: but mages don't build {{item:3155}}
That item gives damage, MR, and a magic shield. Lost Chapter gives damage, mana, CDR, and mana regen.
: > [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xU3ZWdE3,comment-id=00000004,timestamp=2019-05-24T16:36:35.482+0000) > > "hashinshin circlejerk" Dude literally looking at statistics, mages are performing the best. Here is the difference between you and Hashinshin Hashinshin doesn't believe mages are OP , he believes their items are You and the rest who decided to follow him ended up losing the way and started thinking that mages themselves are the op ones
So.... exactly what I've been saying? Their items being overpowered and that's proven by the performance statistics of the champions? You really shouldn't be so quick to assume what I think.
: The champion statistics say the opposite
I didn't know the boards had an algorithm that tracked the mains of its activate users. Oh, they don't.
: {{item:3111}} {{item:3155}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3916}} These need changes too, MR will shove a mage so far behind, especially those who aren't dot sorta ones. Merc treads also feels way too strong for mages with one CC to protect themselves, and that + hexdrinker means its difficult to trade back. Seekers feels hard to go early due to mana constraints (unlike ADs going hexdrinker), and feels onesided to go against a merc/hexdrinker combo. Cant really opt to ninja tabis because of how forced mages are to go mpen. Mages wont really get out of support if most of their damage and CC can be shoved aside with such a unfun combo, and cant protect themselves well enough with mana and damage constraints going tabis and seekers (going support is another complaint ppl have about mages).
my fucking god stop thinking Hexdrinker is overpowered when statistically mages are still performing better than AD mids and Hexdrinker is still outclassed by Lost Chapter by far
Your Otter (EUNE)
: A wild, immobile and extremely squishy {{champion:99}} walks into the midlane. {{champion:238}} : *one shots Lux with just R + Q and {{item:3147}} * Boards: .... {{champion:99}} : *manages to kill Zed in the end* Boards: Mages are so OP, honestly. Good job Riot, my precious one-shotting Zed got destroyed by a MAGE. I'm quitting this garbage game!!!!11!!11
except all Zed can do is kill a single target Lux gets to play back and spam spells for poke.
: Because majority of boards users/players are AD mains {{champion:24}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:238}}
Majority of the boards is mage mains, otherwise posts like this one would be downvoted.
YaraUwU (NA)
: Ok 1 when has riot ever cared what the boards think about gameplay? And 2 mage itemization sucks.... alot.
mage itemization sucks so fucking much they have the best 1300 gold item in the game
: I doubt we will get The Hashinshin circlejerk about mages being op became popular and a huge number of boards users believe mages need nerfs
"hashinshin circlejerk" Dude literally looking at statistics, mages are performing the best.
: Champs without mana should not have ability to poke
How is Yasuo, a purely melee champion, poking? What about the fact that mages don't run out of mana and outclass everyone you listed in poke?
: i dont get it sorry
You aren't losing value from continuing to buy armor.
: Because {{item:3147}} {{item:3814}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3033}} {{item:3036}} {{item:3153}} {{item:3035}} {{item:3134}}
Flat pen isn't hurting armor stacking.
: i'd like to "clear up" a small mistake i see here in the comments. ignoring any sort of armor pen, after 200 armor or magic resist, its really better to buy health. you have the 70% damage reduction and it wont go up by much more. you could spent almost 3k on a frozen heart to get 300 armor total, but you will "only" ignore around 77% then. i think at this point pure health is just better. only amumu and rammus have a small benefit from stacking only resistances. amumus e gives him more resistance against autoattacks and rammus is a walking thornmail.
> ignoring any sort of armor pen, after 200 armor or magic resist, its really better to buy health. you have the 70% damage reduction and it wont go up by much more. This is incorrect, because the amount of damage reduction increases in value as you get more of it. 99.99% damage reduction is worth 100 the amount of 99% damage reduction.
: > [{quoted}](name=AHarmlessTaco,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MTQZ0a6k,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-05-18T15:59:25.589+0000) > > That's not entirely true. Every 1 armor or magic resist increases your effective health by 1% against that type of damage. The argument to be made is that at some point it is more valuable to invest in health rather than additional armor, and that the more armor you have the more value is gained from the Last Whisper and the Black Cleaver, while more health gives BoTRK a stronger on-hit effect. That's literally what I said. Diminishing returns exist, otherwise you would be able to reach 100% reduction. Secondly > the argument to be made is that at some point it is more valuable to invest in health rather than additional armor, and that the more armor you have the more value is gained from the Last Whisper and the Black Cleaver, while more health gives BoTRK a stronger on-hit effect. That's marginal gains vs marginal costs....and with diminishing returns from Gold spent per returns back with the additional MR/Armor at high levels comes into a factor when purchasing your 5th and 6th item.
It isn't diminishing returns though. While the value of armor in terms of percent damage reduction diminishes, the amount of effective health in terms of percent damage reduction grows, all at the same rate. To put it this way, the jump from 300 to 400 armor gives less damage reduction than 200 to 300, but the jump from 99% to 99.99% damage reduction is 100 times the amount of health.
: Without offensive stats, GA wasn't really a problem though. And they knocked down the AP on Zhonyas. So I'm not sure how it'll be a problem now if it wasn't before.
do you not remember tanks abusing the fuck out of the item (GA)? Meanwhile GA isn't an issue right now.
: Weekly reminder that Riot removed ARAM bans even if they greatly enhanced the game experience
Saianna (EUNE)
: Only in low elo. In fact once your team knows how to dodge spells and pick some dives/tanks, mages aren't as OP as you think.
: Massive "Better ADC Wins" vibe in ARAM lately.
adc? mages are the most powerful in the mode.
: Weekly reminder that Riot removed ARAM bans because ARAM account users weren't happy about it
ARAM bans made the mode less fun. and also, you're dehumanizing people who have "aram accounts" and acting like their opinion doesn't matter because they think differently from you.
: Riot's OP line
Riot still doesn't understand how balancing a game works...
: Early 9.10 Patch Discussion
Can Kleptomancy be looked at? I feel it's unfair that Kayle turns into someone who needs Klepto or is completely unplayable. It makes the champion boring for her and her opponent.
: Note: {{champion:238}} {{champion:9}} team has a Infernal Drake and {{champion:33}} {{champion:122}} not {{champion:33}} uses {{item:3800}} and Q to get on top of the {{champion:145}}, then uses W and E to taunt her with the extra dmg, the fact that {{champion:33}} doesn't has his E to fight {{champion:238}} is crucial {{champion:33}} and {{champion:122}} delete {{champion:145}} and immediatly {{champion:238}} throws his R into {{champion:33}} {{champion:238}} uses E on top of him, uses W and then casts a triple Q that all hits {{champion:33}}, also casts Ignite and throws at least one aa {{champion:9}} comes with Predator, fears {{champion:33}} and throws his E that bounces between {{champion:33}} and {{champion:122}} ({{champion:33}} is hit by the {{item:1402}} proc, Predator dmg proc, Comet and {{champion:9}} E 3 times as far as my eyes can see) Note: {{champion:33}} uses the {{item:3715}} at the same time that {{champion:9}} fears him and not at the start {{champion:238}} casts another E, the R mark explotes and he runs away (For {{champion:122}} he literally only hits {{champion:238}} with his E and 2 aa's, not even 1 Q or his R) {{champion:238}} flashes {{champion:122}} Q and runs away, casts W and with it he hits {{champion:33}} with a double Q and E {{champion:238}} uses {{item:3142}} to buy time for the {{item:3814}} while {{champion:33}} chases him with Q {{champion:33}} reaches {{champion:238}} but he stops the Q cc with the {{item:3814}} and hits him with E and his passive aa to kill him Edit: If I have said something wrong on the analysis tell me and I'll edit it, I tried to understand exactly what happened but it's easy to miss details
Zed has {{item:3036}}
Jamaree (NA)
: If everyone spammed Riven, her winrate would plummet, she isn't as easy as people make her out to be. Edit: I want to point out that out of the 8 people who have responded to me, 7 have never played Riven in a ranked setting and the other one doesn’t even have a good kda with them and out of the multiple people who downvoted me, they are probably the same as well. I stick to what I say, I think she needs a tiny nerf yes, but she isn’t as easy as any of you think she is and if you guys actually played her, you would see that, but you know how the forums work, got to circlejerk, it can’t be that you are bad or your champion gets countered by them, nope, self improvement fuck that.
wolvius (EUW)
: Don't worry tahm is getting nerfs at 42% winrate support, surely that means vayne and riven are next up right???
toxic support gets a mini rework boards defend toxic support champion wtf
: Dear Riot, This is how you can reduce complaint threads without making balance changes
> In a nutshell, if you don't take the initiative in explaining the rules of your balance philosophy, then players are going to fill in those blanks instead - which will lead to endless complaints, because there is a gulf between personal expectations and reality. Then people would just complain about their shitty balance philosophy, which is, of course, the root of shitty balance.
Bazerka (NA)
: Thank you everyone
It's a pretty empty "thank you". Literally, all of the gameplay boards, whether it be garbage posts or legitimately good ones, are completely neglected by Rioters. Meanwhile, SAS and GD get the most Riot attention. Saying "thanks for discussing" to people whose discussion has been actively neglected is like a slap in the face.
: What did Kayle rework accomplish ?
It changed a perfectly fair champion into Kleptomancy abuse, late game meme.
BayoNX19 (NA)
: Why is an adc allowed to build an item with +65 armor and still delete everyone?
Saezio (EUNE)
: First of all, what champion are you playing and what is your team playing? Any disruption during rakans W messes the combo up. Also, his W doesn't have a long range, so if you are playing an immobile ADC when rakan has ult up and you are in range of his W, that's your mistake. If he uses flash, it's only fair you have to use flash too to escape. It's like Riot making Malphite R to have slower speed because it doesn't have counter play. I just think it is a shame some champions get their iconic identities removed because of pro play and how impactful they are over there, while other way way waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more problematic champions(for soloque) retain their problematic kits because "that's their identity". Riot doesn't balance with the same criteria on all champions. Riven and Yasuo for example have very strong OTP bases and while they both have parts in their kits that are much more frustrating to play against, their problematic parts are NEVER addressed. AKA riven auto resetting and yasuo windwall and double crit. I just believe Rakan should have kept his RFW combo and sacrificed his too strong lane phase for the engager late game support he is. I'd rather see him have only one E stack so that he can't get in and out so much and get more easily punished IN LANE where he should be more vulnerable. It is my opinion though, and we are only making conversation on our views on the matter. The change doesn't affect me personally in any way and I am only saying all these as an impartial member.
oh sorry I'm a melee champion who isn't ranged and therefore is always in rakan's w range who said malphite's ult is balanced? Malphite has a terribly designed kit. He needs a rework because his kit has 0 interactivity. Yasuo isn't problematic though. Riven is because she chains cc with a shield so you can't 1v1 her. > I just believe Rakan should have kept his RFW combo and sacrificed his too strong lane phase for the engager late game support he is. so he has 0 counterplay but also a shitty laning phase which makes him feel shit to play?
Saezio (EUNE)
: Hey there, sorry for this late answer, but I was boards-banned for 24 hours. Rakan's mechanic is not unbalanceable outside of pro play. the only place it is busted is pro play. Same with tahm. I do believe there are ways to make rakan less of an issue in pro play without gutting his RFlashW, mainly by making his laning phase harder, nerf rakan's level 1,2,3 QW ability damages and he will be a lot easier to punish early in pro, do it enough and he won't even be considered because picking him would mean the enemy team would have all bot pressure hence taking all drakes. On another note.You think max hp true damage every 2nd auto is not an unbalanceable mechanic for soloq? Or AA reset on every ability while it's not even stated in Rivens passive or somewhere?
oh so when Rakan RW's on top of me, and I can't dodge unless I flash during his W animation, where is my counterplay to his RW combo? There isn't any. Meanwhile, as they remove RW, the rest of his kit is being buffed. That's going to make him better in lane and more intuitive than just RW for teamfights. No, I do not think Vayne nor Riven are balanced, but at least with Vayne's kit you can just change her numbers to fix her. Riven, like Rakan, is an issue of what she does in her kit.
Krofinn (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uloMcihE,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-04-20T04:47:41.538+0000) > > That's contradictory. Bans would reduce the number of available champions. And yet, it increased *variety*. I don't know if it's due to rerolls or just a bad RNG system, but there was definitely more different champs played when bans were a thing. Sona was in 1/10 games instead of 1/2. Ziggs was in 1/10 games instead of 1/3. Out of 150ish champs, each should statistically be in 1/15 of the games. Bans actually got it closer to that number.
: I feel Zed is not a problem but the whole concept of lethality and how the game revolves around it.
Lethality is literally a healthier version of flat pen and is only good against squishies. It scales poorly as fuck too.
Krofinn (NA)
: I voted yes because I know they won't unlock all the champs for the gamemode, and there's a lot more variety with bans.
That's contradictory. Bans would reduce the number of available champions.
: > [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uRWh9Ze8,comment-id=001f00000000,timestamp=2019-04-19T18:18:09.753+0000) > > Is that why Kennen is being nerfed? Why Jayce is still being picked? Why top laners are frustrated with the idea that Gnar is getting buffed? Because every top laner has a hate boner for ever ranged champion ever. That’s just the law of this game.
Uhhhh. So how can Kennen, Jayce, and Gnar dominate top if "any point a melee champion gets on a ranged champion, the ranged champion dies without question."?
: > [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1bWuOrmE,comment-id=001f,timestamp=2019-04-19T05:32:08.509+0000) > > The enemy team literally had 2 useless champions, Skarner and Kindred. Your point? shows how much you know...Skarner and Kindred while not top tier are good enough if people know when to use their ults..both of which can win the game depending on enemy champ composition
Saezio (EUNE)
: Oh they really hate supports over there at riot. Especially the ones that can actually turn fights. Nerfing both tahm and rakan? CHECK RIVEN AND VAYNE considered "bellow the threshold for a nerf" ? CHECK
Rakan also required nerfs because he ALSO had an unbalancable mechanic. Stop being against the fixing of serious design issues in the game.
: Jesus Christ, just remove Tahm's ally Devour at this point.
They're gutting his broken, unbalanceable mechanic to buff the rest of his kit. I don't see the issue. Not sure what the rank 1 R nerfs are for, but I guess that's competitive play so whatever.
: I agree w/ most of your post, but I don't really see how Rito Videogame is listening to Hash. New conqueror is still there. Jax, Jayce, Kennen, and Riven are still very strong. Kled isn't seeing buffs, no clue if they are stopping Aatrox E rework. Out of curiosity, does Hash still believe that Hecarim is fine? Irritated that Rito took away all my other ban choices.
Contradiction. How can Riot listen to Hashinshin while also keeping Jayce, Kennen, and Riven overpowered?
: > [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uRWh9Ze8,comment-id=001f,timestamp=2019-04-19T05:33:48.218+0000) > > Conqueror is a failure because Riven is overtunned? Is that the argument here? > > Ranged champions still blow out average top laners and Grasp wins early trades. Not true. If at any point a melee champion gets on a ranged champion, the ranged champion dies without question.
Is that why Kennen is being nerfed? Why Jayce is still being picked? Why top laners are frustrated with the idea that Gnar is getting buffed?
Azeranth (NA)
: When will Conqueror Officially Be A Failure?
Conqueror is a failure because Riven is overtunned? Is that the argument here? Ranged champions still blow out average top laners and Grasp wins early trades.
: Seriously. The only people who were complaining about ARAM bans were people with ARAM accounts.
The enemy team literally had 2 useless champions, Skarner and Kindred. Your point?
: if so, i dont want these changes,
oh you want Rakan to have a 0 counterplay RW combo that makes him completely broken?
: Riot recently made the best addition ARAM ever got just to remove it mere days later...
Bans to aram aren't good for the mode though. Why do we allow the strongest picks to be banned, but not literally unplayable ones? Both are equally unhealthy, yet having bans only removes one.
: Not even true. I just played the kayle matchup as heca vs kayle she can trade VERY well into me as early as around lvl 5/6. In an all in she loses due to the insane healing i put out but other than that kayle's early is plenty strong.
Hec top isn't good anymore. It's not season 3-4. But the problem is klepto giving her free gold.
: Kayle's win rate for 35 min games is 60%
again, nerf kleptomacy stop letting a champion have a rune that gives free gold
Warpes (NA)
: wat.......... kayle was considered one of the true 'hypercarries' in her old design. she was literally THE single strongest late gamer, IN THE GAME. are you out of your fucking mind?
Kayle doesn't have true damage nor access to pen items. Most ADCs outdamaged her at full build and an item before.
Warpes (NA)
: old kayle has definitely not always been like that. she used to require actually surviving to late game, with reasonable cs and a not massively negative score. but now none of that matters simply once she hits a certain level. no champion in the game should be allowed a free win after being dumpstered for the entirety of the first half of the match, just bc they got to lvl 11 or 16. its a beyond terrible design, and it shows, with what? 4 patches now of her needing to be nerfed (and stiiiiiiiiiiiilllllllllllllllll #1 champ)
kayle before the rework was a mid game champion, spiking at 3 items best, and slightly declining from there (as tanks get dual defense and her lack of pen).
Lovelle (NA)
: She hits her power spikes much earlier than pre-rework. Before she used to start hitting critical mass around three items. Now she starts getting out of hand as soon as she completes her first item, regardless of how bad she started out.
um... kayle does like no damage at 1 item. also kayle spiked at 2 items before the rework (source: I am a kayle main)
: CAN U NERF KAYLE?
nerf Kleptomancy, not Kayle
Syrile (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YWp5A1e4,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-04-10T22:48:14.567+0000) > > casually doesn't mention that his top lane pickrate is low Low? Out of 143 champions? It is almost the standard percentage for the lane he was intended for. 0.83% I posted his total pick rate across all games. Thing is, assassins should not be beating up on tanks or bruisers but he is so busted he can.
Zed's pickrate top lane is 0.82%. That's less than 1%. Talking about his top lane winrate when his pickrate is so low doesn't make sense.
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AirKingNeo

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