: 9.8: Lore Update
Sad days, still no Talon lore. Maybe one day...
: Riot ruined smurfing in Season 9 and it's killing games for both smurfs and non-smurfs
Smurfs win 8-0 placed in whatever low rank still had a high MMR. They don’t play against other bronzes or silvers, they play against players according to their MMR, not rank. That’s why silver smurfs with 90% winrate can be seen in plat and diamond games. It just becomes harder for them to legitimately rank up their sccounts.
: Post MSI Gameplay Improvements
Is it possible to look into Talon as a champion right now? There’s a weird identity crisis for him where he is officially an early-lane champ but he lacks the ability to capitalize on it because of previous nerfs. Many Talon mains in the community have talked about how the W nerfs on him a while back have forced him to be dependent on a single item, Tiamat. Flash forward to now, Tiamat has been nerfed and Talon’s waveclear remains subpar. He is still forced to use Tiamat to match the waveclear of other mid laners. This especially causes issues when he’s against assassins like Zed, where he is unable to reach the lethality power spike before Zed because of his need to focus on waveclear. As an early game champion, Talon should have the waveclear he had prior to the nerfs. He can’t impact the game and snowball without roaming and he can’t roam if he has no waveclear. As such, Talon’s W nerfs should be reverted. It’s very unhealthy for a champion to be dependent on a single item, leading to a lack of diversity in builds and a single linear build path that spells boredom for players. In fact, the reason why most Talons run inspiration now (which contribute to this inspiration overuse) is because he needs it to compete with other champs. It’s essentially the only thing that keeps him viable right now. Without minion demats, he is forced to rely on Tiamat once again. If you’re looking to nerf inspiration, at least consider buffing Talon’s W.
: Good sir OP. have you ever considered the fact that Talon is a magician? He can throw out a few triangle like blades, have them spin in the air while lying down then return to his hand perfectly without hurting himself. He can even do stuff like go invisible, throw out a ton of blades and do the above and even direct them towards a target that he wants them to hit. That´s why he has that outrageous cape, how can any self respecting magic user walk around without it? Then as far as how much it actually stands out goes......probably not a lot given that Noxus is a giant melting pot of culture , you could probably have 3 people wearing traditional clothing from 3 different parts of the world walk side by side without it looking really out of place so talon probably blends in just fine.
I'm pretty sure a narrative rioter said that Talon's ability to throw his blades is purely gameplay and is not related to his lore. That was a while ago, however, and could've changed.
: When a one-trick pony gets auto-filled
As a Talon OTP, I can confirm this is what I play.
thefance (NA)
: > How is Talon “oppressive” I consider Talon especially oppressive because he has kill pressure at level 2. A solo lane needs 7 minions to hit level 2. Other assassins need level 3. By "oppressive" I don't mean "strong winrate". I mean "I don't get to play league for 20 minutes". If you want to increase his winrate, I think a better discussion would involve his scaling, rather than the item he always purchases before the 10 minute mark. > By your logic, an assassin should not be able to roam at all because they can’t compete with mages in waveclear Talon can roam. But at a cost. Roaming represents a gamble with tradeoffs, as do all decisions in league. If you get a kill, you gain a large economic lead. If not, you gain a small economic deficit. A kill is worth about 300 g while a wave is worth about 105 g (excluding the cannon, which is worth 60 g to 90 g). (Fun Fact: Since the cannon comes every 3rd wave, I often shove the 2nd wave and recall in order to minimize cs and xp lost to my tower.) Traditionally, a mage's counterplay to an assassin with a roam-heavy playstyle is to deny cs and xp while the assassin is absent. In other words: * If the wave is slow-pushing from the assassin's side toward the mage, let the wave continue so that the minions die naturally. * If the wave is about to crash under the mage's tower, freeze to prevent a bounce. Crowd control and pulling aggro sideways are useful tactics. * Otherwise, crash the wave under the assassin's tower. An assassin can minimize this cost by crashing the wave before the roam. Thus, they minimize wasted cs and xp. They do this safely by gaining control over the wave via kill pressure. The mage can't control the wave if they're too afraid to walk forward. But if the mage can poke enough without taking damage, control of the wave transfers from the assassin to the mage. What you're asking is for Riot to give Talon enough waveclear to roam without ever suffering negative consequences. Consider the opposite perspective. Why do control mages exist if their primary strength is overshadowed by assassins, who can pressure 2 lanes simultaneously while mages can't even pressure 1 lane? "But muh roam playstyle." Anivia is allowed to waveclear without suffering negative consequences because she doesn't have any other options. With zero gap-closers and the one of the slowest movespeeds in the game, roaming is not in her repertoire.
Ok? I don't need the League game tips but alright. Anyways, the way mage players do counter assassin's who use a roam-heavy playstyle is to deny the assassin CS and XP is to control the wave. But when the mages waveclear stops the assassin from leaving lane in the first place because of their unparalleled waveclear ability, then it's oppressive to the assassin player. An assassin's roaming strength is tied to their waveclear, but when mages are able to deny that with a far superior waveclear, then they deny an assassin's entire early game. And you argue that for Anivia, but what about Talon? With one of the most linear assassin designs and the hardest fall off out of any assassin, Talon's only way to win IS the early game. If he's denied that by a mage's waveclear, then he has no early game. What can he do? Nothing.
thefance (NA)
: Most assassins have weak waveclear. The fact that Talon can even compete with Anivia's waveclear is abnormal for his role. If the price of his waveclear is Tiamat, I say "so be it". Meanwhile, Anivia's waveclear is her defining strength. It's top tier even among the mage-class, which traditionally has strong waveclear. Therefore, Talon shouldn't have waveclear as equally strong as Anivia's wavelcear. And let's not forget that Anivia's waveclear depends on Tear, which represents a loss of 850 gold for *zero* combat stats. Tiamat might be more expensive than Tear, but at least it builds out of Longswords. Talon is already oppressive as things currently stand. If you want Riot to reduce his dependency on Tiamat, he needs to lose something else.
How is Talon “oppressive” as things stand? He’s easily one of the most linear assassins out there. He falls off harder than any other assassin. By your logic, an assassin should not be able to roam at all because they can’t compete with mages in waveclear. If that’s the case, why do early-game roaming champions exist if they have no waveclear to begin with or if they’re out wavecleared by the primary midland champ?
Kazekiba (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Andevar,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=6lzjce20,comment-id=0047,timestamp=2019-03-27T17:05:11.028+0000) > > @Meddler > > Any chance we can give Talon W nerf reverts from a while ago? He was originally nerfed for his unparalleled waveclear, which stemmed not from his W, but from Tiamat. > > Presently, however, Tiamat has been nerfed with a price increase and with the W nerfs on Talon before, Talon players are still forced to be tied with Tiamat in order to match the wave clears of mages like Anivia. > > If his W nerfs were to be reverted, Talon players wouldn’t have to build Tiamat every game and would have a more diverse build while being able to match the waveclear of other champs currently. > > All-in-all, it feels terrible to have to tie a champion to a single item in order to compete with other champion waveclears. As a roaming champ, Talon’s waveclear should be able to match his opponents without having to rely on a single item every game. Anivia doesn't get to jump over walls and be anywhere on the map every 3 minutes she wants unless she takes TP
Yeah, but she gets to AFK farm mid with no consequence by pressing R every wave. She also doesn’t hard fall-off late game and can 1v5. Do you have another point? There’s a difference between an early-game assassin versus a mage.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 27
@Meddler Any chance we can give Talon W nerf reverts from a while ago? He was originally nerfed for his unparalleled waveclear, which stemmed not from his W, but from Tiamat. Presently, however, Tiamat has been nerfed with a price increase and with the W nerfs on Talon before, Talon players are still forced to be tied with Tiamat in order to match the wave clears of mages like Anivia. If his W nerfs were to be reverted, Talon players wouldn’t have to build Tiamat every game and would have a more diverse build while being able to match the waveclear of other champs currently. All-in-all, it feels terrible to have to tie a champion to a single item in order to compete with other champion waveclears. As a roaming champ, Talon’s waveclear should be able to match his opponents without having to rely on a single item every game.
Wyrin (NA)
: Who are your level 7 Mastery Champions?
{{champion:91}} Talon OTP :) 789k on Talon, 40k is my next highest
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Andevar,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=3ElzA2Gl,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-09T21:08:21.796+0000) > > That’s impossible unless you’re 50 HP, which is your fault for staying in lane with 50HP -_- i guess you are new to the game and havent seen what zed can do. + its a meme you dip
It’s a meme that doesn’t make sense. If he hit his auto then maybe, but he didn’t. So no Duskblade proc, only E and ignite. ?????
: > [{quoted}](name=Andevar,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=3ElzA2Gl,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-03-09T18:45:19.270+0000) > > That doesn’t proc electrocute tho. fine - electrocute still enemy slain :/
That’s impossible unless you’re 50 HP, which is your fault for staying in lane with 50HP
: First thought i had from this title was zed. W R E *cancels aa* *ignites* misses all 3 Q's *electrocute* *enemy slain*
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 6
Unpopular opinion but any plans to revert the W nerfs on Talon that he received a while back? He was originally nerfed because of his ability to waveclear and the hesitation to nerf Tiamat itself. However, a few patches ago, Tiamat was nerfed anyways and Talon was given no compensation for it. My point is, are his W nerfs going to be reverted since Tiamat was nerfed? I rather not see him suffer because of he was nerfed for his reliance on an item, which was ultimately nerfed anyway.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Upcoming (NA)
: Talon auto attack bug 2/21/2019
This isn't just Talon exclusive. It's a bug across a bunch of champions that's specific to this patch. It was fine prior to this, but now autoing with attack move has become a serious issue :/ Hope Riot fixes this ASAP.
Rioter Comments
: Is General Du Couteau ever gonna factor into the lore again?
Probably come back whenever they decide to release Talon's lore. Which has been a long time, so I hope it's soon. But then again...I hoped it was soon back in February during Swain/Noxus's update...
: Were all remade champs worse than their original?
Talon's rework is considered to be the best rework out of all the assassin reworks.
Khabith (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Andevar,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=53BdEbhX,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-01-18T01:23:50.230+0000) > > Imagine if you played the champ and learned him first before coming to the boards to complain after you lost a game to him. check my match history, I havent faced him in a while, its just straight facts that he is a poorly designed champion
> [{quoted}](name=Khabith,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=53BdEbhX,comment-id=00090001,timestamp=2019-01-18T05:00:03.160+0000) > > check my match history, I havent faced him in a while, its just straight facts that he is a poorly designed champion "I haven't faced him in a while" Yet you come here claiming that you have "straight facts" about a champ that you haven't played as or against in a long time? Makes sense.
Khabith (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Andevar,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=53BdEbhX,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-01-18T01:23:50.230+0000) > > Imagine if you played the champ and learned him first before coming to the boards to complain after you lost a game to him. Learn how to play him... level 2 all in, get dusk, play like a b*tch while still one shotting, ive been playing this game long enough to know exactly what he does, he isnt healthy for the game
> [{quoted}](name=Khabith,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=53BdEbhX,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-01-18T03:57:04.383+0000) > > Learn how to play him... level 2 all in, get dusk, play like a b*tch while still one shotting, ive been playing this game long enough to know exactly what he does, he isnt healthy for the game Let me list off your issues there. Talon's lvl 2 has actually been nerfed since his release. He is much weaker than he used to be. Any type of CC will also take him down before he could make use of his walls. That combined with the fact that he is squishy makes him very easy to deal with. Talon's late game is also one of the worse off late-games of any assassins. He falls off harder than any and is very ult-reliant. If you want to talk unhealthy, look at true unhealthy champions such as Tryndamere or Wukong, not Talon.
: Assassin main are living the dream in the midlane right now, that class has completely pushed mages out of viability and its disgusting as fuck. Every rift game I play I am always matched up against an assassin, i honestly can't even remember the last time is aw an actual mage go mid lane except the champion I'm playing.
What? Turret plating makes it kinda bad to play as an Assassin in this meta, especially when staying in lane is more beneficial than roaming.
Khabith (NA)
: People would complain more about talon if he was a new champion....
Imagine if you played the champ and learned him first before coming to the boards to complain after you lost a game to him.
Candoodle (EUW)
: OTP opening their Loot tab
Can confirm, setting at 34 keys and 0 chests :^)
: When Aftershock Galio is building full AP but has 3k health and can 100-0 you within his CC timer
Also applies to the enemy Aatrox with a single damage item, being tanky af, and still deleting everyone on your team.
CakeMix (EUW)
: ***
Imagine having to resort to insults to win arguments over a game. Grow up man, I was just stating that if you don't even play the game, you don't have a right to judge it. Just like how game reviewers have to actually play the game to review it, instead of making claims they've only seen, rather than experienced.
CakeMix (EUW)
: 1. Been playing since beta, I have many accounts. All at varying levels of play, I've coached multiple players in my time so that's why i have numerous accounts. I would post on my main If the over zealous forum Mods hadn't banned my account for varying levels of misunderstanding sarcasm... also i can lose my patience with stupid people... so i'm not innocent, just honest. lol. 2. As soon as you mention some ones rank, you automatically lose the argument. No. STFU. Nothing can say can justify The underlining statement of "you are this rank, therefore your statement is void" Fuck you and your childish shit for thinking that. 3. I hate ranked. In season 3 I stopped when i reached plat. That's all i cared at the time about, I reached my milestone and I was done with it all on my main account. I quickly realised the ranked system is a deeply unfair and a cesspool for griefers to spread their toxic shit. Why the fuck would I want to subject myself to that? Why the fuck after coming home from work would I choose to subject myself to countless hours of wasted time over seeing my wife? And why would I play now for that matter when the whole system is 1000 times worse than what it used to be unless I want to play with friends and carry on teaching them how to play? Even then, I stopped playing. Because this game has gone to shit to the point where i would rather drink bleach than play.
Your argument was invalidated by one sentence. "Even then, I stopped playing." You can't criticize game balance if you don't play the game in the first place.
CakeMix (EUW)
: I did play him. The only reason I don't anymore because playing this game is like injecting rat poison directly into my veins. dude... cut your fucking shit out. Every single game as Talon at level 2 I would easily get first blood. As soon as I reached 3 I was ungankable. It's got nothing to do with the opponent playing badly or whatever excuse you wanna come up with. It's got everything to do with Damage being absolutely absurd accompanied with champs with to much of a safe kit. Literally my condition to get the lvl 2 first blood was to all in the second they try to CS. That's just fundamentally unhealthy from a game design standpoint.
Then why don't play him to climb? Literally complain about him being so easy, but he's one of the worst off assassins right now. Also, you're playing in silver 4, it's not hard to get first blood as Talon. No one has the IQ to dodge your second W, or to know how to properly counter Talon. Being downvoted by mage circlejerk is great.
: And you're completely missing the point. His early game is shitty but if he gets fed or makes it to late his damage is utterly disgusting and he just shreds everything in 1-2 seconds. Its solo queue, you have random teammates and people that 'shouldnt' get fed do get fed sometimes. The entire concept of shit early game but 1v5 if fed because of broken late game kit is dumb as fuck. It creates shitty feast or famine gameplay where either the person playing the champion isnt have fun or the enemy team isnt.
I don't think it's Yi that's the problem on that one, more Conqueror and the true damage it brings.
CakeMix (EUW)
: You got to be kidding. I can litrally walk away from my keyboard while playing Talon and still get a kill.
Why don't you play him to climb then if he's so easy? Why does he have a 50% win rate with a low play rate if he's so easy? Making false assumptions without actual proof is all I see on the boards these days, especially when it's a meta heavily supporting laning champs and mages rather than roaming assassins.
: Can we mother fucking stop giving assassins 17 million escapes?
Let's just pretend that Mages don't have things that break them too. Assassins have reliable mobility and escapes, sure. But they're also extremely squishy. Mages have more utility, having almost always one CC ability and of course, Zhonyas/Stopwatch. So sure, let's complain about assassin mobility and not buying a single item that negates and entire role.
Rioter Comments
Eedat (NA)
: It's frankly an embarrassment how bad of a state the client is left in
There's also the bugs where the client kicks you back to lobby because it thinks someone didn't accept, when in reality everyone accepted the prompt. Client is just a mess as it is right now. Nothing works properly. Even the club rosters don't let me look at a player specifically, making me have to type in their names, and if they got some weird ass character, I have to find out how to copy it.
needHymn (NA)
: The mastery 7 is great... but there should be more symbols... at 500k mastery, and at 1 mil mastery.
Mastery 7 is pretty much nothing now, considering how easy it is to get. I agree that Riot should expand on the Mastery system, but maybe not with challenges. 500k, 1 million milestone masteries seem much better and they actually convey something, rather than how mastery is right now.
: Suggestion on how to make Neeko more fair
Her ult is overloaded. She gets a large amount of shields, a stun, and a lot of damage. She doesn't need that considering the rest of her kit. Removing her stun would be a great start, or the shields she gets from it.
: Tips on farming in an oppressive lane?
Freeze the lane just outside your turret range and safely farm there. This means oppressive champs have to overextend, leaving them vulnerable to ganks. You can also just roam after shoving lane and that'll be the major way for you to snowball.
: Would you recommend this game to people?
Too many smurfs at lower ELO's. Too much toxicity and troll for new players to deal with. A lot of stuff to learn that honestly isn't very rewarding in the end. Yeah, no. I wouldn't recommend this to anyone.
Lewanor (NA)
: Nice, let me make one for the champs that never got a lore update, or mention in lore. Ever. {{champion:12}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:26}}
I’m still a very big fan of your chained champ theory. That’s probably the reason why Talon’s lore has been on hold for so long (even after they found it what to do with him).
Dr Dog (NA)
: Talons e needs a higher in combat cd
I guess the fact that he's probably the squishiest and the most ult reliant of all the assassins means nothing. Or how any type of CC that hits him is almost always a guarantee kill. Oh well. Let's complain some more, no? Let's also forget that the walls he jump are on cooldown for at least 2 minutes, probably more. It's not like him jumping them has no consequence.
: What is, in your opinion, the worst designed champion in this game?
{{champion:84}} True stealth. {{champion:39}} Oppresive early and late game. There’s a saying that a 0-5 Irelia can still 1v5... {{champion:266}} Oh you only have 1 AD item? Let me one shot you and dive you under turret with my ult. {{champion:518}} Overloaded kit. Why does she get invisibility, root, very good poke, an ult that gives her Uber shields, a stun, and tons of damage?? {{champion:157}} Overloaded kit. {{champion:142}} Let me steal all your summoner spells then unleash all of them at once. Also if you get hit by my sleep, you lose 3/4 of your HP.
GreenLore (EUW)
: I'd argue that there are still enoug champs whose gameplay is considered to be mostly fine(Caitlyn being probably the best example),but who look worse than Talon.
Then this topic might as well extend to when (or if) Riot will focus on bringing these specific number of champs up-to-date visually without a full/partial rework.
: > [{quoted}](name=Andevar,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=XzqNAAnO,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-12-16T22:16:31.213+0000) > > Just looking at the ground between the 2 pictures is completely different. One is smooth and polished, like a typical Demacian place while the other looks rugged and cracked. Ryze'a vault is in Demacia tho...
His vault wasn't designed and created by Demacian engineers and carpenters. Nor is it regularly maintained by Ryze or Demacians to keep it as nice looking as the teaser's image.
prąyers (NA)
: Maybe it's just me, but the chain champion was probably already teased
Just looking at the ground between the 2 pictures is completely different. One is smooth and polished, like a typical Demacian place while the other looks rugged and cracked.
: Does anyone else feel that minions in Nexus Blitz follow WAY too far into the jungle?
When you're doing red buff and a minion is hiding behind it. Then their entire team appears and steals it from you. :(
Seth L9 (OCE)
: Counter assassins? More like counter mages and tanks/supports, cause that's what Banshee's was used for at least. To counter assassins you have to position properly, and keep track of them. Also GA counters assassins even without the MR. The fact that you have a 2nd life is beyond broken against assassins. I'd be down for bringing them back though, just revert Abyssal Mask please or make a new AP+MR item.
Agreed. As an Assassin player, seeing a GA is probably one of the most demoralizing things in the game. Not only is your full burst pretty much countered by a single item, but you have to factor in the enemy support that's stopping you from killing the GA holder in the first place. And even if you succeed, you get a 30 second ult timer before you can kill their GA holder again while they can get right back up and shit on everyone.
: Neeko needs to make a trade off: Her damage or its reliability
Her ult feels like a suicide bomb tbh. She can run it, hit R, and be almost unkillable because of her shield and stun/deal massive damage to a team. Her E is also easy to land and it dissuades you from playing from behind your minions, which exposes you to poke by her Q and passive. These two things are the only two things I really have issue with.
Exıtus (NA)
: Yeah. I would absolutely love some well thought out lore for Talon, but after what they did for Kat's bio with making her father sort of hate her, I'm a little worried they might change Talon's place among the Du Couteaus. I'd love for Talon and Kat's relationship to be built upon, and keep them as having that sort of older sis, younger bro punching bag thing but a little bit more fleshed out. Like maybe write interactions in a short story? Would love if he gained a more important role somewhere among Noxus too or at least have an interesting story of his own.
Since we're on the topic of updating Talon (which might as well include his lore), I agree that they should build on his relationship with the rest of the Du Couteau's. I believe that when (more like if -.-) his lore does come out, it'll shed more like on the Du Couteau family and their relationships with each other and the greater Noxus. Just as side-note, I believe Kat and Talon have a bit of a rivalry between them, just based on Kat's lore stating that Papa Du Couteau had raised others in her place just to spite her.
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Andevar

Level 148 (NA)
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