuated as if they are definitions is one of my pet peeves. > I mean... come on... it's not even correct to call it a tactic. It's a strategy. I think you need to look up the definition of tactics.
: Reddit is where free speech goes to die. Fuck that place
> [{quoted}](name=PrismalDawn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=iJ6s1uQL,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-18T07:14:12.628+0000) > > Reddit is where free speech goes to die. > Fuck that place on LOL reddit anyway. You say anything they do not like, even when it is not against the rules, consider it removed.
: Only meta that's enforced is support goes bot lane
> [{quoted}](name=R107 Games,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rrnxkhXw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-18T06:13:06.152+0000) > > Only meta that's enforced is support goes bot lane I usually don't agree with you. This time, I do.
: > [{quoted}](name=A Real Troll,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rrnxkhXw,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-06-18T06:26:33.027+0000) > > Not communicating is against the rules? Doing what you want is against the rules? Riot repeatedly states that as long as you are trying to win, it is fine. The player is clearly trying to win. Let me use same argument as NB3 did in his [talk with Nubrac](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/440105191)(staring around 1:38:00) If I'm jngler, I'll farm all my jng, come to someones lane and take all farm without laners consent? I'm playing for win, bcs I think that gold on me is more useful, it's op strat. Is this ok? By rules it kinda is, but let's be honest, it should be bannable 100%. Nubrac ignored begging of his midlaner and adc and did his stupid strategy without any communication at all, Riot stated that you likely can't get banned for offmeta, but they havn't said that you can do it against every ones will tho. That's rightfull reason why Nubrac was banned and he will likely stay. NB3 delivered it kinda unprofessionally, but overall, he did good thing. Thank you NB3.
> [{quoted}](name=CrazyMonkeyCZ,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rrnxkhXw,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-06-18T06:35:20.895+0000) > > Let me use same argument as NB3 did in his [talk with Nubrac](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/440105191)(staring around 1:38:00) > > If I'm jngler, I'll farm all my jng, come to someones lane and take all farm without laners consent? I'm playing for win, bcs I think that gold on me is more useful, it's op strat. Is this ok? By rules it kinda is, but let's be honest, it should be bannable 100%. Nubrac ignored begging of his midlaner and adc and did his stupid strategy without any communication at all, Riot stated that you likely can't get banned for offmeta, but they havn't said that you can do it against every ones will tho. That's rightfull reason why Nubrac was banned and he will likely stay. > > NB3 delivered it kinda unprofessionally, but overall, he did good thing. > > Thank you NB3. Ok. But if this player did this in Normals and people cried, nothing would happen. It is literally because it is a "famous streamer" who knew someone inside riot that this player got banned. Riot has stated many times that there is no difference between normal and ranked. Clearly there must be.
: > [{quoted}](name=A Real Troll,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rrnxkhXw,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-06-18T06:26:33.027+0000) > > Not communicating is against the rules? Doing what you want is against the rules? Riot repeatedly states that as long as you are trying to win, it is fine. The player is clearly trying to win. even if your team disagrees with you it shouldnt mean your team should force you to play a champ your less familiar with. NOW if you pick said champ they MAGICALLY blame you for feeding for no reason at all i mean its their fault/(kinda riots) for forcing you to pick a less efficent champ than your main off meta support. i mean if they wanna ban support teemo or support singed why not put a massive X on champions outside of meta for support only if they wanna play meta-nazis policing.
> [{quoted}](name=Corrector1,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rrnxkhXw,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-06-18T06:32:06.203+0000) > > even if your team disagrees with you it shouldnt mean your team should force you to play a champ your less familiar with. NOW if you pick said champ they MAGICALLY blame you for feeding for no reason at all i mean its their fault/(kinda riots) for forcing you to pick a less efficent champ than your main off meta support. i mean if they wanna ban support teemo or support singed why not put a massive X on champions outside of meta for support only if they wanna play meta-nazis policing. This whole thing reminds me of double jungle singed from season 4.
JackMcCarry (EUNE)
: Going to your designated lane isnt meta. Playing your role isnt meta. If your toplaner decided to go 2nd mid without asking and ignoring your midlaner, would you be okay with it because that player said "it's just off meta bro"?
> [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rrnxkhXw,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-18T06:14:28.992+0000) > > Going to your designated lane isnt meta. > Playing your role isnt meta. > > If your toplaner decided to go 2nd mid without asking and ignoring your midlaner, would you be okay with it because that player said "it's just off meta bro"? The concept of a designated lane location is based on a most effective tactics available or META strategy. Yes I would be okay with it as long as the player was trying to win and not just inting my lane.
: Seems almost like NB3 banned griefer that no one wanted in their games. Unfortnetely, they didn't banned him bcs "offmeta" but bcs he did 0 communication and after asked and begged to stop by midlaner and adc, he didn't, basically griefing. Thank you NB3.
> [{quoted}](name=CrazyMonkeyCZ,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rrnxkhXw,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-18T06:13:21.928+0000) > > Seems almost like NB3 banned griefer that no one wanted in their games. > > Unfortnetely, they didn't banned him bcs "offmeta" but bcs he did 0 communication and after asked and begged to stop by midlaner and adc, he didn't, basically griefing. > > Thank you NB3. Not communicating is against the rules? Doing what you want is against the rules? Riot repeatedly states that as long as you are trying to win, it is fine. The player is clearly trying to win.
Rioter Comments
Ómàr (NA)
: Banned for 14 Days- For what?
usul1202 (NA)
: Well, zero tolerence bot is different from the IFS, which analyzes full chat logs. You can see tons of punishments from that all over the boards. Troll detection could for sure be better, but that's also approaching a line of "punish more trolls, but also get more false positives", which is a line riot doesn't like to toe. (for better or worse) Support tickets aren't bad for reporting, although riot will never disclose another accounts details such as punishments.
> [{quoted}](name=usul1202,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=s5d2VwfI,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-21T18:12:16.614+0000) > > Well, zero tolerence bot is different from the IFS, which analyzes full chat logs. You can see tons of punishments from that all over the boards. Troll detection could for sure be better, but that's also approaching a line of "punish more trolls, but also get more false positives", which is a line riot doesn't like to toe. (for better or worse) > > Support tickets aren't bad for reporting, although riot will never disclose another accounts details such as punishments. Riot does not have to disclose anything. We can all see the result not occurring on op.gg. Intentional feeding is a mandatory 14 day ban. Them playing days, weeks, later is clear that nothing happened.
: My wonderful game back into ranked
You are correct. Riot will do nothing about this. You will also get plenty of people who will claim that "you were trolling because you 'banned his champ'". This is simply not true. You just banned a champ that you did not want to play with or against which is why the ban phase is there. The way this person reacted is the problem and I have had similar reactions and worse in recent history. It used to be a consistent thing with Yasuo players but it is a less common occurrence now with them and a way more common occurrence with "Yuumi mains". Not really sure how you can be a main on a fresh champion but that is for another discussion. To give you an example, I had a player freak out because someone banned yuumi so they followed that person around the jungle, stole camps with smite, intentionally fed a bit, left the game after 3 mins stating that "they wanted to hold us hostage", came back and made us wait until 20 to surrender. Opened a ticket with Riot, no ban. You basically have to hope that these players continually int without really trying to damage the opponent and get way behind in levels for the bot to do something. My recommendation is encouraging this behavior by saying things like "just ignore them and try to win". They want attention so this will only escalate their attention seeking behaviors.
usul1202 (NA)
: I have not noticed it as such, although I believe that riot does escalate death encouragement through tickets. Zero tolerence is literally a word-finder bot. You say the word (twice), you get a ban. Harder to do on phrases without with missing things from phrasing or hitting innocent people.
> [{quoted}](name=usul1202,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=s5d2VwfI,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-05-21T17:43:31.967+0000) > > I have not noticed it as such, although I believe that riot does escalate death encouragement through tickets. Zero tolerence is literally a word-finder bot. You say the word (twice), you get a ban. Harder to do on phrases without with missing things from phrasing or hitting innocent people. This is pretty much the issue. If the poorly programmed bots do not issue a punishment, riot won't lift a finger in most cases to look into the problem. Your best case scenario to receive help is to bait the person into using ZT (minimal tolerance words) multiple times so that the bot does something. Likewise when a person is trolling a game by intentionally feeding, they have to do it many times in a row and be several levels behind etc for the bot to notice anything. Try encouraging these people to continue their poor behavior by saying things like "please just ignore this player and lets try to win" it will piss them off and make the bot actually do something. Riot sure as hell won't. Too busy watching dumb and dumber on netflix.
: > Your individual performance is not important. Games are not won by kills, deaths, assists, CS, or neutral objectives. They are won, quite simply, by the first team to kill the enemy nexus. While I understand how games are won, I disagree that an individual's performance is not important. If I join a game and when it ends after 20 minutes, my score is 2-28-3 with 20 cs, would you truly defend my individual performance as not important to the overall outcome of the match? I suspect you would be in the minority here. I chose an extreme example, but to say "your performance is not important" is counter to competitive gaming. One person can make a big difference. Ask any smurf. > None of your games were over within 10 minutes. In fact, your shortest loss was 19 minutes long - a whole 9 minutes where you have "given up". I get that you may feel like the team is losing. But you have not lost until your nexus falls. If you, however, decide to have a defeatist or "go next" attitude about it, you're cementing a loss that **is not certain**. Again, it's the first nexus to fall. I guarantee you someone on your team could've been splitting while you guys defended. Great point, but you misquoted me. I didn't say the game was over within 10 minutes, I said "just about" over, where the gold/xp earned has given the enemy team an overwhelming advantage. I also never indicated that I give up even during a match that is facing defeat. You even used quotations as if quoting me, but I never said that. A player can recognize that the game is tilting toward the favor of the enemy team, mentally calculate a win is unlikely, and still try to win. > If you're playing "above average" in a loss in KDA/etc, why? If all you care about is being the best on your team, then you're not going to win games - because you're focusing on the egocentric idea of "well I played the best so this loss isn't my fault". Again, you don't seem to have read my post even though you picked out several quotes. In fact, I even explicitly said "not just talking KDA." > If your teammates were dying, why weren't you. I guess I'd ask you for some advice here. Scenario: I'm playing as Ashe in bot lane. It's 8 minutes into the match, my top laner has died 6 times. Are you suggesting I should be dying at the same pace he is? Obviously not. Perhaps you're suggesting I abandon my lane and rotate top to help him before I even have 1 item? In my experience, that top laner will not appreciate me in his lane farming or soaking up experience. My general advice is to win my lane, hoping to win as strongly as my teammate is losing, so that we have a chance in the midgame. But you are asking why I'm not also dying, as if I'm AFK in spawn trying to protect my KDA, which is of course not the case. What would you do as Ashe this match? > If you notice professional players, they actually spend very little time in their respective lanes compared to what most people in lower leagues do which is just camp out in their lane, then scream when they keep dying and falling behind (or their team does). If your team is falling behind, you're falling behind, thus your strategy isn't working and you should change it. I decided to pull up a recent MSI game at random to check your claim that pro players spend very little time in their respective lanes. Before the 10 minute mark, there were two (2) instances of someone leaving his lane to help another lane. Once where a mid laner walked bot to gank, and once where both top laners TP'd bot for a fight. That's roughly consistent with my experience in Silver rank, so you may want to check your facts on this claim.
> [{quoted}](name=5 Dollar Holler,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=4WqE2h1R,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-05-21T14:33:28.689+0000) > > While I understand how games are won, I disagree that an individual's performance is not important. If I join a game and when it ends after 20 minutes, my score is 2-28-3 with 20 cs, would you truly defend my individual performance as not important to the overall outcome of the match? I suspect you would be in the minority here. I chose an extreme example, but to say "your performance is not important" is counter to competitive gaming. One person can make a big difference. Ask any smurf. > > Great point, but you misquoted me. I didn't say the game was over within 10 minutes, I said "just about" over, where the gold/xp earned has given the enemy team an overwhelming advantage. I also never indicated that I give up even during a match that is facing defeat. You even used quotations as if quoting me, but I never said that. A player can recognize that the game is tilting toward the favor of the enemy team, mentally calculate a win is unlikely, and still try to win. > > Again, you don't seem to have read my post even though you picked out several quotes. In fact, I even explicitly said "not just talking KDA." > > I guess I'd ask you for some advice here. Scenario: I'm playing as Ashe in bot lane. It's 8 minutes into the match, my top laner has died 6 times. Are you suggesting I should be dying at the same pace he is? Obviously not. Perhaps you're suggesting I abandon my lane and rotate top to help him before I even have 1 item? In my experience, that top laner will not appreciate me in his lane farming or soaking up experience. My general advice is to win my lane, hoping to win as strongly as my teammate is losing, so that we have a chance in the midgame. But you are asking why I'm not also dying, as if I'm AFK in spawn trying to protect my KDA, which is of course not the case. What would you do as Ashe this match? > > I decided to pull up a recent MSI game at random to check your claim that pro players spend very little time in their respective lanes. Before the 10 minute mark, there were two (2) instances of someone leaving his lane to help another lane. Once where a mid laner walked bot to gank, and once where both top laners TP'd bot for a fight. That's roughly consistent with my experience in Silver rank, so you may want to check your facts on this claim. You have to understand that specialists and heralds have an agenda to push. They want people to view the game in the most positive light and ignore reality so that the game continues to thrive.
rujitra (NA)
: Your individual performance is not important. Games are not won by kills, deaths, assists, CS, or neutral objectives. They are won, quite simply, by the first team to kill the enemy nexus. >As you can see, most games were just about over within 10 minutes, mostly when one of my lanes fed. None of your games were over within 10 minutes. In fact, your shortest loss was 19 minutes long - a whole 9 minutes where you have "given up". I get that you may feel like the team is losing. But you have not lost until your nexus falls. If you, however, decide to have a defeatist or "go next" attitude about it, you're cementing a loss that **is not certain**. Again, it's the first nexus to fall. I guarantee you someone on your team could've been splitting while you guys defended. >At this rank, one fed carry is all it takes since there's no VOIP or any real community to coordinate strategy with. Chat is perfectly useful for coordination. Furthermore, please keep in mind that even with VOIP, others aren't going to listen to what you say. Sometimes you have to "bite the bullet" and just do what they want you to, in the hopes that they'll play better when you cooperate with them. >My personal performance generally greatly exceeded my team average - not just talking KDA, but general playing. No it didn't. Your team average was one nexus fallen before the enemy team. That is all that matters for a loss. And all of you had the same result. While you may have been more "fed", that just puts you in a position to be the one on your team to help. If your teammates were dying, **why weren't you**. If you're playing "above average" in a loss in KDA/etc, why? If all you care about is being the best on your team, then you're not going to win games - because you're focusing on the egocentric idea of "well I played the best so this loss isn't my fault". The majority of players with such an attitude actually screw over their teams because they play too safe, they refuse to defend objectives or help because they're afraid of dying. >But, it's a team game, and I can win my lane but if the others lose, I lose the LP too. Because you lost the game. >In Match #3, I advised Yasuo to hug tower. He said "I'd rather die than not even try to farm." And that's his right. You are not a coach. You don't necessarily have the right ideas all the time. His opinion was that he was behind in farm and needed to farm. At this point you can either advise him on proper farming under tower (either 2T+1AA or 1AA+1T+1AA depending on minion type and stage of game), or you can attempt to assist him in killing the laner/jungler so he is able to return to farming without worrying about dying. If you instead just let him suffer, when it was clear he was not going to stop farming, when there's likely *something* you could've done to help, that's on you. Again, it doesn't matter your KDA. So what if you go die in his lane - but he gets a kill and 20 more CS off of it? Sure, you may fall a bit behind. But the team now has two people that are ahead instead of just you. >I'm only 1 of 4 people, after all, and while I can advise of strats, I can't make them follow it. Right, and I'm sure they feel the same way about you. You may advise him "sit under tower". He may be thinking "why the hell isn't he coming up to help me, these are easy kills". Even as support or ADC, there are games in which it makes sense to go top-side for a wave or two to assist your laner. If you notice professional players, they actually spend very little time in their respective lanes compared to what most people in lower leagues do which is just camp out in their lane, then scream when they keep dying and falling behind (or their team does). If your team is falling behind, you're falling behind, thus your strategy isn't working and you should change it.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=4WqE2h1R,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-21T03:23:03.339+0000) > > And that's his right. You are not a coach. You don't necessarily have the right ideas all the time. His opinion was that he was behind in farm and needed to farm. At this point you can either advise him on proper farming under tower (either 2T+1AA or 1AA+1T+1AA depending on minion type and stage of game), or you can attempt to assist him in killing the laner/jungler so he is able to return to farming without worrying about dying. If you instead just let him suffer, when it was clear he was not going to stop farming, when there's likely *something* you could've done to help, that's on you. Again, it doesn't matter your KDA. So what if you go die in his lane - but he gets a kill and 20 more CS off of it? Sure, you may fall a bit behind. But the team now has two people that are ahead instead of just you. > You're not a coach but you're a coach if you want to be a coach that is ok just don't give people advice that they don't like. Be the coach everyone should be that resonates with that persons echo chamber. See how that doesn't make sense? > >None of your games were over within 10 minutes. In fact, your shortest loss was 19 minutes long - a whole 9 minutes where you have "given up". I get that you may feel like the team is losing. But you have not lost until your nexus falls. If you, however, decide to have a defeatist or "go next" attitude about it, you're cementing a loss that is not certain. Again, it's the first nexus to fall. I guarantee you someone on your team could've been splitting while you guys defended. > The part you are choosing to ignore is that his game is effectively over at 10 mins. That extra 9 minutes of suffering is just something that comes along with the loss. It's like trying to climb a mountain when you can barely reach the second floor of your studio apartment.
usul1202 (NA)
: Should the zero tolerence policy be renamed?
This is true. Reported plenty of people both ingame and with useless manual tickets just to watch nothing happen when they use 1 instance of ZT.
Huiwee (NA)
: yi did not deserve the buffs he got and hes now broken
I have found it is best to wait until yi throws in Q before trying to CC him.
Rioter Comments
: That's only for gameplay related issues. They care about words a lot!
> [{quoted}](name=Ph03n1xb1rd,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WUFYWu8i,comment-id=0002000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-13T12:40:55.313+0000) > > That's only for gameplay related issues. They care about words a lot! No, I have reported people masking hatespeech before. The N Word to be exact. No ban.
Ooduwa (NA)
: Thanks, I'll go ahead and submit a ticket.
> [{quoted}](name=Ooduwa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WUFYWu8i,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-05-12T20:11:20.967+0000) > > Thanks, I'll go ahead and submit a ticket. good luck. In my experience, riot just tells you they will look into it and then never does anything.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: Advice for reporting players - proven method.
Why don't you add the 10 plus people I have manually reported for clear cases of griefing such as mid lane following jungle to steal buffs and negative speech from minute 0. They are still playing unbanned because all Riot support does is provide lip service.
Kisumi (EUW)
: 14 days ban
You should make sure they put your honor level back. I had a similar thing happen to me and they neglected to restore my honor until I contacted them again.
: How is this not punishable?
Don't hold your breath on that ticket... I am sure they will give you some nice encouraging words and then do nothing.
EpicOrg (NA)
: \o/ Reporting players via support tickets really works! \o/ Praise the player support team!
: And if guy 1 isn't listening to that and theater staff isn't doing anything about guy 1 not listening, then they have no right to get upset if guy 2 reciprocates guy 1's bad behavior by likewise showing some bad behavior. Especially if it's in the interest of ending guy 1's behavior rather than just to be a d*@k. If I go physically abuse someone as long as I'm silent about it, then it's ok? Cuz that's what you've essentially told me. The guy who says something is doing wrong and should be punished (guy 2), but the guy doing something wrong (guy 1) and being quieter about it (not even silent, just not saying anything "explicit") is in the right and we must protect him from guy 2. Lol, that makes sooo much sense... said ~~idiots ~~low iq people everywhere. To use another example with your "logic"... It's apparently ok then for me to tell someone to suck my popsicle, but if I say d*@k instead then it somehow becomes not ok. Pretty sure either way it's not appropriate. But ok doorknob. Popsicle is fine and physical abuse is ok as long as I don't say anything explicit when I do that. I'm sure women would love that one. Ma'am, did he say anything to you while he was... doing things? No, ok sorry then but he did nothing wrong. In fact, because you swore at him, he's allowed to press charges against you. Yes... that would make SOOOOO much sense (extreme sarcasm). Cuz... boards logic. Jolly ranchers, do you even think?... No. No you don't.{{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
> [{quoted}](name=woodvsmurph,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=yETAzw9Y,comment-id=000400000001,timestamp=2019-04-29T19:23:21.450+0000) > > And if guy 1 isn't listening to that and theater staff isn't doing anything about guy 1 not listening, then they have no right to get upset if guy 2 reciprocates guy 1's bad behavior by likewise showing some bad behavior. Especially if it's in the interest of ending guy 1's behavior rather than just to be a d*@k. > Who has "no right" to get upset about guy 2? Both guy 1 and 2 are disturbing the peace and the movie. If guy 2 has a problem with the actions of the movie theater or lack thereof, that is a separate issue to be taken up with them in a peaceful manner. If the theater does not do anything about your grievance, they have at most lost one customer. If you start ruining the movie for the whole theater by causing a huge scene with the annoying dude, they have lost a theater full of customers. That is on them as a business. > If I go physically abuse someone as long as I'm silent about it, then it's ok? Cuz that's what you've essentially told me. The guy who says something is doing wrong and should be punished (guy 2), but the guy doing something wrong (guy 1) and being quieter about it (not even silent, just not saying anything "explicit") is in the right and we must protect him from guy 2. Lol, that makes sooo much sense... said ~~idiots ~~low iq people everywhere. > Assaulting someone is crime. Not sure when assaulting someone was possible on league and over the internet but if I am out of touch and it is, then riot should probably inform the authorities about all instances of assault. It's not about guy 2 saying something, it's about what he said. Guy 1's bad behavior is step 1 of the ladder on league of legends (The annoying dude at the movie theater you should POLITELY ask to quiet down and then report to theater if the problem remains). You have to remember we are not vigilante justice; not judge jury and executioner. > To use another example with your "logic"... > It's apparently ok then for me to tell someone to suck my popsicle, but if I say d*@k instead then it somehow becomes not ok. > It's all relative to your audience and how they judge it. I personally would think telling someone to suck your Popsicle would be funny if it ended there. Using the D word would be insulting and annoying to myself and other people just trying to watch a movie especially because it is likely to just escalate the argument. In the past I have told a rather annoying person to "go be old somewhere" and everyone thought that was funny and quickly made the annoying person stop being annoying. > Pretty sure either way it's not appropriate. But ok doorknob. Popsicle is fine and physical abuse is ok as long as I don't say anything explicit when I do that. I'm sure women would love that one. Ma'am, did he say anything to you while he was... doing things? No, ok sorry then but he did nothing wrong. In fact, because you swore at him, he's allowed to press charges against you. Yes... that would make SOOOOO much sense (extreme sarcasm). > Cuz... boards logic. Jolly ranchers, do you even think?... No. No you don't.{{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}} I am not sure why I bothered responding to your last few statements as it sounds like they are falling on deaf ears but I hope they help someone else in the future who might read this. Who knows maybe it will even sway you. Take care and stay safe.
Keyru (NA)
: Boards Moderation Discord Verification
T2K Baka (NA)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=T2K Baka,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OiVEpPVo,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-21T06:52:20.576+0000) > > This game is full of softies. Honestly its dumb how alot of people get banned for responding to toxic people who started it first. > > > Here is a similar thing although its extreme: > > someone is assaulting you and ur almost dead, bleeding. You punch them and somehow push them back until police arrive. You somehow survive and then YOU go to jail. Thats legit the same concept with league players defending themselves against toxic players, you fight back and then get punished. I'm not gonna let someone push me around then report them hoping for some sort of punishment to arrive. Most of the time, the toxic players ends up free to be toxic to others. > > i also wanna see this downvoted If you and a dude were at a fast food joint just screaming at each other over some non-sense like how much a hamburger should cost (the equivalent of league flamers) they might not even send you to prison, but rather for a psych evaluation. Public disturbance is the issue you would be arrested for. So should Riot setup a jail then and treat you like "real life"? A psych ward for all of you future head cases?
AORVAL (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=A Real Troll,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7hY7mjg5,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2019-04-21T06:56:46.119+0000) > > what is it these people don't seem to get? Just because there is a mute function, it should not be the expectation that people should ever want or have to use it. The expectation is that it is a team game and I want to work and collaborate with my team. Not have an open channel for flaming that I may choose to close at any time. Literally every high elo player will tell you the same thing, Im saying masters-challenger players. Chat is the most useless thing in this game, and holds you back if you dont hide it. The only time people ever use chat is to question why you didnt make a play by doing something, or just blatantly flaming you. And the time you spend typing or reading chat, could be used to look at map. So if anything having chat for a team work collaboration never works, and Ive had many challenger elo players tell me pretty much the same thing in different summaries.
> [{quoted}](name=AORVAL,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7hY7mjg5,comment-id=0003000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-21T07:03:06.585+0000) > > Literally every high elo player will tell you the same thing, Im saying masters-challenger players. Chat is the most useless thing in this game, and holds you back if you dont hide it. The only time people ever use chat is to question why you didnt make a play by doing something, or just blatantly flaming you. And the time you spend typing or reading chat, could be used to look at map. So if anything having chat for a team work collaboration never works, and Ive had many challenger elo players tell me pretty much the same thing in different summaries. That is because the culture of league breeds toxicity. Riot is trying to change that. I use chat to help my team all the time.
AORVAL (NA)
: >You lost all right to complain about Riot being overly strict or catering to "SJWs" when you said: I never said what I said isnt toxic. If you bothered reading the post or comprehending it for that matter, youd see that Im complaining about how #1. One account gets every account banned. #2. People who int/troll dont get punished as hard as a person saying a naughty word, which creates an even more toxic environment. #3. The "SJW" part was to fill out that Riot bans you because someone gets triggered from your saying when theres a mute button implemented to stop those from seeing the offensive chat. That was literally one line and thats all you took from the post is that I called Riot SJW lol. >If I can be super unprofessional and blunt, you should stop playing entirely, at the very least until you change your attitude. The fact that you're trying to justify your racism as Riot being a part of "this SJW meta type dogshit" is really sad, dude. Again the only thing you takeaway from this is that I called Riot a SJW, nice one. And nah dont worry, I got a new account and this time im not even gonna care about toxicity. Riot bans all my accounts for one game? Then I guess ill just show them what toxic really is like in high elo when I get there.
> [{quoted}](name=AORVAL,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7hY7mjg5,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-04-21T06:51:41.626+0000) > > I never said what I said isnt toxic. If you bothered reading the post or comprehending it for that matter, youd see that Im complaining about how > > #2. People who int/troll dont get punished as hard as a person saying a naughty word, which creates an even more toxic environment. > #3. The "SJW" part was to fill out that Riot bans you because someone gets triggered from your saying when theres a mute button implemented to stop those from seeing the offensive chat. That was literally one line and thats all you took from the post is that I called Riot SJW lol. > > Again the only thing you takeaway from this is that I called Riot a SJW, nice one. And nah dont worry, I got a new account and this time im not even gonna care about toxicity. Riot bans all my accounts for one game? Then I guess ill just show them what toxic really is like in high elo when I get there. what is it these people don't seem to get? Just because there is a mute function, it should not be the expectation that people should ever want or have to use it. The expectation is that it is a team game and I want to work and collaborate with my team. Not have an open channel for flaming that I may choose to close at any time.
: > [{quoted}](name=mylittlep0wnee,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=hWp8QwbW,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-04-20T05:54:37.418+0000) > > He wasn't using the Nword. He was using Ni to abbreviate the N word. And also using "black slave" , clearly none of these words are bad taken at face value, hence why they wont get caught . General hatespeech is zero tolerance, i wonder if the IFS can catch that
> [{quoted}](name=R107 Games,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=hWp8QwbW,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-04-20T05:57:51.570+0000) > > General hatespeech is zero tolerance, i wonder if the IFS can catch that I sure hope so, cause support wont do shit
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=ANGRY KOREA MAN,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=F7YTsjE0,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-19T23:12:48.687+0000) > > You are also dumb. toxic
: I will help you brother. Jungler doesn't have to do anything. Just like any other role. They only thing you absolutely must do, is win the game. Every game there is a better strategy to go with. One game you may want to camp one single lane without even farming your jungle, in other game you will chose to farm and not gank at all, in third game you want to gather up with your team early on and push forcing enemy team to play buy your rules. Being a jungler doesn't mean that you have to do something special. Lastly, don't pay attention to assholes, you need to have a good time in this game, regardless of victory or loss (I can not follow this advice ((= ) Riot intentionally makes this game more toxic. Gaming Corporations these days are all the same.
> [{quoted}](name=GoldsmithSmarty,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0poEaKEF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-19T20:51:14.708+0000) > > I will help you brother. > > Jungler doesn't have to do anything. Just like any other role. They only thing you absolutely must do, is win the game. > > Every game there is a better strategy to go with. One game you may want to camp one single lane without even farming your jungle, in other game you will chose to farm and not gank at all, in third game you want to gather up with your team early on and push forcing enemy team to play buy your rules. Being a jungler doesn't mean that you have to do something special. > > Lastly, don't pay attention to assholes, you need to have a good time in this game, regardless of victory or loss (I can not follow this advice ((= ) > Riot intentionally makes this game more toxic. Gaming Corporations these days are all the same. The emotes lmao so much toxicity added.
Akrid415 (NA)
: Corki Mid
I have been playing a lot of corki lately. Champ is just good right now in general. Biggest weakness I have found is farming consistency. He has a slow AA that you can exploit by pressuring him when he wants to take a cannon or something. You probably won't kill him on an all in because of the gap close but you can definitely harass him out of lane or put him on the defensive. He has no real range until 6 either, so proper wave management opens up gank opportunities. Worst matchups so far have been Zed and Ezreal. Hope that helps.
DeusVult (NA)
: You should make similar changes to Tryndamere. When tryn ults, he gains the 50/75/100 fury as he currently does. During his ult, he loses 20 fury per second. Takedowns grant 100 fury. While he has more than 10 fury, Tryndamere cannot die. Rewards Tryn for engaging and fighting while ulting, can prolong his ult for longer than current if engaging, punishes tryn for using his ult solely to gain 5 seconds to run away. (he still gets ~2 seconds of not dying at rank 1, 5 seconds at rank 3)
> [{quoted}](name=DeusVult,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ERjM9jW5,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-19T15:48:01.436+0000) > > You should make similar changes to Tryndamere. > > When tryn ults, he gains the 50/75/100 fury as he currently does. > > During his ult, he loses 20 fury per second. Takedowns grant 100 fury. While he has more than 10 fury, Tryndamere cannot die. Rewards Tryn for engaging and fighting while ulting, can prolong his ult for longer than current if engaging, punishes tryn for using his ult solely to gain 5 seconds to run away. (he still gets ~2 seconds of not dying at rank 1, 5 seconds at rank 3) While I don't totally agree with your numbers, this seems like a better idea than press r to win or run away.
: The Rakan changes are pretty nice
Seems like a shoehorn fix. Better would just be making it a channel that he gets a leap with after channeling. That would be more on par with traditional game mechanics and not a one-off shoehorn jank fix.
: I've been warching your posts and you defend Rito in every of them. How much do they pay?
> [{quoted}](name=MysticShaker,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XqRJA00E,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-04-19T13:00:17.679+0000) > > I've been warching your posts and you defend Rito in every of them. How much do they pay? lmao.. how exactly do I defend riot with every post? Most times I call them out for ineptitude. While the Renekton buff was not entirely necessary, it's not like he is un-counterable if you play your cards right.
: Ren imo pales to what Riven and Jax can do, even if he matches them item to item, rune to rune.
> [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XqRJA00E,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-04-18T20:07:18.321+0000) > > Ren imo pales to what Riven and Jax can do, even if he matches them item to item, rune to rune. This. You play smart against the croc, he gets behind, there is nothing he can do. Riven can make amazing comebacks and has no indicator of when she is weak.
: Janna here with your future Champion Selection forecast!
: Why in the world would you BUFF RENEKTON??
Apparently you have been playing for 8 years but don't know how to counterplay. Just be aware of creep positions when you want to trade with him and his rage bar. Rage bar down? trade all day? creeps in a bad spot for him to double dash and get away? Trade all day.
zPOOPz (NA)
: I'm not so sure "not exist" is on the same level as "kys". If that's the only thing they said that game, Rito has leniency for one or two mildly negative things that are not ZT.
> [{quoted}](name=zPOOPz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9YBQiGEG,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-18T04:52:14.645+0000) > > I'm not so sure "not exist" is on the same level as "kys". If that's the only thing they said that game, Rito has leniency for one or two mildly negative things that are not ZT. They have a leniency for ZT as well. Just ask all the people I have reported both in game and in a support ticket who are still playing days later.
: Mid-silver matchmaking
I enjoy this same nonsense everytime I play. Silver 4 is a breeze, Silver 3 is a brick wall because of team mates that are put there when unranked or recently ranked but put into there by a poor placement system. The problem is, once you are put into bronze league, "re-calibration" next season is really just 10 punishment games where you can't place higher than the previous season no matter how well you do. You can only place lower if you mess up or get crap team mates.
Azeranth (NA)
: When will Conqueror Officially Be A Failure?
I wish I could up vote this 100 times
Haburru (NA)
: Kayle's changes in 9.8
i guess this seems better than admitting they made a broken champion design???
: That's just the problem buddy. You're throwing out the guy that keeps talking on his phone during the movie or who makes lewd remarks at others in the theater just fine. You SHOULD be doing that and you do which is cool. Nobody has a problem with this. But the guy who gets kicked from the theater for telling someone else to F off... while he might agree that he should get kicked for that, he's said that to somebody else for a reason. Because the other guy made more subtle references to the women in the group that he went to the movie with and because he kept kicking the back of their seat the whole film and throwing popcorn down the guy's hoodie. When that guy noticed a theater employee walking through during the film and asked if the employee if he could do something about the obnoxious person throwing popcorn, kicking seats, and making more subtle references at women... the employee excused all the behavior. "Oh, he can't help kicking the seat... he's probably just excited." "He didn't mean anything by what he said about your friends... it could have been perfectly innocent, and I doubt it was 20 references like you claim." "Well everyone can drop popcorn sometimes, and for all you know I've already talked to him about taking smaller handfuls." Individually, or done once by mistake it might be just that. A guy accidentally kicking a seat during a moment of excitement. A guy grabbing too much popcorn and spilling some. A guy making an innocent comment. Done repetitively and without any sign of remorse for potential "misunderstanding", it isn't a mistake. It is a guy intentionally being an ass to another guy. And if the movie theater doesn't like that second guy telling the first one to "F off", then they'd do well to listen when that guy FIRST TRIED to raise a complaint to the movie theater employee and let them handle the situation properly. But the movie theater didn't do anything about that person. They made excuses for him and made the second guy sound like a jerk. Then it is no wonder that second guy - also just TRYING TO HAVE SOME FUN - takes matters into his own hands and tries to resolve the problem by making his displeasure more blatantly known in the hopes the first guy takes the hint and leaves him in peace. But guy 1 never gets punished. Neither in the theater, nor in league. Guy 2 knows that telling guy 1 to "F off" isn't appropriate behavior for the theater or league, but what's he supposed to do? The theater isn't protecting HIS RIGHT to have some fun. League isn't protecting his right. What makes him less deserving than the first guy? Why does his misbehavior get punished when he tried to resolve the situation respectfully multiple times while the first guy has been constantly disrespectful and non-apologetic from the start yet has nothing done to stop his behavior? This is where people have a problem. This is why I quit playing league despite it being my favorite game. Because I've grown sick of you guys defending guy 1 while crucifying guy 2 (me). Guy 1 has a right to have a fun game without me cursing at him? Great, I agree. But I also have a right to enjoy a game without guy 1 low-key harassing and flaming me all game and going out of his way to ruin the game so that I can't even mind my own business and have fun too. If I'm minding my own business and trying to just enjoy the game only for guy 1 to come and do everything in his power to ruin it for me, being confrontational towards me, and trying to get my teammates to join him in harassing me... I think I have a right to be defended too. I have a right for you to give him the axe if he won't fix his poor behavior. But like mr. spill the popcorn, harass women in the theaters, and kick the back of your seat repetitively... guy 1 in league gets a free pass. His behavior is excused by you rather than examined and punished. Even if guy 2 never tells guy 1 to "F off", guy 1 doesn't have anything done to him to reform his behavior. So he goes on ruining more games for more people. Eventually, guy 2 will have enough of running into guy 1's game after game and he'll take matters into his own hands because League/theater isn't handling guy 1's behavior. And at that point... while behavior of guy 2 (telling guy 1 to "F off") may deserve punishment in and of itself... it's justified in the context. Firstly, it's justified because he was a gentleman and gave multiple chances for guy 1 to stop being a jackass to no avail. Secondly it's justified because league/theater has shown that they won't take action against improper behavior - ignoring and excusing guy 1's REPETITIVE disrespectful and inappropriate behavior. Therefore, league/theater has no moral grounds to stand on when they then take action against guy 2 for eventually telling guy 1 to "F off". If they'd taken action against guy 1 and dealt with the problem and THEN guy 2 STILL went and did what he did, they'd be standing on moral high ground for punishing guy 2. But having been a bystander to guy 2's plight only to then step in and punish guy 2 for what he does to guy 1 is not standing on moral high ground. It's having double standards. In that scenario... nobody holds moral high ground, although if anyone were to come close to it, it would be guy 2. Stop punishing guy 2 and acting like he's some unreasonable hateful jackass. Consider the context. Consider everything he went through that lead him to the point where he was willing to tell guy 1 to "F off". And consider your own actions (those of the theater/Riot) during that time. You don't stand on moral high ground when you choose to protect one person's right to "escape reality and have fun" while letting that same person ruin somebody else's. Either you need to defend everyone's rights or you need to leave everyone to defend themselves only. You can't have it both ways and claim moral high ground. So nice story - for real... as you can see from my post I draw similar examples to illustrate my point often - but Riot doesn't live up to the standards it claims. If you care about that, you'll work to change this. If you follow my scenario's logic, you'll understand the double standard I point out and work to change that about Riot. If not, you'll just post some generic response below trying unsuccessfully to out-logic me and justify Riot's current approach of protecting "guy 1" while punishing "guy 2"... or just have my post removed. Here's hoping you're different from the rest and actually give a crap.{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
> [{quoted}](name=woodvsmurph,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=yETAzw9Y,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-04-16T21:17:26.587+0000) > > That's just the problem buddy. > > You're throwing out the guy that keeps talking on his phone during the movie or who makes lewd remarks at others in the theater just fine. You SHOULD be doing that and you do which is cool. Nobody has a problem with this. > > But the guy who gets kicked from the theater for telling someone else to F off... while he might agree that he should get kicked for that, he's said that to somebody else for a reason. Because the other guy made more subtle references to the women in the group that he went to the movie with and because he kept kicking the back of their seat the whole film and throwing popcorn down the guy's hoodie. > When that guy noticed a theater employee walking through during the film and asked if the employee if he could do something about the obnoxious person throwing popcorn, kicking seats, and making more subtle references at women... the employee excused all the behavior. > "Oh, he can't help kicking the seat... he's probably just excited." > "He didn't mean anything by what he said about your friends... it could have been perfectly innocent, and I doubt it was 20 references like you claim." > "Well everyone can drop popcorn sometimes, and for all you know I've already talked to him about taking smaller handfuls." > > Individually, or done once by mistake it might be just that. A guy accidentally kicking a seat during a moment of excitement. A guy grabbing too much popcorn and spilling some. A guy making an innocent comment. > Done repetitively and without any sign of remorse for potential "misunderstanding", it isn't a mistake. It is a guy intentionally being an ass to another guy. And if the movie theater doesn't like that second guy telling the first one to "F off", then they'd do well to listen when that guy FIRST TRIED to raise a complaint to the movie theater employee and let them handle the situation properly. But the movie theater didn't do anything about that person. They made excuses for him and made the second guy sound like a jerk. Then it is no wonder that second guy - also just TRYING TO HAVE SOME FUN - takes matters into his own hands and tries to resolve the problem by making his displeasure more blatantly known in the hopes the first guy takes the hint and leaves him in peace. > > But guy 1 never gets punished. Neither in the theater, nor in league. > Guy 2 knows that telling guy 1 to "F off" isn't appropriate behavior for the theater or league, but what's he supposed to do? The theater isn't protecting HIS RIGHT to have some fun. League isn't protecting his right. What makes him less deserving than the first guy? Why does his misbehavior get punished when he tried to resolve the situation respectfully multiple times while the first guy has been constantly disrespectful and non-apologetic from the start yet has nothing done to stop his behavior? > > This is where people have a problem. This is why I quit playing league despite it being my favorite game. Because I've grown sick of you guys defending guy 1 while crucifying guy 2 (me). Guy 1 has a right to have a fun game without me cursing at him? Great, I agree. But I also have a right to enjoy a game without guy 1 low-key harassing and flaming me all game and going out of his way to ruin the game so that I can't even mind my own business and have fun too. If I'm minding my own business and trying to just enjoy the game only for guy 1 to come and do everything in his power to ruin it for me, being confrontational towards me, and trying to get my teammates to join him in harassing me... I think I have a right to be defended too. I have a right for you to give him the axe if he won't fix his poor behavior. But like mr. spill the popcorn, harass women in the theaters, and kick the back of your seat repetitively... guy 1 in league gets a free pass. His behavior is excused by you rather than examined and punished. Even if guy 2 never tells guy 1 to "F off", guy 1 doesn't have anything done to him to reform his behavior. So he goes on ruining more games for more people. Eventually, guy 2 will have enough of running into guy 1's game after game and he'll take matters into his own hands because League/theater isn't handling guy 1's behavior. And at that point... while behavior of guy 2 (telling guy 1 to "F off") may deserve punishment in and of itself... it's justified in the context. > > Firstly, it's justified because he was a gentleman and gave multiple chances for guy 1 to stop being a jackass to no avail. Secondly it's justified because league/theater has shown that they won't take action against improper behavior - ignoring and excusing guy 1's REPETITIVE disrespectful and inappropriate behavior. Therefore, league/theater has no moral grounds to stand on when they then take action against guy 2 for eventually telling guy 1 to "F off". If they'd taken action against guy 1 and dealt with the problem and THEN guy 2 STILL went and did what he did, they'd be standing on moral high ground for punishing guy 2. But having been a bystander to guy 2's plight only to then step in and punish guy 2 for what he does to guy 1 is not standing on moral high ground. It's having double standards. In that scenario... nobody holds moral high ground, although if anyone were to come close to it, it would be guy 2. > > Stop punishing guy 2 and acting like he's some unreasonable hateful jackass. Consider the context. Consider everything he went through that lead him to the point where he was willing to tell guy 1 to "F off". And consider your own actions (those of the theater/Riot) during that time. You don't stand on moral high ground when you choose to protect one person's right to "escape reality and have fun" while letting that same person ruin somebody else's. Either you need to defend everyone's rights or you need to leave everyone to defend themselves only. You can't have it both ways and claim moral high ground. So nice story - for real... as you can see from my post I draw similar examples to illustrate my point often - but Riot doesn't live up to the standards it claims. > > If you care about that, you'll work to change this. If you follow my scenario's logic, you'll understand the double standard I point out and work to change that about Riot. If not, you'll just post some generic response below trying unsuccessfully to out-logic me and justify Riot's current approach of protecting "guy 1" while punishing "guy 2"... or just have my post removed. Here's hoping you're different from the rest and actually give a crap.{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} Guy 2 is getting punished for what he said and the volume speech. No one cares including riot if you say to Guy 1, "please stop ruining the game for others" or "quiet down we are watching a movie". They do care if you flame guy 1 and cause a scene ruining the game or movie for everyone. Just because someone is disturbing you, does not mean it is alright to flame.
: I brought it up because it is something that I can related to and has happened several times in recent days. Belligerent? Are you sure about that, or are you assuming ?(rhetorical). Funny though, you didn't address my arguments, but addressed me. Address the arguments brother.
> [{quoted}](name=Season 9 Blows,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=yETAzw9Y,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-16T21:08:30.041+0000) > > I brought it up because it is something that I can related to and has happened several times in recent days. Belligerent? Are you sure about that, or are you assuming ?(rhetorical). Funny though, you didn't address my arguments, but addressed me. Address the arguments brother. Just another misguided fool who thinks being black absolves themselves from potentially being racist. News flash, spreading racist propaganda and saying "it's ok because I am such and such" is just as bad if not worse. You are spreading something that people wish was removed from language.
Grape (NA)
: Forced name change
Go and talk to Icecoon, you all can start a revolution.
: I wasn't talking about the literal time to check, dude. I was talking about the mental energy spent dwelling on people who don't matter. Move on.
> [{quoted}](name=GatekeeperTDS,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=tweVFEpb,comment-id=00000001000200000001,timestamp=2019-04-16T14:21:02.634+0000) > > I wasn't talking about the literal time to check, dude. I was talking about the mental energy spent dwelling on people who don't matter. Move on. For most people, it's not even about the person. It's about the check and balance of the reporting system and Riot's adherence to uniformly enforcing their rules which is supposed to clean up the community.
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