Cosnirak (NA)
: >In the LCS and the olympics, players don't give up, rage quit, and flame eachother without cause. While rare, they actually do some times. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. But most professionals know that such actions won't help them win, so they rise above and behave like they (and you) should. That's part of what separates them from the rest. >Caps is accepted, I have never reported someone over using caps... What even is this argument? You not reporting someone for an action does not make that action ok. To even imply that it does is silly at best. >Since the summoners code seems to be the bible of behavior here, please show me a rule that insinuates caps would be considered inappropriate. I can't seem to find one. Look harder, I'm not doing it for you. >But yelling is not acceptable. And neither is toxicity. So could I use this argument to say a little toxicity is acceptable? Absolutely! As Riot has made clear numerous times, we all have bad days, off games, and sometimes we're just human and mess up. That's why players don't get banned (or even punished at all usually) for one small offense. But if you demonstrate a pattern of such behavior, that isn't acceptable. That's what you did. >What about the large amount of messages I sent in those chat logs that were meant in good humor and/or banter with the enemy team? Not being toxic ALL of the time doesn't excuse a repeated pattern of toxic behavior.
> [{quoted}](name=Cosnirak,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=00570002000100010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-04T05:18:48.577+0000) > > While rare, they actually do some times. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. But most professionals know that such actions won't help them win, so they rise above and behave like they (and you) should. That's part of what separates them from the rest. And they would be punished and reformed. The person who verbally retaliated would not receive any kind of punishment. Maybe a warning, but regardless of how many times it happens, never anything more than that. If a teammate asked his teammates to report the quitter to the coach, the quitter would be punished, not the teammate who rallied his team to report the quitter. > You not reporting someone for an action does not make that action ok. To even imply that it does is silly at best. > Look harder, I'm not doing it for you. Some opinions are too ridiculous to argue. This is one of them. > Absolutely! As Riot has made clear numerous times, we all have bad days, off games, and sometimes we're just human and mess up. That's why players don't get banned (or even punished at all usually) for one small offense. But if you demonstrate a pattern of such behavior, that isn't acceptable. That's what you did. > > Not being toxic ALL of the time doesn't excuse a repeated pattern of toxic behavior. That is not the point. The point is the vast majority of what looks like toxicity isn't; it makes me look bad. I already do not believe that any of what I said warrants a punishment given the circumstances, but let's ignore that. Once everything is put into context, I don't see how anyone can argue that what was actually toxic is justifiable with a permanent ban. There simply isn't enough material on a consistent basis.
Cosnirak (NA)
: >Competitive League is about winning, nothing else. It is my obligation to my teammates to do everything I can to win the game with them, and that includes leading them when they are lost and shotcalling when no one else will. You're simply wrong here, sorry. Not even the LCS puts winning above all else. LCS players have been banned for toxicity as well. Even the Olympics has strong limitations on the attitudes and actions of competitors. >Caps, or yelling if that's what you choose to call it, is the absolute minimum and acceptable form of backlash to someone who is messing with you. It is neither the minimum nor accepted. >And if you're insinuating that yelling is in violation of the rules then you need you're too far gone to reason with because that is just ridiculous. I'm not insinuating anything, I'm directly saying it. Sure a little yelling now and then can be forgiven. Also, if it's done in generally accepted good humor, it's fine. But when you're angrily yelling at people it's not ok. Sure one or two incidents of just that aren't major and therefor shouldn't (and won't) get someone penalized. But it is one more way people can be toxic and can contribute towards receiving a punishment. Doing it excessively absolutely warrants punishment. You did that.
> [{quoted}](name=Cosnirak,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=005700020001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-04T04:50:40.187+0000) > > You're simply wrong here, sorry. Not even the LCS puts winning above all else. LCS players have been banned for toxicity as well. Even the Olympics has strong limitations on the attitudes and actions of competitors. In the LCS and the olympics, players don't give up, rage quit, and flame eachother without cause. I was not toxic in any of my games until I was trolled. > It is neither the minimum nor accepted. > I'm not insinuating anything, I'm directly saying it. Caps is accepted, I have never reported someone over using caps... What even is this argument? Since the summoners code seems to be the bible of behavior here, please show me a rule that insinuates caps would be considered inappropriate. I can't seem to find one. > Sure a little yelling now and then can be forgiven. Also, if it's done in generally accepted good humor, it's fine. But when you're angrily yelling at people it's not ok. Sure one or two incidents of just that aren't major and therefor shouldn't (and won't) get someone penalized. But it is one more way people can be toxic and can contribute towards receiving a punishment. Doing it excessively absolutely warrants punishment. You did that. But yelling is not acceptable. And neither is toxicity. So could I use this argument to say a little toxicity is acceptable? What about the large amount of messages I sent in those chat logs that were meant in good humor and/or banter with the enemy team? Surely those should be acceptable as they were not toxic and only appear toxic out of context.
: I've played with you before. You were extremely toxic and added me after the game and said you were a booster. Good riddance (This was on my D5 account) BTW anyone who disagrees with this ban is clueless. He only showed game 1 for a reason
> [{quoted}](name=BIH Diamond,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0079,timestamp=2016-08-04T05:00:50.483+0000) > > I've played with you before. You were extremely toxic and added me after the game and said you were a booster. Good riddance > > (This was on my D5 account) Comment on your main account and provide proof that we even played a game together, this kind of comment is unacceptable. > BTW anyone who disagrees with this ban is clueless. He only showed game 1 for a reason I showed all 3 games. I believe game 1 provides the most examples of toxicity given the context, and also draws similarities from many of the games in which I would have been reported. It shows I am not inherently toxic, and that there is a cause.
: If the game is truly a loss, why type at all? If you truly feel it's over, why keep saying it? (This doesn't change the outcome and risks you getting punished again.) If you are trying to ff, and the team doesn't ff, why keep saying "ff"? (I honestly can tell you I cannot stand this. I'm not an unreasonable person, but it truly bothers me when people saying things like "ff" and "it's over" and "gg" because I cannot even begin to tell you how many games I have won and come back from when teammates say that) If the team isn't listening to you, why would caps change somehow change that? (if they are purposely ignoring you or trolling you....caps will just make them ignore you more or feed troll). Once again, you seem intellegent. You are looking too deep in to this. Simply put, no one made you type those words. No one made you do anything. You and you alone took the risk of saying those things knowing you were on the brink of a perma ban. You have to accept responsibility for that.
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Droverson,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=007700000000,timestamp=2016-08-04T04:41:32.163+0000) > > If the game is truly a loss, why type at all? > > If you truly feel it's over, why keep saying it? (This doesn't change the outcome and risks you getting punished again.) Let's use games 1 and 3 as an example. The game was lost early on, every role lost, 1-2 people quit for extended periods, they gave up in chat pre-15 minutes, they tilted, and they fell too far behind across the map. Then they refuse to surrender for whatever reason, and force everyone to sit and endure the toxicity. They might get a burst of motivation after completely trashing the game and say "hey guys let's try to win!" Then they'll bait you into fights, ruin your stats, and tilt you even harder by forcing you to stay in a toxic, defeated game. And then they expect that you endure it and move onto the next one. If you fail to see the many root causes of the problems in these sorts of games, let me know so I can spell it out further. > If you are trying to ff, and the team doesn't ff, why keep saying "ff"? (I honestly can tell you I cannot stand this. I'm not an unreasonable person, but it truly bothers me when people saying things like "ff" and "it's over" and "gg" because I cannot even begin to tell you how many games I have won and come back from when teammates say that) Because in those situations, the game is lost. Teammates have already given up, tilted, flamed without reason, fed kill and missed cs out of tilt, and/or quit for extended periods. In most cases, I'm saying ff before calling for a vote so my team knows I'm ready to move on, and in many of these cases my teammates have already given up and I'm letting them know I'm on board to ff. In situations like game 3 of my chat logs, the entire team gave up after being crushed in all 5 roles and having our top laner quit the game. I said ff a few times because I was ready to surrender, but it wasn't 20 minutes yet. > If the team isn't listening to you, why would caps change somehow change that? (if they are purposely ignoring you or trolling you....caps will just make them ignore you more or feed troll). Game 2 is the example here. The team is playing like a bunch of monkeys, constantly trying to 1v2, not playing together, throwing leads left and right. They aren't gonna take the time to read long motivational speeches. Caps makes your messages stand out and adds some emphasis to the call. > Once again, you seem intellegent. You are looking too deep in to this. Simply put, no one made you type those words. No one made you do anything. You and you alone took the risk of saying those things knowing you were on the brink of a perma ban. > > You have to accept responsibility for that. Unacceptable. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.
: You said you are willing to change if it hinders your ability to win. Would you be willing to change because you would lose your account and be unable to play (or win) at all? I mean, you can't win now because you don't have that account anymore. Isn't that enough incentive to change? Anyways, your approach here sounds completely selfish. -The game is boring to you, so you are willing to make the gaming experience worse for others by flooding chat with nonsense. -You aren't willing to change unless you see a personal reason to do so. if you want to see things from your eyes only, go ahead. Just don't be shocked if the results are the same. You seem intelligent too. You should value other people's opinions and thoughts. Even if they go against yours. Heck, even if you think they are wrong. It just seems like you came here to vent and justify your opinion. Not try to change yourself and improve.
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Droverson,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=00710000000100000000,timestamp=2016-08-04T04:30:46.359+0000) > > You said you are willing to change if it hinders your ability to win. Would you be willing to change because you would lose your account and be unable to play (or win) at all? I mean, you can't win now because you don't have that account anymore. Isn't that enough incentive to change? > > Anyways, your approach here sounds completely selfish. > > -The game is boring to you, so you are willing to make the gaming experience worse for others by flooding chat with nonsense. The game is boring to me when my teammates have given up, afkd at times, yet fail to surrender for unknown reasons. It's also boring when you're trying your hardest to win but you're not given the tools to do so (afk players, random flamers who give up and flame). > if you want to see things from your eyes only, go ahead. Just don't be shocked if the results are the same. You seem intelligent too. You should value other people's opinions and thoughts. Even if they go against yours. Heck, even if you think they are wrong. I value opinions, and I take the time to explain why some opinions are not reasonable. A large portion of people commenting here don't make sense. I fail to see how it's okay to accept unreasonable punishments that don't target the root of the problem and cause more problems. Saying "it's against the rules and you were warned, deal with it" is not acceptable. You could argue I deserve the ban because I saw it coming, but you cannot successfully argue that it is right. > It just seems like you came here to vent and justify your opinion. Not try to change yourself and improve. I will argue what is right and I will not let them think their system is working and that they've won. If given my original account back, of course I will change the way I talk to prevent a ban. But I also expect the system to change in time, because you cannot hand out permanent suspensions over retaliatory flame. You cannot shove someone and expect them to take it, it isn't sustainable.
Cosnirak (NA)
: >There is nothing toxic in the snippet you provided aside from threatening to leave, which I would never go through with, and when players are already doing stupid things and refusing to communicate, I have to use a last resort. You NEVER have to use it, first resort or last. It is always toxic, NOTHING excuses it. It's that simple. >There is no other way to get people to listen in a fast paced game, you exhaust all your options and hope they stick. It isn't your job to get them to listen. Sometimes they just aren't going to. Your job is to accept that. That's the part you don't understand, winning is less important than being a good person, even in ranked games of League. >As for the yelling is toxic, I did not yell. On the internet using all caps is considered yelling by the majority (at least in NA). Agree with it or not, that's how it is as it relates to the rules of behavior in League.
> [{quoted}](name=Cosnirak,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0057000200010001000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-04T04:24:49.804+0000) > > You NEVER have to use it, first resort or last. It is always toxic, NOTHING excuses it. It's that simple. > > It isn't your job to get them to listen. Sometimes they just aren't going to. Your job is to accept that. That's the part you don't understand, winning is less important than being a good person, even in ranked games of League. Competitive League is about winning, nothing else. It is my obligation to my teammates to do everything I can to win the game with them, and that includes leading them when they are lost and shotcalling when no one else will. My job is to do everything I am capable of to win, and anything less belongs in a casual game mode. End of story. > On the internet using call caps is considered yelling by the majority (at least in NA). Agree with it or not, that's how it is as it relates to the rules of behavior in League. If a player is going to be immature and mess with people, same as in the real world, they need to expect backlash and anger. Backlash is generally not okay, but it is expected and understood to be a direct product of being messed with. Caps, or yelling if that's what you choose to call it, is the absolute minimum and acceptable form of backlash to someone who is messing with you. And if you're insinuating that yelling is in violation of the rules then you need you're too far gone to reason with because that is just ridiculous.
: If you know your next ban is a permaban and you can't be quiet during a span of 15 games.....that's a you problem and not Riot's problem. You seem to have a large amount of rage quitters and trolls. You do realize the only common denominator in all of you games is you? Meaning, it's possible your behaviors may contribute to the trolls you encounter. Regardles, you had been warned multiple times. Unfortunately, you talk too much in game. Half that crap you said was completely irrelevent and unnecessary
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Droverson,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=007100000001,timestamp=2016-08-04T04:03:23.466+0000) > > If you know your next ban is a permaban and you can't be quiet during a span of 15 games.....that's a you problem and not Riot's problem. I'm not trying to game the system. The system is broken and should be fixed. I'm not going to change the way I talk because of an impending ban, I will change the way I talk because it is wrong or is hindering my ability to win. > You seem to have a large amount of rage quitters and trolls. You do realize the only common denominator in all of you games is you? Meaning, it's possible your behaviors may contribute to the trolls you encounter. I am a common denominator. Correlation does not equal causation. Low diamond is filled with massive egos and quitters. This is no secret. > Regardles, you had been warned multiple times. Unfortunately, you talk too much in game. Half that crap you said was completely irrelevent and unnecessary It was, but so was the rage quitting and negativity and flaming of my teammates which caused me to get to that state. And commenting on individual plays may be unnecessary but in boring games it fills the time.
: Here are my thoughts on your case. 1. You talk too much. Most of the time, the stuff you say is not needed. 2. Stop with the caps 3. You say "ff" and claiming the match is a loss far far too often. 4. You were condescending to people Basically, you would not be fun to play with. You have had multiple chances to change (all the bans you recieved). I would assume with you chat bans, you would understand that you don't need to type to communicate with teamates (the majority of the time). Honestly, you just need to stop talking. It could have helped you.
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Droverson,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0077,timestamp=2016-08-04T03:52:40.027+0000) > > Here are my thoughts on your case. > > 1. You talk too much. Most of the time, the stuff you say is not needed. > 2. Stop with the caps > 3. You say "ff" and claiming the match is a loss far far too often. > 4. You were condescending to people > > Basically, you would not be fun to play with. You have had multiple chances to change (all the bans you recieved). I would assume with you chat bans, you would understand that you don't need to type to communicate with teamates (the majority of the time). > > Honestly, you just need to stop talking. It could have helped you. 1) Admitted, something I will work on. 2) Caps are fine when a point needs to be heard. I have no other way to make calls in an unorganized game with an unfocused team. 3) Nothing wrong with calling for an ff, that is why people get to vote. There is also nothing wrong with calling for an ff multiple times in a game where multiple people have given up and 1-2 have afkd and the game is so far behind it would take a miracle to even have a chance. 4) I don't see how that is classified under passive aggressive chat / griefing and/or verbal abuse, which is what I was reported for. > [{quoted}](name=Lord Droverson,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=00720000,timestamp=2016-08-04T03:58:26.700+0000) > > Do you really think a "grown up" calls people stupid? (Especially considering this is an online video game where you do not know the people you interact with) > > A true "grown up" would not do that. A true grown up would question the context instead of assuming that was directed at someone. That was actually in response to watching an Elise one shot multiple people in rapid succession. We were all saying "wtf" in chat because she was stomping us.
: > [{quoted}](name=Apulmadikout,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0075000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-04T02:13:34.108+0000) > > I did break the rules. And I did fragment my messages far too much, which is an issue I will work on but is not a reportable offense. I am surprised I got a permanent ban based on out of context messages. Please view my comments where I break down supposed toxic messages and give the real reason behind them, when put into context, majority of the time they aren't toxic. But you may not know that when all you're given is my messages. > > The point is, the rules and punishments are outdated and unreasonable. The system has tried and failed, it is broken and needs to be fixed. The current punishments cause more problems than they supposedly solve. Would you want to face me in your Platinum 2 MMR ranked game? No, I would stomp you, it would be unfair and frustrating. Unfortunately because of this permanent ban, many people like you will have to face a smurf and suffer a crushing loss. It wastes both of our time, causes unneeded frustration, and will likely cause someone on your team to flame because of how unfair it is. But hey, rules are rules right? Glad we got that mildly negative player off his main account, wouldn't want him reacting to multiple trolls. > > You want to see the games where I had an afk and rager? Please feel free to check my match history and look for the games based on the champions I stated in my original post, I don't want to get flagged for name and shame here. You made this post so you can what?? change the system??or unbann you?? From your msg, i think that you want to get unbanned. But, you did break the rules, as you said right?? why whould they help you? We all play the game, and only a few select players,like yourself, gets banned. If we follow the rules, why don't you follow the rules? About the system- i have my own opinion about this system. I agree that it's not ok. But, you get alot of "warnings"before your ban.. So, it's not that bad. And i was reffering to yourself. You never had a bad game?? why are you judging others, if you did? Also, mentioning my mmr, when i am diamond 5. Brother, i am playing for fun not elo. PS> I would beat the shit out of you in my "noob" elo..
> [{quoted}](name=GamblerOfLives,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=00750000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-04T02:32:02.672+0000) > > You made this post so you can what?? change the system??or unbann you?? From your msg, i think that you want to get unbanned. But, you did break the rules, as you said right?? why whould they help you? We all play the game, and only a few select players,like yourself, gets banned. If we follow the rules, why don't you follow the rules? I made this post to highlight how ridiculous some of these permanent bans are, and that should result in my account being unbanned and the system being changed. It should also result in me changing the way I talk in game, which I hesitate to say because that is not the issue here. The issue is the broken system. The system bundles reactionary flame with antagonistic chat and actions. You cannot argue that these two things are even remotely on the same level. One reacts to a toxic environment, one festers and causes a toxic environment. Get rid of the cause, and there would be no reaction. > About the system- i have my own opinion about this system. I agree that it's not ok. But, you get alot of "warnings"before your ban.. So, it's not that bad. > > And i was reffering to yourself. You never had a bad game?? why are you judging others, if you did? When I have a bad game I tend to get flamed. But I am always focused and trying to win, hence why I win so many games. I do not flame people who have a bad game. I flame people who rage quit, give up early, blame their teammates, and dick around. > Also, mentioning my mmr, when i am diamond 5. Brother, i am playing for fun not elo. I asked you a simple question. Would you want to face me in your low ranked game? You wouldn't have fun, you would get crushed 90% of the time. Hundreds of low rank players will now have to deal with being stomped by a smurf, again. I don't think that is fair to them.
Cosnirak (NA)
: >There is no other option. Nothing toxic here. Yelling at people IS toxic. There is ALWAYS another option. >This can be considered toxic. I threatened to leave. But again, my allies died in 1vX scenarios and I needed some way to get through to them. The game was nearly at its breaking point and I wasn't on a carry so without my teammates, I lose. You can't justify threatening to leave with needing a way to get through to them. Losing happens all the time and is obviously an acceptable outcome in a game of League. Being toxic isn't. >I might have been annoying, but that is hardly reason to boot me from the game. You were more than annoying and you did it MANY times despite repeated warnings through the punishment escalation system. That IS reason to boot you from the game.
> [{quoted}](name=Cosnirak,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=00570002000100010000,timestamp=2016-08-04T02:27:31.479+0000) > > Yelling at people IS toxic. There is ALWAYS another option. > > You can't justify threatening to leave with needing a way to get through to them. Losing happens all the time and is obviously an acceptable outcome in a game of League. Being toxic isn't. > > You were more than annoying and you did it MANY times despite repeated warnings through the punishment escalation system. That IS reason to boot you from the game. I don't understand why you're trying to use this portion of the chat log to justify my ban, it simply isn't going to work. There is nothing toxic in the snippet you provided aside from threatening to leave, which I would never go through with, and when players are already doing stupid things and refusing to communicate, I have to use a last resort. There is no other way to get people to listen in a fast paced game, you exhaust all your options and hope they stick. As for the yelling is toxic, I did not yell. Yelling is emphasis of speech, caps is emphasis of typing. I'm emphasizing what I'm saying so it doesn't get lost in the rest of the idiocy being spewed into chat. I need my team to teamfight, I need them to focus on our one and only win condition ASAP before our window is up and we lose. If there was voice chat, this would be so much easier, but there isn't. Typing is my only option. You will find few truly toxic messages in my chat logs, far too little to justify a permanent suspension. And if I refine my use of chat to not include these messages, my shotcalling will be in a perfect spot.
PaladinNO (EUNE)
: >People in this thread claim that it's rare to have a rage quitter or a troll, but from my experience it's a consistent problem that needs to be addressed. I have seen this issue raised in every parts of the ranked ladder, but I'm guessing an afk would feel more frequent in the higher rankings, as, obviously, there are fewer players playing on that level. As a dynamic queue Gold V, and one not caring much for ranked, I don't often see this problem. I did try to objectively argue above what _I_ would've done, and reading your post a bit more carefully, I see that's exactly what you tried, but with the -1 for giving both some objective and subjective feedback, I don't really see how my input is valued in any way.
> [{quoted}](name=PaladinNO,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=007100000000,timestamp=2016-08-04T02:08:07.716+0000) > > I have seen this issue raised in every parts of the ranked ladder, but I'm guessing an afk would feel more frequent in the higher rankings, as, obviously, there are fewer players playing on that level. As a dynamic queue Gold V, and one not caring much for ranked, I don't often see this problem. > > I did try to objectively argue above what _I_ would've done, and reading your post a bit more carefully, I see that's exactly what you tried, but with the -1 for giving both some objective and subjective feedback, I don't really see how my input is valued in any way. Most people in division 5 of any tier are happy with where they are and are not actively trying to climb. Once your MMR raises a bit, the egos come out and people give up a lot more easily. This is especially true as you climb the ladder and it gets more competitive. I realize what I should do to avoid a ban, and I will definitely be putting those things into practice once I rank up, but it would be wonderful if that wasn't the focus. The focus is on whether this behavior warrants a permanent account suspension, and whether it is okay that trolls are able to instigate this kind of behavior and then walk free. It's really difficult to be a floor mat for immature, spiteful players and know that their antagonistic actions will go unpunished.
: > [{quoted}](name=Apulmadikout,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=00750000,timestamp=2016-08-04T01:55:43.906+0000) > > I did not bait my team, my team baited me. It's apparent by my chat logs, I make calls, time summoners, and encourage my team. Look at game 1, that is true up until Sivir goes afk. I let her toxicity slide, I don't care about her words. But when she rage quits and ruins my game, I ask the entire game to report her. She needs to be punished for wasting mine and my teammates time, losing me rank, ruining my stats, and trolling the game. The problem is, if she goes afk for 2 minutes, or gives up bot lane and stands under tower for 2 minutes, she won't be punished without a significant number of reports. > > So now I have some afk rager spamming chat while I'm trying to win, and I'm just supposed to mute her and let it all slide? No, I tried being nice to her and it did not work. So I tell everyone to report her. This either makes her continue to troll and afk, or threatens her account enough that she stops and continues to play. Unfortunately, her duo decided to flame me and top lane was losing so hard that he quit, so the game was already over. All I could hope for was a surrender, which my team decided not to do. So they afk, ruin the game, flame me without reason, and then attempt to hold me hostage to play from a major deficit which they caused by their lack of focus? It's ridiculous. You can't expect me to spend 8 excruciating minutes with players who have ruined my game and are flaming me. I'm too behind to make plays, so instead I just get crushed and tilted and there is nothing I can do about it. > > But I called for reports and asked to ff, clearly I had no reason for this and just instigated arguments and flamed without reason. I hate when people don't think clearly before voicing their opinions. Think about the bigger picture rather than tunneling on some out of context messages. "Think about the bigger picture rather than tunneling on some out of context messages." How's that big picture looking?? You know the rules- and you kept spamming like an idiot.i don't care what you said, it does not matter. All it matters is that, you did not shut up. And after getting punishments before for the exact same thing, are you really surprised you got perma banned?? Also, SHOW ME THE FCKING PLAYER THAT DIDN'T FEED ONCE, HAD A BAD GAME, OR W/E.. SHOW ME THAT PLAYER:)
> [{quoted}](name=GamblerOfLives,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=007500000000,timestamp=2016-08-04T02:02:38.255+0000) > > "Think about the bigger picture rather than tunneling on some out of context messages." > > How's that big picture looking?? > > > You know the rules- and you kept spamming like an idiot.i don't care what you said, it does not matter. All it matters is that, you did not shut up. And after getting punishments before for the exact same thing, are you really surprised you got perma banned?? > > Also, SHOW ME THE FCKING PLAYER THAT DIDN'T FEED ONCE, HAD A BAD GAME, OR W/E.. SHOW ME THAT PLAYER:) I did break the rules. And I did fragment my messages far too much, which is an issue I will work on but is not a reportable offense. I am surprised I got a permanent ban based on out of context messages. Please view my comments where I break down supposed toxic messages and give the real reason behind them, when put into context, majority of the time they aren't toxic. But you may not know that when all you're given is my messages. The point is, the rules and punishments are outdated and unreasonable. The system has tried and failed, it is broken and needs to be fixed. The current punishments cause more problems than they supposedly solve. Would you want to face me in your Platinum 2 MMR ranked game? No, I would stomp you, it would be unfair and frustrating. Unfortunately because of this permanent ban, many people like you will have to face a smurf and suffer a crushing loss. It wastes both of our time, causes unneeded frustration, and will likely cause someone on your team to flame because of how unfair it is. But hey, rules are rules right? Glad we got that mildly negative player off his main account, wouldn't want him reacting to multiple trolls. You want to see the games where I had an afk and rager? Please feel free to check my match history and look for the games based on the champions I stated in my original post, I don't want to get flagged for name and shame here.
: Dude, i hate players like you. Baiting the whole team to talk and not play. If you are in shit elo, you encounter shit players. This system might not be fair from alot of point of views (integrity of reports being the main reason). But, brother, as long as you know the rules, and assuming you are not an idiot, you can learn from past mistakes (the 4 step system). You talk alot, way too much. I talk shit sometimes too, but i don;t get banned. You know why?? Because i don't fcking spam and bait the team into stupid arguments.I just want to play the game. It's simple. If you talk alot, you get banned. SIMPLE
> [{quoted}](name=GamblerOfLives,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0075,timestamp=2016-08-04T01:45:52.335+0000) > > Dude, i hate players like you. Baiting the whole team to talk and not play. If you are in shit elo, you encounter shit players. This system might not be fair from alot of point of views (integrity of reports being the main reason). But, brother, as long as you know the rules, and assuming you are not an idiot, you can learn from past mistakes (the 4 step system). > > You talk alot, way too much. I talk shit sometimes too, but i don;t get banned. You know why?? Because i don't fcking spam and bait the team into stupid arguments.I just want to play the game. > > It's simple. If you talk alot, you get banned. SIMPLE I did not bait my team, my team baited me. It's apparent by my chat logs, I make calls, time summoners, and encourage my team. Look at game 1, that is true up until Sivir goes afk. I let her toxicity slide, I don't care about her words. But when she rage quits and ruins my game, I ask the entire game to report her. She needs to be punished for wasting mine and my teammates time, losing me rank, ruining my stats, and trolling the game. The problem is, if she goes afk for 2 minutes, or gives up bot lane and stands under tower for 2 minutes, she won't be punished without a significant number of reports. So now I have some afk rager spamming chat while I'm trying to win, and I'm just supposed to mute her and let it all slide? No, I tried being nice to her and it did not work. So I tell everyone to report her. This either makes her continue to troll and afk, or threatens her account enough that she stops and continues to play. Unfortunately, her duo decided to flame me and top lane was losing so hard that he quit, so the game was already over. All I could hope for was a surrender, which my team decided not to do. So they afk, ruin the game, flame me without reason, and then attempt to hold me hostage to play from a major deficit which they caused by their lack of focus? It's ridiculous. You can't expect me to spend 8 excruciating minutes with players who have ruined my game and are flaming me. I'm too behind to make plays, so instead I just get crushed and tilted and there is nothing I can do about it. But I called for reports and asked to ff, clearly I had no reason for this and just instigated arguments and flamed without reason. I hate when people don't think clearly before voicing their opinions. Think about the bigger picture rather than tunneling on some out of context messages.
: So You Get Permanently BANNED for Saying 'Noob' and/or 'Toxic'?
> [{quoted}](name=InvalidGaming,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=am5qo7MG,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-07-14T19:12:06.412+0000) > Add Achoneywell if you're smurfing now, we can rank fast.
: The only issue here is i've seen permanent bans from similar logs. So if they reverse this one, I can present similar logs on a permanently banned account. It's a slippery road
> [{quoted}](name=1337Peanut,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0064,timestamp=2016-08-03T20:37:34.014+0000) > > The only issue here is i've seen permanent bans from similar logs. So if they reverse this one, I can present similar logs on a permanently banned account. > > It's a slippery road As it should be, no? They have plenty of time to grant RP for MS Paint doodles, do they not have a few minutes to correct 100 unjustified permanent bans? Surely it's more beneficial to the state of the game to overturn extremely harsh permanent bans so players aren't forced to smurf and ruin the matchmaking for hundreds of players in several games?
: Did you really rage the other times you were punished? My assumption is you didn't, since people's attitudes don't change so easily for the positive. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and you were actually a suicide-advocating, racism-spewing child up until these chat logs. Assuming I'm right, you were punished, three times in quick succession, for your behavior. The last time, Riot handed out a warning: if you do it again, you're done. Yes? So, under the assumption that your attitude and personality have not significantly changed over a short period of time--you've been punished THREE TIMES for similar behavior in the recent past, yes? With a warning that your next would be the last? If so....I mean, you saw it coming right? You would have known going into the matches these logs came from that you couldn't do any of that, since Riot said "stop doing that" to you three times, right?
> [{quoted}](name=SuperLuigiLXIV,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=00040000000000010000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-08-03T20:28:26.161+0000) > > Did you really rage the other times you were punished? My assumption is you didn't, since people's attitudes don't change so easily for the positive. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and you were actually a suicide-advocating, racism-spewing child up until these chat logs. > > Assuming I'm right, you were punished, three times in quick succession, for your behavior. The last time, Riot handed out a warning: if you do it again, you're done. Yes? > > So, under the assumption that your attitude and personality have not significantly changed over a short period of time--you've been punished THREE TIMES for similar behavior in the recent past, yes? With a warning that your next would be the last? > > If so....I mean, you saw it coming right? You would have known going into the matches these logs came from that you couldn't do any of that, since Riot said "stop doing that" to you three times, right? I was toxic without reason in gold, which is where I got my punishments. Mostly because I was bored in those games but needed items to really do anything, so it was a boring farmfest. I did not think that reacting the way I did to trolls would get me banned. I thought I would consistently need to say far worse to trigger any kind of punishment, but I was wrong. Apparently trolls get a free pass as long as they don't say or do anything that the system would catch, while the players they troll have to bite the bullet and "report and move on". The thing is, I know trolls are not caught by the system. It's too hard to catch with the information that the current punishment system reviews. So my only way to get back and them is to report them, which I know will not work. Now I'm stuck in a game with immature quitters and I have no recourse. I can do NOTHING about it. I can't even ask the enemy to report them so that they have more reports against their name, hopefully leading to a ban. It's ridiculous, the cause of the toxicity isn't addressed, it's swept under the rug and continues to poison games.
: He just said he was punished for multiple games. This wasn't his first offence. He may have said something worse in other games.
> [{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=005700020000,timestamp=2016-08-03T20:12:44.723+0000) > > He just said he was punished for multiple games. This wasn't his first offence. He may have said something worse in other games. Three games were provided, I chose game 1 because it accurately shows the scenarios in which I would be toxic, and it also shows how I normally act in my games assuming there is no trolling going on. Chat logs tend to show the worst snippets of what a person says. I challenge you to find the worst of what I said and then use that to justify a permanent ban.
: Not going to waste my time reading what very well could be **_and probably is_** a heavily a doctored 'chat log' But you missed several key things that are considered very toxic behavior, and if thats what you left in I can only imagine what you cut out. So yeah. Pretty sure if Riot decided to permaban you, this wasnt your first offence either or you said some really nasty things in a very short time.
> [{quoted}](name=BogusDecoy,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=005f,timestamp=2016-08-03T19:54:09.626+0000) > > Not going to waste my time reading what very well could be **_and probably is_** a heavily a doctored 'chat log' > > But you missed several key things that are considered very toxic behavior, and if thats what you left in I can only imagine what you cut out. > > So yeah. Pretty sure if Riot decided to permaban you, this wasnt your first offence either or you said some really nasty things in a very short time. I have no reason to doctor chat logs. I believe the system is broken and I intend to point that out; tampering with the evidence ruins the point. I would like you to read games 1 and 3 and decide whether I said really nasty things in a short time. I had 3 rage quitters and multiple people flaming me long before I said anything to them. Those two games were only three games apart. I don't see how I'm even part of the real problem here.
: Can you read? He said he didn't provide all the games. I read the bin post games and they were definitely horrible and justified ban > Me: lol Me: OMW Me: fck Me: this talon Me: so gud Me: care bot Me: only lane elise has not gone Me: KNEW IT ROFDL Me: this elise so obvious Me: idgaf Me: stupiod fucking Me: fuck Me: so stupid Me: wow Me: just stupid Me: \our map control is gone Me: we lose Me: all our control Me: because of those plays. Me: no more dueling Me: i told you Me: WE LOSE DUELS Me: TF ONLY Me: TF Me: ONLY Me: EVERYONE Me: NOW Me: TF Me: TF Me: NO DUELS Me: FUCK Me: SO MANY THROWS Me: ONE MORE DUEL I LEAVE** I'd never want to play with this player
> [{quoted}](name=1337Peanut,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=005700020001,timestamp=2016-08-03T20:43:03.626+0000) > > Can you read? He said he didn't provide all the games. > > I read the bin post games and they were definitely horrible and justified ban > Me: OMW > Me: fck > Me: this talon > Me: so gud Talon was stuck in a 1v2, he came out on top, and I was shocked and happy. This is not toxic, however all the messages can be considered annoying. > Me: care bot > Me: only lane elise has not gone > Me: KNEW IT ROFDL > Me: this elise so obvious > Me: idgaf > Me: stupiod fucking > Me: fuck > Me: so stupid > Me: wow > Me: just stupid Elise got 3 kills in the span of a minute and I commented after each one, basically saying her burst was stupid. Toxic? No, everyone was shocked by her burst. I believe a teammate said something like "they're strong" or whatever, and I said "idgaf". I planned to play and carry. Again, annoying to have a lot of messages, but should not even be a factor in a punishment. > Me: \our map control is gone > Me: we lose > Me: all our control > Me: because of those plays. We lost turrets and had no control of the map. I point this out to my team, to get them focused on the issue. Get wards down and establish map control. Could I say it better? Of course. But I was thinking about the game and not how I explained things. This is an issue on my part. > Me: no more dueling > Me: i told you > Me: WE LOSE DUELS > Me: TF ONLY > Me: TF > Me: ONLY > Me: EVERYONE > Me: NOW > Me: TF > Me: TF > Me: NO DUELS We had a lead and my solo lanes kept throwing trying to 1v2 and make plays alone. After it happened several times in a row, both of them died and I needed to make it clear in chat. We teamfight or we lose. There is no other option. Nothing toxic here. > Me: FUCK > Me: SO MANY THROWS > Me: ONE MORE DUEL I LEAVE** This can be considered toxic. I threatened to leave. But again, my allies died in 1vX scenarios and I needed some way to get through to them. The game was nearly at its breaking point and I wasn't on a carry so without my teammates, I lose. > > > > I'd never want to play with this player That is unfortunate. You failed to provide a single reasonable bannable offense in over 30 lines of chat. I might have been annoying, but that is hardly reason to boot me from the game.
arc95 (NA)
: the red post says it all your toxic af in other games and these somewhat toxic games were the tipping point on your ban... you were punished multiple times and never changed... the ban was deserved... when you give 25% of the information and people just blindly accept what people say as truth it's easy to manipulate results... so > Over the past 9 hours, 77.65% of 340 people have voted that this punishment was not justified by my actions. means nothing becasue you intentionally left out your previous punishments
> [{quoted}](name=arc95,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=005b,timestamp=2016-08-03T19:06:34.332+0000) > > the red post says it all your toxic af in other games and these somewhat toxic games were the tipping point on your ban... you were punished multiple times and never changed... the ban was deserved... when you give 25% of the information and people just blindly accept what people say as truth it's easy to manipulate results... so > > means nothing becasue you intentionally left out your previous punishments No, I did not receive any emails when I got punished, and I did not save the in game chat logs from previous punishments. I gave people all the information and let them decide. I gave them a clearly ban worthy game in my original post, showing the reasons for my toxicity in any other game I am accurately reported in. I asked people multiple times to view the link at the top of my post and view the other two games, which given the state of the game, were honestly less toxic than game 1.
: im glad your gamse sense is great, and your macro play is high rated...stop treating people that are trying to learn the game at a gold level poorly for not being diamond level. YOU DONT BELONG THERE, YOU ALREADY LEARNED THE GOLD LESSON you have no business whatsoever playing at gold elo. I dont care what your reasoning was to create the smurf to begin with, it doesnt justify you being there and flaunting your D1 badge yelling at people. May as well have lebron put on his old highschool jersey enroll in Cleveland public and start calling everyone losers for not being on his level... GTFO {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
> [{quoted}](name=S H A Y C 0,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=003100000000,timestamp=2016-08-03T18:45:35.427+0000) > > im glad your gamse sense is great, and your macro play is high rated...stop treating people that are trying to learn the game at a gold level poorly for not being diamond level. > > YOU DONT BELONG THERE, YOU ALREADY LEARNED THE GOLD LESSON > > you have no business whatsoever playing at gold elo. I dont care what your reasoning was to create the smurf to begin with, it doesnt justify you being there and flaunting your D1 badge yelling at people. May as well have lebron put on his old highschool jersey enroll in Cleveland public and start calling everyone losers for not being on his level... GTFO > {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} The games above were in diamond 3 MMR on a diamond 5 account. I would 1v5 a gold game and I would expect nothing from the players. It's very clear when a mid-diamond player with a decent win rate is trolling a game.
: It is complete bullshit though, Riots system that is. Getting to rank 30 now is just as ambitious as reaching Diamond. If you don't win, expect to get reported every game just because you lost a lane or just lost the game.
> [{quoted}](name=GodblessAtheism,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=006f,timestamp=2016-08-04T00:30:41.115+0000) > > It is complete bullshit though, Riots system that is. Getting to rank 30 now is just as ambitious as reaching Diamond. If you don't win, expect to get reported every game just because you lost a lane or just lost the game. This is true, you do get reported in many games for being the cause of a loss, whether it be making a bad call or doing poorly in lane. Combine that with legitimate reports in games you were toxic, and your ban is a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. Reports are easy, and make a person feel good for getting revenge at someone they dislike, regardless of fairness or justification.
PaladinNO (EUNE)
: While I did initially vote "No" here (mostly because you didn't use the "money spent"-argument, like most people do), I do kinda regret that decision after having read the other 2 games on the Pastebin. While those other 2 were in no way acceptable, the most important factor here is the time passed between all these 3 games (which you didn't state for the record). Once, or even two-time offenses, can happen to anyone, but it is within what timeframe that is important. And judging by ALL 3 chat logs, you should've known better at some point than to keep arguing. When you feel you just can't take it anymore, and you just want out - despite you insisting, from your perspective, your team can win the game (which may very well be true) - you apply that mute all, and you throw the surrender vote. If the majority refuses to surrender, just lower your shoulders, relax and apply a bucket of "I don't give a damn", and play passively. Just farm, don't make plays, do the least of the effort you feel like you can manage if a teamfight breaks out, but leave the rest to themselves and await the Defeat-screen. Sometimes, people just aren't worth your time and effort. And sometimes you just gotta go with the flow, and let the losers (as in: those who have lost their lane) have it their way. Report as necessary after the game, take a break, maybe for the rest of the day, and try again tomorrow.
> [{quoted}](name=PaladinNO,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0071,timestamp=2016-08-04T00:47:06.131+0000) > > While I did initially vote "No" here (mostly because you didn't use the "money spent"-argument, like most people do), I do kinda regret that decision after having read the other 2 games on the Pastebin. > > While those other 2 were in no way acceptable, the most important factor here is the time passed between all these 3 games (which you didn't state for the record). Once, or even two-time offenses, can happen to anyone, but it is within what timeframe that is important. > > And judging by ALL 3 chat logs, you should've known better at some point than to keep arguing. When you feel you just can't take it anymore, and you just want out - despite you insisting, from your perspective, your team can win the game (which may very well be true) - you apply that mute all, and you throw the surrender vote. > > If the majority refuses to surrender, just lower your shoulders, relax and apply a bucket of "I don't give a damn", and play passively. Just farm, don't make plays, do the least of the effort you feel like you can manage if a teamfight breaks out, but leave the rest to themselves and await the Defeat-screen. > > Sometimes, people just aren't worth your time and effort. And sometimes you just gotta go with the flow, and let the losers (as in: those who have lost their lane) have it their way. Report as necessary after the game, take a break, maybe for the rest of the day, and try again tomorrow. This was in the span of 15 games. Given this information, you could claim that I'm consistently toxic. But that misses the point, the point is I had 3 afks in the span of 5 games, and then game 2 which happened around 10 games later. People in this thread claim that it's rare to have a rage quitter or a troll, but from my experience it's a consistent problem that needs to be addressed.
: 1. You only provided a single game. In reality, you were punished for multiple games, and 3 games were given in your reform card. You should post those games as well if you are truly looking for valid input on your punishment. Edit: It looks like you added a pastebin of the other games after the fact but did not update the post text. 2. You have previously had a 10-game chat restriction, a 25-game chat restriction, and a 14-day ban in a short period of time. This means the next punishment of any type would result in a perma-ban. > It seems the majority of people think this punishment is too harsh, although a punishment was needed If you agree with this, then based upon escalation, the perma-ban should be the expected result. If you feel your ban is unjustified, you can open a player support ticket and they will review that case manually. I'm not passing any opinion on your case; I haven't read through all of the logs, etc. I just wanted to give a few pieces of information that may be relevant.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0057,timestamp=2016-08-03T18:46:54.809+0000) > > 1. You only provided a single game. In reality, you were punished for multiple games, and 3 games were given in your reform card. You should post those games as well if you are truly looking for valid input on your punishment. > Edit: > It looks like you added a pastebin of the other games after the fact but did not update the post text. > > 2. You have previously had a 10-game chat restriction, a 25-game chat restriction, and a 14-day ban in a short period of time. This means the next punishment of any type would result in a perma-ban. > > If you agree with this, then based upon escalation, the perma-ban should be the expected result. > > If you feel your ban is unjustified, you can open a player support ticket and they will review that case manually. > > I'm not passing any opinion on your case; I haven't read through all of the logs, etc. I just wanted to give a few pieces of information that may be relevant. Thank you, I submitted a support ticket. I think it's important that the punishment fit the crime. Just as a majority, popular opinion believes people should not be locked up in prison for certain crimes, a large majority of this population believes you should not be perma banned over partial chat logs and relatively mild chat abuse. This is important when creating punishments for crimes in League; players will not reform if they believe they have been treated unfairly. Last resort punishments need to solve the original problem, not push it to the side. In this case, a perma-mute or perma-restriction is the only fair punishment. Anything else, and you either miss your mark or cause more unrelated problems.
: Lol remember me? My main was InvalidGaming and you duo'd with me a little bit. I got perma banned the same day I got Diamond 5 for "extremely inflammatory and offensive in-game messages" when all I did was call my jungler a noob and my midlaner toxic/useless. Apparently that's egregiously negative and worthy of a permanent ban of an account that I spent 2 years playing and $750 on. "It doesn't matter how much time/money you spent," Uh actually it should, you selfish Reddit %%%. :D "Calling other playes noobs, useless, wishing they get banned, threatening to report others, and bringing your team's internal drama to all chat are all not acceptable," -Riot Support. I heard that in D5+ if you're even the slightest bit negative you get perma'd ASAP. Riot is the only company that bans people for "being negative" lmao. Back in the good days you got banned for hacking, not calling a random person who doesn't know or respect you, a noob.
> [{quoted}](name=InvalidGaming,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0054,timestamp=2016-08-03T18:22:12.495+0000) > > Lol remember me? My main was InvalidGaming and you duo'd with me a little bit. I got perma banned the same day I got Diamond 5 for "extremely inflammatory and offensive in-game messages" when all I did was call my jungler a noob and my midlaner toxic/useless. Apparently that's egregiously negative and worthy of a permanent ban of an account that I spent 2 years playing and $750 on. "It doesn't matter how much time/money you spent," Uh actually it should, you selfish Reddit %%%. :D "Calling other playes noobs, useless, wishing they get banned, threatening to report others, and bringing your team's internal drama to all chat are all not acceptable," -Riot Support. I heard that in D5+ if you're even the slightest bit negative you get perma'd ASAP. Riot is the only company that bans people for "being negative" lmao. Back in the good days you got banned for hacking, not calling a random person who doesn't know or respect you, a noob. Lol you got perma banned too? I was wondering why you weren't online. You weren't toxic in a single game we played, and we played 5 very frustrating games. I'm sorry to hear that, we made a damn good team.
: Yes this ban was justified. I have read this over and over and I still vote yes. You literally said "Should I have muted chat and shut up? Of course. But when my teammates flamed me, gave up, and then held me hostage for 8 minutes, there was no way to contain my frustration." Dude. Thats what mute button is for. There was a clear way to contain your frustration. Also, you should not have caused pointless drama by saying "lol wtf". Now, people just abuse "laugh out loud" and just type it when they don't have anything else to say. Use these terms correctly. It doesn't matter that she picked Riven top, just stick with it and encourage her efforts to win lane. "Then yes. This is a justified punishment. It means you have had continues negative/toxic behavior in games. Even after your 14 day ban, which even tells you that your next punishment WILL be a permanent ban, you kept having a negative/toxic attitude in your games." I think now you just hoped you could evade the ban. You were warned. Doesn't matter if you mention Diamond 1. Finally, you spammed chat way to much. Do not type if you don't have to, you gave them an excuse to report you. Thanks for reading.
> [{quoted}](name=TheDarkFighterz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=003f,timestamp=2016-08-03T15:30:04.619+0000) > > Yes this ban was justified. I have read this over and over and I still vote yes. > You literally said "Should I have muted chat and shut up? Of course. But when my teammates flamed me, gave up, and then held me hostage for 8 minutes, there was no way to contain my frustration." > Dude. > Thats what mute button is for. > There was a clear way to contain your frustration. > Also, you should not have caused pointless drama by saying "lol wtf". > Now, people just abuse "laugh out loud" and just type it when they don't have anything else to say. Use these terms correctly. > It doesn't matter that she picked Riven top, just stick with it and encourage her efforts to win lane. > Doesn't matter if you mention Diamond 1. > Finally, you spammed chat way to much. Do not type if you don't have to, you gave them an excuse to report you. > Thanks for reading. I do not care about flame. I care about being berated by tilted and afk rage quitters. Muting accomplishes nothing on my end. However if they muted me? Problem solved, they can happily continue to ruin the game while I try my hardest to carry them. I would love to know how "lol wtf" creates pointless drama, do you even know the context in which I made that remark? It is likely my teammate made a 1v1 outplay, and I'm surprised and happy. You're grasping at strings and I'm tearing through them with a machete, your argument holds no weight.
Elikain (EUNE)
: You keep trying to give me an excuse about your actions but the bottom line is - flaming is toxic. Doesn't matter if you're responding to someone else's flame, you're continuing with the spread of toxicity and if you're smarter than that, muting the player and getting on with your life is the appropriate call to make. Firing back once or twice at them isn't going to get you banned but the chat logs you provided is literally filled with messages. You maybe responded in the first place to someone else's flaming but you certainly went with it to the end and adopted the same shitty attitude you condemned your teammates for. You can't make the people try in games because you can only affect the game through your own actions. These actions don't need to include flaming as a side dish to make things spicy. You report the players for giving up and afking, the same as you would do for anyone who is disrupting the game. You can't be seriously expecting that they deserve to be punished but when you copy and paste the same behavior on your side, it doesn't deserve a punishment? You can only earn a perma if you had 2 prior strikes. This was your 3rd one that warranted it. It's not harsh at all. You had 2 chances and the punishments apparently kept escalating - this is the response.
> [{quoted}](name=Elikain,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=003600000000,timestamp=2016-08-03T15:21:19.636+0000) > > You keep trying to give me an excuse about your actions but the bottom line is - flaming is toxic. Doesn't matter if you're responding to someone else's flame, you're continuing with the spread of toxicity and if you're smarter than that, muting the player and getting on with your life is the appropriate call to make. > > Firing back once or twice at them isn't going to get you banned but the chat logs you provided is literally filled with messages. You maybe responded in the first place to someone else's flaming but you certainly went with it to the end and adopted the same shitty attitude you condemned your teammates for. > > You can't make the people try in games because you can only affect the game through your own actions. These actions don't need to include flaming as a side dish to make things spicy. You report the players for giving up and afking, the same as you would do for anyone who is disrupting the game. > > You can't be seriously expecting that they deserve to be punished but when you copy and paste the same behavior on your side, it doesn't deserve a punishment? You can only earn a perma if you had 2 prior strikes. This was your 3rd one that warranted it. It's not harsh at all. You had 2 chances and the punishments apparently kept escalating - this is the response. My reactions were a product of the actions of my teammates. Sure, removing me from the game makes for some juicy statistics. Removing a troll from the game would have an infinitely greater effect and would actually accomplish something: decreasing toxicity. Being flamed at in a game that is done and over with while being held hostage by 3 teammates who have no intentions of trying to win (#4 is afk) is the breeding ground of a toxic environment. Me saying "ff we lose"? There is just no comparison.
: I honestly don't understand why were banned at all? I think you just talk too much which gives people ammo to report you? But nothing I can find in your chat logs save the occasional curse word would justify any kind of punishment at all. You're just annoying your teammates with how much you chat would be my guess which is getting you reports. But yea, definitely not blitz... er justified banned to any rational reasonable person I think.
> [{quoted}](name=Eternal Zen,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=003c,timestamp=2016-08-03T15:21:50.632+0000) > > I honestly don't understand why were banned at all? I think you just talk too much which gives people ammo to report you? But nothing I can find in your chat logs save the occasional curse word would justify any kind of punishment at all. You're just annoying your teammates with how much you chat would be my guess which is getting you reports. But yea, definitely not blitz... er justified banned to any rational reasonable person I think. This is what I have gathered, seeing how much I type puts it into perspective. Being such a vocal player makes me a target. It takes seconds to report someone, and if I say one thing that annoys someone, they may just report me because they can.
: Sorry to tell you but i don't care what your adc did neither the rest.. Im discussing about your punishment not what about your teammates have done in these games.. Im discussing that you're not better than them in terms of behaviour,you flamed them, called for reports, Mute button does exist but you didn't use it you for good, you received your ban soon they will too there's no escape.
> [{quoted}](name=Wired Vagina,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=003800000000,timestamp=2016-08-03T15:23:29.621+0000) > > Sorry to tell you but i don't care what your adc did neither the rest.. Im discussing about your punishment not what about your teammates have done in these games.. Im discussing that you're not better than them in terms of behaviour,you flamed them, called for reports, Mute button does exist but you didn't use it you for good, you received your ban soon they will too there's no escape. That is called tunnel vision, it isn't healthy. Look at the bigger picture, view the context, and then make a decision. Relying on such a narrow view of the problem is what has brought us to this point. The chat logs appear to be much worse than they actually are, read a few comments back and you will see my explanations.
Tizull (NA)
: How do you find the time to type so much in game? All you do is talk and make other people salty?
> [{quoted}](name=Tizull,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0039,timestamp=2016-08-03T14:58:16.719+0000) > > How do you find the time to type so much in game? All you do is talk and make other people salty? I make calls, time spells, and give advice at the beginning. The majority of the chat spam comes after the team gives up and loses focus or throws rather than listening to calls. There is lots of time to type during the downtime in a losing game. I didn't type flame to make my team mad, I typed flame to teammates who were already mad and causing me to lose by trolling the game or giving up.
: Ok so in Game 1 you said ff then never ff and you don't give up and 3rd Game you've been calling for surrender are you for real ? Imo you deserved this ban definetly.. And you're that annoying type i cannot handle ingame spaming all the time in the Chat all the time, Riot gave you 3 chances before getting a Permaban so you behave and stop flaming your teammates so yeah you screwed it up, you called some of your teammates "ridiculous,useless,trolls,telling the enemy team to report them,telling your teammates they suck" and much more. If you wanna play on smurfs first thing to do is to stop whining in Chat maybe they don't ban your smurfs. This punishment is definetly justified.
> [{quoted}](name=Wired Vagina,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0038,timestamp=2016-08-03T14:48:00.904+0000) > > Ok so in Game 1 you said ff then never ff and you don't give up and 3rd Game you've been calling for surrender are you for real ? Imo you deserved this ban definetly.. And you're that annoying type i cannot handle ingame spaming all the time in the Chat all the time, Riot gave you 3 chances before getting a Permaban so you behave and stop flaming your teammates so yeah you screwed it up, you called some of your teammates "ridiculous,useless,trolls,telling the enemy team to report them,telling your teammates they suck" and much more. > If you wanna play on smurfs first thing to do is to stop whining in Chat maybe they don't ban your smurfs. > This punishment is definetly justified. I called for a surrender because my adc gave up and chose to flame me. Then she came back and I was trying to win. Then top lane gave up and mid started flaming and the game was done so I just wanted out. Third game was over because everyone got crushed and lost focus and top lane gave up and left the game. So yes, I begged for a surrender.
Elikain (EUNE)
: I've taken a look at this and these: _**Game 1**_ - pure passive-aggressive after the half of your chat log. Started OK but you f'd it up. _**Game 2**_ - pure passive-aggressive again and not even after half, you started threatening your team that if they keep whatever up, you'd leave. _**Game 3**_ - "I am tilted", "i am d1 smurf", "fuck this ELO", "just ff", "don't waste my time, ff at 14", she's broken", "lost 4 games in a row because of trash players". Passive-aggressive and griefing again... I've seen enough to tell you that you rightfully deserved to be punished. Riot doesn't hand out permabans just like that. To get a perma, you have to push through like a madman and not even look back at your prior strikes. You've gotten chat logs from 3 games that were sure signs of you being a dick and you've probably walked on thin ice for quite a while before you've been thrown out the door. ##A lot of people constantly say that if they are provoked, their actions are completely justified. If someone flamed you and decided to be a %%%% about it, then you mute and play the game. Then you block them and report them at the end of the game, listing the offences and explaining what happened. That's the deal. Being frustrated a few times and then muting once you know you won't get anywhere with arguing is the key here, not continuing to pollute the chat for everyone - even if the rest of the people enjoy eating this shit and keep spewing their own. --- #You didn't get a perma for this, you have gotten prior strikes before. #You had 2 strikes and this was the 3rd one that warranted your permanent ban.
> [{quoted}](name=Elikain,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0036,timestamp=2016-08-03T14:43:58.382+0000) > > I've taken a look at this and these: > > _**Game 1**_ - pure passive-aggressive after the half of your chat log. Started OK but you f'd it up. I had my bot lane flame me and threaten multiple times to afk, then finally the adc went afk for a few minutes time. My top laner gave up, and my mid laner started to flame me because she was duo with the adc who I asked everyone to report for ruining the game. Justified? No, but certainly not ban worthy. > _**Game 2**_ - pure passive-aggressive again and not even after half, you started threatening your team that if they keep whatever up, you'd leave. Players were throwing our huge lead left and right and chose to not respect the calls. I was not on a champion that could hard carry the game. I got upset and gave them an ultimatum, listen or I'm done. Would I quit? No. But any player who wants to win will buckle up and choose to listen. Sometimes you have to be aggressive to get unfocused players to listen. There are better ways to go about this, but I don't have time to type a novel of positive reinforcement to tilted players who can't go 30 seconds without trying to 1v2. This problem could be easily solved with voice chat though! > _**Game 3**_ - "I am tilted", "i am d1 smurf", "fuck this ELO", "just ff", "don't waste my time, ff at 14", she's broken", "lost 4 games in a row because of trash players". Passive-aggressive and griefing again... Every lane lost, every role lost. We were out-matched, and our top laner gave up and left the game. Talking about my previous losses in chat is unnecessary but should not be a factor in a ban; it's just talk. > I've seen enough to tell you that you rightfully deserved to be punished. > Riot doesn't hand out permabans just like that. To get a perma, you have to push through like a madman and not even look back at your prior strikes. You've gotten chat logs from 3 games that were sure signs of you being a dick and you've probably walked on thin ice for quite a while before you've been thrown out the door. > > > ##A lot of people constantly say that if they are provoked, their actions are completely justified. If someone flamed you and decided to be a %%%% about it, then you mute and play the game. Then you block them and report them at the end of the game, listing the offences and explaining what happened. That's the deal. > > Being frustrated a few times and then muting once you know you won't get anywhere with arguing is the key here, not continuing to pollute the chat for everyone - even if the rest of the people enjoy eating this shit and keep spewing their own. Muting chat will not convince players to try. Muting chat will not convince players to come back. I can't just shut up at that MMR and stop communicating, if no one steps up then the team is screwed. I also don't have time to sit there convincing them to return, I need them to shut up, stop trolling, and get their head in the game ASAP. There just isn't time for me to focus on the game, call shots, and convince whiny people to gain some mental fortitude.
: I'd say it depends on your past history. This game alone definitely didn't warrant a permanent suspension, but if you talk like this every game for 27 games in a row I'd say yes it was justified. I've said MUCH worse things to my team before but these occasions are so few and far between that I've gotten away with chat restrictions and temporary suspensions. Another factor that might play into it is how positive you are regularly. In the games when I don't flame I am a very positive player. I always try to encourage my team, give advice on what we should focus on to win, give helpful tips, and I also play tanky support type champions a lot so as you can imagine I get honored quite often. Believe me I do try to make myself a better person and avoid flaming as much as possible but when I'm on a huge losing streak the stress can cause me to lose my temper every once in a while.
> [{quoted}](name=CEO of Swag Inc,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0034,timestamp=2016-08-03T14:38:36.218+0000) > > I'd say it depends on your past history. This game alone definitely didn't warrant a permanent suspension, but if you talk like this every game for 27 games in a row I'd say yes it was justified. I've said MUCH worse things to my team before but these occasions are so few and far between that I've gotten away with chat restrictions and temporary suspensions. Another factor that might play into it is how positive you are regularly. In the games when I don't flame I am a very positive player. I always try to encourage my team, give advice on what we should focus on to win, give helpful tips, and I also play tanky support type champions a lot so as you can imagine I get honored quite often. Believe me I do try to make myself a better person and avoid flaming as much as possible but when I'm on a huge losing streak the stress can cause me to lose my temper every once in a while. If you read game 1, it is clear how I normally chat. I make calls, time summoners, give advice, and remind people not to do certain things. It's when Sivir finally starts going off on me and then afks for a few minutes that I say: >Me: Report sivir for extreme negativity and toxicity, I am done giving her chances. >Me: muted chat >Me: ty :LD And then I go back to my normal role. Then the team falls apart due to lack of focus and flame, and that's when I went off on them. It's clear that I am not inherently toxic. This is the case for most games.
WolfChases (EUNE)
: Last night enemy Lee Sin has wished me a cancer because I counterganked and killed him. It was exactly like this: LeeSin: I wish you die of cancer. Me: Wtf Lee? LeeSin: I know I am an idiot. Me: I see. LeeSin: Stfu Me: Please..... And I can bet he didn't recieve ANY sort of punishment. I don't know how does the tribunal for punishments works, but if I find out, I'll kill it. Back on topic. Dude you have my support and I hope your account will be given back to you as soon as possible.
> [{quoted}](name=Tetreb1992,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0033,timestamp=2016-08-03T14:36:19.438+0000) > > Last night enemy Lee Sin has wished me a cancer because I counterganked and killed him. > > It was exactly like this: > > LeeSin: I wish you die of cancer. > Me: Wtf Lee? > LeeSin: I know I am an idiot. > Me: I see. > LeeSin: Stfu > Me: Please..... > > > And I can bet he didn't recieve ANY sort of punishment. > > > I don't know how does the tribunal for punishments works, but if I find out, I'll kill it. > > > Back on topic. Dude you have my support and I hope your account will be given back to you as soon as possible. He may receive a punishment once he reaches their report threshold, I'm sure the system targets "cancer" and "idiot" when creating chat logs for the reform card. I appreciate your support, as much as I believe toxic chat is inappropriate, there are too many other variables involved. Ideally, I would like to see chat restrictions and mutes of some form as the go-to punishment for verbal toxicity.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wuks,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=000e00000000,timestamp=2016-08-03T09:38:31.669+0000) > You don't really need to justify why you were toxic; the only thing that matters is whether you were toxic and perpetuating a negative environment for other players. Once the Instant Feedback determines that you did do that, it puts your account standing more in the red until a punishment is applied. I hope you realize when making decisions which involve punishment the most important thing to understand is the defendant's motive for doing something so that the "jury"(tribunal) can empathize so that the defendant, riot, and the community tribunal; can A) either reform this soon to be player or B) find what makes people playing the game tick and establish a new system or guidelines so that this form of "crime"(toxicity) doesn't happen again Riot is treating the permaban punishment the same way the american government treats it's prison system which is institutionalizing your player base and treating the permaban system like a 25 year sentence that if the "permabanned player"(ex convict) makes a smurf account(or is released from prison 25 years later) chances are they won't be able to fit back into society(the league of legends community/real world) because they don't know how to function(enjoy the game) because it's never really established through the method of punishment both systems offer. This game (league) is just a gold mine for toxic behavior to be found because the higher ups only solution to fix a problem is through absolutes they either let the person play the game with all the fixings(the game itself, hextech loot system, the chat function, club options, ranked, chat, ect.) Did it ever occur to Riot that an easy way to fix toxicity is *drum roll* Permanent Chat Restriction. As My reformed self and many other players who were permanently banned the reason for our punishment was for shit talking in a video game(aka toxicity) not running it down mid, not for using 3rd party applications(aka scripts or Fog of War disables) but for using a function which they provide us with. I'm all for punishment but when you punish someone for the right reason, but in the wrong way; it creates a mindset that isn't healthy for cooperative gameplay or even lifestyles. If someone has a problem with shit talking in the game, but actually enjoys playing the game and has a decent winrate/ personal enjoyment while playing, but shit talks nonetheless clearly the obvious form of absolute punishment isn't too permanent restrict them access to their account(ban) it's to permanently disable one or more of the features that you provide to this game(hextech crafting, chat, seasonal rewards, and possibly ranked.) Does Riot ever think that while their game is a "child" despite being a 7 year old beast of a creation, that they should follow after major companies like microsoft/sony (ignore the hacking incidents) and have specific punishments for specific situations. It's only then that your player base will become truely or atleast mostly delighted with what the game has to offer. For the record I know you're a warden/volunteer forums public servant and you don't technically work for riot but the fact that they gave you that position/title means that you have the slightest bit of connection to being "staff"
> [{quoted}](name=TheVoidScyther,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=000e000000000002,timestamp=2016-08-03T14:30:11.651+0000) > > I hope you realize when making decisions which involve punishment the most important thing to understand is the defendant's motive for doing something so that the "jury"(tribunal) can empathize so that the defendant, riot, and the community tribunal; can > A) either reform this soon to be player or > B) find what makes people playing the game tick and establish a new system or guidelines so that this form of "crime"(toxicity) doesn't happen again > > Riot is treating the permaban punishment the same way the american government treats it's prison system > which is institutionalizing your player base and treating the permaban system like a 25 year sentence > that if the "permabanned player"(ex convict) makes a smurf account(or is released from prison 25 years later) > chances are they won't be able to fit back into society(the league of legends community/real world) because they > don't know how to function(enjoy the game) because it's never really established through the method of punishment both > systems offer. That is an interesting way to view this scenario. It is kind of fitting when applied in that way. > This game (league) is just a gold mine for toxic behavior to be found because the higher ups only solution to fix a problem is through absolutes they either let the person play the game with all the fixings(the game itself, hextech loot system, the chat function, club options, ranked, chat, ect.) Did it ever occur to Riot that an easy way to fix toxicity is *drum roll* Permanent Chat Restriction. As My reformed self and many other players who were permanently banned the reason for our punishment was for shit talking in a video game(aka toxicity) not running it down mid, not for using 3rd party applications(aka scripts or Fog of War disables) but for using a function which they provide us with. I'm all for punishment but when you punish someone for the right reason, but in the wrong way; it creates a mindset that isn't healthy for cooperative gameplay or even lifestyles. If someone has a problem with shit talking in the game, but actually enjoys playing the game and has a decent winrate/ personal enjoyment while playing, but shit talks nonetheless clearly the obvious form of absolute punishment isn't too permanent restrict them access to their account(ban) it's to permanently disable one or more of the features that you provide to this game(hextech crafting, chat, seasonal rewards, and possibly ranked.) Does Riot ever think that while their game is a "child" despite being a 7 year old beast of a creation, that they should follow after major companies like microsoft/sony (ignore the hacking incidents) and have specific punishments for specific situations. It's only then that your player base will become truely or atleast mostly delighted with what the game has to offer. > For the record I know you're a warden/volunteer forums public servant and you don't technically work for riot but the fact that they gave you that position/title means that you have the slightest bit of connection to being "staff" This would make the most sense. I believe Riot had good intentions and a clear goal; to rid the game of toxicity and create a positive environment. They tried to account for the players who were circumventing the punishment system by creating stricter punishments with less chances, but that just forced players to sneakily troll games with no chance of being caught. While there are many possible solutions, I believe a final punishment that targets only the original problem (toxic chat) is the solution they need to implement.
: >Me: i d1 smurf i hate you for what you are i dont know what elo you were in trash talking and getting angry, but gtfo and get on your main. stop trolling noobs
> [{quoted}](name=S H A Y C 0,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0031,timestamp=2016-08-03T14:29:57.564+0000) > > i hate you for what you are > > i dont know what elo you were in trash talking and getting angry, but gtfo and get on your main. stop trolling noobs I was diamond 1 months ago, but game sense and macro play does not go away that easily. Now I am a d1 smurf in gold, is that any more fair? I have every right to be angry at players who troll games. Although the trash talking was unnecessary, I had people give up and quit the game. If there is anything that warrants any level of trash talking, that would be it.
Goatfish (NA)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=The Wart,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=002e,timestamp=2016-08-03T14:12:47.222+0000) > > eh, i would say you don't deserve punishment for this game, but certainly a warning. Shit like this, " just ridiculous ppl waste my time"...and other statements putting down their rank. > > However, if you had already received multiple warnings leading up to this, then it could merit a perma ban. The level of toxicity isn't so important so much as the frequency; frequent offenders are dealt with as you seem to have been. > > Lastly, context is irrelevant. I would agree it in fact should be more relevant, but with the sheer number of games played and text typed throughout the various servers, human eyes can't judge all these cases (not without tribunal anyway)...so that's just how the system is and you seem to have crossed the line. > > Sucks, but i don't feel bad for you. I was 2-week banned for defending myself against someone specifically targeting and flaming the hell oout of me. I wasn't gonna take it, (i should have), so i retorted rather colorfully. Then I was told context didn't matter; it didn't matter he called me a "useless piece of trash that should end myself" to which i responded with some profanity of my own. Sucks but it's their system you have to abide by Context does not excuse toxicity towards players. But context is very necessary when it isn't known whether comments are being made towards players, and with what tone those comments were being made. See the reply I made a few comments ago, where I provide context to some toxic statements picked out by someone. Most of the comments are not as they seem at first glance, yet at first glance they look very rude.
: If you spent half as much time playing the game as you did calling people toxic, you would be challenger. Mute, report, and move on. Also, I doubt this was your first punishment. The system goes 10 games, 25 games, 14 days, perma. You don't have to increase in severity to reach perma. You just have to continue doing what you're doing. I mean geeze, the amount of time you spent crying over "toxic" is ridiculous, especially when you weren't even the fairy godmother of League either. Pot calling the kettle black will certainly lead to punishment. It just so happens that your next punishment in line was a perma.
> [{quoted}](name=I Go Pew Pew Pew,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=002f,timestamp=2016-08-03T14:13:50.686+0000) > > If you spent half as much time playing the game as you did calling people toxic, you would be challenger. > > Mute, report, and move on. > > Also, I doubt this was your first punishment. The system goes 10 games, 25 games, 14 days, perma. You don't have to increase in severity to reach perma. You just have to continue doing what you're doing. > > I mean geeze, the amount of time you spent crying over "toxic" is ridiculous, especially when you weren't even the fairy godmother of League either. Pot calling the kettle black will certainly lead to punishment. It just so happens that your next punishment in line was a perma. My toxic words are nowhere near as damaging to the state of the game as my teammate's toxic actions. I made a bad choice to lash out at players who were giving up and even going afk. It wasn't right of me, but it surely is a lot worse to ruin the state of the game and give your teammates no hope at a comeback by quitting. I agree I should mute and move on; the frustration of being hopeless while trying to maintain a high win rate, high champion statistics, and a good match history got to me.
: >Edit2: It seems the majority of people think this punishment is too harsh, although a punishment was needed. I have submitted a ticket explaining how I intend to correct my use of text chat in game, and I hope to have my account reinstated as a final chance. Wish me luck, and thank you all for the responses! Punishment needed? You did nothing wrong. From the sounds of it Sivir/Riven/LB were being toxic. I saw maybe, MAYBE one thing in there that made me raise my eyebrows at the context, which was "Me: Why even play then?" Other then that honestly you were being pretty positive, maybe a little bossy at best. You made some comments like "NICE" and "Its ok" and had the classic my-team-is-going-to-lose-but-im-staying-positive statment, "DW guys, we outscale". Normally these "WHY WAS I PERMABANNED" threads are BS, but I see no reason for you to have even had a ban, much less a permaban. Okay so I read the full chat logs and while I still don't think you are deserving of a perma ban, there were some things that were pretty toxic (Albeit nowhere near the levels that I see on a daily basis) Me: this talon Me: so gud Me: idgaf Me: stupiod fucking Me: fuck Me: so stupid Me: wow Me: just stupid Me: \our map control is gone Me: we lose Me: all our control Me: because of those plays. Me: no more dueling Me: i told you Me: WE LOSE DUELS Me: TF ONLY Me: TF Me: ONLY Me: EVERYONE Me: NOW Me: TF Me: TF Me: NO DUELS Me: FUCK Me: SO MANY THROWS Me: ONE MORE DUEL I LEAVE Me: how the fuck Me: do you guys suck Me: i dont get it Me: you fight on me you win Me: then you chase Me: and do stupid shit Me: and die Me: Talon useless* Me: that feel when you diuamond 1 smurf and lose 4 games ina row to trash players. Me: the kid was in my last game Me: shoulda seen his kass. Me: Absolutely horrible So I mean, you are by no means a positivity saint, but you also don't deserve a permaban IMO. Although to be fair, I would probably have reported you for unsportmanlike conduct since you are so ~~passive~~aggressive in chat
> [{quoted}](name=Nevernewyear,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=002a,timestamp=2016-08-03T14:01:41.622+0000) > > Punishment needed? You did nothing wrong. From the sounds of it Sivir/Riven/LB were being toxic. I saw maybe, MAYBE one thing in there that made me raise my eyebrows at the context, which was "Me: Why even play then?" Other then that honestly you were being pretty positive, maybe a little bossy at best. You made some comments like "NICE" and "Its ok" and had the classic my-team-is-going-to-lose-but-im-staying-positive statment, "DW guys, we outscale". > > Normally these "WHY WAS I PERMABANNED" threads are BS, but I see no reason for you to have even had a ban, much less a permaban. > > Okay so I read the full chat logs and while I still don't think you are deserving of a perma ban, there were some things that were pretty toxic (Albeit nowhere near the levels that I see on a daily basis) Please read the first edit which contains all of the chat logs, games 2 and 3 were more toxic if you don't consider the context of the game, which the report system does not. I was technically smurfing as I have been higher than diamond 5 in the past, so I fully intended to carry those games from behind, but I was unable to do so due to the trolls and quitters. I'm glad you were able to come to that conclusion in game 1 though, it's really difficult to interpret the chat when you're only given what the person says; it makes them appear far more antisocial. **I would like to respond to these highlights you included in your post. Hopefully this provides some context, which you would not otherwise know if you were reading the chat logs without my explanation. It puts things into perspective about how warped the punishment system is.** > Me: this talon > Me: so gud I was serious, he was making plays 1v1 and 1v2 and coming out on top. I wanted to make that clear in all chat, give him a morale boost. > Me: idgaf > Me: stupiod fucking > Me: fuck > Me: so stupid > Me: wow > Me: just stupid I believe in this game we were facing an Elise, and she kept one shotting me in my jungle and then one shot ganking lanes. She did it multiple times and I said stupid each time. We just could not regain our balance with her pressure. > Me: how the fuck > Me: do you guys suck > Me: i dont get it > Me: you fight on me you win > Me: then you chase > Me: and do stupid shit > Me: and die This was toxic. I was trying to shotcall and my top/mid who were our main damage threats were split pushing and attempting to make 1vX picks into a Karma. They ended up throwing our lead and we could not recover; this was my (unnecessary) response. > Me: that feel when you diuamond 1 smurf and lose 4 games ina row to trash players. This was a sarcastic comment made to the enemy team who was stomping us in every role, at this point in the game it was just banter back and forth; my top laner had given up and afkd. > Me: the kid was in my last game > Me: shoulda seen his kass. > Me: Absolutely horrible This player was toxic towards me in the previous game because I did not gank his lane early (he was Kassadin and I was Graves lol). He was extremely toxic towards me and I lashed out at him in this game.
Saltinc (NA)
: Lol "if ur seocnd timing a champ in ranked you are d5 skill lvl." i love this cause i second time a lot of champs in silver :D
> [{quoted}](name=JP Salt Inc,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=002b,timestamp=2016-08-03T14:04:29.633+0000) > > Lol "if ur seocnd timing a champ in ranked you are d5 skill lvl." i love this cause i second time a lot of champs in silver :D Matchmaking was balanced around a diamond 3 MMR. Because our Riven was second timing her champion in a ranked game, matchmaking was very skewed in the opponents favor and she was not playing at her diamond 2 skill level.
: Now I'm going to ask the obvious question. Are you sure you aren't being punished because of your Summoner Name?
> [{quoted}](name=Blueknives,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0029,timestamp=2016-08-03T13:40:33.211+0000) > > Now I'm going to ask the obvious question. Are you sure you aren't being punished because of your Summoner Name? Positive. Would you factor it into a permanent account suspension? I haven't had one single person bring up my name in over 100 games and multiple forum posts. I think I pointed it out one time and the person didn't even get it.
: Hmm. Well it is possible that some of your teammates thought they were trying to win, and just not doing well at it. Which sucks. But I dunno if there's ever justification for having to say the words "I'm not toxic unless...". It sucks, because based on these 3 games alone, it doesn't warrant a perm ban, but there were other punishments before, and it takes effort to get to the point of a perma ban. I know you said you'd been better since the last one, but (and this part is on Riot) with how the system works, if you're already one step away from perma ban, it's not enough to be less toxic, you almost have to be free of reportable offenses altogether. Anyway, you do seem like a pretty chill dude though outside of game, and I hope you continue to play (I think I saw somewhere that this was just on a smurf?).
> [{quoted}](name=Mr Fidori,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=000a000100000000,timestamp=2016-08-03T13:29:04.458+0000) > > Hmm. Well it is possible that some of your teammates thought they were trying to win, and just not doing well at it. Which sucks. But I dunno if there's ever justification for having to say the words "I'm not toxic unless...". > > It sucks, because based on these 3 games alone, it doesn't warrant a perm ban, but there were other punishments before, and it takes effort to get to the point of a perma ban. I know you said you'd been better since the last one, but (and this part is on Riot) with how the system works, if you're already one step away from perma ban, it's not enough to be less toxic, you almost have to be free of reportable offenses altogether. > > Anyway, you do seem like a pretty chill dude though outside of game, and I hope you continue to play (I think I saw somewhere that this was just on a smurf?). I can tell when teammates are trying to win and not, and in the example games given in my chat logs, some of my teammates who gave up let everyone know in chat. My comms just need to not include the toxicity towards trolls, and I now realize how bad it looked. It's just sickening to know how easily they get off without punishment when all it takes is a cocky one-liner with trigger words to set off the report system. And like I said in previous comments, even when I don't flame at trolls, I still get a good number of reports. People naturally don't like when someone takes charge when that someone is a stranger who may not even be doing well himself. I will be queueing on a smurf, but I will have to climb the ladder again, ruining 100+ games along the way because there is less than 10% chance I will lose any game below diamond. I just want to bring awareness to this issue, the system is broken and the "solution" causes a lot more harm than good.
: > [{quoted}](name=Apulmadikout,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=000e000000010000,timestamp=2016-08-03T09:54:17.384+0000) > > They entered a ranked game, thus they should be trying their hardest to win the game. Most players do not bother actively communicating, they do whatever they want to do and hope it all works out. I prefer to win easy games, so I make calls, and I expect people to follow those calls, communicate an alternative, or at the very minimum communicate "no". You can't enter a ranked game in mid diamond and expect to zone out to a win. If you aren't doing everything you are capable of doing to win, you're a detriment to the team. If else wants to step up, I am going to fill that role. Right. So you can't possibly see how having some random jackoff from the Internet giving you orders and telling you off like he is in charge is something people don't want?
> [{quoted}](name=EvilDustMan,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=000e0000000100000000,timestamp=2016-08-03T13:18:04.621+0000) > > Right. So you can't possibly see how having some random jackoff from the Internet giving you orders and telling you off like he is in charge is something people don't want? Often times, I find myself lost in game. I may have zoned out and fell behind, or lost focus and was unable to catch up with the flow of the game. Or maybe there is someone in the game who is a better player than me in every way. In either situation, I welcome having a teammate step up and call the shots. Having one voice lead the team towards an end goal is extremely efficient; it's the same model businesses, groups, and organizations use. A lot of newly hired minimum wage workers don't want their "jerkoff manager" bossing them around. But how well would the business run if they didn't have someone calling the shots and watching over them? Same concept. I take charge, I get shit done, I hopefully win the game, and I move on to the next one. If you don't like that system, I recommend you play normal games. The chickens will welcome you with slaughtered necks.
: People have differing definitions of "lost game". For most people, it's when the enemy gets first blood (which is sad). But I have a hard time seeing how trying to win a game, even when far behind is "toxic", and more importantly, how lashing out helps anything.
> [{quoted}](name=Mr Fidori,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=000a0001,timestamp=2016-08-03T13:11:28.895+0000) > > People have differing definitions of "lost game". For most people, it's when the enemy gets first blood (which is sad). But I have a hard time seeing how trying to win a game, even when far behind is "toxic", and more importantly, how lashing out helps anything. The point is, they are not trying to win a game. In game 1 my adc and top went afk and just cleared minion waves until we surrendered. In game 3 my entire team got smashed and my top lane went afk. Both of these games were lost games, yet it took until 28 minutes to surrender both of them. The surrender votes were stuck 3/2 everytime, yet no one except me was trying to win and everyone was being toxic and flaming me, it feels like I'm being held hostage.
: Well considering we haven't seen the other games you've played and those chat logs your hiding because lets be honest we know it takes more then one game and your only showing the least incriminating logs so I highly doubt this is all riot has to perma ban, stop attention whoring on boards you pleb
> [{quoted}](name=Ragnorok616,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0025,timestamp=2016-08-03T12:59:29.461+0000) > > Well considering we haven't seen the other games you've played and those chat logs your hiding because lets be honest we know it takes more then one game and your only showing the least incriminating logs so I highly doubt this is all riot has to perma ban, stop attention whoring on boards you pleb Please read the post before commenting. Check Edit 1. It will give you a link to the full chat logs.
Zhire (NA)
: From my point of view, most of the time you're just trying to communicate with your team. You're that type of player who will say everything in chat to ensure your team to do the best. Telling them to ward, when you're ganking, etc etc. Sure, you might've said a thing or two there but it wasn't anything horrendous. In my opinion, a chat restriction would be more appropriate. A ban is just too harsh.
> [{quoted}](name=Zhire,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=001e,timestamp=2016-08-03T12:15:46.443+0000) > > From my point of view, most of the time you're just trying to communicate with your team. You're that type of player who will say everything in chat to ensure your team to do the best. Telling them to ward, when you're ganking, etc etc. Sure, you might've said a thing or two there but it wasn't anything horrendous. In my opinion, a chat restriction would be more appropriate. A ban is just too harsh. Agreed, I am the primary voice of every game, but there is a lot to work on. Hopefully I am given a final chance to prove that I recognize my mistakes and will fix them immediately.
: Has anyone explained to you how the [punishment tiers](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Boqd81O0-upcoming-upgrades-to-chat-restrictions) work yet? When you say "I got permabanned for this" and only show this, it isn't entirely true; the permaban was the result of multiple prior punishments, and afterwards showing that you still continue to show negative behavior. This wasn't what got you permabanned, it was just the last straw in a long history of negative behavior. After a 14 day ban, regardless of what you're punished for it'll move up to a permaban. You also might have 2 more games of chat logs that would've been provided in your in-client reform card, since the email may contain only 1 due to size limitations (this is typical, but not always the case).
> [{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=001d,timestamp=2016-08-03T12:03:41.625+0000) > > Has anyone explained to you how the [punishment tiers](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Boqd81O0-upcoming-upgrades-to-chat-restrictions) work yet? When you say "I got permabanned for this" and only show this, it isn't entirely true; the permaban was the result of multiple prior punishments, and afterwards showing that you still continue to show negative behavior. This wasn't what got you permabanned, it was just the last straw in a long history of negative behavior. After a 14 day ban, regardless of what you're punished for it'll move up to a permaban. > > You also might have 2 more games of chat logs that would've been provided in your in-client reform card, since the email may contain only 1 due to size limitations (this is typical, but not always the case). I know how they work, and this is what got me perma'd. This kind of behavior. I was less toxic after each report, I didn't think this extremely mild reactionary flame would result in me losing my account. It just seemed ridiculous, and it is ridiculous, to the agreement of 77% of this forum. The rest of the chat logs are linked at the top of my post.
: according to these chat logs think perma ban is too harsh BUT You definitely need rank restrictions. People are not suppose to play Ranked to spam surrender and "no point keep playing". For instance I saw there was no point continue playing my ranked game so i decided "fuck this game i am gonna splitpush so I wont stop them ending it". It turned out enemies started losing teamfights and we won the game. Seems i got enemy attention there and they lost focus on winning the game :D
> [{quoted}](name=SlashStriker,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=001a,timestamp=2016-08-03T11:50:08.172+0000) > > according to these chat logs think perma ban is too harsh BUT > You definitely need rank restrictions. People are not suppose to play Ranked to spam surrender and "no point keep playing". > For instance I saw there was no point continue playing my ranked game so i decided "fuck this game i am gonna splitpush so I wont stop them ending it". It turned out enemies started losing teamfights and we won the game. Seems i got enemy attention there and they lost focus on winning the game :D There is nothing wrong with saying "ff" or "surrender". It is a feature intended to be used to not waste time in a game. In the examples above, I chose to call for a surrender when I knew the game was over; two of those games had an afk at that time. I did spam "ff" in game 3, but again, we had an afk and the game was completely over. I agree I should not have been spamming "we lose" though. The state of the game was completely screwed up and I was angry.
hotarse (NA)
: I will say something to you that you need to know. Once you're in their sights they derive pleasure from finding ways to hurt you. You may have been targeted like Renegades were. You must've pissed someone off and they put you in games with the worst players just waiting for a chance to permaban you. This happened to me, but I wound up playing so little I think they moved on. For the longest time I couldn't climb past Silver I. I stopped playing regularly, and I play very little now and I'm not getting any better. Yet somehow I got to gold this season... They stopped targeting/bullying me. Also, I tried to get banned once. I trolled hardcore for 10-15 games. I went as far as my conscious allowed me to, including feeding on purpose. I didn't get a single punishment. I did get three automated warnings, but that's it. I actually wanted to get banned after my placements went sideways and I got placed in bronze IV. But while I was trolling I was still winning... so i rolled with it and now I'm gold. May I recommend rocket league for you? That's one fun game. It doesnt scratch all the same itches, but it does scratch others without being as obnoxious as league of legends.
> [{quoted}](name=hotarse,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2016-08-03T11:36:42.453+0000) > > I will say something to you that you need to know. Once you're in their sights they derive pleasure from finding ways to hurt you. You may have been targeted like Renegades were. You must've pissed someone off and they put you in games with the worst players just waiting for a chance to permaban you. > This happened to me, but I wound up playing so little I think they moved on. For the longest time I couldn't climb past Silver I. I stopped playing regularly, and I play very little now and I'm not getting any better. Yet somehow I got to gold this season... They stopped targeting/bullying me. > > Also, I tried to get banned once. I trolled hardcore for 10-15 games. I went as far as my conscious allowed me to, including feeding on purpose. > I didn't get a single punishment. I did get three automated warnings, but that's it. I actually wanted to get banned after my placements went sideways and I got placed in bronze IV. But while I was trolling I was still winning... so i rolled with it and now I'm gold. > > May I recommend rocket league for you? That's one fun game. It doesnt scratch all the same itches, but it does scratch others without being as obnoxious as league of legends. This comment was a rollercoaster I didn't sign up to ride.... Are you saying Riot is targetting me through matchmaking by placing me with bad players so they can perma ban me for being toxic? Rofl.
: > [{quoted}](name=Apulmadikout,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2016-08-03T09:26:06.172+0000) > > When calls are ignored time and time again in a relatively high elo ranked game, there is reason to be upset. It's so incredibly frustrating when my teammates immediately ff at 20 with a late game composition, or when they afk and mentally check out before the game is even close to determined. It's apparent in people's decision making and macro play when they are tilted and/or mentally checked out of the game. > > I believe that only game 2, given the context of the chat, is over the top and toxic to the team, but when put in context of the way the game is playing out, it's rather obvious why the chat escalated to that level. I chose to put my cards in that of my top/mid/ad carries and take on the role of tank/cc jungler. After a successful early and mid game, my solo laners made the choice to completely ignore the game plan and make the same mistakes over and over again. They became tilted, toxic, and unfocused. The game was over before it even began for our composition, because my teammates didn't have the mental fortitude to rally behind their shotcaller and push it to a win. > > There is simply no excuse for weak mindedness in ranked. I realize I shouldn't include the you suck messages and such, but when players agree to a game plan and do the exact opposite 15 seconds later, they're trolling. That being said, this is why we need an option to disable chat. There is simply no reason why a player like me should be permanently removed from the game over this kind of chat, while afks go unnoticed and unpunished. When did your team make you the coach? Was it during champion select?
> [{quoted}](name=EvilDustMan,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3BP5Y1pp,comment-id=000e00000001,timestamp=2016-08-03T09:38:53.454+0000) > > When did your team make you the coach? Was it during champion select? They entered a ranked game, thus they should be trying their hardest to win the game. Most players do not bother actively communicating, they do whatever they want to do and hope it all works out. I prefer to win easy games, so I make calls, and I expect people to follow those calls, communicate an alternative, or at the very minimum communicate "no". You can't enter a ranked game in mid diamond and expect to zone out to a win. If you aren't doing everything you are capable of doing to win, you're a detriment to the team. If else wants to step up, I am going to fill that role.
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Apulmadikout

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