: We’re updating our policy so unusual play styles don't get 14 day bans
: Wait, YOU'RE ADELLAIDE SKYHART!!!! YOU'RE A YOUTUBE STAR!!!! Have you found an ADC to duo with? I'm a top lane singed main, so I'm not up for the task, but, I'm just curious Edit: I'm not free this weekend, but I would love to queue with you for one for all games next weekend
: @Riot: The AdellaideSkyhart V. Riot Case
very well worded. and a rather apt summary of my strat.
: I mean, if you could tell me how, I'd be glad to hear. But here's the thing. Zilean's bombs aren't locked to his character. If two different Zileans hit you with a bomb, you get stunned. If a third Zilean hits you with a third bomb, you get restunned. With enough Zileans it becomes a literal permastun chain. Until you die, obviously. So once the game gets to grouping stage, the Zileans can just doom push around objectives and knock down towers. The only way singed can even retaliate at all is to get in melee and fling, and even if you somehow manage this without being permastunned one zilean just clicks r and the whole thing is undone.
tenacity boots, zz rot, banner, 2 spirit visages, and a rylais ez pz
: Wait, YOU'RE ADELLAIDE SKYHART!!!! YOU'RE A YOUTUBE STAR!!!! Have you found an ADC to duo with? I'm a top lane singed main, so I'm not up for the task, but, I'm just curious Edit: I'm not free this weekend, but I would love to queue with you for one for all games next weekend
: I want to know what does it take to play singed correctly? I like singed and would like to improve with him but I seriously dont know what I am doing... all I feel like doing is troll the enemy team making them chase me but most of the times they just catch me fast and I die.
the most important thing is to not die early. just stay in xp range until you are level 6, which is a huge power spike. over time you will figure out who you can fight and who will destroy you and you need to stay away from (vayne, yi, fiora)
: One: It would fuck up bans. Two: That means you'll have to deal with 5 people that pick a Good champion sometimes, without the ability to ban them out. Even with 5 Singed mains, I severely doubt you'll be able to handle 5 Adept Zilean Players.
nah singed does well against mages. melee ad champs are hard to deal with
Enlegacy (NA)
: > and thus 1. wouldn't know how to play him, and 2. would be mad that they were forced to play singed and might just troll and int. So they are just playing singed correctly? Kappa
Jon1174 (NA)
: @Riot Level 1-5 Starting Champions Have No Supports
: So if you want to play supports or kalista or aatrox you wait 20 minutes? It will all lee vayne cait
isn't having to wait better than not being able to play the champ you want at all?
: When you say "choose the champion we want to play in one-for-all mode, and then queue us up with other people who want to play that same champion", wouldn't that take a long time? What if someone wanted to play Yorick or Singed but no one else was queueing with that champ?
personally i would prefer to wait the 20 mins or whatever, rather than having a shitty game. or not even being able to play singed at all.
: how do I downgrade if that is even possible
before you log in, at the bottom right of the window, there is a thing that says something like "click here to launch legacy client"
: Interesting solution. I was trying to think up of a way to deal with that problem. It didn't occur to me to use a queue that places people that wanna play the same champ together. This is a very good idea.
Rioter Comments
6Sfool (NA)
: I don't appreciate this yorick change. Why does it have to go to whoever whines the most? Actually, why don't we have an option for all spells whether to cast at max range or to walk into range? I'd like that to be implemented.
this is a really good idea lol. i get so confused because it works differently for different champs. once i was playing malphite and his R makes him walk into range rather than casting closest to your mouse and i was stuck in a jarvan ult so i couldn't walk to where i was trying to ult to. i was spamming my r button so hard.
javiercar (EUW)
: Have you ever write a guide about your strategy and play style or something? Im thrilled^^
i uploaded 2 youtube videos with detailed commentary on 2 of my smite support singed games if you're interested
: I respect that. Adellaide do you think we could queue up for a ranked game someday?
: For what it's worth (not much), I suggest adding to your c/c paragraph in pre-game chat a detailed explanation to your ADC. Not only what YOU will try to achieve (invading and putting the enemy jungler behind), but also what THEY should do to adapt to this situation (not push, not fight, CS under tower, play safe, and wait for you to come back). Also make it clear that you WILL come back and that you're not going to abandon them 1v2 all game long.
yeah i give them instructions in-game but most of them ignore my advice sadly
: I cannot find it now, but wasn't there a communication from Riot saying "You may want to play Singed support, but your teammates don't want you to play Singed Support." That doesn't sound much in line with everything else that I've heard. I'm unsure how I feel about a Riot employee even mentioning this in any sort of communication on why you are banned. It makes me feel like I'm reportable if my teammates don't like my choice (regardless of the fact that he wasn't even 'supporting' in the traditional sense). I'm also unsure how I feel about the 'my primary job' is to protect the ADC. As a low ELO (silver 2 on my main account), there are more than enough games where my ADC is quite possibly new or just flat out having a bad game. In these scenarios my best bet is not to spend most of my time (outside of laning phase) with the ADC as a lot of those games he'll be a non factor. Isn't the primary job of the support is to make sure your carries get fed and engage or peel? Making it seem mandatory that you must do this for your ADC just makes me feel like it's tying my hands even further when climbing as a support. While supports 'carry', it's a carry by proxy where you carry by spoon feeding the people who'll do the damage and get the kills. Without that, your carry style can't / won't happen (unless you're an AP Mage Support like {{champion:63}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:161}} etc). Also, Support isn't necessarily about shutting down their bot lane (unless you think certain support champions like {{champion:40}} aren't supports as while you can do a lot to protect your adc in bot, but really she's good at going even in lane... Especially if you're {{champion:81}} + {{champion:40}} vs like {{champion:202}} {{champion:25}}... just won't be a lane you do well in)
the convo you reference is linked in my ama post, but it's irrelevant now. i finally understand the main issue how my unique playstyle affects the enjoyment of my team mates. that's the main issue. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/5cyde6/3_million_mastery_smite_support_singed_ama_and/
: The message that Riot sent was completely useless as well, and snide/rude I might add. " I recommend not doing it anymore except with a group of friends who don't mind that you're playing singed support to go counter jungle, not build sightstone, and roam. I understand you want to play singed support, however, your teammates do not want you to play singed support" Anyone with a brain can see this as just a smartass remark. Also it isn't just the support that could be building sightstone, that list is essentially the reasons this person got banned. Getting support but Spending time outside of bot lane, counter jungling when given the opportunity to do so and not building sightstone. Who the hell cares what the teammates want. 3 people don't want teemo top should teemo get banned? 3 people want support to be tank instead of whatever should that person get banned? This guy wasn't doing anything malicious. His getting banned was just not right. Riot doesn't actually want to give us freedom to develop new ways of playing this game apparently, why don't they just make only certain champs and summoner spells selectable depending on the role you're given and stop acting like we actually have free will.
i think they explained themselves quite well. the main issue is my effect on the other players' enjoyment of the game. so ima try to figure out how to do my strat while trying to make sure everyone has a fun time.
: > You should not have to get your teams permission every single game in order to play a certain way. "I don't know how to play solo bot. I don't know how to play duo jungle. If you force me to play this way, I will do badly, and we will probably lose." That's a very reasonable position. League is a _team_ effort, and if you won't accommodate for what your team can and can't do, you're the problem.
i explain in detail to my adc how to play while i am not in lane. stay behind the tower, wait for the minions to come to the tower, don't try to cs in the lane because you will be engaged on and die.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: The word "communication" is typically used in a two-way context. He is telling people what he will do, but he is not listening to their concerns. Saying "I will do X regardless of what you think/say" is not proper team communication. It is, in fact, **his** close-mindedness that is the problem.
it is 2-way. skyhart says: hey guys i'm gonna take smite and invade the enemy jg level 1 my team says: we understand what you're saying and we don't want you to do it so the communication was successful, they understood and replied. but yeah that's just having fun with semantics; the bigger issue is the impact my playstyle has on their enjoyment of the game.
: > [{quoted}](name=My Sea Cow,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=79aGu3wR,comment-id=00020000000000010002000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-15T19:30:51.424+0000) > > so why can't we then just see the exact chat logs for the pre-game lobby? wouldn't that then just solve the whole debate if he communicated with team or if team communicated with him? > > If he did infact copy and paste a paragraph saying how he was going to play singed, but no one spoke up against it, technically he's not at fault as no one spoke up....no one disagreed. If there was disagreement and he basically said FU I"m still doing it then yes maybe he deserves it. I can't find them either. I also can't find him stating what he told his team anywhere on Reddit in his posts.
i have a bunch of vids on youtube, and you can check out my past streams on twitch
: He would have to ok Riot to release his chat logs they cant do it without his permission.
i hereby officially allow riot to release the chat logs of my smite support singed games
: I took a dive into that analyzer. It looks like it will list him as DBLJNGL if he records himself and someone else as jungle in a match (when he's playing as singed). It doesn't record what role he actually queued as. Does he only double jungle when he plays support? Edit: On further delving (because I was interested in the code, and data gathering code is always interesting), it looks like the analyzer gives a vastly different result compared to the static "result.html" you linked. Filtering out any match that isn't TEAM_BUILDER_DRAFT_RANKED_5x5, isn't singed, and isn't him, only gives 454 games as DBLJNGL. A lot of games, true, but JUNGLE had 1408 games. I also added some code (because I was curious). And **_DAMN_**. I fear for this man's health if the data is correct. Combining his total match duration places him at 68.44 days spent **_in game_** in 2970 games. That's over 21% of the year (so far) he's spent playing league. This doesn't even account for the additional time of queue, champ select, dodges, etc. Analyzer and data link that I used;
: Glad to get a response from riot finally, it's nice to hear the clarification on the topic, now we know off-meta roles are allowed but flexibility from both the **player** and the** team** he's placed with will be required on occasions. :) Ride on skyhart {{champion:27}}
: I'm very glad to see how things are being handled with this now and I appreciate your willingness as a company to consider both sides of this story. I was getting pretty worried for the guy and just generally felt bad for him all things considered but I also understood why people would report him. Thank you so much for the clarification. :D
: So let me get this straight, doing it a few times is acceptable even if it ruffles feathers, but if he practices it for thousands of games and starts to win with it he can get punished? So by that logic by the time I get a respectable win rate I should expect a ban too? The game is devolving I hope you realize that. The programming is improving and the rules/atmosphere set by the company are unfathomable. What happened to don't type anything if you ain't got nothing positive to say? What happened to not getting banned for playing off meta? (Now it's the opposite?) A support finally found a way to carry games and hes banned for it meanwhile any random player can try any random support fail once or twice and be fine but a player who dedicated himself to applying his skills with a champion to the least desired roll is punished? Millions of games must be played daily with players saying first time (insert champion) when they get support and then they proceed to fail. But that's acceptable as long as they copy how the pros do it without the skill to execute it? The values this game had when I started playing are non-existent at this point. (10 years) Expect some negative feedback on my next survey! I could go on and on for ages but I will leave it at my disappointment is over 9000! {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-rainbows}}
yeah it's funny but that's basically how i understood it too lol: doing it a few times is fine, but doing it hundreds of times is not.
: It’s a difficult question to answer directly because cases like this will always depend on a lot of factors. So hear me out. Communication is def key here. But keep in mind that there is a difference between communicating **AT** someone vs communicating **WITH** someone. In many games I reviewed you would inform your team mates of what your plan was but you failed to adapt to what was being said by your team mates in response. You can craft an innovative strategy but half of any plan to win a match of League will involve your teammates. If the team isn’t able to adopt the strategy at hand needs your help to recover the pressure falls on you to evolve your tactics and support them. An example of this is a match where you were filling the ADC role. Intent on fulfilling a similar strategy as when you fill your support role you left your support Janna alone bot lane. Much to her own confusion on what to do she tried to handle the lane solo but it’s clear it wasn’t working. A moment like this is a time to pivot on strategy; adapting to the circumstances that develop in a match. As bot lane begins to fall so does the team, eventually cascading to other lanes as the enemy gets more objectives and kills. Another example is one particularly unfortunate match where your team’s jungler was unhappy that you had killed friendly jungle creeps, starving him of XP he needed for his jungle rotation. Later in the match this led the jungler to going to mid lane to get some minions, which made the mid unhappy that they were now sharing XP. At one point they asked you to leave blue for mid, but you took it anyways; an important part of your strategy perhaps, but failing to acknowledge how the rest of your team is playing. The unusual strategy ends up backfiring; not because it may fundamentally be flawed, but because the human element of League wasn’t addressed and your team fell into disarray. The methods of communication within League are pretty limited to chat and conveying difficult plays or strategies can be tough. This isn’t a reason to not try something unusual, nor is it an excuse to ignore the thoughts of your team mates. But it is something that you’ll have to factor in when trying something new. If you are interested in trying crazy stuff I would encourage you to get like minded people together. 2017 will be the year of Flex Queue, finding and playing with players who understand your strategy, are excited to try it and are even willing to make picks that compliment it will never be easier. Queuing solo will always remain an option, but the difficulty of uniting 4 strangers to something unheard of is something you will have to be aware of and account for. We don’t have a specific system or feature that moderates this kind of behavior. Incidents like these are reviewed by Rioters only after they are flagged to us by a variety of possible variables we look at in League matches. We would never ban an account based off something basic like unusual picks, unusual builds, or weird roles. To be honest those kinds of things might get complaints from other players but they are not the kind of things that make a measurable impact on how painful a match might be for our players. However, players that feel ignored, disrespected, hijacked, or marginalized do report increased pain and frustration with League. In your case various factors we use to monitor pain in League were being set off in the matches you played. Your strategy was leaving a wake of discontent and frustration in a consistent pattern of games you played. If this happens again it’s possible your account may be flagged again. Should that happen; you (and anyone else who may be flagged in a similar way) are always encouraged to write us back. Since these are hand reviewed cases we will re-review the circumstances if you contact us. For my own part out of this, I’m going to talk to the team to see how we can communicate the issue better through Support. Our goal is to never permanently remove someone who’s honest desire is to try new things and aim to win their matches. But if the pursuit of **Science!** leads to measurable harm to other players (even if unintentional) then we may have to intervene. Not to punish (unless it is being done for the purpose of being a jerk) but to educate and find ways to mitigate the frustrating experience that is being created.
thank you for your lengthy reply. i think i finally understand the issue. i will be more mindful of my impact on other players in future games.
hi im ls (NA)
: you'll be lucky to get confirmation because there's no real way to tell how you can be banned plus if they confirm this it can allow exploitation
yeah it seems like they are always purposely vague.
hakubro (NA)
: did you even read it it said be prepared to be flexible if your team is not on board meaning don't do it then
he says 2 contradictory things and i was hoping he would clarify which one has priority. he says: 1. they like innovation and i should communicate more: "innovation is something we stand behind even if it ruffles feathers" 2. they don't like my particular innovation: "The line here is the player repeatedly showing no flexibility"
Gromp123 (NA)
: EDIT: grammar Okay, so we got together with game designers, player behavior folks, and player support agents to take a hard look at this player, the penalties, and the support tickets associated with it. It's clear this wacky Smite, Support Singed plays to win. It’s also clear the player struggles to effectively communicate intentions and strategy to teammates. In this case, unwieldy communication and the wacky Smite, Support Singed pick are tightly linked. So let’s pick them apart some. Innovative and unconventional approaches to League keep the game fresh, and finding new ways to win motivates a ton of players. We 100% support the opportunity to innovate with surprising picks and strategies in League. The only real condition we place on that right to experimentation is that you play to win. However, sometimes unconventional approaches to the game have costs that outweigh benefits. This player might have a respectable(-ish) winrate on Support Singed with Smite and no Sightstone, but the pick and build also nets them a frankly enormous number of reports and probably gives their ADC high blood pressure. That leaves us with two tricky questions: Q: If intentions are clearly aimed at victory, is there an outer boundary for too unconventional a pick/build/strategy? A: No. This is where we break from the Support ticket linked in the original reddit discussion. Real talk, this player is far from the only support in Gold V to skip out on a Sightstone. No one should ever get banned for skipping Sightstone. On the other hand, asking an ADC to lane alone while their support farms the enemy jungle truly pushes that teammate out of their comfort zone and that should mean something. We can all sympathize with the lonely Miss Fortune facing down Lucian and Alistar at her own turret, and it makes sense to us when they report this Singed player. Q: Do unconventional picks/strategies increase the burden of communications for the player and their teammates? Y: Yes. If you're gonna throw a curveball at teammates, you also need to communicate your intentions to teammates. You shouldn’t just expect everyone to "get it", so tell them what's up. To be clear, this player does attempt to communicate intent and strategy, but a good chunk of teammates across hundreds of games just don’t want to sign up for the plan. That lack of agreement on the new plan makes for a pretty chaotic game and leads to a huge share of this player’s reports. If a teammate in champ select says, “pls no, this is game 5 of promos”, maybe stick with something conventional and skip tilting your teammates off the face of the earth. In short, argue for your idea, but stay ready to be flexible. In the same vein, teammates should be willing give unconventional picks/strategies a fair shot. They could surprise your opponents more than they surprise you. We need to leave plenty of space for experimentation in League (Hi Support MF), even if it sometimes leaves us in less than perfectly comfy games. If you're about to play stunbot Twisted Fate tank support with Talisman, Righteous Glory, and Protobelt, let your team know the special kind of hell you're aiming to create for your enemies, and how they should adjust their expectations and approach to the game. If, instead of that, you wholly fail to communicate, or completely disrupt game after game, it makes sense that you’d rack up a ton of reports, net manual reviews and even potential penalties from Player Support. The net result is that players, if playing to win, have a fundamental right to experiment in League. It’s good for the game. At the same time, common sense and good sportsmanship say that experimenting players need to clearly communicate intent and win conditions to their teammates. In this Singed player’s case, the two-week ban’s already expired. For what it’s worth, we believe the penalty was warranted because in literally hundreds of games the player inflicted a huge amount of disruption on players who didn’t agree to their chemistry experiments. On the other hand, the player’s communication issues fall well short of permaban territory, and in retrospect the threat of a perma in the Player Support response was a bit much. We also see marked improvement in their efforts communicate with teammates in more recent games. It’s worth mentioning that cases like these are handled by humans and any player in a (pretty dang rare) situation like this can request further detail and a full review from Player Support. Still, with intent to win confirmed, gameplay experimentation and innovation is something we stand behind even if it ruffles feathers. After all, conventional picks lose half their games too. We think this player could still do a much better job of communicating with teammates, but we also believe players should be more tolerant of different approaches to the game. The line here is the player repeatedly showing no flexibility in the face of resistance to their strategies, and consistently forcing teammates into a wildly different bot lane experience hundreds of times.
Thank you very much for the thorough post. Does this mean I can use my strategy without fear of being suspended, as long as I communicate a lot with my team?


Level 30 (NA)
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