: Why is normal matchmaking so bad?
Yeah I've been playing against mixed plat/G1 teams (with silver and low gold players on my team) for the last couple months now, losing 80% of games. Losing interest. I stopped playing ranked at G5 because I was tired of trying to beat plats to climb TO plat lol. Now I can't even play norms because you just get shredded by mastery 7 plats, OR, you could afk at tower and your grossly overmatched team would just win for you. I cannot remember the last time I had a decently matched game.
: A lot of toxic people will not hesitate to make the game miserable for their team, team mates, or the enemy team with abusive and berating language. Sorry, if someone's going to flame and be a toxic piece of garbage, they don't deserve any sympathy. Frankly, I'd prefer it if they were given less slack - I wish it was way easier for a flamer to get banned from certain game modes, chat, ranked play, etc. for being a trash bag of a human being.
If only the banning system actually differentiated those people.
: Nah, foreign concept. Can't go find a game they like more; they just want league to revolve around them.
It confuses me these comments. Like what type of person bothers to leave them. Hypocrites at best.
Rude Name (OCE)
: Seriously not liking Riot’s responses to everything.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
: I personally have used the statement that the boards are a minority of our population, so think I may have some response that's valid to this post. When we/I say things like that, it's almost always in response to players making hyperbolic statements like "literally every player hates these changes" or "90% of all players don't like this preseason, just look at the boards, and everyone I've talked to has said the same thing". We don't always react to what the boards are talking/voicing frustrations about, but that doesn't mean we're not listening. Take game pacing for example, our first reaction to the boards is not to try and correct the entire game because there's a number of threads where players are talking about the game feeling like it progresses too quickly. Instead, we'll take that and look **globally** both through objective data that we collect such as game length, game pacing, time to turret kills, bloodiness etc. We also run subjective surveys in the client to collect feedback from players **globally** to understand at a higher level what's going on with the game. In regards to your final statement about "why can't the people who love the game right now come here and tell us about it?", the answer comes down to human nature. If you're enjoying something, there's very little reason to go out of your way to talk about how much you're enjoying it, you just keep doing it. When things go a direction that you're NOT happy with, that's when you tend to speak out about how you're not happy. To use a REALLY abstract example. If you go to a restaurant and order a steak and mashed potatoes and it gets to your table and it's a solid 8/10, you're probably not going to sing the praises of the chef to your waiter, but you're also not going to complain about your food. If it comes out and it's a 1/10, the steak is burned to a crisp, the mashed potatoes taste like glue, you're almost certainly going to pull the waiter over to complain about how shitty it is. tl;dr - the boards can be considered something of a "flag" that indicates something is wrong, but rather than pivot immediately, we'll take the time to make sure something is **actually** a problem before acting. Sorry this is kind of on the short side and glosses over a pretty large topic, I was just heading out of the office but wanted to chime in quickly. Hopefully what I said makes sense though, if not I can try to clarify some of it later.
Huh, when I go out for dinner and it's really good, i leave a comment on the yelp or whatever. I don't ever see anything that impresses me THAT much with league that I feel that urge. Only annoying or frustrating enough to complain about it.,
: 2018 NA LCS Spring Split
The schedule is pretty B.S.. if you want to be a serious sport, make it so real people can watch games, like NHL etc. Every single team playing matches like 2 days a week? It's like 7 hours of games a day. 1 match a day all week would probably be easier to get interested in. VoDs aren't always the same experience
: 2018 Academy League Spring Split
Pretty pointless for fans, but might be good for the teams? Might also just be another cut into their profits and a headache though. That would more be the riot special, so colour me pessimistic 😂
: It's very exciting! To see last years teams compete, with SSG pushing to finally win the world! Exciting indeed. And if the quarterfinals and semifinals were any sign, this final will be a bang for sure! I wish it was TSM vs SKT with TSM winning but that did not happen. Perhaps next time! This stupidity about SKT being boring is so tiresome! Make a more intelligent criticism if you are going to criticize them. It's like saying, "Messi is so boring, getting the ball and kicking it into a goal all the time. How boring!" If the other team is arrogant or ignore the obvious to allow Galio pick, why not? To not pick Galio would be stupid. What I see in SKT is extremely talented individuals who know how to work together! When you look at how they "react" and work together in crazy situations they had to play this year, you start to appreciate how much effort and time they invest in order to play at their level. So appreciate SKT while they are around. Enjoy the finals friends!
"This stupidity about SKT being boring is so tiresome! Make a more intelligent criticism if you are going to criticize them." That's a bit of a rude way to discount someone else's opinion out of hand, but ok. In fairness, I didn't lay out my justifications for this point of view in this particular comment, but I have in others in this thread. I should also state that I'm not against the players or the team, they are one of my favourites. But here: They put the most mechanically gifted player on Galio every single game, and he's not the most interesting champ to watch. You could say that the other teams should just ban it, but this just proves there's no proper in game answer. It's an overtuned unkillable champ before you even get items, and it still has hilarious waveclear. And it's a fine strategy to abuse this to win, and because SKT is smart, they do. That is smart, but not exciting. Draft is boring to watch because you know what will happen, they make a comp that works around galio. They are also a big Kog player, which I also find 1 dimensional and boring, though this is not unique to them. The pace is slow, they use the same strat 99% of games, and it's not so much a question of other teams adapting against it or to it, it's whether or not this makes for interesting gameplay, which so far I am saying not really. And I am someone who likes the underlying strategy in a game, and watching map movements, vision wars etc, i'm not just in it for the skirmishes. It was the same story last worlds, picking annoying or boring champs and abusing them to victory. Again, it is smart, just not as entertaining as watching misfits or RNG push them. If every team tried to do things the way SKT does, I would 100% stop watching- same reason I almost did stop watching in S5- the games get very monotonous and everything is very expected. Hope this helps clear up my personal point of view a bit- I am not trying to hate on the team.
: Why change what works?
Yeah I'm just annoyed by what's working. I find Galio extremely unsatisfying to watch, feels like he's a bit overtuned, and overtuned tanks just walk around never dying. Also, you take this mechanically gifted player, and put him on this champ, and it dulls the potential for exciting gameplay. Kogmaw as well. Compare Uzi's plays in the RNG vs SKT series on champs like twitch and vayne, compared to the kogmaw game. Kog just stands and autos and chases as long as w is up, it's very 1 dimensional and watching how he positions and when is just a very small part that interests me. Vayne and twitch though? Uzi was taking risks, making plays, and making it work. There was more dynamics to observe from that side and it just made for a more interesting experience. I get that it's all about winning, and SKT would be crazy to change what they do with the money involved, but it doesn't make me enjoy them as a team or want to be a fan, it's just not worth watching in a lot of ways.
: SKT vs SSG again... how exciting...
Yeah I'm sorta in this camp- at least SSG might make it interesting... we can hope! Wasn't a fan of them last season, but this time around they grew on me. SKT still the same ole boring picks/play. They are only fun to watch when another team pushes them out of their comfort, and even then it's all reactionary, all galio lol :D
: They can't ban Galio so he'll just Hero's Entrance and smash them all with his superior mechanics.
: This year's worlds has been by far the best. SSG, has a good chance if their bot lane can get ahead. It was a shame to see RNG lose though.
Agreed- they are what was fun to watch. What bugs me about SKT is that every year they win from boring OP champ picks and boring playstyle. I swear one more Galio or Kogmaw game zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
: What games are you playing?
Not league thank gahd :D:D:D
: If your client crashed you were no longer contributing to the game. That is considered AFK by the Leaverbuster system. This warning pops up the first time you AFK, I think. I've seen this warning myself, when the power went out. It does not earn a punishment for the first AFK. Showing a pattern of going AFK will earn LPQ (low priority queue) that will cause a small wait before you're allowed to join a queue (for 5 games). If this happens often enough to earn a punishment, it's your responsibility to figure out why it's happening and to fix it.
Lol yeah it was more just the momentary hilariousness of the situation and that I was being forced to admit to a "crime" or something :) Thanks!
Eedat (NA)
: If you're having issues with the client, try checking these two boxes https://imgur.com/uRcVWp9 The second option actually closes the client while you're in game. If you're still having issues, it's not the client.
: I don't think you got banned for the word cancer. I would have reported you simply for negative attitude.
And by all means lets pretend we can make society a better place by taking mildly negative player's accounts away as if that's going to meaningfully solve anything...
: Logs where you saw yourself as "just chatting" obviously upset and offended the people you played with. It takes an extended period of regular toxicity to get a 14-day suspension, and beyond that point, anything short of complete reform will trigger a permanent ban.
"Logs where you saw yourself as "just chatting" obviously upset and offended the people you played with." This is also a false equivalence. That's not at all what that proves. Clearly the game wasn't going well and people were frustrated about that. I refuse to believe anyone was actually hurt by what he said in there. The problem is, people will report out of spite and as a point of blaming a loss. If you were sarcastic at all in the game, because that's who you fkn are as a person, then yeah, of course the mindless system will ban you. If you think the game will be better off by getting rid of people who chat like that, hoo boy you are in for a rude awakening in the real world.
: Permabanns don't fall out of the sky. You start 10 day chat restricted - > 25 day chat restriction- > 14 day account ban - > permaban. OP clearly has a history of this type of behavior. And yes it is worth "this type (toxic) of behavior". "cancer game" "idc anymore" "im trolling" "pff kiddo" i stand still "tardo" "wtf is wront with u" "trash" "and toxic trashes too" Good riddance.
This is false confirmation. The argument is that the system and what it decides to ban on is flawed. Just because they gave a warning that it's coming, doesn't make it right. This world is so much sadder than I thought, if people can type the above comment, on the INTERNET, with a straight face. We keep getting this soft with eachother, we won't be able to interact socially at all without starting wars. What a joke.
: >a line between "harassing" others, and HOW you harass others Why? >other players should be expected to mute That's where I draw the line. If I have to mute you because your chat is meandering and whining, I don't want it in my game. >Some people want to wind down and be themselves and not be afraid to do so. I'm all for that. So why shouldn't they "play with friends only"? The difference is my actions aren't disrupting their play. You're constantly typing? You're not constantly watching the map or getting CS. Constantly arguing? You're arguing with someone else, and that's affecting their play, and mine.
"If I have to mute you because your chat is meandering and whining, I don't want it in my game." And that's your opinion- judging someone who vocalizes there displeasure with a game as a way to enjoy/cope with bad situations is pretty judgemental man. It's cool that you are too good for that stuff, but I don't think someone needs to have their account removed for that. Especially in light of all the ACTUAL negativity there is. "You're constantly typing? You're not constantly watching the map or getting CS." It's a game. Not LCS. Most times not even ranked. Chill dude. You can't make not playing 100% to win into a social crime. That type of paragon outlook on people as human beings is depressing. Point is you can mute that and then it's no different to the vast majority of players who never type or communicate in any way ever, which I argue is just as detrimental to the winning and doing well as a team you are so fixated on in this.
: If you are sitting next to the friends that you are playing with, why would you ever TYPE negative "sarcastic" things in the game?
I do this all the time when I play with my brother or wife, it's to get a laugh, and most real people are good-natured enough to see the humour in it. We aren't talking about actual flaming or saying hurtful things. My account got banned without ever personally insulting anyone, outside of calling them a "noob". I typed waaaaaaay more sincere compliments and helpful information about the game to other players than I typed "negative" sarcastic things, but the system gives no fks.
Chermorg (NA)
: It doesn't need to understand sarcasm - if you're being "sarcastic" it's probably because what you're saying is negative. I don't care if it was your premade - unless you were a 5 man premade you subjected an innocent bystander to your flaming.
"It doesn't need to understand sarcasm - if you're being "sarcastic" it's probably because what you're saying is negative." This is the kind of out of touch, over the top BS that I disagree with you on all the time. If this is the dystopian world you want us to live in where we are all emotionless "positive forces", then count the normal people out man.
: Regardless of context, if you say something that offends someone and you get reported for it, the system is going to correctly flag that behavior as being detrimental to another player's experience. The system hinges on reports. If you don't offend anyone, you don't get reports, and the system can't touch you. But if you're exhibiting a behavior that people don't want to see in their games and you are reported multiple times for this behavior, the context is irrelevant, because the system's goal is to remove any form of sustained behavior that detriments the experience of other players, and it does its job by suspending accounts that match this profile. If a certain player's misunderstandings frequently upset or offend people and earn reports, they don't belong in the environment that the report system is trying to create.
People get offended by you feeding, or if you disagree with their strategy. You are working on the assumption that people are capable of fairly judging their peers, and I've not observed this to be the case. Then if you've said something sarcastic in that game at any point, when they report you for poor reasons, the computer can still justify the report. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
: I disagree. I've used these words in my chat. Never been punished. But I mostly talk about myself. However, when I see people post their punishments, these words are used to harass others. In the OP instance, he's mostly being annoying. None of his chat is directed toward winning the game. Go ahead and copy paste your line, then say nothing else in the game. You don't get punished for words alone, but for chat that isn't directed toward winning.
"However, when I see people post their punishments, these words are used to harass others. " This is the issue. There should be a line between "harassing" others, and HOW you harass others, and there isn't. Personally, this is an example of a log where the other players should be expected to mute. This is not punishable behaviour to me. This is along the lines of severity of people who don't communicate at all, which is not bannable. There is enough real toxicity out there, people shouldn't be getting hung up on excessive behaviour modification. Some people are sarcastic. Some people are unhappy. Some people are not optimistic. And some people are TOXIC. These are all different things, but the system treats them the same if you vocalize it. If it bothers you that someone is not chatting EXCLUSIVELY about trying to win the GAME, then maybe you should go pro, or play with friends only who have the same goal in mind. Some people want to wind down and be themselves and not be afraid to do so.
Chermorg (NA)
: Yeah, if you repeat toxic behavior, you'll be punished because **that is punishable**. There's no need to repeat toxic behavior. You're free to believe what you want, but I told you how the system works, and that's how it works whether you believe it or not. I hope you'll look into it more and come to accept the fact that the system **can** differentiate between things like "i'm done feeding this yas i'm sitting at turret" and "i'm done with this game i'm sitting at base".
"the system can differentiate between things like "i'm done feeding this yas i'm sitting at turret" and "i'm done with this game i'm sitting at base"" This is fantastic... Does it know if either of those 2 statements are actually wrong? Or is it going to unfairly judge someone with a "history" of "negativity" that one of those is a permanently bannable offense if you are consistently not "yay guys come on we can do this wahoo" ing every game? All the machine can cross reference, is whether or not you consistently stand up to BS from actual toxic players in game, not whether you "consistently ruin games for others". This is like when people make all these wild assumptions from statistics and forget what they can and can't imply from them. It's comes from a simplistic and confirmationally biased point of view. The system has so many flaws and makes so many assumptions that are completely ignored- this is what is so annoying about it.
: Sorry, but arbiters didn't become who they are due to a lack of knowledge of the report system. You can spin your story however many times you'd like, but this system does not ban based solely on whether a word was present.
That wasn't fully the point, but whatever. The real question is whether or not the computer, RIOT's computer, can accurately gauge human interactions and their context. I'm sorry but not even people have that ability in most situations- this is why people typing to each other often leads to heated arguments when it turns out they were misunderstanding, not even disagreeing with each other. People put too much faith in biased badges in this world, sheesh, must be a nice Utopia to exist in.
Rioter Comments
: Welp, not gonna cry about it. (perma bannedd)
Exact same thing happened to me- tame banter is bannable if you have a pattern of it. I believe this is wrong and that most reasonable people probably expect the system to be working against actual toxicity rather than slight negativity. Some people just aren't super sickeningly positive, deal with it, society.
: i believe i have a much better handle on how the system works than you do. but please feel free to believe computers are watching gameplay and can tell the difference between the same phrase used in a positive or a negative way purely by context. the world needs dreamers :D
Just ignore Chermog- he will never admit that Riot might not have enough oversight on this, he will always 100% back them. Trust me, dude will talk in so many circles about it instead of forming his own opinion.
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: So instead of refuting anything you are doing the equivalent of getting beat up and then limping away shouting "I let you win!". Sigh.... Your reponse would be funny if it was not so pathetic.
Sorry had better things to do than "refute" your "points"..
: 2017 ranked season ends November 7
Ah well too bad they banned my account after 4 years at gold. For some seriously toxic stuff.... Also WHY graves?? Haha 🤣
Avarist (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=AriCei,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=swXAeE0v,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2017-09-27T02:20:01.183+0000) > > "Because the game heavily relies on communication and teamwork?" > > This is a fallacy, especially considering the message from the top is to just "mute and move on" in the face of toxicity anyways. People are muting eachother left and right. > Not to mention the new ping system you can communicate literally anything you need to with use of pings. Most people are completely silent in most games anyways and almost never use the chat- especially games where there is no toxicity. The most common use of chat is to troll or chat about off topic things. > > You will not reduce toxicity by banning accounts that are mildly toxic. They will make new accounts with a grudge and a vengeance. In the long term this band-aid is going to build resentment in the community. > > "Not all of us want league to be associated with insipid vitriol, and if reporting people when they step out of line is how we do our part to fix it, then we will do it. " > > You can mute too, hey? Nobody wants this. I started playing this game a long time ago, and I only started being negative in the last year or so, because in the face of so much un-checked negativity and flaming, I eventually started retaliating. > People won't throw away an account they spent thousands of $$ on just because they can't troll or flame in chat (in light of a perma-chatban)- they are more likely to enjoy the game how it's supposed to be instead, and MAYBE one day even actually reform. They might make a new account to troll and flame in chat, but they'd do that if they got the account fully banned anyways. > > Ban people for what they've done wrong and give them the avenues to get better. This system is half-assed and lazy. I understand where you're coming from and yes taken out of context it could be taken as a fallacy, but honestly at any decent MMR, with a team who wants to do it, posting things like the timers for when summoners come off cd, or just quickly saying things like "reset" which are difficult to communicate through pings can be quite important and make the game a lot more enjoyable (For me at least). I have had countless games where people are being positive to one another and saying stuff you can't express through pings. Obviously you don't place much value in that, but others do. The point I was making is that people don't -want- to be put in teams with flamers. Yes we can mute them, yes we can deal with them from our end, but ultimately we shouldn't have to. Outside of scheduling some sort of anger management for the offenders, i'm not sure what Riot as a company is expected to do. Lessening punishment isn't going to solve the issue either. That said, you don't get banned for being "mildly toxic", you get banned for repeat serious offenses. You have to escalate through 3 prior forms of punishment before you are banned forever, in the case where mistakes have happened Riot support has undone bans, but it is rare because they do look into the permabans and ensure they are deserved. Most often they are. My question to you is why you think their position is defensible when they are actively destroying the experience for other players. When you agree with Riots terms and services you are effectively agreeing not to do this stuff, if you do it they have every right to remove you from the game. The fact they offer reward for good behaviour, and the punishments are escalating and not immediate, gives players every chance they need to reform. If they want to continue playing, sure they can restart and make a new account, hopefully that process will give them what they need to reform... If not, they get banned again, until they quit. Also not to be confrontational or anything but please don't use the word fallacy and then immediately go on to say "you can communicate literally anything you need to with use of pings." it kind of lessens your point.
"Also not to be confrontational or anything" this served literally no purpose but to be confrontational, if you really think about it. Anyways. "their position is defensible when they are actively destroying the experience for other players." My point is that there are situations where you get banned by the system and you didn't destroy any experience for anyone- and not even close to "actively". "The fact they offer reward for good behaviour, and the punishments are escalating and not immediate, gives players every chance they need to reform." It doesn't reward for good behaviour- the honour system is very barely tied to actually being honourable and more about who ever carried you the hardest (9 games out of 10 anyways this is how players actually vote). When I got my last ban, I worked my honour level back up from the bottom, and my next offence was still an escalated ban, so there's no real acknowledgement of efforts to reform- they put you on ice and you are stuck there until some ahole rubs you the wrong way in norms after a bad day at work and you tell him to fk off after he flames you all game, in 1 out of 30 games. "If not, they get banned again, until they quit." They likely won't, especially if they A: cared about the game, or B: genuinely play it to troll people. Both of these will start alt accounts if they hadn't already. I have a couple accounts. How many people do you see on here complaining about permabans and how they are on their 3rd banned account? This system is naive and will not achieve what it says it will. The overarching main point that was completely unaddressed, was that you could take their chat away instead of their accounts. You're either trying to reform people or you're not, don't pretend either way, just be straight with us: " we don't want to spend the resources and don't feel it's our responsibility to work on player reform, so we will use a computer to ban you for extremely tame banter if you do it often enough"
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: I did not strawman anything. Fascism has a clear definition, you throw that word around like its candy without even knowing what it means. You say you understand it, yet your application of the word leaves a lot to be desired. How do you deal with someone who break rules and refuses to abide by them? You throw them out or punish them in other ways before that. That is not fascist, that is simple discipline. That is what anyone can do if a guest in their house acts like an ass. That is what parents do when their children do bad things. The deal with Monte is very vague and making statements of intent is far beyond your ability unless you are a mind reader. You do not know why it happened, noone does besides those who made the decision. What you are doing is speculation. And the reasons they got banned was not over toxicity or feeding (Things that are discussed in this thread) but other. So again, you are throwing the word "fascism" around with really, no sense behind it and you also conflate SPECULATIONs about a team ban with actual toxicity and feeding in the game + its rules. If you have Riot and want to rage, just say it instead of trying to justify it in such a stupid manner. Because it is not fascist, not wanting feeders and just around assholes in the game. Just say it. "I want to rage freely in this game and not get banned", because that is what your entire bull here comes down to.
Yeah you aren't capable of properly discussing this :/ Oh well! thanks!
Segius (NA)
: Actually, I feel your wrong in multiple ways, I try to honor people who communicate the most and are the nicest, I rarely ever honor the best actual player unless they hyper carry the whole team, but even then I never do if they are toxic. Also, they are adding a way to honor enemies, but they aren't adding a way to honor multiple people, that would destroy the point. Being able to honor everyone on the team is stupid and is the reason the old system was a failure I massively prefer the new system, not because it "sucks less" but because it's useful and relevant, since I'm level 5 I don't really act a certain way in games in hopes of getting honor, but people are less toxic when they face losing honor levels Also your spelling honor wrong.
It's an alternative spelling. You're spelling you're wrong though. I bet if polled, 99% of players don't honour the way you do, great that you do though. I would also be willing to bet very few people have much reason to really care about the honour levels. The reason the old system was a failure, was because there was no real way to verify honours meaningfully. And this system doesn't help that.
: > [{quoted}](name=Built to Tylt,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=MbjWjg2Y,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-09-26T16:33:30.525+0000) > > Honestly, dude, you are SOL. While I don't think it is ban worthy, Riot really doesn't care. They. Really. Don't. They see chat logs, never review actual game play, and deal out overly harsh punishments. i think you're probably better off finding another game. This one isn't worth your money. Or they have a list of socially unacceptable words that lead to increased punishment. There is no reason to look at actual game play. You don't get a pass on over the top langauge just because you helped your mom with the groceries.
Drugoth (NA)
: Act like a child, get treated like one. That is nothing new, not sure why you're surprised. And no, people don't NEED to be told they "suck ass" most of the time when you think you're righteously calling someone out what you're really doing is just whining and being annoying and non-productive.
Eh you don't have to act like a child to get banned. This is tired logic.
Avarist (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=CASAN0VA,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=swXAeE0v,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-09-27T01:57:56.773+0000) > > Okay I understand your point, can I say this. If someone is toxic just give them a perma ban silence. And this game is popular, and playing an online game for fun with randoms strangers is a privilege is it not? Yes it is.. and if its chat you are so worried about for some players, just remove their chat. You dont know the person, you will probally never meet him and like you said you don't care about them. > > Team game with no real social connection, so why have a chat. And why is this chat so emphasized on getting people banned when it can just be removed. Because the game heavily relies on communication and teamwork? It's a competetive game and one which they want taken seriously given their all-in on esports and trying to further that as mainstream. "Team game with no real social connection" is an absurd concept to me, that's completely contrary to itself. I do think a perma ban silence is a good idea however, I dont disagree with that, I am a firm believer that you should just ignore people if they are flaming you, however quite frankly I don't speak for the world and other people think that is just as egregious an offence as running it down mid. Plus, you typically only mute people in response to something being said, and at that point something negative has been said, a nerve may have been struct, a game / day might have been ruined by that point. Also, while I strongly disagree that playing the game is a 'privilege', if I were to go along with that line of thought and say it is a privilege to be playing it, then why should people be tolerated who ruin the experience for other people? If it's a 'privilege' that implies it is for people deserving of it. But to answer your question, "why is this chat so emphasized on getting people banned", I can only answer that for myself - Because I dont want to play with people who just poison the game and community. I brought a friend into the game a couple of months ago and literally every single game they played had the team just crying and screaming at one another the entire game, and he from the outside had a moment where he asked me what the F was wrong with the community. Not all of us want league to be associated with insipid vitriol, and if reporting people when they step out of line is how we do our part to fix it, then we will do it. *Shrugs*
"Because the game heavily relies on communication and teamwork?" This is a fallacy, especially considering the message from the top is to just "mute and move on" in the face of toxicity anyways. People are muting eachother left and right. Not to mention the new ping system you can communicate literally anything you need to with use of pings. Most people are completely silent in most games anyways and almost never use the chat- especially games where there is no toxicity. The most common use of chat is to troll or chat about off topic things. You will not reduce toxicity by banning accounts that are mildly toxic. They will make new accounts with a grudge and a vengeance. In the long term this band-aid is going to build resentment in the community. "Not all of us want league to be associated with insipid vitriol, and if reporting people when they step out of line is how we do our part to fix it, then we will do it. " You can mute too, hey? Nobody wants this. I started playing this game a long time ago, and I only started being negative in the last year or so, because in the face of so much un-checked negativity and flaming, I eventually started retaliating. People won't throw away an account they spent thousands of $$ on just because they can't troll or flame in chat (in light of a perma-chatban)- they are more likely to enjoy the game how it's supposed to be instead, and MAYBE one day even actually reform. They might make a new account to troll and flame in chat, but they'd do that if they got the account fully banned anyways. Ban people for what they've done wrong and give them the avenues to get better. This system is half-assed and lazy.
CASAN0VA (NA)
: Please explain this to me.....
Don't worry, Chermorg will come in here any minute and quote some Riot stats about how they tried this and all the players just resorted to physical trolling instead, so it wasn't worth the effort, so they just moved to permabans. I'm with you. I don't buy Riot's story, and it demonstrates this weird pseudo lack of responsibility they are taking for this. They pretend they are combating toxicity, but they are just doing what is convenient and it does nothing to address or stem the problem.
Segius (NA)
: Seriously stop, nobody liked the old system, it was absolutely useless garbage, anyways you said yourself that you "had a bit without playing" maybe your friends are only toxic in the games when you're with them? The fact of the matter is that the honor system has improved x10 it also resets every season so that once the season ends you have to work for it again The other system was a useless pile of "honors" that no one used
I mean I guess when you compare it to a literal useless pile of shit, then yeah the new one is ok? The point OP is making, is that the "honour" system isn't tied to honour at all. It just happens if you dodge the hilarious negativity detectors. It doesn't encourage positive play, because people have figured out- you can't honour someone on the other team who was helpful or friendly, you get to choose one player at the end, and everyone always without fail just chooses the one with the best game play. Even if they were mildly toxic. The honour system should be tied to a positive "report" system or something. Where a positive "report" triggers chat logs to get filtered the same way they are for negativity, except it looks for positive helpful language, and awards a point if confirmed. Also allow people to give it to as many players and whichever players they want again, on either team.
: A former friend of mine got temp banned and only raged harder for it
This illustrates why indiscriminate banning does nothing to solve the problem of toxicity. It's more likely to make the experience worse for new players who will get the brunt of the alt account shenanigans. If Riot was serious about toxicity and combating it, they'd put in a more thoughtful "reform" system that actually encouraged reform on an account, rather than this behaviour you describe here.
Chermorg (NA)
: Riot tried escalating chat penalties before, and some people ended up with thousands of games on chat restriction. What Riot found is that people either stopped playing and moved to new accounts, or they resorted to gameplay trolling such as trolling, griefing, or intentionally feeding when they couldn't express their frustration in chat. For this reason, Riot simply permanently suspends accounts who show they are unable or unwilling to reform.
Ugh here comes chermorg... I just made a post about this last week (I think). Your generic Riot history lesson doesn't say why this is a fair system. It also leaves out things like stats on how many resorted to gameplay negativity. Because most people I talk to, myself included, never engage in that and never aim to hurt anyone or ruin anyone's gaming experience. This "one punishment" system that lumps people like me in with people like you describe, simply isn't fair. It's a lazy system.
: Not trying to condone flaming, but I thought my logs were pretty funny and edgy so I'm sharing them.
Ugh. And I got permabanned for the shit I said?? This guy slingin homophopbic slurs like no tomorrow. Trust me, they WILL permaban you, it'll take about a month if this is your first chat ban :D You can get perma for waaaay less than this.
: How to do more than report?
Yeah if only the report system wasn't flooded and conflated with "offenders" using tame banter with eachother. My biggest issue is that someone who calls someone a noob every game is put on the same level as someone who uses serious racial slurs or is extremely offensive. So the report system never feels worthwhile because of the bogus reporting that goes on and is entertained by the system. Feels bad man.
TheDenz (NA)
: Proper way to deal with trolls/ragers...?
Yeah the rules around what's bannable are weird as hell in this game. Whatever you do, don't try to engage with them as another human being and try to reason with them- you're more likely to get banned than they are, especially if it's physical trolling.
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: Tell me, do you know what fascism really is? Because you seem to throw that word around a lot without really knowing what it is. Fascism, in its most simple definition is the belief of absolute controll of the people. You say that Riot quells all forms of dissent, yet every day on these forums you can see dissent, and noone getting silenced. Ignoring a person, is not a control of anything, it is not fascist. And again, you are factually incorrect. Riot does not allow feeding OR raging. There are RULES against that. By definition, they do not allow people to commit these actions otherwise they will face punishment. I do not really have to resort to snide attacks, jsut because your arguments are so shallow, unsupported and even factually incorrect. Anyone could refute the things you just said, like i did.
That doesn't refute anything. You strawmanned my analogy of the way Riot deals with the problem to fascism. The way they deal with it, is pretty fascist. Yes I understand what fascism is. Anyways, this is way beyond the scope of my original point which was that the way riot handles people who don't agree with their strange 1 sided ideals, is by silencing and removing them. Like what happened with Monte and his teams, they targeted a guy because they didn't like him, not because he broke any magic rules. Teams are "breaking" those "rules" left and right and they don't do crap because they're all family- the people in charge of the leagues didn't even have any relevant experience.
: Ability Update: Xin Zhao
Hey referring to him as faceroll is pretty offensive to people who play him. Reported.
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: How nice to quote the 1/3 of your sentence and ommit the rest of it. My sentence is a response to your statement, and it has everything to do with it. If you lack comprehension, that is not my problem.
"Same reason they went off on a vendetta against Monte- they will never admit mistakes, and they want everyone to be little sheepies following all their rules. Which is fine until you have fascist rules." Point still stands. Sorry you have to resort to snide attacks to make a "point". Since you seem to lack comprehension, I'll lay it out for you. Riot is fascist. They quell all forms of dissent and disagreement by silencing them and ignoring it ever happened. You see, you can disagree and have a discussion about it, but Riot isn't into that. My statement wasn't about "not allowing feeding and raging is really fascist of Riot", because they do allow this, and their half-assed excuse for a "reform" system, isn't that, it just promotes the most toxic to keep coming back instead of punishing based on the crime. See some other posts of mine if you are actually curious to learn more- good day.
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: Yes, not allowing feeding and raging is really fascist of Riot. /s
"Same reason they went off on a vendetta against Monte- they will never admit mistakes" So what you said actually had nothing to do with what I said... why even bother responding with this generic yesman stuff then? Reply to someone else's comment with a point that makes sense.
: Nope, you just don't like hearing responses that doesn't agree with you. This is the typical response from the last 1000+ punished players whose threads we've responded to. And yes, chat restrictions & 14 days suspensions were already considered "warnings" & "2nd chances". I suggest you watch your own behavior if you plan to keep this account.
Ugh. You could spin what you said directly around on to yourself and it has the same weight as a "point" in a discussion. The issue is really the thin ice and how sensitive the system is. You don't ever have to engage in anything nearly as offensive or negative as "kys" or slurs to get put on that ice and have an account banned. That's the point he's made repeatedly. He is acknowledging what he did was wrong, YOU just don't like the responses that don't agree with you maybe..
: > [{quoted}](name=AriCei,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=aEWMvUFi,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-09-20T00:40:58.876+0000) > > Aha treating you like an adult. No that is not the case. > > I only partially agree with the OP, because I am ALSO against homophobic and racial slurs as well- you know, actual hurtful/hateful things whether used in understanding or not. > > However, similarly to his point, calling people noobs, or even shit, in some circles, is pretty acceptable. This isn't a job. It's meant to be a community, you know, of friends? Friends can call each other meaningless names all the time as banter. > > In the "real world", in the context of a GAME, there are certain things that are pretty socially accepted compared to a job. Riot's system has forgotten this. > > SO, while yes, please don't resort to actual hateful speech, people need to grow up a bit themselves if they can't handle being called a noob. Which yes, is a bannable offence as well if done enough times. > > The system is way too out of touch and harsh when it comes to banter. There IS a chat filter and muting for a reason. Temp/Perma bans on accounts don't need to be thrown around indiscriminately against semi-abrasive social interactions. It's annoying. If you can't stop being annoying, you shouldn't play multiplayer games.
Look at the title of this very thread to gain some perspective. YOU can mute if it's annoying you. Not everyone is annoyed by it, and at best SOME are annoyed by it. Most could care less. But the system reads 1 report the same as 9, so if one person gets their panties in a twist about something completely acceptable in most circles, it CAN and DOES lead to permabans.
Beas7ie (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=AriCei,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=k8atnmbu,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000200000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-09-19T21:57:10.236+0000) > > "In RL do the police just stand by and let anyone who isn't a superpowered alien from another planet or a billionaire with fanciest equipment and years of combat and stealth training just dish out their own vigilante justice so long as "the other guy did it first"?" > > In 'RL' do the police give you a lifetime sentence for this kind of hilariously tame ranting? Even if it's your 9129576387th "offence" ? Depending on the country and regime, they may just kill you on the spot for just the first offense. Slippery slope. Back to the game. The latest rants were somewhat "tame", but you did worse stuff before over and over again repeatedly and repeatedly and completely ignored warnigs. Playing League isn't a right, it's a privilege. Things like "Freedom of Speech" and what not don't really apply here. You have agreed to the TOS that you would follow the rules and failure to do so could result in penalties up to a permaban. Seeing as how we have gone past spoonfeeding this info to you and have already used IV to inject the information in you, and you still don't get it, I'm leaving this thread after this post as at this point you are either beyond all help or trolling. I highly recommend NOT making a new game account if you can't follow the rules and behave halfway decently. Try other games. You can rant and rage all you want over there. Riot has made it clear that's not welcome here. These are their rules, not mine.
A: there's no 3rd party here and Riot has a vested interest in making those stats up. B: they are irrelevant anyways if we are discussing in the context of the system not achieving what it actually needs to. You do not have to be horrendously negative, just semi consistently. I had a lot of stress in my life over the last 6 months or so, and I'd come on to league to chill, and someone would be a massive troll or asshole, and i'd snap. It took me very little time to progress through the tiers to a permanent ban, with little time or direction for reflection in between. And I never once uttered a slur or any hateful insults. I never once inted. I never once trolled. It is also not crystal clear unless you read up on the changes or read the whole fkn ToS- which is fair, but my issue really is that the result is wrong whether or not their rules justify it.
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AriCei

Level 30 (NA)
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