mack9112 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KWZTWzUL,comment-id=0013000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-09T18:12:19.299+0000) > > how is it fair to have any conversation about game balance when people have not played the game in months.
Simple, maybe they watched someone play in person or on stream. Pretty easy to tell the state of the game by watching it honestly.
Srycro (EUW)
: Dealing almost irrelevant dmg to poppy.
Hibeki (NA)
: I like how nocturne was considered unviable, had his items nerfed, and the most minor buffs in the game and now hes opop
Because they didn't change the jungle, runes, and loads of other stuff. The game changes so fast there is probably OP shit people don't even know about yet. This isn't surprising at all in league. Hell, it happens all the time.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: We're buffing AD Varus, how about nerfing AP Varus?
AP Varus has been a thing for a long time. I remember people playing it in dominion. It always had pretty good burst but was just harder to pull off than on hit or straight AD. Pretty sure it doesnt need nerfed though. That Varus is an item and probably levels ahead in that game.
: “Day 100” {{champion:82}} : I waited longer {{champion:32}} : I’m still worse {{champion:36}} : I was till I got buffed
Morde has been solid for a while now
: > [{quoted}](name=Nea104,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oWouOfOT,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-07-11T11:51:48.342+0000) > > Same as for poor Gragas {{champion:79}} , around 45% since... Forever. > > It's so weird they let this happen for so long, not caring at all. Eh, when Gragas is strong, he's -really- fucking strong. Honestly all they need to do is nerf his burst damage and give him some tankier stats, because as is he just does too much of everything. He can zone. He's got mobility. He's long ranged. He's got burst. He's bruiser-tankish in terms of durability. He has fucktons of CC on basically everything. Even his auto attacks hurt. And his ulti is damn near undodgable with how fast it is, unless you are a god with flash.
His ulti isnt even as good as it use to be. It was harder to dodge before.
: ***
Bottom line is there have been legit posts and it just doesnt matter. Riot has designs for the game. Regular player posts dont factor in that much. When those posts dont get a response this is what you get. The only way to get a reaponse is to just stop playing when it turns into something you dont enjoy. The forum is more for players to communicate with each other about the game than directly with riot.
Ifneth (NA)
: I recommend leaving the boards rather than the game. They seem to have filled your mind with tilt, salt, and memes. 1) This is tilt. Instead of playing back when behind, you get frustrated and just keep moving up. Then you get all-in’d by multiple enemy players and die pretty fast. So you blame the game. 2) This is a meme. Live design wants to prevent a waveclear+scaling meta where teams wait for 40 minutes to actually play League of Legends, with the game being decided by one misplay or bad teamfight. 3) Another meme. This is literally the “fire the balance team” one. There’s not much more to say, other than it being Masters and Challenger players who spend all day on the game. If you wanna talk rank, they know the game better. 4) Yet another meme, where the player blames “Runes Reforged” for everything. In reality, it finally gave players clear choices in matchups, and although the meta choices are pretty good, every high elo player I watch customizes theirs before each game. 5) This time, it’s salt. RNG has been part of this game since the beginning, and it’s actually been toned down in many places. No more Dodge, for example. But if it doesn’t go your way, then you blame the game. 6) More salt. I love the flashy kits, and so do the other players who use them. They’re way more fun to play as and against than, say, Udyr running at you and right-clicking. This ties into Point 1, where you’re getting caught out and players are punishing you for it. 7) Dead meme does not die. Waveclear is fine, with perhaps Talon+Tiamat+Rake being an offender. Players have been ripping through waves for years once laning ends. Finally, as another poster has mentioned, post your main account if you claim to be Diamond 2 100 LP. Claiming that you “have many accounts” isn’t cutting it. Don’t lie.
Why would someone keep playing a game they don't enjoy anymore? And honestly who cares what rank they are. Hell, I havent played in months. After watching streams of people stomping with AP tryndamere by running smite using the gold funnel strat I dont see why I would want to play. OP has some points and while you may disagree and that is fine. Other people agree with them. A lot of streamers and high elo players dont play as much or at all.
Nipsahoy (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=l Ryden l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vhdgT42g,comment-id=0030,timestamp=2018-07-03T00:59:47.899+0000) > > I get that people say that damage is so high, but if damage is high, then you should be doing just as much damage as them? Right? > > **BUT DON'T TELL ME!** > > "There damage is high-**ER!**" > > And as far as I can tell from your 6 pixel by 2 pixel .gif, you're a Jhin who's in Nocturne's vision. That's basically asking to get one shot, c'mon dude, you're ~~Diamond~~ **Ex**-Diamond, this is what Nocturne does, you should know that. The point he's making is no champ should do that. I don't understand what people don't get about that. How is it okay for him to die with 0 counterplay. Like to me that's the problem with this game entirely. They claim ok we have to nerf marksmen because they do too much damage and it's unfair. So they nerf them and now most of them suck unless they get 3-4 items yet some champs just take their place deleting you in 1 seconds with minimal counterplay yet the champs doing it now have more mobility and more gap closers and more survivability. I mean if champs that can engage from 1 screen away can do it then there's 0 reason that marksmen shouldn't be able to still.
Burst has existed in this game similar to this for quite some time. And even when it wasnt burst it was being killed with no recourse. At a certain point you are bitching about league being league. And That probably means you should take a break. Especially when the OP is complaining about a win.
: > [{quoted}](name=fallenreaper88,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hGusAHLJ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-03T06:41:43.364+0000) > > Can we just go back to no more mid patch updates. They seem to do more harm than good. Agree, so agree maybe just stop giving random buffs cause someone cry in damn forum and give it two weeks before buffing thing up or they just good at mid patch buffing yet champion like {{champion:56}} who is busted right now take ages to get nerfs ?
Rexxiee (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MAgijO9p,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-25T05:33:19.175+0000) > > Because he is a squishy, non mobile, skill shot reliant, no sustain of any kind burst caster. He gets stupid amounts of damage because that is literally all he has. He doesn't get to skitter around the battlefield like Ahri, all his damage is upfront and no constant damage like Vlad or Swain, he is skillshot reliant and no, just because two of his abilities are point and click doesn't mean he isn't, every Brand knows that if you don't land your pillar, you are HEAVILY hampering your DPS, and also squishy. He has clear defined flaws that showcase why he has the upsides he has. Go look at his wr and pick rate bro The champ just destroys everything that goes bot lane now, so much hes even being picked as an "adc".
Yeah that 50.21% winrate at 6% pickrate as a support is insane right. Oh and lets not forget his 45.7% winrate mid. Yeah, needs heavy nerfs for sure.
: In bot lane? Maybe. Not overall. It has a good way to go to see variety/diversity as a whole in the LCK and LPL. **LCK Summer 2018 has seen 56 champs so far.** http://www.gamesoflegends.com/tournament/stats.php?id=LCK%20Summer%202018 **LCK Spring 2018 has seen 85.** http://www.gamesoflegends.com/tournament/stats.php?id=LCK%20Spring%202018 **LPL Summer: **58 **LPL Spring: **96 Currently sitting at 141. By nerfing the ADC in this manner, you are really indirectly removing a good portion of the eSports fan base. I wonder how the NFL and MLB would be if they removed the pitcher role, the quarterback, or goalies from the World Cup? I mean, it gets boring when a good goalie keeps stopping the other team from scoring. Let's just get rid of it. /kappa The game rarely takes any strategic planning now. It's just a clown fiesta, much like the decision to make MSI a volatile Round Robin. But I guess that's what Riot wants and the casters just eat it up because they get to spend more time **screaming** now. **Much like their Aatrox rework.** Let's make everything volatile so we can finally see our golden child, the NA region actually win Worlds for once right? I feel like the people who like this change are the ones that play Call of Duty just for Nuketown.
They are playing a role and can easily play other types of champs. Every other position plays completely different types of champs and it is fine. How is it all of a sudden not okay for the adc role to do the same thing? They didn't remove the role at all.
Vlada Cut (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EgaEq19W,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-08T12:27:21.363+0000) > > i dont think we need another tank juggernaut running around. chogath was already bullshit enough. > > if poppy is still trash after 8.12, then fine. buff her. but id rather they wait until they see what the itemization changes do for her. > > it may be even neccessary to change some of her scalings to ap. otherwise it could get a bit crazy with her. I was joking lol. But I would like to see how strong her q will be now that full tank Poppy can buy a tank item that actually give's her ad.
Pretty sure the old OP Poppy wouldn't even be that strong in the games current state.
: See, one thing hasn't changed about League: change. League having large patches with a high impact is what set it apart from it's competitors and that hasn't changed until now. If you grew to dislike change then you simply grew to dislike the game because constant change is inherent to what League is. As a wise bug once said > change is good
The substantial changes seem to be occurring much more frequently. I don't know anyone that plays anymore. Specifically because they got tired of having to stay on top of the changes to be competitive. They all play fortnite now like pretty much everyone else. I haven't played in a few months and the game is a lot different just in that time. The changes don't make me want to play again. I'm not even interested in trying them out because it isn't anything appealing. It's just riot making changes to force people to play the game in a certain way.
: I feel like most of the people that complain about League are actively trying to NOT have fun
A lot of people have moved on. I don't know anyone that plays this game anymore. And I haven't played one game this season. Honestly can't remember when my last game was. I do agree that complaining is pointless. Just dont play it.
: Play off meta, have some fun
If you want to be a trend setter you wouldn't be playing this game
: But shes balanced... She only has a winrate above 50% in Diamond. Want to know what champ has a similar or higher winrate in every skill bracket than Zoe? Thats right. {{champion:266}} https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/diamond/plus/champion/Aatrox/ He has a higher winrate in every bracket except diamond in which case hes only down .4%
To be fair, their pick rate isn't even in the same ballpark. It's hard to compare winrates when the pick rate is so different.
: Where are you getting the winrate statistics?
: Assuming full kit unload. - {{champion:142}} 987.5 + 2.7 (1 passive proc, no W) - 14 bubble - 925 range (bubble cast + AoE) - {{champion:99}} 1970 + 8.25AP (4 passive procs) - 50 ult CD (25 with refund) - 1175 range (Binding and slow cast + AoE) - {{champion:101}} 2110 + 4.25AP (land all 5 of ult) - 100 ult CD - 1050 range (stun) - {{champion:115}} 2045 + 5.1AP (all mines and 3 passive procs) - 90 ult CD - 900 range (Minefield) - {{champion:143}} 3982 + 6.0AP (7 seconds un-enraged plant damage)) - 110 ult CD - ~850 range (Estimated ult cast + AoE) Zoe's 2 skill combo (3 counting ult) does about half as much damage as a full unload from other artillery mages (Zyra is weird). And she does it: 1.78 times per lux unload (with refund) 3.57 times oer lux unload (without refund) 6.42 times per Ziggs unload. 7.14 times per Xerath unload. 7.85 times per Zyra ult. This is where I have a problem with artillery mage comparison. She can unload faster and more often for significantly more DPS than an artillery mage can put out. She's on the low end of their range spectrum but leans significantly more towards burst mage.
Bârd (NA)
: {{champion:142}} is a burst champion. The {{champion:142}} in this game was very fed and very farmed. {{champion:81}} is a squishy champion. The {{champion:81}} in this game was behind. When this happens, one-shots can happen. This is not exclusive to {{champion:142}} {{champion:4}} https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx6kpS-TN_s {{champion:245}} https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtcOqiupDvI& {{champion:107}} https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S70jbTg2pr4 {{champion:412}} https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-nDfIBdjN8 {{champion:32}} https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqzUdErELrQ {{champion:432}} https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibc3vnSJUBQ {{champion:20}} https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4-vkWDAIMI
Cool, now how many of those were in a pro game....oh none of them. I wonder why that is?
: How come everyone is up in arms about Zoe but not about Brand?
First off, Brand's winrate is quite a bit lower. Probably where he should be. Zoe can one shot with one spell at a certain point. She can dodge things with her ult and increase her range. It makes her harder to punish. Brand is immobile. Easier to lock down and just dies when that happens. Zoe has access to extra summoners making that potentially more difficult. She can also farm and harass from a safer distance. Brand has to use multiple abilities to do damage and the enemy team needs to clump up. Zoe is primarily a poke mage. They are nothing alike and play completely different. She stays back and just pokes and throws out her sleep until it hits. If Brand walks up to E someone he can't just teleport away. He can easily be jumped on or just take a crit to the face from an ADC. Brand is solid right now but to say he is like Zoe is crazy. Also, if Brand hits a W you are still alive and free to fight back or move away. With Zoe sleep you are normally blowing a summoner or dead. He's good but lets be real here.
: Yeah no shit, Ezreal is garbage and they're horribly behind. That's why they couldn't get it together and win. But their teamfight comp is 10x better than the other team's even if it's not perfect. The other team have a fucking Pantheon at 34 minutes. All of their gold is invested in Diana. What the hell are they gonna do against a good Malphite ult on 3 people plus Illaoi and Xerath with AoE? If Diana dies right off the bat, the team is pretty much down on gold. Ezreal and Pantheon are useless, and the rest of the fight is 4v3 with an Illaoi and probably a gold advantage with Diana dead. It's possible without a throw, just a big outplay. They just weren't able to pull off any outplays big enough to cover the big disadvantage.
Dude, Xayah is farmed. Thresh can just lock people down for her and they can kite out the team if they don't just steam roll them. Who is going to kill Xayah? No one, Malph ult wont' do it either. Then you have the problem of the Yi with ult just cleaning up after they blow their load. You can kill Diana. Thresh and Xayah will be more of a problem in a team fight. Odds are Diana is gonna kill someone instantly before or as she dies anyway. And if Diana dies they aren't down gold. Xayah is at 3 items and will do a ton of damage. Yi is sitting on 4 complete damage items and they have a thresh with locket and redemption. Sorry but I'll take that any day over the OP's comp. If you think the OP's team has a better team fight then go ahead but you are crazy.
Arammus (EUW)
: which i still dont get. to proc his w it requires you to hit q or e (or r?) which is VERY SLOW! and the range of them is meh. if the team doesnt cuddle, you'll never hit all 3 marked targets.
You can proc it with an instant q. That doesn't take very long. And his w is also on hit damage which when paired with other on hit ends up being pretty solid damage that is hard to itemize against. He also adds some cc to the team. He is on hit because his AD ratios and damage on his Q were nerfed and it's just better with the new runes. This isn't even a new build. It was good in prior seasons as well.
: Insane teamfight comp, with both Malphite and Illaoi, great poke, nice mixed damage/tankiness, and all champions scale well. Meanwhile the enemy team have Pantheon in the late game, and most of the rest of the enemy's kills are on one person (Diana). Kill lead isn't too bad either. You can win. But you didn't, I guess.
Dude their team comp is garbage in a team fight. They have malph ult and xerath stun as their only real cc. Ezreal is behind with a horrible build. I mean Xayah can avoid the malph ult easily and its gg after that. They don't even have enough cc to deal with Yi. Also kill lead isn't everything. Level lead is huge along with cs. They have a poke comp with no peal which can easily be run down and crushed by the other team comp. You can say any game is winnable I guess. Maybe they dc or throw insanely hard. But to say have a good team fight comp is funny.
Don Lupus (EUW)
: At first sight, the change is good, as you don't have to buy sightstone early. But well ... the rest of the game is super boring now, without being able to build an icon that has an interesting passive. Now, after you've built the vision-item from your starting item, you have Ardent, Solaris and Redemption. Apart form that, you can chose from the lackluster offer of AP or Tank items. The role just got nerfed so hard. Especially Frost Queens "Twin Shadow" active made for some interesting gameplay situations. Don't know if it actually nerfed them, it just made the role less interesting (coming from a support main)
Twin shadows was not interesting gameplay. It was do I need to scout my enemy? Do I need to slow my enemy? If yes press this button. No aiming no nothing really. It just made the job easier with the click of a button. I wouldn't call it interesting.
: > [{quoted}](name=H1 H0w are Ya,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HJurcMNy,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-01-24T20:01:29.843+0000) > > If it is a support item and you are using it on jungle udyr then arent you abusing it as well? no cause for UDYR you dont care for the extra damage you care for the slow and with the combination of the slow rune that make paths of ice when you slow someone with an active item it was a niche build to help you escape every time you were split pushing... Evelynn was abusing it for the extra damage on her Q and gold generation with her Q... So no udyr wasnt abuse it because it was a niche gameplay
No one bought it for damage. Everyone got it for gold income, slow/vision.
Emikzen (EUW)
: Yea Poppy was a bit of a bad example but even so, she's doing more than she should atm in terms of damage.
Honestly poppy was much stronger damage wise when she was rocking pre nerf sunfire and iceborn a couple seasons ago. Well maybe she was just doing more damage compared to everyone else back then. But she definitely isnt at that level right now. She is honestly fine right now. Probably her most balanced state.
: It really isn't a cancer item AT ALL. It gives you very, very periodic, risky, and conditional protection. Remember, using it stops you from doing ANYTHING, that includes moving, casting, or having allies cast spells on you. I can't count how many times I've simply just waited for enemies to wear out of their Zhonya's and then destroyed them. It requires the utmost precision and a lot of faith in your team to prevent you from dying on the spot once it wears off. It isn't remotely cancerous compared to items that offer constant, always-on effects that make champions always broken, like the early days of Frozen Mallet and Rylai's.
It allows you to completely negate an ultimate or other burst/engage. It can turn a fight or stop a tower dive. Its probably to strong for a rune. And pro play will probably show this. Really its nice to be able to make tower dives more difficult but there are better ways imo. I mean if you only use it like an idiot right before you die anyway then it's not so bad. Lets just pretend some people actually use it intelligently.
: > [{quoted}](name=Usernamehere1235,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7T49kb1y,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-01-12T02:01:54.933+0000) > > I'm going to disagree with this post, and I might say some things which sound mean, but really are not ill-intended. > > I think that the problem you have with vision comes with the misconception that support isn't a fun and unique role BECAUSE of the need for vision. I can already tell you from the beginning line that you have largely if not completely miss-assessed my position and intentions in regards to the support role. >I think that you're idea to remove Sightstone is more of a thought that comes from inexperience, and low-elo experience (and I'm not saying this to be mean, I will explain what I mean). Yea, you just confirm'd my original suppositions. Also, i don't believe you. Let me make it clear that no. You are wrong. Sightstone's issues aren't arguable. My stance on the item has nothing to do with my personal opinion of the item or how i feel of it personally. The issues of the item are inarguable facts. Sightstone from a game design standpoint exists as a way for Riot to gate the bulk of the vision on the team on 1 player, as a necessity because if everyone had equal reason to get Sightstone and its breadth of wards, vision would be utterly broken. Whatsmore is having vision gated behind 1 player allows them to better control the "levers" of the vision game so to speak. There is nothing inherently intrinsic to warding and the support role beyond the Support role from a fundamental standpoint. The Support role exists with the purpose of being as useful as possible while making due with the least as possible. Since there are 3 lanes and 1 jungle, and 5 players, 1 lane by necessity has to have at least more than 1 person. Therefore it is far more efficient to have the fifth player be the guy who works on a limited budget and feed the entire lanes source of income to the 4th player instead, because having 4 well-fed players and 1 underfed one is better than having 3 fed players and 2 malnurited ones, especially with how gold dependent the ADC is. **That's what the Support role is at its core.** Your worth as a support is propositional to how much burden you can take off your teams shoulders. And so sightstone , being stupidly powerful but terribly slot inefficient, is put on the support because it is the most efficient way to access and use the power of the vision it provides. Sightstone itself isn't compelling, fun or even unique or engaging an item. It exists and is bought as a necessity, and little else. Now that I've given you a bit of a refresher/history lesson, i just want to open a capsule here to say, none of this is really relevant or important to the grand scheme of my post here, so i fail to see why you are even making this post outside of personal posturing. > Vision is something that has been core to support as a role for a long time, but I'd argue that vision fundamentally has become less of a support-only job over the few years. Vision has never been intrinsic to the Support role. Vision was designed as a team wide endeavor. It simply became defaulted to the support via the meta because funneling the bulk of the expenses of warding to the one player was far more efficient. Sightstone was then introduced to make the burden on the Support less bad until Season 4 where wards were removed entirely in favor of trinkets to make warding more team oriented . as well as balance the vision game ( since literally the only thing making vision balanced to any degree back then was the player base' own unwillingness to ward in the first place, lol) as it was intended, and Sightstone was kept as a crutch because they realized that they still needed a way to condense gate vision. There is nothing truly linking the support role to vision fundamentally. If Sightstone was a good item that was interesting to buy, everyone would buy it. The reason it is exists, the reason it bought is because it needs to be. Not having Sightstone is an inherent handicap because of the power its vision provides. Making someone that isn't the support buy it is a handicap to their builds than just making the support buy it. Supports wouldn't change at all if warding were magically made the Junglers job for example. It's just no one is gonna do it because it is strictly not as effective. > There are a few reasons; vision elixirs were removed from the game, same with regular wards. As well, trinkets were added to the game, which means everyone shares at least some part in vision. There's also a limit on warding, meaning that other roles do need to contribute, and lastly control wards are stronger and cheaper than they were in the past. Dude Ive been playing since late Season 2. I don't understand why you'd instantly assume I must've started this game yesterday beyond some vein attempt at propping yourself up. > Now, support as a role has objectively become more unique item-wise since season 2. If you watch a season 2 competitive match, you'll notice that supports will often never complete more than three items at most. Most of their inventory is dedicated to oracle and pinks/greens. Once sightstone was introduced, you'd see them rush that as well. In the current meta, supports have far more items which they can buy, from lvl 1 to lvl 18, all of which provide fairly interesting and dynamic actives. The support items are a part of this, but aren't really interesting purchases anymore because fundamentally they don't provide awesome actives like other support items do. They're less impactful, as well. yea. I know. I was there. I played it. i lived it. I was there. > Firstly, I'd argue that vision is a core gameplay mechanic to supports. Well you'd be wrong. >The reason why specifically low elo players don't really care for vision is because to them, it really isn't as impactful. It's harder for low elo players, even up to platinum, to effectively place, and use vision (there are a plethora of reasons for this, map awareness, lack of game sense and knowledge, etc.). I do care about vision tho. Im a damn support main. I've made peace with that a long time ago. Can you go look for somewhere else to posture please? > Secondly, I'd argue that because of all of the other interesting support items that now exist, that support as a role is far more impactful in an active sense than it ever has before. Who said otherwise? Im beginning to wonder if you ever even read the whole post. >I'd almost go as far as to say the support role is broken because of how strong these characters can be, specifically because of how cheap and effective the items they buy are. Im aware. I've been saying this since the beginning of last season. This isn't even a nerf tho. i'd argue its a buff purely from a statistical perspective. The problem is that this change is bad because it makes the support role less enjoyable and compelling, not whether it make sit weaker or stronger. > I think that Riot is trying to actively balance support through vision and itemization, and I think that's the best option, because that is historically what the support role has always been about. And it's not because Riot deemed the role to be so; it's because that's the most optimal strategy in League of Legends. No. What Riot is doing it shoehorning Sightstone into a place wher eit feels more intrinsic to the role and less of a forced arbitrary burden. Currently there is little to no reason you would actually want to buy Sightstone as an item outside of the knowledge that someone has to because of how impactful and powerful it is, and that as the support, you are the one that is expected to do so. it's a crutch and chore by design, and from a game design perspective it is incredibly flawed, and Riot is aware of that. By introducing the EYE items, Riot introduced an alternative, but that wasn't good enough, because you still had to make the arbitrary choice of buying Sightstone out of necessity for the team as opposed to because it compliments your champion in a way that helps you win. Again, if the job of Sightstone carrier were magically ok on any other role without negatively impacting them, that role would do it. The only reason the support is left with it is because its simply more efficient. SOMEBODY has to carry it and it's simply better if the support does it than the ADC. With this change, the idea is now there is no sense of "being forced to buy this deadweight for arbitrary reasons" because you aren't actually physically "buying" it now. The problem is all the changes they made in the wake of doing so outweigh the positives of the change. In the process of doing so, the option of actives on top of support quest buffs were removed and all the depth and nuance it the choosing of support starter items has been removed. > My opinion is that support as role needed a nerf, and I think this is a slight nerf. it isn't tho. Supports will now be getting their core items even faster now. >What I do agree with, is that this does take away options from the support. But I think you underestimate just how powerful vision really is, and just how impactful it is at the highest level. I suggest you reread my post because i make it more than clear that i am are how powerful vision is. if it wasn't powerful, Sightstone would never be bought in the first place, nor would it be a mandatory purchase every game. >Just the fact that supports get sightstone makes them one of most powerful roles in the game, if used properly. No it doesn't. All it does is make them incredibly important. What makes supports so powerful is how much they bolster and influence the game as a whole, and how much freedom and agency they have in their ability to do so due to not having to do things like manage upkeep of farming minions, and how they have some of the most powerful force enabling abilities bar none. > I'd love to have a discussion, so if you have any counter-arguments, please respond. {{champion:33}} ok just read the above.
Thats a lot of words just saying you're wrong to someone because you say so.
: > [{quoted}](name=CoffeeMug,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7T49kb1y,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2018-01-12T10:36:45.804+0000) > > I'm actually looking forward to those changes. > Myb we should wait to actually test them? The net end result is just that now you are buying a {{item:2301}} type item with no other alternative, and don't get quest Buffs anymore, since they are all being replaced with the permission to use your Sightstone wards. I don't think i need to PLAY this to know it is bad, because the reason it is bad has nothing to do with how weak or strong it makes the support role, but how fun and engaging it is.
Huh, what about the items is so fun and engaging? I don't see it.
: Riot, it's time to stop. The support changes are unacceptable.
There is nothing unique or interesting about the quests. It just makes the items stronger. They are being used by solo laners and adcs so something had to change.
LafiCobra (EUNE)
: tank veigar for real?
Tank veigar isn't a new thing. Its happened before.
: No dude. I’d say it was even stupider before. Instead of being helplessly choked out for 10 min, you’d be helplessly choked out for 30min - the tanks still dive ur ass and kill you, but they couldn’t take towers/baron fast enough so the game just stalled longer. In the end their gold lead still just got bigger and bigger until you couldn’t stall any longer. Yeah in super low elo enemies would throw more, but it was still on the enemy team to throw. There is no magic rotation or engage that will win you the fight in a tank meta - because they’d eat the CC/damage and still roll you over. Pretty much the same game, just longer.
What? They have added a lot of snowball mechanics to the game since then. Before you could stall out and essentially farm until everyone was full build and then team fight it out. Or you could just win with split pushing and rotating. I could be wrong but it felt like there were more defined comps previously as well. It also took more than one team fight to win the game. Now you win a fight and the team can often just rush the base and end. Saying its the same when the game has changed as much as it has is just plain stupid, sorry. It has changed period. Whether good or bad I don't know but its not the same game.
: I just think he's on break at the moment. He's still awesome and a beast in game. Just wait till a pro pick him up and he'll be a top play and ban again. He's still just so strong when played.
He gets cc'd and kited pretty easy. The cc he offers is meh compared to someone like Warwick. His damage isn't great and requires some time and him staying on a target to get autos in. You are just better off picking any other champ because they all do the job better. No pro is gonna pick him up, sorry.
: > [{quoted}](name=Éthreal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kAUJzzEE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-02-23T05:23:54.098+0000) > > Adc's like {{champion:67}} and {{champion:119}} and {{champion:51}}, mages like {{champion:99}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:143}} . if u think {{champion:99}} can kite voli... i am not going to waste my time explaining
Uh, he q's at you....you bind him and walk the fuck away. How does he catch you exactly. Seriously if you think Voli is hard to kite then you are just trolling. He is probably the easiest champ to kite in the game. Which is probably why he's played so little there isn't enough data to get an accurate winrate.
: Another post ignoring how helpless adc are vs every other class due to their kits and low hp.
Lol, what? You need to go watch some streamers playing Kog, Trist, Xayah, and Vayne. They are far from helpless especially after 3 items.
xelaker (NA)
: LC$ plays don't come from boots
Does anyone seriously want to watch this though. There is nothing exciting about it.
: Please give xerath some fucking mana costs
Why just him? No one is really punished for using spells at this point. He is middle of the road for mid lane as is. Play someone with sustain or that can dodge skill shots and has burst, ie Fizz.
Ifneth (NA)
: Nah. It gives mages a chance against assassins by letting them buy a Doran’s Ring before rushing Zhonya’s Hourglass and giving them the active once they need it. Also, giving up the Domination or Precision Tree as a midlaner is quite a sacrifice just to counter a dive comp or ganky jungler a little sooner.
Lol, its free gold and access to one of the most powerfull actives in the game. LCS will get it nerfed more than likely because everyone will use it.
: With a 10 minute timer, you may as well remove it all together because you would have bought it by then.
The main point is you don't have to buy it. Why would you not take it if you are going to build one of those items. It is free gold.
: It doesn't work like this in any normal system in the world. But because this is a video game and it's online apparently riot can make their own rules for a society. If someone on the street just kept walking into your lawn and putting his garbage on it you would call the police. Riot doesn't have police. They have an automated robot force that can only read what players say. Not what they do. So when you yell at the guy for throwing trash in your lawn that's recorded but there is no record of the trash or the lawn.
Your post makes no sense. If you want to compare it to real world competition. In that case it would be like playing basketball and you just have some team mates that aren't as talented or serious. Would you say a bunch of mean shit to them. No, because you would get your ass beat or they would just not play with you antmore. What you might do is try and arrange teams a little more evenly but that doesn't always happen. So basically, in the real world people deal with losing better and aren't ass hats like in lol because there are real repercussions.
TylerBrah (EUW)
: If Vayne is so busted then why is she completely irrelevant in the current competitive scene?
Its almost like competitive is a different game. I wonder why pro players say that over and over again. Solo q and competitive league are very different.
: Are you enjoying the 3 tank + adc meta? I know I am.
Are you high? Go check the enemy teams on your last 5 games. There is no more than 1 tank on any of the opposing teams you played. These comments on the boards are so hilarious. Do you even pay attention to the games you are playing?
: Skarner's slight buffs spiked his winrate up 4%
Champion.gg isn't correct. Look at op.gg or lolalytics. Skarner is sitting at 49 or 50%. So basically they gave him better lock down which is the only reason to play Skarner. It helped make him better but his design still sucks.
: i said TOTAL % pick rate not midlane pick rate http://champion.gg/champion/Brand/Middle brand became so oppressive, i can't wait for you to play against him just because he had 48% win rate he needed buffs? give me a break let's buff ornn because he has 48% win rate too
Go look at sites with accurate data. His winrate isn't 54% in any lane. But I guess just keep spouting a bunch of BS. This is the boards after all.
MsKatlyn (NA)
: Why Rengar is unplayable.
This post is so missinformed I don't know where to start. Rengar is at a 49% winrate. He does tons of damage with just duskblade. He is frequently played at challenger level. Go watch some streams. He is not weak.
: "There is so much ** that needs nerfs I can't believe they didn't nerf anything"
Brand at a 50% winrate in both mid lane and support. Sounds broken to me lol.
Xyzx (NA)
: The problem is more than likely that hes about to become overbearing as a botlane support mage.
He's at 49% Wingate as support though. People just need to chill. The patch just hit.
Eedat (NA)
: Sooooo about those Brand buffs
I mean Aurelion Sol has a higher winrate mid with a slightly higger pick rate. Does he need nerfs too? Seriously, let it play out a little bit lol.
Moooose4 (NA)
: Would still think of Diamond5 with almost 1k games low elo, and still would assume you haven't risen a division in at least a few months, or in this case October since it's as far as Op.gg will go back. I refer you to my original post.
What does that have to do with the game being fun?
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