: When did we all become babies?!
Giving participation trophies to kids for earning nothing. I attribute that partly to kids not being able to handle criticism and real adult feelings that are essential catalysts to growth.
rujitra (NA)
: FCC has nothing to do with Riot as Riot is not a telecommunications service. BBB will certainly forward your complaint to Riot but there is no guarantee they'll respond that way. Why don't you start by telling us what your problem that needs resolution is and what steps, if any, you've taken to resolve it, and a screenshot of the problem you're having with the support site?
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=vEsw1iTc,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-05T21:53:57.404+0000) > > Why don't you start by telling us what your problem that needs resolution is and what steps, if any, you've taken to resolve it, and a screenshot of the problem you're having with the support site? So you can just tell him he's toxic and shame him?
: > [{quoted}](name=Apricot Jams,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=yotFqwUg,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-02-05T20:07:51.757+0000) > > "just shows how toxic you really are" lmao. > > These people are obviously venting frustration, and that's only toxic to overly-sensitive people who can't handle adult emotions. It's riots (and the mods) job to thoughtfully listen for nuance, and do something with the feedback, but hey, it's easier to just downvote, shame, delete commends and move on. If you're fine with people venting frustration, why are you not fine with people venting frustration on the boards in response to the poor behavior?
> [{quoted}](name=AeroWaffle,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=yotFqwUg,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-02-05T22:48:41.303+0000) > > If you're fine with people venting frustration, why are you not fine with people venting frustration on the boards in response to the poor behavior? I **am ** fine with that. What I'm not fine with is people misrepresenting me and putting words in my mouth, like you just did.
rujitra (NA)
: As the other poster said, you’re more than welcome to upload your discussion if you think it was incorrect or you disagree with it. That being said, in my time reading the boards, I have yet to see a case where someone was unsatisfied with support where there was actually an issue with the support they were provided.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9y3oHuVF,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-11-12T03:07:15.922+0000) > > As the other poster said, you’re more than welcome to upload your discussion if you think it was incorrect or you disagree with it. > > That being said, in my time reading the boards, I have yet to see a case where someone was unsatisfied with support where there was actually an issue with the support they were provided. That's because you agree with Riot's commodious definition of toxicity. You also don't play ranked games, which is where most of the toxicity is.
: you know guys.. the "F*** you riot" posts don't help right? Just shows how toxic you actually are
"just shows how toxic you really are" lmao. These people are obviously venting frustration, and that's only toxic to overly-sensitive people who can't handle adult emotions. It's riots (and the mods) job to thoughtfully listen for nuance, and do something with the feedback, but hey, it's easier to just downvote, shame, delete commends and move on.
: I've seen people go from 10 game chat restriction to permanent suspension over mild words
Riot thinks its okay to give the same punishments to the dude using hatespeech and the dude criticising his teammates mistakes. They just label both with their flimsy, generic redefinition of the word "toxic" and call it a day. They don't want to spend thought or money on fixing the system and the _thoughtful and kind mods on this board_ think riot can do no wrong and just go with it. kappa
: > [{quoted}](name=Apricot Jams,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=idLOABwO,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-02-03T20:42:37.376+0000) > > and the perfect, flawless discipline system as it stands has no way of catching these people, the ones who are ACTUALLY toxic. But if you call them out on their bullshit, you get punished. makes sense cool story bro. wtf are you saying?
> [{quoted}](name=VonToothskie,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=idLOABwO,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-02-04T04:17:48.808+0000) > > wtf are you saying? take a guess
Hotarµ (NA)
: People who put down off meta builds are just jerks most of the time. I will say that first timing a new build in ranked shouldn't be acceptable though. Play what you know, play to win, for everything else, play norms.
> [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rAnK9veg,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-27T04:58:33.717+0000) > > People who put down off meta builds are just jerks most of the time. I will say that first timing a new build in ranked shouldn't be acceptable though. > > Play what you know, play to win, for everything else, play norms. mastercard... is that you?
: Ranked is a joke.
its luck of the draw man. get used to it. if you like this game, you gotta realize its about working with how lucky/unlucky you get. People like to yap about mmr and elo and blah blah blah, but even in high elo (based on what i see with streamers up there), its still about which team gets the fewest braindead fuckheads. Truth.
: Im no longer buying rp till u remove the toxic players
until they fix the terrible discipline system, nothing will change.
: I get permanently banned
Join the club dude. I'm on my 5th account. Riot thinks its okay to steal people's money. That's just what way it is. I recommend you not spend a dime on your new account.
: Perma Ban
Yeap it's definitely going downhill per last years earnings. Anyone that comes here speaking out about permas is downvoted to oblivion. Companies that ignore real feedback and think they're always right are doomed.
BradNo (NA)
: No, they are calculating what you reported them for.
> [{quoted}](name=BradNo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xXEjM4oV,comment-id=00090000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-04T00:40:14.053+0000) > > No, they are calculating what you reported them for. ah so they're essentially calculating if you're falsely reporting, which can also hurt you if it doesn't align with how toxic the ai thought they were.
BradNo (NA)
: they do.
> [{quoted}](name=BradNo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xXEjM4oV,comment-id=000900000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-04T00:15:11.083+0000) > > they do. then reports dont matter if theyre always calculating "toxicity"
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: Apart from the fact that at least one report is needed to trigger a review: Generating data for the machine learning system. It also helps identify outliers. People who get reported a lot without being punished by the system may warrant a manual review to make sure that player has not found a way to game the system.
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xXEjM4oV,comment-id=0009000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-04T00:04:08.927+0000) > > Apart from the fact that at least one report is needed to trigger a review: Generating data for the machine learning system. > It also helps identify outliers. People who get reported a lot without being punished by the system may warrant a manual review to make sure that player has not found a way to game the system. I'll pass. The machines learning system is clearly trash since the rift is riddled with toxic players so I'll stick to sarcastic comments, thanks.
BradNo (NA)
: You report people if they did something wrong. Whether they get banned is a different story.
> [{quoted}](name=BradNo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xXEjM4oV,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-03T23:50:20.417+0000) > > You report people if they did something wrong. Whether they get banned is a different story. well it sounds like they have measures in place to measure toxicity regardless of reports
NekoMahou (EUW)
: Permabanned wrongly for 1 game ? (chat log included)
less qq more pew pew. type less play more.
BradNo (NA)
: Multiple reports don't affect the system more or less than just one report. And I'm not being sarcastic when I am calling the Yasuo "Trash."
> [{quoted}](name=BradNo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xXEjM4oV,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-02-03T23:34:39.865+0000) > > Multiple reports don't affect the system more or less than just one report. > I don't buy it. But let's say I did, so then what's the point of even reporting?
BradNo (NA)
: What words can I use to insult my teammates?
just do what i do and sarcastically say "Great job man keep it up". Tilts them just the same, gets you banned just the same, but at least you can laugh at your own comment.
Algido (NA)
: Request: A list of profanity, abbreviations, slurs, and phrases that are punishable
its a lost cause trying to make sense of their dumb ai's punishment strategies. Forget about it. Just don't type or be like me and type all the time and keep getting banned.
: #EndLeagueNarcissism
sounds like ur smokin that good stuff
: PSA: According to Riot, a teammate can in fact ban your hovered champ and it's not punishable.
Completely agree with you. People like that are the ones who are truly toxic, but riot doesn't care they just want your money.
: Does reporting people ACTUALLY do anything?
makes it easier for riot to arbitrarily ban ppl who dont spend enough $
: This is why we have no power over the course of the game. They don't listen to the people who disagree with their systems. They do everything they can to attempt to knock us down if we try to stand up. I've learned to just not type at all. It sucks because it takes away a lot of the communication possibilities with a competitive game like this but you just never know what someone will perceive as flame or toxicity. I had a veigar in one of my games who got counter picked and was playing poorly around it. I never once flamed him, trash talked him, etc. But I went to counter gank for him since the enemy botlane had rotated up. I was focusing the Draven since he was squishy and had no escape. Veigar chains Draven and Blitzcrank. I immediately start attacking Draven, get him to 15% HP and then proceed to get one shot cause Draven. I noticed thst Veigar was chasing blitz so I asked "why focus blitz there? I nearly killed Draven." To which he responds "Stop flaming, I could've killed blitz." I didn't respond negatively, I said that I was sorry if he thought I was flaming, I just wanted to help improve his group fights by telling him the priority champs to focus. He then asks for a report on the sejuani (me) to which I say "I was just asking why he focused a certain person and trying to give him advice, I'm not trying to flame him at all." I had good intentions with my messages but the veigar was probably in a bad mood and looking to lash out. Which made him think I was flaming and targetted me. He spent the rest of the game flaming me, calling for x9s and saying I was flaming him. I reported him, after apologizing again and he just kept saying that I flamed him and it's my fault he lost lane. These are the players who keep their accounts. You basically have to disable chat to avoid saying anything that could possibly be mistaken as flame because, I was told this by a rioter and if I need to find the logs I will, it doesn't matter how YOU intend your message to be perceived, it's how Riot interprets it. This dance is a never ending game of musical chairs and I highly doubt we will see any changes for the better. The system is flawed for a game like this but we can't say that because it's clearly wrong.
> [{quoted}](name=theSirBart,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bOqt4mtO,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-02T04:55:21.982+0000) > > This is why we have no power over the course of the game. They don't listen to the people who disagree with their systems. They do everything they can to attempt to knock us down if we try to stand up. I've learned to just not type at all. It sucks because it takes away a lot of the communication possibilities with a competitive game like this but you just never know what someone will perceive as flame or toxicity. I had a veigar in one of my games who got counter picked and was playing poorly around it. I never once flamed him, trash talked him, etc. But I went to counter gank for him since the enemy botlane had rotated up. I was focusing the Draven since he was squishy and had no escape. Veigar chains Draven and Blitzcrank. I immediately start attacking Draven, get him to 15% HP and then proceed to get one shot cause Draven. I noticed thst Veigar was chasing blitz so I asked "why focus blitz there? I nearly killed Draven." To which he responds "Stop flaming, I could've killed blitz." I didn't respond negatively, I said that I was sorry if he thought I was flaming, I just wanted to help improve his group fights by telling him the priority champs to focus. He then asks for a report on the sejuani (me) to which I say "I was just asking why he focused a certain person and trying to give him advice, I'm not trying to flame him at all." I had good intentions with my messages but the veigar was probably in a bad mood and looking to lash out. Which made him think I was flaming and targetted me. He spent the rest of the game flaming me, calling for x9s and saying I was flaming him. I reported him, after apologizing again and he just kept saying that I flamed him and it's my fault he lost lane. These are the players who keep their accounts. You basically have to disable chat to avoid saying anything that could possibly be mistaken as flame because, I was told this by a rioter and if I need to find the logs I will, it doesn't matter how YOU intend your message to be perceived, it's how Riot interprets it. This dance is a never ending game of musical chairs and I highly doubt we will see any changes for the better. The system is flawed for a game like this but we can't say that because it's clearly wrong. and the mods will continue to harass people and delete their messages theres no point in talking about it here either. They can be as rude as they want to people but when we speak back, they silence us. Sounds a lot like the game. Now I'm feeling like the most abusive poeple are the rioters playing the game because we cant touch them, but they sure can touch us.
HdFame (NA)
: Banned
If you've come for understanding people, you've come to the wrong place. These guys will always take riots side cuz they're hypnotized by the skins with titties. I on the other hand agree that if they were a decent company they would give you your account back after 4 years, but they're not, and they prefer you make a new account and rebuy all your shit again.
Ynam3190 (NA)
: RIOT ought to do something about own team banning ur picks
a simple "are you sure you want to ban this champ? Someone has declared it" would suffice. But Riot is a perfect company and only makes the right choices how dare you question them KAPPA
: Need help understanding why I am banned...
If you're looking for understanding, you've come to the wrong place. Most of the people on this board will just tell you riot knows what they're doing and you deserved it. If you ask me, ill tell you their discipline system is a joke and a piece of shit, but riot can do whatever they want cuz they're the ones with the money. Good luck on your next account.
: Riot will arbitrarily ban your account.
Yep. Been there. Don't bother. They will always take the side of their ai and will NEVER look at game footage or review context. It's just easier, plus they bank on you rebuying all your shit. Good luck with your next account.
: > [{quoted}](name=Apricot Jams,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bOqt4mtO,comment-id=00180000,timestamp=2019-02-01T18:00:14.631+0000) > > can't wait to see how fast you'll start singing a different tune if you ever get unjustly banned. Depends on what you mean by unjust. If I break the rules and am punished for it, then I can only be mad at myself since the ban would be justified. If however I got banned when I didn't break any rules, I would be irritated but I'd contact Riot and slog through their support till it was straightened out.
> [{quoted}](name=Hazyshd,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bOqt4mtO,comment-id=001800000000,timestamp=2019-02-01T21:57:04.006+0000) > > Depends on what you mean by unjust. > > If I break the rules and am punished for it, then I can only be mad at myself since the ban would be justified. > > If however I got banned when I didn't break any rules, I would be irritated but I'd contact Riot and slog through their support till it was straightened out. I hope you never have to deal with that, but if you do, then you'll understand where I'm coming from. They'll point to even the slightest shred of negativity and tell you that you deserved it.
Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Apricot Jams,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FxGpAhAH,comment-id=000a0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-01T21:32:24.137+0000) > > It was a year ago so I don't have chat logs but same game i was also heavily flamed by my teammates for doing bad and told them i was just having a bad game, they continued to flame, so i muted them but spam pinged every time they died because i had to get my emotions out some way. I don't think that deserves equal punishment to their instigation and abuse, but I guess you do. We obviously disagree on that and that's fine. Though it's unfortunate you had a bad experience there I do think ping spamming them was immature on your part. I'm no saint myself as I yell and rage at the screen when I'm mad, but never in chat, and I don't resort to things like ping spamming either. > If the system worked, I would have seen some change over the years, but I havent. When i had created a new account and was silent and good for months, I didn't see less trolls and still don't see less trolls, it's the same frequency as it's always been. So either riot flagged my ip and constantly qeues me up with negative people (which seems ridiculous), or the system doesn't work. Do you know something I dont? I can only speak from my personal experience, which is while I have seen my fair share of trolls and jerks those are few and far between. And maybe this is partially because I mostly play co-op vs. ai (which according to a Riot panel a couple years ago (Lyte era) is the least toxic mode so take from that what you will) but I mostly encounter neutral or positive players. As for you I see no real or valid reason as to why Riot would flag you specifically, though if I'm being honest it's not the first time I've heard that conspiracy theory. Only suggestions I can offer there are to consider playing other modes aside from Normal and/or Ranked and/or try looking to see if your own behavioral tendencies is leading to an uptick in trolls in your games.
> [{quoted}](name=Prandine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FxGpAhAH,comment-id=000a00030000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-01T21:47:43.743+0000) > > Though it's unfortunate you had a bad experience there I do think ping spamming them was immature on your part. I'm no saint myself as I yell and rage at the screen when I'm mad, but never in chat, and I don't resort to things like ping spamming either. > Correct, it's immature but it's not ban worthy toxic. > I can only speak from my personal experience, which is while I have seen my fair share of trolls and jerks those are few and far between. And maybe this is partially because I mostly play co-op vs. ai (which according to a Riot panel a couple years ago (Lyte era) is the least toxic mode so take from that what you will) but I mostly encounter neutral or positive players. > there you go. There's nothing on the line in coop vs ai. Ranked is fun for me because I'm competitive, but most people can't handle the pressure and turn into giant smelly assholes. You should try it and see for yourself how emotional people can get. Maybe the discipline system cleaned up the less competitive game modes, but it's done nothing in ranked, in my experience. > As for you I see no real or valid reason as to why Riot would flag you specifically, though if I'm being honest it's not the first time I've heard that conspiracy theory. Only suggestions I can offer there are to consider playing other modes aside from Normal and/or Ranked and/or try looking to see if your own behavioral tendencies is leading to an uptick in trolls in your games. They control the data and how it's used so I wouldn't be surprised. I like ranked so I'm gonna keep playing it. It is what it is. I'm just voicing my perspective on here hoping it gets to the right people. Thanks for being reasonable.
Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Apricot Jams,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FxGpAhAH,comment-id=000a00030000,timestamp=2019-02-01T21:07:11.918+0000) > > Correct. There's a line, but in league the line is very blurry and riots ai equally punish the SUPER toxic people and the people simply replying back to toxic assholes to defend their integrity. It's lazy discipline. There's a huge difference between being a little negative and being an hateful asshole, but riot doesn't see it that way. Punishment isn't in tiers, they just carpet bomb everyone because its easier. I disagree, as if that were the case then everyone would have at least one punishment for even one angry outburst. Thankfully the IFS has some built-in leniency and under normal circumstances only punishes those who show a consistent pattern of poor behavior (gameplay trolling and ZTP offenses aside) while also allowing those who show consistent trends of neutral or positive behavior to slowly get their account back in good standing. As for "defending ones integrity" the people who say they do that usually do so with negative behavior of their own rather than remaining neutral or positive or just muting them. Just like irl if two people are fighting then the store will ask both to leave regardless of who started it as both are causing a disturbance/negative experience for the other customers. Could the IFS be improved? Absolutely. Should it let retaliaters off the hook simply because they didn't start it? Imo no. EDIT: In response to your edit I think there's more to the story than you're letting on. If you had chat logs (posted in its own thread of course) then maybe that could be discussed in more detail.
> [{quoted}](name=Prandine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FxGpAhAH,comment-id=000a000300000000,timestamp=2019-02-01T21:14:55.899+0000) > > I disagree, as if that were the case then everyone would have at least one punishment for even one angry outburst. Thankfully the IFS has some built-in leniency and under normal circumstances only punishes those who show a consistent pattern of poor behavior (gameplay trolling and ZTP offenses aside) while also allowing those who show consistent trends of neutral or positive behavior to slowly get their account back in good standing. > > As for "defending ones integrity" the people who say they do that usually do so with negative behavior of their own rather than remaining neutral or positive or just muting them. Just like irl if two people are fighting then the store will ask both to leave regardless of who started it as both are causing a disturbance/negative experience for the other customers. > > Could the IFS be improved? Absolutely. Should it let retaliaters off the hook simply because they didn't start it? Imo no. > > EDIT: In response to your edit I think there's more to the story than you're letting on. If you had chat logs (posted in its own thread of course) then maybe that could be discussed in more detail. It was a year ago so I don't have chat logs but same game i was also heavily flamed by my teammates for doing bad and told them i was just having a bad game, they continued to flame, so i muted them but spam pinged every time they died because i had to get my emotions out some way. I don't think that deserves equal punishment to their instigation and abuse, but I guess you do. We obviously disagree on that and that's fine. If the system worked, I would have seen some change over the years, but I havent. When i had created a new account and was silent and good for months, I didn't see less trolls and still don't see less trolls, it's the same frequency as it's always been. So either riot flagged my ip and constantly qeues me up with negative people (which seems ridiculous), or the system doesn't work. Do you know something I dont?
Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Apricot Jams,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FxGpAhAH,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-02-01T18:06:08.675+0000) > > 100%. Banter and trash talk is a part of literally EVERY competitive sport, but riot redefined what "toxic" means so they can just ban people for silly bs, taking away everything they've earned, knowing full well that they're addicted to the game and will come back to spend more money. Business is business my guy, and they're banking on the all SJW snowflakes in the world (and on this board) to back them up wit their tears. To quote [Baron Barian](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/kWXhQ1c1-banned-for-2-weeks-hahahaha-wtf?sort_type=recent&comment=0009): >There's trash talking, and then there's talking like trash. Don't think twice before you talk. Think 5 times. From [Ulanopo's Knowledge Base](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4086541&page=5#post43595629): >**Trash talk is part of all competitive sports. It happens all the time in the pros.** >Yes and no. Yes, trash talk occurs, but it has definite limits. Most of the things that are punished in game (racial, ethnic and homophobic slurs, sexism, etc.) would also earn you a hefty fine in professional sports. >A Tumblr List of NBA Fines (http://nbafines.tumblr.com/) (My personal favorite on that site is this indefinite suspension (http://nbafines.tumblr.com/post/1010368028/3-12-96-the-nba-suspended-mahmoud-abdul-rauf-den), simply for refusing to stand during the National Anthem.) >A List of NFL Fines for Taunting (https://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/fines-appeals/) >NBC Article on Fines Agreed to by the NFLPA (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/01/bizarrely-specific-nfl-fines-come-from-agreed-league-union-schedule/) "Excessive profanity or other unsportsmanlike conduct triggers a minimum fine of $10,500." >NHL Office of Player Safety (http://www.nhl.com/ice/eventhome.htm?location=/playersafety) Brendan Shanahan is the ****ing Bad Santa of the NHL. Did you know that his Office of Player Safety watches every minute of every game, from multiple angles? He sees and hears EVERYTHING, including swearing. >... and the grand finale! Marge Schott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marge_Schott), who was forced out of ownership of the Cincinnati Reds for racist comments and pro-Nazi sentiments. https://lol.gamepedia.com/List_of_Competitive_Rulings P.S. As explained to you many times Riot doesn't want permabanned players to come back but they cannot stop them from doing so without causing collateral damage. You even acknowledge the fact that Riot doesn't force players to make new accounts or to spend money yet you keep making this argument anyways. Long story short you can try to use the money argument all you want but it won't work. To quote [Kei143](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/mmh6PidR-the-dreaded-downvoteers-in-this-discussion-board?comment=0001000100000000000100000004): >When Riot permabans someone, their philosophy is "the chances of this guy reforming isn't a whole lot, we'd rather not have him in the game". Thus in their eyes, they have already written off the toxic player as a paying client. >From a business standpoint, do they want to remove the toxic guy who has spent $500 but is causing a negative environment for 4-9 other players in every game? Those non-toxics are also spending $500 and probably will spend more, promote the game more when they are enjoying the game AND they won't cause a negative environment. >I personally think it is a fine argument to protect the ones that are paying money and aren't toxic rather than protecting the ones that may pay the same amount but are toxic.
> [{quoted}](name=Prandine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FxGpAhAH,comment-id=000a0003,timestamp=2019-02-01T20:55:41.029+0000) > > To quote [Baron Barian](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/kWXhQ1c1-banned-for-2-weeks-hahahaha-wtf?sort_type=recent&comment=0009): > > From [Ulanopo's Knowledge Base](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4086541&page=5#post43595629): > (My personal favorite on that site is this indefinite suspension (http://nbafines.tumblr.com/post/1010368028/3-12-96-the-nba-suspended-mahmoud-abdul-rauf-den), simply for refusing to stand during the National Anthem.) > "Excessive profanity or other unsportsmanlike conduct triggers a minimum fine of $10,500." > Brendan Shanahan is the ****ing Bad Santa of the NHL. Did you know that his Office of Player Safety watches every minute of every game, from multiple angles? He sees and hears EVERYTHING, including swearing. > Marge Schott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marge_Schott), who was forced out of ownership of the Cincinnati Reds for racist comments and pro-Nazi sentiments. > > https://lol.gamepedia.com/List_of_Competitive_Rulings > > P.S. As explained to you many times Riot doesn't want permabanned players to come back but they cannot stop them from doing so without causing collateral damage. You even acknowledge the fact that Riot doesn't force players to make new accounts or to spend money yet you keep making this argument anyways. Long story short you can try to use the money argument all you want but it won't work. To quote [Kei143](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/mmh6PidR-the-dreaded-downvoteers-in-this-discussion-board?comment=0001000100000000000100000004): Correct. There's a line, but in league the line is very blurry and riots ai equally punishes the SUPER toxic people and the people simply replying back to toxic assholes to defend their integrity, or people having silly competitive banter with the enemy laner. It's lazy discipline. There's a huge difference between being a little negative and being an hateful asshole, but riot doesn't see it that way. Punishment isn't in tiers, they just carpet bomb everyone because its easier. One time i was going back and forth with the enemy mid laner, calling each other trash and joking around, and i ended up not doing well in lane. Then my teammate reported me simply for doing bad, and i lost all my honor and got a chat ban. Fucking ridiculous.
: > [{quoted}](name=Apricot Jams,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FxGpAhAH,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-02-01T18:06:08.675+0000) > > 100%. Banter and trash talk is a part of literally EVERY competitive sport, but riot redefined what "toxic" means so they can just ban people for silly bs, taking away everything they've earned, knowing full well that they're addicted to the game and will come back to spend more money. Business is business my guy, and they're banking on the all SJW snowflakes in the world (and on this board) to back them up wit their tears. Banter and trash talk are part of some competitive sports, yes, but they do not stoop as low as personal attacks on other people, bigotry, and telling their opponents to commit suicide. When banter and trash talk DOES stoop to that point in other sports, the person in the offense is usually reprimanded or penalized.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FxGpAhAH,comment-id=000a0002,timestamp=2019-02-01T20:53:06.901+0000) > > Banter and trash talk are part of some competitive sports, yes, but they do not stoop as low as personal attacks on other people, bigotry, and telling their opponents to commit suicide. When banter and trash talk DOES stoop to that point in other sports, the person in the offense is usually reprimanded or penalized. 100%, that's where the line is crossed, but with league the line is blurry. The person telling others to kill themselves and the person replying back to people flaming him will both get permabanned, and that's where things get stupid. It's just lazy discipline.
: Personally I think they just haven't had the time. I know this is a shitty excuse but I really think it's what's going on. They're busy working on new skins and new events and champions and the new ranked season and worlds and every other person's complaint. I think theyll get to it. Just not right now
> [{quoted}](name=CherryBlossomTea,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bOqt4mtO,comment-id=000d000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-01T20:44:20.084+0000) > > Personally I think they just haven't had the time. I know this is a shitty excuse but I really think it's what's going on. They're busy working on new skins and new events and champions and the new ranked season and worlds and every other person's complaint. I think theyll get to it. Just not right now Exactly. They're a huge corporation focused things that make money, and why change a discipline system that's already lucrative when you could be making new skins and champs that will sell.
Mahrix10 (NA)
: It's a good thing that banter and trash talk isn't against the rules What will get you punished is constant harassment and generally being annoying. Occasional banter and trash talk never got anyone punished, spamming it every 30 seconds gets annoying and people who do that will be punished and dealt with accordingly.
> [{quoted}](name=Mahrix10,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FxGpAhAH,comment-id=000a0001,timestamp=2019-02-01T20:43:43.401+0000) > > It's a good thing that banter and trash talk isn't against the rules > > What will get you punished is constant harassment and generally being annoying. > > Occasional banter and trash talk never got anyone punished, spamming it every 30 seconds gets annoying and people who do that will be punished and dealt with accordingly. Their ai can't tell the difference and I've seen it make that mistake countless times. Even after a support ticket is written, the support person/robot just points at one or two words and goes "well you shouldn't have said that, that's negative" and cannot be convinced otherwise. I wish you were right, but you're not. Maybe sometimes it can tell the difference, but a lot of the time it can't.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: Nobody said the system is perfect. You keep acting as if people are not getting false punishments reverted, but it happens. It's just fairly rare that this actually happens; according to Riot's and the community's standards at least. But you're also completely moving the goal post. You keep doing this, you say things that make no sense or are simply incorrect, and the moment somebody calls you out on it you construct a strawman argument that has hardly anything to do with what you even said initially. Let me remind you of what I **actually** said. 1. "Negative experience" is a poor indicator of how good the support is, when part of the support's job is telling people something they don't want to hear. 2. Your decision to continue to spend money is yours alone. What you call "addiction" is ridiculous when compared to actual addictions. To iterate some more on my second point: If you **really** feel like you are not in control of your own spending I strongly recommend seeking help, because in that case getting banned from a video game should be the least of your concerns.
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=XYxJEWOU,comment-id=00040000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-01T20:34:52.435+0000) > > Nobody said the system is perfect. You keep acting as if people are not getting false punishments reverted, but it happens. It's just fairly rare that this actually happens; according to Riot's and the community's standards at least. > > But you're also completely moving the goal post. You keep doing this, you say things that make no sense or are simply incorrect, and the moment somebody calls you out on it you construct a strawman argument that has hardly anything to do with what you even said initially. > > Let me remind you of what I **actually** said. > 1. "Negative experience" is a poor indicator of how good the support is, when part of the support's job is telling people something they don't want to hear. > 2. Your decision to continue to spend money is yours alone. What you call "addiction" is ridiculous when compared to actual addictions. > > To iterate some more on my second point: If you **really** feel like you are not in control of your own spending I strongly recommend seeking help, because in that case getting banned from a video game should be the least of your concerns. You're still not understanding the heart of my argument, so I'm gonna try one last time. OBVIOUSLY people choose on their own whether they want to spend money or not, so please stop fucking bringing that up. My point is that because people CHOOSE to spend money after they've been banned and stripped of everything they've earned, it creates a bad incentive to not work on the discipline system because as it stands it's highly lucrative to take away everything people have earned based on loose standards of what toxicity is. It hasn't negatively impacted you, I'm happy for you, but there's lots of people who it has. So many people in this forum have drank the riot juice and just eat up all the marketing about how great the system is. One example: Criticism is how you grow and learn, it's actually the fastest way to grow and learn because it allows you to learn from the mistakes of others (as well as your own), but it's not allowed because not only are kids unable to distinguish criticism from flame, but neither is their the ai robot that punishes people. The rift has become an overly sensitive snowflake bonanza. REAL problem players are people who give up after one death and ruin the game for 4 other people. Real problem players are people having a great game and shitting on anyone who isn't. Those people deserve bans, not people who get harassed and defend themselves verbally. It's EASIER for riot to establish a rule that lumps them in with the real assholes, but it's not better, and it shocks me how many people really think it's the right thing to do.
: >SUPPORT 1: League is a free to play game and most people play it for free. If you ban their account that they've earned tons of champs/skins/etc on over months/years, they're likely to pay at least a little bit of money to not have to spend all that time playing again. The mods on this board argue that players are not forced to spend money here, but dropping $10 to rebuy your favorite champ isn't unreasonable in this situation. Yes, it's the players choice, but they wouldn't have had to make this choice if they didn't get banned, and riot looks the other way at this because it's in their financial favor. Multiply $10 by the number of players that get permabanned each year, and thats a lot of extra money. You don't have to spend money on the game. I've never bought any champions, and owned all of them by the time the BE change occurred. Additionally, you can buy whatever OTP champion you want after playing regularly for about, I'd say 3 weeks max, probably 2 weeks on average. That's forgetting that you get a lot of champion shards more quickly leading up to level 50. >SUPPORT 2: I've been playing the game since beta and the community has gotten worse, not better. So this discipline system they advertise as "cleaning up the community" simply isn't working and tons of people can attest to this. That's always hard to quantify. If that's your opinion, then I suggest always being part of the change you want to see. >SUPPORT 3: The smerf account market makes a shit ton of money and riot does nothing to stop it. Go do a google search and you'll see how many sites sell accounts and guarantee satisfaction. [Regarding guarantees](https://youtu.be/juNqfxhirBM?t=33). Buying accounts is at your own risk, as they are typically leveled with bots, and since they're shared accounts, would be banned if that were true. Paysites are an unfortunate reality in online video games, and I wish more were done about that. I've played Final Fantasy 11, and as old as that game is, there's *still* "illegal" money-for-gil sites. >SUPPORT 4: Unless you complain a lot, the support responses you get are clearly copy-paste generic bullshit that helps no one who has been wrongfully punished. Even when you do get a real person, they just repeat what the robot said in different words. Even if you got harassed, flamed, and verbally abused in game, they don't care. If you so much as replied sarcastically to the actual trolls, you get punished the same way they do. In court, you don't get punished equally with the attacker for defending yourself, but in this game you do, and riot mods on this board love pretending like its justice. Riot does do manual reviews. This occurs through support tickets, through the boards, and through periodic manual reviews. They take false positives very seriously. >SUPPORT 5: Permabanning an account doesn't successfully stop the player from still playing and still being toxic. They just create a new one, or buy a smerf, and they're still the same person they were before they got banned. Nothing can really stop someone from coming back to the game after being banned. In the *worst* case scenario, this player would continue to be toxic and continue to be removed from the game.
> [{quoted}](name=Periscope,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bOqt4mtO,comment-id=001a,timestamp=2019-02-01T20:11:59.277+0000) > > That's always hard to quantify. If that's your opinion, then I suggest always being part of the change you want to see. > 100% and for many months i did, but seeing that i was still constantly getting qeued up with negative trolls was extremely disheartening and after enough time i just stopped giving a shit. Being the change i wished to see caused no noticeable change in others, i would still regularly get people going "report this guy" when i would simply be having a bad game. Their system isn't working at all in my experience.
: I know alot of people disagree with you, but being one of the people who was permabanned but addicted came back n' kept playing. . . You're right. However they did unban my main account with the mass unban experiment and im still unbanned, but that's probably because I refuse to play this game. I used to love the old league. 4-5Months clean.
> [{quoted}](name=Bμbble Butt,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bOqt4mtO,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2019-02-01T20:07:28.500+0000) > > I know alot of people disagree with you, but being one of the people who was permabanned but addicted came back n' kept playing. . . You're right. However they did unban my main account with the mass unban experiment and im still unbanned, but that's probably because I refuse to play this game. I used to love the old league. 4-5Months clean. I appreciate your honest perspective on this man. I feel like this thread is full of people who haven't been banned saying "fuck you the system is perfect" and then a few people like you who have been wronged the same way i have. Congrats on being clean. I quit for like a year then came back.
: > [{quoted}](name=Apricot Jams,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FxGpAhAH,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-02-01T18:06:08.675+0000) > >knowing full well that they're addicted to the game and will come back to spend more money. As discussed in your thread, you have no reasonable proof to back such a claim.
> [{quoted}](name=AeroWaffle,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FxGpAhAH,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-02-01T19:56:15.147+0000) > > As discussed in your thread, you have no reasonable proof to back such a claim. You know what people do on discussion forums? Discuss their perspectives/opinions. Most people don't come in here with CONCRETE PROOF bro so either contribute to the discussion with your perspective/thinking or stop talking because you're adding nothing right now. I can go around telling a lot of people "you dont have proof you dont have proof" too but I know everyone is just giving their perspective.
: you think its an error but it was not as they did not reverse
> [{quoted}](name=hrooza dota ,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bOqt4mtO,comment-id=000b000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-01T19:53:51.978+0000) > > you think its an error but it was not as they did not reverse People who GET trolled don't deserve to be banned its as simple as that. You're just complacent their bad systems because you dont know any better.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: Yeah, I'm sure all the feedback by people who were correctly punished and got told exactly that will be **super** helpful and not at all heavily biased. If people write in to have their punishment lifted it's going to be inevitable that you have a whole bunch of "negative experiences" if your false positive rate is low. And please, for the love of god, don't put willingly in quotation marks. Nobody is putting a gun to your head. You are not physically addicted. Nobody is coercing you. If you decide all on your own to invest more money into a game that at this point is actively trying to keep you out of its community that is on you and only you. Take responsibility for your actions.
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=XYxJEWOU,comment-id=000400000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-01T18:40:39.272+0000) > > Yeah, I'm sure all the feedback by people who were correctly punished and got told exactly that will be **super** helpful and not at all heavily biased. > > If people write in to have their punishment lifted it's going to be inevitable that you have a whole bunch of "negative experiences" if your false positive rate is low. > > And please, for the love of god, don't put willingly in quotation marks. Nobody is putting a gun to your head. You are not physically addicted. Nobody is coercing you. If you decide all on your own to invest more money into a game that at this point is actively trying to keep you out of its community that is on you and only you. > Take responsibility for your actions. I'm sure the people working at riot selling in the idea of keeping the discipline system the way it is say the exact same thing to the executives. "the system is just fine, everyone is justly punished. It's just a happy coincidence that they're all addicted to this game and come back and rebuy all their shit, that's not our problem." Of course it's not their problem. Why would they have a problem with making all that money. It's extremely naive of you to act like the money isn't a bad incentive to keep the system exactly the way it is, as if it's perfect and doesn't make errors. News flash, no man made system is perfect, and without proper feedback mechanisms analyzed OBJECTIVELY without bias, it won't improve.
Ript (NA)
: Exploiting Positional Matchmaking -- A Story, by Ript
Well then I don't know what to tell you. If you think his disrespectful method of rhetoric is normal, then i feel sorry for you that you don't know what a respectful conversation looks like.
: that mean everyone you talked you punishment was not a mistake you see i saw ppl say they get banned but the ban left they will only reverse if it was an error in their system
> [{quoted}](name=hrooza dota ,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bOqt4mtO,comment-id=000b0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-01T18:06:28.171+0000) > > that mean everyone you talked you punishment was not a mistake > > you see i saw ppl say they get banned but the ban left they will only reverse if it was an error in their system Yes, if it was an error in their "system". The system is the problem I'm talking about
rujitra (NA)
: You continually threatened to report people, you used the entire chat to try to get others to report (which is completely useless), and you were flaming your teammates. That's very clearly harassment.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WjvVyEXe,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-02-01T13:55:04.281+0000) > > You continually threatened to report people, you used the entire chat to try to get others to report (which is completely useless), and you were flaming your teammates. > > That's very clearly harassment. It's pretty basic human nature for a person who is being actively abused and trolled to retaliate. Riot labels understandable human behavior as "toxic" so they have an excuse to ban you, because they know you're addicted and will make a new account and potentially buy your shit back. Business is business.
Remischal (EUW)
: Okay, something needs to happen right now to this system and I want my acc back.
I also got my account banned for responding back to an actually toxic player. Sorry bro but riot doesn't give two shits. My advice to you is to not spend a dime on your new account, because that's the biggest reason why they're discipline system robot ai is automated trash.
HÔPÊ (EUW)
: People are so soft and weak.
100%. Banter and trash talk is a part of literally EVERY competitive sport, but riot redefined what "toxic" means so they can just ban people for silly bs, taking away everything they've earned, knowing full well that they're addicted to the game and will come back to spend more money. Business is business my guy, and they're banking on the all SJW snowflakes in the world (and on this board) to back them up wit their tears.
: sorry but i cant trust you without logs of punishment which riot give also no i never said it always accurate and it has been mistaken before and ppl get their punish lefted when it is
> [{quoted}](name=hrooza dota ,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bOqt4mtO,comment-id=000b00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-01T17:27:53.790+0000) > > sorry but i cant trust you without logs of punishment which riot give > > also no i never said it always accurate and it has been mistaken before and ppl get their punish lefted when it is Everyone I talked to who tried to get their punishment reversed, was rejected, myself included. Are you speaking from personal experience or just stuff you've heard?
: The fact people come up with these tinfoil hat conspiracy theories in order to create an excuse for their punishment instead of just admitting to themselves they are being d*ckwads and working on their behavior is equal parts fascinating and disturbing.
> [{quoted}](name=Hazyshd,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bOqt4mtO,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2019-02-01T17:25:14.228+0000) > > The fact people come up with these tinfoil hat conspiracy theories in order to create an excuse for their punishment instead of just admitting to themselves they are being d*ckwads and working on their behavior is equal parts fascinating and disturbing. can't wait to see how fast you'll start singing a different tune if you ever get unjustly banned.
Truace (NA)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Truace,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bOqt4mtO,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2019-02-01T17:17:19.101+0000) > > if yiu have 1k honorable games built up and have to deal with one massive troll, you will be PUNISHED after one game and drop your honor level to 1 and lock rewards. > EXACTLY. Complete horseshit system. If a human with a brain looked at that track record, and not a robot, they'd see that it's a blip in the radar and forgive, but not their genius perfect flawless ai. It's in their financial interested to be inhumanly unforgiving.
: If anyone's yapping like they know the truth, it's you. You argue with every single person that comes to these boards that doesn't agree with you full heartedly instead of really considering what they're saying. You even insulted the adviser. Does that seem like something an adult would do, or an upset child? I apologise for I don't mean to insult you, I'm just upset and want you to realize that you repeat the same claims with little to no evidence while being a jerk to everyone who is willing to ask you for any proof. I told you not to think so highly of yourself because no riot employee would care enough to even read this complaint because it's so small and useless to them. I'm just asking that you rethink your standpoint and simply consider the fact that riot probably isn't some greedy business out there who somehow thinks banning people from their game permentanly will gain them profit in the end. Because realistically, they are trying to ban people permanently. Ever thought of ID bans? Riot gets no money from that, because the player can never create a new account, although, they do it anyway. Because they want to make a safe and happy playing envoirment for their players who aren't toxic and simply want to enjoy the game. Which also, I'd argue is a business tactic. If your agument Is that they're a business trying to get money, it is more likely for them to get money this way the the way you proposed. People are already pissed about how toxic this game is and some people don't play anymore/ will never start playing because of it. Don't you think that cleaning up their games from the toxic bunch Will Also earn them profit and publicity and well? It's something to consider. Once again I'm sorry if I was rude, I'm trying to take an adult standpoint on this instead of just being an asshole like my prior comment. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
> [{quoted}](name=CherryBlossomTea,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bOqt4mtO,comment-id=000d0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-01T15:37:48.156+0000) > > If anyone's yapping like they know the truth, it's you. You argue with every single person that comes to these boards that doesn't agree with you full heartedly instead of really considering what they're saying. You even insulted the adviser. Does that seem like something an adult would do, or an upset child? I apologise for I don't mean to insult you, I'm just upset and want you to realize that you repeat the same claims with little to no evidence while being a jerk to everyone who is willing to ask you for any proof. I told you not to think so highly of yourself because no riot employee would care enough to even read this complaint because it's so small and useless to them. I'm just asking that you rethink your standpoint and simply consider the fact that riot probably isn't some greedy business out there who somehow thinks banning people from their game permentanly will gain them profit in the end. Because realistically, they are trying to ban people permanently. Ever thought of ID bans? Riot gets no money from that, because the player can never create a new account, although, they do it anyway. Because they want to make a safe and happy playing envoirment for their players who aren't toxic and simply want to enjoy the game. Which also, I'd argue is a business tactic. If your agument Is that they're a business trying to get money, it is more likely for them to get money this way the the way you proposed. People are already pissed about how toxic this game is and some people don't play anymore/ will never start playing because of it. Don't you think that cleaning up their games from the toxic bunch Will Also earn them profit and publicity and well? It's something to consider. > > Once again I'm sorry if I was rude, I'm trying to take an adult standpoint on this instead of just being an asshole like my prior comment. > {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} Yes I wish that their goal was to create a better gaming environment for everyone, and for a long time I did, but after being a victim of the terrible, automated discipline system, and speaking with tons of others who were also unjustly banned, and seeing that the rift is STILL full of toxic ass hats and nothing is changing, this is the only thing that makes sense to me. I'm not saying I know the truth, I'm just saying that based on my experience with the game, and knowing that all huge corporations (once they get to a certain size) literally only care about money, this is the best explanation I have for why they don't fix the discipline system. Sure, there's plenty of people who haven't been wrongly banned, but there's also a ton of people that have, and they've all experienced the same apathetic attitude from support staff, and THATS where it smells like shit. An honesty company listens to feedback and improves their system accordingly. If they really cared about the users experience, they wouldn't be so cold about it, but that's because in reality, people like myself are addicted to this game, and they bank on us coming back. They spent years making their game incredible by hiring the best programmers, artists and designers in the world. Now, that everyone's addicted to their clearly superior product, they're cashing in by unforgivingly stripping away everything you earn so you can rebuy it. It doesn't make common sense, but it sure as hell makes business sense. The whole safe and happy environment thing is bullshit, there's nothing safe and happy about summoner's rift. It's a competitive atmosphere where everyone tries to kill each other. Competitive banter is a NORMAL part of every competitive sport, but they pretend like its "toxic" as an excuse to ban people. Quite frankly, they cater to snowflake mentality which is also a big problem with the modern world, but that's a whole other conversation. There are definitely better ways to improve everyone's gaming experience, and punish the real trolls properly, but they prefer this one, because it makes them lots of money.
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Apricot Jams

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