: From my viewpoint, that just means that they understand what you described, but that they believe even with that, the ban was merited. As mentioned, the general criteria is that if it can in any way automate an aspect of gameplay, it would be in breach of the rules - even considering innocuous usage. The part that's throwing me off, though, is the reference to unaccounted games. I could just be being a little dumb right now, but I don't know if that means games in which the macro was detected but not used as evidence (assuming anything similar to regular IFS punishments) or for games where the macro wasn't used, or...What. Though, that's just from my perspective.
So I just got another response, and my hunch was correct. My account was banned primarily because of other instances of detected scripting/hacking. I know that I haven't done these, but they say that this is not a mistake even after checking again, so I'm lost. How do I prove I'm innocent to something like this? It's Guilty until Proven innocent at its finest, and I don't even know exactly how they are so confident I am guilty. So that's it then, my account is gone and I can't do a single thing to save it.
: From my viewpoint, that just means that they understand what you described, but that they believe even with that, the ban was merited. As mentioned, the general criteria is that if it can in any way automate an aspect of gameplay, it would be in breach of the rules - even considering innocuous usage. The part that's throwing me off, though, is the reference to unaccounted games. I could just be being a little dumb right now, but I don't know if that means games in which the macro was detected but not used as evidence (assuming anything similar to regular IFS punishments) or for games where the macro wasn't used, or...What. Though, that's just from my perspective.
On the day of the ban my account was hacked into, they played 3 matches of Normal games on champs I don't like playing like Lee sin, password/email was left unchanged, they simply got on and played a bit. Idk who. I made a separate ticket on that to see I can get any info on those games.
: I'd hazard a guess and say that those rules fall into the same reasoning as 3PS bans being done in waves; to minimize the odds of 3PS creators making their stuff more difficult to detect. To that end, they have to be fairly vague in regards to explaining details about your punishment. I'm not sure what all they'd actually divulge (since they've a lot more information than I do, and consequently a lot more factors that could make the situation worse), but I can at least assume they'd tell enough that the punishment is clearly stated, whether it be botting, other malicious third-party software, or gameplay-altering macros. Though, this is all just guesswork, as my only experience with such matters is seeing other cases of 3PS punishments that all generally say the same thing - Riot Support is cagey on details, with good reason. Out of curiosity, what have you found that implies something else triggered the ban?
It was in a recent response to the ticket where they stated > I've gone and checked back on your account details, and I've found this was not a mistake even taking into consideration the program you described to me here for using emotes and the unaccounted games. The part that shows that there's probably something else is "even taking into consideration", this is telling me that there is something else much greater than those 2 that I am not aware of.
: > Though this is a violation of their rules, I'm still going to push for a 14day instead of a permanent... That you're free to do, but I'll still say that the likelihood of getting the punishment decreased is fairly low. Third Party Program use, to my knowledge, always results in a permanent suspension, though I won't say that the outcome is certain. There have been very, very rare cases where Riot has dialled back a penalty with a stern warning, but, the odds are still down there. > ...and if they can easily detect it as shown by another person in this post, then they were intentionaly waiting so that they could ban me permanently instead of taking measures earlier. That is the case, yes. Riot issues bans for Third Party Program/Scripting/etc. in waves, rather than as soon as detected, so as to make it difficult for those who create scripts/bots/etc. to determine what aspect of their script/bot tripped the system. > The severity of this is low, is what i am essentially pushing, though frequent. I would rather not loose my account of 5 years because of something this stupid. Best of luck. If you need anything else clarified, don't hesitate to ask.
I'm doing what I can to get specifics on the case, though there are some rules within the company preventing them from supplying this kind of info. Do you happen to know the extent of these rules, because I'm trying to piece this stuff together to see if it was even the macro that caused this, because there's some implication that something else happened.
: You're focusing on the word "scripting" when you got punished for "cheating" the same way people focus on the words "intentionally feeding" when they get punished for "griefing." One is just a subset of the other. You may not have been scripting to gain an advantage, but you were using a third-party program to perform actions in-game. That's cheating according to Riot, and it's against the rules. You are in the wrong here.
The client message specificly said "scripting", hence why i emphasized that word over the others.
: > Can anyone here sit down and give me any logical reason as to why my account deserved to be permabanned from using a macro to walk while dancing? Well, let's look at it this way; > One thing I enjoy doing during games is using a custom macro that spams Ctrl+3 or 4, with Rightclick. This makes the player model move around spazzing out with whatever the emote is, in the case of Yuumi you just shake violently. Because of the nature of this macro, I am unable to do anything until I turn it off, otherwise I'll be stuck canceling my auto attacks and can't play the game. You openly state that your macro uses in-game actions (right-click movement to interrupt champion emotes). And, even though it's not in a super-impactful way, your macro _does_ alter your ability to play the game in some way, shape, or form. Sure, in this case, it really just prevents you from playing the game until you turn it off, but the issue is still there. And, as you pointed out earlier; > Some third-party applications offer multiple services, some of which may fall within acceptable territory. If that application offers any unauthorized services, using it at all will still result in the loss of your account. > > --- > > Based on this, using ANY program that has the possibility of being used maliciously is enough to perma-ban someone. Your argument about a potential violation is noted, but it's not relevant here. You're using a macro that can alter gameplay by automating actions within the game. There are differences between reality and videogames, and in this case, punishing for potential violations does make sense. You have the ability to automate your gameplay so as to give you an edge - even if you're using it for silly emote flipouts, that's not going to fly. They can't - and generally shouldn't - assume that gameplay macros/scripts will be benign. > According to Wuks, there are times where using Macros is acceptable. Typing in chat is "fine", so why is something like using Emotes while walking not? Chat macros are a grey-area. There are good uses for chat-related macros, some which I personally don't agree with (specifically, using AutoHotKey, I think it was, to "unbind" the Enter key), but one could still set up useful chat macros to allow them some specific use of chat without disrupting the flow of gameplay - such as having a macro to type "GJ" so that you can congratulate a teammate for something, even if you're occupied with something yourself. And, again, read above; there's a difference between setting up chat macros and actually screwing with gameplay, the potential ramifications of the latter meaning that Riot can't allow you to use gameplay macros even for reasons like the aforementioned emote flipouts. Being blunt, I don't see this ban being overturned. I don't know why you have to set up a gameplay macro to spam emotes and right clicks - I get on just fine with old-fashioned button-mashing - and that you're trying to make an argument with chat macros doesn't really help, since those are apples and oranges. Unless there's something in the chat that can give players a seriously unfair advantage that I don't know of, in which case, I could see arguing that chat macros are similar to gameplay macros. But until such information comes up, they are - as stated - apples and oranges.
Thanks for the breakdown. I see now that the rules for third-party programs are left intentionally broad. Though this is a violation of their rules, I'm still going to push for a 14day instead of a permanent, as that step was skipped, and if they can easily detect it as shown by another person in this post, then they were intentionaly waiting so that they could ban me permanently instead of taking measures earlier. The severity of this is low, is what i am essentially pushing, though frequent. I would rather not loose my account of 5 years because of something this stupid.
: > [{quoted}](name=AuthoStats,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QfpziUEM,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-06-06T08:13:41.496+0000) > > Wuks stated that the use of macros is allowed in the case of typing in chat, and that using them to aid in game via abilities is banned. Using them for emotes is on the same grounds as typing in chat, as both as obvious and have no possitive effect on gameplay. > Banning me for something i COULD do but HAVENT done is also not justifiable on any grounds. I also can be toxic, very easily, but me having a keyboard capable of flaming others is not grounds for a ban unless i actuallt flame them. except the detection criteria don't discriminate a usual script issues commands to the server in excess frequency a type script will send 2 commands to the server and thus practically undetectable you were spamming commands and the system flagged you for what those commands were the system doesn't really know (i would assume) Toxicity is specifically detectable Murder is specifically detectable you using a program to spam emotes can easily be used to spam abilities and the system will not know any different Riot perhaps can adjust the system to account for the type of action taken by the script but i don't think it's a big enough deal for them to allocate the resources next time you want to use 3rd party software on a game talk with the support team of the game to determine if it is allowed or not thats what a sensible person would do and how most people do with their 3rd parties
I see why it was detected, thought the reason for the punishment and the severity are off in my eyes. I am still fighting this case with their support team, and the specifics of what in particular banned me is still vague. I'm mostly aiming to lower the ban time from perma to 14.
RallerenP (EUW)
: Wuks is not a Riot employee. He is a volunteer for the boards. He has a lot of insight into the system, but no more than any other non-riot employee could obtain. He can be wrong.
This may be true, in which case the post made by him would be misleading. I will see if i can confirm his comments or not in the ticket.
: for 1..... it wouldnt be instant perma ban. generally that is a 14 day ban, so you are fibbing about no prior punishments. for 2..... it gives an advantage to the enemy team. You yourself said it can make it so that your autos cancel. this means you are giving an advantage to the enemy team. for 3..... it is still doing in game actions that are non chat related. It does effect gameplay. Thus, if that is allowed, they would have to allow others. Whether helpful or not to YOU means nothing.
1. It is instant, i am not fibing, i wish it was 14days first so i could atleast stop using the program. 2. No, it's not an advantage. If you are in an attack animation and you taunt, the animation refreshes, hence why i cant auto when this is on. Just like normally, this can be turned of with a single press, nobody benefits. 3. This is the main point that i am fighting against. They dont state exceptions to the third party rule, but they frequently state that if it given you an unfair advantage, its bannable, but other cases like using it for rebinding or for chat is acceptable because nobody benefits from it. I dont benefit, its just funny, they dont benefit either, so why is this worthy of a perma ban?
: imagine how easy it would be to change your macro to spam eves q or skarners q when nearby enemies the ban is deserved most people that use these kind of micro scripts to annoy people in game usually talk to the support first if the program is allowed so they don't get banned for it
Wuks stated that the use of macros is allowed in the case of typing in chat, and that using them to aid in game via abilities is banned. Using them for emotes is on the same grounds as typing in chat, as both as obvious and have no possitive effect on gameplay. Banning me for something i COULD do but HAVENT done is also not justifiable on any grounds. I also can be toxic, very easily, but me having a keyboard capable of flaming others is not grounds for a ban unless i actuallt flame them.
mack9112 (NA)
: But you did use a script something that riot has made very clear is 0 tolerance
Its not 0 tolerance as shown by the board by Wuks. There are exceptions, and if typing in chat via macro is allowed then using macros for emotes is on identical grounds.
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