: *Silently sits here waiting for RIOT to reveal the Zilean skin the said was coming this year, since his last one was 4 or 5 years ago*
Exactly. Talon has a lot of skins actually, contrary to what people think. Even though PROJECT fits his theme, he already got enough skins to last a while. (Not sure why I got downvoted, I'm a Talon OTP goddamnit.)
Edmond51 (NA)
: Riot Please Make a PROJECT Talon skin
He already has enough skins and he recently got Enduring (recent compared to other champs that haven’t gotten a single one in years)
: Let’s look at why tanks are currently not of high value
Imo Conqueror is a broken rune that invalidates tanks. It doesn't matter if you build armor, someone with Conq is still going to shred you because of true damage.
GigglesO (NA)
: Assassins are too tanky for their mobility + damage.
Very poor argument imo. Any assassin player (including me) knows that if you get hit by 1 CC, any competent team shreds you. Your team didn't even try to kill him and all the damage to the squishy was done by Leblanc, who is also an assassin and is squishy btw. I still stand by my belief that assassins are the weakest class in the game. Often ult-reliant, squishy and very susceptible to CC. Their early game power and mobility is great, but wards and communication are simple counters to their ability to roam. They have an obvious fall-off point and are easy to counterbuild.
: Can we get a VO Remake roadmap? / What champions need a VO update?
HàrrowR (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Andevar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wJ0ZEAQW,comment-id=000e00000000,timestamp=2019-07-06T04:25:45.306+0000) > > Maybe it's because you got hit by her Q, and walked into range of her dash. > > Meanwhile anyone within an ADC's attack range gets melted before they can get to them because of supports like Alistar and Thresh. So what's the difference? I don't mind Diana killing me with a full combo, why would you be pissed that you can't kill an adc if not one, but two players threw all of their abilities at you,would you be just as pissed if that was thresh + diana combo that killed you or is it specifically the adc, like what's the difference?
Because it’s the job of an assassin to do high damage in short period of time to a single target. But right now, ADC’s can do the same.
HàrrowR (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Haze97,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wJ0ZEAQW,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-04T21:12:47.859+0000) > > Most top laners at the very least need to jump into a group of enemies to take em out. You don't get to complain when most of your champions are safer than any top laner and deal even greater dps on average. And top laners aptly are 10x as tanky as adcs, so what is your stupid argument even about? Morde has to be close to deal damage, he also gets a heal a shield and can disappear while 1v1ing your squishy adc, look at akali,sylas,yasuo,zed,irelia etc. they can all dish out more damage than an adc while having bullshit mechanics and mobility that completely negates any danger of being melee
Akali, Sylas, Yasuo, Zed dishing more damage out than an ADC? What game are you playing? First, Zed and Akali are burst champs, so they deal a significant amount of damage to a single target. Second, ADC's deal sustained damage and by far outdamage any single class if they're competent.
HàrrowR (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Haze97,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wJ0ZEAQW,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-07-04T21:14:02.779+0000) > > What bs. If you were going 5/1, not even a Zed who is a level below you would kill you reliably. How so? Do ADCs go for any tank items first making them more durable to REQ + duskblade auto from Zed? It really doesn't matter how fed you are if you have no defensive items and get bursted down in a second you die just as easily as 1/5 adc if caught off position
Phantom Dancer provides a survival shield. Iceborn gauntlet on Ezreal provides armor. Any AD can build health, it doesn't even have to be armor. Black Cleaver and other items could make you virtually unkillable. This added on with a COMPETENT support makes it difficult for an assassin to perform his job. I'm going to guess you're on of those people that scream ADC's and mages are weak and assassins are overbuffed and unhealthy though.
HàrrowR (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Andevar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wJ0ZEAQW,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-07-05T00:51:22.431+0000) > > I love how ADC’s can burst champs better than any assassin player and have a support to peel anyone off from them. Yes i love making stuff up as well, meanwhile 3 games ago Diana dealt 3000 damage in a single combo to me
Maybe it's because you got hit by her Q, and walked into range of her dash. Meanwhile anyone within an ADC's attack range gets melted before they can get to them because of supports like Alistar and Thresh.
: I'm really tired and burned out from adcs.
I love how ADC’s can burst champs better than any assassin player and have a support to peel anyone off from them.
: Mastery points and unlimited level cap has made my life hell.
I’m a Talon OTP with around 900k points overall and I int my ass off in norms or ranked. My key to staying chill? The moment some idiot mentions it I just mute them and move on. Just a little toxicity and I mute them. Solves a lot of issues and prevents me from tilting.
: got my friend permabannede - he blocked me on every media - did I do the right thing?
Friends don’t flame each other or berate each other seriously like that. If he was being toxic towards you and saying stuff like that, then he wasn’t your friend.
: I am silver 2 trash. Why in the heck am I always against high golds, plats, and sometimes diamond?
: Nightblue gets a player Falsely banned.
Didn’t realize off-meta was bannable. Could’ve sworn Riot themselves said it wasn’t. And yet here we are, ironic isn’t it? Riot can’t even stay consistent.
: Yasuo's Early Game is Too Good
The only issue I have with him is how quick he can take turrets early. With Yasuo, I can barely get my roams off with Talon without him taking at least 2 plates per roam.
: Wish riot would punish people who pick wrong champ for their lane.
I play Top Talon and so do some challenger Talons and it isn’t a problem. The top player in EUW last season also played Talon jungle.
: Well no, and the direction that they are headed with creating more and more and more plotlines it's going literally nowhere. Is Morde really going to invade? No. Because if he does invade it's over. Are Azir and Xerath going to clash against each other? No, because if they do one of them has to die. Will Aurelion be free from Targon? No, because if he is freed it's over for Targon. Things will remain frozen until a retcon comes...
Why would one of them dying mean anything? This game is not related to the lore directly in the sense that if a champ dies in lore, they cease to exist in game. The fact that the game is called League of Legends imply that the champions are legends. Legends don’t have to be alive for the game to keep them in.
: I think this is kinda true. At very high elo, I would definitely agree with you. Your high elo friend also probably gets told not to play Master Yi and Garen. But the vast majority of the playerbase just doesn't play at that level. Even including data only from plat+, Zed is 8th on the tier list. He's not irrelevant to 95% of the playerbase. So I think it's worth discussing some things that counter him down there. This is definitely not a discussion for high elo. I'm not high elo. This is discussion for the bronze/silver/gold players. Maybe even a few plat players. I expect that anyone diamond+ doesn't need to hear about supports that counter assassins; you don't get to diamond being ignorant about stuff like that.
I don’t think it matters if you’re high elo or not. A lot of those champs counter assassins at every elo. You can be in iron and anyone who can land a hook or flail as Thresh automatically screws you. The problem is in low elo no one recognizes these tools to counter assassins. I’ve played in silver and gold on my Talon and it shocks me how many Lux’s or Orianna mids don’t bring barrier. People don’t understand how to counterbuild in low-elo too. You see an assassin with 7 kills; you should probably build Zhonyas or armor. But I rarely see this in silver-gold. It’s not a matter of skill; it’s more how people in low-elo seem to be ignorant how there’s clear and obvious counters to assassins and they don’t utilize these advantages. This isn’t really something Riot can correct through balancing or anything. If they did, they might as well just delete assassins in general from the game.
: Taric counters AD assassins like Qiyana
There’s A LOT of champs that counter assassins. There’s also A LOT of things that counter assassins. We got champs like Orianna, Azir, Xerath, Kayle, Lulu, Janna, Taric, Thresh, Blitzcrank, Alistar. Pretty much any support with CC. Even Maokai and Malphite work. We also have items like Zhonyas, Seekers, anyone with cloth armor and tabis (which everyone thinks does nothing against AD assassins because...?). Literally anyone buying armor. Not to mention the summoner spell Barrier negates an assassin’s ability to kill you pre-6 in lane unless you’re monkey enough to get poked out. Let’s not forget how warding completely breaks an assassins ability to impact the early game. You ward their roam path? Wow, they can’t gank bot or too because you seen them coming! AD assassins are quite literally a weak and disadvantaged class (if not the weakest) because the way to counter them is so obvious. It doesn’t take much to shut them down and they fall off hard af in the late game. One of my diamond friends receiving high elo coaching was even told to just drop assassins in general. Why play an assassin when we got mages with overtuned items?
: What the hell do you guys do against Zed to win?
Zhonyas. As Ahri you have immense safety in your kit. Don’t burn charm unless he engages and you can use ult to speed away from his shadows. If he roams, shove the wave and try to follow _safely_. Using your ult to dodge his Q’s and escape from the majority of his burst is better than going in while his R is still active.
: How to reduce the amounts of deaths I have?
Think things through before committing. You should be thinking of how things will play out before committing. For me, I play Talon so I have to look at how I’ll escape after I make a pick. You have look at everything the enemy has (CC abilities, ults that could shred you, etc) and take those into account. Diving in going 1 for 1 is not as good as not engaging and waiting/grouping with your team first.
FkValeRly (EUW)
: eh farming too much is a good way for your team to int, sometimes you have to help all lanes and wont have time to farm and want to leave the farm to your team mates anyways.
You can maximize both. On average you need 6+ CS to get an S ranking. Being ahead also grants you easier access to farm so it definitely isn’t difficult to both get high CS and KP%.
: Qiyana: Awesome visuals, but one big missed opportunity.
Her hair gives impressions of colonial era wigs. It just doesn’t look right to me.
: "On My Way" Ping Should Include Timer Based on Auto Pathing Speed
I imagine it’d be hard to code and it might give false assumptions to the person receiving help. Example Talon E, Kayn E, etc. These significantly lower travel time but wouldn’t be factorable because of player control and unpredictability. They could arrive much sooner or much later than expected.
: Regarding Mastery and farm requirments
It’s very possible for roamers/gankers , even top lane to get S’s. I play Talon top from time-to-time and aggressively roam mid, jg, or even bot. You just need to have a firm understanding of waves and timing it so you get back in time to collect your minions.
FkValeRly (EUW)
: zed has a 45%~ wr in the matchup, it has a lot to do with talon just being strong but talon kinda beats zed even when his not that bonkers.
I play Talon religiously in high plat and I can tell you that the majority of Talon players and mains have trouble with this matchup. In fact Zed has a higher winrate against Talon and an advantage on him according to Champion.gg, OP.GG, and other sites. Fact is, Talon generally loses against Zed.
FkValeRly (EUW)
: talon counters zed, tell me a time when kat and k6 haven't been meta.
Talon’s R counters Zed R. There’s nothing else to it and it’s generally a 50/50 matchup.
: If you think Zed is strong/broken atm, nothing can save you. Also, if you think Talon Vs Zed is in Zed favour, you never played the match-up because Talon dumpster Zed in and out Zed is also certainly not meta atm, do you even see what the top pick are? Ryze, Sylas, Irelia, Akali (less priority tho), Vlad, Neeko (flex, not OP as a mid), Leblanc. We see Syndra, Orianna, Lissandra too. But by NO MEAN do we get a Zed in pro play and he is rare at high elo.
It’s a skill matchup. Probably one of the most snowball matchups out there.
: When People ask me why i still play league
So I can give myself the suffering I deserve HEHEHEHEHEHE Also semi-addicted, not to League but to Talon :^)
: Yeah, I know about the old lore. I’m just curious to know how or why they’re connected in the new canon (hasn’t been explained yet).
Oh nah that was my one interesting thing about {{champion:91}} . Flawless assassin. I want Talon Quinn rivalry expanded on PLESS RIOT
: {{champion:133}} and {{champion:91}} are rivals and share a suspiciously high amount of visual, gameplay, and thematic similarities.
{{champion:91}} in the old Quinn lore is said to make no mistakes and is one of Noxus’s top assassins, leading to Quinn to come to the conclusion that the assassin she’s after is not Talon.
d00mface (EUW)
: If you could take one object from the world of Runeterra to have what would you take?
One of Talon’s dagger. The way it blossoms and flies back is cool af.
Lewanor (NA)
: Du Couteau Timeline and Family Connections
Also from what I get from Katarina’s short story is that contrary to popular belief, Talon and Kat are more rivals than anything. Katarina’s strive to redeem herself while Marcus raises a new son to replace her seems like the classic sibling rivalry. ~Crimson Elite best skin
Lewanor (NA)
: Du Couteau Timeline and Family Connections
Very well written as always, Lewanor. I’m hoping for a Riot reply to this to hopefully shed light on somethings. ~Also Crimson Elite best skin
: Well...They *can*, it just requires them being fed and building nothing but pen items. Then people call it a "one-shot" despite taking over 15 seconds even though Zed has BC LDR and Youmuu's and two levels up on Maokai.
No, they can’t. They’re AD Assassins that fall off. I don’t get how people buy armor and are still “one-shotted” by Talon in the late game.
: About Cassiopeia's bio update...
#15 It gives me tears of happiness knowing people in this community remember Talon and his outdated af lore still exists.
: yep, that assassin that murders any one person they choose gets to come back to life and do it again wait, if it's talon, he can do it to multiple people...sure sounds great, right? pyke can do that too and he likes things that make him artificially more durable this is why wooglet's witchcap did not make it to summoner's rift, why the original guardian angel had no offense stats (actually why most items had no bonus offenses...damage gets too high very easily and the old riot when they found something that did that, they nerfed it into the ground or removed it's feature
Um. If an assassin dies with GA he probably blew his ult CD making him useless. So technically GA wouldn’t be that bad on them compared to ADC’s, who will auto people to death.
: I highly doubt top lane tanks will amount to much with Conqueror in the game
No one amounts to anything with Conqueror in the game. We have champs like Jax Irelia who melt into teams while being too tanky to kill. Why play an assassin, a mage, an ADC, or a tank when conqueror champs are all of those combined and better? Like, what? You have a tank? I have a Yi jg with Conq and Rageblade.
: Can Riot comment on if we're going to get Ezreal tier VgUs in the future?
{{champion:91}} Probably should get a small-scale visual upgrade as well. Man’s got scoliosis since his release in s2 pre-season.
: 9.8: Lore Update
Sad days, still no Talon lore. Maybe one day...
: Riot ruined smurfing in Season 9 and it's killing games for both smurfs and non-smurfs
Smurfs win 8-0 placed in whatever low rank still had a high MMR. They don’t play against other bronzes or silvers, they play against players according to their MMR, not rank. That’s why silver smurfs with 90% winrate can be seen in plat and diamond games. It just becomes harder for them to legitimately rank up their sccounts.
: Post MSI Gameplay Improvements
Is it possible to look into Talon as a champion right now? There’s a weird identity crisis for him where he is officially an early-lane champ but he lacks the ability to capitalize on it because of previous nerfs. Many Talon mains in the community have talked about how the W nerfs on him a while back have forced him to be dependent on a single item, Tiamat. Flash forward to now, Tiamat has been nerfed and Talon’s waveclear remains subpar. He is still forced to use Tiamat to match the waveclear of other mid laners. This especially causes issues when he’s against assassins like Zed, where he is unable to reach the lethality power spike before Zed because of his need to focus on waveclear. As an early game champion, Talon should have the waveclear he had prior to the nerfs. He can’t impact the game and snowball without roaming and he can’t roam if he has no waveclear. As such, Talon’s W nerfs should be reverted. It’s very unhealthy for a champion to be dependent on a single item, leading to a lack of diversity in builds and a single linear build path that spells boredom for players. In fact, the reason why most Talons run inspiration now (which contribute to this inspiration overuse) is because he needs it to compete with other champs. It’s essentially the only thing that keeps him viable right now. Without minion demats, he is forced to rely on Tiamat once again. If you’re looking to nerf inspiration, at least consider buffing Talon’s W.
: Good sir OP. have you ever considered the fact that Talon is a magician? He can throw out a few triangle like blades, have them spin in the air while lying down then return to his hand perfectly without hurting himself. He can even do stuff like go invisible, throw out a ton of blades and do the above and even direct them towards a target that he wants them to hit. That´s why he has that outrageous cape, how can any self respecting magic user walk around without it? Then as far as how much it actually stands out goes......probably not a lot given that Noxus is a giant melting pot of culture , you could probably have 3 people wearing traditional clothing from 3 different parts of the world walk side by side without it looking really out of place so talon probably blends in just fine.
I'm pretty sure a narrative rioter said that Talon's ability to throw his blades is purely gameplay and is not related to his lore. That was a while ago, however, and could've changed.
: When a one-trick pony gets auto-filled
As a Talon OTP, I can confirm this is what I play.
thefance (NA)
: > How is Talon “oppressive” I consider Talon especially oppressive because he has kill pressure at level 2. A solo lane needs 7 minions to hit level 2. Other assassins need level 3. By "oppressive" I don't mean "strong winrate". I mean "I don't get to play league for 20 minutes". If you want to increase his winrate, I think a better discussion would involve his scaling, rather than the item he always purchases before the 10 minute mark. > By your logic, an assassin should not be able to roam at all because they can’t compete with mages in waveclear Talon can roam. But at a cost. Roaming represents a gamble with tradeoffs, as do all decisions in league. If you get a kill, you gain a large economic lead. If not, you gain a small economic deficit. A kill is worth about 300 g while a wave is worth about 105 g (excluding the cannon, which is worth 60 g to 90 g). (Fun Fact: Since the cannon comes every 3rd wave, I often shove the 2nd wave and recall in order to minimize cs and xp lost to my tower.) Traditionally, a mage's counterplay to an assassin with a roam-heavy playstyle is to deny cs and xp while the assassin is absent. In other words: * If the wave is slow-pushing from the assassin's side toward the mage, let the wave continue so that the minions die naturally. * If the wave is about to crash under the mage's tower, freeze to prevent a bounce. Crowd control and pulling aggro sideways are useful tactics. * Otherwise, crash the wave under the assassin's tower. An assassin can minimize this cost by crashing the wave before the roam. Thus, they minimize wasted cs and xp. They do this safely by gaining control over the wave via kill pressure. The mage can't control the wave if they're too afraid to walk forward. But if the mage can poke enough without taking damage, control of the wave transfers from the assassin to the mage. What you're asking is for Riot to give Talon enough waveclear to roam without ever suffering negative consequences. Consider the opposite perspective. Why do control mages exist if their primary strength is overshadowed by assassins, who can pressure 2 lanes simultaneously while mages can't even pressure 1 lane? "But muh roam playstyle." Anivia is allowed to waveclear without suffering negative consequences because she doesn't have any other options. With zero gap-closers and the one of the slowest movespeeds in the game, roaming is not in her repertoire.
Ok? I don't need the League game tips but alright. Anyways, the way mage players do counter assassin's who use a roam-heavy playstyle is to deny the assassin CS and XP is to control the wave. But when the mages waveclear stops the assassin from leaving lane in the first place because of their unparalleled waveclear ability, then it's oppressive to the assassin player. An assassin's roaming strength is tied to their waveclear, but when mages are able to deny that with a far superior waveclear, then they deny an assassin's entire early game. And you argue that for Anivia, but what about Talon? With one of the most linear assassin designs and the hardest fall off out of any assassin, Talon's only way to win IS the early game. If he's denied that by a mage's waveclear, then he has no early game. What can he do? Nothing.
thefance (NA)
: Most assassins have weak waveclear. The fact that Talon can even compete with Anivia's waveclear is abnormal for his role. If the price of his waveclear is Tiamat, I say "so be it". Meanwhile, Anivia's waveclear is her defining strength. It's top tier even among the mage-class, which traditionally has strong waveclear. Therefore, Talon shouldn't have waveclear as equally strong as Anivia's wavelcear. And let's not forget that Anivia's waveclear depends on Tear, which represents a loss of 850 gold for *zero* combat stats. Tiamat might be more expensive than Tear, but at least it builds out of Longswords. Talon is already oppressive as things currently stand. If you want Riot to reduce his dependency on Tiamat, he needs to lose something else.
How is Talon “oppressive” as things stand? He’s easily one of the most linear assassins out there. He falls off harder than any other assassin. By your logic, an assassin should not be able to roam at all because they can’t compete with mages in waveclear. If that’s the case, why do early-game roaming champions exist if they have no waveclear to begin with or if they’re out wavecleared by the primary midland champ?
Kazekiba (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Andevar,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=6lzjce20,comment-id=0047,timestamp=2019-03-27T17:05:11.028+0000) > > @Meddler > > Any chance we can give Talon W nerf reverts from a while ago? He was originally nerfed for his unparalleled waveclear, which stemmed not from his W, but from Tiamat. > > Presently, however, Tiamat has been nerfed with a price increase and with the W nerfs on Talon before, Talon players are still forced to be tied with Tiamat in order to match the wave clears of mages like Anivia. > > If his W nerfs were to be reverted, Talon players wouldn’t have to build Tiamat every game and would have a more diverse build while being able to match the waveclear of other champs currently. > > All-in-all, it feels terrible to have to tie a champion to a single item in order to compete with other champion waveclears. As a roaming champ, Talon’s waveclear should be able to match his opponents without having to rely on a single item every game. Anivia doesn't get to jump over walls and be anywhere on the map every 3 minutes she wants unless she takes TP
Yeah, but she gets to AFK farm mid with no consequence by pressing R every wave. She also doesn’t hard fall-off late game and can 1v5. Do you have another point? There’s a difference between an early-game assassin versus a mage.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 27
@Meddler Any chance we can give Talon W nerf reverts from a while ago? He was originally nerfed for his unparalleled waveclear, which stemmed not from his W, but from Tiamat. Presently, however, Tiamat has been nerfed with a price increase and with the W nerfs on Talon before, Talon players are still forced to be tied with Tiamat in order to match the wave clears of mages like Anivia. If his W nerfs were to be reverted, Talon players wouldn’t have to build Tiamat every game and would have a more diverse build while being able to match the waveclear of other champs currently. All-in-all, it feels terrible to have to tie a champion to a single item in order to compete with other champion waveclears. As a roaming champ, Talon’s waveclear should be able to match his opponents without having to rely on a single item every game.
Wyrin (NA)
: Who are your level 7 Mastery Champions?
{{champion:91}} Talon OTP :) 789k on Talon, 40k is my next highest
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