: FAQ: Eternals
I'm going to say from the perspective of purchasing incremental amounts of work from a company this isn't the worst, but it's such a feels bad fiasco. My thoughts have always been I'm paying something to any company I get something from, Google especially, but league is a bit of an odd case, where it doesn't always require something of you, and different people can pay different amounts. Core idea I see League as free to play, pay to be prettier, but a secondary effect of this is that how skilled you are isn't linked to money. Eternals break that feeling of skill as entirely separate from money. If someone can pay to show they're higher skill. Riot needs to be really careful with how they recoup from this, it's not wise to just continue down this path. Now in a vacuum, devoid of context on how this feels, no it's not unreasonable to pay for something that is cosmetic. It's odd that the skill progression is locked behind the payment. If you could be unlocking things and then buy or unlock it for free later, that would be better, buy no progress before purchasing is such bleh. Mmmk bring the context back and all of that still feels meh, and even if I have to use three champion shards of the same champion to make a level in eternals happen for me I'll do that, it's a disgusting grind but I'd do it, it has a free option. Something. Anything he'll make it cost blue essence orange essence and a champ shard but something. Give me a free option.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 5
Hey meddler, few questions. Riot game(s)? I'm hopeful for an RPG or an mmo {{sticker:sg-lux}} What's the most elegant solution you've seen to a design problem? what's your favorite button in league? which event has been your favorite in league?
Adalvar (EUW)
: Have you considered the fact that Taliyah will not comeback into midlane as long as her Q remains single target? It was what kicked her out of midlane in the first place. Granted, her waveclear back then was too good, but rather than simply reducing her minion damage, you simply removed almost half of her lategame teamfighting damage. Give her back her Q AOE, maybe at a reduced level/with a reduction against minions/monsters, but give it back.
I understand where you're coming from, and this would get tali back in mid for sure, but it would also bring back the same problems as before, good roaming, wave clear, and scaling. honestly I think a more interesting way to get tali more functional in mid would be something that plays on her thematic as a powerful if not fully trained elementalist. something could be like, what if a stone from her Q didn't hit minions? like how she currently goes pew . . . pew . . pew pew pew maybe the first one she fires once she finds that rhythm would be a good candidate, cause lemme tell you, if you ever skip rocks well it's like it's not even touching the water (or minions) and that's what her q reminds me of. I mean let it hit cannons large monsters and champions and pets and the like, but hey, sometimes rocks just fly high. I think it also puts her poke pattern more towards, okay, I want to line up my shots to hit the third rock ..... now! as a decent moment of excitment in lane, and for the opponent a decent way to offer counterplay, pay attention to the first two rocks they'll show you where she's aiming! She could use some love outside of jungle, and I might've fallen for her in the jungle, but I think she needs a place in mid too. I don't know exactly how to do exactly that, but I think changing her lane trade patterns to give her a little more versatility would be good.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 3
Thank you for the added clarity and explanations, for what it’s worth when I do play league now and again I play because I can trust that even if you guys don’t get it right you’re willing to tune and adjust until things are in a good place, I know it’s a bit of an odd place to say it but you guys make something that’s brought some friends I never would have made otherwise, and I really appreciate it. It’s super nice to enjoy a game that is still taking risks to strive toward betterment here’s to you rito. Make a sticky note of this or something and cheer up a coworker, cause you guys are awesome.
: Call me a bitch I don't believe you
as someone working in software. do you even grasp the complexity of what these bugs could even be? they're workin on it. PBE wouldn't have caught the aurelion sol bug at worlds, live servers didn't, it's a different environment, it happens and it sucks but people are working hard to resolve this. I trust them to resolve this.
: Tank changes for 8.16
PBE todo list 1. Highfive Maple N' team cause tank buffs 2. Ponder 15% DR mumu 3. play Syndra and practice Lissandra because edgy egrills and small buffs 4. play Aurelion Sol with his _**(⊃。•́‿•̀。)⊃━☆゚.*・。゚ NEW SKIN AND IT'S CHROMAS . * ・ 。゚☆━੧༼ •́ ヮ •̀ ༽୨**_ 5. cry because tanks can survive my deeeeeps _how dare they_ 6. enjoy League because it's a fun game and it's better with tanks even if I can't hurt them *_as_* much
: I play a fair bit of Rammus as well, and personally think that his current curve (weak early game scaling into late game) is appropriate given that his primary contribution is nullifying the impact of one of the opposing teams carry threats, especially as they complete critical item purchases. The stronger the enemy carries get, the stronger Rammus should get imo - he shouldn't just necessarily be guaranteed a strong early game. Let me know what you think of that?
I think his concern is less one of when rammus should be strong, I think you nailed it down pretty well, he scales in how valuable his disable is. Seems to me he thinks the lows for early game are pretty low, but I honestly think that he's missing a part of the data when he's looking at the WR/GameTime graph, because it does not come with a graph of #OfGamesEndingAt/GameTime and that can be a bit warping as to how you interpret WR/GameTime. If rammus more than half of rammus games end at 15- 22 minutes, it could be argued that he doesn't have enough of an impact early to be able to get to late; moreover if more than half of his games go beyond 25 minutes, he could be forcing games to last longer so his value is greater. All speculation, and mostly just saying I don't have enough data presented to make an argument. "Not enough variables... hmm... not nearly enough variables."
: We were playing on an iteration yesterday that was 5%. I ended up going something like 16/2 going full tank mumu. I was also able to pick up an early bramble and tabai which helped, but between that test and a few others it did feel like 5% was pushing it a bit too far. It's weird because we're talking about an order of magnitude that looks like (3% or 5%) but it felt like it actually went too far. This gives us another good lever to tune in the future should we need it though which is nice.
Points of Clarification * damage reduction applies before armor/mr reduction right? * if I have 49 bonus mr/ar do I get 1.5% DR or none? * how fast does the value update? (rabadons used to take a second to increase the increase actually been curious about how fast stats update and if they apply properly, like Aatrox E followed by an instant, and i mean next frame tiamat. tbh always curious but figured it would never matter much, and then synergies like leo W aftershock, but I've never know the margin for how fast are you allowed to be)
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 27
On Leona imparticular, I know it's an essentially made point that she can't proc her own passive, that base damage would be ridiculous solo. Wellll at least at the same rate as allies can proc it, if however Leona was able to proc her passive once for herself she'd be a pretty alright but still non optimal solo laner. Just make her passive a three stack proc with auto to pop. I don't think it solves her and solo leo becomes god tier, but it's something, doesn't seem like it'd take much art to do, and seems like it offers some more room for optimization for leo, and some counterplay to it to an enemy, I.E. it costs a lot of mana to pop everything at the same time, she's left with long cds on e and w minimum if she misses e (assuming priming w to hit right as e dash ends) even should leo get to the enemy they've either used damage in retaliation, or a way to get out before the auto after Q (assuming they have to already have three stacks to be able to pop, as in you can't proc two stacks with Q, you have to auto after Q) Reward the all in Leona already likes, add some finer optimization to hardcore leo players, comes with free counterplay, **_sunglasses_**.
: We actually want to test this in one region and see how it feels for players. Generally we agree where there's some games where you just want to get the fuck out, and the current surrender system keeps you stuck longer than you want. This is especially true when you have a toxic flamer on your team who will refuse to surrender just to spite you, but also applies to highly snowballed games. No idea yet if it's something we'll end up turning on everywhere, or that we'll just test and then revert, but it would definitely help in some cases.
I don’t like where the road this takes us down leads. I like playing league of legends, and I enjoy winning or losing though it’s taken me a fair bit of time to just enjoy this game. I don’t like being that one guy that says no to the surrender and gets flames for wanting to keep playing the game I love. Win or loose I value my time spent here. It’s just really got me down having people just give up, and it always does! But now they feel justified and that how dare I be the one to keep them from a more successful game. I’m not going to say I miss when games went to 40 minutes but with how compatified the game has become I can’t but wonder if I’ll get to have those games where you don’t know who it’ll come down to winning the baron fight, in my games now I don’t know if I’ll get the chance to see baron spawn. Either way I hope I can still enjoy league in the future, I place my trust in you guys trying to make a fun game.
: Touching base on Mid-season (marksman and snowballing)
I’ve wondered if there could be a way for adcs that like a really late game build to have an early crutch item like storm razor be more satisfying later in the game, and my thought was why not evolve storm razor at 100% Crit, given by the time that comes online you had to have purchased an ie two upgraded zeal items and realistically boots, seems a decent place to allow an upgraded item for late game Crit adcs exist. 🤔 maybe it helps with late game satisfaction. Maybe it makes adc feel like they have nothing to do till five items. But a small upgraded bonus would be good, like tuning the cd on stormrazor to something you can upgrade to be lower, or tick down regardless of attacking. The current one has this nebulous point at which reaching X bonus attack speed means getting the buff almost instantly, why not make it a more satisfying goal to upgrade.
Rehab (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=iQfa47rE,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2018-07-20T16:28:50.270+0000) > > The risk of overbuffing and pushing all non marksmen out of bot's on our mind. At the same time we feel it's pretty important to improve crit marksmen feels, so don't want to use that as an argument for doing nothing. We believe there's a midpoint between the pre 8.11 state of things and 8.11's and changes here are looking to find that. It's shifting some things back towards the prior state, but certainly not going the whole distance. We're also still working on the details, so while the direction on PBE is what's intended the exact numbers may still change. > > In terms of testing changes like this PBE games aren't very useful themselves, given as you say small sample size, plus things like limited pool to matchmake from, people not trying seriously, lot of afking/quitting etc. We tend to rely more on internal tests, community discussion off datamined changes and mathematical analysis of changes instead as a result. Hey Meddler, If you think this brings diversity, then let me ask you something: If the intentions of these changes is non-marksmen playing botlane, then when will the changes for marksmen to be playable in mid/top? I want to play Jinx mid or top as well. I want base stat and Item guts for every single role, not just the one I play the most. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
I mean mage items took a hit already, granted, just by the nature of how abilities in league are, generally damage with some conditions for doing it, (skillshot, range, cooldown, and delay to name just a few) and some extra effects. Just as a matter of being able to function, in order to even have a chance in hell a mage needs to be able to push damage out against at least minions enough so that an ad champions auto attacks don’t just win he push war that is midland by default. Mage’s get no bonus auto damage for just building ap unless it’s built into their kit. So a lot of their damage has to be skewed into abilities, this has a lot of propagating issues in terms of lane, if your opponent out pushes you have to farm and roam behind them, this was especially clear when viktor was meta in competitive, auto push waves and roam. But if you give adcs, especially Crit adcs the ability to dps down a minion wave, you lose a lot of variety in potential lanes and bring an even bigger issue to the fore, ADCs in general have some of the best, safest, most consistent damage outputs late game. If you gave them all a lane phase that competed with the push that some champions have in other lanes you have less interesting adcs, and less interesting games. That said there’s a place for some adcs in other lanes, I take Caitlyn mid in plenty of funny matchups, you just rofl kassadin pre six, and farm safely till fights after he’s six. Or taking jinx top, she’s a lot of fun to have vs someone like riven, always baiting them up for your jungler to gank, takes good wave management, but it’s fun and interesting if you’ve got a good team.
: Cursor Update on PBE v2
This cursor looks much better, sword is too smol, I can’t tell if there’s a difference between bushes or not, so long as you add faker auto targeting to the final product I’ll be happy.
: Hello Meddler, About Syndra, it was mentionned that you guys would look where the Q passive revert puts her and help her if need be. The Q passive revert was great (much better design), but it wasn't a straight buff because it took the old Q passive away, and so wasn't that much power added. It is clear now that it wasn't enough to put her up to par. She's still weak. Would you guys consider looking to help her in 8.13? If so, what would you guys consider? Base stats? Cooldowns? Mana costs? Something else?
Quick note as someone that’s kept up with Syndra since forever <3 typically I’ve seen rioters try finding something for her fail, in regards to a healthy impact in the game, yeah they can number tune her to be balanced but the end result is that she still has he same problems systematically she’s always had, good aoe damage, good aoe stun, single target burst. Eventually she needs to lose one of these, and it’s unlikely to be R. More likely E. W is interesting but generally just flailing around spamming buttons, or stealing buffs when smite mid is a thing
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 27
I know Syndra was featured on the last post just wanted to giggle a little, overlord forte was right, and Syndra is back to essentially pre mymu, but on the topic of reverting aspects of a champion to a known state, with more informed information, I’m familiar with that as a means of stepping back from a direction that wasn’t as good, but when it comes to this kind of thing do you take it more as a process of knowing 1000 ways not to make a light bulb
: Sad but true. Cant believe support item costs weren't increased as a result of the removal of sightstone. Support gold generation is insane for how efficient their items are
They also get less total multiplicative stats, and generally suffer most when their team is behind when their items cost to much
: this is more to help supports not just be slaves to their adc only
Just saying if you think adcs lack agency bot you’re not doing it right
: Hey Meddler,another Diamond Garen main over here, i would like to add to Riste's comment and mention how frustrating the villian Mechanic can be sometimes. 1) it doesnt update when your recent ally is killed. 2) it changes after a random amount of time(affecting no plan/ timing based fights). 3) the Ult itself is bugged at times, if the enemy flashes out while youre in rhe animation(sometimes it hits and sometimes it doesnt) this is insanely frustrating to play with. while the changes are appreciated fully,i believe Garen should have a 'skilled based Carry mechanic' for example Darius and his reset mechanic. A possibility would be that Garen empowers Allies after he kills the Villian( the buff can be discussed) this would not only help skilled Garen's have a win condition, but also help with Garen's identity in the game.
Maybe after killing the villain garen deals the bonus villain damages to all targets for X seconds
riste (NA)
: Hi Meddler - I'm one of the Garen players who reached Masters this season. I really would like to suggest that if you're still looking for minor work on Garen, I'd highly recommend starting with some QoL work on his kit. Nasus can stack infinitely but when he kills a champion/large monster/turret he gets double stacks. I really feel like Garen should get a similar treatment. One big deterrent in the experience of playing Garen is having to prioritize farm so when it's great encouraged to make high-impact teleport plays early, or roam with Q, Garen has to often sacrifice a few minion waves which are much more valuable to him than the average toplaner. Granting double W stacks in a similar fashion would allow Garen players to feel better about grouping earlier. Also, I talk with a large amount of people who are trying to make Garen jungle work, however having absolutely no passive pre-level 11, really hurts him. Would it ever be considered to keep his passive on in the jungle, but reduce it to 25%-50% effectiveness? Just a thought, seeing as the balance team once made changes to allow Nasus to jungle (even though we rarely see it). This will definitely help Lane Garen as well, if he wants to possibly take Gromp or Krugs while avoiding being at a wave placed near the enemy turret without flash, etc. Also, Trinity Force as you may or may not know has been picked up by many Garen players who wish to build more offensive. Black Cleaver isn't seen too often as many Garen players wish to capitalize on personal power vs team utility. What would benefit a Garen split-push would be the ability to cancel his spin sooner so he could cycle through Spellblade proc's easier while hitting a tower. Garen's spin can be cancelled early right now, however it currently isn't worth to cancel in its current iteration because in order to cancel it early, means having to sacrifice 3-auto attacks typically lategame, thanks to base attack speed scaling and Trinity Force on top of that. Lastly - would your team ever consider splitting his W active into 2 charges? I believe you're aware that W is the ability that has struggled the most with "oomph" in the past. It's power budget is a great faction around 6 seconds lategame. Instead of making a massive tenacity window on 1 0.75 second windows, I think what could be much interesting is making Garen's W have two charges with each having a 0.75 second window with around 50% tenacity. Each charge could have 2-3 seconds total of damage reduction, but would raise the skill cap of Garen even more when maneuvering in teamfights. Make executing the Villain grant a charge possibly if your team is even daring. I don't know what the exact vision of how you and your team want to keep Garen, but I'm certain you all aware that us long time Garen mains would love to express our mastery with more skill-expression, leading to more rewarding situations. Thank you for reading, and thanks for the effort you make to connect with us. :)
Hmmm going off this idea, in order to keep the gates window at the six seconds it might be better to go with *can be recast during to get the tenacity again
Meddler (NA)
: Probably lowering really early game gank impact. Looking at changing systems (XP gain, some camp stats) rather than individual junglers, at least initially.
Tbh I think it’d be worthwhile to have an ap bruiser item for jungle given the propensity for the ap champions that want to jungle to also want a little survivability how you’d deliver that without cursing the jungle with ap tank fizz, I leave to you, but it’d be nice to see a lost chapter jungle item, even if it just keeps the 10% haste on final item
: That can be solved in a much cleaner way: make casting Q on champions worthwhile enough so using Q on minions to hit R is a fair tradeoff. Maybe make it deal bonus damage (could be DoT to bring back the bleed Fizz players loved) on targets hit by ult, avoiding the infamous W-Q oneshots while still weakening Q-R without hurting his melee ult.
That wasn’t exactly the issue, the issue was the ability to cast R while Qing a champion, it left no reaction time because it just looked like fizz was using Q, the lack of clarity and skill involved made it feel rather unfair
: I honestly just come here because of his name
: Certainly a possibility. Ironically her and Graves are the ones that I think I've either been a part of or overheard more conversation around. Similar story to Graves in not being sure when/if we'll be able to bring her back, but we've definitely been talking about it.
: Hey man, adding additional damage to monsters or minions is something that we generally try to avoid if we can. That's not to say that we don't use it ever, but it's usually when we don't have another option. I totally agree that adding percent bonus damage to monsters is an easy way to accomplish a goal of "let Nautilus jungle", but there's also something to be said about us not being overly prescriptive of who can/can't jungle through the use of this mechanic. Personally I've gone back and forth on this quite a bit, at times I feel really strongly we should just do a pass on champs to put them in the jungle by adding bonus damage to monsters, but then other times I do agree with the argument that it's kind of a sloppy way of doing so, and sets us up for problems down the road. Not to mention the fact that Nautilus is currently struggling across the board, not just in the jungle, and some sort of signalling that's just "he's better in the jungle but no where else...sorry laners" is kinda shitty. That being said, we're currently looking at adding another line to this changelist that "should" be skew more heavily towards the jungle - likely early base shield on W or early bonus attack speed to help out with his early clear. Either of those changes will also obviously help out top and support, but should disproportionately aid his jungle clearing.
I think in general im on the side of not adding damage to monsters as a modifier to hamfist something into jungle. Honestly I think there just needs to be a first buy jungle item that basically assures most champions that would realistically jungle can jungle but at the cost of health something like after X spell hits on a monster next attack does W% of your current health up to Y or something akin to if you wet noodle long enough we help you out with some damage if you can stay healthy. Basically engineering something that would be good with Evelynn but then making it about being tanky and healthier. But I mean this is coming from someone who pondered temporary out of combat max mana on Lissandra passive. So with a grain of salt
: Lissandra’s passive
Some interesting thoughts have bounced around in my head, from crazy cc passive to out of compact max mana. But I think I found something, “If an enemy is movement impaired by Lissandra her next movement impairing spell applies brittle (X second cd)” Succinct I think. there’s a lot that Lissandra likes about this though, she like the ability to extend the duration of her cc with brittle, and this adds to that fantasy of planning controlling ice mage, imagine the perfect w after ult slow hits, so much brittle so little time. I think there merits of this are pretty good so with this you get the brittle damage which is nice , but thematically you’re getting even more control over time with the extended cc duration.
: Some years ago (Back on the old forums), there was red discussion of giving her a passive similar to Malphite's. I think that could be an interesting direction. >Passive: IceBorn Obstruction Lissandra takes 5-25% (Based on level) reduced damage from enemies while they are affected by the CC from her abilities (Anything that affects her live passive). This would encourage her more dive-heavy play styles. Reduced drastically early game to prevent her from auto-winning trades in lane phase. >Passive: IceBorn Legacy *"This is but a battle, I've already won the war."* After being out of combat for 5 seconds, Lissandra's **base** mana regen is increased by 100-500%. If we want to keep the sustain mechanic, this will let her become a mage Garen and loosen her itemization options a bit. >Iceborn Tactics When ever Lissandra CC's an enemy, she gains 10% bonus move speed for 1.5 seconds. If she CC's an enemy champion, she gains an additional 10% move speed and ignores unit collision. >While under the effect of Iceborn Tactics, Lissandra can recast <E> while immobilized. This does not remove the immobilizing effect. Because, during release, Riot identified her as a kiting poke mage. (>_>)
First one offers an interesting paradigm for defenses, and has more interactive gameplay than now, and better thematically The second one seem kinda meh, mana regen is probably the least interesting stat I can think of, might be better to just give her temporary max mana out of combat. I personally hate adding mobility to champions who have either high gated mobility like Lissandra and her e cd or no mobility like Syndra so three has garnered my ire for that practice, but nonetheless is a good passive and adds that really cool e mechanic.
Snowman Arc (EUNE)
: To be honest, I tend to like her passive more and more as time goes on. Having good lane control and lane pushing is essential for a mid laner, and having free spells to cast is necessary.
I personally dislike the lack of synergy with mana items, since you don’t spend the mana you don’t get the effects, and if you have manaflow band it’s consumed instead of not.
: Reduce the mana cost on q by 20 at all ranks. Make slow on q 20%, stacking an additional 20% with every following q up to mac 60%. Make her passive: Landing hard cc on a champion re sets your q cd and makes it empowered dealing 25% bonus damage
This is an interesting direction, it takes Lissandra more towards a combo burst mage, and pushes her damage to be even faster. Seems thematicly ill fitting and pushes her combo from q r wait for q w wait for q to an almost ryze like combo. Q slow stacking could be a cool mechanic though, and thematically fitting a controlling mage
Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Aurelion Solari,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FZizfGN9,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-03T09:09:41.636+0000) > > Lisaandra&amp;rsquo;s passive is fairly underwhelming now as manaflow band essentially does it&amp;rsquo;s job but better, and work on it has been unfruitful, so with all the crazy people on boards what cool stuff can you find to replace this passive and make Lissandra&amp;rsquo;s passive unique, cohesive, and visceral? Bonus points if you design like Camille&amp;rsquo;s designer. Here's my take on it: #New Passive: _**Black Ice Clusters**_ Upon hitting an enemy, Lissandra's spells shatter and leave Black Ice Clusters that deal damage to enemies that touch them and slow them for 1.5 seconds. If they stay in in a certain range of Black Ice clusters for 1.5 seconds, they freeze, rooting them in place for 1.5 seconds. Lissandra's Black Ice Clusters also resonate when hit with her spells, providing additional effects to the spell that hit it. Only one spell can hit the clusters before they shatter and have to be made again. Lissandra can have 1/2/3 clusters out at one time and each cluster lasts for a few seconds. Clusters can resonate with each other to chain the effects of a specific spell that triggered the first cluster, if they're close enough. #Q: Works the same as now. When it shatters upon the contact with an enemy, it leaves a Black Ice Cluster for a few seconds. #Q hits Cluster: After being hit and a brief delay, the Cluster shatters, spraying ice shards in an area for the same damage. (Could also send the same Q in Liss's direction so essentially, it's a doble Q waveclear that can also poke the enemy going in Liss direction). #W hits Cluster: Cluster resonates and shatters, doubling Lissandra's W range. The frost lingers for a few seconds and thaws (slowly reducing its range over 2 seconds) but it can still root people who weren't rooted the first time. Targets who were rooted but stay on in the area are slowed by 15%. #E hits Cluster: Cluster resonates for a few seconds, allowing Lissandra to blink to its location even after her E has faded. If there are multiple Clusters around, all of them resonate and Lissandra can blink to any one of them, only once. #R: Can be used on allies to provide the same effects (and HP regen to her allies). Enemies damaged with R will spawn a Cluster on targeted locations. If used on an enemy, they are Nearsighted for the duration. "Entombed" is a state that cannot be cleansed, Nearsighted can. #R hits Cluster: Upon exiting the Living Tomb, Lissandra gets the protection of the Black Ice, giving her damage reduction for a few seconds (this effect only applies to her). Black Ice can shatter If hit 3/5/7 times by either a spell or an AA. --- Now, i definitely went with something cool i'd like to see Lissandra with, not necessarily something that has good gameplay value. This is 99% out of the scope of what Riot said they was doing for Lissandra (just the passive, "maybe" a bit more) and is likely comparative to a GU. I'm not convinced Liss needs a GU as she has a solid thematic and gameplay that revolves around it, i just wish that her Black Ice is a gameplay mechanic and that she isn't just a mage that "freezes" her targets. Anivia, Ashe and Sejuani are already doing that. Liss needs more damage. That's for sure. And i don't really think a new passive is going to fix all of her problems unless if her passive is straight damage oriented. But in that case, it might have to be a charged passive that's more like Spellbinder's effect. But if the enemies still stay out of your range, you'll have to spend in on a minion wave - it's more like Ashe's old charged crit passive. If you can't spend it on a minion wave but only on champions, then it's more like TF's old stun card duration that he could've always threatened over you as a conditional for easy harass/gank while he was farming casually.
I really like this direction but yeah seems a bit outta scope, though you never know! Probably would tie max clusters to Q level, and duration of clusters to champ level. Q the enhance here seems like it’s just too good, free double Q on every Q past the first, but possible to make work with a tiny range shatter W make it 1.5 times range and take out the slow zone, since anyone rooted would just be slowed for such a short time, the lasting root zone is a cool idea, adds a fair bit of power to her though E thats just awesome R like bone plateing but damage reduction I like Now this whole thing may work better if Lissandra’s passive is just empower next spell to do X and adjusted he effects and the cd. I only say that because you’d almost always be getting an empowered spell anyway and it saves on artist time. Can confirm this is a better passive, if also out of scope 💙
Onotori (NA)
: She's a combination of a poke mage and a diver, good in teamfights, and she's good at locking people down. She's also Freljord, similar to Braum, so why not do something similar to his passive and Sejuani's? Whenever anyone is CCd by Liss, allies do more damage to them (halved effectiveness for Q/R slow), and whenever an ally CCs someone, Liss does more damage to them (during the duration of the CCs). Kind of promotes the whole dive-y teamfight-y aspect, and fits with the other Freljord guys.
So a fully fleshed out idea for this might be written like, “allies deal X increased damage to enemies Lissandra has impaired the movement of (halved for slows)” I doubt rito would fly with the dealing damage to enemies allies have cced since they already don’t like the idea of increasing her personal amount of potential burst.
: A few ideas I had in mind for a new Liss passive: *** #Option 1: Ice trail * **Innate - Black Ice:** Lissandra's abilities leave behind a trail of Black Ice that lingers for 3 seconds, and slows all enemies on it by 20%. While on the trail, Lissandra also gains 5 - 90 (+ 10% AP) bonus armor and magic resistance. * Base armor lowered. * Q no longer slows, mana cost reduced. * W now travels across all Black Ice connected to its zone, rooting enemies caught within. * R now increases Black Ice's slow at every rank to its own slow (slow value might then need to be lowered). Idea here is to generate gameplay where Lissandra creates zones of control in close quarters and fights inside them. It's thematic, since Lissandra spreads Black Ice wherever she goes, though I'm not sure if this would create moments of high impact that players are expecting. *** #Option 2: Ice touch * **Innate - Touch of the Ice Witch:** Lissandra's next basic attack is periodically enhanced to deal magic damage and slow the target enemy by 25% for 1.5 seconds. Additionally, a direct hit from an Ice Shard against the target while they remain slowed shatters them, dealing 30 - 110 (+ 55% AP) bonus magic damage, and refunds its mana cost. * Q no longer slows, mana cost reduced. Idea here is to aim fully for having a passive with strong impact that also provides a lot of gameplay in lane, where Liss gets to telegraph her intention to go for an extra-strong spear. Additionally, it takes the idea of her current Manaflow Band passive, and instead ties it into something a lot more interactive. The idea of a shatter effect, however, is already present on Anivia, and so may tread on her toes a little. *** #Option 3: Ice shield * **Innate - Iceborn:** Lissandra shields herself from 52 - 100 (+ 30% AP) damage for the next 2 seconds whenever she deals ability damage to an enemy champion. Lissandra can trigger this effect independently on each champion, and Iceborn has a static cooldown for each champion. * Base health lowered. * Q mana cost reduced. Idea here is to play up more on Lissandra's ability to stay alive in close quarters and try to incorporate the idea of a shield that so many players have suggested. This could give her some interesting dueling interactions in lane, while then letting her transition better to teamfights later on. The main problem with this idea is that Riot has said that they've apparently already tried testing shields on her, and they didn't go so well, so maybe this passive would have a problem I'm not seeing.
Some insight on q mana cost, in all likelihood Lissandra has been balanced around having spell costs high because she has access to free spells, so a rebalancing of her costs only makes sense with a different passive. #1, the w traveling could be a bit crazy strong but I like the idea, and covering terrain in slows would be a pretty fun mechanic, but would make the Q essentially the best slow in the game, it might dip into her power budget a bit to much. #2 reinforces the idea that Lissandra needs to get in close to do useful things but the extra damage would likely just increase her burst profile where it’s already strong and I don’t think that’s the ideal direction, but it’s better than what we have now #3 given the low power budget for passive I don’t think this one flys, but it would create an almost Camille like interaction pattern midlane so you get some bonus points 💙.
InTheory (EUW)
: I agree. She's not heaving an easy time in the current meta but she's not outdated or unplayable by any means. She's designed in a very unique way of really getting into an opponents face and I'm affraid too many changes could end up making her more of a mainstream mage.
I know her ulti and w are pretty much the backbone of what makes her an anti assasin mage, but what other aspects do you think make Lissandra herself? And follow up which parts don’t fit in and could stand to be removed?
: She needs to just be completely reworked. She is terrible in my opinion. Ill try to think of a better kit for her and come back in a bit with some ideas.
Interested in what your reasonings for a rework are and what core elements would need to be changed in your opinion, I know boards can get to be a bit of an echo chamber so I’d like to hear more on a dissenting opinion.
Testiclies (EUNE)
: Why would she need to be reworked??? She is the purest anti-assassin mage, her W and R are very unique and her Q's slow is amazing for peeling and poking while her tankiness and E lets her survive all-ins from assassins. I am a lvl7 Lissandra (used to main her while I was in lower ELO) and my ex boyfriend is a Lissandra main. She is amazingly satisfying if she is played well, although not many people invest the right amount of time in her and have the necessary way of thinking in order to play her well enough. I would be really sad if she got reworked. She needs some changes, that's right, but she is so unique and her kit fits me so well that I don't want to see a single ability of her gutted and changed. This being said, her passive is abosultely ridiculous and it needs to get changed as soon as possible. Something like an in-built {{item:3070}} would fit her well and it would give her lots of AP if she builds {{item:3040}} but it would mean that she sacrifices some of her tankiness from other items in order to get more damage and be more bursty, however, if she decides to build more tanky items then this in-built {{item:3070}} would give her enough mana that lets her use her abilities without having to be afraid of mana issues, this way she sacrifices her burstiness but builds into an amazing support-like CC mage with tons of HP, utility, zoning and lockdown.
Hey popped in for some clarification on the mana building passive, would it be something like “Every time Lissandra Impairs the movement of an enemy champion she gains X max mana” or something to the verbage of literally just tear with a cap and max mana per spell cast? Sounds pretty in theme with curing her ridiculous mana issues, and has a nice synergy with archangels (and muramana!?!)
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 30
<3 thank you and see you in april dude, maybe while you're outta the office X person can finally give lissandra a passive ~~I'm just frustrated work on a new passive for her takes forever, take my nrg~~
Rioter Comments
: Did Sudden Impact just get gutted because of Irelia?
Im pretty sure it’s because of le blanc changes coming down the line the fact talon and zed and and champion with mobility and early damage takes this rune, hell I’d take it on braum
: You were my favorite. I will endeavour to create a D&D monster in your honour. Best wishes.
I vote for making a Cactuar from FF I think it’s the only fitting tribute
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 28
Thanks for the update. *give me X unrelated to the original talking points because Y while highly tangential has something to do with Z*
: I've actually been putting some thought into doing a write up on global player motivations for playing League, how cultural implications in regions can change your perception, and that sort of thing. Sort of a "Why do players around the world play League, and how they enjoy it in different ways" sort of spiel.
Oh my gosh. Talk dirty to me. {{sticker:sg-jinx}} *Culturally loaded reply incoming*
PhRoXz0n (NA)
: One thing Maple didn't mention was Vietnam is the 2nd largest region (slightly larger than Korea and EUW and 1.5 times NA). I think a lot of people are interpreting it as Vietnam being the smallest region or something.
Dayum, can I get a chart of server populations?! That’s actually really cool to know
yoshi2790 (EUW)
: Can someone translate this into human language please? I don't understand the slgihtest bit of this post! {{sticker:cass-cry}}
TLDR being an international company is hard when you have one product that everyone is using, but they try pretty good
: What do we mean when we say the boards/reddit are a minority?
As someone who’s job it is trying to communicate things effectively and concisely I just wanted to say I like what you did, there were pictures, and it made sense. I’d love to get a deeper dive on this, maybe even as a universe article? There’s still a lot I don’t know about how you guys handle international data.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 14
Quick one on quinn, I think whatever you give her basic abilities, it'll be alright, but the ult has the most room for improvement both thematically and in gameplay. Really to feel like you're scouting you'd have to control valor and leave quinn behind, valor could literally scout for you, there's a lot of room for design space here, but not many chances to do it with this mush specificity, so I say go for something interesting, give me valor flying over terrain looking in bushes doing divebombs and loop de loop acrobatics on a mad dash back to quinn. Something that gives me *that* cool and satisfying moment of THIS is what this champion is about. Quinn doesn't have a strong THIS moment. Let Valor be that moment and you've done 90% of the work, the rest is that sweet polish you guys do so well <3 ~~oh you can toss in some vicerality and a three hit passive and you've got the makings of a real champion ;P~~
: Any concerns for {{champion:412}} Thresh since {{item:3302}} the relic shield healed got nerfed for him or is he still doing ok?
Pretty sure it just shifted the optimal item from Targons to coin, since you aren’t getting the passive shield or active shield
: What do you guys are thinking about the new Morello's? Do you think it will be a first-to-build item against champions like Vladimir and Swain? Or there are champions who benefit from building it early anyway because of the flat pen? Ooor it will be more a late game item and really situational?
It’s not quite up for patch chat yet me thinks but it’s looking to be an early ap pen item
100mg (NA)
: Let me preface this with the knowledge that I am Rank 13 Gragas in North America, so I have a lot of valuable experience with the champion. How can you ignore a champion like Gragas? {{champion:79}} I feel like he needs a little love right now. He has been sitting at a 46% win rate for the last 5 or so patches. The lowest winrate for his main role. And has around 40-43 percent winrates against the top junglers right now (Skarner, Nunu, Ivern). Even in his best matchups, he has a measly 50% winrate. There are only 5 champions that he has over 50% winrate against. (Fiddlesticks, Diana, Wukong, Graves, Kindred) Most of which aren't popular or played in jungle. This is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion. His rank 1 ultimate cooldown is way too high. It would also help him a lot if his W damage reduction was increased and his W drink time was reduced if not completely removed. Please don't ignore our drunk fat loveable friend, he needs some help.
I’m not saying I don’t like gravas, but I don’t like flash body slam being a thing.
: Please address Viktor's tiny buff. I don't think his buff addresses Viktor's core weakness, and I'm worried it will have little impact on his performance. Viktor is currently forced into a terrible build path because of his E. He needs to purchase Hex-Core MK-1 {{item:3196}} first because otherwise he has abysmal waveclear and cannot affect the rest of the map. However, that item is highly cost inefficient, putting him at a disadvantage to his lane opponent. Further, unlocking aftershock on his E is not sufficient to clear waves without also leveling his E. Therefore, Viktor is unable to access his core damage ability (Q) until much later in the game. I believe Viktor will continue to be difficult to balance as long as so much of his power is gated by a terrible, expensive item.
How I feel they are taking this is less a this solves his problems buff, but more was what they could manage in a reasonable time and test and implement quickly since he’s not been doin so hot. TBH the issue with viktor is his insta waveclear, e upgrade is bonkers in high elo and pro play. I say have the secondary wave deal reduced damage to minions so it’s not as frigin crazy.
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Aurelion Solari

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