: So here are my thoughts + a little guide from me as someone who has played quite a lot of Ahri games and spams her all the time even in top lane when i don't get mid. Lich Bane > Old LudenS Echo Lich Bane 80 AP 7% Movement Speed 250 Mana 10% CDR *Sheen effect - 75% Base damage + 50% AP on basic attack after using an ability (1,5 second cooldown) Now this sheen effect gives you more burst and is why i used to rush it as a second item to let me kill anyone at low health in one fast combo. Ahri pre 8.8 didn't have too much damage and needed burst items in her build because if you miss charm you probably won't be able to finish off a target if he isn't really low on health. Old Luden Echo 100 AP 10% Movement Speed Wave Clear effect - at 100 stacks the next ability that hits a unit will deal 100 (+10% AP) which is not that much Gives you a bit of wave clear but it's not that good honestly and i never bought it because it was so useless in my opinion. Sheen effect with 500 AP will be something like 300 damage on your next basic attack after using ability and when you use your dashes you can actually proc it like at least 2 times which is a lot of additional damage which Ahri desperately needed. Old Ludens Echo gave extra 20 AP over Lich Bane but 20 AP is nothing simply because Ahri's AP ratios aren't high at all and it's not woth at all. Ahri needs early Mana (Charm level 1 is 85 mana which is kinda insanely high because it is a skill shot that can be blocked by minions and even if it hits at level 1 it only lasts for 1 second), CDR and Movement Speed. Lich Bane was my old second item rush on Ahri. Honestly I started to build Ahri in a different way the more experienced i became and the Q movement speed became more than enough mobility for me to not need Lich Bane's 7% movement speed early although the 10% CDR is so good to be able to spam abilities as well as the 250 extra mana. NOTE - People who play Ahri as a poke champ instead of an assassin will 100% prefer Old Ludens Echo because they don't go close enough to hit a basic attack on their target when in a fight or at least not that often. Gunblade: 80 AP 40 Damage Heal Effect - 15% of damage dealt heals you (5% for Area of effect abilities) Active Effect - Deals 175-250 (at levels 1-18) (+30% of ability power) magic damage and slows the target champion instantly by 40% for 2 seconds (40 second cooldown) Now Gunblade is one of my favorite items to build on Ahri because if you're low on health all you need to do is hit 1 time Q and W on a minion wave and you're at full health and with your passive you have some amazing sustain. Also the Active deals really nice damage and combined with Lich Bane you get even more burst which again Ahri needed because her kit didn't give her enough damage to 100 to 0 someone. With does 2 items Ahri can one-shot champions easily and she doesn't need to hit her charm all the time. But Ahri used to be safe and now she isn't so i only build those items like last one. Honestly I'm probably the only Ahri player that also doesn't build magic penetration items at all. I used to build Liandry's Torment which had 15 magic penetration and voidstaff when the enemy team had a lot of Magic Resist, but honestly after so many Ahri games i can legit say i'll probably never buy magic penetration item again on this champion simply because Ahri doesn't need it that much. Ahri is an assassin that destroys squishy champs like mages and adcs and not a tank melter but with what i usually build i still can chunk tanks quite hard without magic pen. Best build for me personally is this: 1. Defensive boots (always) 2. NEW Hextech GLP - 800 3. NEW Liandry's Torment 4. Rabadon's Deathcap 5. Lich Bane 6. Mejai's Soulstealer / Gunblade / Zhonya's Hourglass / Banshee's Veil (Depends if i'm snowballing with Mejai's or if the game is super tough and i need more burst / defence Every single Ahri player i've seen goes for Magic Penetration boots and this is what kills them so often - they get 1 shot by enemy champs so easily... 25 Magic Resist + % CC Resist / 20 Armor + some % basic attack damage reduction is so much better especially mid / late game. Also Magic pen is useless in my opinion Hextech GLP - 800 - now i used to build the NEW Luden's Echo because the wave clear felt nice but this item is just better because again - it is an assassin item and i'll always play Ahri as one and not a kite mage. The Active is really good when you get used to using it because not everyone is comfortable using actives during a fight and it takes some getting used to. Build path is amazing because you get the revolver as second item which gives you more burst with its passive. Liandry's as second item simply because it makes your poke better when the laning phase is over and team fights start to happen a lot. It gives you burn effect on all your abilites and is really good against squishy champs and also tanks (it burns them for a % of their current health). Also if you're in an extended fight it gives you up to 10% more damage the longer you're in combat with champions which is again really cool simply because even your ultimate which doesn't deal much damage will burn enemies and deal extra damage. So even if you kite with Q you will deal extra damage every time you hit something. All ins are a lot stronger too. Also 300 health is quite nice and you're no longer that squishy yourself. Build path is nice too. Rabadon's - Must be the 3rd item to get the power spike Ahri needs in AP. I used to build it like last item with the old Ahri but it was quite late to be honest. Lich Bane - To get to 40% CDR faster because you just need the CDR... If you miss charm then you have to wait quite a bit if you don't have it on lowest cooldown possible and also the more ults you have - the better so you can all in or escape easily. Of course burst too... Last item is situational - More burst + sustain / defence / snowballing with mejai's... NOTE - If you're snowballing hard and it's late game with 6 items and you don't let your enemies get close to you to kill you - you can sell boots for Spellbinder (100 AP + 10% movement speed) and if you have 15+ stacks on Mejai's and Lich Bane, then you should have a little over 400 movement speed which is more than enough on Ahri. Just play safe and let your team soak all the CC and high damage abilities from your opponents and just try to hit charm on the main damage dealer to make him useless and let your team kill him immediately or finish off any squishy adc or mage that is out of position with a smooth all in with ult + flash. Also if anyone is wondering why i don't buy magic pen - simply because you already have TRUE damage on the second part of your Q and it evens out the damage you would do if you didn't have that in your kit but you had magic pen. Also there is simply no space in my build for magic pen items and they also don't give you the nice effects that all other items provide. And last but not least - your Q is your main damage so if already have TRUE damage in it why would you need magic penetration at all? Especially if you're kiting a lot there is no point when you have the burn damage from Liandry's that synergies so well with your charm and Hextech GLP 800 because both of them are slows / cc and the burn effect doubles its damage on cc-ed targets... Same goes for Gunblade active... so much more damage because of the slow. NOTE - HEXTECH GLP 800 and Gunblade is kind of tricky because you will have 2 actives instead of 1 and if you use 1 of the 2 the other one will immediately go on cooldown too even without using it. But if you can handle 2 actives it's pretty cool because you can choose what effect you want to use - point and click burst with a bigger slow duration but only on a single target or a lesser burst skill shot that slows for less time but can hit multiple targets (and you can also use it as a clear effect on camps or minions instead of waiting for a 2nd Q. Well writing all that down took longer than i expected... but if it helps anyone than i guess it's worth the time spent. If you have any questions then simply ask. {{champion:103}}
Honest to god, haven't played the game in months, so I am now finally getting into the game again. Reading what you have said, albeit months ago, I will heavily consider your what you suggest, especially considering I am getting back into the game. Points I will give credit: Magic Pen. It was an interesting thought you proposed, about Ahri not needing Magic Pen. Partly because her Q does true damage, so does no good, but also because Ahri is supposed to be played as an assassin, and with her E giving her 20% additional damage for the next 5 seconds on that target, I see where you are coming from. Although, I have fought against mages who build Banshee's and marksmen with Maw of Mal so I do question that, I can always adopt to an opponent's build if I feel like magic resist is that much of an issue everywhere else on my kit. Boots. I truly like the boots idea, something I myself have done on occasion with defense. I can certainly adopt that into my play more often. Lich Bane. I understand. It is something I do with Orianna anyway, so I get where you are coming from with this item. In addition, Sheen proc in Lich Bane scales off of AP as well as AD (Well base AD but specifics), so she can hurt more with her autos and keep that damage going. (I still think DPS is not the correct phrase but I have no complaints) Rabadon's Death Cap. Getting Rabadon's Death Cap mid game rather than late is different. Something I would not really do, mainly because it is an expensive item and who wants to delay that much in damage. I see the potential in it, however, I think one has to be playing well or be ahead for this to work. Being where everyone else is in terms of gold seems to be a big hold up. Your thoughts on that? And by third item, does that include boots? You say Liandries is second item, I do not see first item anywhere, so where do boots go. Here, I just would like a clarification on order. Gunblade. Gunblade is fun. No problems here aside from getting Bilgewater Cutlass, a useless item on Ahri where the active and maybe the lifesteal, maybe, are the only aspects of it not wasted. The only item here I am confused with is your Hextech GLP 800. I get Gunblade, no question, but wouldn't Hextech Protobelt be better? Getting a fourth dash for Ahri is nice, especially since her ult should have a similar cooldown to her ult. I actual do get Protobelt often, which is why using item actives is no biggie for me, but just wondering your opinion here. Granted i have not tried GLP 800 after its rework on its active but I still would like to know why this preference? The slow yes, but more so on why not Protbelt. Since these past few months. have there been any changes to your build suggestion? Those things aside, I liked your commentary. I will consider your playstyle and build for consideration. Though I think I will just have two builds, an assassin build for when things are going okay and better and a kiting mage when I am behind. Thank you for your suggestions.
: Officially Boycotting Riot Games
It is unfortunate that not only what Riot Games has allowed to have happened, but this is where gaming is going: allowing sexist, anti-male rhetoric and we, the players, the consumers, are supposed to simply accept it. It is saddening that Riot is becoming part of the problem that no one on wants.
: Edited my comment: So here is the problem - Ahri needs to hit her Charm (E) to do real damage. Q's movement speed removal made Ahri: - Feel VERY Slow - Harder to dodge skills shots - Unable to chase someone without R or early boots + movement speed item and / or runes for movement speed... People complained that Ahri was weak simply because they didn't really play her good enough and most likely didn't even build her the right way... I mean how many people actually used to build Lich Bane on Ahri? Perfect assassin item for a champ like her as well as Gunblade. More than enough DPS and burst to make her strong when she is ahead. Instead people used to build Luden's echo LOL which is just a clear item and not an assassin item at all. Nothing but Movement speed and AP where Ahri needs early CDR, DPS, mana and Movement speed (and Lich Bane has it all). With the right build you have more than enough damage to kill any squishy. Ahri is not a Syndra or a Le blank to 1 shot people. It actually takes some skill to land everything. You can't play 50 games with a champ and complain that it sucks because you don't have enough experience. Ahri is not a tank killer as well. Ahri WAS balanced and only bad Ahri players complained. Instead of taking away her Q movement speed and chase potential and roaming potential RIOT only had to change her W a bit and give it some damage. I want to play old Ahri and not this immobile champion that Riot created. I also main Ahri ( 200 k) and play her just because i loveD her kit... mobile and not broken. Now it's ruined! Revert Ahri please!
> [{quoted}](name=23DarkShadow23,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hwZVfc13,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-19T17:15:42.257+0000) > > People complained that Ahri was weak simply because they didn't really play her good enough and most likely didn't even build her the right way... I mean how many people actually used to build Lich Bane on Ahri? Perfect assassin item for a champ like her as well as Gunblade. More than enough DPS and burst to make her strong when she is ahead. Instead people used to build Luden's echo LOL which is just a clear item and not an assassin item at all. Nothing but Movement speed and AP where Ahri needs early CDR, DPS, mana and Movement speed (and Lich Bane has it all). With the right build you have more than enough damage to kill any squishy. Question: Was it wrong to build her with Luden's Echo? It may be a clear item but it still provided more AP than the other items you suggest. I am not criticizing, just asking. Also, what do you mean by DPS? Damage per second, yes? What do you mean that is what she needs and Lich Bane and GuneBlade provided that? Just want some clarification.
DNFVixen (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Disembark,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hinbt77N,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-01-27T14:36:31.260+0000) > > If you've seen me around the boards, you might know that I usually defend Riot and their decisions - because I think they do a good job and don't get enough credit. > > However, ever since last mid-season I've been slowly playing less and less, and having less fun watching competitive. I mean I remember first half of last season I'd grind SoloQ in my free-time, and wake up 4 AM on SKT or KT days to watch LCK. Now I'll just watch highlights, and I can digest Bo1s in the background. I barely play ranked anymore (just placements this season) > > I think that Riot has made the game less **fun** over the years. I will not say the game is "less balanced" because I honestly don't think so. Maybe the game has evolved into something different, but I think the game is just a lot less fun. But it wasn't until very recently (mid season 7) and now season 8 where it started going drastically downhill. > > It would be REALLY easy for me to jump on the ADC hate train and be like "OP for 7 seezons Rito nerf plz" but I don't think that's the problem - the game was VERY fun for me season 5/6/half of 7 and we still had ADCs there. It'd be easy for me to say "tunk meta rito nerf" let's not kid ourselves, tanks are always gonna be a good pick and LS explained why "tank metas" will never end - but that's not what makes it unfun (tanks should be a good, safe pick - but not top tier). It's something _untangible_, like I can't put it into words exactly - but I will try. > > **Disclaimer:** I'm not saying it was _perfect_ before, but I **enjoyed it** a hell of a lot more. I find that it isn't crit that is the problem when it comes to adcs or even ad champions, the reason why the game went downhill fast is the leathality update, after the introduction of leathality a lot of the strategy about ad early and lategame champions went out the window. Think about it, bruisers started just stacking leathality and going assassin because it made going through armor a lot more easier, ad assassins just shred everything WAY earlier, and ADCs are now stacking leathality themselves for the same reason. There was a huuuge post by a diamond rank toplaner who went into full details about why leathality is ruining the game he even explained how leathaity destroyed the early game late game aspect of AD champions and how they only scale now. Tell me when you go into champion select when picking an AD champion do you even think "this is an early game champion they will scale early but die off late game" or "this is a late game champion they will be weak early and scale hard late game"? No not unless you are playing someone like talon or zed, even then they don't fall off they just have to play safer late game due to grouping. The main culprit of shit going down since preseason is the new runesystem, it did nothing but give a SHIT TON of free damage, i am not talking about a small amount of free damage I am talking a TON of free damage that only gets worse as you get more kills/assists thus helping the player snowball even harder. The last 2 years have had TERRIBLE things done to league that have steadily ruined the game for a lot of the playerbase. Last year the ammount of thinking involved with league went downhill, after the runeupdate there is 0 fucking thinking involved with league.
> [{quoted}](name=Gentle Lynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hinbt77N,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-01-27T15:53:55.246+0000) > > I find that it isn't crit that is the problem when it comes to adcs or even ad champions, the reason why the game went downhill fast is the leathality update, after the introduction of leathality a lot of the strategy about ad early and lategame champions went out the window. Think about it, bruisers started just stacking leathality and going assassin because it made going through armor a lot more easier, ad assassins just shred everything WAY earlier, and ADCs are now stacking leathality themselves for the same reason. There was a huuuge post by a diamond rank toplaner who went into full details about why leathality is ruining the game he even explained how leathaity destroyed the early game late game aspect of AD champions and how they only scale now. Tell me when you go into champion select when picking an AD champion do you even think "this is an early game champion they will scale early but die off late game" or "this is a late game champion they will be weak early and scale hard late game"? No not unless you are playing someone like talon or zed, even then they don't fall off they just have to play safer late game due to grouping. > > The main culprit of shit going down since preseason is the new runesystem, it did nothing but give a SHIT TON of free damage, i am not talking about a small amount of free damage I am talking a TON of free damage that only gets worse as you get more kills/assists thus helping the player snowball even harder. > > The last 2 years have had TERRIBLE things done to league that have steadily ruined the game for a lot of the playerbase. Last year the ammount of thinking involved with league went downhill, after the runeupdate there is 0 fucking thinking involved with league. I whole-heartedly agree with lethality. I despised lethality, it made me just quit mid for the first half of the season. I got tired of Jayce or Quinn coming down from top and destroying me faster than I could them. It was frustrating to see that burst on fighter, I had no choice but to only play Ahri due to her mobility saying screw that, but then everyone started to ban her because she was good against all this. Ehh... But as for the crit... ehh. I do think crit is a problem with marksmen in that it is their version of a burst per second, especially with Infinity Edge {{item:3031}} . Being killed within 5 autos is annoying, it is a target, undodge-able (Hi Jax) basic attack losing roughly a fifth of my HP from that is not fun. With abilities, aside point-and-clicks, you can dodge/miss, lowering damage. And actually, I commonly do think that when I see Tris she is going to be weak early but strong late game, and I would act accordingly to help us-- usually kill her as much as possible to prevent her growth. But it usually didn't matter with lethality, yes, but I do still look at champions like that-- though I will admit to no longer thinking of champions like Zed for falling off. Anyway, I do believe I saw that post of the diamond player saying that. Could you find the link and post it here? Be very much appreciated.
Kai Guy (NA)
: @Adc disscussions,Why does no one talk about jungle?
> [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3amz1z9N,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-08-30T00:46:30.190+0000) > I think that if we really want to have a healthy discussion about game state health and changing viability of comps to be wider we will really need to look at all roles and their impact. I feel jungle is the primary reason for the 1 1 2 lane setup meta. > > > Thoughts? Well if you want to talk about impact, I can provide an analysis of that. Nothing big, nothing revolutionary, but not commonly thought of. _Mid Laners_ Mid laners are home to the burst champions. They are the Queens and Kings for looking at a champion and making their health bar go from Green to Empty in a short time frame. Assassins do this better than mages but in turn, mages have crowd control that can be useful to their team, such as stuns, roots, slows and the like. In team fights, the mid laner's goal is to use all of their resources on whoever is the biggest threat on the enemy team. If the enemy top laner is the biggest threat, mid should wait for some good timing to use everything they can to get their health down or kill them. The mid laner's position is the "mid guard" (is there such a position?). They are not in the front lines where they could get picked off by a crowd control ability or engaged by the enemy tank but they are not in the back lines where they can't use one of their common abilities, usually Q, to do decent/moderate damage to the enemy front liners or farther. They should be behind the tank and fighter but in front of the support and marksmen. Quick response to a team fight starting but not be initiated upon, really. _Top Laners_ The top laners role have changed over the seasons, from win top to win the game to now being ehh... but the top laners role typical depends on who they are. Their job is either to be a front liner combatant, be it a tank or fighter, or a lane pressure generator, usually both in higher levels of play. When generating pressure, if possible, it is sometimes better for the top laner to either continue pushing top or bot when possible, forcing an enemy player, players, or the entire team to stop pushing and address the top laner pushing down their tower or lose it and possibly have it as potential lane to their base. From the new found attention the top laner has, that team can now get objects, such as dragon or another tower with so much attention being place on the top laner. This tactic is know as splitpushing. As previously mentioned, top laners are in the front line. Now there is a difference between Malphite "Front line" and Riven "Front line," the latter needs to be safer while still being in the front lines; the former needs to be a threat in terms of the very second he sees fit, he will engage. There is a difference between a Juggernaut or Tank front lines role versus a damaging front line role so lets go into both. **Juggernaut/Tank** They are the front liners who, when they see fit, will engage and start a team fight and use their crowd control to inconvenience the enemy. More so tanks, juggernauts deal more damage in turn for less crowd control and usually no engaging ability. **Fighters** They are in the front line who usually waits for a very poor positioning on the enemy team, teammate to engage, or waits for the enemy to engage, since they can't themselves, and since they have a lot of damage, they always try to go for whoever they too also feel is a threat but due to their range limitation, may not always be able to do it but they try to when safe and possible. _Junglers_ The junglers purpose is to: 1) Maximize gold and experience income by going to the jungle and take those resources. 2) Assist their team by ganking for them in attempt to get an edge for their teammate and put the enemy behind. 3) Be the shot callers in getting Dragon, Baron, Rift Herald (I guess) and competing for it whenever possible. Aside from point three, the jungler's role is more early game orientated rather than the later portions of the game. Mid game, they still go into the jungle to capitalize on gold and experience points but this is where, depending on the nature of the game, is where is starts to break down a bit. Say the top laner or marksmen taking camps because they have nothing to do or cannot go to lane. When it comes to team fights, they take up the position depending on their champion. Fighters-- front lines, be safe but prepared to follow up. Tanks-- front lines, initiate a team fight and provide crowd control. Mages-- Mid lane Marksmen-- Back lines, be safe. _Marksmen_ Marksmen are the dps, damage per second, class in the game. They are the constant damage source that ends up getting one killed if they completely forgo a champion in this class. They are meant to be the safest of the five champions by being in the back lines. Their focus is simply to keep auto attacking whoever is closest to them, never prioritizing whoever is the biggest threat on the enemy team. Due to their dps stature, they are weak and cannot easily fight back in 1v1 against the burst classes of assassins or mages, and the stronger damage of fighters. This weakness lasts until the late game where their damage is strong enough to fight back upon being attacked. As already mentioned, they are to be in the back lines, being safe and auto attacking the closest enemy within their reach since being killed is easy for they rely on outside stats like Life Steal to keep their health up whereas mages or fighters have some methods of crowd control or sustain to defend themselves. _Support_ Supports are one of the main sources of crowd control and the only sources of healing and/or shielding for one's team, aside from the specific champions of Orianna, Lux, Morgana or Karma mid. Their goal is to protect their allies whenever possible while, being safe, provide control to the enemy. They also are a huge source of vision. They are not the ONLY source of vision on a team, they shouldn't be, but their aim is to be a leader in that regards: providing and deny vision whenever possible. Early game is solely focused on their own marksmen, attempting to use their own crowd control to catch a kill for their marksmen while providing heals and shields to keep their marksmen and themselves alive. As mid to late game progresses, they still provide and deny vision, keep allies alive and hinder enemies with crowd control but they are allowed to focus on whoever they deem important on their team to focus exclusively on. Supports are a bit tricky on where they are located. Champions like Thresh, Braum, Leona, Blitcrank or Taric are in the front lines, usually behind the tank but ahead of the fighter because they have crowd control. More aggressive, non-tank supports, like Nami, Morgana, or Lux are in the mid guard. Behind mages or assassins but still in front of the marksmen. More passive and protective supports like Janna or Soraka should be next to the marksmen, in the back lines, safely healing and shielding allies, while still stepping forward hindering opponents with their crowd control. That is really all there is to say about the roles. I didn't really divided into class or sub-class specifics but I mention what the importance of each role offers to this game. I am aware I did not mention about the gameplay aside from the roles positioning, which is fine; I wanted to focus on the impact or importance of each role. As for the 1-1-2 set-up, I mentioned it but I did not explain it. "The junglers purpose is to: 1) Maximize gold and experience income by going to the jungle and take those resources." Confused? Allow me to explain. Which is better: I) Have a duo top lane with their own little partnership going on and competing for cs and dividing experience points in half such as bot lane or II) Have a solo top laner responsible for all minions top and have someone go to the jungle and get those resources for their own use? The junglers allow top lane (maybe mid depending on the META, who knows) to be a solo lane and not be another duo. This allows for gold to be spread and capitalizes on experience points. That answers the question why junglers are, well, junglers. I didn't go into a huge explanation but I hope you all can understand. I hope my analysis of the roles were to everyone's approval. If not, feel free to comment. Just note that I was analyzing their roles in the intended META, not how they are currently played, such as marksmen being way stronger than I gave them credit for in their section of the analysis. That aside, I hope everyone has a good day, best of luck in having a non-toxic match and of course, have fun. --Ark Sorcerer
: This game is such a fucking joke sometimes..
I get it. From a mid lane mage perspective, I see where you are coming from. I actually haven't mid so often because of the Lethality introduction and the strength a lot of characters have because of what you are somewhat talking about.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ark Sorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xoLhrGs7,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2017-08-12T16:02:09.227+0000) > > That sounds exceptional strong. The idea that he can back off in lane and just 'forge' an item from the shop, is enough to make him headache due to him not needing to recall for items. Unless this is a cooldown ability with like 7 minutes, that is way too strong. The cooldown is like 4 or 7 seconds lol
> [{quoted}](name=JustBeinTacosBro,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xoLhrGs7,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-13T08:21:27.969+0000) > > The cooldown is like 4 or 7 seconds lol Hmm? I will waiting for Riot to keep nerfing this guy for months after his initial release, like Camille.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ark Sorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xoLhrGs7,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-08-08T00:31:28.771+0000) > > Honestly, I am a bit concern. > > The Champion Reveal page (which I will post at the bottom) really concerns me about his passive. I am confuse what it means for him to forge weapons without recalling. > > Does he *actually* just sit back and forge Giant's Belt {{item:1011}} or Phage {{item:3044}} without needing to go to shop? Is it weapons specifically? So Phage but not Giant's Belt? I feel like, in that regards his lane sustain is strong because he does not need to recall to get items, not because he gains health back like Trundle but due to him not dying for the first 7 minutes, he can back off, get an item, and fight with MORE power without pressing B then teleport. > > There are also special weapons. What are these special weapons? Info that will be release during his champion spotlight (aside from YouTubers with PBE accounts) but until then, I am a bit scared of how customized they are for the laner he is facing against. What items does he posses that no one else can gain access to and how strong will they make him? On top of that, his *allies* can also get special weapons: > > I am aware that it will require one of the six slots but how powerful are the items for player to get one of his weapons over the traditional slot? The stats? Passives? Cost? All these things come from Ornn, meaning that he is the reason why a champion is much more powerful due to an item HE provides. > > Honestly, it sounds like his passive should be taking a HUGE chunk of his power budget but I am wiling to bet it will not. He seems to me more of a team support guy: providing stronger items and Brittle. > > I do not mind the Brittle Crowd Control: > > I think having it on a top laner where the tank junglers, mid laners and supports could bounce on that can be fun. Except for those with Mercury's Treads {{item:3111}} . Decreases a CC by 30% only to have it negated with Brittle... what fun for those champions. However, it seems like he does not have anyway to assist with his own Brittle. He has a knock-up but I do not think that can count, seeing how Mercury Tread's don't reduce the time of a knock-up, I fail to see how the new Crowd Control can increase the time of a knock-up... > > With the mention of those two things alone, passive and Brittle, I feel like he is a Tank Primary class, Support Secondary class but I am concern more so about his damage. If his Q and E deals too much, W is current health, then he could be too strong. Which is odd seeing how RIOT Insists he starts the fight and is a late game champion. > > and > > Nasus is a Juggernaut, a sub-class of fighters that build tanky and do not need a lot of damage items. Ornn does not seem to be that way. I mention his passive seems to take a lot of his power budget, he can't interact with Brittle, and he seems more like a tank, with his W providing a shield. If Nasus is a god, that is fine, but I scare the comparison RIOT is trying to make. Speaking of Ornn's W, he ignores spell binding abilities like Morgana's Q? What? > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9FR8rWczvU > 6 second in. How do you *ignore* cc like that? What? I admit, on his Champion Reveal, it seems to be a quick ability, but he still moves! > > I think his Q and E are fine, obvious without ratios or cool down knowledge I say this. His R is half a lane width ult. I kinda think of it as a Nami ult. First Kayn and his Zed like ult now this? Everything else is different so whatever. Just being nit picky there. > > What is all of your opinions on this? Anything I miss? Am I over thinking something? Could I be wrong about him not being able to activate Brittle? Because it does look like an auto attack used the proc but the description says: > > Champion Reveal Page of Ornn: The Fire Below the Mounatin: > http://na.leagueoflegends.com/us/featured/champion-reveal-ornn?utm_source=LeagueClient&utm_medium=OverviewTier1 His Passive Means that he can open the shop anywhere on the map and purchase any item besides consumables and craft them anywhere on to the map wherever he may be. Also his special weapons a little more damage, health, etc. to the special items he has. And he can buy anything, If he has enough for a Warmongs Item {{item:3083}} then he can build that. If he is in Jungle and he wants to build his {{item:3706}} he can build Stalkers Blade it is only limited to consumables such as trinkets, wards, potions.
> [{quoted}](name=JustBeinTacosBro,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xoLhrGs7,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-08-12T14:26:13.067+0000) > > His Passive Means that he can open the shop anywhere on the map and purchase any item besides consumables and craft them anywhere on to the map wherever he may be. Also his special weapons a little more damage, health, etc. to the special items he has. And he can buy anything, If he has enough for a Warmongs Item {{item:3083}} then he can build that. If he is in Jungle and he wants to build his {{item:3706}} he can build Stalkers Blade it is only limited to consumables such as trinkets, wards, potions. That sounds exceptional strong. The idea that he can back off in lane and just 'forge' an item from the shop, is enough to make him headache due to him not needing to recall for items. Unless this is a cooldown ability with like 7 minutes, that is way too strong.
Sharjo (EUW)
: Champion Reveal: Ornn, the Fire Below the Mountain
Honestly, I am a bit concern. The Champion Reveal page (which I will post at the bottom) really concerns me about his passive. I am confuse what it means for him to forge weapons without recalling. >Living Forge: Ornn can spend gold to forge items for himself any time he's out of combat. For convenience, suggested items appear in a special on-screen menu. Ornn can also open the shop manually to build any item. > Does he *actually* just sit back and forge Giant's Belt {{item:1011}} or Phage {{item:3044}} without needing to go to shop? Is it weapons specifically? So Phage but not Giant's Belt? I feel like, in that regards his lane sustain is strong because he does not need to recall to get items, not because he gains health back like Trundle but due to him not dying for the first 7 minutes, he can back off, get an item, and fight with MORE power without pressing B then teleport. There are also special weapons. What are these special weapons? Info that will be release during his champion spotlight (aside from YouTubers with PBE accounts) but until then, I am a bit scared of how customized they are for the laner he is facing against. What items does he posses that no one else can gain access to and how strong will they make him? On top of that, his *allies* can also get special weapons: > Ornn and his teammates have access to special upgrades for select items in the shop. Each player is limited to one of these upgrades. > I am aware that it will require one of the six slots but how powerful are the items for player to get one of his weapons over the traditional slot? The stats? Passives? Cost? All these things come from Ornn, meaning that he is the reason why a champion is much more powerful due to an item HE provides. Honestly, it sounds like his passive should be taking a HUGE chunk of his power budget but I am wiling to bet it will not. He seems to me more of a team support guy: providing stronger items and Brittle. I do not mind the Brittle Crowd Control: >When Brittle, enemies suffer a portion of their maximum health as bonus damage when struck by immobilizing effects. Immobilizing effects also last longer when used on Brittle enemies. > I think having it on a top laner where the tank junglers, mid laners and supports could bounce on that can be fun. Except for those with Mercury's Treads {{item:3111}} . Decreases a CC by 30% only to have it negated with Brittle... what fun for those champions. However, it seems like he does not have anyway to assist with his own Brittle. He has a knock-up but I do not think that can count, seeing how Mercury Tread's don't reduce the time of a knock-up, I fail to see how the new Crowd Control can increase the time of a knock-up... With the mention of those two things alone, passive and Brittle, I feel like he is a Tank Primary class, Support Secondary class but I am concern more so about his damage. If his Q and E deals too much, W is current health, then he could be too strong. Which is odd seeing how RIOT Insists he starts the fight and is a late game champion. >Ornn is a leader on the battlefield. He initiates fights on his terms with Call of the Forge God, then charges in, bellowing and tearing apart his foes with titanic force. > and >Someone should tell Nasus there’s a new late-game god in town. > Nasus is a Juggernaut, a sub-class of fighters that build tanky and do not need a lot of damage items. Ornn does not seem to be that way. I mention his passive seems to take a lot of his power budget, he can't interact with Brittle, and he seems more like a tank, with his W providing a shield. If Nasus is a god, that is fine, but I scare the comparison RIOT is trying to make. Speaking of Ornn's W, he ignores spell binding abilities like Morgana's Q? What? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9FR8rWczvU 6 second in. How do you *ignore* cc like that? What? I admit, on his Champion Reveal, it seems to be a quick ability, but he still moves! I think his Q and E are fine, obvious without ratios or cool down knowledge I say this. His R is half a lane width ult. I kinda think of it as a Nami ult. First Kayn and his Zed like ult now this? Everything else is different so whatever. Just being nit picky there. What is all of your opinions on this? Anything I miss? Am I over thinking something? Could I be wrong about him not being able to activate Brittle? Because it does look like an auto attack used the proc but the description says: >When Brittle, enemies suffer a portion of their maximum health as bonus damage when struck by immobilizing effects. Immobilizing effects also last longer when used on Brittle enemies. > Champion Reveal Page of Ornn: The Fire Below the Mounatin: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/us/featured/champion-reveal-ornn?utm_source=LeagueClient&utm_medium=OverviewTier1
: Top 5 reasons why Ornn will be the best mid lane Riot has ever released
Honestly, I am a bit concern. I am not sure about him being a mid laner and all but looking at his design, there are a few things I worry. The Champion Reveal page (which I will post at the bottom) really concerns me about his passive. I am confuse what it means for him to forge weapons without recalling. >Living Forge: Ornn can spend gold to forge items for himself any time he's out of combat. For convenience, suggested items appear in a special on-screen menu. Ornn can also open the shop manually to build any item. > Does he *actually* just sit back and forge Giant's Belt {{item:1011}} or Phage {{item:3044}} without needing to go to shop? Is it weapons specifically? So Phage but not Giant's Belt? I feel like, in that regards his lane sustain is strong because he does not need to recall to get items, not because he gains health back like Trundle but due to him not dying for the first 7 minutes, he can back off, get an item, and fight with MORE power without pressing B then teleport. There are also special weapons. What are these special weapons? Info that will be release during his champion spotlight (aside from YouTubers with PBE accounts) but until then, I am a bit scared of how customized they are for the laner he is facing against. What items does he posses that no one else can gain access to and how strong will they make him? On top of that, his *allies* can also get special weapons: > Ornn and his teammates have access to special upgrades for select items in the shop. Each player is limited to one of these upgrades. > I am aware that it will require one of the six slots but how powerful are the items for player to get one of his weapons over the traditional slot? The stats? Passives? Cost? All these things come from Ornn, meaning that he is the reason why a champion is much more powerful due to an item HE provides. Honestly, it sounds like his passive should be taking a HUGE chunk of his power budget but I am wiling to bet it will not. He seems to me more of a team support guy: providing stronger items and Brittle. I do not mind the Brittle Crowd Control: >When Brittle, enemies suffer a portion of their maximum health as bonus damage when struck by immobilizing effects. Immobilizing effects also last longer when used on Brittle enemies. > I think having it on a top laner where the tank junglers, mid laners and supports could bounce on that can be fun. Except for those with Mercury's Treads {{item:3111}} . Decreases a CC by 30% only to have it negated with Brittle... what fun for those champions. However, it seems like he does not have anyway to assist with his own Brittle. He has a knock-up but I do not think that can count, seeing how Mercury Tread's don't reduce the time of a knock-up, I fail to see how the new Crowd Control can increase the time of a knock-up... With the mention of those two things alone, passive and Brittle, I feel like he is a Tank Primary class, Support Secondary class but I am concern more so about his damage. If his Q and E deals too much, W is current health, then he could be too strong. Which is odd seeing how RIOT Insists he starts the fight and is a late game champion. >Ornn is a leader on the battlefield. He initiates fights on his terms with Call of the Forge God, then charges in, bellowing and tearing apart his foes with titanic force. > and >Someone should tell Nasus there’s a new late-game god in town. > Nasus is a Juggernaut, a sub-class of fighters that build tanky and do not need a lot of damage items. Ornn does not seem to be that way. I mention his passive seems to take a lot of his power budget, he can't interact with Brittle, and he seems more like a tank, with his W providing a shield. If Nasus is a god, that is fine, but I scare the comparison RIOT is trying to make. Speaking of Ornn's W, he ignores spell binding abilities like Morgana's Q? What? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9FR8rWczvU 6 second in. How do you *ignore* cc like that? What? I admit, on his Champion Reveal, it seems to be a quick ability, but he still moves! I think his Q and E are fine, obvious without ratios or cool down knowledge I say this. His R is half a lane width ult. I kinda think of it as a Nami ult. First Kayn and his Zed like ult now this? Everything else is different so whatever. Just being nit picky there. What is all of your opinions on this? Anything I miss? Am I over thinking something? Could I be wrong about him not being able to activate Brittle? Because it does look like an auto attack used the proc but the description says: >When Brittle, enemies suffer a portion of their maximum health as bonus damage when struck by immobilizing effects. Immobilizing effects also last longer when used on Brittle enemies. > Champion Reveal Page of Ornn: The Fire Below the Mounatin: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/us/featured/champion-reveal-ornn?utm_source=LeagueClient&utm_medium=OverviewTier1
: Orrn Looks? What Do You Guys Think.
Honestly, I am a bit concern. The Champion Reveal page (which I will post at the bottom) really concerns me about his passive. I am confuse what it means for him to forge weapons without recalling. >Living Forge: Ornn can spend gold to forge items for himself any time he's out of combat. For convenience, suggested items appear in a special on-screen menu. Ornn can also open the shop manually to build any item. > Does he *actually* just sit back and forge Giant's Belt {{item:1011}} or Phage {{item:3044}} without needing to go to shop? Is it weapons specifically? So Phage but not Giant's Belt? I feel like, in that regards his lane sustain is strong because he does not need to recall to get items, not because he gains health back like Trundle but due to him not dying for the first 7 minutes, he can back off, get an item, and fight with MORE power without pressing B then teleport. There are also special weapons. What are these special weapons? Info that will be release during his champion spotlight (aside from YouTubers with PBE accounts) but until then, I am a bit scared of how customized they are for the laner he is facing against. What items does he posses that no one else can gain access to and how strong will they make him? On top of that, his *allies* can also get special weapons: > Ornn and his teammates have access to special upgrades for select items in the shop. Each player is limited to one of these upgrades. > I am aware that it will require one of the six slots but how powerful are the items for player to get one of his weapons over the traditional slot? The stats? Passives? Cost? All these things come from Ornn, meaning that he is the reason why a champion is much more powerful due to an item HE provides. Honestly, it sounds like his passive should be taking a HUGE chunk of his power budget but I am wiling to bet it will not. He seems to me more of a team support guy: providing stronger items and Brittle. I do not mind the Brittle Crowd Control: >When Brittle, enemies suffer a portion of their maximum health as bonus damage when struck by immobilizing effects. Immobilizing effects also last longer when used on Brittle enemies. > I think having it on a top laner where the tank junglers, mid laners and supports could bounce on that can be fun. Except for those with Mercury's Treads {{item:3111}} . Decreases a CC by 30% only to have it negated with Brittle... what fun for those champions. However, it seems like he does not have anyway to assist with his own Brittle. He has a knock-up but I do not think that can count, seeing how Mercury Tread's don't reduce the time of a knock-up, I fail to see how the new Crowd Control can increase the time of a knock-up... With the mention of those two things alone, passive and Brittle, I feel like he is a Tank Primary class, Support Secondary class but I am concern more so about his damage. If his Q and E deals too much, W is current health, then he could be too strong. Which is odd seeing how RIOT Insists he starts the fight and is a late game champion. >Ornn is a leader on the battlefield. He initiates fights on his terms with Call of the Forge God, then charges in, bellowing and tearing apart his foes with titanic force. > and >Someone should tell Nasus there’s a new late-game god in town. > Nasus is a Juggernaut, a sub-class of fighters that build tanky and do not need a lot of damage items. Ornn does not seem to be that way. I mention his passive seems to take a lot of his power budget, he can't interact with Brittle, and he seems more like a tank, with his W providing a shield. If Nasus is a god, that is fine, but I scare the comparison RIOT is trying to make. Speaking of Ornn's W, he ignores spell binding abilities like Morgana's Q? What? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9FR8rWczvU 6 second in. How do you *ignore* cc like that? What? I admit, on his Champion Reveal, it seems to be a quick ability, but he still moves! I think his Q and E are fine, obvious without ratios or cool down knowledge I say this. His R is half a lane width ult. I kinda think of it as a Nami ult. First Kayn and his Zed like ult now this? Everything else is different so whatever. Just being nit picky there. What is all of your opinions on this? Anything I miss? Am I over thinking something? Could I be wrong about him not being able to activate Brittle? Because it does look like an auto attack used the proc but the description says: >When Brittle, enemies suffer a portion of their maximum health as bonus damage when struck by immobilizing effects. Immobilizing effects also last longer when used on Brittle enemies. > Champion Reveal Page of Ornn: The Fire Below the Mounatin: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/us/featured/champion-reveal-ornn?utm_source=LeagueClient&utm_medium=OverviewTier1
Jamaree (NA)
: Yeaaaaaaah, telling you right now, that mindset isn't going to stay.
> [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=vbueAEjP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-08-07T04:11:25.952+0000) > > Yeaaaaaaah, telling you right now, that mindset isn't going to stay. It is not. How long do you think it will take? 200 more games? Less or more?
Limrick (NA)
: Blue Buff on your waveclear champ and Red Buff on the Marksman are just the most optimal people to have them, so it tends to lead to a bit of entitlement.
Kind of hard for marksmen to be "entitled" to red buff when they need to be on Blue Side to get it doing the laning phase. If you are referring after that point, say mid or late game, fine. Understandable. Then again, everyone goes in my jungle and do whatever, but it was late game so I never complained.
: It is usually later in the game when team fights are actively happening and jungle camps basically become free for all.
Oh. In that case, marksmen have always been taking my camps without permission. That is nothing new, and as long as I am not behind, I usually did not care. I thought this was the early game with the second or third spawn of the red buff.
: "I'm ADC give me Red buff"
May I be honest? This is the first time I have heard of this. Seasons past, mages and some assassins got blue buff because they are in the mid lane and be it on blue side or red side, they can get easy access, as well as they got the bonus of AP and mana regen. I am just confuse when marksmen getting red buff became a thing.
: > [{quoted}](name=Awhegark,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UR1LdjgR,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-08-05T00:19:24.200+0000) > > If they are getting ganked it is your job to counter gank, otherwise mid is just a 2 vs 1 lane in their favor why you AFK in the jungle. Learn to play the game. Unrank yeah tell someone how to play the game if you were Diamond maybe I would take it but at the same time even if you are Diamond you can't even read Talk about learning LOL
> [{quoted}](name=Kamehaamehaa,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UR1LdjgR,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-08-05T00:34:07.046+0000) > > Unrank yeah tell someone how to play the game > > if you were Diamond maybe I would take it but at the same time even if you are Diamond you can't even read > Talk about learning LOL Ad Hominem fallacy detected. What does rank have to do with this?
: > [{quoted}](name=ReySolomon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UR1LdjgR,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-08-05T00:42:39.969+0000) > > ? when did i say to please gank me? i solo no problem but if i see my jungler not getting drakes when the jungler is everywhere so whats up? What that Unrank dude said. "Learn the game" LOL
> [{quoted}](name=Kamehaamehaa,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UR1LdjgR,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-05T00:45:29.782+0000) > > What that Unrank dude said. > > "Learn the game" LOL Ad Hominem fallacy detected. What does rank have to do with anything?
Cocho (NA)
: I don't mean to be condescending, but its just that low elo players are often just not credible. If I'm writing an opinion paper on my stance on abortion, I'm still going to look for whatever facts, stats, examples and research on the topic that I can find that is credible. I'm not going to listen at what Wikipedia says. I might look at the sources that Wikipedia got their information from (if any), but I'm not going to list Wikipedia as a source itself. Listen to a bronze player with his own opinions on most topics is like listening to a wiki page with no sources. Yeah sure, it could be right, I might even agree with him. But I'm not going to just take it alone for face value with no further thought behind it because it just isn't credible or I know that he's wrong 100%. I build {{item:3155}} on {{champion:55}} very often. I can't tell you how many times low elo players have questioned it. It's honestly annoying. I often hear things for backing and buying {{item:1036}} {{item:1036}} when I'm building into {{item:3146}} . I'm not going to take the time to type why its good in chat. I just ignore them or mute them. I don't insult them in chat, but I do think it. I don't expect anyone to sit there, and tell them why its good. Sometimes I actually do decide to sit there for 20 seconds, typing why its good. I dont get a positive reply either way.
> [{quoted}](name=Cocho,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xkhVMG3y,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-08-04T00:58:17.981+0000) > > I don't mean to be condescending, but its just that low elo players are often just not credible. > > If I'm writing an opinion paper on my stance on abortion, I'm still going to look for whatever facts, stats, examples and research on the topic that I can find that is credible. I'm not going to listen at what Wikipedia says. I might look at the sources that Wikipedia got their information from (if any), but I'm not going to list Wikipedia as a source itself. > Ethos basically sums up what you just said. The thing is, a bronze player can say why Master Yi is OP in BRONZE ELO because he/she is in that elo, but over all in league, stating Yi is OP, not so much. Think of it in that regards.
: > [{quoted}](name=Darkdemon653,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xkhVMG3y,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-08-04T01:35:05.040+0000) > > Opinions cannot be wrong or correct. Opinions are often based on facts that can easily be argued or proven wrong.
Depends on the topic. Say whether someone likes a champion or not is an opinion. "I like Orianna. I think she is an awesome champion. I lover her concept" "Meh. She is fine." Yes that can be argued but it is personal enjoyment of something. That type of opinion is neither correct nor incorrect.
Glîtchy (NA)
: She's presently one of the best mid laners, her and Syndra both need nerfs, Taliyah tho.....not really.
I know Ori is in a good spot mid but what does that have to do with her shield though?
Glîtchy (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RExBxZJR,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-08-03T21:32:53.787+0000) > > and kit wise a well > > No > and also no Elaborate then, her winrate was about 38-40% on release, hell she was almost never banned.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ark Sorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9z14XQEP,comment-id=000400000000000000000002,timestamp=2017-07-31T22:26:35.321+0000) > > My apologies I am aware I said: > > but I did say: > > I am aware I said her E is strong but I was sure that I stated the combo is what is strong, not just her E specifically. I was typing quickly and didn't process what I typed 100%. Sorry about that. It's true that her combo does a lot of damage but that is the bulk of her damage which can be avoided. Her ultimate is canceled by all hard CC now and her Q is a slow projectile that is easy to dodge and her wall is only really strong against immobile champions (or champions you know used their escape). You could save your CC for when she puts the ultimate under you and cancel it instantly, and then avoid her Q and she wouldn't be able to do anything. Though the only thing I would say about her being "cancerous" or any of her abilities being strong would be her wall. I feel she is fine (and in fact her play rate and win rate has been dropping past 2 patches ever since her nerfs in 7.14) but if they would nerf her, I feel it would be ok to hit her CDs (mainly her Wall since that is what people are complaining about in high elo from what I heard).
> [{quoted}](name=Dark Nephthys,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9z14XQEP,comment-id=0004000000000000000000020000,timestamp=2017-07-31T22:47:27.794+0000) > >Her ultimate is canceled by all hard CC now and her Q is a slow projectile that is easy to dodge and her wall is only really strong against immobile champions (or champions you know used their escape). You could save your CC for when she puts the ultimate under you and cancel it instantly, and then avoid her Q and she wouldn't be able to do anything. > Translation: you don't have hard CC or you have a hard CC but is first hit and Anivia is behind minions, you are screwed. Don't make it sound sooo easy. You are correct but not every champion can deal with her as easily you stat. Just keep that note in mind.
: I get that but it also makes it infuriating to play because I traditionally play bruisers and fighters. Not these talon, quinn, panth hyper carry meta that seems to be the only way to climb in top lane. So to see my whole playstyle go under in one season because of skill gap makes me want to tear my hair out. When I'm being coached and playing in Gold 2 Elo either using their alt account or my alt account it's a night and day difference. It reminds me of those first jobs where they want experience to get the job but you need the job to get experience. I need gold+ teammates to get the elo but I need the elo to get the gold+ teammates. Until then I have to accept my playstyle is basically out of meta in low elo. If I'm not playing a hyper carry I'm not climbing in top.
That, unfortunate, sounds like the ranking system when you get up there. (Unless you work at McDonald's, wanting to be America's best first job-- jest). I can't really say anything other than do something like duo queue but even then, the other three players may still screw you up but it makes it easier.
: I'm not saying diving is bad at all. But I'm saying that if after 2 tries it wipes us and both time we have to clench our buttholes to not let that wipe end the game, it's most likely a good idea to not. That is common sense to me. But in low elo it seems like that's actually a question "Should I try a third?". I understand the cards I am dealt but as someone who comes from a heavy PvP game history and has formed a sort of code of ethics. One code, I won't play freelo to climb because it has simply become not fun. I don't find playing talon top going 23-2 and one htting everyone to be fun. It's the nail biting fights where you are using mechanics and game knowledge to outplay your opponent NOT the champions power (@hyper carries). You will never see me in any game using a unbalanced playstyle to defeat someone, nor will you see me challenging someone below my skill. That's the first rule in my code. Unfortunately, that's not how low elo climbing works. Instead of playing team based champs you are brainwashed to play hyper carries, /muteall and then rage when you realize you aren't a carry. Why play a tank when you can play master yi is the basic mentality. I used to think toxicity was the reason my team was feeding. I stopped saying anything negative and no difference. Proving my theory right. Toxicity is the result of feeding, not the cause. In MY experience. People aren't toxic to me because I don't feed. You will NEVER catch me as one of those teammates that is 0-3 in lane. Not gonna happen. I'll uninstall before that happens. I know how to optimize my win chance in lane against stronger opponents, same can't be said to my elo. Even my Gold 4 friend has a lower win rate when he plays in low elo than when I hop on my alt and we play in gold. The skill gap in silver is way too diverse.
I am glad you have such a code when playing PvP games. With myself, I have been playing PvE games and League is my first PvP game. It is frustrating to go from a puzzle game such as Legend of Zelda to ... this but I adjusted... slowly. All I can really say is that lower elo players are not only lacking mechanical knowledge but simply thinking at all. It isn't until... mid to high gold? Maybe just gold... certainly plat where players take advantage of the situation and won't easily allow a loss if in a huge win situation. I do not know what else to say. I have heard a few time from Diamond players that when the new season starts again, they do use over powered hyper carrys to get out of that elo as quickly as possible and just stomp. It isn't until plat or Diamond where they begin to struggle as they go back to the elo where they are. I don't think toxicity is the sole reason. Players who are behind either do not know what to do or desperate try to get a kill and get back up only to fail, again a decision that only comes after the end of the game. Would you rather have a player that could at least defend a tower or 4v5? I do understand where you are coming from but I have no clue how to help you. Just play well, get to gold and play with players that are at your skill and mindset.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ark Sorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9z14XQEP,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-31T16:01:36.347+0000) > > Oh boy, do you ever hate that spear combo of hers. That ability alone deals more damage then anything else in her kit. Q, tolerable; R, don't stay in for too long; E, whatever; Q E or R E, what the bloody heck!!?? Anivia's E alone is one of the weakest abilities from mid laners 150 base + 50% AP. When it's empowered sure it goes up to 300 + 100% AP but that is an ability that is nothing but damage and requires the use of another ability to be useful. Even looking at that damage, {{champion:112}}'s Q does more damage than Anivia's Empowered E while offering even less counterplay and gives him utility.
My apologies I am aware I said: >that ability alone deals more damage then anything else in her kit > but I did say: > E, whatever; Q E or R E, what the bloody heck!!?? > I am aware I said her E is strong but I was sure that I stated the combo is what is strong, not just her E specifically. I was typing quickly and didn't process what I typed 100%. Sorry about that.
Charnim (EUW)
: Your right man. i just dont enjoy playing enymore. if you make 1 mistake in lane early your pretty much done for in your lane. it isnt about skill anymore just take an op asasain, get snowballed and roll your face over your keyboard. They need no make it more skill and put less damage in the game for sure. or buff the tanks again, but it looks like they never find the balance becouse they keep adding new champions.
Each champion has their own skill flooring and skill ceiling, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. I am a mage player, so stuff like this is more in the abilities. Annie may have an instant stun but her range is pathetic; Syndra may be good at bursting but she is immobile. It more has to deal with why play a harder and more rewarding champion when you can play a simple one with no draw backs-- say Ezreal and MF. Both have good AD Q ratios. Who would you chose: a champion whose Q is first it, has two other abilities that deal damage and kiting, and an ult with a delay you need to predict where your opponents are going to go OR a champion with a point and click Q, two utility spells, and an instant cone aoe ult? From my perspective, as playing as the second strongest bursting class, mages, I have always hated it when a stupid crit deals over 1/3 of my health. An auto did that damage, a basic thing in the game, where my abilities deal less than that and can be avoided or missed. I hated this the most when Lethality came out and non AD assassins abused this stat. I never understood why armour pen needed to be touched, especially seeing how AP is the same: one percent magic item and two flat. Why make it where AD is so much better over AP? This season made it where I really just couldn't enjoy the game like I used to. I avoided mid because hate the fact I can screw up an ability and miss out on a ton of damage yet an auto attack deals so much. MF's Q with lethality items is so... egh. Even Rengar wishes he had that burst in ONE ability. Again, this is my opinion but I wish someone could start a movement where they stat this damage distribution issue RIOT has going on. I would gladly support it if done well to the best of my abilities.
: Humans make "mistakes" but they are only "mistakes" if you don't correct them. They are not mandatory. If you tower dive 8 times and lose the team fight 8 times because of it that is not a human mistake. "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein I'm not asking for perfect machines, I am asking for evolved average humans that can look at a mistake and say "This is how I'm not gonna do that again".
Sometimes, one can only learn after trying and screwing something up multiple times. Trying to tower dive is fine, but how to do and against who? Should heck just tank and Vel deals all the damage? Can one tower dive an Ahri? A Zed? Brand? Mistakes like these are learned after a game, not during. "look at a mistake and say 'This is how I'm not gonna do that again.'" You can see that is was a bad idea to tower dive, yeah sure, but why was it? You can be in Diamond and players will still tower dive, it is the matter of how they do it, and maybe when. If you are asking for "evolved average humans" then you are, unfortunately, going to have to climb in rank. There are mental mindset barriers in each elo. I am not against you, just trying to open up a different mind set for you.
: Let me rephrase, the champ isn't OP. The fact that by the time I get to kick his teeth in he is 7-0 because low elo doesn't ward and over extends is OP. That is why his low elo win rate is so high. Any carry 7-0 is going to be Master OP, but yi is able to consistently get fed off my bot lane in games. The fucked up part is that even fed I still beat him. I 4 shot him goes guess who was also 7-0, not my teammates. That's for damn sure. But me beating yi doesn't matter when he flashes behind me, presses Q and get's a triple cas twitch refuses to get GA and blitz refuses to peel for him. Like I said, even if I can stop yi, I cannot stop yi from killing my team in 1 ability. This is also why mid laners have more impact. Almost eveyr hyper carry mage in the game has INSANE cc. Annie, Anivia, Malz, Ahri, etc. Had I had any of those mid laners 10-4-12 we would have won but #GottaLoveTopLane. While mid laners get this freelo no aim CC top laners have to generally be in melee range to CC and even then only lasts about 0.5 seconds. I have never been that fed on a mid laner and lost. It just doesn't happen. EDIT: I just finished reviewing the game with a plat and I qoute "there is no reason you lost that" - swiftgeko Plat 2
Reason why you lost that: Silver players are not able to see their advantages and take hold of them unlike Plat players. Or in other words, the mind set.
Charnim (EUW)
: i stoped playing league becouse of this meta. i played for 5 years.
> [{quoted}](name=Charnim,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y0aHUfAF,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-07-31T15:14:40.858+0000) > > League isnt fun enymore. gettig oneshotted even when you are a tank. its just who snowballs early wins the game. And all those new champs who fuckup the meta. and dont forget the duskblade XDXDXDXD woooow just buy on every champ. even supps. I agree to a huge extent. Over the years, Riot has been adding more and more damage into the game, now it is to the point that tanks don't live for a long time while champions who are not suppose to have a burst, Miss Fortune, are competing with assassins on the damage. It isn't to say that I don't enjoy he game, but Riot needs to calm down with regards to damage. Everyone knows the reason why Riot hates on mages is because they are a top tier class in professional level play: 2nd highest burst after assassins, and 3rd highest cc after Supports and Tanks, or at the very least, that is what I figure. Whatever the real reasoning behind RIOT increasing damage makes it not fun because everyone dies so quickly and snowballing becomes a major issue. Just my opinion, of course.
: not to mention her stun spear combo can do about half your health before she even hits 6
Oh boy, do you ever hate that spear combo of hers. That ability alone deals more damage then anything else in her kit. Q, tolerable; R, don't stay in for too long; E, whatever; Q E or R E, what the bloody heck!!??
Sukishoo (NA)
: Not true at all. SMITE is avaliable on PS4 and Xbox for free just like it is on PC, as it is digital there as well.
First: Wasn't thinking about it digital... that is my fault. Second: I don't play SMITE so I would never know what they do.
: Lol, except that you have a totalitarian ruler, in the form of Riot, trying to control things that they literally cannot control. Which is why the trolls are just going to continue to get worse and worse, as has been proven over the years.
> [{quoted}](name=MrFeelg00d,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=X0ZFKK79,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-07-31T01:09:24.395+0000) > > Lol, except that you have a totalitarian ruler, in the form of Riot, trying to control things that they literally cannot control. > What do you mean by that, exactly?
: Im not the only person playing aram and im certainly not the only person getting free-win time-wasting unfulfilling games.... the collective requirements are being raised from shooting fish in a barrel.
I am playing ARAM as well. My past 40+ games must be ARAM matches. Haven't had a bot in my games for a long time. When I first started, heck yeah there were a lot, but now, I am seeing gold, plat even diamond players so I have never seen a bot since then. I guess it helps that I am nearly 50 wins over losses in ARAM.
: Riot do something about ARAM
I thought it was the average of every player on that champion, not your average on that champion. Am I mistaken?
Beas7ie (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Krigjer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ugNk8Uws,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2017-07-30T04:48:04.679+0000) > > It's considered an unfun strategy for the team it's deployed against. > > Like. I've actually seen a Riot post on this topic. Even if all five enemy team members agreed to purposely lose and feed, the winning team can still (and is encouraged to) report them because that's not a FUN game to play. But if they're running all 5 down mid and doing their best to WIN, then that's a legitimate strategy. Riot has stated over and over again that you can't be banned just for playing "off meta". Well if all 5 agree to it as some crazy strategy to WIN then that is just a form of playing "off meta". Now that chat was kind of assholish and could possibly be reported, but the strategy itself is fair game.
> [{quoted}](name=Beas7ie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ugNk8Uws,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2017-07-30T04:55:47.892+0000) > > But if they're running all 5 down mid and doing their best to WIN, then that's a legitimate strategy. > > Riot has stated over and over again that you can't be banned just for playing "off meta". Well if all 5 agree to it as some crazy strategy to WIN then that is just a form of playing "off meta". > > Now that chat was kind of assholish and could possibly be reported, but the strategy itself is fair game. My point exactly. Thank you.
Krigjer (NA)
: > Gameplay wise there is nothing at all wrong with what they did, however chat wise they should have been more sportsman like. Actually, Riot views this behavior as toxic because it ruins the gameplay experience for both teams.
> [{quoted}](name=Krigjer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ugNk8Uws,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-07-30T04:34:52.848+0000) > > Actually, Riot views this behavior as toxic because it ruins the gameplay experience for both teams. Come again? Is League not a strategy game? I understand how what they did is far from META but it is a strategy that the enemy team did. I fail to see how it can be toxic unless Riot wants the game to be confined to what it is now, thus making it not a strategy game.
: league of legends on console?
A major, money related issue, is that the PC LoL is free to play but the console would cost. You can't just give the console version of this for free, seeing purchasing discs, burning them and getting the box are all costs.
painteon (NA)
: Those are all pretty good points that you brought up. Its basically how you feel when you play Kindred, the ult in the sense of an interesting game mechanic is up there but fitting the them of the eternal hunters that embody death itself, it falls short on. Or maybe if not trying to fit the lore theme but to fit the jungler role, where you will chasing down someone or hunting down a target most of the time it doesnt really help you there. sure every kits needs a defensive ability to help survival, but you're more likely to pop W then Q Q Q out of there than use your ult. personally when I first played kindred all the way to mastery 5, it was ll bot lane kindred (with the old one). It would probably work better with the new kindred given the ad scaling changes but it could be easy to just push lane then go to scuttle mark nearby and farm it for 10 secs and then come back, you have your sup to watch the lane for you. Plus you can mark the adc or sup as many times as you want for more mark kills. If you've killed them both within the mark cooldown period, mark their jungle, we all know he'll visit at some point. It works more than most think. Hmm I just had another idea for their ult. Why not make it a large smoke screen that kindred an allies can see through and you wont be able to see them unless they're right on top of you. Makes sense lore wise since they do hunt from the shadows. Also, let me know what you thought of my other suggestions.
> [{quoted}](name=painteon,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=OHJ9GrQt,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T15:39:15.034+0000) > > Its basically how you feel when you play Kindred, the ult in the sense of an interesting game mechanic is up there but fitting the them of the eternal hunters that embody death itself, it falls short on. Or maybe if not trying to fit the lore theme but to fit the jungler role, where you will chasing down someone or hunting down a target most of the time it doesnt really help you there. sure every kits needs a defensive ability to help survival, but you're more likely to pop W then Q Q Q out of there than use your ult. > That there is the issue RIOT has been struggling with for about a year now: the lore effects the kits. The lore in game is meant to enrichen the universe, making it seem to have more depth then presented. While this is not so much the case in any game that has a story, in a MOBA or PvP game, the lore has only that purpose. Whether you are playing Ezreal, Poppy or Azir, the lore is their to give them depth outside of their gameplay. With Ezreal, his abilities are so meh (not in power) that you can come up with practically anything and it would be fine. With Poppy, you can change the story of her hammer: she purchased it, she inherited it, she got it from a dead ally and more. Azir's lore has a bigger effect that it explains why his kit has a theme of manipulating soldiers to do everything. However, the lore does not effect the game play at all, making the lore have little purpose to have. The only reason for their needing to be a lore is due to the personality of the characters. Why is a character say their joke, taunt, or moving spot? The lore explains that. Otherwise, the lore is their to enrichen the lore. My favourite examples are practically everyone from the Shadow Isle. No game play connection, maybe aside weapon choices, but man does their origin are on point. Even if you disagree, do you think that how RIOT has made Vestias a thing effects any of the characters in game by any means? No, it does not. Back to Kindred, her lore of being the representation of death is fine. That should not impact her kit at all, aside maybe the theme, or what the 4 abilities and passive are trying to feel like. Her ult has what to deal with death? She... defies it? So... what Thresh, Karthus, Hec, and everyone else she views as an enemy does? http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/kindred/ Like, she views them as enemies because they are characters that can't/won't die. So about her ult... umm... what is the connection? As for Kindred's defensive abilities, her Q and E do that well, with kiting and a slow. No need to have an entire ULTIMATE for a defensive ability, especially on a marksmen. That is what Kindred is suffering from, the lore is interfering with her design. An example could be Sejuani. She was fine as is, but because she is a leader, her new E mechanic is what is now. Not a good game design for her, a lot Sejuani players prefer her pre rework since i made more sense. Just an example.
: 2 years later riot finally makes more skins in the omega squad line but failed to make
Question: if Teemo was the only Omega Squad skin, then how could it be a line if there was only one?
painteon (NA)
: That's a fair point. Wolf doesnt seem as terrifying as the lore makes him out to be. If we could switch between the two of them like with the W then that would be cool too. However, im fine with the current gameplay just not sure how we're actually supposed to use this ult. utility ults like ryzes and bards are fine because they have a clear goal and way to manipulate them, yet kindred's seems counter productive at times.
Me personally with wolf, I say 'they' in lore or story but in gameplay, it is her or lamb. Let's be honest, the lore in game means nothing so one can get away with just referring to her, especially since Lulu's Fairy Pix does more than Wolf. The problem with Kindred's ult is that it is a defensive utility ult. Think about it, every other marksmen has an offensive, damaging ult yet Kindred, who is a marksmen, is a defensive zone where no one can die. Unlike Bards ult, it places no stress on the enemy unless you would have gotten the kill and is low enough as it is, but that is situational. Even among other utility ults, it is more defensive and has no place in battle. Its strengths comes from predictable ults coming her or an allies way, say a Karthus ult. In battle, it is a cluster mess that does not belong on a marksmen of all sorts. If this was on a support, it would be better because they are not suppose to deal damage but being in the back lines and saving an ally is the same feeling when an ally uses their CC to stop an advance enemy and saves you, it is awesome. Granted Kindred is not suppose to be in the front lines, despite her short range (ignore that little rework...) but the gear from offensive to defensive in her ult makes no design sense. On a support, it is all defensive so they have a far better judgement call on using it. The only other thing I can think of is that Kindred would use her ult to get a kill on Drag or Baron, something no jungler that is not Diana would use... Maybe Shyvana but I doubt players would ult for that, entailing she is weaker where she needs to ult and not die to get the kill. Then again, better Kindred players would know better so maybe this is a point for less experience Kindred players. Feel free to ignore this point. That is just my opinion at looking at her design as a champion. Like, here is a question, aside from Wolf's portion of the passive, is Bot Lane Kindred Viable? Think about it.
: And Zyra's E spawns plant faster than her Q? I understand.
But it does have a travel delay. So does that translate for the plants to summon more quickly than with her Q? Thanks. You have been of great help with this specific topic.
: Zyra's Q has a short delay for plant spawning. We're talking about blocking skills shots so yeah I'm talking about how fast each skill makes a plant.
And Zyra's E spawns plant faster than her Q? I understand.
Julanus (NA)
: The main argument was it made mages difficult to balance since they were "intended" to be squishy sources of damage through abilities. It was also stated that the reason there were no AD Spell Vamp items was because it was too difficult to balance. In my opinion, I don't feel like it actually would have been as difficult to balance as it'd been presented to be. What makes it even weirder is how every item currently with a Spell Vamp-esque effect has Attack Damage (Death's Dance, Hextech Gunblade, and Blade of the Ruined King, even Elixir of Wrath, all heal from damage dealt by abilties).
Hmm. Guess we can add that to the conspiracy against Riot and their hatred/disinterests in mages. To the topic at hand, I see where you are coming from. Thank you for this information. I guess the only real question is how is it too hard to balance? The argument that mages are suppose to be a squishy source a damage is not as valid when you consider that marksmen are a squishy source of dps damage.
: You should never Q to block a hook. That ability is too slow. E is much faster. The word hooker is intentional. It's a well-known pun for Blitz, Thresh, and Naut.
How is Zyra's Q slower? Zyra's E is slow for a line skill shot. Are you talking about when a plant is close to you versus a distance or something? Or do you mean the plant forming is quicker for her E over her Q? Somewhat how one W Q E, the plant is from her E and not her Q? Otherwise, I fail to see how.
: Blitz is also incredibly easy to predict. He's a one trick pony. The best Zyra matchups are all the hookers. They are incredibly predictable and have nothing after they blow it.
I don't think predicting a Blitzcrank Q is hard, unless the marksmen is behind nothing and Blitz just Qs. I am saying it is more of an issue of placing the plant, Qing, and letting it rise/grow as the hook is going to said player. >The best Zyra matchups are all the hookers. > You could have worded that better. I know you are talking about Blitz, Thresh and Naut; though I would argue she is better against Thresh than the other two due to the delay he has with his Q. However, when I first read that, I thought of an actual hooker. Side Note: AHHH your Icon.
Julanus (NA)
: Morgana's passive gives her 10/15/20% Spell Vamp. 10% at Level 1, 15% at Level 7, and 20% at Level 13. Also, to your question above, currently, the only (non-champion specific) sources of Spell Vamp are Quintessence Runes and the Vampirism mastery (3rd tier of Ferocity, also gives Lifesteal). However, at once time, Spell Vamp was actually a stat which could be built in-game and was on two items, Hextech Gunblade and Will of the Ancients. Will of the Ancients was a Mage item that went through a few iterations (at one time, it gave a Spell Vamp aura), but ultimately, it was removed from the game for being problematic to balance.
Didn't know about Morg's Passive. What fun. As I thought, spell vamp isn't really much of a stat in the game other than it being on Quintessences, the Mastery and Champion specific. How hard is it to balance exactly? *Thinks of Akali* Never mind.
: new honor system?
Wasn't it suppose to come out patch 7.13 and it was patch 7.12?
: Zyra has a very specific function when I use her in Support these days. Namely, we're going to get our shit pushed in (See Xayah/Rakan or Kalista/Thresh for examples) and I need a way to defend a tower siege. No one defends a tower seige like a nesting Zyra. Better or worse, she is my go-to against heavy siege comps and the "molesterers" that grab upon you like Blitz. She is feast or famine. Both safe and vulnerable, depending on what you're doing. As a Mastery 7 Zyra Support Main, I like where she is at right now. It takes skill to get plant damage in a minion wave. So if you're facing a Zyra that makes you feel like it's 3 months ago, they're good at it.
I mean, I understand what you are saying. I personally would prefer Zyra in the mid lane and allow actual suppoprts to take the role. But again, I understand what you are saying.
jmp231 (NA)
: Morg if built full ap has crazy spell vamp
I have heard of that (Haven't fought a lot of full AP Morgs) but where does it come from? Is it natural in her stats to have spell vamp?
Paroe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ark Sorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tXuE8kig,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-16T06:16:25.849+0000) > > To be fair, Morell is on every mages item list. -40% healing. Its not a lot vs premitigation unless they also have healing. And morellos needs you to get them below 40% health in the first place.
True but look it at this way, once they get to 40%, they won't easily recover to a non ergency in their health bar. EDIT: Urgent* Sorry. 12 in the morning. Already quoted so I am just putting it here.
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Ark Sorcerer

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