: > [{quoted}](name=Arakadia,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IEO7Bmuz,comment-id=000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-05-21T01:23:55.215+0000) > > Yes I know but a skin line Thunderlord Darius does work. "They have to be a demigod because the previous two in a super undeveloped skinline were" is dumb and limits creative freedom for no _good_ reason. Except this is what Riot wants, not what you think works.
That does not match with anything I've read from Riot but okay.
Sukishoo (NA)
: Skins still have to follow a certain criteria when being chosen. Most of which follow a champions basic theme; such as does it fit with the weapon, skills, physical appearance? Does it have something that would work in their animations? Do they truly fit the theme that Riot is currently working on? There is a lot of thought that has to go into the process of finalizing a skin. Riot has explained some of these things in their Dev blogs and other posts.
Yes I know but a skin line Thunderlord Darius does work. "They have to be a demigod because the previous two in a super undeveloped skinline were" is dumb and limits creative freedom for no _good_ reason.
: > [{quoted}](name=Bultz,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IEO7Bmuz,comment-id=0000000000000002,timestamp=2019-05-20T04:08:46.803+0000) > > no.they dont. thats the point of the skin. not to be the theme. duh fuq,. Yeah, skins are for alternate universes - universes that are still true to the champion's character. Something like Pool Party isn't anything more than a witty summer theme that most champions can get. Vayne is still inquisitive and uptight in Project, because that character fits the dystopian theme. Ezreal is still a cringe-inducing whining twink in Battle Academia, because that character fits the stereotypical anime theme. You won't find Urgot in Immortal Journey. You won't find Kha'Zix in Omega Squad. You won't find Ivern in High Noon. I don't know why this is difficult for people to understand.
> You won't find Urgot in Immortal Journey. You won't find Kha'Zix in Omega Squad. You won't find Ivern in High Noon. These are very unfitting champions for their skin lines. This is a strawman really. Darius in Thunderlord? Not at all unfitting. > I don't know why this is difficult for people to understand. Perhaps because you are not convincing.
: > [{quoted}](name=Arakadia,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IEO7Bmuz,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-20T21:51:33.043+0000) > > Except this isn't what Riot does or believes and they will make whatever skin they want whilst disregarding your arbitrary set of rules. You're more than welcome to check Riot's dev posts for skins. You're clearly here just to argue.
I know how their skin dev works. I have no idea what makes you think Darius wouldn't be allowed a Thunderlord skin. The previous two champions to get a skin from that line are demigods, but that isn't sufficient to argue that a human couldn't get that skin. Darius at the very least could totally have a great Thunderlord skin. It would work with his theme and his particles.
: > [{quoted}](name=Arakadia,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IEO7Bmuz,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-19T17:38:57.007+0000) > > Skins are _supposed _ to break canon lore and theme. You should not be restricting creative freedom for such arbitrary dumb rules. Riot's decision, not mine.
Except this isn't what Riot does or believes and they will make whatever skin they want whilst disregarding your arbitrary set of rules.
: Changes for the sake of change...not a good enough reason?
Her old visuals were lower quality due to being old. Like she looked like a walking tent and her wings were just waxy and shedding. So most certainly she needed updated visuals, but did she need an updated design? I think so, yes. She was too much of generic fallen angel with nothing interesting about her design or to tie her into the world. New Morgana plays into the seraph theme but she also binds her wings with chains which is pretty unique. Furthermore she has a lot more tie into Targon in her art and by extension Demacia too. There's a lot to her new design that makes it generally a better design, but I still think they could have pushed her further. Her lore explains how she rejects divinity and wants to embrace humanity. Regalia and royalty are associated with divinity and both concepts are "above" the common man and mortals. It honestly would make more sense for Morgana to wear more commoner clothing and show just how much she rejects the magical and moral superiority Kayle embraces. One way you could also tie her more to human desires and humanity would be to make her a bit heavier as divinity is usually represented through beauty. Either way, commoner clothes and less super idealistic generic sexy chick would help differentiate her from Kayle more even though they are twins simply because she is supposed to contrast in appearence and beliefs.
: > [{quoted}](name=Drakath2002,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3u6ohxgZ,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-19T04:35:46.935+0000) > > {{champion:136}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:112}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:26}} all male characters, and not jacked and showing it, and a decent amount of them arent good looking, what double standard? Zac is pretty jacked. Urgot has some meaty definition on his one biep
Zac is a jellow man. Urgot having one bicep maybe is muscular but not sexualized at all.
: Is it gratuitous sexuality, sure. Are the male characters super jacked, good looking and have killer abs often showing. Yes. Does anyone whine? No. Double standard.
There are only a handful of male champions who show their abs. The vast majority of males are not overly sexualized and not nearly to the extent of most females. Its inaccurate to say "the male characters" which refers to most males.
: I've been a Morgana OTP since season 1. Morgana is the only reason I play League. I was pretty disappointed with the visual update. To me this is how Morgana should have looked after her update: https://i.redd.it/5dh706wgq5h21.jpg Although, that's obviously her exiled skin not the base skin. I feel like Morgana has always had very unique eyebrows. They made her look strong/confident. The new Morgana feels like an overly emotional teenage girl. Oh well. This will probably get downvoted.
That because new Morgana is a rebellious defiant person who wants to feel human. Dressing regal and fancy is not really fitting for someone who wants to walk among the common man.
: > [{quoted}](name=Bultz,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IEO7Bmuz,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-18T16:00:28.669+0000) > > it's a skin, no requirements needed bruh. Ornn recieved it because he has a hammer like thor. > > but if you need a reason, Yasuo can get one because of susano, which is a shinto god of storms, who is a samurai. > Darius' axe looks like stormbreaker > A chinsese dragon is in mythology associated with storms > Kayn just needs more skin. > > Ta da. Skins have to meet certain requirements, including fitting the champion's theme. Being a "thunder lord" fits none of the champions you mentioned. Try "Shockblade" like Zed - but other than that, no.
Skins are _supposed _ to break canon lore and theme. You should not be restricting creative freedom for such arbitrary dumb rules.
: > [{quoted}](name=Arakadia,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=oerPg5r7,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-17T20:03:29.668+0000) > > There's actually a lot of new Volibear lore that is developed. It's not just some foundational base, we've learned quite a bit for him not even having his VGU yet. He has been developed far beyond just lightning bear god. > "Learned quite a bit?" In what sense? We didn't even see him in Ashe's comic, and everything else about his is as vague as it gets. We don't have any solid descriptors of him aside from him being called "Thousand-Pierced" and a bear, and even then, nothing else. Everything else we know, that he travels via thunderclouds, isn't a dramatic thematic deviation from what he currently is. Hell, everyone calls Ornn a ram like that's immediately apparent and the best descriptor for him, when in reality he's a dwarf with a smushed nose and large horns. So no, we don't have quality information on Volibear. And the information we do have is core to his character of being a thunder bear (who was retroactively made a demigod sibling of Ornn), none of which is dependent on his appearances. > Additionally Corki will remain a yordle flying a machine with a gun attatched. Just like Volibear will remain a bear god. That is quite obvious and he could totally get lore. At the very least they could place him somewhere like with old Evelyn's short story or K/M being in Demacia before their reworks or Fiddlestick's current short story. > He probably will, but that type of machine is going to be certainly up for debate. His machine _is quite important to describing him and his accomplishments as a Yordle captain_, so unless they have some kind of concept of what they're going to do with him, they can't really incorporate him into the lore at this point in time. Sure, he could get a blurb story like Evelynn or Fiddlesticks got, but that still wouldn't allow him to be fully incorporated into Yordle lore until a VGU. > Ziggs and Heimer are proof that yordle should don't need to match Bandle City aesthetic. Even Tristana's cannon is somewhat odd for Bandle City. They could 100% update him into Piltover or Zaun. They did it with Volibear and Nocturne, they could most certainly do it with Corki. Ziggs and Heimerdinger live in Zaun and Piltover respectively. We witnessed this in Jinx's comic, where Ziggs and Heimerdinger had a shop in Piltover. Therefore, they don't really need to fit the Bandle City aesthetic since they're not exclusively associated with the city. And if they DID update Corki into Piltover or Zaun, it would mean that there are going to be fewer and fewer Yordles who are actually attached to Bandle City. Corki has been associated with Bandle City pretty much exclusively, so he would need to have his technology reflect that much more than Ziggs in Zaun or Heimer in Piltover. As for Tristana, and even Teemo if his lore is still relevant, Bandle City does have a military to protect it, so it still remains to be seen what kind of guns they use. Considering that in the Doodad story Tristana's gun appeared to mostly bludgeon people with the cannonballs more so than actively try to kill them like normal guns, I'd say it's not as odd as you think it is, since it's not really terribly lethal.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=oerPg5r7,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-17T20:30:28.059+0000) > > "Learned quite a bit?" In what sense? We didn't even see him in Ashe's comic, and everything else about his is as vague as it gets. We don't have any solid descriptors of him aside from him being called "Thousand-Pierced" and a bear, and even then, nothing else. Everything else we know, that he travels via thunderclouds, isn't a dramatic thematic deviation from what he currently is. Hell, everyone calls Ornn a ram like that's immediately apparent and the best descriptor for him, when in reality he's a dwarf with a smushed nose and large horns. So no, we don't have quality information on Volibear. And the information we do have is core to his character of being a thunder bear (who was retroactively made a demigod sibling of Ornn), none of which is dependent on his appearances. I wouldn't consider knowledge about his motives, beliefs, place in the world, how he is viewed by civilization, how he is viewed by related champions (Udyr and Sejuani), his current potential power and a glimpse of his future potential power, a _very_ descriptive list, a radical change in thematic, and a very specific visual. You cannot accurately say Volibear in Silence of the Damned is still just a "thunder bear" whom we know so little about. Perhaps you are just not up to date on Volibear lore, a lot of it has been explained outside of official text. Ancient eldritch bear monster with 12 eyes and lightning power who corrupts the hearts of man with nature's savagery and brutality due to his hatred for civilization is a lot more specific than just "thunder bear". > He probably will, but that type of machine is going to be certainly up for debate. His machine _is quite important to describing him and his accomplishments as a Yordle captain_, so unless they have some kind of concept of what they're going to do with him, they can't really incorporate him into the lore at this point in time. Sure, he could get a blurb story like Evelynn or Fiddlesticks got, but that still wouldn't allow him to be fully incorporated into Yordle lore until a VGU. Unlike the extremely detailed description of Volibear, Corki's machine does not need to be described so in depth. In fact I disagree that you would need it in a story to tell anything significant about him. At the very least you can give him a new bio with a vague description of what he pilots and then update it later when he is VGU'd. > Ziggs and Heimerdinger live in Zaun and Piltover respectively. We witnessed this in Jinx's comic, where Ziggs and Heimerdinger had a shop in Piltover. Therefore, they don't really need to fit the Bandle City aesthetic since they're not exclusively associated with the city. And if they DID update Corki into Piltover or Zaun, it would mean that there are going to be fewer and fewer Yordles who are actually attached to Bandle City. Corki has been associated with Bandle City pretty much exclusively, so he would need to have his technology reflect that much more than Ziggs in Zaun or Heimer in Piltover. As for Tristana, and even Teemo if his lore is still relevant, Bandle City does have a military to protect it, so it still remains to be seen what kind of guns they use. Considering that in the Doodad story Tristana's gun appeared to mostly bludgeon people with the cannonballs more so than actively try to kill them like normal guns, I'd say it's not as odd as you think it is, since it's not really terribly lethal. Your right to say that he has been a Bandle City character for pretty much ever, but I think its incorrect to assume he has to stay there. Champions have their region and relations changed majorly all the time. Kayle and Morgana went from alien angels to Demacian-Targon demi-Aspects. Karthus used to live in a swamp. Evelynn was a Shadow Isles character. Janna was a talented human girl in Zaun but they realized that didn't fit her as well as something else could have, just like Bandle City might not be the best or only place for Corki in the lore. I'm still not convinced that we need an artist direction for his mech before he can get a bio update. If Bandle City absolutely cannot afford to lose another yordle and he cannot be a part of Piltover, then perhaps it will be an artistic challenge to bring his machine into modern art standards. However he is not his mech and I don't think that justifies leaving him to rot for what will probably be a few more years.
: I'm right, again. Suck it, haters!
What an ego. Why is this getting upvoted? We don't need to see this. If he needs to be validated by making this post thats w/e but don't push it to hot on gameplay.
: Visuals DO. Volibear is still going to be a bear of some sort even after he gets a VGU, that is not changing, and that's really one of the few hard pieces of information about Volibear that we've gotten in the Freljord lore, outside of legends and whispers here and there. They can continue to write him in the lore because there are core elements that will remain the same no matter what. Corki, meanwhile, is up in the air. His visuals no longer fit within the realm of what we've been told of Bandle City, and his "ROFL Copter" is an utter joke of an invention. It's hard to say even HOW he's going to be updated because of the sharp contrast between what he currently is and what they're building for Bandle City. There are no core elements of Corki that are set in stone like Volibear's bear qualities, so that's why he's in a much different situation. His visuals are very much part of why he's been left out of the lore because he's rusty nail poking up that doesn't fit in anymore.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=oerPg5r7,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-17T19:27:12.297+0000) > > Visuals DO. Volibear is still going to be a bear of some sort even after he gets a VGU, that is not changing, and that's really one of the few hard pieces of information about Volibear that we've gotten in the Freljord lore, outside of legends and whispers here and there. They can continue to write him in the lore because there are core elements that will remain the same no matter what. There's actually a lot of new Volibear lore that is developed. It's not just some foundational base, we've learned quite a bit for him not even having his VGU yet. He has been developed far beyond just lightning bear god. Additionally Corki will remain a yordle flying a machine with a gun attatched. Just like Volibear will remain a bear god. That is quite obvious and he could totally get lore. At the very least they could place him somewhere like with old Evelyn's short story or K/M being in Demacia before their reworks or Fiddlestick's current short story. > > Corki, meanwhile, is up in the air. His visuals no longer fit within the realm of what we've been told of Bandle City, and his "ROFL Copter" is an utter joke of an invention. It's hard to say even HOW he's going to be updated because of the sharp contrast between what he currently is and what they're building for Bandle City. There are no core elements of Corki that are set in stone like Volibear's bear qualities, so that's why he's in a much different situation. His visuals are very much part of why he's been left out of the lore because he's rusty nail poking up that doesn't fit in anymore. Ziggs and Heimer are proof that yordle should don't need to match Bandle City aesthetic. Even Tristana's cannon is somewhat odd for Bandle City. They could 100% update him into Piltover or Zaun. They did it with Volibear and Nocturne, they could most certainly do it with Corki.
: That's because he's fugly and needs to be VGU'd before he can be developed into the new lore.
Visuals do not play into lore updates, see Volibear.
: i dont get how yas can windwall some things for example nami's ult or rumbles given one is a huge tidelwave and the other falls from the sky :|
Because they are projectiles and you shouldn't balance around realism.
: > [{quoted}](name=Esdese,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ucyx341A,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-05-17T10:06:11.993+0000) > > I recall hearing a Rioter literally asking everyone why people want death recap at all. This is how far their ideology has gone to. Lmfao "Why do people want things that make the game more playable? I just need to work on the next skin line!"
Except the people who work on skins have nothing to do with deathrecap. Good luck if your going to have artists and skin production people trying to code a major system for the game.
: So one question for an event
The correct question does not include "when" as nothing is certain. The only reason there would be a rune wars event is if Riot had a reason to explore that lore. Unless a giant lore release or new champion come out related to the rune wars, and even then it is unlikely we would get a lore related gameplay mode, it is most likely not going to happen.
: Cause the eyes are the least realistic thing about a talking cat riding a magical book...
OP is not criticizing the realism of the eyes, rather the disturbing appearance of them. They also commented that it was unrealistic, but that was not their primary reason for the edit and suggestion.
Kazekiba (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Reav3,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WEvzsH58,comment-id=000c00000002,timestamp=2019-05-16T00:10:37.363+0000) > > We want to make sure the blog gets room and attention in the Client, which will be hard during MSI with all the MSI content going into the client during this time. We also have to get the data back from all the regions, see who won, write a blog about it, do feedback and iteration on the blog and then localize it for all regions. I'm hoping we can also maybe get a little more detail into our goals for the winning Champion and maybe even a little early concept art if possible, though it might be tight Early explorations of concept art might be super cool! Like I know Taliyah started as a potential fire mage amongst other options before "Rock Mage" was settled on? I remember concept art of this, and thats pretty much what I'd expect. Can you say about how many VGUs might be in line prior to this one? Just Pantheon's or potentially others?
I remember hearing, although the validity of this is not certain, and it would make sense that there is one more after Pantheon. Mordekaiser is this month IIRC, new champion in June, which means Pantheon would be the only rework in the second half of the year if he is the last.
Prozzak (NA)
: Automated system or not, adding together votes is not some multi day thing. I don't care that it takes while but saying adding together votes takes times is ludicrous. It'll take like 30 minutes tops. Making a reveal post, getting it edited and then approved? That is what takes time.
I agree with that. I suspect its a lack of priority and also a demand for other things with more priority deadlines.
The Iceborn (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Arakadia,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=NAYTUgls,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-15T22:34:34.325+0000) > > Additionally Volibear probably has a somwhat solid direction for a VGU given he is a votable candidate and his short story, but they would not create a teaser like this for him until much later on. That is true.. I have a feeling this is gonna be some major lore story.. I guess we will see..
I agree and its exciting! Given it being true ice and something strange under ground, I'm hoping/suspecting it will be Watcher and by extension Lissandra related.
: I'm really unsatisfied with this Yordles lore update
Corki has no place in the game or the lore :(
The Iceborn (EUNE)
: I think this is some new lore and not in any connection to Volibear.. I just can't see him connected to True Ice in any way. Im excited.
Additionally Volibear probably has a somwhat solid direction for a VGU given he is a votable candidate and his short story, but they would not create a teaser like this for him until much later on.
Esdese (EUW)
: LOL? A simple pre-automated system could do that by itself (except for the reveal post), but whatever, just a question of conditionals.
A pre automated system is not worth coding just for this one community vote. Sure we've voted on a two skins in the past but its never been certain that Riot plans to do votes consistently. Its always been a "we don't intend to do this again but it might happen" so there hasn't been a good reason to set up a system in the first place.
: Here is your vgu my good sir https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1NPPOuLMjs0/maxresdefault.jpg
: It’s not. The hair is covering a portion
Considering that and the fact that some clothing or neck peice means her neck is even thinner than it looks, her neck is still messed up. Either it's way too thin or too much of its mass is far back and hidden by her hair.
Kazekiba (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=zounet,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Wk6PdTvJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-11T10:41:50.438+0000) > > in French, it's "the guardian of the book"(la gardienne du grimoire) and I like it > I agree that "the magic cat "is not very original tbf, Grimoire has different connotations than just "Book"; specifically, a book of spells and alchemy recipes. The Grimoire's Guardian would be a STELLAR title too. **A**nd **a**dded **a**lliterative **a**ppeal! **A**sking if I m**ay **
: Yikes
Why is this yikes when League is filled with titty chicks, not that titty chicks are inherently bad?
: thank god this will never happen{{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
: It's a vicious circle that Riot is not intending to end because they feed on making a bunch of champions so popular they can litterally sell pajama skins for them. Also, momster champions rarely or simply never come out in "long" animation videos nor they get Lore entries as much as Lux/Ezreal/Ionia/Bilgewater.
: finally, someone with tastes.
: I don't think you're wrong to think that, there's a time and a place for monsters like every other thematic out there. There are people who really like them, some real die hard mains for like ASol, but I don't think monsters will ever truly have a broad appeal, but that doesn't mean Riot or any other company should stop making them
: I don't know how others feel about this, but I noticed that others want more male enchanters, with which I agree, since they're little to no (I think it's only taric). So I personally would like more female monsters, because we also only have two real female monsters(Anivia and Rek'Sai), although you can tell when you play anivia that she is female, cause of her voice and also of her name kinda, but when you play Rek'Sai there is literally no indication that this champion is female whatsoever... And that's really what I like, cause in real life you also have a harder time differentiating female animals form males, cause they look pretty similar and the only creatures where we can immediately tell which gender it is, is basically only us humans and some other few exceptions (Like peacocks for example)
I too would be interested in seeing Riot break gender stereotypes with future champions. It does feel a lot like if a champion is supportive or bubbly/cheery they are defaulted to female and if they are cruel or ugly they are defaulted to male.
: rek guy is a monster champ and is popular
Only recently she is. But this proves my point further. Give a monster solid, polished gameplay with modern art and people _will_ be a lot more interested in them.
: Eric Andre :)
I literally said Andre out loud, I had brain to finger miscommunication.
: I like playing {{champion:34}} first champ i ever played back when i started in season 4, however the over abundant of mobility has pretty much rendered her kit almost useless. I still play her but oh boi do I have to play her perfectly or I get fucked, when other mages like ekko neeko zoe ect have more powerful, reliable and forgiving kits. She gets 0 love in cinematic or lore she somewhat gets 1 good skin a year with a very outdated legendary.
So much missed potential! Imagine how cool she would be in a cinematic!
: I can't really related to the idea behind this thread since some of my favorite champs are monsters. Kha'zix, Vel'koz, Elise, Teemo. I'm all about the monsters.
I love them too! My point is that Riot acts as if they are unpopular simply due to being unrelatable. Which is not completely true, thus the point of this thread.
: Monsters by nature have to be less technical. Otherwise it isn't thematically fitting. You couldn't have a giant chimera flip around like Akali. It just wouldn't feel right. From a visual standpoint, a monster is basically limited to roaring, swiping with claws, biting, tackling, etc. Things an animal would do. Projectiles have to either be nonexistent or only one part of the kit, and can only be straightforward. It's already a stretch for Rek'sai, Skarner, and Kha'zix to have projectiles at all. Rek'sai's being the one that makes the least sense, since the visual has it traveling underground. So then comes mechanical design that arises from that. Attacks that are limited visually to animal actions must similarly be limited in their function. A circular or crescent swipe, a targeted bite, a straight-line leap or dash, etc. So the simplistic designs are more often constricted to being AA-based or otherwise with melee-range abilities. And what happens to champions like that? They only see the spotlight when their kit lines up perfectly with a patch's changes. We've seen it recently with Rek'sai and the new Conqueror. The change was absolutely perfect for her. So she shot up in popularity the past month or so. **** To break that mold would mean to make the character no longer a monster.
> Monsters by nature have to be less technical. Otherwise it isn't thematically fitting. You couldn't have a giant chimera flip around like Akali. It just wouldn't feel right. I don't see why you can't have a monster dash around like Akali. > From a visual standpoint, a monster is basically limited to roaring, swiping with claws, biting, tackling, etc. I disagree. Anivia does magic, Urgot shoots stuff, Kha'Zix launches Void spikes and Hecarim uses undead magic. > So then comes mechanical design that arises from that. Attacks that are limited visually to animal actions must similarly be limited in their function. A circular or crescent swipe, a targeted bite, a straight-line leap or dash, etc. So the simplistic designs are more often constricted to being AA-based or otherwise with melee-range abilities. There's no reason that monsters must be limited to this. > To break that mold would mean to make the character no longer a monster. Monster's can be a whole lot more than just animals. Besides, characters don't have to be binary: monster or not monster. Riot is most certainly able to and has broken that mold.
: >Most monster characters are old designs with outdated lore, gameplay, and art. Because they realized that when they created monster and human champs in the past, the old humans were more popular than the old moster champs, that's why they stopped to make monster champs. >Most monster characters don’t get skins. Which is a correlation of the start, if they would get money of monster skins in the first place they would have done more monster skins since the begining, they didn't do it because since the start they realized that they were not popular, and that's why later they dont get skins >Most monster characters don’t get attention in cinematics, art, promotional stuff, etc. Which is again caused for the same >Lots of monster characters aren’t stable gameplay wise (Skarner, Cho’Gath, Fiddlesticks Urgot) and forgotten about gameplay wise. What does "stable gameplay wise" even mean? I cant rebate this if I dont understand what you are saying >Many monster characters are just flat out worse than other options (Bard, Skarner, Rammus) Put examples of the other options or this point means nothing since your argument is half blank >Most monster characters have lore that is limited to run or fight to the death (Rek’Sai) or are simply plot devices (Anivia) or if they ever actually do anything significant in the lore an equally powerful foe would be necessary to nullify it and put them back at point 0 (Cho'Gath). >Monster characters in general do not receive attention in general such as in the comics like Academy, Olaf vs the World or w/e its called, and the new canon lore comics. Check out when are the comics being created, Riot relized that monster champs were not popular years ago and that's why they dont put them on comics and stuff now, it's not the other way: monster champs were unpopular since the begining because the playerbase generally doesn't like them, sorry if it's that hard to understand >If Miss Fortune was nerfed and bad for a patch too, you know she isn’t going to stay out of playability for very long at all meanwhile there are a plethora of trash champions who will stay there. Maybe because MF is a soloQ champ that almost never causes balance problems? Why would she even be nerfed in the first place, nerfs are not random things you know, champs are nerfed for a reason. The only time in which MF actually caused problems was when Lethality was actually good and she could be played on pro play with her E max build as a Supp on a counterpick, and just for that reason she got several nerfs to her E to the point that playing around that skill isn't viable. You are just saying non sense, you create an illogical situation in which MF gets gutted and say "booh they would buff her back soon" but you fail to understand that for her design she will never be needed to be gutted, and the champs thar are gutted are gutted 99% of the times for being so strong on pro play, not for lore or skins reasons. The scenario you present is just a fallacy itself The playerbase **dislikes** playing monster champions, Riot realized that years ago and for that reason they give monster champs less stuff: because they know that they would get less money. If giving attention to monster champions gave them money they would do it lmao.
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=saksRsxb,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-05-09T10:59:49.593+0000) > > Because they realized that when they created monster and human champs in the past, the old humans were more popular than the old moster champs, that's why they stopped to make monster champs. To make this claim I would like evidence to support it as it is actually pretty important. I know champions like Ezreal were very popular in the past but that is only one example. Hecarim and Kha'Zix are examples too of monsters who have been extremely popular. > > Which is a correlation of the start, if they would get money of monster skins in the first place they would have done more monster skins since the begining, they didn't do it because since the start they realized that they were not popular, and that's why later they dont get skins > Yes I know. And this mistake made monsters even more unpopular. > What does "stable gameplay wise" even mean? I cant rebate this if I dont understand what you are saying Kayn will always be a viable pick. He won't receive huge gameplay changes and he would get nerfed into unviability. Skarner has had 3 failed reworks and has remained a "troll" pick in many peoples eyes for years. Skarner's gameplay is unstable with only the occasional month or weeks of viability while Kayn's gameplay is stable. Does that clear it up for you? > > Put examples of the other options or this point means nothing since your argument is half blank Unless you _really_ need a roaming support there is very little reason to pick Bard over Lulu or Sona or some other enchanter. Rammus historically has been an unreliable pick especially when Malphite, Nautillus, or Maokai also exist as frequently superior options. > > Check out when are the comics being created, Riot relized that monster champs were not popular years ago and that's why they dont put them on comics and stuff now, it's not the other way: monster champs were unpopular since the begining because the playerbase generally doesn't like them, sorry if it's that hard to understand You might benefit from rereading my post as you've been confused by a few of my core points. Lets assume your right (which you have not supplied evidence for such a claim) that monsters were unpopular from the start. Under the assumption, we can still recognize that Riot made monsters _even more_ unpopular by neglecting characters who were already unpopular and failing to design appealing monsters as the game grew. Your argument that monsters are unpopular simply because they are unrelatable is lazy and ignores the fact that humanity adores monsters so much that they are seen throughout media in all of history. The situation is more complicated than "muh reliability" and there are more factors that you've ignored. > > Maybe because MF is a soloQ champ that almost never causes balance problems? Why would she even be nerfed in the first place, nerfs are not random things you know, champs are nerfed for a reason. Excellent job reading exactly what I wrote. You are bringing up the fact she is a stable and strong pick with modern gameplay like I literally didn't say that in the post. That was my point. Monster champions aren't well balanced and are often neglected gameplay wise. MF isn't. Its not just because MF is relatable, its also because she has modern gameplay and Riot maintains her gameplay. > > The only time in which MF actually caused problems was when Lethality was actually good and she could be played on pro play with her E max build as a Supp on a counterpick, and just for that reason she got several nerfs to her E to the point that playing around that skill isn't viable. > That's cool. This thread isn't about that though. > You are just saying non sense, you create an illogical situation in which MF gets gutted and say "booh they would buff her back soon" but you fail to understand that for her design she will never be needed to be gutted, and the champs thar are gutted are gutted 99% of the times for being so strong on pro play, not for lore or skins reasons. > I... never asked for her to be gutted? I'm not sure if your strawmaning me or just derailed your on thoughts. **One** of my points was that monster characters usually are balance problems with unstable gameplay, so of course a stable and strong pick like MF is going to be popular. > The playerbase **dislikes** playing monster champions, Riot realized that years ago and for that reason they give monster champs less stuff: because they know that they would get less money. Again no evidence to support this but it is likely that to some extent they were not as popular. That is more likely though because Riot had no idea how to design monsters so you get champions like Cho'Gath who was largely a rip off of a violator. > > If giving attention to monster champions gave them money they would do it lmao. Well of course? But Riot made monsters even more unpopular because they were neglected. And then they blamed it on monsters being unrelatable.
: Kit maybe, even the shine of a high tier skin wears off after a while, personally I do agree that it doesn't help most of the monstrous champs in League have a pretty niche playstyle i.e ASol and Skarner. But I feel as tho if you do give an incredibly fun to kit to a potentially low resonanting monster, you get stuck with people who really like a kit but hate the theme
Perhaps I am being too optimistic that monster designs can resonate with people and have likeable themes.
: This feels like an issue of what came first, the chicken or the egg? Are monsters unpopular and therefore don't get a lot of frequent spotlight or content, or are they not popular because they don't get a lot of spotlight or content? For me, it's really simple. It's the first. Why? Well, I want you to list me the number of stories, TV shows, Anime, literally any piece of Media you want, where the main leading character is a Monster. I know there's a few, but the few that exist are hugely outnumbered by the amount of Media where we have a human, or humanoid (Dwarf, Elf, human-relatable-looking character). And that's really it, you said it yourself, we empathize and relate most to humanoid characters. Keep down the same train of thought, you see where Monsters are typically left in the spectrum. They're the villains, the mysteries of the world, the surprising ally to the main group whose remarkable for 'overcoming their nature'. Why do you think when Authors want to make monsters more empathizable, we give them more Human-like Traits? When we start to characterize them as people, instead of Monsters, they tend to gain traits akin to a human, concepts like Family, Loyalty, Honor, things that aren't...well, Monstrous. If it makes you feel better, you can believe all you want that the only reason monsters aren't popular is because Riot doesn't give them any spotlight, but you're gonna be hard pressed to find the evidence to back it up. It's really easy to find an appeal in a human character, but it's a lot harder to find the appeal in a monster whose completely benign.
I am able to agree that monsters aren't entirely unpopular due to Riot. Thus I used the wording "largely to blame". I think there is, to some extent, an inherent disadvantage when it comes to popularity with monsters. However I disagree with your first point about protagonists in media being humans. This is because unless your animating characters, your only other option is pretty much a humanoid. People are much easier to use as characters because they don't require extensive costuming, technology, time, or animation. Certainly human-relatable-looking characters are use because of their broader appeal and reliability but for the vast majority of history you didn't have the option to have anything but a human as your protagonist. > Keep down the same train of thought, you see where Monsters are typically left in the spectrum. They're the villains, the mysteries of the world, the surprising ally to the main group whose remarkable for 'overcoming their nature'. Why do you think when Authors want to make monsters more empathizable, we give them more Human-like Traits? When we start to characterize them as people, instead of Monsters, they tend to gain traits akin to a human, concepts like Family, Loyalty, Honor, things that aren't...well, Monstrous. This is just the nature of creating inhuman things. Its not really an argument for why you cant have a monster with human traits in League. While they traditionally are often the villains, mysteries, or surprising ally, that doesn't mean that tradition cannot be broken. You totally could, and Riot chooses not to under the not entirely valid argument that they aren't relatable. > If it makes you feel better, you can believe all you want that the only reason monsters aren't popular is because Riot doesn't give them any spotlight, but you're gonna be hard pressed to find the evidence to back it up. Somehow I miscommunicated and people thought I was saying that it was the _only_ reason. Its not, but I think Riot's failure to give them a spotlight is a large contributor. Even if monsters were unpopular first in the Chicken and Egg scenario, they've been become increasingly forgotten and left out because Riot doesn't give them any sort of attention. So even if you are right, Riot has most certainly (imo) made the situation worse.
: > [{quoted}](name=Arakadia,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=saksRsxb,comment-id=000a000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-09T19:29:21.206+0000) > > No because Anivia flying and being an animalistic demigod is core to her and wouldn't make sense on a mage. Yuumi flies but only as a magical undertone to her theme. Anivias lore wouldn't work either if she was a human while Yuumi could have been a yordle or human apprentice with the same lore. ... she was literally just a cryophoenix before, the demi god thing is new. anivia's lore could work perfectly fine with her being human, she'd just be a humanoid demi god. hell her brother is humanoid. if what you say about anivia is true then being a cat is just as important to yuumi.
> if what you say about anivia is true then being a cat is just as important to yuumi. This is an illogical assumption. Anivia would less easily translate to a humanoid then Yummi by a large amount. Plus Yuumi talks like a bubbly young girl and gives a very human and intelligent impression compared to Anivia who is more withdrawn and not so easily identified as person-like.
: i know that dude in the screenshot i just cant remember him... the afro guy
: > [{quoted}](name=Arakadia,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=saksRsxb,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-05-09T16:58:19.189+0000) > > You could change Yuumi into a yordle or person and literally nothing in her design would change. She really didn't push very fair into the inhuman direction as a result of this, especially because her VO feels extremely human. > > My post however was not about a lack of new monster champions, but rather why Riot is partially at fault for their unpopularity. you could turn anivia into a human mage and her thematic wouldn't change. you define them as anything inhuman so yuumi counts, easily. monsters are just animals in a fantasy setting like league.
No because Anivia flying and being an animalistic demigod is core to her and wouldn't make sense on a mage. Yuumi flies but only as a magical undertone to her theme. Anivias lore wouldn't work either if she was a human while Yuumi could have been a yordle or human apprentice with the same lore.
: Kinda sucks to put actual effort into a comment and see downvotes with no one even attempting to respond. But whatever. Some people just like to whine when they're wrong
I didn't downvote your comment but I noticed you put in enough effort that I didn't feel it was appropriate to give you a short and crappy mobile response, so I was waiting till I get home to respond.
: Good thoughts, I completely I agree that its the former of your statement. I’d even argue if you gave a monstrous champ the most fun kit in the world and the most spectacular legendary skin, it would not do as well if you gave the exact same things to a human/humanoid, they wouldn’t even need to be sexy to still do marginally better
I do think however if you gave a monster character the most fun kit and a spectacular legendary they would be much more popular. While it may not be a primary cause there most certainly is connection between the lack of attention from Riot and the popularity of monsters.
: the popularity of a champion is based on if they are op or not, and how easy they are to abuse if they are op.
This is incorrect as there are champions who remain played even though they aren't OP or easily abused. I have a feeling you didn't bother to read the post.
: {{champion:72}} Crystalline Scorpion {{champion:33}} Armadillo {{champion:6}} Literally a human. Stop loosely using "monster" to describe non-human/humanoid creatures in league. Void Champions are the only ones you can properly label as a "monster".
If you read the post you would have known what I defined a monster character as. I am not defining them as unnatural creatures, I'm defining them as inhuman in shape, which Urgot most certainly is considering only one of his arms, his head, and upper torso are vaguely human. The six legs, machine gun arm, and giant mouth stomach change him enough to consider him a monster character. This isn't D&D, Skarner and Rammus are most certainly monster characters.
: Yumi was just released though. If anivia counts as a monster then so does yumi. But that's not what most of you want. Monster is honestly a vague term, and riot could release a monster champ that is popular. But it wouldn't be what you want most likely.
You could change Yuumi into a yordle or person and literally nothing in her design would change. She really didn't push very fair into the inhuman direction as a result of this, especially because her VO feels extremely human. My post however was not about a lack of new monster champions, but rather why Riot is partially at fault for their unpopularity.
: The new Volibear lore kinda made me want a Volibear full rework to go along with it, but since Riot publicaly stated that ~~they are now too lazy~~ they won't put major emphasis on reworks anymore, it just confirmed to me that they only half care about non-humanoid characters and only see them as the bastard cousins of e-girl, edgelords and weab champions
New Volibear lore is the only reason i care about his update because it was just that cool. Same here though, pretty disappointing.
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Arakadia

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