: I hope they forget to update that, sadly we lost the glory that was MS paint {{champion:164}} so probably not.
: Jinx has range advantage and AS
Jhin has better utility, burst and kiting DPS(not the same as standing DPS) Point?
: {{champion:110}} and mobility in the same sentence. There is a glitch in the Matrix. Edit: Jhin is far less mobile of the listed ADC that have less run speed. Ashe has a perma slow, Kog also has a long range AoE slow, MF/Jinx hav runspeed passive and all the others have jumps.
Jhin also has passive MS that is easier to proc than Jinx.
: I love it when I see teemo as riven. I just buy edge of night and a red trinket. and then he becomes a walking peice of gold to chase down and kill.
: which is why she has 57% win rate against renek xd thanks for teaching me the game
: oh so winrate only matters when its for champions _you_ don't like to play against? especially when jhin has eleven times the pick rate of quinn top pick a side
Rioter Comments
: Quinn is right-clicking me non-stop for 5 seconds as renekton
Renekton was bullied? Oh no... how terrible.
Rioter Comments
Áery (NA)
: I get Caitlyn traps are apart of her gameplay identity
Can people stop using the word "literally" incorrectly? Downvoted on that alone. It isn't an a word to put emphasis on a statement.
: You're grossly overestimating abilities. The average is the average because it's average. Just because you or I are good at something innately, does not necessarily mean that it is common occurrence. I realize that being a gamer is less stigmatized now but still, we enjoy games because we're probably good at them. You could find 5 year olds who are masters at tetris, it doesn't mean the game should revolve around those types of 'gamer prodigies.
Not really. Takes a few minutes for most people to get use to controlling a new videogamed mechanics.
: If one day we get more Toxic skins other than Dr. Mundo
http://mobaskins.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Iw0Jwvx.jpg http://i.imgur.com/PdhEnYa.jpg
: When you are hiding in a warded bush
https://a.dilcdn.com/bl/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2013/02/Cheshire-Cat-GIF.gif When you are Teemo hiding in a warded bush
: Well you're correct in saying they don't talk, but it doesn't mean they just ignore the post. Meddler has stated that he sees the massively upvoted posts but just doesn't reply as there is either nothing to add or someone else has already stated Riot's position. But you're right, reds are often inclined not to open that can of worms. After all, look at Fizz Enthusiast. I would not be surprised if the gameplay boards chased him off for good. In a similar vein, I wish I was here when Phreak roamed the boards.
Fair enough. I just despise endless circle jerking. It's why I try to keep my topics productive, educational and fresh. I try not to recycle the same topic for too long a period of time, if it needs to be said again I will say it directly in response to a post. Seeing every other week "lol adcs broken riot favirtism right guiz?" followed by "tanks do th one shot adc!!?!?!?! again!?!?!?!" gets old.
: PSA: I can't gank your lane if you push it like you're giving birth.
All the people saying "Just tower dive" Oh yes {{champion:92}} lemme bunny hop in circles spamming laugh while you take more damage from tower shots and minions than I could deal with my full kit. No, better to let that pesky little rabbit overextend then get a gank.
: Careful, lest you start a circlejerk about circlejerks. :O I agree it can get annoying at times, but this is usually the only way to get Riot's attention. This has no bearing on my opinion of the topic , but posts like this usually draw attention.
I have to disagree there. Circlejerking is a large part of why Riot doesn't talk on balance posts and sticks to memes, games, art, story and questions about gameplay/patches.
: The idea that Garen is a noob champ that doesn't reward skill is a fallacy that isn't supported by data. Chamion.gg actually has his experience curve as about average. He may not have a very mechanically demanding kit, but his predictabiliy, underloaded kit, and lack of outplay potential gives him a rather steep learning curve even when the act of actually playing him is fairly easy. Hell, I have a 60%+ winrate on Garen for the 3rd season in a row, so clearly I'm doing **something** different,
Playing better in general =/= that champion having a reasonable skill cap and outplay potential. Garen drops from 50% win rate in bronze with 130k games played. To 44% win rate in top tier with... 16 games played. Pros don't play him. Darius however, does extremely well in higher tiers of play, because he has tools and is fallible, as such he is allowed to outplay with said tools, and his successes are rewarded with better numbers.
: What are Lee Sin's weaknesses?
And so another perpetual boards circlejerk continues! When this one is over, what fantastic circlejerk awaits us? Will the boards ever get sore from patting one another on the back and saying "oh yeh u r rite bro!"? Find out next time on League of Circlejerks!
: "ADC in 2017 LUL" meanwhile ranged ADs being played competitively in 5/5 roles LUL
And another perpetual circlejerk continues. The boards will continue permanently patting one another on the back saying "omg yis u r rite!"
: The problem there is that you're forgetting why Garen exists: To be an entry level juggernaut/bruiser. Why do you think he's so infalliable? Why do you think he's made purposefully easy? Why do you think he's got such an easy playstyle? Because he will 9/10 times be the first character someone picks up when it comes to bruiser DPS characters. If you make Garen healthier for the higher-tiers, you greatly risk making him more difficult and thus a worse starter-choice. It's also why the villain mechanic given doesn't make him easier or harder to play, it just gives him an added bonus.
A champion can be easy to pick up without being worthless in high tier play, like Darius. Darius is easy to pick up however has a high skill cap. Warwick rework kept him easy to use but gave him a better power budget. Ashe is easy to play and viable in all tiers with still some level of mastery. But some champions are too easy to pick up and have no room for mastery. Which is unfair to Garen mains, we can't leave him as a shit who never sees play because noobs apparently need an easy climbing tool to start with(as if Gamers are incapable of mastering basic mechanics)
agbudar (NA)
: garen happens to counter most riven players. big surprise op doesn't like garen. not that you don't make great points on his kit btw. but tbh i dont think garen is a worse Darius, although they look the same they play very differently. garen is not about tactical play its about strategy. and quite frankly a simple infallible strategy is often the best one.
Garen countering Riven is a misconception. Garen counters bad Rivens, Garen counters almost no champions when they are played decently and account for what Garen does. I personally don't consider myself a bad Riven, so Garen doesn't bother me. If anything I want him to be able to counter Riven, good Rivens. By actually having tools and a healthy power budget.
: a lot of junglers can gank from over walls and odd angles ... also lane ganks is always viable... and if its a 2 vs 1 and you time your gank right with the wave crashing at the turret you can dive it and kill the enemy or force them off turret and siege turret not all ganks have to end as kills, sometimes a wave reset, lane control, pressure, turrets, making the enemy burn summoners, or having to back which denies them gold and experience is just as good as a kill maybe you need to realize the game isnt a bout kills. its about objectives and map control and obtaining more gold then your enemy to push your advantage to win the game. kills are just a part of what helps you achieve this maybe you might want to reconsider what you think the game is about and how you approach to playing the game
: Darius grows extremely obnoxious though. With a {{item:3071}} and some resistance it hardly matters if he misses his Q or if he feeds a few kills in lane. He just goes in, auto attacks and ults away for 800 HP on someone. I really don't like him, feels like you absolutely must CC and kill him before he can fight back or you die and he heals up again :(
Darius and Illoai are 'annoying' because they are viable. Garen, Nasus and Morde are not annoying because they are trash.
: Are you saying he is weak? Or his power budget is spread poorly over his abilities? or both? I dont think he is weak, he's vulnerable to kiting, not really a problem for 95% of us. I feel like you just dont like his kit, you can make all the same statements about Master Yi, yes his kit is super simple, no you cant stuff it up, there are no skill shots but whats the difference between a good and a bad Yi.. Positioning. A huge part of league is about positioning for teamfights, tower dives, laning. The difference between a good and bad player on these champs is their positioning. The difference between a good Morgana or blitzcrank is landing skillshots. I dont think we want every champion in league to be focused on skillshots do we? When I'm playing top i would rather have a super simple kit with nothing to keep track of so I can look for TP's and management of the wave to setup freezes. Just my 2c
Garen is rather weak right now and completely unviable for high tier play. He will never receive significant buffs because his power is all focused on excessively simple mechanics that lack what people call "counterplay". That is what I am saying.
: Aren't all other juggernauts just worse versions of Darius and Illaoi?
Essentially. And all for the same reason. Because people defend easy to play point and click designs. They tie Riot's hands on fixing them, and thus they remain garbage instead.
j0ker 07 (NA)
: I understand the point of this post, but what's wrong with having some "easy" champs? Champs like Garen allow less experienced players to focus on the macro game, rather than all of the micro mechanics. Why is it so important that every champ have the same"potential?".
So Garen can be viable in any tier of play. Most new players do not get in the game and pick Garen because he is easy. They get in and pick whatever badass, hard to olay or memeish champion appeals to them. Gamers started shooting themselves in the foot when they collectively decided they were all incapable if basic videogame mechanics and needed an easy mode. Even the hardest champions(Riven, Jhin, Yasuo) are not actually all that hard. But any competent gamer could at least play Darius. They are not 5 year olds who need somebody to hold their hand. We cannot forever doom a champions design based on the assumption that ten year olds under the games age limit need some easy way to climb. Do you know how many Garen mains are miserable because the champion is an unhealthy, infallible, low skill cap champion who has no power budget? Already spoke to a few before posting this. And seem a few since posting it.
: Oh my God stop with this same post over and over. Riot has clearly stated some champs are designed as starter champs. Garen will ALWAYS be easier than Darius because he's given to new players. He's not designed to be a high elo skill based champ. Not everyone needs to be high elo viable. We do need some point and click starters.
No we don't. You are severely underestimating gamers and people. Gamers shot themselves in the foot the day they started adding an easy setting to every game.
: The problem with Garen is that Riot has keeps him super beginner friendly. Keeping him as a champ that 10 year old Little Tim can pick up & succeed with in his 1st few games of League. Removing room for failures so Tim could still be effective while learning the game. Limiting the overall power Garen's kit can provide. I just hope the Warwick rework helped Riot learn that beginner champs can have a higher skill ceiling.
The problem I see with that is it is against the rules to even play League unless you are 13+. When I was 13 I was doing complex game mechanics on fighting games, RTS games and platformers. I also was killer at card throwing and biking :> Though now in my 20s, my youngest sibling could play moderately difficult champions to a 50%+ win rate within a week of playing. Riot is drastically underestimating humans, let alone experienced gamers.
: I agree with the gist of your post, but Garen can fail, which is to say his E can fail. It is within the enemy's power to avoid the full duration of Garen's E, and Garen can misuse it and not get the full duration off. It's not much, but it is there. But yes, Garen's kit is far more binary and poorly designed. That's why I'm mad. Darius got this great rework that fixed most of his problems and made him a much better champion for it. Garen got his stats nuked from orbit and got a shitty gimmick tacked on. His rework was awful, and Riot is content to just let him rot for the next few years as a result of their own incompetence.
Hello! I am mad too! I use to love Garen, but after a while him being so linear it felt like I wasn't getting anywhere as a player by playing him. He has no skill growth and is permanently just worse version of Darius. I can only hope he gets a real rework soon after the priority champions.
RexSaur (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=AninLegions777,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uM9t1TEy,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-02-12T23:37:27.840+0000) > > Don't know why you got downvoted. You spoke truth. ADC's spend so much on Damage(of which two are amongst the most expensive in the game) but Tanks just build cheap stuff. Because this forum is made of low elo tank players.
: that makes it a damage problem if 2 entire classes of champions cant do their job because they cant survive long enough. when it happened to adcs balance team jumped right on that in a month its been happening to tanks and fighters for little more than 3 years now.
Bullshit, tanks were just OP at the end of S6 and S5 was literally when we had the tank meta...
: As did I, but he's unfortunately fallen by the wayside with recent trends and changes. I think there's a lot of potential in him for a REAL rework, but I wouldn't know what to suggest to start brainstorming possible changes.
Me neither. I would leave that in more qualified hands. I am bad at champion design. I am only okay at philosophy. The one champion I did design got thrown out instantly as worthless and weak. XD
: Good post and explanations! Coming from a {{champion:86}} and {{champion:122}} player perspective, this makes a lot of sense. Another way of saying TL;DR is that {{champion:86}} is (according to Riot) the polar opposite of {{champion:122}} , and in this player's opinion, there needs to be some gameplay-changes made to {{champion:86}} to more accurately reflect this ideology/vision for him. That's just my two bits on it, take it as you will.
Thank you for your input. I use to play a lot of Garen, but eventually realized there were champions with more worth investing into. I hope he gets a better rework eventually :) Darius is cool, but my BFF plays him so I don't play him much.
Rioter Comments
: If marksmen are having issues surviving...
Because they are building Blood Thirster, Phantom Dancer and Guardian Angel instead.
Freebo (NA)
: As a Riven Main i dont understand why animation cancelling is allowed to exist...
Please do not join in on this unhealthy circlejerk. Every champion in League can cancel their basic attack animations and certain abilities/items. My first encounter with Animation cancelling was on Ashe and Twisted Fate champion tutorials when I was new to League. It is a standard technique and applies to every champion.
: > It takes forever just to acquire one character, Hi-Rez. You had me up until this one. SMITE is half the age of league and has far more going on for it, in every way, shape, and form.
Except playerbase and balance :^)
: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/NnGapO1H-league-of-legends-then-vs-now Gotchu.
: Looks like Riot is addressing damage creep via PBE changes
Bout time~ I hope my post "LoL then vs now" helped us along at least a little to this point :')
: I think another problem is the fact we still have (item-based) life steal. It essentially allows a fairly large number of champs to encroach on the identity of actual drain tanks, such as a {{item:3072}} making an adc a drain tank for whatever bloody reason
Lifesteal is a defensive stat that can be shut down by CC. Mages get a lot more HP/Armor/MR items than ADCs do. So ADCs get lifesteal.
: {{champion:92}} mains about to {{summoner:14}} via spontaneous combustion, and they will face the {{champion:21}} of being {{item:1083}}ed from the player base by permanent bans due to {{champion:29}} reactions leading to their accounts ending up in self-dug {{champion:104}}.
As you will find out from RossBoomSocks, with the exception of some trolls and memes intentionally acting that way, most Riven mains just roll with the punches and laugh along. I love toxic Riven Main jokes.
: Heartseeker Katarina
Every champion should have a Heartseeker skin :) Esp Thresh.
: Except grievious wounds and healing is in a fine spot right now. Before u say im some pos adc main check my acc. im a vlad main.. the champ that gets cucked by GW
Ralanr (NA)
: I dread the day when there's no grevioud wounds to fight Mundo with.
Rioter Comments
: If Grievous had half-effectiveness on innate and full on purchased lifesteal/spellvamp/omnivamp and if purchased lifesteal didn't heal such a ridiculous amount, that'd be nice.
Maybe, or just remove it and rebalance champions around it not existing.
Sahn Uzal (EUW)
: And so another one tries their luck. My friend, I salute you. For this post will likely be downvoted into oblivion like every other GW thread. I completely agree with you, and have upvoted this thread. Let's see where it'll end up.
A lot of people think removing an attribute of the game = dumbing it down. Sometimes instead what it is doing is taking out 'false complexity' and making the system easier to work with, so that they can add in more complex and meaningful features. But I do understand people's fear of games being dumbed down. My dad works for Blizzard.
Rioter Comments
: I just wanna point out that Annie's E is a better tank steroid than Jax's ultimate
Leo1024 (NA)
: Please yes, so i don't get another Malphite in my ranked who not only built a death cap but a hurricane after
...............................................................................................wat
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Arya Riven

Level 12 (NA)
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