: Azir Gameplay Update: Goals and Directions
> [{quoted}](name=Wav3Break,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=HsZurxEO,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-06-20T05:41:42.449+0000) > > As mentioned by Meddler and a recent Ask Riot, we are currently exploring different update directions for our beloved Shuriman emperor. We are still very early on into the process, but I wanted to communicate what our main goals are and the different paths we are considering to achieve those goals. > > **Goals:** > > * Increase opponent play options when playing against Azir > * Increase Azir’s live ranked performance (buff) > * Preserve his core play pattern of summoning Sand Soldiers and using them as his auto attacks > > Each following direction seeks to increase options when playing against Azir, but makes its own trade offs. > > **Two Major Directions:** > > 1) Reduce Azir’s soldier command range, exposing him to more opponent damage/cc opportunities when he is dealing damage. > > * Ranges would still be decently long, shorter by roughly 15~% is what we'd likely aim for > * Affords his mobility profile remaining similar to live > * Might mean he needs more on-demand survivability > * Is the direction that reduces the most pressure on us to dramatically change functionality on his current spells (might still require some decent changes depending on what we discover though) > > 2) Keep Azir’s live soldier command range, but reduce his mobility profile so he is more easily killed when you do have the tools to close the gap on him. > > * Affords soldiers lasting longer than they currently do > * Most likely means we remove his ability to drift or dash to his soldiers > * Is the direction that restricts Azir to be even more of a back-liner > > Regardless of our choice in direction, we will most likely be buffing Azir’s Sand Soldier stab damage and overall DPS potential. At the same time, we will also be looking for ways to ensure his laning phase is less oppressive when his numbers are tuned up. > > A decently successful mechanic we have tested a bit so far is reducing his Soldier’s AoE damage early game and scaling it back up to 100% by champion level. This means Azir can still have threatening single target damage throughout the match, but less wave control early game. > > Again, we are still very early on into this project, but feedback around these two directions and what you like about the current Azir are all very helpful to us during this stage of development! At the end of the day, we want to deliver an Azir that is exciting to his current players (and potential new ones) that doesn’t warp the meta-game around himself when he is fairly tuned for the average player. I will try to be here often to answer some questions throughout this week as well. Hey man, as an azir main my heart is begging you to keep his skill cap high and don't make him xerath. If you want him to be a backline mage, he will need some self peel that isn't ignored so easily. His ult takes less priority than yasuo windwall and anivia wall right now. Keep his skill floor and skill ceiling high, so I can continue to challenge myself to play this champion. Thanks.
Rioter Comments
: swains = pets acting independantly rumble = a machine doing the continuous automatic thing morg = tether viktor = (assuming its the same ult) a massive pet acting partly on its own. taliyah's does 5 volleys. I'd assume any of these could be interrupted by something as strong as stasis. If you go into stasis before the return animation on ahri's Q for example then it will not return.
> [{quoted}](name=CerealBoxOfDoom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=axt0RFcf,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-28T23:46:38.963+0000) > > swains = pets acting independantly > rumble = a machine doing the continuous automatic thing > morg = tether > viktor = (assuming its the same ult) a massive pet acting partly on its own. > > taliyah's does 5 volleys. I'd assume any of these could be interrupted by something as strong as stasis. If you go into stasis before the return animation on ahri's Q for example then it will not return. Ahri's Q does return in stasis, and in death.
: stasis doesnt technically count as CC though.
> [{quoted}](name=CerealBoxOfDoom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=axt0RFcf,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-12-28T23:40:16.928+0000) > > stasis doesnt technically count as CC though. Swain ult, Rumble flamethrower, Morg Ult, Viktors ult can be controlled, and Anivia ult all break this rule then.
: There's nothing that strange about this. Her Q is designed to shoot a different amount of times depending on where she's standing, it comes as no surprise that zhonyas can interrupt this. Or are you saying that it stops a projectile in midflight? That might actually be bothersome but it doesnt look like you actually said that.
> [{quoted}](name=CerealBoxOfDoom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=axt0RFcf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-12-28T23:36:57.021+0000) > > There's nothing that strange about this. Her Q is designed to shoot a different amount of times depending on where she's standing, it comes as no surprise that zhonyas can interrupt this. Or are you saying that it stops a projectile in midflight? That might actually be bothersome but it doesnt look like you actually said that. Not a single form of CC in the game stops Q. Not suppression , stun, silence.
Rioter Comments
: Why does Zhyona Cancel Taliyah Q?
It invalidates the item, and the outplay it could potentially have when every other champion is allowed to continue their channels. :(
Rioter Comments
: I'm a lvl 6 taliyah. I wouldn't complain about it. When I play taliyah I rush Rod of ages for the mana growth. That definitely helps. It would be kind of broken to have her Q be half mana with one rock on worked ground since it is in such a low cooldown as it's leveled. It's all about balance. Sure it leads to some feel bad moments, but I'd rather that be the issue than a giant nerf.
> [{quoted}](name=Existential Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d0E0RVBh,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-20T05:49:15.470+0000) > > I'm a lvl 6 taliyah. I wouldn't complain about it. When I play taliyah I rush Rod of ages for the mana growth. That definitely helps. It would be kind of broken to have her Q be half mana with one rock on worked ground since it is in such a low cooldown as it's leveled. It's all about balance. Sure it leads to some feel bad moments, but I'd rather that be the issue than a giant nerf. Taliyah is, at the moment, the single worst control mage in league of legends. This would not break her at all, instead it would provide usability to an otherwise weak champion.
Rioter Comments
Borbland (EUW)
: No, it is not a shit ability, it is a valuable escape and an important combo setter. The bonus health scaling always was a bit useless, since the only way to use it was either by playing full tank Azir (No need to say this is ineffective), or a tiny boost if you bought Rylai's or/and Rod of Ages on him. No the problem here, is that they realize only now that Azir actually never had any scaling on his shield, and instead of fixing it just simply remove it.
> [{quoted}](name=Borbland,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j22Bw0Tc,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-12-17T11:04:04.784+0000) > > No, it is not a shit ability, it is a valuable escape and an important combo setter. > > The bonus health scaling always was a bit useless, since the only way to use it was either by playing full tank Azir (No need to say this is ineffective), or a tiny boost if you bought Rylai's or/and Rod of Ages on him. > > No the problem here, is that they realize only now that Azir actually never had any scaling on his shield, and instead of fixing it just simply remove it. I've known, and many azir mains have known its been bugged for a while. Shield alwyas stays at base value.
: The reasoning behind the E change on Azir is disgusting.
Rioter Comments
: Taliyah's Balance State @Riot
Just looking for a rioter to speak on direction of her, or if shes gonna be left in her current state.
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Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Alamander,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5aFbTMzP,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-07-24T20:29:05.336+0000) > > I understand why it was initially needed, but can we at least put her as a non outlier when it comes to base AD? No, putting her as a non-outlier would give her massive damage autoattacks that stack up to being the most damaging level one autoatttacks in the game and **on a ranged champion.** The results would be stupidly ridiculous.
> [{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5aFbTMzP,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-07-24T20:39:53.490+0000) > > No, putting her as a non-outlier would give her massive damage autoattacks that stack up to being the most damaging level one autoatttacks in the game and **on a ranged champion.** > > The results would be stupidly ridiculous. -5 from base passive, +5 to base AD. Proper Balance means a non-needed statistical outlier.
: Orianna Base AD
Then adjust the passive to balance it. 0 point in having a statistical outlier due to poor wording on the passive. 5+15% and give her +5 base AD. Just makes more sense.
Rioter Comments
: Why the Constant Azir Attention?
A lot of his issues are created because he can skate by without having to buy a core mana item, which makes him spike a lot harder than other mids at the 20 minute mark. I dont see that these changes address any of that however.
Rioter Comments
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: Nerf swain to the ground. He is rarely played, but when played correctly, he is like having your tonsils removed with a big black.. spoon.
> [{quoted}](name=xD lel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JBxosVkY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-28T20:23:15.281+0000) > > Nerf swain to the ground. He is rarely played, but when played correctly, he is like having your tonsils removed with a big black.. spoon. If they want to change swain to make him less smash or get smashed, they could do a LOT of things to make his kit healthier.. none of which are based around his W :P
: Context of the Swain Nerf : A swain main since season 1's analysis..
At least quinns vision is a 2 second reduction at level 1 kappa. Gotta keep that ADC utility. The balancing here is making very little sense.
SouL1ess (NA)
: 1.6/1.7/1.8/1.9/2 seconds at respective ranks Like Elise's stun
> [{quoted}](name=SouL1ess,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JBxosVkY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-28T20:13:19.768+0000) > > 1.6/1.7/1.8/1.9/2 seconds at respective ranks > > Like Elise's stun 100% is a better way to balance. 1 second delay for a 1 second snare is just kappa man. Birds got enough weaknesses.
Rioter Comments
: I agree, I feel like they could have at least allowed her new R+E to deal damage for a % of her shield, would have been nice.
> [{quoted}](name=KingKold93,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YpQQ1MYA,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2015-10-18T21:48:19.256+0000) > > I agree, I feel like they could have at least allowed her new R+E to deal damage for a % of her shield, would have been nice. Yeah, though the current iteration of her shield is pretty powerful for team peeling.
: I doubt they'd do flat ap, but perhaps they could let her have a little bonus damage based on her missing hp. That wouldn't be unfair, not by the game's current standards.
> [{quoted}](name=KingKold93,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YpQQ1MYA,comment-id=00050002,timestamp=2015-10-18T21:39:55.835+0000) > > I doubt they'd do flat ap, but perhaps they could let her have a little bonus damage based on her missing hp. That wouldn't be unfair, not by the game's current standards. I think any of these are good ideas. Thanks for the support as we push to get a red response.
: To be honest, if they had left the damage on her R+E she would be fine. I would be all for moving her passive if it meant she could have something a little more defining in her kit. I would even support giving her mantra slightly higher CD for a little more power in those moments, maybe in the form of giving her ult stacks or just making her mini ults more ult-like.
> [{quoted}](name=KingKold93,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YpQQ1MYA,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-10-18T21:17:15.951+0000) > > To be honest, if they had left the damage on her R+E she would be fine. I would be all for moving her passive if it meant she could have something a little more defining in a her kit. I would even support giving her mantra slightly higher CD for a little more power in those moments, maybe in the form of giving her ult stacks or just making her mini ults more ult-like. True, and removing the damage from her kit really needed to allow something else to appear. She solidified as a shielding mage with the extra shield buff, but lost something of a power spike.
Hupsis (EUNE)
: I am open to any passive changes that may make her worthy of picking over other champions :) Mana regen addition might not do it alone. Adding damage to her kit also has a risk of making her extremely annoying to deal with when she's fed. It could be something that makes her interact with an ally when they are low on health. How about her passive allowing W to be cast on an ally below 20% of their max health to give that target her own health up until both have the same %-amount of health or Karma has 50% of her health left. This effect could have a cooldown of 2 minutes or so. This would at least help her in bot lane where she needs the help the most.
> [{quoted}](name=Vonler,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YpQQ1MYA,comment-id=00010001000000000001,timestamp=2015-10-18T21:15:14.308+0000) > > I am open to any passive changes that may make her worthy of picking over other champions :) > > Mana regen addition might not do it alone. Adding damage to her kit also has a risk of making her extremely annoying to deal with when she's fed. > > It could be something that makes her interact with an ally when they are low on health. How about her passive allowing W to be cast on an ally below 20% of their max health to give that target her own health up until both have the same %-amount of health or Karma has 50% of her health left. This effect could have a cooldown of 2 minutes or so. > This would at least help her in bot lane where she needs the help the most. Awesome. I hope to have your continued support as i push to get a small passive change to karma! I do like your ideas as well. A lot of good possibilities. Adding utility could be cool, but I think that goes more into the design of her primary 3 skills, which i do kinda support.
: She's actually in a very healthy state. Nothing toxic or OP about a generic Q-spam mage. . .
> [{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YpQQ1MYA,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-10-18T21:06:28.775+0000) > > She's actually in a very healthy state. > Nothing toxic or OP about a generic Q-spam mage. . . Kappachino
: Indecently, Karma *had* an identity. But Riot did away with that when they replaced her with Skarma.
> [{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YpQQ1MYA,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-18T21:03:22.575+0000) > > Indecently, Karma *had* an identity. > > But Riot did away with that when they replaced her with Skarma. I think they are only a tweek or two off of having a champion that is both unique and healthy :D
: I think she should get more AP the less health she has. Really fits her balance theme. Kappa.
> [{quoted}](name=Ayketh,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YpQQ1MYA,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-10-18T20:52:35.844+0000) > > I think she should get more AP the less health she has. Really fits her balance theme. Kappa. The good ole days keppo
: I think she needs a hard CC and dmg amplifier to her kit. I still think her mantra-ed shield should knock back enemies slightly (like Riven's Q). As for the passive, I think something along the lines of having her damage increased when the target is slowed or when she's hasted would be fine with me. That should give her kit synergy and a reliable way of dealing damage.
> [{quoted}](name=Ionian StarChild,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YpQQ1MYA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-10-18T20:37:12.922+0000) > > I think she needs a hard CC and dmg amplifier to her kit. I still think her mantra-ed shield should knock back enemies slightly (like Riven's Q). As for the passive, I think something along the lines of having her damage increased when the target is slowed or when she's hasted would be fine with me. That should give her kit synergy and a reliable way of dealing damage. I think that would break Karma as a champion. she has unreliable secondary CC and that's a cool mechanic (IMO). It's great for peeling and kiting. Her damage is actually pretty high throughout the entire game as well. I think that her 3 mantra'd skills are in a pretty healthy spot atm, which is why i went the route of Passive vs Mantra.
Hupsis (EUNE)
: I wouldn't say she lacks an identity. The reason why she doesn't have a clear identity is because of mantra. Instead of having a defining ultimate, she has three ultimates. Her identity is a mage that can cope to many different situations. She's able to do alot of things but nothing she does is extremely overwhelming. Her passive is a huge factor in her kit. It basically makes her a battle mage that wants to have skirmishes. When you have a not so overwhelming ult but allow the user to cast those ults often, they become quite impressive.
> [{quoted}](name=Vonler,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YpQQ1MYA,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2015-10-18T20:29:28.406+0000) > > I wouldn't say she lacks an identity. > > The reason why she doesn't have a clear identity is because of mantra. Instead of having a defining ultimate, she has three ultimates. Her identity is a mage that can cope to many different situations. She's able to do alot of things but nothing she does is extremely overwhelming. > > Her passive is a huge factor in her kit. It basically makes her a battle mage that wants to have skirmishes. When you have a not so overwhelming ult but allow the user to cast those ults often, they become quite impressive. I agree and disagree. I play a lot of karma in R5's because she is very efficient and Lulu is often priority picked or banned. In that sense she is okay as both a secondary and a flex pick. I mean more of "I pick Karma because...." That's a sentence i struggle to finish. Her in game identity is not defined --> Other champions who are not 'battlemages' do the 'battlemage' role better (See Lulu, Orianna, even Kayle or Swain). She isn't a poke mage, cannot hard initiate, has secondary follow up cc, along with peel that is equal or lesser than her utility mid counterparts. I just cannot see a realistic reason for keeping the passive where it is and not attaching it to her R. We're not talking about any groundbreaking passive here, just something to help establish why someone would pick karma over the 100+ other champions in league. Almost every other champion has this, Karma should be no different.
Hupsis (EUNE)
: Instant karma :D She does seem to be in a balanced state but still people don't play her. Giving her an "actual" passive might make her more popular while also solving some of her problems. Although there are other ways to make her popular. I like your suggestion because of the mana regen. I don't think a masochist passive would be her thing though. I'd suggest that her passive stayed as it is and her mantra got an addition "if an activated mantra is not used, Karma will regenerate x mana when mantra expires".
> [{quoted}](name=Vonler,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YpQQ1MYA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-18T17:29:04.309+0000) > > Instant karma :D > > She does seem to be in a balanced state but still people don't play her. Giving her an "actual" passive might make her more popular while also solving some of her problems. Although there are other ways to make her popular. > > I like your suggestion because of the mana regen. I don't think a masochist passive would be her thing though. > > I'd suggest that her passive stayed as it is and her mantra got an addition "if an activated mantra is not used, Karma will regenerate x mana when mantra expires". She's in a healthy state for sure, but she doesn't have an identity. Right now she just feels like a less safe , less effective version of Lulu. She lacks an identity.
: No thanks. Although her passive is really meh, she's had one overhaul and a mini rework, that's enough for me. (This is coming from a 500+ game Karma main) Also, we all know Riot would fuck it up and she'd become 100% pick/ban and then get nerfed into oblivion.
> [{quoted}](name=karma or feed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YpQQ1MYA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-10-18T19:37:26.239+0000) > > No thanks. Although her passive is really meh, she's had one overhaul and a mini rework, that's enough for me. (This is coming from a 500+ game Karma main) > Also, we all know Riot would fuck it up and she'd become 100% pick/ban and then get nerfed into oblivion. Also when they rework something, they should be following through until they are at a healthier state. Right now she's just a worse version of many other champions.
: Karma Passive/Ult Discussion. Red Response Requested
I'm asking for a little more complexity to her choice making. Hopefully this could be addressed from her passive being slightly tweeked to create more interesting scenarios and choices. My suggested passive is just something i drew up in a few minutes, but I don't see any reason to not combine the passive her R into one ability and create more depth to the champion. Right now good karma's can dominate a game, but the kit could use a little something to fix how linear it can be. A skill heavy passive would go a long way to making this champion as good of a pick as other champions who do her job just a bit better.
Rioter Comments
: Losing MMR for winning games?
," and even though its an estimate, " reading comprehension pls
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Rioter Comments
: Lol saying lvl 14 is intermediate skill level lmao.
> [{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AWobEWi6,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-04-22T04:57:43.290+0000) > > Lol saying lvl 14 is intermediate skill level lmao. Step off homie.
: Ranged Champions
Caitlyn will out range the rest of them, Brand and MF suffer the same weakness of being mid range with a serious lacking in the 'disengage' department. That stated all champions are strong if you take the time to learn them. Whoever you 'Feel' like you're going to like best :)
: [WILL PAY] - Looking for a Diamond+ Coach for myself and my duo partner.
Currently coach 2 teams, including a collegiate league. If you feel like contacting me, I can provide alternate references. IGN Alamander. Best of luck and hopefully you find what you are looking for.
: ❅ Holiday skins! What would you want to see? ❅
Naughty List Nautilus: Coal bag, bunch of christmas stuff... the word play is just too good to not do something with it.
: Quick Cassiopeia update re: pbe and 4.21
" Abandon the "AP Marksmen Hyper-Carry" approach because it's not what Cassiopeia is and because it is flawed at it's very core. Remake her into someone with more focus on zoning and AoE Poison. THAT was a niche that only Cassiopeia provided. " Repost for hopefully someone to see. Her core has changed severely.
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Alamander

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