Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 20
A bit of an aside but when is Quinn finally going to receive some small scale meaningful work akin to Wukong and Swain? Perhaps something that allows her to fight tanks or a kit that isn’t high risk, low reward and doesn’t mandate her to be extremely fed in order to provide normal amounts of pressure in a game. High elo one tricks are beginning to struggle with her.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 3
Hey welcome back. Are you guys going to assess Quinn sometime in the future? Myself and other veteran Quinn players feel she is virtually unplayable. Perhaps revert some of the Season 8 nerfs as compensation for the Stormrazor rework?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 27
So you're giving Vayne the Riven treatment, huh? I just wish you guys kept this same energy for balancing low pick rate champions as well.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 13
Why hasn't {{champion:133}} received any form of compensation for the nerfs from the {{item:3095}} changes and the all inclusive bot lane meta of Season 8? She's terribly out scaled before she can even spike and has the highest death rate in the game.
: How she has counterplay ? If she gets Duskblade she will one-shot you coming at you with high speed dealing nearly 1000 damage with 1 auto proccing her passive and duskblade, what's counter play to that ? dodge her auto's ? Also Swain is pretty good right now, he doesn't feel overpowered and underpowered there is no need to buff either one...
I'm sorry but this comment just isn't applicable anymore. If this were Season 7 I'd agree with you, but Duskblade Quinn just isn't the same as she once was. She absolutely cannot one shot anyone unless she is extremely fed and 2+ levels ahead of the other team's squishy. As I said in my OP, Riot has steadily moved Quinn away from burst over these past two seasons through her R damage dropping to 40% from 100% total AD, her W attack speed scaling to 80% from 40%, nerfs to her passive damage and base AD - and by extension nerfing Duskblade itself and Electrocute. Don't let irrational hatred for champions blind you from fair balance.
Eedat (NA)
: Quinn and Swain weren't nerfed because of bot lane. IIRC Quinn was damn near 55% win rate top lane and Swain was dominating Mid and Top
That's because Quinn's ultimate is polarizing in Solo Q games where there is lack of coordination. However, this does not mean she needs to be underpowered at all stages of the game. Quinn has plenty of counters, no real escapes, and can easily be shut down early via ganks and armor items.
Rioter Comments
: Hey Meddler! Now that the crit item changes have settled, any plans for {{champion:133}} ? She's not doing too well since the changes and most of that seems to be due to how heavily she was balanced around the previous items and the earlier powerspike of Stormrazor. Without it her weaker laning phase and now slower power leads to her often never really coming online before she's past the point of relevance in most games. Is there any chance some of her stat nerfs could be reversed now that the problem items that required them no longer exist?
Honestly, I don't know why we have to make such a fuss before this champ ever gets looked at. She doesn't need much, just revert the armor nerfs and potentially her missing base AD or AD scaling and she'll be fine.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 13
With the change to Crit items as well as the small rework to Stormrazor, isn't it about time Quinn's armor and scaling nerfs from Season 8 were reverted? She's primarily played top, against champs with higher base stats, and even now has a 0.15% pick rate in the bottom lane.
: Quinn Changes Coming Soon - Strike from the Sky!
Yo Riot Xenogenic, has her base AD/scaling actually changed on PBE? With a Dorans Blade (+8 AD) along with Domination secondary (+6 AD), I start with 76 AD and at level 17 I'm at 100 AD base.
: Quinn Changes Coming Soon - Strike from the Sky!
Now that I've had some time to reflect on this, I'm not too sure how I feel about it tbh. Losing 3 base AD in the early game now makes Quinn the second lowest starting AD marksman in the game (behind MF whose passive makes up for it) in a lane where your opponents can quickly build some serious damage mitigation (Tabi's, Chain Armor, Bone Plating, etc). This pretty much forces you to passively farm lane until you can get enough items to start being relevant. I think it's a change that also pushes Quinn out of the midlane and bottom lane, and hurts her early jungle clear even more, even though that's not where she's intended to be. You won't have the early damage to do well elsewhere. I love the bug fixes and the extra passive proc on R, but in order to get Harrier marks on more than one person in a teamfight you'll have to kamikaze into that mfer, unless they change the width of its hitbox. Lastly, this means Quinn will be picked more by plebs and banned more often, leading to a very unhappy Quinn main. I hope I'm wrong and this turns out to be the best thing they've done for her, but as of now I'm skeptical.
: 1. Would not trade 3 ad early for 7 ad late. Quinn starting ad is already low compared to other ADCs. With the recent -5 damage to minions, that can be hard to last hit. Fact is Quinn is only a bully in lane against brusier, against pure tanks she can't do anything anyways. If you had to reduce her early game power, I rather you lower the passive proc damage very slightly. This way, we can still CS properly. 2. With the nerf to duskblade coming, revert Skystrike damage back to 100% ad. Skystrike damage is so low you can't even last hit minions with it. This change was made because duskblade was too strong on Quinn anyways. 3. Q blind currently has a delay, make it so that the blind applies instantly as soon as Q lands. Some things I want to clarify. With the R changes. If I'm understanding this correctly, Quinn now has 4 passive proc in one rotation? That does seem like a big buff, when dealing with tanks at least. Personally, I like the fact that Quinn is a niche pick. Quality of life changes, bug fixes and revert skystrike damage is good enough for me. I'm an experience Quinn main btw.
Roigaar (EUW)
: Sorry, I don't want to harp on the subject but I wasn't sure if you read my comment last post, I got in from work too late: Thank you for commenting on Quinn. I have to point out, while I agree with the things you're saying regarding her current state, some of her historic problems and outlook, I don't think you touched enough on her current power level. I don't think Quinn's current problem is that she's underpowered per se, but she's certainly underperforming. Check the relation between playrates and winrates for the last few months: she used to have a stable, slightly below average playrate and a good winrate that befit her status as a niche champion. Regardless of the logic we use (I saw some objections to my previous take on the matter) I think it's undeniable that a champion that rapidly loses both winrate (3% overall in two months) and playrate (sub 1% now) with no direct changes is under duress. Quinn has always had to compete against champions similar to those in meta, across many different metas in fact, while having the same stable numbers she hasn't shown ever since the preseason, specifically since the lethality item nerfs. I agree, Quinn players tend to be divided over what they want for Quinn, even though Repertoir was very explicit this version of Quinn was designed to be a solo laner, a facet that Volty wholeheartedly embraced, but I feel like that's a conversation to be had in the future once her rework looms. For now I think it'd be a disservice to simply say these things and not move to improve Quinn's current state, because she's not in immediate rework priority, which, you know better than I do, means that it'll be nearer to two years before you guys can address her. Returning to my original point, I don't think Quinn is underpowered. I think we'd be insincere to say that she needs a return to former states because there's very good reasons why you guys moved to nerf what you did. But this is a perfect opportunity to move to improve Quinn's feel at the very least, and I do believe there is room given how she's performing to add at least a tad of power as long as it doesn't contribute to alienate melees. We would really like for Repertoir to evaluate Quinn's state, for two reasons: one, he stated that he would procure that Quinn was always at least somewhat relevant. Two, a year ago said he knew that Quinn's kit has a few pain points he would like to address but Quinn's state at the time did not allow for him to do so on good conscience. I think Quinn can be said to be objectively under the relevance bar, and for the first time since the rework she exhibits room for work. As for ideas for places you can add power without contributing to abusive patterns, I suggest: * First and foremost, fixing some of her bugs. Currently, there are situations in which Skystrike doesn't fire at all, or fires and deals no damage. A bug that was fixed previously has come back, too: if you cancel Harrier's auto, you can no longer proc the mark on that target. * Disallowing creep damage to cancel her ult channel. A 2 second self root is deterrent enough for quick escapes, and it ends up feeling awful to have a single creep auto cancel a nearly complete channel due to erratic creep behavior. * Easing on the slow inflicted by creep aggro when using her ultimate. Currently, Quinn is massively slowed if she takes creep damage during her ultimate. This mechanic often feels overbearing because she isn't merely slowed by a percentage, her movement speed is set to her base, negating any bonus her ult might have given. The change is extraordinarily jarring, there is no easing into it. We dread it so much we call creep autos during ult "minion glitterlances". * Improving W's active. This ability feels very lackluster compared to similar vision tools. The cooldown is way too high for a point blank ability, vision doesn't linger long enough to justify said cooldown and it feel like it's overall the place in Quinn's kit where the least power is allocated. * Make Skystrike deal additional damage to creeps or execute creeps at a certain threshold. One consequence of the nerf to Vault out of ult was that Skystrike lost its usefulness as a pushing mechanic because it deals negligible damage to creeps. I am not exaggerating when i say that Skystrike contributes far more to ruining your ability to CS when pushing than aiding it. It feels awful. * If you're amenable to bumping up Quinn's power levels, simply increasing W's passive uptime slightly would go a long way in bolstering healthy combat patterns. The buff duration often creates pain points where the sudden change in attack speed induces mistakes, and part of it is lost simply adjusting for the shift. R's mana costs early are also a huge pain point, which puts a heavy damper on what Quinn can hope to accomplish with it during the part of the game where she's supposed to be strong. It scales to cost 0, which trivializes her mana costs late. I think she would benefit a lot from a flat cost. Summarizing, I commend you for addressing Quinn, but please don't allow her to stay in this state indefinitely, especially now that you're moving to nerf Duskblade. We beg of you.
I second this and was actually going to suggest they up Quinn's W passive from 2-3 seconds and give her back the 2AD they took from her on the Valentine's Day post. I didn't because I feared I wouldn't get a response otherwise.
Meddler (NA)
: Hmm, let me check with some folks about being able to channel ult while moving. Can't make any promises, especially given her animations, but possible we might be able to do at least slowed movement while casting there. How consistent is the Skystrike bug you mention? If there's a reliable way to reproduce it consistently could get that shifted up ahead of other bugs in the priority list.
I'm not sure if it has a 100% reproduction rate ( perhaps other Quinn players can chime in) but it does tend to happen if she uses Vault in her ultimate. Maybe also consider giving her back that 2AD from that nerf targeting her Q. It seemed unnecessary :)
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 14
Yo Meddler, thanks for the insight on Quinn. I think you hit most of the points on the head and we know it's bound to require larger work to get right. However, we'd still like to play the champ to some degree of success so maybe some QoL changes could be suggested. One that's been floating around is giving Quinn the ability to walk while channeling her ultimate. Having to root yourself is pretty crippling, and having that siege minion switch aggro to you to cancel it is the worst especially at level 6 where it eats about 1/3 of her mana. Also her Skystrike bug that's been happening since October should be looked at eventually. The damage never goes off out of her ugly when you Vault.
Roigaar (EUW)
: Hey, Meddler. I really dislike having to do this because I think these types of threads often get derailed by tone-deaf "buff my champ when?" posts, but I feel like this topic has gone completely under the radar. You guys have spent the last couple of months trying to address the state of toplane by adjusting runes, champions (those that seem[ed] to be struggling, like bruisers, as well as those that seemed to be unduly strong, like lane bullies drawing too much power from runes). None of those discussions/changes have taken Quinn into account. Quinn is the type of champion that you would expect to come up often since she's been typically considered one that bruisers in particular seem to have a hard time going against, and it should have been an alarm to you that she is *utterly absent* from the string of complaint posts that have appeared here and in other forums about the state of toplane. I invite you to control + F Quinn in the most vitriolic posts about toplane balance (you know the ones I'm talking about), or watch the high-elo community videos like Wicked's referenced tierlists, and you'll see what I mean. To summarize the issue: Quinn's playrate has been falling dramatically over the weeks since preseason, to a point where she's beginning to disappear from data gathering sites, and instead of seeing winrate increases that usually happen when only players with 50+ games play a champion, her winrate has gone down by 3-4% according to most sources. Quinn is struggling. She has received indirect nerfs in almost every patch since preseason hit, the most egregious being lethality values going down across the board when the AD assassins and casters seemed out of line, but has also suffered from nerfs to almost every major rune she can viably spec into, including Press the Attack, Celerity, Eyeball Collection, Sudden Impact, Coup the Grace and Triumph repeatedly. This period was supposed to evaluate where champions landed in terms of power level after preseason. Despite being a niche champion, Quinn previously appeared to be appropriately tuned considering her play rate, winrates. As you balance the things around her, that is no longer the case, but she is absent from the conversation. Her stats as a niche champion should be cause for alarm. Her situation has deteriorated immensely in the span of two months, she was significantly healthier on 7.22. And we would understand some apprehension: Quinn has historically been a champion that tends to cause frustrations in toplane, but that is simply a nonissue given her current power level. Moreover, there are plenty of parts in her kit where power can be altered not to contribute to alienating melee champions, such as W’s and R’s many levers. I can't stress this enough. Her playrate has **plummeted**, reaching sub 1% levels, only behind Volibear and Mordekaiser. Her winrate has dropped several points even though mains make up for the majority of her appearances. You guys continue to nerf tools she relies in, and in the current toplane discussion where she would normally get flak, she has been conspicuously absent because she is irrelevant in this state. This situation feels **wrong** and we are worried she will be held in this state indefinitely. Can we get you guys to at least comment on this situation?
Good Lord I couldn't have wrote a better comment. Well said.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 9
Has Riot considered a potential small Gameplay Update for Quinn or reversion of her ultimate? It's pretty terrible, both for the player and the enemy and eats up way too much of her power budget. Lot of Quinn mains, including myself are failing to find success with her. And anything on Ashe? I miss seeing her in Pro Play and she's not too good in Solo Q right now.
: Na fuck her Quinn is a cancerous champ that has no counterplay for melees If she loses her ability to completely shit on every melee in the game I'm all for giving her a rework
Nothing says "I'm in bronze" more than this reply. Did you even read what he posted?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 12
Quinn needs early attack speed as the Domination tree doesn't grant any, as an Assassin- marksman. Maybe shave off some attack speed from her W (from 80 - 60% max rank) for a 10% increase to her base attack speed? When I play her with Electrocute I feel like I have to start a dagger with how taxing it is.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 10
Oh no I'm not feeling that change to targeted spells at all.
Vad Nova (NA)
: Game has gone downhill hard (rant warning)
The disparity of subject matter between the boards and Reddit is incredible. It's because Riot's PR is always on Reddit spewing memes 24/7 and getting them to suck their dicks, while as actually concerning questions are raised here and written off as salt by Reddit.
: I'm RiotMEMEMEMEMEME AMA about Champion/VGU Development!
Why did you let Riot Repertoir ruin Quinn?
: Details on our extra patch coming in December!
Anything for {{champion:133}} ? As an auto attack based champion, It's difficult trading and farming since she lost any attack speed from old runes with the domination tree.
: if you haven't played her, then stfu. Riven is fucking garbage right now, there is no point of picking her when you can go braindead tanks like maokai, sejuani, rammus, etc. 49% wr and 5% pick rate is terrible, maokai has a 54% wr and a 7% pick rate.
I knew I didn't need to look up your to see that you're a Riven main. The champ is fine, as is. In what world are "braindead" tanks that you are also currently playing in the preseason like Sejuani and Rammus played in the top lane? Lmao, what a joke. At least mask your account before posting biased nonsense.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 17
It must be about time for the yearly Riven buffs.
: Riven has ~50% winrate in platinum+. am not sure why is she included here. shes a fairly difficult champion and has a fairly high playrate. similar case for camille. there are champions for much lower winrate. I don't get why do both of these and fiora have to get buffed whenever they aren ot at 50%. darius by comparison is an easier champion and has winrate among the other top lane troll picks in vayne galio and lissandra I mean. Riven has near unparalleled kill pressure top lane. any trade you take with her you're losing half your health from level 3 on. I would absolutely hate it if she gets buffed.
Classic Riot favoritism. Riven can't go a patch without having a 50%+ win rate, even though she's picked a lot.
Rioter Comments
Broporo (NA)
: You still received leaverbuster penalties because you had left the match long enough to be marked as a leaver. In the case of online games, leaving for a good portion of time will have a lasting effect on the game whether you still won or not.
> [{quoted}](name=Broporo,realm=NA,application-id=osqw6G4M,discussion-id=gflEwxth,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-13T05:14:51.739+0000) > > You still received leaverbuster penalties because you had left the match long enough to be marked as a leaver. In the case of online games, leaving for a good portion of time will have a lasting effect on the game whether you still won or not. Even though I was the reason why we won in the first place? Lost 36 LP for carrying a game. Very unfair.
  Rioter Comments
Porocles (NA)
: Hey there, what OS is this on? I'm not sure that we'll be able to remove the leaverbuster, but you can certainly ask in your ticket for consideration. I recommend going over the [connection issues]( guide as well, but you may want to take a break from matchmade games for now until this gets fixed up!
El Capitan 10.11.6 . Thanks, I'll check out the guide although it has never happened like that before.
Porocles (NA)
: I don't recommend queuing up for anymore matchmade games for now until this gets fixed up, otherwise your [leaverbuster]( penalty could escalate. It sounds like your connection is having trouble specifically reaching the game server, even if your internet is solid. Try out our [hextech repair tool]( to auto-configure your firewall settings and the steps in our [connection issues]( to help. Test it out in a custom game, though!
Hey Porocles, I just got a Leaverbuster for the same issue. Internet and laptop are working fine, but I randomly disconnected from the loading screen, and reconnected to a remade game that gave me a five game low priority queue. Can you help me? I created a ticket too (#32534901) but I know it won't be answered anytime soon with preseason stuff going on.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 10
Any initial thoughts on Grasp of the Undying?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 27
Repertoir - the brains behind the Urgot rework has a 37% win rate on him.
Meddler (NA)
: We'll be looking at Galio today to see if something's needed there or not. We liked the right click approach to Guardian too in theory. In practice it led to far too many accidental activations though.
This shouldn't be the standard anymore man. Let something broken run wild in SoloQ for two days then hotfixing it. The game is about to enter its 8th competitive season, get it together.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 25
Sudden Impact out of stealth? Oh yes, more indirect Twitch buffs is definitely what's needed right now. Every AD assassin champion that can stealth has a dash in their kit, there's no need for this change.
Rayven (NA)
: Preseason Healthbar Update
Will these changes affect when Skaarl remounts onto Kled? Maybe there's something for it on Live, but I can't ever see it in the heat of battle, and there's nothing worse than him suddenly getting 1/2 his health back when he's about to die.
: Worlds should not have been on patch 7.18
Worlds: passive farming > light trading > passive farming > late game itemization > teamfight > baron/elder > game over It's boring as fuck.
: I hope the balance team has learned a valuable lesson from watching worlds 2017
: Hey Meddler, any context as to why {{champion:113}} Sejuani's armor and MR stats are getting nerfed on the PBE?
she's overtuned simple as that
Darkrown (EUNE)
: Hi Meddler! Anything planned for Quinn at the moment? She's kind of in a weird spot right now. I really like playing her but I'm not even sure which lane to take her anymore :/
if I take her top I'll just get quickly outscaled by a bruiser or a tank with bramble vest and tabis, and if I take her mid, I have no wave clear and become prone to crowd control lockdown by way of her E. I hate how the rework failed to address that. I think it'd be a step in the right direction if they brought back bonus damage on Q based on missing health to minions/monsters only in exchange for the mechanic that renders creeps hit by Q unable to attack.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 3
I know some fighters/bruisers got small buffs to their abilities, but will marksmen and/or assassins receive increases to their base AD to compensate for the runes?
: I have Mastery 7 on Quinn I just noting that I have seen a lot of hate for her from melee champ mains
Just banter from bad players that refuse to itemize properly.
: Any thoughts for Quinn? Since a lot of melee champs hate existing whenever she gets picked.
{{item:3076}} {{item:3047}} for 2000 gold. She can't do anything anymore until she gets 4 items. The last Quinn you played with lost to Darius who had Thornmail. Stop this circlejerk.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 22
YES, you need to nerf Twitch as soon as possible. What kind of shit is that? He's been dominating the bot lane for far too long and making games very unfair when he's ahead. You won't hesitate to nerf other champs as soon as they see 5 minutes in the spotlight.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 6
Whatever happened to the acceptance of champions being played in different lanes like Ziggs bot? With those nerfs to Lucian on PBE, it seems like that's not the direction Riot wants to take anymore, no?
: > [{quoted}](name=rathy Aro,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=ZAdYKnhP,comment-id=001d0000,timestamp=2017-09-01T17:43:23.031+0000) > > Quinn has never been intended to play as an adc. She plays fine from top and mid and the rioter who reworked specifically said he expected her to be good mid. I understand that it can confuse people and maybe riot can clear up her role, but there's nothing actually wrong with her. Rioter who reworked her also got a LOT of unhappy and dissatisfied players because it made Valor feel more of a pet carrying you around than feeling an actual member of the duo. Quinn's pbe thread was easily the largest out of every other marksman being updated then- and not for good reasons. Latest balance changes she went through stated that they wanted to push her away from burst and more into DPS (which is what adcs do by book), by reducing the AD ratio on ult and increasing the % att speed you get from W (those were dev comments btw). So, "never intended to play as adc" and "nothing actually wrong with her"? Yeah, I don't think so really... It's not like Graves whose update clearly intended for him to be played as a jungler/not adc (tho people still play him there)
Couldn't agree more. She was okayish after the rework but since the nerfs to aspects of her kit she now suffers from an identity crisis once again. Passive - Her passive scales with crit chance - perfect for an ADC. Q - Her Q applies nearsight and renders monsters unable to attack - perfect for a jungler. W - Her W increases her DPS tremendously - perfect for an ADC. E - Her E is an engage/disengage tool - perfect for a top laner. R - Her R is a roaming tool - perfect for a mid laner or jungler. {{champion:133}} Quinn's entire kit is all over the place and there is no clear place to take her. With that, some of her abilities like E make it unsafe to take her where there is potential for high CC like mid or bot. They should remove the ability for her Q to make monsters unable to attack and bring back bonus damage (to minions/monsters only) based on missing health. This will help her waveclear, and make it a bit easier to take her mid where she was intended, or jungle where she should be able to shine due to her ultimate.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 29
Keystone Idea: Tactical Nuke - 20 kill streak summons nuclear bomb in the middle lane killing every champion (even those in stasis), creep, shopkeeper, river ducks and ending the game with Victory for the team that summoned it.
: i love her pretty sure i have damn near the most mastery alive on her ... but in higher elos she doesnt really get fed like she is in that gif. and when ur behind its kinda like well ima go afk farm now
ugh why build ghostblade on her at all? what a waste of a slot duskblade is all u need.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 25
You're considering buffing what may be the most toxic part of Yasuo's kit? Lol
Meddler (NA)
: Current thinking is it'll most likely be 5 keystones in total (5 choices of path, with 3 keystones per path). That could still change though. I suspect Duskblade will need further changes after 7.15, we'll see where those put it before committing to anything though.
Please don't nerf Duskblade any more than what's planned for 7.15. It'll make so many champs obsolete.
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Ars Arcánum

Level 110 (NA)
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