Rioter Comments
: Can't go into a lengthy reply atm cuz I suck at phone typing, but about saying"fuck you DTN" but not in an insulting or offensive manner; yes the system might think it's negative, but it's also not possible to get punished for that alone. The reason Riot doesn't remove punishments for something like that is because there would have to be a lot of legitimately negative behavior alongside it to trigger it.
phone typing is the worst man. but its just more or less, Im not appealing or reasoning about the ban, i just dont agree with the system in how they handle it, and this is my arguments about it. in the hopes that riot might not ban future players in the same manner. I personally dont play league enough to care, and ive gone through so many times where ive uninstalled for a period of 6= months. I just wish riot would take the feedback here so players who DO CARE (all the "i was permaed for no good reason!" people might have a shot at appealing, or not getting banned if the truly arent toxic as much as they say they arent
Chermorg (NA)
: I don't have any need to respond to the rest of it. You got a valid 14 day ban for using a homophobic slur, and I checked your history and find no record of you posting the chat logs from that punishment. That makes it seem like your excuses are all fake. Regardless, it's a slur and you should've known better. Next, I examined your chat logs and determined that they did indeed warrant a punishment. She to your recent valid 14 day ban, your next step was a permanent ban. You disagreeing with the system or ignorance of the rules does not mean the system is flawed nor that it's anyone else's fault.
and keep in mind, the only reason I WAS banned (as per riot customer support, when i appealed it) WAS for the slur. even though they stated i had not used it in any harmful orr toxic way, its no longer allowed, which is why i argued the fact that riot has always been about "say what you want just dont be a jerk about it" IN WHICH even slurs were ok (I even one time posted a thread on the forums in which a meme contained the N*gga" word, and was perma banned from the forums, but it got overturned because they realized I didnt use the word in any harmful or toxic manner.) so under my assumption I HAD ZERO CLUE that riot revamped the policy to "these words are now no longer allowed whatsoever" which is WHY I appealed it to say that, "ok I get the words arent allowed at all anymore, but I didnt need a 14 day ban to realize that, I couldve done with a warning so I was at least notified that the rule had changed, and certain words are now outright NOT allowed to be used anymore." which is why I find this system flawed, a rule changed that I had no idea about, i got a 14 ban for breaking a rule that isnt clearly stated anywhere (there is no blacklist of words anywhere, it just says no hate speech, so my defense could be then that i dont consider that hate speech, but maybe i consider the two letters "gg" to be hate speech so why arent those banned?) and because of that 14 day ban the very few times in a few games I was actually self admitted to being mildly toxic. (true toxic to me is using slurs and words to belittle people based on their sexuality race religion etc, or telling them to kill themselves) I am now at a perma ban, in a case where this at most would only warrant MAYBE a 25 game chat restriction
: Chat exists so that you can coordinate strategies with your team, not so that you can posture your philosophical beliefs to the world. You spent way too much time chatting about pointless things when you could instead have been playing or setting up strategies. _EDIT: This last bit was inflammatory, so I removed it._
ahh found it, hidden down here. I dont exactly have a reply for this other than: I dont believe riot as a company should be allowed to censor what is and isnt allowed to be said, provided that what is being said is said with no harmful connotation to any other players. if somebody goes on trying to preach about god, but doesnt belittle anyone? thats fine, but if they start saying non believers will burn.. well...
: Aight my mistake. Strange though that you've only responded to this comment and not the other one I made.
which other one? ive only seen this one? and thats fine, at least you admit that you realize where i am coming from now, What i dont like is when people continually try to justify that their illogical viewpoint is the truth and let my point fly right over their head
: dude, it's harassment, and it's not constructive towards the purpose of coordinating strategies and making plays with your team. It doesn't matter if the person you're talking about is utter trash and a toxic bonobo, under no circumstance is it okay to berate them repeatedly for mistakes and actions that were already over and done with. And you said to mute them, so you obviously know that you can mute them and ignore them. This makes the rest of what you said after that point about them completely pointless except for the purpose of harassing them further. You should have ignored them AND THEN STOPPED TALKING ABOUT THEM.
did you bother reading my post at all about context? I MUTED THEM AND IGNORED THEM AND THEIR POOR BEHAVIOR YES and if you read the context THE ENEMY TEAM ASKED WHAT CHANGED FOR US TO GO FROM WINNING TO LOSING. and youre telling me that me explaining to them, that all we did was mute/ignore WW and let him do his own thing, is considered toxic now? or when another team mate brings him back up (when he starts actually inting) I cant turn the negative into a positive lest it be considered toxic? TELL ME please, how reassuring my team by saying that hey, sure warwick is inting, but it could be worse guys, at least ww is playing, and not afk, and by him playing we can utilize him distracting the enemy and win teamfights as four! is toxic..?
: You can't negate the toxic behavior by saying some positive things afterwards. Telling your team that they suck is not a great way to start, and even though you were being positive to the rest of your team *you still continued to trash the Warwick*. I'm sure once you cool down and think about this you'll realize that punishing you for treating a teammate like that is legitimate regardless of how you act towards the others. I know you've been around here long enough to know how the punishment system works; did this really surprise you?
So let me get this straight, tell the truth about a player (a confirmed inter none the less) to your enemy team, as to whats going on, constitutes as trash a team member... that makes no sense IN NO WAY was i trashing him, or calling him out or anything I was simply trying to use the facts about his actions and turn them into a positive for the rest of my team who were dismayed that he was inting. our thresh nearly gave up, but when i explained to him that he wasnt worth gold (because after so many deaths, your gold value becomes less than a minions) and that at least WW was afk, and provides a distraction to the enemy for us to win, he decided to not give up and we won. and youre right this system has always been flawed but i didnt realize it panders to a confirmed inter/troll who was butthurt because a player was using his poor behavior as a means to motivate his team to push to victory
: You didn't quit the game, you were banned. Don't play victim.
actually I do "quit the game" I could easily just make a new account and keep playing and nobody would ever know. but im choosing not to.
: People who type this much in a single game deserve to be banned. Bye bye
so typing should be bannable? thats cute
: While we understand certain words may have meanings different from that in the US, when in Rome you do as the Romans do. If you'd like to discuss the legitimacy of your 14 day ban, which you think was unfair and how you got to this permaban so fast, I recommend you create a thread which includes the logs from that punishment so we can decide for ourselves how you are using that word. I know the reform card doesn't get emailed to your or continue popping up in the client after that punishment is over, so if you didn't save the logs you should ask for them in a [Support Ticket]( Continuing to debate how you used it doesn't mean much without us really knowing what was said.
I did make a thread, and i even contacted riot live chat support about it, and they told me "it doesnt matter what context the word was used in, we dont allow that word anymore" which is why this system is flawed, because PRIOR to that game, i was under the assumption that it was allowed as long as im not being a jerk with it. but the flaw in the system is that you have a ban that was probably an unjust way to tell me (a player) that those words are no longer allowed at all, and because of it i now have a perma ban. but I made a thread and sumbitted a support ticket because the chat was me laning against an enemy susan who dived me and i jokingly in a playful way said "aww susan dont be a f*agg*T :p" to which the susan replied with some witty banter, and nobody said anything or took any offense to the word, but we ended up losing the game and my team asked that i be reported for feeding (so i assume i was reported for feeding) and my chat logs were pretty mild, I obviously got annoyed that we were losing, but nothing in the chat logs aside from the F word were punishable, but because of the one word, it was escalated to a 14 day ban (mind you that the f word was at the start of the game and the only time i used that word in that game was that one time. which is also why its important to take it into context the TIME of when it was and wether or not it belongs as part of the whole reason why a player was reported.) this is also an issue with my second game here: clearly im mildly annoyed and slightly toxic that the teams jungler ww is bad/trolling in the first few parts of the chat, but the rest of the game I did what riot WANTS A PLAYER TO DO, I ignored him, didnt flame him, continually gave positive support to my team, and played with them telling them good job when they deserved it, etc. but in this system IM BEING PUNISHED FOR THE WHOLE GAMES chat logs. my problem with this system is there is no damn context. If i say "fuck you DTN" as line one then with line two i said" youre such a damn good top laner" then line three"im so jealous lol" so it looked like so Arcade Andrew:"fuck you DTN" Arcade Andrew:"You're such a damn good top laner" Arcade Andrew:"Im so jealous lol" but you reported me because I said "fuck you DTN" and i would be punished, because context was never taken into account that I DONT MEAN IT IN A HARMFUL WAY. now as opposed to this: heres my second issue with the 4 tiered system that escalates. I got a 14 day ban for the use of one word right? ok cool If i use words like that again im banned. HOWEVER I should not escalate to a perma ban over an unrelated offense. same thing if a feeder got a 14 day ban, then got perma banned for these logs. THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT REASONS FOR PUNISHMENT. I would understand a perma ban had i decided to use these words again (which I have learned my lesson and have not used them again, which wouldve been fine with a warning) BUT UP UNTIL THESE FEW GAMES I had not been reported by other players, nor had other players outrightly called me toxic or a jerk etc. Id get honors here and there etc. now that being said every person slips right? so these games i started to slip because i got ALOT of games in a row WITH A BAD TEAM. this is where riot should step in seeing it a brand new issue, and issue a warning "hey you should try to be nicer even when your teammates arent good/are trolls etc, or you might get a chat restriction or even a ban down the line." JUST like it should be with all offenses. each offense is different and it makes no sense to lets say for example: perma ban a feeder after a 14 day ban, because he was toxic in a few games, with no prior history of ever being toxic in the last year. same goes for this case: im being perma banned ONLY because of the flawed system that gave me a 14 day ban over a single use of one word.
Chermorg (NA)
: You want to legitimately tell me you used the term f*g to mean cigarette in an online video game?
I do it all the time in other games, and im never punished for it. A: because most people in games played around the world, dont take offense to that word and B: for those who do I dont use it in a manner to attack homosexuals. I was RAISED to understand the word "F*gg*t" was just slang for a cigarette. up until about junior year of highschool, that word never was an issue. yes it could be used as an insult, but never to call somebody gay like its a bad thing, we could call each other that because the insult was basically "youre a cancer causing smoke stick"
Chermorg (NA)
: > Arcade Andrew: we are making up for where this ww is lacking im proud Indirectly blaming Warwick for being bad. > Arcade Andrew: its cus we all muted ww and stopped paying attention to him > Arcade Andrew: and we work together better as 4 than tryna reason with him > Arcade Andrew: see ww is just trolling but if we ignore him we win > Arcade Andrew: no ww just mute him and let him troll > Arcade Andrew: then we report him Discussing punishments instead of playing the game. > Arcade Andrew: lets just focus on wiinning without him as if he were an afk > Arcade Andrew: which would be worse bc at least he is distracting them > Arcade Andrew: hes not worth gold so Continually discussing him and how bad he’s doing.
and how is is this toxic? toxic would be "wow this fucking POS WW deciding to feed even though we are winning, wow hey enemy pls report ww, im done im gunna afk farm now bc we cant win bc ww is feeding now" ALSO CONTEXT IS KEY ignoring the first one because, thats not toxic at all the second one: an enemy asked how we went from losing to winning, so i explained to him that, what i did was mute the troll, and work as a team rather than obsess over him even admitting to inting. which i can hardly see as toxic. and the third: one of my teammates was getting distraught because this was around when WW started truly running down mid lane and died on purpose, so i was reassuring my team mate that we can still win, because we have to look at the positive of the situation, that at least ww wasnt afk, and provided a presence for us to utilize to try and win with.
Chermorg (NA)
: You didn’t try to help him learn. You flamed him to try and make him feel bad. Or to make yourself feel better. Helping is "hey, I noticed you’re you’re using x combo, it works better to do y instead". Not flaming. There is a small grey area. You’re either negative or you’re not generally. There is **very** few cases that are up to interpretation, and yours is **well** past that line. You directed intense and continual flaming at specific people. There is no context needed. You are expected by Riot to have the self control to not respond to negativity with negativity. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
care to comment on the rest you know the majority of my post, in which i showed a game im being punished for in which i was positive? because its like you saw one part and now cant argue the whole
Chermorg (NA)
: Name one culture it is acceptable to say the racial slur beginning with n or the homophobic slur beginning with f? Those words are always offensive. There is no acceptable use for those words. Curse words are used for emphasis. Slurs are used as insults or to offend.
lets see, travel to Columbia/Brazil/the middle east, hell any country where its against the law to even be homosexual there and punishable by death. their culture they dont care. lets also see here: there are other connotations of the word f*ggot, and other meanings which I always can argue are what i mean when i say them (which is true, Ive never used that word to describe a homosexual, I use the word, homo or gay...) the real meaning of the word is a cigar/cigarette/the butt end of a cigarette. so many UK cultures will still say "can I buy a F*g?" or "can i bum a f*g?" if they see you smoking. yet america is THE ONLY country where that word is so touchy that people will flip out over seeing it. same with the N word (which i didnt use but im going to explain for some context) black people will call themselves the n word CONSTANTLY even in america. the n word also literally JUST MEANS BLACK because its derived from the Spanish word for black "negro" and slowly over time the spelling has changed but the connotation the same, its literally just calling somebody black, but for some reason people getting offended over being called black, like its some horrible thing?
: What was said WAS directed to be mean at someone and was harassment plus you don't just get permabanned randomly with no punishment before hand. You had a 14 day ban prior to this AND chat bans before that as well. You knew things you were saying were toxic and not allowed but you still continued. Whether you were reported for feeding, which isn't acceptable anyways, or you were reported for verbal abuse (which you were doing), you got caught and you were punished.
I didnt have any chat bans before this: I got escalated to a 14 day ban over one word, which is why this is now a perma ban. but clearly you didnt read.
: There have been no changes to the rules. You were punished because you were constantly berating your own team, calling them stupid etc.
Arcade Andrew: gj Arcade Andrew: boom gj guys Arcade Andrew: two turrets Arcade Andrew: gj guy Arcade Andrew: guys Arcade Andrew: lol woops Arcade Andrew: for a second i forgot cho wasnt on our team Arcade Andrew: gj so far guys Arcade Andrew: we are making up for where this ww is lacking im proud Arcade Andrew: gj job! Arcade Andrew: gj trist Arcade Andrew: and thresh Arcade Andrew: and rek Arcade Andrew: its cus we all muted ww and stopped paying attention to him Arcade Andrew: and we work together better as 4 than tryna reason with him Arcade Andrew: see ww is just trolling but if we ignore him we win Arcade Andrew: no ww just mute him and let him troll Arcade Andrew: then we report him Arcade Andrew: weve been winning without him anyways Arcade Andrew: its ok thresh Arcade Andrew: you doing good bb Arcade Andrew: GOOD HOOK Arcade Andrew: my quad :p lol Arcade Andrew: got stolen Arcade Andrew: rek guy Arcade Andrew: dw about ww Arcade Andrew: just mute him and report him after Arcade Andrew: we are doing fine without him Arcade Andrew: you trist thresh and i Arcade Andrew: are godlike Arcade Andrew: lets just focus on wiinning without him as if he were an afk Arcade Andrew: which would be worse bc at least he is distracting them Arcade Andrew: hes not worth gold so Arcade Andrew: see Arcade Andrew: we got this :D Arcade Andrew: gj team :D Arcade Andrew: ggwp this is the majority of the second game i was punished for just in case you didnt bother reading it. keep in mind I know that the other two games were mildly toxic. but riot included a game where i was positive in a reform card for being toxic... and again NOT SAYING I WASNT TOXIC Im saying the system is flawed when I get a perma ban over these three games (in which sure warrant a chat restriction) but because of A SINGLE WORD USED IN A NON HARMFUL OR NON TOXIC CONTEXT that got me 14 day banned, I was perma banned for being toxic over games that would normally get me chat restricted. Thats my problem with the system.
Chermorg (NA)
: There are certain words that are **never** acceptable, in any social context in society. These include racial, homophobic, and other slurs, as well as encouraging someone to harm themselves. You can say whatever you want, but you can’t say things that are absolutely never acceptable.
and whose to say what is ABSOLUTELY NEVER acceptable? because in some cultures the word I said is 100% acceptable and encouraged to say. and riots stance has always been, you can say what you want as long as its not in a harmful way.
Chermorg (NA)
: Things don’t warrant a certain punishment in League. They warrant punishment, or no punishment. There is no distinction between mildly and majorly negative (except for hate speech, etc). You were warned in your 14 day ban that negative behavior would result in a permanent suspension. You were actually quite negative here. This wasn’t mild at all. You spend almost the entire game harassing your temamates and blaming them for the loss, either directly or indirectly.
this is mildly toxic compared to true toxic. this here is an example of dealing with trolls/players who refuse to try and win/ feeders etc. which is why the punishment system is flawed. riot expects you to do what exactly when faced with a player who (lets say in the first game) self admits that theyve never played kog in ranked before only bots? I tried to help him learn, and tried to tell him he shouldve been playing normals? but he just kept saying he wont learn unless its ranked. and riot wants me to be nice and happy that im losing a game because this guy is stupid enough to not learn a champ? and in that same game an aatrox for who the later half of the game sells all his items for tears, because i told him the choice to play aatrox into teemo was a bad idea only proven by the fact that he died alot to teemo? OR BETTER YET: the game where I talk about muting ww, and ended up winning as mid draven. That ww was a self admitted "inter" and HE WAS THE ONLY ONE TO REPORT ME FOR BEING TOXIC that game. for the most part that game I was actually more POSITIVE than i was negative, because I did what riot wants players to do, I muted him, ignored him, didnt let his inting tilt me, and played as a team player with the other three to win the game (yet riot thinks I should be punished because he got mildly offended that I muted him and stopped giving him the time of day? Arcade Andrew: gj Arcade Andrew: boom gj guys Arcade Andrew: two turrets Arcade Andrew: gj guy Arcade Andrew: guys Arcade Andrew: lol woops Arcade Andrew: for a second i forgot cho wasnt on our team Arcade Andrew: gj so far guys Arcade Andrew: we are making up for where this ww is lacking im proud Arcade Andrew: gj job! Arcade Andrew: gj trist Arcade Andrew: and thresh Arcade Andrew: and rek Arcade Andrew: its cus we all muted ww and stopped paying attention to him Arcade Andrew: and we work together better as 4 than tryna reason with him Arcade Andrew: see ww is just trolling but if we ignore him we win Arcade Andrew: no ww just mute him and let him troll Arcade Andrew: then we report him Arcade Andrew: weve been winning without him anyways Arcade Andrew: its ok thresh Arcade Andrew: you doing good bb Arcade Andrew: GOOD HOOK Arcade Andrew: my quad :p lol Arcade Andrew: got stolen Arcade Andrew: rek guy Arcade Andrew: dw about ww Arcade Andrew: just mute him and report him after Arcade Andrew: we are doing fine without him Arcade Andrew: you trist thresh and i Arcade Andrew: are godlike Arcade Andrew: lets just focus on wiinning without him as if he were an afk Arcade Andrew: which would be worse bc at least he is distracting them Arcade Andrew: hes not worth gold so Arcade Andrew: see Arcade Andrew: we got this :D Arcade Andrew: gj team :D Arcade Andrew: ggwp THATS PRETTY DAMN positive the only negative that really could be construed is the first part of the game Arcade Andrew: rek guy Arcade Andrew: REK GUY Arcade Andrew: sigh Arcade Andrew: and this lovely jungle gave my enemy laner first blood Arcade Andrew: how did i fucking know this team would fucking suck to Arcade Andrew: siugh Arcade Andrew: ... no it didnt you refusing to attack it and letting them ward it got you killed Arcade Andrew: and feeding my enemy laner two kills now Arcade Andrew: without ganking mid once Arcade Andrew: but hey lets blame me Arcade Andrew: lol i have every right to be mad when you solo invade and give my laner first blood Arcade Andrew: then get mad at me for being annoyied Arcade Andrew: and now you refuse to play Arcade Andrew: yeah immuting Arcade Andrew: and reporting ww Arcade Andrew: the rest of you are doing fine Arcade Andrew: but ww will be why we lost Arcade Andrew: its ok youll win at which point i did what riot WOULD WANT ME TO DO and decided to ignore him, and be positive with the rest of my team to come out ahead and win the game. (but yes lets punish me for this?) NOW AS STATED. this isnt me defending anything, this is me saying how flawed the system currently is that riot is punishing players on "you get punished or you dont" without regards to any grey areas. its like riot wants to try and instill the fact that in league there are no grey areas, youre either "SUPER CARE BEAR POSITIVE" or youre "SUPER NEO NAZI TOXIC" and its been this way for a long time, and by now youd think riot would realize how to punish people without it being so harsh and learn how to do a case by case basis and include some context.
: > i got one game where i said a slur ONCE out of any harmful context and got a 14 day ban. > ... > do with this what you will league community but @riot: your system is seriously flawed when it never takes in context OF ANYTHING. Just curious, in what context did you think that the word that got you a 14 day ban would be OK?
because prior to them changing the rule, riots stance has always been "you can curse and say whatever you want, just dont be a dick about it" which is why if you said "FUCK I DIED" cant be punishable, but if you say "HEY YOU FUCKING FUCK STOP DYING" is. so what I SAID was in no way directed to be mean at anyone, or toxic tword anyone (hell i didnt even get reported for using that word, but got reported for feeding, and the auto scan detected the word and banned me)
Rioter Comments
: People are too petty and eager to label ANY death as "inting" If you get focused by the whole team? Inting If you try to ward and enemy jumps out and one-shots you? Inting.. ANY death is labeled as inting so they can remove the "unskilled" players from thier precious game. I am now seeing people who will Intentionally avoid helping a teammate so they can turn around and say "report X for inting" Its why I am less and less interested in helping my team. Because the moment I go in to help my team. I will get blamed for it.
this isnt, about wether or not he was feeding, this was about getting the instant notification that a player i reported was punished and for all intensive purposes this wouldve been the only person i had reported for such a serious offense, aside from minor toxic chat.
Chermorg (NA)
: The most likely thing is that you got that notification for another player that was reported by you. Most inting punishments don't actually send notifications if I remember right.
this would be odd, because i hadnt reported any players besides that one, very recently. and it was very coincidental that i got the feedback shortly after reporting the inter
: > [{quoted}](name=Arcade Andrew,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=fwcYL7PO,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-09-13T04:16:35.993+0000) > > Ok so this player in the game four days ago, even self admitted to start Inting, and the instant feedback would assume he was punished, yet hes playing games 4 days later. which means hes circumventing the ban process somehow, or he wasnt properly banned for feeding correct? As I swiftly added after, but I guess not fast enough, it's best to consult Riot support on this. It's kinda a big deal, where people who should be punished given the message from the feedback system but somehow continues to be able to play for some reason. Unless you filed in other reports inbetween then and now and the feedback was about another case instead of this one or something, or they somehow managed to convince Riot that the ban was faulty and got lifted, but even then you are still onto something. > (also what does IIRC mean?) A short for "if I recall correctly".
I sent the ticket in letting them know, and THANK YOU i had no idea what IIRC meant lol. It's not to much of an issue for me personally, Im just curious if the punishment was or wasnt a 14 day ban. I just would like to know for future reference if i ever encounter the rare feeder again, of what they will expect if they were to be punished
: IIRC, First offence, 14 day. Second offence before your account standing dilutes back to good standing, perma ban. .............. If you think the system is not behaving as it should in that people who should be banned is still playing, you can ask support about it through a support ticket.
Ok so this player in the game four days ago, even self admitted to start Inting, and the instant feedback would assume he was punished, yet hes playing games 4 days later. which means hes circumventing the ban process somehow, or he wasnt properly banned for feeding correct? (also what does IIRC mean?)
Rioter Comments
: I see. What happens when it's a good idea to stop them from rushing baron 5 times in one really long game? And the team CONTINUES to try to stop them 4v5. Those 4 just won't listen to the 1 who wants to wander by themselves. Those 4 are CONTINUALLY 'refusing' to play as a 'team player'. I really like Truly Bland's take. Imagine that all 4 members of your team are CONTINUALLY telling you to build 6 {{item:3083}} Warmog's Armor because it's overpowered how much health you can stack with them. You think that's stupid and CONTINUALLY don't build it. Are they allowed to report you, and have you be punished because you're not playing how they want? Each player is allowed to play how they want, as long as they're trying to win. ------- >currently not playing as a team player, regardless of score, is still punishable, but im simply stating if they end up also dying alot, whilst also not playing as a team player, should it be considered feeding, and punished accordingly? If something is already against the rules, and already gets punished, adding this wouldn't change anything. But disagreeing on calls or builds isn't punishable. -------- ****Your own score is WORSE**** You have a 0/6/0 game. You called once or twice ok, and set up a buffer so that only those who legitimately should be punished would get caught by your metric. Your own score is worse. I can help you petition for a 14 day ban for your account. I will assist you in this.
do you STILL not get it? ok first off lets go to your invalid argument of a 0/6 support game WHERE I WAS ACTIVELY TRYING TO WIN AND PLAYING AS A TEAM PLAYER (NOTE: i DID NOT die as a result of refusing to listen to my team feeding or trolling) that should sum it up right there, you are mis constrewing my words to "oh your score is bad you should be banned" I AM NOT SAYING THAT AT ALL AND YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT. so im going to assume youre some sort of dumb here and put it simple for you: THIS IS NOT ABOUT ITEMS. THIS IS NOT ABOUT BAD CALLS. THIS IS NOT ABOUT BARONS OR WHATEVER OTHER SILLY REFERENCE YOU WANT TO MAKE. THIS IS NOT ABOUT SCORE. I will tell you WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. THIS IS ABOUT ADDING THE "charge" OF FEEDING, to somebody who is REPORTED for TROLLING when their trolling also is unintentionally feeding. which was in my ORIGINAL FREAKING POST A player continually refuses to listen/play as a team player and continually dies as a result of refusing to try. as you stated that is ALREADY punishable so for one, I dont see youre huge deal here, because im simply stating that if they ALSO are dying alot (with a bad score IE: 0/5 or above in a short game) THEN can they also be punished for Inting aswell as trolling. THIS WOULD NOT EFFECT SOMEBODY WHO IS NOT TROLLING. If they only want to play solo and are truly trying to win, but then end up dying alot anyways, but they arent trolling or straight out refusing to try and win or play as a team? THEN THEY WOULD BE FREAKING FINE. but I digress, I must say that i cant wait for your response to this one, because im sure itll contain at least the three following things 1) something about bad calls and baron and warmogs 2) some random invalid argument about how im wrong and youre right 3) you bringing up a game from over 3 months ago where i went 0/6 as support braum (which i had a hard time finding myself, so you know this got personal when you went 3months into my match history just to try and prove me wrong, which already makes your claims invalid)
Ulanopo (NA)
: >they are intentionally refusing to listen to their entire team though No one should be forced to obey their team like that. That's a sure recipe for bullying. "You didn't take _<Insert Item Here>_, reported!"
Im referring to continually refusing to play as a team member though. once or twice IS FINE. However if a player continually intentionally refuses to play as a team member, and feeds as a result of it, I think they should also be punished not just for negative attitude but feeding as well. Otherwise its a perfectly acceptable defense to go out and feed and then just say as a defense "I didnt mean to feed I just like playing solo"
: Sometimes deaths happen because of a disagreement in priorities instead of a given priority being mistaken. Imagine that in a specific scenario, contesting baron would be a good idea. The opponents used their ults recently and are at low mana. They decided to rush a warded baron. There is plenty of time to see them walking to it. Your side lanes are all in good positions. No drake is available. All the red/blue buffs are taken. Your team is up in levels and items. If the tank of your comp decides that it's a bad idea and wanders off, your team may lose the fight, *proving* that it was a bad idea to contest baron. If the CC of your comp decides that it's a bad idea and wanders off, your team may lose the fight, *proving* that it was a bad idea to contest baron. If your ADC decides that it's a bad idea and wanders off, your team may lose the fight, *proving* that it was a bad idea to contest baron. ------ Who is at fault? The one who made the call to contest baron? The ones who followed the call to contest baron? The one who didn't want to contest baron? You can't punish differences in decision making. The people who tend to make good decisions will tend to rise in rank. The people who tend to make bad decisions will tend to drop in rank. _____ Once a Shaco invaded a Sejuani jg early. One teammate pings for the Sejuani to retreat. That would have saved the life of the Sej, but put her far behind. Fighting against a Shaco would result in death. Neither good choices. Another teammate collapsed on the Shaco and killed him for first blood. Supporting your team and working together works wonders. ____ There are times, often, where someone is making bad decisions where trying to assist them would result in a much quicker loss. Those aren't fun. Focus on the winning lanes. Rotate around where you're strong. Lose gracefully. -------- You have a 0/6/0 game in your records. You're petitioning for punishment to begin at 0/5 (and didn't mention assists at all). Gameplay related punishments start at a 14 day ban. If you're *sure* that you want a 14 day ban, so that any other infraction causes a permanent ban, I'll be willing to discuss this more.
see you didnt read my scenario, this isnt refusing to buy an item or not agreeing with a call, this is CONTINUED refusal to listen to a team call and go off by yourself and then you die as a result of continually refusing to play as a team player. currently not playing as a team player, regardless of score, is still punishable, but im simply stating if they end up also dying alot, whilst also not playing as a team player, should it be considered feeding, and punished accordingly? I used the 0/5 matrix as a means to give a buffer, because obviously somebody might not play as a team once or twice in a game and die, but if they continually do it, it becomes a problem.
Beas7ie (NA)
: It depends on the player level. If they're new players, then that's not really inting. If they're level 30 even in low Bronze elo they should at least understand the basics such as not feeding over and over, don't go into the enemy jungle alone without vision yadda yadda. If they are level 30 and playing then that is ABSOLUTELY inting in my book. By now they should understand the basics and how to play safe, ESPECIALLY if they are outright ignoring warnings and pings from teammates and still doing the same crap over and over. At that point I would heavily suspect them of trying to be a "smart troll" and sneakily trying to fuck up games. Still don't rage at them or go "Report X feed" if that happens, but I would report them at the end of game and explain the circumstances.
but currently players only get punished for "inting" if they outright continually die in a purposeful manner (IE they walk into the enemy every time they are up/ dive turrets, say they are feeding etc"
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: That's not how intention works, though. Intentionally doing something does not mean the results of that action are intentional. Apart from the intention-issue, the whole "If they didn't listen and then died as a result of not listening" is outcome bias at its finest. Dying does not mean that a bad decision was made. If I always tell people to do exactly the opposite of what they are doing right now, I am bound to occasionally be able to claim they died because they weren't listening to me... even if they made the right call.
they are intentionally refusing to listen to their entire team though (under the whole idea that its better to mess up as a whole, than try and do the right thing solo) and then that leads to them dying alot, by refusing to play as a team player.
: Well, I voted yes, but there's a caveat to my vote. At higher ranks, this is 100% inting. Those players should know better than to put themselves in that sort of situation to continually die. But at lower ranks, and especially with newer players, they simply don't have the game knowledge yet to know what they are capable of getting away with without dying. So for them, I wouldn't necessarily consider it to be intentionally feeding, so much as just having an overall lower skill level. And Riot doesn't punish people for being bad at the game. Part of learning what a champion is capable of doing is trying and failing, which means sometimes people are going to die in stupid ways. Part of learning how to counter jungle is invading, and sometimes you are going to invade solo and die. It's all just part of learning the game at the lower ranks, and in normal matches, so for those, we shouldn't judge too harshly. Especially in normal matches. But for me personally, once I see that a player is gold or higher, I tend to be less forgiving of repeated stupid mistakes. I expect those players to have a decent idea of how to play the game, and if they keep making the same exact mistakes and feeding kills, despite being told how to prevent those deaths, then yes, I consider that to be intentionally feeding. Especially if the mistakes are based around general game knowledge, and not champions-specific mechanics. I can forgive someone for not being able to do a perfect Azir combination, or missing a Lee Sin Insec combo, but if my mid laner flashes under the enemy turret 3 times with 10 hp to try and auto the enemy who has 200 hp, I'm not going to be so forgiving. I don't expect perfect plays, just common sense and teamwork.
and as i predicted im getting a slurry of downvotes with no constructive responses other than this one, which is supporting my claim. but this is generally what I am referring to. but even in ranked in bronze, these players have reached level 30 and played many games unlocked enough champs to do ranked, if they are in ranked they should know better. and if they continually dont, I would count it as inting
: Ignoring teammates and trying to make plays that don't pan out does not mean they're intentionally trying to give gold to the enemy team. "Feeding" is not the report category. "Being stupid" is not the report category. "Intentional Feeding" is the report category.
and I voted yes, because by intentionally ignoring their teammates and then dying because of it, could mean they intentionally died (as a result of not listening)
Rioter Comments
: PSA: telling players that they are terrible and should get demoted is not toxic
I dont think you people get Op's point. lets put it like this: say I want to be an NFL football player, yet im horrible at the game. Now lets say I go to a practice for the dolphins, and i do horrible. the coach tells me "you suck at this game, we cant let you play on our team, and you dont deserve this over a guy who actually is good." now lets say you bitch and moan and complain saying he discriminated against you and was being "toxic" and everyone agrees he was an asshole and that you should get drafted. now youre on the team and have zero idea what youre doing and you get tackled by 10 burly dudes and end up in a coma for the rest of your life. congratulations thats what being PC will do to you.
: How to Reward Vets (Without just dumping 30+ boxes on them)
OR they could just give a 100% refund on anything that somebody has ever purchased that they are now giving away for free? (just a thought)
Skorch (NA)
: While i agree that Riot seems to like drastically changing the game. This one is quite needed and wanted. A lot of people have complained about the issues that this change is addressing, and the only way to fix them is a big overhaul.
the problem is every "big problem" people bitch about isnt really a big problem, then they overhaul something and make a brand fucking new game. runes are pretty simple: either make em free, and REFUND 100 PERCENT OF THE BOUGHT RUNES TO ALL PLAYERS. or increase ways to gain ip. (quests would be a good one)
Skorch (NA)
: I need to ask, did people really think that theyd get a large refund for runes?
I just think riot needs to stop changing their game so drastically every freaking year. all the reasons i started playing league in the first place dont even exist anymore. its a brand freaking new game every year. like yeah there can be some much needed big balance changes etc, but i wish theyd just sit down and say "hey maybe we shouldnt turn this into a brand new game every year"
KoKoboto (NA)
: top 10% across the board c:
putting my yellow "friendly" one on so RIOT KNOWS my ban was BS for one word... lol dishonorable my ass at least they didnt take away these icons even though i was (in my opinion) way unjustly banned over one word
Lost R (NA)
: Twelve years ago, I said something to someone to cut into their nerves so deep, they tried to choke me to death while screaming their lungs out, and later on smashed my head into a dumpster. I don't have any feeling in my forehead anymore. A two week ban with no permanent physical injury, I'd say you got off easy.
and I bet you said it in a way that was meant to belittle them and not in a fun connotative way in which nobody was harmed/offended and if you didnt mean to be so hurtful, then that goes to show you the double standard here. you said a word and they think its ok to nearly kill you because of a word? I hope they ended up in prison for attempted murder. and i hope you sued and they are giving every cent they ever earn to you.
: Wait, I'm curious now. You are saying you got banned for a word, but only because you were reported, for feeding?
yes. I mean in reality It prob didnt matter if i was reported or not, BUT when i appealed this, they said every game that is played has an active chat scan sourcing out words that are said like that word
: AP have Zhonya's, which I am sure ADC's would love one of those. Ooooo and we need a special duskblade for tanks that does 25% of their total life as true damage! Not everyone needs identical items.
but an hourglass isnt a revive... and ad/ap have bard for that now? and Im just saying ga was a nice stapled balanced item that fit well on both roles, but then they just boom switched it to an AD item, when AD doesn't exactly need it? (due to lifesteal) also speaking of regen AD now has GA and lifesteal but AP doesnt have either (since spellvamp was removed)
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: >like honestly i know that word is a "bad word" well so is fuck, and so is shit. Sounds like you needed that 14-day to show that there's quite a difference between "Fuck" and "f%%%got". And did you **really** need a warning to explain to you that using sexual orientation as an insult is not okay? That using a **slur** meant to attack people based on sexual orientation as casual insult is wrong? Using that word has never been acceptable, Riot's detection is just getting better. And how do you know that nobody was offended? Feeding reports don't scan chat logs, after all.
you know what a "fa**ot" is? a f*g is a cigarette, its not even a slur, YOURE FROM EUNE YOU GUYS USE f*g all the time (at least here in the states) when you ask for cigs, literally i could go to a club and a person from EU will come up to me when im smoking and ask "can i buy a f*g off you?" and yeah there is a difference, so what. did you not see the part where "so if "gg" offends me and makes me want to kms, then maybe everyone who says gg should get 14 day bans" or can you not read? also I DID NOT USE IT AS AN INSULT, if you cant read i said "I DID NOT USE IT IN AN INSULTING BAD OR TOXIC MANNER" and that word used to be acceptable as long as nobody was offended or reported you for it (as were alot of words) riots stance was always "you can curse but dont be a jerk about it" WHICH APPLIED to slurs (people were allowed to use n*g*a/ni*ger in non offensive ways hell i even posted a meme with the word n**ga in it and got forum banned and had that ban overturned because riot saw that i didnt post it in any offensive manner) but now they switched to this detection system which SCANS EVERY GAME (which was told to me by a rioter when i appealed the ban and called bullshit) and they stated that every game is scanned for those words and they have zero tolerance for them now in ANY context, which I didnt know which is WHY A WARNING WOULD BE NICE. but oh well.
Rioter Comments
: that is the reason then, they have a zero tolorence on hate speech
which they always did BUT THEY TOOK INTO ACCOUNT CONTEXT AND IF YOU WERE REPORTED FOR IT OR NOT. I was NOT reported for calling somebody in a jokingly friendly manner in the first two minutes of the game a "F*****" I was reported FOR FEEDING which happened 20+ minutes later (i didnt even int i just had an off game) and the system flagged my game and BOOM 14 day ban FOR A ONE TIME USE OF THE WORD NOT EVEN USED IN A TOXIC OR OFFENSIVE MANNER THAT NOBODY EVEN WAS BOTHERED BY. and like i already said, fuck it whatever riots new system is fucking trash, but i took the 14 days with a grain of salt whatever. but its fucking ridiculous that they went from "yeah you can curse and say whatever just dont be toxic" to "NO THESE WORDS ARE NOW NO LONGER ALLOWED NO MATTER WHAT CONTEXT OR MEANING THEY MEAN TO YOU" (censorship) and then to not warn somebody about that and actually tell them HEY THESE WORDS ARE NO LONGER ALLOWED, but rather let them use it and get banned and figure out without a warning, is bullshit. and then taking away more shit for an undetermined amount of time for that bullshit ban, is even more bullshit
: what was the one word?
it was the word F**got. ONE TIME and not even used in ANY harmful context (called my friend it) AND NOBODY was offended, but I was later reported for feeding, and then got banned from ONE WORD. one time use of the word when never used before should warrant a warning first (LIKE THE OLD SYSTEM) and repeated rule breaking, should result in chat bans then bans. BECAUSE IT NEVER USED TO AUTO 14 DAY BAN YOU WHEN YOU USED THAT WORD. (I would know i used to use it more frequently back in s2/3/4 and was never banned, warned a few times when using it in a toxic manner, but then i cleaned up and was good to go.) like honestly i know that word is a "bad word" well so is fuck, and so is shit. also maybe the word "gg" triggers me. so should that mean people should get instant 14 day bans over it? its so fucking harsh for ONE WORD. they couldve fucking warned me and said "hey watch it, we dont allow that word anymore, use it again and you will get banned." but nope BOOM 14 day ban because I didnt fucking know they changed it to flat out certain words arent even allowed (nice censorship going on) and they have an automatic detection system that bans you for using those words EVEN if you dont get reported AND TAKES ALL CONTEXT OUT OF IT.
: You got at least 2 more weeks, if not more.
Rioter Comments
: Rewards for old Honor are out
and if we got punished (for a BS reason) this year, let me guess we DONT get them again, even though i had 500+ honors in each category and got a yellow ribbon at point (not in the last year though i dont think)
: Difference is yours is hate speech, even if you had non-toxic intentions. What is posted here is not toxic, even if it isn't exactly moral lifting. He was not aggressive, didn't use any foul language, and didn't flame. So yes, his claim is more valid.
yes I GET THAT, but you dont get my point, I SAID IT IN A NON TOXIC MANNER. and it was the only word i got banned 14 DAYS FOR. and suddenly im a dishonorable degenerate who doesn't deserve rewards, because I didnt know riot decided to make a system that SEARCHES for these words instead of relying on people to report you for them if they were offended by it. I GET THAT I WOULD DESERVE A BAN if i was USING IT AS HATE SPEECH and actively being toxic with the intent to cause them emotional harm. however I SAID IT IN A NON TOXIC FUN NON HATEFUL WAY. NOBODY got offended over that word in the game, yet instead of a warning saying "hey we dont want that word in league anymore so please dont use it, even in a non toxic way" I got hit in the face with a 14 FUCKING DAY BAN OVER ONE WORD THAT NOBODY GOT BUTTHURT OVER. I even appealed the ban, but the rioter who helped me (who was very professional and I have nothing against him because he was just doing his or her job) stated, that the policy is, that word = instant 14 day ban or perma ban in really bad cases. AND THAT POLICY is what im arguing against, because its a bullshit policy. the policy doesnt take into account context, wether or not people were hurt by my use of that word ONE TIME, wether or not that word still means what it does (I actually have seen the hate part of that word die down, and the real meaning of the word (a cigarette) become more popular. ALSO if you wanna argue hate speech here: calling somebody a "f--got" is literally calling them a cigarette, and youre telling me thats hate speech? YOUR LOGICALLY TELLING ME that calling somebody a smoke, is offensive? and for those who get offended? they literally need to suck it up, the word isnt ponies and rainbows and if you feel so attacked when somebody calls you a cigarette because youre gay, then you need to re-evaluate your life. there are people who actually will physically assault you and kill you (as well as cultures) if youre homosexual, yet somebody decided that calling somebody a smoke is hate speech.
: Permanently banned (With Ingame log)
What I want to know is how come, you can make a post complaining about a perma ban, in which most cases even with provided chat logs, player lynch mob you into downvote hell. yet you get upvotes. BUT WHEN I MADE IT with a 14 day ban where I only said 1 trigger word (the f word that you call gay people) and complained that, that was super harsh for one word out of context, I got downvotes into hell. sometimes the league community makes no sense, I complain about an unjustified 14 day ban (shouldve given me a chat restriction at most to tell me, "HEY dont call people %%%g0ts anymore" but nope my warning was a 14 day ban..... basically: you probably deserved it, if i deserved a 14 day ban for one word, and i cant wait until you get smote with other chat logs
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Arcade Andrew

Level 30 (NA)
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