bQTammy (NA)
: Get rid of %HP true damage
There’s totally a way to counter % HP true damage, and judging from the state of the game I’d say it’s riot’s _**favorate**_ way of countering things You just build damage and instakill them first In fact almost anything can be countered will instakill! ADC taking out your team? Instakill them! Soraka protecting their ADC? Instakill them! Tank guarding their soraka? Instakill them! Assassin instakilling you? Instakill them! There’s nothing that you can’t counter with instakilling! It’s like oranges and being k
: Yet a lot of times that counterplay is built around the rest of the champions kit. The logic for Garen/Darius ults being as powerful as they are is that they're immobile champs, Sylas doesn't share that weakness, yet he gets their ult without their counterplay tied to it.
Those cases are balanced around the fact that those champions won't always be in range to take and the specifics of his ult with also be important in these cases, like what's the per champion cooldown? What's the actual cooldown? How long can he hold an ult? Those will be the most important things in terms of balance. Also Darius's ult is _alot_ less useful without his passive with sylas won't be able to take
: The thing is, you can't itemize against true damage. Nothing can mitigate it and therein lies it's core problem
Technically, health counters flat true damage because the proportion of your max health lost gets lower and lower. % max true damage is countered by damage because if you kill them first it doesn’t matter, although it’s bullshit the game’s been reduced to that
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
He was the one who did Warwick, however he also 100% had heavy oversight to prevent him from making warwick stupid
: im pretty sure that ttk was pretty fast in season 3, DFG still existed back then? If yes then season 3 had shorter ttk than current.
Deathfire grasp had a cool down of 120 seconds, could only be used on AP champions, and generally it gave a similar time to kill as most champions have now.
Moody P (NA)
: Riven has all of the agency in the lane. Garen can deny sloppy aggression but he has to play pure reactionary and easily gets out roamed as well. It's not a counter. Riven controls the pace of the lane
Garen has free trades and far better innate sustain. You just max silence, back hand her then back off whenever she tries to farm. Hard to roam when she’s under leveled and under farmed
: Base armor and two frozen hearts? Plus maybe shoes since people don't always count that? I dunno, best I can come up with. Taric maybe combined with two frozen hearts due to his armor increase?
Thornmail+frozen heart isn't a bad combo against full AD team since the AS-slow passive and aura stack then add in base armor of some champions and/or boots then you could probs hit around 300 reasonably
: its not like {{item:3091}} is a tank item either
I mean that's at least an item you can conceivably see a tank getting at some point Like there are several tanks who would love to build it if they could afford to
wildfox9T (EUW)
: >what should you do next 15-45 minutes in the game? {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3156}}
: Cow W and Rek'Sai R are not fixed length dashes. Their length varies in order to reach the target. Fizz and Yasuo are valid though.
The damaging part of rek'sai's ult is a fixed length dash in front of and behind the target calculated during the untargetable part. Ali's W is a fixed length set when you press the button. It's a dumb way to code them and I'm part of the "if I can't aim why can you dodge?" Group so I'm not happy about it but that's the way it is
: Targeted abilities that should be dodgeable, based on Rek'sai's ult:
The reason rek’sai’s ult is dodgable is that the damaging part is a fixed length targeted dash Riot has decided all fixed length targeted dashes should be be dodge-able This includes {{champion:105}}‘s Q {{champion:12}}‘s knock back and {{champion:157}}’s dash Idk why
: > [{quoted}](name=Kazekiba,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U8MtVjYr,comment-id=000b000100000004,timestamp=2018-10-15T15:28:10.273+0000) > > What they did was they got rid of the "War artist, True Neutral deity that acts behind the scenes but influences history on a global scale". > > "This battle... will be my masterpiece!" > "They called my work a 'Hack job'!" > something about blood is paint and war is his canvas, iirc. > > Discarding that and instead giving him this awful stereotyped accent somewhere-between-russia-and-germany (because playing on old mid-20th century American fear-based stereotypes is GREAT character design, guys!) will likely stand as the biggest sin of Riot's champion design team, period. I feel like everybody brings up the same three lines when talking about how great the old Aatrox was, but personally, I see a lot of better lines in new Aatrox. His long movement lines sound so good when you're just walking back to lane and listening to what's going on with him. People seem to think new Aatrox is just "BIG SCREAMY MAN ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG", which I thought at first too, but once you actually play him for a bit, you can see that a _ton_ of his lines are actually quite solemn. Heck, just go to the League wiki and search Aatrox/Quotes. "Once in noble battle, I screamed against the silence. I stood as light against the darkness. Now, I serve a new master... oblivion..." "They will call me villain... Come, let me earn their hatred, again and forever." "I touched the stars, and saw the glorious light of a thousand suns! Now, blinded by this elegance, how could my purpose be anything... but dark..." "No beast so fierce, but knows some touch of pity... But I know none... and therefore am no beast. (Laughs)" For me, when I tried to play old Aatrox a few times, he was basically just this weird guy who repeated the same lines over and over again in this weird fish bowl voice. New Aatrox's lines will certainly stick with me longer than: "Violence is elegance." "Peace is the greatest lie of all." "True warriors are born in blood." and the variations of "Fight and be remembered as..." I get the whole thing about not wanting the old Aatrox gone; I get it. But Old Aatrox wasn't some objectively better masterpiece of a character; he wasn't even really much of a character. He also didn't really fit into the lore well, except for his relationship with Tryndamere. But this new Aatrox actually helps solidify what the Darkin are and places them in the world of Runeterra quite well. A few things that I've got to agree with you on: Why is Aatrox Russian? Like, he's from Shurima, and we know what Shurimans sound like... And they don't sound Russian. So, uh... Why tf does he have the accent? Also, it'd be neat to see that whole behind-the-scenes warmonger concept get expanded upon. Something better designed in this current age of LoL lore. Might be able to fit as well, but I think Riot's narrative team could definitely do it.
The problem with new Aatrox is that “vengeful fallen Demi-god” thing is already in the game in several other characters with variations. Renekton in particular is near identical in basic premise of “guardian corrupted by the thing they were guarding people from” _and_ now both came from the same area. It’s a played out archetype in many forms of media even besides that, it’s even the main antagonist of the Bible. The only character in the game close to old Aatrox is jhin and they have an extreme difference in scale and methods
: The whole thing about people hating the Aatrox rework because he "lost his identity" is completely ridiculous. Aatrox got reworked because his "identity" was not unique and was not really healthy. The reason it took so long to rework him (pretty much was told he would receive a rework 1 year after his release) is because he had nothing really unique about his kit. Pretty much they had to rethink his entire design around his lore and being a Darkin. I would argue that Kai'Sa is a perfect combination of two champions. Kha'Zix and Vayne. She is actually what would happen if you took 50% of those two and put them together. Like Kha Q and Kai Q do more damage when the champion is isolated. Kha W and Kai W are both void spikes and are ranged harass. Kha R and Kai E are nearly identical except Kai gets an attack speed buff aswell. Camille is like what everyone has said. What Vi should have been, but she has way too many tools.
By “identity” a lot of us Aatrox player mean the “character identity” and while I personally would have liked more autoattacking, I would have been happy simply if he didn’t get turned into “generic angry dude with a voice filter #3”
: So are stats only useful when they support your narrative?
Pubstompy champions having the highest winrate if you include bronze tier? Color me shocked, I never would expected that, it's completely surprising /s
: Edited because it can be done... ~~I think the coding involved in "permanent" versus "temporary" would be wayyyyyyyyyy too far involved to be just a simple fix for Jhin. I don't think there's a single thing in the game that operates on "permanent" or "temporary" conditions, so they'd have to apply this coding trigger to literally everything.~~ Hail of Blades is rough on Jhin, yes. But the real issue is Stormrazor. It's giving him a GUARANTEED critical strike to activate his move speed passive, and with how quickly you can complete the item in the game, this is what's causing the problem. It's also a problem because with any kind of AS built on him, just the time it takes for him to reload will be long enough to allow for Stormrazor's crit to be up again. Riot needs to face the music and understand that Stormrazor is a bad item and has been a health problem across the board (not just on Jhin, but AD assassins, divers, everyone) and should be removed. Once it's removed, then they can see how Jhin's doing and evaluate how to move forward from there.
Stormrazor by itself is not a bad item. it was fine back when it was b.f.sword+pickaxe+dagger and had a total cost of 3200, it’s a powerful effect which should be on an item you need to work for. Now it’s 2800 and builds from three of the cheapest items and the only difficult bit is the B.F. sword; you don’t even have to combine the cheapies into a mid-tier item first. It’s the cheapest and easiest build riot could have given it without a press release stating they want almost every ADC to build it
Zeromatsu (EUW)
: First: This is not about what's better (lethality vs armor pen). But: even if armor pen is better, there is a lot more lethality than there was armor pen back then. So even if it might be weaker early game (late game it has same value) you get more of it, so it balances out. AND the items not only have lethality but also provide everything assassins need like extra dmg or vision control. Armor pen was a generalist stat back then that almost every (melee) ad champ could use. Second: I just said ad assassins need lethality to function, that means they HAVE to build it no matter what. And that's the problem. It is a stat designed for assassins, not for everyone. If you dare to skip the lethality items you troll. Back then you could vary your build. Hell Zed used to rush botrk. Now it feels like this: Get long swords, build serrated dirk, finish item... repeat till you have all lethality items you need and have fun one shotting everyone. The old armor pen (especially with black cleaver) was built by many champions mostly top laners. So yeah, I hate lethality, because I don't play one of these assassins or some of the few champions that can abuse it like miss fortune.
Firstly, zed got botrk purely because he abused its 15% max hp nuke at the time with his kit. Secondly runes and masteries could have netted you ~25 armor penetration, meaning you started with 25 armor pen and could go to 45 just by buying ghostblade. Add duskblade and you're up to 55, which lethality requires both you and your target to be level 16 plus for you to have edge of night. At level 16 the game will generally be over or snowballing to a end. The issue is superfluous damage like electrocute and just duskblade itself.
Zeromatsu (EUW)
: This whole concept of "let's rework whole classes just because why not" was doomed from the beginning. A lot of champions that were playable atleast got ruined completely or are weaker than before. But what annoys me most about dividing champions into classes is the itemization. Why the hell do you need to make items for whole classes, instead of champion strengths/roles like before. Before we had "supporter" which was everything... Tanks, Enchanter and even some damage dealer. They had few items that fit the role. Now we divide the items into subclasses (ardent censer/redemption for enchanter, solari/knight vow for tanks) because it is "better". All it did was create more imbalance. Same goes for every class. Why do ad assasins need lethality to function?
> [{quoted}](name=Zeromatsu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvNwXy0w,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-09-28T10:58:20.469+0000) > > Same goes for every class. Why do ad assasins need lethality to function? I've never gotten for hate for lethality, the change was a straight up nerf to assassins. Lethality is way weaker than armor penetration ever was.
: {{champion:36}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:8}} these champions have existed for a while and people don't complain too much excluding Riven and I believe none are his creation.
It’s because they’ve all been directly and/or indirectly nerfed to hell. The moment _any_ of those become competitive is the moment _everyone_ complains.
: keystones are a mistake
i wouldn't say they were a mistake, it's just they were implemented poorly. if 90% weren't just "MOAR DAMAGE" and all were more utility or resource management types, they would have been way healthier
Glory97 (EUW)
: There are enough hyper-mobile champions you can choose from, if your positioning is that terrible. But if you expect every single champion in the game to forgive you all your positioning mistakes, you are asking for too much. If your positioning is good enough you can be very successfull on an immobile champion. This is prooven by lcs. For example in the game 2 between echo fox vs tsm (yesterday): 6/10 champions don't have a dash.
No one's asking to be forgiven for mispositioning; in fact, We're asking the hyper-mobile champions to be punished for it more harshly
Glory97 (EUW)
: Can't play safe = My positioning is on bronze 5 level
That’s the problem, mobile champions can get away with bronze 5 positioning a lot of the time whereas immobile champions can’t
rayzo (NA)
: 2.5* and it's a suppression and he's also rooted in place
Worse than rooted in place, he’s channeling! He can’t do shit else while it’s happening or he’ll cancel it and he can’t defend himself from their teammates
: league is 2d. There is no elevation.
Mechanically yes, there is no elevation that the game considers. Graphically no, there's alot of elevation in the art and animation of the map and game. Event like this happen when the mechanics and the graphics disagree
: The crow knows all. The crow sees all.
Trauja (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kimchi870,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rm9lsiTJ,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2018-08-17T16:39:32.836+0000) > Jax solo-carry potential is shit so stfu This must be a not funny joke. That guy has literally the best solo carry potential of the entire game, if you're not carrying with a fed Jax.. no other champ would have man
> [{quoted}](name=Trauja,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rm9lsiTJ,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2018-08-17T16:41:05.588+0000) > > This must be a not funny joke. > That guy has literally the best solo carry potential of the entire game, if you're not carrying with a fed Jax.. no other champ would have man That's extremely debatable, his carry potential isn't shit like kimchi870 said but he's not the best. There's a reason gold funneling was done with {{champion:11}} and {{champion:30}}
: Cc won't stop smite. Only a combination of a silence and a suppression will stop smite. (I think that's the correct combo. It may be a stun and a suppression. I haven't tested it in a long time)
Suppression by itself stops people from casting summoner spells (including smite), that’s kinda it’s whole gimmick
IainG10 (EUW)
: Blue Form can do unfunny things to squishies, but I do get your point.
Idk, a trinity force+duskblade empowered AA in blue form are hilarious
: Except Support Tahm HAS NOTHING ELSE TO OFFER. His W is the only reason you take him as a support, if this change goes through then Support Tahm outside of competitive is dead.
Then he probably shouldn’t be balanced around support anymore or he should balanced around the damage he deals. He used to be the “support who would outright kill you if you let him” before the passive swap and I’m glad they’re going back to it
: or their ap ratio "Laugh into gragas buff".
Gragas has always been somewhere between a Tank and a Mage, so I think that particular buff was at least understandable.
: Nah. They didn't adapt. They just obsoleted and retired old expansions. Only the Alpha/Beta banned list actually retains notoriety. I doubt there are too many Ice Age cards that even really still matter.... because tournament regs don't run them. You could Amulet of Quoz in a private game. Public game it's so buried from being played it doesn't matter. It's a good ploy to get spenders to buy the new cards, new expansions, and spend more money.
Necropotence came from ice age proper, force of will came from the ice age block. The only reason more card aren’t used are because ice age can only be used in legacy, vintage, and commander. All of them have access to almost every card ever printed and can cherry pick the best of the best (though commander usually doesn’t)
remakoro (EUNE)
: Noc is what? And if you wanna peel then there is much better choices than Poppy. Especially considering that her W gonna do nothing to Noc.
Of course there's better picks against him, but you said she was the worse way to counter him and there are so _so_ much worse picks against him
: There’s a reason he’s 100% pick/ban in competitive.
Another part of that is that the pros can use the vision denial of his ult to its peak power
remakoro (EUNE)
: and he also has spellshield... Probably worst way to "counter" him...
I mean not really, noc's countered by peel and poppy has loads of that; so if the ADC has the slightest intelligence and buys a legitimate defensive item (I realise how big a if this is) so they dont insta-die then poppy can pull him off
Tegash (NA)
: except any other champion who casts a non-damaging ability doesn't get an electrocute stack for free. {{champion:266}} doesn't get one for casting E {{champion:84}} doesn't get one for casting W {{champion:34}} doesn't get one for casting W {{champion:1}} doesn't get one for casting E {{champion:22}} doesn't get one for casting E i could go on to list every champion who should get a free electrocute proc by your logic, but that would be a disproportionate amount of effort spent to refute a claim this ludicrous and lazy. imagine, if you will for a moment, if {{champion:126}} could pop electrocute on you for free by casting R twice and then AAing you in ranged form.
I think a better analogy would be if Jayce's W-Q in ranged form counted twice for electrocute.
: Absolute Zero now deals % Missing health, percentage is increased the longer he channels
It has a reverse execute: it deals 2% more damage for each 1% of the victims' current health.
: Ehhhhh it couldn't do as much as kats
It increased all his damage to the target by 15% and originally silenced them too. It did plenty
: Why Gangplank orange can cleanse Urgot ult?
Hit by car? Eat an orange, be k! Shot in the face? Eat an orange, be k! Eat too many oranges? Eat an orange, be k! There’s no amount of k you can’t be when you have oranges!
: Isn't the fact that all types of AP champions are able to properly utilize all types of AP items a good, positive, _fun_ thing? I used to go full crit Talon before his rework. The fact that I'm now forced to use{{item:3147}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3814}} instead of{{item:3095}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3087}} {{item:3046}} actually breaks my heart! He used to be so damn fun before they butchered that build path on him.
Well, i mean it’s more the rework that killed crit talon, considering he lost his 27.5% increase to autoattack damage
: Change into this
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Mzb5ahNU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-11T08:56:51.792+0000) > > Change into this > > Ohhh yeah baby, precise winding tolerances are so hot
: Then I was lied to and the yasuo just didn't wanna admit it
: Woman who can't handle criticism uses accusation of sexism to attempt to silence her detractors? Color me shocked. Neither her or her friend should have lost their jobs over it though. We can't expect everyone to not be stupid all the time, even at their jobs.
> [{quoted}](name=princeblumpkin,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BAoBlyNZ,comment-id=0029,timestamp=2018-07-07T15:49:12.160+0000) > > Neither her or her friend should have lost their jobs over it though. We can't expect everyone to not be stupid all the time, even at their jobs. If the people they attacked were literal randos, then probably not. But one of the people they attacked was one of the biggest streamers that GW2 has, who is an officially recognized partner of the company There’s a cutoff with stupidity from a corporate standpoint even if you ignore how toxic she is personally
: Unless your abilities scale on tank stats, building full tank is an inferior URF strategy, as incoming DPS is greatly increased but your items will have the same defensive capability as they would in a normal match.
Mao is a special case as his passive scales on the number of abilities case, so you can health forever against 99% of the roster
: This 'atrocious' 25 sec cooldown can be reduced by 20 sec using perfectly his kit (22 if you use your ultimate), which mean you could very well use twi your passive in a fight and it is huge. I don't see how it get so hard to also work on the timer of you passive, when I see I am at 3 sec, I just E toward my opponent as he CS or is near and get the passive proc. And if he want to fight, I start the dance. Idk, as I said, play urgot or poppy in lane to get how it work.
The difference between urgot/poppy and Aatrox is that they can still get a fair amount of benefit from using their passive on a minion in addition to CS Urgot can aim it so that the enemy laner takes harass and/or clear the wave Poppy instantly gets her Shield if she is CSing proper Aatrox gets nothing
: I'm not sure people are understanding his point. He's not asking if that should happen in the current state of the game with those items and those two champions (It should). He's asking if game state should have ever come to that point in the first place, ever. (It shouldn't).
Why shouldn’t it happen? if you’re building glass cannon you shouldn’t be surprised when you’re made of glass. A Warden’s mail instead of that last BF sword or ninja tabis instead of swifties would have done wonders for his lifespan. Rakan also dropped the ball on saving him by greeding out for the morg instead of protecting him. I’ll agree that general damage is too high but this is a terrible example because if either he or the Rakan had made better choices he would have survived.
: That was not his point, his point was there was no counterplay to his ult. he is very aware and stated that he had no defenses, his point was Nocturne R'ed to him and had no way to counter it. he would be dead all the same even with armor.
The counterplay is stay near an ally and have them deal with noc, or have any armor item. He doesn’t overkill well, if you have a defensive item or a shield/healing ally there’s a good chance you’ll survive.
Elohaven (NA)
: Shield wouldn't have let him survive
If noc only had warrior/stormblade/duskblade like the OP claims, the shield most likely would have saved him
: Probably, the Noc probably had enough AD where if the auto didn't kill the Q definitely would have, I just find the Rakan's priorities hilarious, like "oh the screens gone foggy and I hear Nocturnes voice, better ignore my carry and try to knock up their support"
The Q must have landed, the noc’s crit was only for 548~
: > [{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vhdgT42g,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-07-02T05:48:30.248+0000) > > you had 66 armor and 1600hp... whatd you think was going to happen? So about 2k damage in one auto. Isn't that level of burst damage with auto attacks the biggest reason adc got hard nerfed?
That wasn’t one autoattack, Noc hit his ult and his Q as well: The autoattack clearly only did 548 damage, about a third of the dude’s health Honestly if that Rakan had shielded him immediately instead of trying to go for Morgana, there’s a decent chance he would have survived because Nocturne doesn’t overkill well.
: I like the Aatrox rework.
Most people aren’t complaining that he isn’t an AA champion. We’re complaining that he’s the clunkiest champion rework in several years and that he feels like a thug in a street fight rather than any sort of soldier that has ever been in any sort of battle.
: > [{quoted}](name=HalcyonDweller,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o33g9dGF,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-06-28T19:52:58.093+0000) > > Would it be balanced to remove the Q2 and just make him have Q1 and Q3? Or would that create problems? > > I guess I'm asking if there's an important balance/counterplay purpose for the Q2 to be there...? lmao no. You'd have to remake the entire ability and redo scaling, CD and more.
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Auz the Ripper

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