: > [{quoted}](name=BoilTheOil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nBrXPEWh,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-13T22:45:17.447+0000) > > -3 ad graves was a decent nerf i keep hearing that but honestly, i dont see how... so it takes him 1 more shot per camp? ok... he already has a knockback. and if Ad change that small is REALLY much better on him than every other champs because how his pellets work, then a item like {{item:1036}} with even 10 AD with much more more effective on him than anyone else so he would crazy OP. dont get me wrong when they deleted celerity rune and i lose my 8 extra AP i need to pounce at least 1 extra time per camp.. and this increase my clear speed by ~20 seconds but thats only even and issue becuase thats 20 more second of me taking damage as a squishy champ which already has a horrible clear {{champion:104}} barely even takes a hit becuase of his knockback. and has a stupid easy clear and he gets extra armor on top of that... so i really dont see how losing 3 AD was _that_ much. i understand the slower clear time.. but your not taking extra damage.. your not losing dueling potential... and you're not a champion that is easily invaded. i understand thats is a nerf but and becuase of his pellets it affects him . i still think you guys are making out to be more than it is. AND the fact that HIS NERF was actively directed at nerfing him.
1-2 more shots to kill a camp would be a lot. You clear like 3-4 camps first clear. That's 3-6 more shots. Toss in reload time and you hinder clear by a few seconds, whcih matter for junglers.
Gramps69 (NA)
: God forbid you make the game more balanced and fun for over half of the playerbase...
god forbid low ladder players get better at the game instead of complaining about things high ladder players don't complain about because god forbid we balance the game around high ladder like everywhere else
: yep. Every single group of champions goes through weak and strong phases. Acting like they don't is outright lying.
Moody P (NA)
: i guess we'll just pretend that bruisers and assassins didn't go through multiple periods of being complete ass as a group
GigglesO (NA)
: To be fair there is %max and % current.
yeah but you'd still lose the same percent amount of the health bar except squishies take more percent of the HP because they have less resists.
: % damage hurts high hp targets more then low/average hp targets. so it is best against those tanks that every one seems to hate. alot of champs are now getting anti shield mechanics in their kits
No, it hurts them equally. They both lose the same percent of their HP. It hurts targets with less resistances, like ADCs.
: I'd feel better if you didn't answer everything with absolute bs. Since when were the likes of GP, Fiora, and Quinn tanks? Since when were champs like Sejuani, Amumu, and Rammus "mobile skirmishers"? And since when was Cass considered high burst? You're making up arbitrary nonsense to support a nonsense claim that only one class in the game can be a bot lane carry. Not surprised...and not disappointed either because this is typical of you.
2 anti-tanks and 1 anti-bruiser. Yeah, counter picks exist. They all have mobility spells except Amumu, which is why Amumu is the worst out of all of them. Since whenever Cassio has been competitively viable she deals burst level damage. You're using 1-3 examples in an attempt to contradict a trend across 20-30 champions per role.
: Why I No Longer Support
> If focused by the mandatory 2 assassins, my ADC disappears instantly. I don't Smartcast, so the 0.21 seconds my ADC survives isn't enough time to react. Mandatory assassins? No one plays assassins. Mages are meta mid lane. > If I want to hope to salvage that, I need to play one of the mage "supports." All of which are actually mid lane champions, and only perform as support because they can kill bottom laners. Except the best supports are Alistar and Braum. > Everything about the actual supports has been nerfed or reworked like Soraka. People HATE a good support, so instead of changing their builds depending on which support they were against, they bitched to RIOT until the entire class was beat in the face. Shielding was nerfed, their damage was nerfed, their healing was nerfed. Movespeed lowered, and toughness destroyed. Shielding and healing was nerfed because Lulu and Janna shielded for half people's health.
: Because "support" and "jungle" are **roles** that are populated by a variety of different champion classes. **MARKSMAN IS NOT THE BOT LANE ROLE, BUT THE CLASS HAS DOMINATED IT SO MUCH IT'S NOW SYNONYMOUS WITH THE LANE ROLE. THAT IS A PROBLEM.**
Why is it a problem? Support style champions are always in the support role. Champions that can skirmish and are mobile are always jungle. Burst is always mid lane. Tankiness is always top lane. What's wrong if DPS is always bot lane? Would you feel better if we broke Marksmen into two classes?
: you're not going far enough down. Gameplay type stuff rarely makes it that far on the subreddit because so many people are only ever there for esports.
The front page has 2 threads about 'gameplay'. One is the daily PBE thread. The other is Nexus Blitz. If you think that there are threads of "ADC mains saying 'this'", please provide multiple examples with more than 200 upvotes.
: "assassins are more fun to people" is subjective as by my reasoning, mages are less stressful AND more fun to play, so that explains why they are so common in addition to that they are 23% of the entire roster and yet...assassins and other still make up 60% of the top 20 roster for mid lane in popularity and 30% of the top 20 in win rate popularity is almost directly tied with viability, otherwise the lowest playrate champions would be the strongest, such as kayle, who has almost a 60% average winrate with 0.4% playrate in mid lane or zilean, who has a 1% play rate and 56.8% win rate ? Average pick rate is supposed to be 3%, meta pick rate is usually 8% to 20% with 20 being the extreme now here's where things get weird, you have a 1 / 10 % chance of encountering the "popular" champions, but you have a roughly 1 in 30 chance of encountering what would really be "meta" with 3% pick rate and greater than 50% win rate so then, are mages more dangerous, or are the very popular, highly contested picks with exceptional ban rates the meta?
> and yet...assassins and other still make up 60% of the top 20 roster for mid lane in popularity and 30% of the top 20 in win rate and yet only are 1 of the top 10 for pickrate among mid laners.
: 1. h y p e r b o l e. I'm clearly not being serious. 2. "Jhin, a champion who is weak to tanks, should be able to 1v1 alistar without using any of his abilties whatsoever and while at a clear disadvantage"
Supports, a class that is supposed to have low income, shouldn't 1v1 a fucking carry mid game.
: unsurprising, given that everyone raged so hard that ADCs got buffed back into being mandatory immediately after. Why don't you respond to the rest of my comment as well, instead of cherry picking one small part of it.
Yeah, people complained because adcs were unpickable. Shockingly, ADCs have to be really weak for other shit to play bot lane, despite being suboptimal in bot lane. The rest of what mentioned doesn't really matter. You didn't explain why support being mandatory is fine. You stated supports are different. So what? Marksmen are different too. Again, why are support and jungle allowed to be mandatory, but not marksmen?
Khabith (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2vVlzZ7E,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2018-12-11T01:57:38.814+0000) > > don't say things that are easily disprovable ? I mean ive made some snark comments about adc's ik what im talking about. ADC's come in hoards
> [{quoted}](name=Khabith,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2vVlzZ7E,comment-id=000b000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-11T02:46:19.508+0000) > > ? I mean ive made some snark comments about adc's ik what im talking about. ADC's come in hoards then where's the pro adc posts on the front page of the boards if they come in hoards?
: read the responses to this thread, ffs.
yeah, I don't see them asking for what you put in the thread. So why don't you stop blatantly lying? Defamation is wrong.
: Right after the patch that changed ADCs there was plenty of non ADC picks bot lane like Yasuo, Ziggs, and Darius. I can't list that many because I was taking a long break from league during that time. Karthus is another that comes to mind, but I think that's more recent and mainly just due to DH changes. You're also conflating one narrow class of champions with entire roles in the game. Only champions that are long range, AD casters/auto attackers that are generally squishy and deal high DPS are being frequently picked bot lane right now. (check op.gg if you don't believe me). "Support" is an extremely general term that refers to a wide variety of champions ranging from {{champion:89}} to{{champion:555}} to{{champion:267}}
Yasuo and Darius, especially Darius, never saw major competitive play bot lane.
Khabith (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2vVlzZ7E,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-12-11T00:48:25.082+0000) > > Then where are the pro adc posts? That's what ive been wondering, they always seem to be more active in the comments vs making an actual discussion. Probably because they know they'll get insta-downvoted the second they post anything. also don't be sassy with me missy lol
> [{quoted}](name=Khabith,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2vVlzZ7E,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2018-12-11T01:05:05.559+0000) > > That's what ive been wondering, they always seem to be more active in the comments vs making an actual discussion. Probably because they know they'll get insta-downvoted the second they post anything. > also don't be sassy with me missy lol don't say things that are easily disprovable
: adcs aren't garbage. They're still a mandatory pick in the game, they just aren't the monstrous, one shotting, 1v5ing force they were in season 7.
"Mandatory" Who else would take their place? Why aren't you against junglers and supports being manadtory? Where's duo top?
: go on r/leagueoflegends right now
meme thread esports esports esports meme thread esports esports.... ok what?
: if it's not already clear, I'm being sarcastic.
you also forgot being wrong. Because ADC players aren't asking for things, at all.
Terozu (NA)
: no not really, mage damage is generally all skill shots which can be avoided, marksman who out burst and out dps most mages btw, all have their damage targeted. Add to that Auto Attack and Target champions only you have a class that can instantly out damage a mage the moment something is in range with no input from the player with no cooldowns.
how do you dodge a skillshot at point blank range?
Khabith (NA)
: The Boards
> ADC mains somehow spawn from the ground just to downvote, and bring up hell in the comments Then where are the pro adc posts?
: The most frustrating part of this game is that all the high burst champions ARE SO GOD DAMN SAFE
How does Kha'zix have 4 ways? He has his jump and his ult, but he's melee, which is NOT safe. What's Yasuo's escape?
: Why are we removing defensive options from tanks?
> Alistar damage reduction nerfed Because it was overpowered in turret dives? Like geez, you're just making a list without any context.
Hibeki (NA)
: Vaynes core is first item botrk literally 90% of the time on champion.gg, so yes, you will always have it. Alistar walks into a narrow hallway and stands next to a wall almost for the entire duration of him being hit, so yes, you will always get to stun him. And lastly, This is not bias alternative. This dude was stupid enough to claim alistar was op enough to beat even vayne in that fight and i promptly showed him wrong.
unless this is, obviously, before BoRK is finished. There are narrow parts in the bot lane? Yes, the first person in this comment chain was biased by picking Vayne. And yes, Alistar could beat Vayne.
: That Vayne PBE change
man, way to nerf damage to make adcs more viable
GigglesO (NA)
: ? {{champion:420}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:62}} all build it regularly... and there are others that still build it...
not meta not meta unless you're below diamond garbage sucks right now builds assassin items anyways ok, whatever gets trinity good synergy, so ok also garbage and irrelevant
Rock MD (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j8hYulc5,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2018-12-08T01:50:26.440+0000) > > those damage made it better than other summoner spells, making ignite obnoxious af No, the consistent nerfing of Teleport, Ghost, Exhaust, Heal, as well as the meta shifting to more bursty champions made ignite more obnoxious than its buffs alone. I guarantee if Riot buffs champions that don't make use of ignite then we'll see a shift back to more reasonable numbers in the midlane, and instead of nerfing ignite so that supports bring back exhaust, buff exhaust. The spell is useless atm. If Ignite got nerfed into the dirt you're more likely to see Barrier on AD Heal on supp than Exhaust come back.
Hibeki (NA)
: Stealth to stop the EQ combo, stun for free hits, 12% max hp true damage + 8% current, yeah im pretty sure she would have absolutely dumpstered him.
This just goes back to my comment about Vayne being a bias alternative because she can specifically counter Alistar. But also your comment sucks because you're implying Vayne will always get a stun and has BoRK.
: yuuuuuuuup, vayne with all 3 of her her active abilities up would have completely dumpstered that alistar.
That's a bit bias because Vayne specifically counters Alistar's ult. Use a more real example like Lucian or Kai'sa or Ezreal.
: > [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5L3j97GI,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-08T00:24:03.600+0000) > > Just because you're diamond doesn't mean you win by default. You dont get bonus stats based on your ELO. The only thing that separates a bronze talon and a challenger talon is how well they play. Maybe next time dont go full glass cannon Udyr while being far behind then complain about being super squishy yes. because everything I just said is based on that one udyr game, right ? not the experience from the whole season, huh ?
considering you said, "I can get destroyed by **a player** 3 divisions lower than me." that does mean 1 game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5L3j97GI,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-08T00:24:03.600+0000) > > Just because you're diamond doesn't mean you win by default. You dont get bonus stats based on your ELO. The only thing that separates a bronze talon and a challenger talon is how well they play. Maybe next time dont go full glass cannon Udyr while being far behind then complain about being super squishy Doesn't change the fact that game is all snowbally and about damage.
but the OP's complaint is unrelated to the state of the game and he's just making an empty complaint when in fact he got outplayed ~~or they picked a better champion~~ (not a possibility since he'd mention *specifically* it). The post is spam and should be removed.
: I think you are **Vastly** Underestimating the amount of magic damage he does.
Where in Yi's kit does he deal magic damage?
: McDonald's burger
Is that hellborn santa claus?
: Conqueror is a flat amount + 20% true damage conversion. EDIT: Flat amount isn't true damage, obviously. EDIT 2: My math above is still not incorrect.
1 x 0.20 x 0.05 = 0.01 = 1% Great, so it's 1% of your damage dealt healed every time you deal damage added if you use Death's Dance with Conqueror compared to last patch.
: IDK why you're multiplying the 15% heal by 5%. It's just straight up 5% healing of the AoE damage you deal. Which is going to amount to virtually nothing. 500 damage crit Q vs a target w/ 100 armor = 15 healing with conqueror, 12.5 without. But, for his AAs, it's a bit more. 45 healing with conqueror, 37.5 without. 7.5 damage is 75 health over 10 AAs, and this discrepancy will be much higher vs targets with higher armor values. Also, he will heal with his E as well now with DD.
Because conqueror is 15% conversion to true damage The extra healing you get because it's all forms of damage instead of physical damage from conqueror is 0.75% lifesteal.
: Why does it NEED to heal off conqueror? All that does is break the item on quite a few champions.
0.75% more lifesteal woop de doo
: You said "doesn't change anything [for Yasuo]" but it does. Is it massive? No. Is it beneficial regardless? Definitely.
It doesn't change anything because he won't buy it.
: Um I think you miss quoted. Here let me help you. {{champion:202}} champion breaks everything he touches, and how he is gonna go off tank with this healing his entire healthbar every 4th shot.
except he already would do the same with lifesteal
: What the fuck are you talking about? {{sticker:sg-ahri-1}} {{item:3812}} Heals you a 15% of damage, a third if AoE, a 5% (1.05). If you deals 1000 damage, if not AoE it will heal you by 150 HP, if AoE 50 HP. So, what the fuck are those maths, holy shit? {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
Yasuo's damage is AoE, so his healing is cut to 5% instead of being 15%. We're comparing lifesteal vs DD being able to heal on conqueror
: The DD changes aren't the huge deal everyone is making them out to be
Jax doesn't even go gunblade. Exaggeration is the enemy of truth.
: The original {{champion:145}} {{item:3812}} into {{item:3124}} build is back baby!
no it isn't stormrazor is still better
: Conqueror.
5% healing on 15% of damage you deal. 1 x 0.20 x 0.05 that's 0.01. That's 1% 'lifesteal'. Not actually helping that much. EDIT: Conqueror is 20% conversion, not 15%.
: i'm not only defending against magic dealers. i'm also going after vaynes kogmaws teemos jax kayle udyr etc. the rageblade change might of been a nerf but it also created a completely new weapon that is super hybrid oriented. yet hybrid defense items don't offer what I'm looking for {item:3193}} {{item:3512}}. I do not like having to plan my build ahead that much, what I'm looking for should be more readily available in a preferred format. this is one of the main reason we've seen building damage outshine building defensively in league. especially when the game takes so long to get items many games end with only 3 completed items if that.
except hybrid damage falls off because it lacks penetration and items like Omen/Thornmail and Adaptive Helm shit on it.
: You forget there's Magic pen too
on a champion that deals less than 1% of his damage as magic damage? Does that matter?
: Applies onhit to the first target hit, plus AoE being reduced healing means hitting three minions with 1 Q gets the same healing from one minion if it were a single target ability, not a big deal. Plus it's yasuo, he'll benefit from the stupid tankiness deaths dance gives.
> pplies onhit to the first target hit, plus AoE being reduced healing means hitting three minions with 1 Q gets the same healing from one minion if it were a single target ability, not a big deal. Plus it's yasuo, he'll benefit from the stupid tankiness deaths dance gives. #That's mathematically incorrect. I could hit Q on 3 targets when buying Bloodthirster and get 20% lifesteal on each target instead of 5% with DD. People who upvoted you and yourself don't understand that Yasuo's Q already applies lifesteal with no AoE reduction. Healing with AoE reduction is **factually** worse on him.
Vekkna (NA)
: It doesn't matter when she can build DD and get single-target healing from her passive, W, and on-hits.
she can do that with Gunblade already and doesn't actually buy it
saltran (EUW)
: Except Kai'Sa isn't broken.
https://www.op.gg/champion/kaisa/statistics/bot Then why does she have a 30% pickrate? Champions that are OP have high pickrates around 30% for ADCs and 15% in other lanes.
: I think you mean this legend... {{champion:157}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3080}} {{item:3813}} {{item:3139}} {{item:3006}}
Huh????? Yasuo with DD being changes doesn't change anything. DD sucks on him because his Q and R are AoE.
Infernape (EUW)
: It still has the Phantom hit passive meaning he's still going to be dealing shit tons of true damage. Especially once he gets Bloodrazor and procs Conqueror.
Ok? He was shit doing that 2 patches ago. His core got nerfed, so I think he's going to STILL BE SHIT.
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AirKingNeo

Level 114 (NA)
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