: So about Riot and chinese market
No, they're not appealing to China, or any asian community. If you rewind back to the days of S4-S5, you'd have seen the complaints of people on the boards about games being too long. Go back further, and you'll hear the frustration of people having to deal with Ziggs and Anivia being able to fully halt any siege by clearing minions non-stop, stalling out the game. Hell, a bigger question, how many long games in League were already decided games? Just the systems of the time were just slow to end what was already a done game? Even then, it's not simply just because of Systems or Meta in League that League has gotten faster. People have gotten naturally better at the game overtime. The rotations of winning lanes to influence other lanes was a rarity to see in old League, but just like Lee Sin's insec, nowadays this kinda skill has flowed throughout the community. We've optimized how to take our leads and influence the map, instead of what was relatively less efficient plays in the past. We've gotten better at snowballing, warding, objectives, wave management, that winning isn't as hard anymore. We know how to farm better than ever before! So, no, I don't think that League has been changed to fit to a single market. People choose to blame the Asian market in lieu of realizing that games change over time, and blaming some foreign group instead of realizing that the game has moved past your tastes. Some could attribute League lasting 10 years, being due to the fact that it has constantly changed, for better or for worse. At the end of the day, I don't care. I like long games, but sometimes they're stressful. I appreciate short games, but sometimes they're unfulfilling. What keeps me coming back however, game after game after game, is the fact that I enjoy playing League and it's champions. I don't care in what medium, as long as I am able to. Game length has never been, and will never, affect my enjoyment.
Godlzahar (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vh6WrATY,comment-id=0023000000020000,timestamp=2019-12-08T08:01:40.635+0000) > > Only one part of the rework was a mistake, which was straying too far from the original playerbase. The rework is still a success in every other aspect. I really can't understand why you call it a 'rework' all the time. This is a completely different champion at this point. Not a rework. I dont understand why they didnt changed his name also. He has NOTHING that aatrox had. The only he had was the revive and they removed it too.
Well in my opinion, Aatrox still does have things from his old kit and playstyle, they're just not one-to-one. He still has his sweet-spot knock up that previously was attached to his old dash. He's still a drain-tank, just one focused on abilities instead of autos (albeit his passive auto heals him). His ult is still an enhancer ult, but instead of AS and Range, it gives MS, AD and increased drain tanking. Regardless of what you call it though, I can agree with the sentiment that the Rework went too far, to the point where yeah, you could call it anything but a rework.
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vh6WrATY,comment-id=0023000000030000,timestamp=2019-12-08T07:50:56.234+0000) > > You're not going to get a revert. While what happened to Aatrox is unfortunate, Riot isn't going to throw away time and resources to try to 'make it up.' The Aatrox rework itself was not a mistake and still accomplished what they wanted from it, it just simply had consequences that they'll try to keep from happening again in the future. The point of apologizing is to promise you won't make the same mistakes in the future, and with things like the Mordekaiser and Pantheon reworks, we're seeing plenty of champions sticking closer to how they played before and after. LOL how the hell did mordekaiser keep something from his old kit ? thats a completely new champion...
He plays very similar to OG Mordekaiser, not his 2015 reworked version. His Q is a AOE infront of him and does increased damage on isolated target, like his old Q was. His passive with his swirly AOE is his old Creeping Death. He still has his take damage/deal damage gain shield, but now it's not 24/7. The only two new things Mordekaiser has now is his ult and his pull, but unlike Aatrox, Mordekaiser still is a Tanky-Caster-Ap Juggernaut. He didn't changed to be an AA focused champion, or a bottom lane carry. You don't need to keep abilities 1:1 for a rework to be similar to their original state. What they did was modernize it, add windows of downtime, and fixed design flaws (No CC at all was one of them). The fact that Malicious Metal, god bless his soul, was incredibly satisfied with the rework, should show that this is still Mordekaiser to him, not another Aatrox case.
: True, but just because she was in Voidling infested caverns that doesn't mean she should be completely flawless and avoided any sort of consequence, thats basically a mary sue and mark of sub-optimal writing. She fell in when she was a young girl, ur telling me she comes out w/o a single scratch? Sure she can be perfect maybe if she was a highly trained adult, but she fell in as a child. There's no evidence that the Suit affects her mentally, and coming up with "coulds" and only shows a lacking in the writing of her story. We only kno that she worries that it might eat her, and it feels like pins in every pore, but thats not taking a toll on her mentally, and she shows no outward evidence of these inner thoughts. Honestly it would be better if she DID suffer some consequences but pushed on despite them, now THAT is what makes a champion, pushing on despite negative circumstances or what gets in your way, could have consequences like scars, a missing limb that has been replaced with a more monstrous version. right now she hasn't earned the title of champion, the SUIT has tho bc the suit does the majority of the work. Without it she's just a human that would have died in the caverns. She's just EXTREMELY lucky that the suit didn't acidify her right off the bat when it clamped on her arm. And if u have to explain why the suit didn't eat her early on when it definitely could later, that just means there's holes in the writing
> thats basically a mary sue You can have exceptional characters who aren't Mary Sues you know. The flaw of the Mary Sue isn't that they're powerful and good at everything, the issue is that the entire world **revolves** around them. If Kai'sa was truly a Mary Sue, the Void's entire goal is to kill her, and killing everyone else is just a way to kill her. Instead of villagers fleeing from her in terror, they'd all love and cheer for her. The world would revolve entirely around the Mary Sue, enemies, allies, civilians they only exist to surround the main character. Which they don't. The Void isn't purposefully targeting Kai'sa, it's just killing whatever is alive. The people of Shurima actively fear her, consider her a monster, and she herself questions her humanity as well because of this. She's only barely able to fend off the Voidling that then starts to fuse with her, but she only grows further from there. The fact that she managed to survive as long as she did to start learning how to hunt the Void, is likely thanks to it, but there's a point where the Voidling is no longer why she survives. She is. And, yes, there is evidence that the suit affects her mentally, have you read any of her other lore stories outside her Bio? In the story where she drags a leader down into the caverns to show him what truly exists down there, she feels the suit desire to eat the leader, and she herself feels the same desire though she recognizes it for what it is. The suit, the voidling. Even without manipulation, the suit simply being alive can be enough to help a mental state of someone, that they aren't truly alone. Think Wilson from Castaway, or a pet. It's a personal presence that she actively feels on her, it's desires, it's wants, it's just not human. And no, the suit doesn't do all the work for her. That's like saying Iron Man doesn't do anything, it's only the suit that does anything. The suit does not automate her movements, doesn't make decisions for her, doesn't choose when to fire the weapon. That's Kai'sa. What the suit does is give her the durability and tools to deal with the dangers to ensure survival for itself and Kai'sa. Kai'sa is both herself and the suit. Her actions are helped by the suit, but the suit can't do them alone. They are one, any action is both of theirs. And once again, I feel like you haven't read any of Kai'sas actual lore. The void creature didn't try to eat her early, because killing Kai'sa would've meant itself dying. It had to choose between survival or a kill, and it chose to live. Is that luck? Yea, but it's not entirely unbelievable that a creature would choose that, so the impact of it being luck is lessened due to such an action being believable. The reason why the suit doesn't eat her now is because... well we don't know. Neither does Kai'sa. Is it unable to? Does it *choose* not to? Are both she and the suit one at this point that such an action would be like ourselves eating our own arm? Does it deem being with Kai'sa as the best chance for Survival? Or is Kai'sa slowly becoming apart of the Voidling itself? That's not a hole in the writing, that's intrigue, a purposeful vagueness to keep both reader and character unsure about, and reveal later on. The biggest issue I see with people talking about Kai'sa's story is that they chalk up everything to the suit, but forget one thing. The Suit's only desire is **Survival**. The entire reason it joined with Kai'sa, was to stop itself from dying. It has no other desires but survival. Kai'sa is the one who took this suit, and chose to make it the weapon to hunt other Voidsent. The suit helped her survive, but she's chosen to hunt.
: Can someone explain the twin shadows icon
It's a ghost of a manta ray obviously.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vh6WrATY,comment-id=0023000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-08T03:12:24.982+0000) > > Thematic, sure, a drain tank, but not how it's played out in game. People enjoy the auto-attack play style, and while it can use work to overcome his afk-melee (Which kinda makes you look biased against melee autoattackers when you say it like it), it's not impossible. Like I said, I like new Aatrox better right now as do you, but we're not the people affected. The old mains of Aatrox are, a far greater percentage than any other reworked champion. Aatrox had NO MAINS. Like 3 people in the entire world played him. Most of the people complaining? Havnt played more than 10 games of old Aatrox. One of the reasons Aatrox and Urgot got reworks is because literally no one played them.
Yes, he had mains. Stop trying to act like no one actually cared for this champion, there were people. Not a lot, perhaps, but people still played and enjoyed him regardless. They still deserve to have their voices listened to.
: If they can admit they made a mistake they can also undo that mistake. Isn't that amazing?
Only one part of the rework was a mistake, which was straying too far from the original playerbase. The rework is still a success in every other aspect.
xelaker (NA)
: A mod trying to white knight rito??? Quick someone take a picture!
I didn't even mention Riot, literally just talking about Champion runes.
Lock On (NA)
: A revert would actually fill those empty words with sincerity. "Yeah, we fucked up, but hey, shit happens" without attempting to repent for it is not an apology, it's poor PR.
You're not going to get a revert. While what happened to Aatrox is unfortunate, Riot isn't going to throw away time and resources to try to 'make it up.' The Aatrox rework itself was not a mistake and still accomplished what they wanted from it, it just simply had consequences that they'll try to keep from happening again in the future. The point of apologizing is to promise you won't make the same mistakes in the future, and with things like the Mordekaiser and Pantheon reworks, we're seeing plenty of champions sticking closer to how they played before and after.
: But its also a broken amount of attack speed after a delay, and you get PLENTY of other things at the same time. Including adaptive force and damage from various sources. Runes Reforged significantly powercrept the game, along with "improved" keystones being added with the original mastery system before it. They added plenty of damage to the game, while removing defense. This is after nerfing the gold value of defensive stats and buffing the gold value of offensive stats...and nerfing tank items while buffing offensive items. League of Thunderlord's. All I gotta say.
Kay, I'm not talking about any of that. Whether it's broken or whatever isn't the point of this thread. The point was that he's complaining that it's 'boring', when he's only looking at half of what is currently in the game. Fundamentally, he's complaining about half a system and saying it's boring. That's like me eating an empty taco shell and complaining it tastes bland.
Crashyy (EUW)
: +9 adaptive force, 8 armor, 6 magic resist, 15-90 HP...It's boring.
You're kinda half-missing the point of the Runes system. The pure and simple stats are only half the story, the ones from the Keystones and Minor rune choices are typically just a form of extra stats meant to influence your playstyle. What's the difference between AS runes and Lethal Tempo? Lethal Tempo only works against Champions (or procs off champions) instead of 24/7.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vh6WrATY,comment-id=00230000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-08T02:24:30.533+0000) > > 2%-3% is small, sure, but just because it's small doesn't mean they should be ignored. They shouldn't be catered 100% to, as I said somethings should go when VGU'ing, but to completely tear away a champion from what they were. Sion, Urgot and Poppy were drastically old enough where the things people enjoy weren't healthy at all. Aatrox, however, while he was unhealthy as his drain tank auto'er, we have other auto-attackers in the game that Riot's fine with for the most part. > > I don't believe that turning Aatrox into a Caster-based juggernaut was the **only** solution to Old Aatrox. It was certainly a good one, to some degree, but one that tore what wasn't inherently unhealthy, autoattacked based champs. He still has the exact same thematic Aatrox had before had, and is a much better champion because of the change. I still fail to see the issue. The old Aatrox players can play Yi if they still want an afk melee autoattacker.
Thematic, sure, a drain tank, but not how it's played out in game. People enjoy the auto-attack play style, and while it can use work to overcome his afk-melee (Which kinda makes you look biased against melee autoattackers when you say it like it), it's not impossible. Like I said, I like new Aatrox better right now as do you, but we're not the people affected. The old mains of Aatrox are, a far greater percentage than any other reworked champion.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vh6WrATY,comment-id=002300000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-08T00:39:52.630+0000) > > Was it an improvement? Very much so. Did it isolate an extreme part of his playerbase? Very much so as well. I do think it is in Riot's best interest to be able to keep player's favorite champions as close to what they originally liked, but even I won't deny that sometimes some things do just need to go. It's a hard balance to find, to change enough problematic parts while retaining playerbase. An extreme part of his playerbase? All of, what? 3 people that played him? His playerbase now dwarfs his prior playerbase by far. Granted, that was an extremely low bar, but it is what it is. He was urgot levels of no one played him.
2%-3% is small, sure, but just because it's small doesn't mean they should be ignored. They shouldn't be catered 100% to, as I said somethings should go when VGU'ing, but to completely tear away a champion from what they were. Sion, Urgot and Poppy were drastically old enough where the things people enjoy weren't healthy at all. Aatrox, however, while he was unhealthy as his drain tank auto'er, we have other auto-attackers in the game that Riot's fine with for the most part. I don't believe that turning Aatrox into a Caster-based juggernaut was the **only** solution to Old Aatrox. It was certainly a good one, to some degree, but one that tore what wasn't inherently unhealthy, autoattacked based champs.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vh6WrATY,comment-id=0023000000010000,timestamp=2019-12-07T20:35:36.451+0000) > > Just to be clear, I'm not Riot. Just a volunteer. That aside, Meddler has said in the future they'll try to avoid going as drastically as Aatrox's in the future VGUs, in one of his Gameplay Thoughts, but we've yet to have had a VGU since then, so it all depends on whenever we get the Fiddle or Volibear reworks to see if their word truly holds true. Hopefully it doesnt. Aatrox's rework was a massive improvement, and should set the bar. Also... we had Morde.... he got a full rework as well.
Was it an improvement? Very much so. Did it isolate an extreme part of his playerbase? Very much so as well. I do think it is in Riot's best interest to be able to keep player's favorite champions as close to what they originally liked, but even I won't deny that sometimes some things do just need to go. It's a hard balance to find, to change enough problematic parts while retaining playerbase.
: The only lesson that matters is illustrating you have knowledge of the effect on the people you treated poorly. If you do not show you have learned from mistakes, then any apology is empty words that no one appreciates or respects. To emotionally intelligent people, it really shows you do not care about the people if you are going to acknowledge the harm you caused, and do nothing to fix it. Insincere apologies without action makes things worse.
Just to be clear, I'm not Riot. Just a volunteer. That aside, Meddler has said in the future they'll try to avoid going as drastically as Aatrox's in the future VGUs, in one of his Gameplay Thoughts, but we've yet to have had a VGU since then, so it all depends on whenever we get the Fiddle or Volibear reworks to see if their word truly holds true.
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vh6WrATY,comment-id=00230000,timestamp=2019-12-07T19:25:11.922+0000) > > Riot has acknowledged that they may have strayed too far in VGU'ing Aatrox, isolating him from his original playerbase. That said, as sad as it may be, that makes Aatrox a lesson to be learned from, not something to be reverted. Translation: "We don't care what any of you pay pigs think. No revert. Buy RP like good little pay piggies."
You are certainly free to think that. If it's any consolation, Aatrox died so that future VGU's and their playerbases will never feel the same brunt as him. Truly, a Christ-like figure.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wulf Helhammer,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=mYPFoXEo,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-07T04:55:52.240+0000) > > Here's the thing: Kai'Sa is not supposed to be monstrous. > > Hold on, let me explain what that means. > > I know a decent amount of people here on the boards seem to have wanted "Kha'Maw, the beast thing from the void", but Kai'Sa's story was never about that. She is, at her core, still human. That's why she fights against the void, why she fights to protect humanity and the world of Runeterra. That's why they made the removable faceplate, why she appears human to us players, because that's what she is supposed to be. > > Now, is that to say that she doesn't appear other-worldly? That she wouldn't be terrifying to a typical Shuriman nomad seeing her fly in out of nowhere from a purple hellscape of monsters, skin appearing like the things around, giant shoulder cannons, firing blasts of *something* out of her own hands? No, of course not. She seems like the very same kind of thing that is trying to eat them at that very moment. Sure, if she got the chance to maybe get them to calm down, to remove her mask and show that she is human, they'd come around. But she doesn't. The person either runs away in panic....or dies after running away in panic. > > And that's the thing with Kai'Sa. She's not just a survivor, she's a *thriver*. She's a veteran Lara Croft, not the fresh one starting out her adventures. A lithe panther, not a roaring kaiju. She took the most terrifying place both in and outside reality itself, and you know what she did? She made those creatures of hunger and destruction her personal hunting practice. She took the Void, the literal embodiment of *nothingness*, and she made it her bitch. She becomes the thing the voidbeasts check under *their* bed for, the thing that goes bump in the night, but it comes to protect humanity, not to hunt it. > > Now, what exactly does this mean for skins? Well, for starters, it needs to emphasize her humanity, as that is the crux of Kai'Sa's character. Second, it can't be (what is the traditional definition) monstrous. A skin for her needs to embody the skilled and efficient huntress, not the scrambling beast that rushes through the undergrowth. > > A good example to illustrate this: Kai'Sa is not Venom. Never has, never should be. She's Black Suit Spider-Man. You can tell there's something not quite right about it, that it could hurt you, but she doesn't appear with a gaping maw and teeth as big as her forearm. That's not the story Riot was trying to tell, and that isn't Kai'Sa No shes a character who they claimed was supposed to be a survivor of the void What we got was a champion who entered the void got a void symbiote and then time jumped without any consequences to present day No signs of fatigue, damage, stress She fails to deliver upon the survivor concept entirely
> who entered the void She never entered the void. She only ever existed in the Void Caverns underneath Shurima, which are not, The Void. They're only a place that was corrupted by them and even possibly connects to them if you go deep enough. Also to be noted, if you're talking about psychological damage, that can easily be explained by "She's simply exceptional". Champions in league are called Champions for a reason, for being exceptional beings in a world full of magic and spirits. Being strong-willed, mentally strong against isolation and constant hunting of monsters, isn't far off. Side factor, the void symbiote does affect her mentally. Could also be that she never felt she was alone, or that it had a healthy affect on her mental state.
: There is nothing that is more needed in this game then Riot showing they were wrong in what they did, and correcting it by reverting.
Riot has acknowledged that they may have strayed too far in VGU'ing Aatrox, isolating him from his original playerbase. That said, as sad as it may be, that makes Aatrox a lesson to be learned from, not something to be reverted.
Pika310 (NA)
: I approve & support any & all champion reverts. Reworks are quite literally Rito giving their customers a fat middle finger & saying "We know what you want better than you do." Which is actually a line Rito Game has genuinely said before, unironically. Spoiler alert: Rito doesn't know what we want at all. Rito Game loses customers every time a rework goes Live. A fact they are aware of.
> Which is actually a line Rito Game has genuinely said before I'll take a source for that claim, chief.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 6
What's the story behind the name "Meddler"?
: What do you like and dislike about this year's Preseason?
My one real complaint is that when it's Ocean rift, the bushes are brighter, which makes me think I have them warded but nope, Qiyana stabbing my face. That's my only real issue though. Loving most the rest.
: I can't handle this burst meta anymore and so on
> Why isv{{champion:238}} allowed to get half my Hp with only 2 {{item:1036}} {{item:1036}} I imagine it's because you got hit by his double Q and W combo, same as any other mage or assassin would do if they get more than one damage ability off on you. If he's got two long swords, than he's at least level 3-4, maybe higher, so at what point shouldn't an assassin (A class designed to be good early game, and fall off with teamfights) not be able to deal a decent amount of damage for landing their abilities? A majority of midlaners are mages and other assassins for the most part, the squishier side of champions.
HeeroTX (NA)
: Full disclosure: I played TeamBuilder and loved it as well. That said, the queue for it (mainly for Mids) WAS longer. But again, this is the argument people have been making for years, give us the PLAYERS the option to choose "longer wait for better game OR faster queue for 'whatever'". My understanding is that TB was dropped in part because it forked the queue leading to less players in the normal queues, primarily support mains since as noted, supports had a lot of control of team comp since it was the hardest role to fill. That said, I'd argue that the number of players in the non-Teambuilder queue back then was probably higher (or at least comparable) compared to now. EDIT: btw, Teambuilder should not have been a big issue for regular ranked (at the time) because IIRC back then ranked did NOT have "position select" like it does now. EVERYONE was autofilled.
Well specifically, it was first pick, first served. So last pick was truly autofilled, while everyone above was a degree above autofill up to first pick.
: The last extension of Darkin lore was Vladimir's lore retcon, wasn't it? And it basically just casually mentions him as one's student. I think you're looking for Varus lore, not Darkin.
I don't believe Vlad is the student of a Darkin, but that hemeomancy was a Darkin type magic passed down by *someone*, I unno who.
Jaspers (EUW)
: As long as it sticks to his mind now and him now, talking to Kayn, sure. Adding characterisation to Varus or Aatrox, to make them maybe out to be tragic souls, is ill-fitting (to me) based on their current murderous/revengeful ways but back lore does help put them in a place you can understand why they are doing it. Rhaast on the other hand, I feel he needs to be the opposite. Less the better. This monster was once human enough to not only be some kind of hero in Shurima but 'worthy' enough to warrant Ascension. The idea that Riot could add lore enough for people to feel sympathy for his character, to make him out to be some tragic hero? Not for me. sadistic murderer is the best characterisation they could give him.
I think it'd actually be *really* cool to keep Rhaast as the kinda homicidal maniac he is, just because it shows that the Targonians were *extremely* justified with what they did to the Darkin. Meanwhile you can have another Darkin who is a lot more symphathetic, and draws in the audience to ask "Was this *truly* the only way to stop the Darkin?"
: > "We don't like component items whose passives don't appear in the fully built version." "Well, except support items. Just don't have income late game you ward bot lul." You didn't pay gold to have an effect removed. It is removed for free, like with {{item:1083}} > "We don't like gameplay systems that promote non-interactive playstyles." No shit, nobody likes non-interactive playstyles. Viable ZZrot will break the game, non-viable ZZrot is a trap item, why even bother with it? > "Well except an actually viable split push item that also annihilates any single person who comes alone to stop you lul." Any "single" person. Might as well complain that a single person can't stop Tryndamere or Fiora splitpushing. Unlike ZZrot that you can just throw on the ground, TP in fight and enemies either lose a tower or are forced to 4x5 with no real counterplay Sanguine blade is op, but not fundamentally broken and unbalanceable like banner or zzrot > the toxicity thrown at junglers who fail to get a single dragon is absolutely nuts Thats what they deserve for being the most game-deciding role in the game > we have 3 bushes bot lane which is actually a more impactful change than the smoking area they added down there and makes it harder to keep vision control. I don't think you are supposed to waste wards on bushes in most cases, unless enemies have a hook support > You could've brought back a revamped version of smite buffs which people actually liked Not everyone liked the "smite X camp in Y situation or you are trolling" buffs. I prefer being able to clear whatever I want in whatever order I want and with smiting whatever I want, depending on who and when I want to gank early. Not being forced to smite chickens before ganking no matter what. > Why rebalance supports by deleting their end game ability to actually buy items and ruining the dream of the full build support? Because Riot thought that all the gold supports get from their items doesn't feel as much as it really is. They were forced to spend some of it into sightstone, some more into a full upgraded support item, and only after that they got actual gold they can spend on actual items. First they made sightstone free, now they made support item free. I guess they tested it and it resulted in too much free gold for supports compared to s9, so they decided to limit it. I don't like this decision, but I also don't really like the meta of supports leaving everything to carry. I should not be flamed for clearing a wave 20+ mins in the game to finish my item, and I should not be flamed for not stopping my attacks against a dying enemy and getting a kill. > Why rebalance Conqueror for some god forsaken reason after a solid year and a half of trying to get it into the right place Because Riot wanted a rune that made sure tanks can be killed whatever happens. It turned out that this rune is not only good against fed unkillable tanks, it is also good against everything else on any champion that can stack it fast while still preventing tanks ability to carry by being unkillable. Eventually Riot decided that a stackable rune with sustain is ok, but its anti-tank abilities were too much. To be honest, they should have realised it sooner. Right now the only problem with conqueror is that it stacks too fast by certain champions. Limit it to "max 2 stacks gained per second" and it will be ok.
> Thats what they deserve for being the most game-deciding role in the game Okay, that's still no reason to be toxic towards your jungler. However, regardless of ideals/whatever, I've gotten relatively the same amount of flaming when I'm unable to get Drag as I did in Season 9. Nothing's really changed that much, hell, losing drag early is far better than last season because of the reduced stats they give compared to 9.
iiGazeii (NA)
: Aphelios had better get a Project skin
Oooohh, make the theme more into a form of "Advanced Weaponry", a Program Kayn could fulfill a similar niche with the RHAAST Virus attempting to override Kayn's PROJECT into PROGRAM Rhaast.
86400 (NA)
: {{champion:427}}
Why'd you post a picture of a tree?
Rioter Comments
: "Fill" is already a position option if you don't care where you're placed. Autofill should only apply to the people that choose it. If I queue Top/Mid, then I will wait however long I have to in order to play the role I'm supposed to play. I main Jungle so...the current system is not an issue for me, but I'd like to play other roles and often have to go right back to Jungler the first game I queue as anything else because, lo and behold, my jungler is auto filled and I'm not about to let them ruin my game with their shit pathing and non committed ganks.
If you let people opt out of Autofill, than those who don't disable it get autofilled more and more, and soon they start getting the roles they want to play less. That leads to them disabling autofill, and further on with a snowball effect. By having it enabled for everyone, you create less autofilled games by a per player basis, since Autofill is being spread amongst *All* the players.
: But then you also need to consider how he got a skin within the last 6 months and there's enough edgy swordsmen in this game to replace him in that slot, even more champs if you are to go beyond swordsmen only. age isn't really a huge deal either. Yasuo isn't a spring chicken himself and Jayce definitely in his late 20s to early 30s yet they gave him an academy skin rather then making him a professor (which could have fit as he would be the "attractive male teacher"). Skins can be done in a way that they make the champ feel younger. Overall they did have options, but the main point is it says that what champs needed skins was something they considered and no matter how you look at it, he JUST got a skin not even half a year ago. That should have been a HUGE factor against him getting a skin with them knowing how much people dislike champs getting skins that quickly. Even if he fit the best thematically, there are champs who needed the skin who would have worked almost as well thematically who at least have gone longer without a skin (hell if they swapped Senna with the new champ coming, they could have had a perfect "silent producer" and Senna would have made for a neat Nightbringer skin). Everything else they said could pass and if they stopped there for that skin line I'd say there wouldn't be much to take issue with, but they didn't.
Jayce fit the student role because of his personality, which is done through his VO, not because they just made him look like a student. He's brash and arrogant, an easy filler for the archetype in a Shounen anime, not so much for a teacher. Yes, we have other sword bois, but Yi isn't exactly 'Edgy', Tryndamere's personlity doesn't fit the stoic DJ role, Shen's stoic but not very edgy, Riven's a maybe honestly. At best, I think Zed might've been a cool DJ, but there's no real significance between him and Yasuo, except that Yas is a bit less murdery. Were there options, maybe, but I don't think there are nearly as many as people are claiming here. At this point, it devolves into whether we think ham-fisting a champion into a concept is more important than space between Skin releases. If a theme resonates well enough, it's worth throwing another one out earlier than you might've, maybe push out the next one further back to compensate. Does it suck for some? Probably, but I prefer Quality over Quantity. I'm not going to get into 'What ifs'. If Aphelios was released right before Worlds like Senna was, and Yasuo still got the Silent DJ, I'd have a problem. Fact of the matter is though, Aphelios didn't line up with Worlds like Senna, and nothing's going to change that, so it's not a valid point.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wulf Helhammer,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=7PuOmJwm,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-11-29T16:27:29.009+0000) > > That does not mean those are *requirements*, it means those are *consideration factors*. > > That means they will look at champions that need skins, and if they are a good fit for the skin line, then they can go on with further consideration of that champion. If they **don’t**, then the move away from that champion and consider another. I would've just left it at "look at champions that need skins." It seems to me that the other champions in the game who haven't been given a skin in years could've been a good fit. I mean for example Xerath. He can rap, I mean have you listened to This is War: Shurima? Fuck dude even renekton would've been a good choice for a skin. It's clearly Riot just deciding that making skins for popular champions is better for profit. I don't think there can be any other reason such as for profit. The whole article is just I don't know man it just doesn't even feel remotely like they are trying to hide the fact that they are cherry picking from the top.
If they wanted to keep things consistent with KD/A, all the members of the band would likely be human. You could make Xerath human, I guess, but that just kinda moves him 200 meters away from the consistent theme of 'being made of pure energy'. Renekton, same thing, monster.
: Insight on True Damage skins: We tried to pick champs who needed skins
Does no one know what synthesize mean? > "The combination of ideas to form a theory or system." For the consideration of who needs a new skin, Yasuo probably rated low on the scale. For other factors, Yasuo likely would've rated higher, along with the other champions. You'll see a similar issue with Dunkmaster Ivern, someone who needed a skin, but maybe didn't fit the theme all the way, though I think his personality works for it (his kit doesn't.) They're not a checklist to mark all of them off with, they're just considerations. As much as people say Shen could've fit, in my personal opinion, I don't really see Shen as a hip-hop kinda guy. Hell, his entire thing is about *sticking* to Tradition, which I know skins aren't supposed to stick to champions complete roots, that's just my personal reasoning. Both of them are pretty stoic, and I'm pretty sure Shen is Zed's age, but dang he feels like a Dad.
xabier (NA)
: hey can you guys make honor orbs better?
Being honorable is its own reward :^). Jokes aside, the reason that you really only get Keyshards is because the Honor system is tied to the Chest and Key system. You can't get Keys unless you pay, or stay consistently honorable through out your games. Getting to Honor Level 5 is meant to be ***Peak*** Key generation, past the first two or three (Four?) Honor 5 orbs that can give the Grey Warwick, Mideavel Twitch and their Chromas. Maybe might get more chromas later on maybe, maybe, the blue is kinda ugly imo. So for someone new getting to Honor 5, you get up to two skins, two chromas, the emotes we got at the end of this season (Ward skins for prior seasons), said key fragments and minor blue essence... Pretty nice reward for just being a nice person, I like to think.
: Small indie company, they just don't have the money to keep it up, if you want various game modes look towards Smite, only they with their billions of dollars cna keep up several game modes at once!
Modes that consistently bring in a large majority of players instead of a small minor fractions of the community. The alternate modes in Smite are there because they're used by enough users, not just because "we can have them up lol".
: Riot: Yeah we'd really like to develop Vlad's theme, lots of potential, maybe one day. Other games:
The real problem is that Vlad fits thematically in his current state (Could be better, but he's at least grounded in his themes), his gameplay is alright design wise (Number wise ehhhh), and it's only his visuals holding him back. That alone puts him further back in the list than people whose gameplay is problematic or outdated (Hello Fiddle) or people who aren't really fulfilling their thematic very well (Hello Voli that is a bear, instead of a Demi-god). Unfortunate for sure, since there's no doubt that Vlad could be so much more. There's just a few more champions who could be so much more drastically than Vlad.
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KMutmpz1,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2019-11-25T18:30:00.284+0000) > > Or people could just get used to them instead of asking to be catered too. Yeah, there's no harm in adding a legacy option (outside of increased QA testing load), but it's such a minor issue. If people can't see them, maybe just tweak the new ones to be a bit more visible instead of just adding in more work. The change in the first place was for no reason, just change for the sake of change. How many years have the buff visuals been the same for? think about it, I don't think anyone complained before about how it was displayed on someone. So yeah if the change makes the visuals objectively worse, then people are going to complain about it. Not only that but I don't think you saying "People could just get used to them instead of asking to be catered to." really befits a moderator. It literally adds nothing to your comment aside from passive-aggressiveness. You could literally remove that entire first part and it'd have no impact on what you were saying. lol.
The change was to accommodate the new VFX for the dragon soul buffs and Elder drag, to make them fit better together as you'll notice people have mentioned in the comments below. You'll also notice that people have varying opinions on this other than "Bad or good", and think maybe some of the buffs could be clearer, but some are fine. And perhaps I need to watch my tone a bit more. Frankly it's been a bit of a rough month, and I even took a short break from moderating threads because of my mood at the time. Maybe I'm not as recovered as I think myself to be. I do disagree that it doesn't have any impact on the rest of my comment however. It was in reply to the original commenter, that just because there is an issue, doesn't mean you immediately give people what they want. In terms of buffs, I personally think they're fine and people need to adjust instead of asking Riot to throw in an option for those unwilling to. That's not to say the new buffs are perfect however, I simply just don't have a problem with them. They could stand to be polished up better for all I know.
: the whole idea of game companies is to cater to their players. are you high?
Does a company need to bow to every single persons complaint? What if the player is, dare I say, wrong? In either way we swing on the spectrum, both sides are wrong: You shouldn't entirely ignore the players, but you also shouldn't comply to their every whim. Players are great at spotting problems, but not so good at thinking of solutions. Is there a problem with the buffs? Possibly, like I said, if it's too hard to notice, you make it more noticeable with a change. You don't just immediately add more work for yourself for what is a change based on what players are originally familiar with, and time needs to pass to let them adjust.
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rn3mEAW7,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-11-25T16:44:10.114+0000) > > Hell I haven't seen Elder Dragon fucking once this season yet, let alone a dragon soul. I know Mods are people too, but yah know, maybe some professionalism wouldn't go amiss.
When I speak as a Mod, I certainly agree, but personally I prefer to stick to who I am when I talk about simple gameplay stuff, or am just voicing my own experience. More in-depth topics, or when I'm speaking as a Mod over a player, and most the time I am far better toned (I do make the occasional mistake :P)
: personally i like the new visuals and dont have an issue seeing them, but indeed rito could make an option that improves their visibility for those who cant see it well atm, or have a legacy blue/red buff visual option like they do with the cursor.
Or people could just get used to them instead of asking to be catered too. Yeah, there's no harm in adding a legacy option (outside of increased QA testing load), but it's such a minor issue. If people can't see them, maybe just tweak the new ones to be a bit more visible instead of just adding in more work.
: Less jungle XP means the opposing jungle deal less damages as well. Botlane XP nerf Added resistances to plates so turrets last longer when 3 people are hitting hem Less gold for support so they deal less damages You are complaining about the elder drake, in my last 16 games we got it 2 times and we had already 90% won these 2 games, it just allowed us to end maybe 2 min faster
Hell I haven't seen Elder Dragon fucking once this season yet, let alone a dragon soul.
: A lot of champions have animations that do the same thing. There's a reason Syndra is so powerful any time she's remotely viable. No cast animations is huge. Not only that, but Senna is likely to have much longer range than most of those with significant cast animations, especially since she can target through an ally, an enemy turret, ward, etc. This drastically reduces the chances of being punished.
I understand, but those are abilities, not auto-attacks which Senna revolves around. I too personally think it's kinda dumb that she can use her Q on minions to hit people, but that doesn't stop the fact that her auto-delay is the weakness she has, not that she shouldn't be able to kite. The MS is there to help her kite with the delay, but the delay is there so she has to stay still longer, leaving her vulnerable to more. It doesn't remove the weakness, it's still there.
: Yeah, remove the MS on AA or make it on-crit only. What's the point of a supposed weakness if you get something that removes/significantly mitigates that supposed weakness? Her range should just straight up be nerfed to 575 or 550. That's if they want to be conservative with nerfs.
Just saying, but the weakness is that .5 delay itself, not making her unable to kite anything. It's supposed to make her more vulnerable to skillshots and AOE's, not to make her unable to kite.
Jaspers (EUW)
: I've mentioned this before and sadly I think this is a nice time to mention it again. https://youtu.be/0xR_w2Avw-o?t=300 Listen to what Meddler says about a scrapped rune called 'Reap'. "If you are ever at 15% HP, just leave, consider that your new base HP." It changed the way you played and how everyone played so it was scrapped. What changed in these 2 years? Since we've had Urgot (25%), Pyke (30% for most ADCs and Enchanters) and now this, 20% HP = dead. Enemy team gets Elder? Your 4000 HP tank now only has 3200HP, they have to back out else they'll just die at 800 HP when that can be useful in prolonged fights. This Elder change isn't so get you to fight, it's to not fight, to back away and let the team with that buff win, get the game over with. Executes in this game need removing or to be next to useless unless you are basically dead anyway.
I imagine that the difference between a Rune that anyone can take and have throughout all periods of the game and a game ender dragon buff that only happens after 4 uncontested dragons, or 7 at most, that lasts for 5 minutes is considerably different.
: Just an FYI - pyke R ignores shields. (At least it used to if it was not changed)
I'm aware, but like any support main will tell you, you should be shielding before you get dropped to 30% to prevent that.
Mihalikb (EUW)
: I don't know if you are being intentionally obtuse or what. The problem with Pyke's ult is that it's basically spammable and his mobility/stealth/cc makes it much much much more easier to deliver than any of the other executes, it's even superior to Darius' execute chain as you have a much better chance to scatter/get away from Darius. And let's not forget about free gold component that just sends it to the next level of broken. Pyke's ult needs to be gutted. The extra gold completely removed or at least reduced to no more than 100g per kill participant, the HP threshold lowered and the resets limited by some mechanical requirement. After all that, Pyke would still be a monster.
Please don't call me obtuse for 'ignoring' points that have nothing to do with what either of our comments were about. My comment and post was not about what Pyke has in comparison to other Champions kits, I'm talking about the standards that he holds Urgot's Execute in, and comparing them against Pyke's. No where in Gonah's post was he talking about how Urgot's kit factored into why/how he uses his ult and how that factors into his counterplay. We're talking about the ults counterplay alone. So don't come barging into a post acting like I'm obtuse for not addressing points that weren't apart of the conversation. Doesn't matter if it's 'easier' for him to do anything, that doesn't stop the fact that the Ult still has 2/3rds of the counterplay that Gonah says he doesn't.
: But urgot ult has even more counterplay than something like garen ult. It's a skillshot so it can be avoided or missed, you can also technically shield it by using the shield to prevent the target from dropping to 25%, there is like 3 second window for the target to fall to that low hp, it can be blocked, it can be qss'd it can't kill invulnerable enemies like trynda and you can windwall or use stopwatch to avoid getting hit by the second part (the chains that pull you in). I'd say there is a lot of counterplay. Pyke doesn't have that though and is truly bad design. The dragon buff is a game ender anyway so it's fine there but the threshold should be lower than 20%.
Wait, what? I get what you're saying there but how does a lot of what you say with Urgot not apply to Pyke? You can: * It has a delay that can be flashed/dashed out of, so it's dodgeable. * You can shield/heal it by preventing the target from dropping to 30ish% * It can't kill invulnerable enemies like Tryn and Kayle * You can Zhoynas it The only things you can't compare to Urgot is: * You can't body block it * You can't windwall/Braum shield it So 2/3rds of the counterplay that exists with Urgot exists with Pyke, with the only things that can't be compared is just the difference in ability cast (Ground AOE vs Skillshot), which has about the same lack of counterplay that things like Cho'gath, Garen and Darius have.
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xriv3uIQ,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-11-21T17:21:12.987+0000) > > It's honestly really depressing to know that Riot had an actual post dedicated towards this one exact change, and we still have people conspiracy crafting that it's "Because of tencent!" or "Has to be washed and without depth!". Recent changes made some things flat. It's not a fucking conspiracy theory, it's a fact. Minimalism is getting way too overbearing in League. I know why the icon was changed, but it doesn't change anything. It's still boring and those shapes and colors are way too common in Lol. The Riot Points icon change is insignificant in the grand scheme of things, but it's a part of a bigger trend. The one that makes things way harder for me to instinctively recognize. I suggest, my dear mod, that you actually read what people write, instead of dismissing everything as a "conspiracy theory".
I mean, the Tencent thing is 200% conspiracy theory to the next level and then the next one beyond that. And I did read those posts, which is why I wrote mine. You weren't claiming that this is a new exchange into minimalism alongside the actual reason why Riot made the change, they're throwing it wholly onto the first part, and acting like that's the sole reason. Look, I didn't like the new Riot games logo when I saw it either for the first time either. I didn't really care for the new League of Legends logo either, but honestly it wasn't that bad. But that's only for the time being. We instinctively recognize RP to mean the points because we've been used to that fact for 10 *years*. The new symbol is only hard to instinctively recognize because it's new and we haven't begun to associate it like we have the old. At the end of the day, none of these things really matter. I've gotten over the fact that I didn't like the new Riot Games logo, nor do I hold some deep down hatred of it in my heart. You don't like a new design, oh well, they can't please everyone. Just don't act like it's apart of a greater meaning other than 'They wanted to make it look nicer', albeit subjective to each persons taste. But at the end of the day, you're going to adapt, you're going to change, and you're going to get used to it. It's almost like Preseason is a time to shake things up anyways, throw a wrench in the works and force players to adjust to the new.
: No one here listing the real reason it's because they have new games coming out on mobile and Apple and Google don't accept universal currencies.
It's honestly really depressing to know that Riot had an actual post dedicated towards this one exact change, and we still have people conspiracy crafting that it's "Because of tencent!" or "Has to be washed and without depth!".
Ventira (NA)
: Cuz apparently the gp/10 for Tier 3 is roughly equal to the amount of gold generated from the old support items, in mid-game/later, when players usually completed the old t3's. (which makes sense, after a certain point in the game relic shield users were not getting execute gold anymore.) It's also worth remembering that supports do have a grand total of 1500 freed up gold too.
I was wondering this too, but neat to hear that it's roughly the same.
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Academy Kayn

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