: Not really? In general, this board (when it's in season) hates marksman. The only ones I see get defended are Jhin and maybe Jinx.
According to the boards every ADCs needs to be nerfed into the ground or reworked, its extremely annoying to see them complain about every meta ADC as if they were the worst champions to ever be made, and its always the same dance they complain about a champion, that champions ends up getting nerfed or the meta changes to the point where they aren't well meta anymore, and there the boards go pilling up on the newest ADC to rise to the top.
: > [{quoted}](name=WarringNations,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MMKEPZQ2,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2017-03-13T23:04:12.791+0000) > > Screw mid Lulu. It's so retarded. Just keep support Lulu. support lulu is worse for the enemy and lulu herself
Not really, mid lulu does the same thing but with more damage.
: > [{quoted}](name=Dasdi96,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fl4o2YoG,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-13T11:22:23.340+0000) > > Meanwhile you let mages go bot lane, build full ap, and let them oppress 2 people instead of 1. Plus, where solo lane enchanters really that bad? I think I would rather lane against pre nerf lulu than lane against quinn or jayce as a melee bruiser/tank. I remember back in season 3, enchanters had extremely powerful kits on their own and didn't need items like redemption and locket to do their job. you do not want to lane against lulu, i promise you, pre nerf she was probably better at lane bullying than top lane champions who were made to lane bully
Dasdi96 (NA)
: "We can't allow enchanters to solo lane because they are oppressive."
If you think Jayce and Quinn are even comparable to Lulu in her prime you have no idea what you're talking about.
: > Brand, Malza and Zyra aren't "real" supports They're not. They're broken champs being abused in the support role You think it's ok for a "support" to do the most damage every game with little effort? To one shot adcs and insta win fights due to their damage despite being gold and level deprived?
Since support is only the guy that is not allowed to farm for the entirety of the game, yes I do think its ok, specially when the option is someone with so much utility that they're not even allowed to do a spec of damage, otherwise they break whatever lane they go in, so between the mage that is allowed to do his job without getting gold, and the enchanters that are so broken they're only allowed to function with low to non-existent scaling and only in the bot lane, I will always choose the mage.
SanKakU (NA)
: I don't understand why people keep calling Ivern a support. I feel like Kled is just as much a support as Ivern is.
Because people are too hooked up on the support=enchanter mindset, is the same reason people say Brand, Malza and Zyra aren't "real" supports, they don't understand that a support is any character that goes bot with the ADC and sacrifices gold. They think anyone whom is utility focused like Ivern is a supports.
Dataless (NA)
: {{champion:96}} I feel is actually really strong and has just been flying under the radar for while now. A full-on "raise the puppy" comp, something like {{champion:57}} (insert AD or Tank jungle here) {{champion:61}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:117}} would do very well. Especially now with the new Stoneborn Pact for puppies sustain and shields on shields on shields on redemption keeping him alive. BRING BACK THE JUGGER'MAW.
He is strong, but he takes time to get going, and since games have such a short live span nowadays, its hard to see him pop off.
: These Aatrox threads are getting ridiculous
The boards are a joke, I only read it to see what's the new cool thing to complain about and because of the memes, taking those guys seriously is a waste of time.
I Q (NA)
: The thing is, not only is Taliyah and Aurelian's mobility out of combat, but they are conditional as well. Taliyah and Aurelian have barely any options when it comes to mobility, its normally only used for 1-2 reasons, where as champions like {{champion:245}} or {{champion:91}} kinda have a choice what to do. Their mobility is binded by conditions, as well as being out of combat. And {{champion:202}} doesn't have mobility, he isn't mobile at all. That small speed boost is only used to kite in between shots. {{champion:420}} again, doesn't have a choice. She needs to have a target to use her mobility. I get that you can argue that they are immobile, but at the same time their mobility isn't useful in the way that the OP was hinting at. Their mobility either helps them go in, or helps them accomplish one SPECIFIC job, where as it seems as if he is referring to mobility like {{champion:429}} passive/Q or {{champion:103}} Ult.
Mobility is mobility, no matter how hard or easy it is to access it, if you want to specify then be specific on your claims.
: No I'm segregating story and gameplay because Riot Reav3 has said that story and gameplay are segregated. I believe the quote was how Sol would destroy almost anyone in one hit and Malphite would be bigger than the actual map. Sion has an axe. Until further information is provided we do not know what said axe is made of or does. As far as the lore goes he's a brute who can run through armies when he has support. We are not provided with any means in which Sion can deal with a flying target.
I mean if he is strong enough to go head to head with Galio (as stated by the rioter up there) I wouldn't put past him being able to superman jump his way into the fight.
: Well yes, but to sustain said body, And I am talking about if he is gigantic due to magical influence, like Braum lol.
This is also a world that suffered a magical war that left scars on the entire planet, its not too weird to think that most people are filled with magic from birth or had their growth affected by it.
: But magic doesn't change the fact that humans need blood flow to survive, and no matter how big you are, if your blood isn't able to effectively circulate, you're basically gonna die young.
We are talking about a undead that was brought back by dark magic here, are you sure you want to bring real world logic and rules into it?
: Actually they do classify as immobile.
An immobile champion is any champion with zero form of enhanced mobility in their kit, all of them have it even if weak, so no they're not immobile, {{champion:22}} {{champion:34}} and {{champion:1}} are immobile, because they have absolutely no form of mobility in their kit.
: The problem is also the psychological effect that NO ONE wants to negotiate roles. "Play what you were given you scrub" is the general mentality. In the old system you could negotiate.
Meh it goes from people to people, I have met plenty of "I choose first so shut up and deal with it" in the old system.
: > [{quoted}](name=Adriqnohee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=owZ5Jgzx,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-03-07T11:42:42.320+0000) > > Obviously not true. It is true that it says that it triggers off being trapped, but that's not what happens.
But where does it say that being trapped = being snared? For all we know being trapped could just be being hit by the trap.
GigaPube (OCE)
: they didnt even "make a new champion". his ult is a panth ult and thor from smite ripoff. i cant believe they ACTUALLY just totally scrapped one of the best ults in the game, just because it was a bit harder to pull off than most. looks like rito really dont want to make flash ults an absolute necessity to land, at the heavy sacrifice of making them a lot more pitiful. in yet another similarity to aatrox, his ult is probably also going to do 200 base damage lol
They didn't tough, if you read the Dev comments they have stated that the aoe taunt is still in there, its just not his ultimate anymore.
: Repeat: >Almost every season 6 champion (barring Camille who was a nightmare) **either had extremely low mobility or extremely conditional mobility.**
But they still had it, because they need it to function in the a game with mobility creep, that's OP point, or at least it should be.
I Q (NA)
: If you tell me that these champs {{champion:163}} {{champion:136}} have mobility then you are telling me that {{champion:14}} is mobile. Also, {{champion:202}} {{champion:420}}
{{champion:163}} has 2 forms of speed boost and an ultimate that propels her across the map, {{champion:136}} gains a massive speed boost when moving in the same direction and can quite literally ignore walls, if you're telling me two champions that where designed to be the best roamers are immobile because they lack in-combat mobility then you're telling me {{champion:91}} is also immobile. And regarding {{champion:202}} and {{champion:420}}, while their mobility is indeed quite weak compared to what we have nowadays, they by no means have a complete lack of it, (although I admit {{champion:420}} is a bit of a reach).
: {{champion:427}} is attached to a slow moving skillshot and doesn't even bring him to melee range 90% of the time. {{champion:202}} needs to crit or land W (the former being entirely reliant on 4th shot nowadays) and is honestly worse Blood Rush for ADCs so is Draven now considered highly mobile? {{champion:420}} like 200 range auto attack enhancer. The amount of times the "gap closer" is relevant is next to none and would function the same or better (could be used while rooted if you didn't dash) if you didn't dash at all and instead just had a longer AA for 1 attack (like RFC). {{champion:223}} has a semi-global ult that is interrupted by taking damage. It is 9 times out of 10 a worse TF ult since you don't usually end up taking someone with you (TF can at least get hit by an auto and still teleport).
They're not hyper mobile but they still don't classify as immobile.
k wìx (NA)
: A 'ton' of mobility is a bit of a stretch, {{champion:202}} is a great example of a champion who doesn't have much mobility - it's on par with {{champion:22}} . Still, most do - and Riot definitely has been leaning that way with Champion design for awhile. Not sure if i like it or not.
He has a speed boost tied to his AA that scales with one of league's most damaging stat (Crit), he is leagues (pun intended) ahead of Ashe in the mobility department.
: {{champion:163}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:202}}
{{champion:163}} Has a out of combat move speed boost, whenever she is on her worked ground she gains move speed and her ultimate literally propels her across the map; {{champion:427}}'s Q allows his entire team to dash towards an enemy; {{champion:420}} has her W, its a very weak gab closer, but its still there (I admit this one is reaching a little); and {{champion:202}} gains a massive movement speed boost whenever he hits his fourth shot. So while they're not hyper mobile champs, they by no means lack it, and the fact that there are people that consider them immobile champs, just goes to show how deep the mobility creep penetrated the game.
: Why does every new champion have a ton of moblilty
It all boils down to riot not removing flash when they had the chance, mobility has been generic for a good few years now, its nothing new really.
: Leave Cait alone there's only like 4 good ADCs right now lol.
When in the story of league did we have more than 4 ADCs in the meta?
: In what realm of video games is this considered supporting?
Supporting is league is simply giving away your share of the gold income and half of the experience, that's it, as long as you're doing any of those things you're a support, which is why I hate the support role in this game, it so happened that the champions better suited for that role used to be enchanters and specific tanks, because they didn't need gold to function and do their jobs properly. {{champion:40}} and {{champion:201}} don't need gold to protect their carries, {{champion:89}} and {{champion:53}} don't need gold to pick someone off, they just need to hit their skill to do their job, Mages like {{champion:63}} {{champion:90}} and {{champion:143}} in the bot lane are the new meta, because they offer both great utility and don't need as much gold to kill people as they used to, so its only obvious that the meta would change from utility bots, to utility bots that can kill your ass.
: I am mainly concerned about the enchanters going into solo lanes. I am pretty sure it is possible to put them there while still being strong in bot lane.
To go in a solo lane you need a couple of things, you need some form of wave management and enough damage so that you don't insta-lose every match, give any of those to an enchanter and they become oppressive thanks to having both great utility and solo power.
: What if we give AD assassins lethality scaling, and balance accordingly?
Short from every champion having their only item pool, innate stats like that are the best solution to item abuse.
: > [{quoted}](name=TeCoolMage,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iLHApdBk,comment-id=000a00000000000000000003,timestamp=2017-03-03T06:08:24.550+0000) > > Fizz and Yi would die quicker to them than Ashe, Quinn, Jhin, Varus, etc would. Yi maybe, but Fizz, seriously?
Yi is much more durable than Fizz, his intemization allows him to build tankier and on top of having a spell to dodge attacks (just like Fizz) he also has his meditate that both heal him and reduces the damage he takes by a at least 50%, if anyone is going to die quickly there its going to be fizz, unless he using that horrendous tank build, that was thankfully gutted out of existence.
: > [{quoted}](name=Adriqnohee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iLHApdBk,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-02T20:26:35.679+0000) > > So Range has a counter called mobility, your point? And Jayce? Really? You literally said they are ranged and safe, I named a couple of champions who can delete them without any effort, bam you mention they do have a counter, doesn't make sense, also I am more amazed at the retard upvoting you, but well adc hate is an easy upvote farming method.
Health is also countered by health% damage, doesn't mean the Stat isn't making you tankier, AD is countered by defense, doesn't mean its not increasing your damage output, the same applies to AP and MR, I'm not hating on ADCs, I'm stating a fact here, the difference between hitting someone from 180 units away and hitting someone from 350 units away, is that the champion hitting you from 350 unit is in a safer position, and range is not unique to ADCs, almost all mages can hit people from far away, some have a much bigger range than most ADCs even.
: > [{quoted}](name=Adriqnohee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iLHApdBk,comment-id=000a000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-02T19:36:05.852+0000) > > No they aren't, the selling point of range is safety. Tell that to Vi, Hecarim, Zed, Jayce, Kat etc.
So Range has a counter called mobility, your point? And Jayce? Really?
: I just got a 15 day ban from playing Maokai support!!! Riot I didn't even take smite!
: > [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iLHApdBk,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2017-03-02T17:29:59.470+0000) > > yes, because defensive itemization actually works against burst and assassins have to take a risk to get a kill unless someone positions poorly So an adc who's in range isn't taking a risk? Also itemization doesn't work against them? What is this biased lying here? If it doesn't work against adcs then the same is against assassins, most problematic ones are ad based. These boards never cease to amaze me with their hostility towards adcs, everything that bashes them gets upvoted even if the person said something retarded.
No they aren't, the selling point of range is safety.
: If Riot is going to ban all supports who roam to support instead of babysitting the adc...
Lack of communication is a terrible excuse to ban someone, there are millions of people playing right now that don't even say a word in chat, I can't remember a game where I haven't started with a /mute all, its not a reason to report someone, is just what they use to report someone when they can't find a real reason.
: What if Tailwind applied to Zephyr and not Janna?
Janna does not need buffs, and she specially doesn't need buffs to her utility.
: month or so ago i made a post complaining about this but Im pretty sure it got downvoted, yay me. rumble's damage with the flamespitter is ridiculous, no mana costs, low cd's, he has a shield, a slow, a dot, empowered AA's and so on, no one ever plays him though so thats why he's rarely complained about.
He is barely complained about because he is not that strong, shutting a Rumble down is extremely easy if you understand the character.
: Seeing a lot of Rumbles recently.. Holy fuck flamespitter damage..
He needs levels and at least half a item to start actually hurting you with his flamesplitter, but by that time you should already have enough money to buy {{item:3211}} and he is no longer a problem, Rumble is very powerful when he is ahead but is very easy to handle when even.
: To be fair Lee Sin's bullshit shouldn't excuse Maokai's. Maokai isn't too horrible but he is pretty damn strong. At least in my elo.
I think instead of using this to defend maokai, he is using it to attack Lee.
: So rather than address and fix the problem that games are too snowbally and short, Riot decided to just roll with it and make surrendering earlier an option? Hahaha, man fuck the current balance team, Xypherous and Meddler can eat a big one... What the hell happened to this game?
They nerfed lethality and all of the damaging masteries in the latest patch, I'm pretty sure they're dealing with those problems.
Rebonack (NA)
: Watching Malphite and Warwick slapping the shit out of each other is hilarious and anyone who disagrees has no soul.
I actually don't think Malphite getting raped is funny, but to each their own.
: Assassins were viable because only adcs dealt damage lol
If there is 2 tanks in the enemy team, the ADC needs to be brain dead to die to an assassin.
: THat was limited to mainly Warwick Shyvana and Yi with aa couple others.. This meta is literally seeing 4 people on a team gettign Edge of Night if they can use AD effectively.
Did you play the League of {{item:3071}} ? Everyone and their mother would build 6 cleavers, even if they didn't use it effectively.
: Ranged ad assassin? Like Quinn, Jhin, and Twitch?
They are pseudo assassins just like Vayne, while they can assassinate people, its not their main thing like Zed and LB, except for Jhin, having burst =/= being an assassin.
: Now that everyone's on a Jhin Witch hunt
I just love how every week there is a new "op" ADC, its almost like if you nerf the strongest, the meta will be taken over by the second strongest, but no matter how many times it happens, the new one is always "op" somehow.
: Damage being overloaded and the game being too snowbally is not a reason to buff crit, nor claim it's shit. Crit is also never a shitty stat for an AD auto attacker as it multiplies the effectiveness and gold efficiency of literally every other AD related stat including armor pen. It then gets additional modifier to scale on itself, and so with everything else even harder, conveniently also on one of the highest AD items in the game. Damage as a whole needs to be nuked from orbit, armor pen/lethality needs to go back to the drawing board, and RIOT needs to remove many snowball mechanics that they added recently for negative gains-- none of this makes crit shitty, and none of this means any changes to crit need to happen, unless they are part of the aforementioned damage gutting.
I never said Crit needed a buff I would much rather see it removed from the game, and I think you misunderstood me when I said it was shitty, I didn't mean it was weak, I meant it as in the stat is a terrible concept, it adds chance to something that should have none (trades and team fights), those should only be defined by skill, not because someone got luck with the RGN and landed a good crit, and if you don't think Crit is subpar in the early to mid game then you're not thinking right, Crit might be the best late game stat you can buy, but when everything you have is a {{item:3031}} and a {{item:3087}} you only have a 50/50 chance of using your build to its fullest potential, but a champion with {{item:3142}} and {{item:3814}} will always be at its fullest potential, there are only two moments when crit surpass garanteed damage, the firts is when you get luck and you crit on all of your attacks, and the second is when you have so much crit chance that it is harder to hit a normal attack than to crit, the first is a problem because you're adding luck to something that should only be decided my skill (like I mentioned before) and the second one only happens after you have your fourth crit item, and in a game that's not completely one sided it will only happen after the 30 minutes mark, so in a game that more often than not, ends before that mark is reached, Crit becomes a terrible stat. So while reducing the damage creep will make crit a stronger stat, it will not fix its biggest problem, that is the very existence of the stat.
: Crit is the highest damage increasing stat in the game. You can have your cake or eat it. Stop making RIOT bend over backwards to warp the game around ADC mains. Fucking 7 years is already too goddamn long.
But its also the most expensive and the one that takes the longest to start rolling, and in a game that normally ends before 25 minutes, a stat that only becomes relevant after 30 is almost pointless, and let me tell you something, crit is what makes ADCs so powerful and the reason they've been the focus of the game for 7 years, compare the DPS of a full build ADC building crit, and the DPS of a ADC building AmP, Crit is a much stronger stat to build, but it takes so long to start being effective, that AmP is the preferable right now.
: Its because riot is too chicken shit to make melee exclusive items.
{{item:3074}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3748}} Riot has no problem making melee only items, its just a dumb bandage fix that also has the potential to completely fuck them in the future, not only does it block them from making a ranged AD assassin, but it doesn't even fix the thing people are crying about, ADCs aren't building it because its broken, they build it because they can use the items to be useful before the 30 minutes mark, they build it because Crit is a shitty stat both to them and to the enemy, and making the items melee only won't fix {{item:3814}}'s shield.
: I know what you mean but it hurts to read when people put "literally cancer" like no it isn't literally cancer it isn't a disease in which abnormal cells divide uncontrollably and destroy body tissue it's just metaphoric cancer, or cancer for short
Some would say, its literally not cancer.
Rock MD (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=agbudar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gn2igRGO,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-02-13T18:57:25.203+0000) > > first you point out that ranged champions are not ruining lethality > but you still want mf nerfed... > > btw ive seen a lot of other adc that also work well with lethality become serious threats again > {{champion:119}} he certainly didnt need it > {{champion:202}} was already 2 shotting people without it > {{champion:110}} actually yea he needed some love > {{champion:126}} omfg no please no. not again ow wait they nerfed him so he no longer 1 shots people but 2 shots people right > {{champion:236}} hmm yea sure he bad place for a while > {{champion:133}} no comment.... > > so in general yea the buffs to lethality were in fact very favorable to many ranged champions. and some are abusing it pretty hard especially when all the players and not just some start picking up these lethal builds 1. The buffs to lethality were favorable to literally anyone who prefers hard AD and armor pen to crit and AS, which is not a subset of champions that are specifically ranged. 2. I didn't say MF was ruining lethality. I was implying that she was already way too strong and lethality made that even more egregious.
Its more of a case of lethality ruining MF then.
: guard him for like 5-10 seconds in a fight...some one is GOING to be dead on the other team...
5-10? Holy shit that's a long time.
Raoul (EUW)
: Well, we wouldnt have to nerf mid mages to death if support champions were actually worth picking over them for the SUPPORT ROLE...
What support champions? That name is no longer used to describe any of the champions.
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