: yes , and then i face the same thing, people not getting matched by their rank nor skill my idea is that atleast on low mmr from iron to gold, there shouldn't be mixing of ranked tiers and there should also be lower mmr cap in normal games... on normal drafts i see the same thing, platinums playing like platinums getting matched against silver and golds playing like silver and golds.... i can even guess someones rank just by seeing them play in high percentage of cases X'D P.S , wasnt the Draft invented in order to allow people to practice for ranked? even tho it is sometimes used for casual play, people mostly use it as a way to play good games without the pressure of ranked... that doesn't seem so casual to me I myself can say i play casually because i dont put pressure on myself as if i would want something at all cost , but i still appreciate a good battle ...OK MomentOfVerity, go write a novel or something XD ...too much coffee
> [{quoted}](name=MomentOfVerity,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=18VV8L3s,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-11-29T22:05:01.378+0000) > > yes , and then i face the same thing, people not getting matched by their rank nor skill > > my idea is that atleast on low mmr from iron to gold, there shouldn't be mixing of ranked tiers and there should also be lower mmr cap in normal games... > > on normal drafts i see the same thing, platinums playing like platinums getting matched against silver and golds playing like silver and golds.... i can even guess someones rank just by seeing them play in high percentage of cases X'D > > P.S , wasnt the Draft invented in order to allow people to practice for ranked? even tho it is sometimes used for casual play, people mostly use it as a way to play good games without the pressure of ranked... that doesn't seem so casual to me > I myself can say i play casually because i dont put pressure on myself as if i would want something at all cost , but i still appreciate a good battle ...OK MomentOfVerity, go write a novel or something XD ...too much coffee You can't have that. If you had that, people wouldn't be able to play together. Think about it: what you're basically saying is Iron players can't play with friends. Do you know how many people are Iron? Like bottom 1% of League or something, how do you match them? Your system means they couldn't queue with their friends because of their terribly low elo (even bronze would be far too high). Bronze couldn't play with their gold friends because of the difference. That's like over 60% of League (Iron to Plat) who can't play together properly. Hence why League just averages mmr and gives you a game. Is it fair? No. Is it the best possible outcome? Yes. It's fine to lose: it's just a game.
BlackXIV (EUW)
: Keeping on repeating nonsense isn't going to make you less wrong. Either way if you think that the 4 roles of Jung, Mid, Bot and supp put together are more influential than top you're finally right but I don't see the relevance of the argument. Also I'm right, that's a fact. I said junglers are starved and they are, you said they are important but they're not more than bot, surely less than mid.
> [{quoted}](name=BlackXIV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NnlNi2xw,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-28T01:33:51.125+0000) > > Keeping on repeating nonsense isn't going to make you less wrong. > > Either way if you think that the 4 roles of Jung, Mid, Bot and supp put together are more influential than top you're finally right but I don't see the relevance of the argument. > > Also I'm right, that's a fact. I said junglers are starved and they are, you said they are important but they're not more than bot, surely less than mid. No, I think mid has importance and jungle as well. I don't think bot and support have importance (only food for mid), same for top (too far from important objective). What matters is ''botside'' not ''botlane''. It's about who's mid goes bot to dumpster them and who's mid allows everyone (except top) to be ahead. Junglers are a special case: they are starved if behind, hella ahead... When ahead. If you spam gank your midlane properly, you end up level 12 and the other jungler is level 8 or something... If you don't, you're fucked. But you still matter because you can help mid secure drake (and snowball) and that's why junglers matter.
Anhydrax (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Tr4shB4NSYST3M,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NnlNi2xw,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-11-27T00:42:41.392+0000) > > Unless the jg gets way ahead early, thats WAY more about who wins bot/mid and whether they're getting stomped or losing somewhat gracefully that they can still help. If 1 botlane hard wins (3+ kills pre 10) that team is far more likely to get the drags, unless their mid hard fed and the enemy mid rotates to support his jg. Nope, bot doesn't matter really. Mid gets tons of XP and bot gets a small XP, that means mid can easily destroy bot and snowball. So what jungle needs to do is gank mid to get him ahead so they both gank bot. Then, they take drake. So it's not about winning bot.. Bot is just food for the other two.
> [{quoted}](name=Anhydrax,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NnlNi2xw,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-27T01:19:20.479+0000) > > Nope, bot doesn't matter really. Mid gets tons of XP and bot gets a small XP, that means mid can easily destroy bot and snowball. So what jungle needs to do is gank mid to get him ahead so they both gank bot. Then, they take drake. > > So it's not about winning bot.. Bot is just food for the other two. Ah, sorry. I didn't notice this wasn't my post, I also made a post about the issue. But yeah, here's the reason why. It doesn't matter that they gave XP buffs to top because they gave that to mid as well and mid can use that XP buff to collapse on bot (who got an XP nerf as well) all game, top can't collapse on mid as much (because they have identical XP). That means that buffed mid fighting botside 3 times more than top. And the double herald was a nerf because while there is 2, they both suck.
BlackXIV (EUW)
: You think I'm wrong because you're a toplaner but as facts go you're wrong since you can take heralds, tp to drakes and splitpush but you don't. You focus your entire energy on laning and ragetyping.
> [{quoted}](name=BlackXIV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NnlNi2xw,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-11-27T02:54:22.871+0000) > > You think I'm wrong because you're a toplaner but as facts go you're wrong since you can take heralds, tp to drakes and splitpush but you don't. You focus your entire energy on laning and ragetyping. No, I think you're wrong because you are. Herald sucks now so that's moot as an argument, I explained plenty why TP doesn't work in this thread: long cooldown and there's too many fights botside, people fight between your TP cooldowns. That means if you TP for a drake, you TP into a very fed opponent or a very fed ally (meaning you get fucked or you fuck them). I also explained why splitpush doesn't work: splitpush only works if you pressuring a lane means they actually lose by not responding to you. Drakes are so valuable, if they do not respond to you and you get a turret but they get drake and win the fight there, they STILL win the exchange.
: Unless the jg gets way ahead early, thats WAY more about who wins bot/mid and whether they're getting stomped or losing somewhat gracefully that they can still help. If 1 botlane hard wins (3+ kills pre 10) that team is far more likely to get the drags, unless their mid hard fed and the enemy mid rotates to support his jg.
> [{quoted}](name=Tr4shB4NSYST3M,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NnlNi2xw,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-11-27T00:42:41.392+0000) > > Unless the jg gets way ahead early, thats WAY more about who wins bot/mid and whether they're getting stomped or losing somewhat gracefully that they can still help. If 1 botlane hard wins (3+ kills pre 10) that team is far more likely to get the drags, unless their mid hard fed and the enemy mid rotates to support his jg. Nope, bot doesn't matter really. Mid gets tons of XP and bot gets a small XP, that means mid can easily destroy bot and snowball. So what jungle needs to do is gank mid to get him ahead so they both gank bot. Then, they take drake. So it's not about winning bot.. Bot is just food for the other two.
: Wait what? Jg decides the game when they're even in level w/ botlane and 2 lvls behind solos on average? So your telling me, when i can't gank bot if my botlane is chunked and theirs is healthy, And can only gank solo lanes if my laner is ahead otherwise i risk just giving a free kill. Your telling me I DECIDE THE GAME? AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH delusional.
> [{quoted}](name=Tr4shB4NSYST3M,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NnlNi2xw,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-26T23:33:15.515+0000) > > Wait what? Jg decides the game when they're even in level w/ botlane and 2 lvls behind solos on average? > > So your telling me, when i can't gank bot if my botlane is chunked and theirs is healthy, And can only gank solo lanes if my laner is ahead otherwise i risk just giving a free kill. Your telling me I DECIDE THE GAME? AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH delusional. Yes, they do. This season is all about taking drakes, everyone knows that, so if you're the better jungler with the better mid, you win, otherwise, you lose. And hard: the jungler that gets behind falls like level 8 vs 12.
BlackXIV (EUW)
: Are you seriously complaining about jungle weight? Now that junglers are in their worst state of starvation since season 3? You toplaners really have to learn your macro before spreading nonsense.
> [{quoted}](name=BlackXIV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NnlNi2xw,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-26T23:26:15.302+0000) > > Are you seriously complaining about jungle weight? Now that junglers are in their worst state of starvation since season 3? > You toplaners really have to learn your macro before spreading nonsense. That's because you're wrong. Junglers are, with mid, the most important role. It's litterally better jungle mid wins because game is all about drakes. Top is the least important role.
: Rank should mean at least "something " in normal games matching
That's because you're wrong. The point of norms is casual <-- If rank was taken into account, even norms wouldn't be casual Problem is... You tryhard in norms; if you want people to be matched with exact rank... go do ranks, that's exactly what it is
: Hmmm soon renekton see play mid even more so after worlds where rene was picked nonstop. And soon mid was a thing sense tank meta
: so i guess we cant say renekton sion irelia cant be called toplaners because they are played mid? and malphite?
It means you listed 3 champs that don't represent toplane at all. Renekton and Sion are mostly non-existent mid. Same for Malphite who's Top and Jungle.
Mihalikb (EUW)
: I think it's HILARIOUS how Rito thinks they "buffed" the Rift Herald. Losing games over and over because the enemy team gets 2 drakes is piss annoying. Like a couple of games ago the enemy got first 2 drakes... Fire and Earth. I finally win my lane top and decide I'm getting 3rd drake no matter what. Ocean. Great. Wooooo. Lost game of course. Our Jungle was too busy chasing kills mid and farming top enemy jungle to care about drakes. Meanwhile enemy jungle was on the drakes every time one spawned.
I did my first double herald today. Didn't change a thing to the outcome of the game but hey... I did a double herald! LMAO.
: It wasn't terrible before?
Before, if I dumpstered my laner, I was fed and could splitpush or teamfight. Now, my splitpush has no value because it's more worth it to stay bot for them even if I take turrets and my teamfight sucks because by the time I teamfight, they have fought like 10 times and so are either far ahead or far behind.
: On the bright side, junglers don't have any reason anymore to camp top like they did for the past 2 seasons. But yeah, I'd like to go back to the old toplane concept: an island getting no perturbation from outside and impacting nothing until the mid to late game where you emerge as a killing machine the enemy team never saw before. Now whats happening is that you are a litteral clown behaving like a canon minion for about 10 minutes and, no matter how many times you kill the opposing canon minion, the 8 other players are still more relevant than you after those 10 minutes. Playing top nowadays is giving you 2 choices: A- you pick an absolutely overpowered cheesy pick and hope you are usefull in late teamfights, or B- You just say goodbye to any relevancy you might ever have in the game, period. Some people might argue that "typical" toplaners still have the power to splitpush, but oh surprise surprise, even f*cking ASSASSINS are now better at splitpushing than most toplaners. At this point, even supports are far more relevant than toplaners, even if several people complain about the new items.
Won't happen anymore because of gametime. I think the worst mistake Riot has made is reducing game length. If games lasted longer, it would be more interesting but I guess it's a decision they made.
: Midgame (around 18-20 mins) disagrees, Any self respecting top laner that won the lane decimates the enemy adc (and teamfights in general) using that level advantage (unless bot was a 10 kill stomp or something crazy like that). It's now doubly true since the level advantage is closer to 3 levels than 1.
That's the thing dude. Right now, botside is a kill stomp permanently. Because of the level lead from mid and bot lacking levels, mid goes bot and fights. And fights. AND FIGHTS. And so there's so much fighting botside, one of the two sides win those fights and whichever wins gets drakes. And that means when top fights the ADC, it's a 50/50 wether this ADC has 4 times has many kills and drakes or not. Also, if top shits on top and bot shits on bot... Bot grows a bigger lead than top because of the amount of people to shit on bot. Basically, you end up being one hella fed top monster vs their mid, adc, support and jungler being decently fed and that beats you.
: Further proof top laners will forever cry. You were the ONLY role that matter in s9 You got BUFFED to be one of the 2 roles that matters in s10. And you’re STILL CRYING. god. The hashinshin echo chamber continues on.
Litterally nothing in your comment is right. And in season 10, what matters is mid and botside as is stated plenty here. It's litterally a moshpit of fighting around drake, top has nothing to do with this. Though I don't often agree with Hashinshin (dude is 120% biased and can't balance properly), I think he agrees with this post. Would need to ask him though.
: I mean they completely destroyed rift herald. Even if you could get 3 of the new ones it wouldn't make the reworked herald better than a single old one. Moreover, whoever wins the deathball game wins the game now because of how the new drakes work.
I agree. Actually, the time you waste killing it is almost less worth than actually hitting a turret. And yeah, I've talked a lot about the deathball botside.
Garson211 (EUNE)
: i think at this moment only chance to balance this is nerf drakes a bit and add buff to herlad simillar to old mountain ( more damage to objectives) maybe this could turn game a bit. (other way its can made game even more snowballing dunno)
I think they need to change something about herald for sure but the biggest problem I think is the XP. With mid having tons more XP and bot having tons less XP, it creates a big difference in XP between two lanes next to eachother. That means mid is VERY encouraged to go bot all the time. And so, there's about 3-4 times more fights botside than there are topside. They need to give a reason for mid NOT to go stomp bot all the time.
BestGmers (EUNE)
: Top has no impact on game whatsoever you can win the lane but it's worthless I don't know why I even play top.. honestly I could just play mid and carry the shit out of them played aatrox couldn't do shit .. even fnatic said in one of their videos that they would prefer a feeding top laner because it's irrelevant
It's well-known a feeding top doesn't matter as much.
Charmy Bird (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Anhydrax,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zUvX5Hsy,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2019-11-22T21:12:06.892+0000) > > You are indeed throwing if you gank top because you are not ganking someone close to the drake and are also far away from the drake. Exactly. Why should I risk losing drake just to Gank a lane that isn't as impactful as mid or bot. Preseason so far is rl disappointing. Hopefully they fix things later but that's what we always say and it never happens.
I hope they do but I'm not sure they will. Hence why I brought it up here.
CyberPhobic (EUNE)
: Please for the love of god do something about junglers camping top.
: Right though theshy is one of the highly rated players who always carries as a toplaner? Not only that but he does 1v2 outlays all day. What scales better a gp/ryze/vlad or the brain dead adc that walks close enough to ryze to get hit by his combo then spamming ryze op in chat
The three champs you listed are both mid and toplaners and dont exactly represent every toplane champs, do they. He is a very good player though but one or two players (like TF blade) being good dont really mean toplane is a hotspot. Also, I am talking about preseason 10, not last season. I was fine with season 9.
: > [{quoted}](name=Anhydrax,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zUvX5Hsy,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-22T02:14:06.883+0000) > > Yes and no. Top was not as impactful as others last season either, but I'm comparing Season 9 to Season 10... And it's WORSE now. Teleport nerf means you take Ignite, which I'm overall fine with... If you can carry with the kills you get from Ignite. > > The problem is they made changes for Top that are meaningless like the double Herald. Doesn't matter if it can be taken twice when it won't even be taken once (because of Drake). Why wouldnt herald be taken? U solokill the enemy laner (since both junglers are at drake) and then u can take herald. U dont need a jungler to take herald.
In the very very early game, it still takes a while to take Herald solo especially if your champ isnt a good Herald taker. Spending all that time means wasting waves and you cant afford it really (especially since they buffed xp!). So Herald tends to get taken once the toplaner has a decent lead (like hes 3/0 or something). And because of that, only one Herald gets taken. Also, Herald is garbage so it basically doesnt even take a turrwt by itself. Taking two gives you like a turret and a half if the opponent dont stop it (which isnt too hard). Still not very menaingful.
: Just pretty much give your top counterpick for top, help keep tabs on the enemy jg so they dont get shafted by a jung camping, then farm drakes. Thats all this meta is for toplaners at this point. Also have them pick a champ that can solo rift easily so you can shove for inhib turrets at 10 or 15 minutes.
Exact, it is what I noticed. Yorick is good for this.
: > [{quoted}](name=Anhydrax,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zUvX5Hsy,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-11-22T08:18:51.411+0000) > > ... You seem to have failed to understand my entire post, somehow. In preseason 10, junglers don't even come top, what would removing a ward detecting plant change WHEN THEY DON'T GO TOPSIDE? I don't even put wards top anymore because if he comes, my jungler is more likely to get drake (even if I die) and if he doesn't, well... He doesn't, so warding doesn't matter. > > What makes top irrelevant is how monstruous drakes botside are and how powerful mid is. I do gank top as jungler, but only after drake. Once I remove bot side, get the drake, I come top to kill the top laner just to add insult to injury. Then I'll tell my top laner to go invade the enemy jungle because they can normally 1v1 anything and kill the jungler since they're like 2 levels ahead... Once people start figuring out the new mechanics in Season 10, they'll find out games are determined, not at the 10 minute mark like before, but at the 5minute mark... Whoever gained control of the first drake wins the game.. period. (Unless that team heavily messes up). You go from 1 drake, into top lane rotation, into enemy jungle invade, reset, do it again.. Now you're ahead, and you can do it even easier. Rinse repeat until you kill the nexus. gg.
Ganking top is a bad play in my opinion even if drake is down. If drake is down, gank bot-mid so you can secure next drake more easily.
: This is what top laners wanted and have been asking for though, less jungle ganks and more freedom to express skill through 1v1. You have TP to impact other areas of the map. Stop taking ignite almost every lane and when you do take TP, actually use it to impact other lanes instead of just using it as a free ticket back to lane. Rift herald was almost never an objective that promoted top lane action, it was almost always a top laner soloing it when they got ahead and could use their pressure to impact the game through either forcing their turret down faster for gold and to be able to rotate around the map, or to help take other laner's turrets, most often mid lane turret. I think you are getting things mixed up. They made conqueror too strong on mages and not strong enough on bruisers by comparison. That and the fact that first picking 90% of the time means you will have to verse something that counters you so hard that it's not fun to play against, where it's less about individual skill and more about who can just pick the better counter. I'm not saying the dragon changes are healthy or even balanced, all I'm saying is you are fighting for the wrong cause. Also, for the whole being 6 kills up and still the least relevant person on the team, I think that's just not true in almost every case. Being that far ahead means you will be stronger for when you teamfight, and will mean you open the map a lot harder since most top laners are especially good at killing towers compared to every other role. Good macro can take you far, just by doing simple things like splitting and either forcing 2 or more enemies to come at you and just running away, or putting massive dents in their base.
I explained all the things youre talking about in another comment. But I think you are mixing toplaners and hashinshin lmao. I am not all toplaners.. Just little old me. I never complained about getting ganked: it means theres value in stopping me and thats great. I explained why tp is meaningless as well: the difference in xp between mid and bot means mid can roam like 3-4 times between your tp cooldowns. So if I tp, I tp into people who are either very behind or very ahead. Bot scenarios make me irrelevant (I either get stomped as well or stomp harder with my team). Theres just too many fights to just use tp.
: Its not the easiest role; anyone who says that has never played it a day in their life. What is the easiest role is top lane. Top lane champions until recent years have traditionally had the lowest skill cap. Many of the still do. Not only that but the actual mechanics of the lane are brain dead; know how to manipulate your wave and ward. That's literally it. Other lanes have to do this as well as position well and watch other objectives. Honestly, I think everyone would be way happier if Top lane didn't exist because, in my experience, its top lane who feeds the most and since their champions are incredibly binary or incredibly overtuned, its impossible to actually stand against most top lane champions. Furthermore, there would be less top laners crying about how their role/champions/items got buffed in the wrong way *again.* Season, after fucking season its all about trying to stroke top laner's fragile egos and make them feel warm and special and fuzzy.
I agree, top is the easiest role in my opinion as well. I would say support is easy too, but having a bad one really impacts the game a lot whereas having a bad top doesnt as much. Also, the lane that feeds the most is botlane in my opinion. Because if someone loses, its 2 people dying. So .. Things snowball hard botlane.
: I wouldn't mind it really. If anything, bot and jungle do feed more than top and people who main ADC usually fail at the easiest role the game has to offer. Besides, Riot still has catered and continues to cater to bot laners way more than top despite our complaints and even after all the years, top lane is still shit and doesn't contribute to the game nearly as much as bot or jungle do. People don't joke when they say Riot doesn't have a single top laner on their balance team.
I dont mind toplane being less relevant. I mind not being relevant at all. You need roles for every type of people: people who lile solo carrying, people who lile helping others, people who like winning through objectives.. And of course they wont be equal because when things arent the same, they arent equal either. But now, one role is irrelevant so it needs fixing.
: No. There hasn't been. Top lane whines every season. Which is funny because they nerfed the two lanes that top lane whines about most into oblivion; bot and jungle. Its relieving to be moving away from this game, honestly, because I'm exhausted of them favoring whining top lane melee champions near constantly. Every change ever season is just another attempt to make entitled top laners happy and every season, it fails and they just whine more. At this point, I just wish they would come out with a game mode where only top and mid existed. Just delete the three other people in the game. Maybe top mains will STFU already.
Riot has always favored ADCs and midlane because those two make for interesting gameplay (and Im fine with favoring interesting gameplay). You seem to live in a strange world if you think they favor top.
: Toplane hasn't ALWAYS been terrible, it just got steadily worse and worse every season ever since the juggernaut rework. I'd like to say it's now at rock bottom, but knowing Riot, they'll find another way to make it worse by mid-season.
I havent played in season 1 and stuff either, but I think it has always been the least important lane in every season which I am somewhat fine with: I dont expect perfection.
: Has there been a single season where top laners didn't say that top was terrible?
By concept, top is the worst lane but I didnt mind it last season. Now, it is completely irrelevant. I dont mind LESS relevant, I mind NOT relevant.
: On the good side better dragons and worse rift might mean less jungle camping for top? Right?
Yep, they dont come top at all. But it doesnt exactly matter: even if they let me dumpster their top, it still doesnt mean a win.
evolvox (EUNE)
: I guess TOP was or is relevant to be for mid/late game 5v5 team fights when enemy goes all mid or roams around. Also that's why you pick teleport in TOP. So you can go help other lanes for a bit and then teleport back to your lane.
That would be true for last season, yes. Last season, you could win lane and put pressure on the map forcing the opponents to respond. If you got fed, you could also somewhat fight their botlane or midlane during teamfights. None of this is true right now though. Drake holds so much value, even if you pressure by holding a turret hostage " if you go bot I take turret ", it is still worth for them to ignore you and go drake. So you cant pressure. Lets say you go 8/0, you get a lot of gold and therefore a big shutdown. The opponents though, if they get drake, get tons of strength and your botside gets dumpstered. Then, in teamfigt, they shutdown you and get even more gold whereas you cant shutdown them (especially since you cant shutdown the drakes or the soul technically). Also, teleport allows to contest the drake and you are right. But the xp changes really buffed mid hard so they go bot all the time... Like every wave. So with teleport, you can tp bot every something like 3-4 fights. That means once you tp to contest drake, your tesm either won 3-4 fighta or lost 3-4 fights.... So by coming, you either win or get destroyed anyway. Not sure if I explained it properly enough.
: > [{quoted}](name=Worst JG Wins,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zUvX5Hsy,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2019-11-22T18:34:05.139+0000) > > Blah blah blah. > > Look bud don't take it from me Top lane is OP as fuck. Take if from a multi season challenger top laner. > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INF-c48T7M0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INF-c48T7M0) Honestly,it's pretty hard arguing with people who can't see the problem from both sides,my only question remains:If top lane is the most powerful,why don't you main it so you can carry more games?You should try to play it for a minimum of 20 games and see what is like,to make your opinion more plausible.
> [{quoted}](name=TSM Reptilian,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zUvX5Hsy,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-22T21:00:45.724+0000) > > Honestly,it's pretty hard arguing with people who can't see the problem from both sides,my only question remains:If top lane is the most powerful,why don't you main it so you can carry more games?You should try to play it for a minimum of 20 games and see what is like,to make your opinion more plausible. Sidenote, you can still play a lane you enjoy more even if its not the best one. I play top and mid but my best, by far, is jungle. Its just about the fun fsctor so dont use that as an argument. It is true is logic seems flawed though.
: Top lane mains are actually just crazy. You play the the second most powerful role in the game and players like TF Blade and Theshy have already conclusively proven you can hard carry in both Solo Q and Pro play. Just stop already this shit it's embarrassing. Top lane mains- OMG the JG is camping my lane it's not fair also Top lane mains- OMG the JG never comes top Top lane mains- OMG the jungler is 1 level above me for a 30 second gank window at level 2:40 also Top lane mains- OMG i'm so weak, i'm only 4 levels above ADC, JG and Support for half the game i'm so irrelevant Top lane mains- OMG Rift herald is so irrelevant compared to dragon also top lane mains- Takes Ignite over TP to win the lane harder almost every game, uses TP for a small amount of XP instead saving it for teamfights around dragon.
Toplane has basically always been the least important lane by concept. There is some powershift depending on what type of champ is broken (like tank meta) but the actual lane was and still is the least important due to its distance from objectives. Because amazing players carry in it doesnt mean the lane is amazing: if you think TF Blade is a normal player, you are insane at best. Last season, it was less relevant but still relevant. Now it is not relevant. I was fine with its state last season.
: I mean, all I have done is play top lane since the Pre-season just opened. And I have carried every game.....so I am not seeing it. I agree that top lane doesn't have the objectives like bot lane does with dragons being so much stronger now.
I would have to check your games.
: How weird is that. About 10 minutes ago, this thread and EVERY single comment defending toplane has been downvoted 4 times in the space of mere seconds. At the same time, a certain comment completely insulting anything related to toplane rose to the top in mere seconds, boasting 4 upvotes almost instantly after getting posted. https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7buirYcmV5nSwIRW/giphy.gif
It is fine, everyone has the right to their opinion.
Vlada Cut (EUNE)
: Solo XP changes were too suspicious to me, even if it helped Top lane outlevel enemy ADC it was a clear buff that made mid lane more broken than ever.
I wasnt sure about it either the first time. Mid got buffs without nerfs. Top got some nerfs. And mid can easily push that xp advantage on bot whereas top cant.
Hügö (EUW)
: Tbf drakes are way to overrated compared to having 2 herals.
They are not overrated. The herald is terrible and got massively nerfed. Drakes win a game, heralds take one turret or something. And they are very easy to stop now since they lose all their hp almost by hitting turrets. The thing is drakes get you more turrets over time than herald.
: I agree. I just did a conquer ezreal game where my ornn was amazing, yet he had very little in terms of impact until it was late game after we were up a few dragons. the enemy team got the herald, yet, I was able to kill it in 3 shots before it even did anything. it's a terrible "win more" objective and needs a rework as shelly deserves something better. if riot wants to make top lane matter, what they need to do is nerf the dragons and maybe add some objectives they can grab aka mercenaries in heroes of the storm. hell, make vilemaw an objective near top that they can kill like baron. have it do a lesser version of the current dragon soul you have.
Yes, it is basically what I am saying. I would love mercenaries. I believe Ornn is going to be strongish this season because while he is irrelevant top, he can at least upgrade the items on your midlaner and stuff or something. I was actually considering playing Gangplank or Karthus top and be relevant through my ult. Shen is another one.
: Delete top lane. Add a split lane in bottom for a 2v2 and a 1v1 right next each other. I'm just joking. Or am I?
I actually think the map shouldnt be symetrical. It is hard to make an interesting map!
: Just put dragon top. I honestly have stopped playing ever since I saw the preseason changes because I'm exhausted and tired as a bot laner of them trying desperately to make top lane happy by nerfing the shit out of my lane and my champions and by make it near imperative that I have the entire team down there. I don't get to play the fucking game. Its fucking shitty. They keep making bot lane the literal worst place to play; meanwhile, top is still whining and still unhappy even though their champions, lane, runes, and items are buffed and overtuned every fucking preseason.
Putting the dragon top would just switch lanes. Lane roles in league are chosen according to the map, so it goes something like this since before Herald existed: There is an objective botside (dragon). Therefore, lets put our carry (adc) next to it because he is the important champ to gank and after you gank, you can get an objective. Now, the carry gets owned if alone so he needs babysitting. Put a support in his lane to help him to his powerspike. What kills ADCs? Mages and assassins. Lets put them in the closest lane to them (mid). This way, they have solo xp so they are ahead of bot and can roam there to shutdown the opponent or push a lead. Jungle, you put something that ganks nicely but its depending on the meta. Anything pertinent to winning the game. And then top, you put whatever is left there. Often a tank because you wanted a meatshield for teamfights once your carry is ahead. If you switch where the objectives are, you just move people around as well. The positions didnt change much because drake remains the best objective. Though, right now, the chanfes to dragons mean early game is very important. And that means youre gonna see early game ADCs being played or... Heimerdinger bot stuff ! Whatever secures drake better.
: I can be ask to bother playing top this season just playing it I already feel like i'm left to my on device for better or worse. If I'm in a favorable cool I can do something but if not my already hatred for my team rises since i'm simply ignored because god forbid mid and bot lose any power over the game. TP'ing down to bot or jungle for a fight gives my team more power but then I'm falling behind cause my lane opponent easily get two or three plates by the time I go back and painfully walk into lane hoping there a turret. I tried jungle but I can barely feel any impact what I'm doing when I try getting ganks in but all I get is players who to pussy to do something or incompetent to get ready when I come. Then they start ping my level or type out my kda when I'm behind and I give them good minute to prepare when I'm walkling down for a gank. And then having watch as no one ward dragon or prepare to fight for it I just watch the dragon be taken for 40th billionth time while they have they have their thumbs up their asses acting like not having a dragon isn't gonna impact the game at all. At this point it lose lose situation may I just practice being a support and actual have a impact in the game.
Maybe your jungling is not the best, I cant tell, but botlane got hit hard somewhat. They are relevant to the game, but playing there is not enjoyable: every minute you get ganked by the midlaner who is 2 levels ahead of you (or 3 sometimes). Its not a 2v2, its a 2v3 or 3v2 depending on whos midlane won. So botlane, you either win hard or lose hard, depending a lot on your midlaner.
Garson211 (EUNE)
: I love peples defending this by saying "its only second day of preseson". im sure it will never ends "its first week" "its just first month" "Ok dont worry they fix it mid season patch" "w/e we start new preseson soon"
People who use this as an argument just show they are quite slow. If you need a year to understand how a change... Changes thing, you are jut not the brightest lamp. The consequences are pretty obvious even by just actually reading the patch.
Garson211 (EUNE)
: Nerf mages?Or batter create more mr items to counter it dunno. i can tell you my last game.Played jungle i decide to gank and camp bot only,sometimes mid and ignore top at all.Enemy jungler camp and gank top more than any other lane.Riven on top vs Darius feed both of them hardly but in same time i "feed" my Jhin and Nautilius and we took 2 drakes (they took both heralds 1 drake)Guess who won? We are coz our bot was so ahead that he can insta kill feed Darius and Khazix but in same time even Riven can take care of enemy adc.So in my opinion bot is more important than ever,nothing new huh? Top still is lane with no impact to the game till dunno 25min?,its just exist.
I am not sure how to create an exciting preseason but I know they should remove the changes. The XP changes mean mid can dumpster bot when they roam so its toxic gameplay for botlane and the drake changes means all the action is botside as well. The only change I am 100% sure is good is the alcoves. Also, even late game, top has no impact because either you help finish the game for your team or just die to the opponents and give them your shutdown.. Which helps them.
Charmy Bird (EUNE)
: As a jg gankiing top feels like self sabotage at this point. With how important drakes are everybodu just rushes bot yet again. With the new drakes I can't see any way riot to make top relevant they totally missed the mark.
You are indeed throwing if you gank top because you are not ganking someone close to the drake and are also far away from the drake.
: In order to make top relevant they would need to remove ward detecting plants and give junglers a warding item for better vision top to see when enemy jungler is coming, they wont do it because it makes LCS less exciting to watch.
... You seem to have failed to understand my entire post, somehow. In preseason 10, junglers don't even come top, what would removing a ward detecting plant change WHEN THEY DON'T GO TOPSIDE? I don't even put wards top anymore because if he comes, my jungler is more likely to get drake (even if I die) and if he doesn't, well... He doesn't, so warding doesn't matter. What makes top irrelevant is how monstruous drakes botside are and how powerful mid is.
Dextrid (EUNE)
: JUST REMOVE YASUO SHIELD
People pick him because of his fun factor, not his strength. Dude could be 49% winrate, he'd still be picked a shitton. So to answer you: no.
5050BS (NA)
: Even with lowered XP Jungle is the most influential Role
Actually, it's not mid and bot controlling... It's just mid. Better mid wins lane, gets tons of XP, moves bot, dumpsters bot because they buffed mid XP and nerfed bot XP, jungler comes and takes drake. Now one botside has a bigger lead and dumpsters the other side with their support not having to spend gold on support item. Repeat. So if you're talking about impact, it's mid, then jungler... then bot. And top has none, probably top's worst season actually. Can't eve splitpush.
Zira (NA)
: Dragons seem to be very difficult to balance. They've been altered significantly every season. They give too much gold. They give too little. Too much power. Too little. Don't offer enough variety. I really wish they'd just do a 20% damage nerf on EVERYTHING (Champs, skills, items, objectives), and then these buffs to dragon would seem more reasonable.
Nerfing overall damage would make games last longer and Riot has been trying to make games faster and faster and faster. So no.
: im guessing rift buffs will come in. Also you can get 2 rift heralds at the moment but people just want to test the drags out
It's not as easy to get 2 rifts. Drakes are super strong compared to Rifts (which actually got nerfed). Both junglers play around bot only and the Rift gets taken solo by the toplaner that wins. And he doesn't have time to take two and deal with his lane... So at best, you get one and it's not that good.
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Anhydrax

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