: > [{quoted}](name=Azadethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ExPO48PU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-27T03:08:53.151+0000) > > Nothing at all about the link you linked is scientific. Just a bunch of heresay. It basically even says: Quinn's win rate is because Quin players main her..... yet she doesn't have enough damage. > > That's a pretty shitty argument. Quinn's damage is substantial enough to 2 shot most of the game, has the highest move speed in the game, one of the best True Sights in the game, and can multi mark opponents, where she used to only have 2 marks (passive and E). Now Q marks too. Furthermore, on Lethality she destroys more than a traditional adc build. > > Fact is, Quinn's win rate is because she's strong. She's just also not a champ that adcs or tops are drawn to because of her story, artwork, meta stance, and in Season 8 your team really needs a tank/bruiser to win most games, because poke teams diminish win rates and diversity. quin is one of the best lane bullys in this game if well picked. but against ranged champs she falls short she is in need of a rework not a buff. but im not here to talk about quin
She beats almost all ranged champs. In fact, she literally has three champs who put her sub 50%: {{champion:19}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:80}} ..... All are melee champs who have skills who can counter her engage (WW can Ult her as she's coming on and load up Fear to finish her off)(Malph can Ult her and build massive armor AND steal her ult move speed to use against her)(Wu can clone out)(Irelia can set up a perfect E and R on her because her advance is linear)(Kled gets a free tether because once again, she's linear)(Panth blocks autos) Most champs she's pushing 60% rates on. You're here about Rumble, but I guarantee I can carry 60% with him.
NemeBro (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Azadethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ufokg4YY,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2018-04-27T01:49:27.300+0000) > > Says a Garen who can literally escape any on kit slows/cc, and also mow down in the process. Zoned perma cc is the only way to even exist with Garen. If you can't deal with Garen at all without the ability to permanently slow him, the problem is you.
lulz. Either says 1) you've never played these champs: {{champion:143}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:76}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:63}} ALL of which have no escape vs a Garen, most of which Garen outheals their damage as it happens, get silenced into oblivion, and facetanked by some 600 + move speed, because of {{item:3800}} {{item:3742}} , his Q, and possibly {{item:3142}} Without Rylai's they literally have no actual counterplay, because their slows last less than .3 seconds versus Garen's W. Oh. And most of these champs have skill delays on their skills of .3-.5 seconds, which literally gives Garen time to face tank them before the skills hit, landing his Silence.
: You know I think her Q actually counts per hit as one hit, which makes healing from Death's Dance/Gunblade on her OP. They could stand to code that at the very least to be a multi-hit ability if that's the case so it gets the healing reduction.
They reduced that to only the first hit counting as a hit due to its synergy with {{item:3042}} Death's dance is basically spell vamp..... It does the same thing no matter what AD damage source. Same as Gunblade.
: I don't usually do these kinds of threads but I need to vent
I delete Kai' Sa with {{champion:145}} . She's only strong if you aren't near minions/other champs. So...... don't fight alone. She also lacks escape.
: 5 Worst Top Laners in League of Legends Patch 8.8
Nothing at all about the link you linked is scientific. Just a bunch of heresay. It basically even says: Quinn's win rate is because Quin players main her..... yet she doesn't have enough damage. That's a pretty shitty argument. Quinn's damage is substantial enough to 2 shot most of the game, has the highest move speed in the game, one of the best True Sights in the game, and can multi mark opponents, where she used to only have 2 marks (passive and E). Now Q marks too. Furthermore, on Lethality she destroys more than a traditional adc build. Fact is, Quinn's win rate is because she's strong. She's just also not a champ that adcs or tops are drawn to because of her story, artwork, meta stance, and in Season 8 your team really needs a tank/bruiser to win most games, because poke teams diminish win rates and diversity.
: AP assassins generally have more reliable methods of dealing damage though so it seems fair Zed must land multiple Qs. Kassadin doesn't have hard skills to land, Kat's skills are AOE and easier to land, Akali is point and click and so forth... I might say Fizz needs higher numbers but his kit is already overloaded and has a far far guaranteed greater advantage laning vs mages than Zed (he doesn't even have to throw his Ult, just continuously zone with it).
Wrong. Kass needs people to spam abilities and lacks post ult play. Kat has a higher skill cap than Zed, because you actually have no control over where daggers drop. You actually have to learn how to time and chain them in small corridors with few options for where daggers can fall to cross large distances. Watch a Kat in Masters play her and then watch a Bronze one. Kat in Bronze doesn't cross 2000 range. a Kat in Masters does, and can do so until 3-4 champs are dead. Zed you can secure everything hits, because it's just fixed geometry. Akali falls off hard because CC and non targetted skill shots drop her and teams coordinate. She is the easiest in Bronze though.
: Anyone Who Cannot Beat/Deal With Silver Zed Should Not Be Taken Seriously On Assassin Balance
Vs an experienced Zed player, none of this is actually true. Zed can outwait a Zhonya's, bait it out, and can kill you with skills outside of his ult. The counterplay exists, but it just doesn't do enough to be credible. if Zed has 3 Shadows out, it doesn't matter if you do something to mitigate his ult. He can kill you with the shadows instead. I know the topic is about Bronze/Silver, but I have played Zed twice since 2014, and can STILL 13/8 him while ham handing his kit. I don't ult people with Zhonya's Up. I don't waste too much of my kit knocking out a GA. I suck at maximizing his skill order, but I sure as heck don't let items counterplay me. On ANY champ.
nm1010 (NA)
: Perfect example of what I think is wrong with smurfing (from a smurf)
Personally my issue is the smurfing to begin with. Smurfing is only one minor cause of toxicity, because most people don't even know it's a smurf unless they know what it's like to have been one (and see the subtle differences in playstyles that people of some low elo shouldn't be pulling off) Silver/Gold have much bigger issues than toxicity of smurfs. They generally don't respect other players at all, and the snowballs are often completely irreparable anymore. At that elo, it doesn't matter if it's a smurf or an elo appropriate competitor. They feed either way, because they get lured into this whole, "I must finish combat if it begins" mentality or "Next time I'll combo better than them" mentality, or they just don't count gold scaling...... They chase. They fail at farm, run it down mid, don't care about drakes, even when high powered abusers are in play that game. Here's my question though: How are you managing 22/2/11 in our current wardless environment? I absolutely HATE jungling atm, because there's very little early game ward access with the removal of tracker's and 10 minute delay on Supports. Control wards are limited. I mean.... I've been jungling since Season 4, and generally follow the rule that, "If you can't guarantee it's not going to be a bush gank, don't go that path." Yet now...... I just don't see the entire post Scuttle region, and good junglers don't get within that vision. I get 1 personal ward and a control ward per 2 minutes, yet a jungler can appear out of nowhere, or worse, a mid can wander into YOUR jungle, and easily set up visionless 2v1's. Not because you don't ward, but because you just can't ward enough. I'd think that would affect Talon too.
: Assassins are viable, lmao; just not in pro play. Also {{champion:121}}
They're in pro play if they are not banned. They take up 5 of the top 10 picks in the game, as well as ban rates. P.S. I've played Zed a total of 2 times since 2014. I can still pick him up and automatically go 13/8. If I mained him, I could probably 20/1 him regularly. (His Key/skill orders are hard for my fingers to manage picking up off a cold play, but just by button mashing I can 13/8. If I actually learned to use my fingers correctly, I could 1 second kill anyone but tanks, and kill them in 2-3 seconds in most cases).
Snowman Arc (EUNE)
: Casual players realizing what pro players knew all along.
Not even a true thread. Assassins make up 4 of the top champ picks and the highest bans in Diamond+. They are near PERMA bans in tournaments. {{champion:55}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:105}}{{champion:121}} are all scoring in top 10. Stop trying to claim they aren't. As to the rest: Every champ has some direct vulnerabilities. I don't know why you expect Lulu to not have Polymorph.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kavren2055,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ufokg4YY,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-27T01:01:46.675+0000) > > rylais should not proc on the same spell more then once every X seconds Or they could change the slow to 40% for DoTs and multi-hit abilities, but make it so that only the first tick of damage will slow.
you guys have no idea how much persistent slows are needed vs tenacity champs like Garen or Mundo. There are only 2-3 champs in the entire game who can fight them without it.
: Rylai should be removed because a passive permaslow is literally one of the worst fucking things you could put on buyable items
Says a Garen who can literally escape any on kit slows/cc, and also mow down in the process. Zoned perma cc is the only way to even exist with Garen.
: Poppy has a much higher ceiling than champions like Garen and Dr. Mundo. If they raise the floor for her, she becomes completely overbearing.
It's not really a ceiling. It's the fact some champions literally cannot be mechanically beaten with Poppy. She's one of those champs that dominates when people play dumb, but she sucks hard vs counter built teams. She won't win an {{champion:77}} game unless her team carries her. {{champion:34}} Dominates her. {{champion:1}} Dominates her. {{champion:136}} Dominates her. {{champion:53}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:126}} etc...... ....All generally dominate Poppy, although occasionally she can kill them if she manages a wall knock. (I didn't even go through the list would be too long). If you can't get a wall knock and your opponent has no dashes but rather relies on ghosting, her kit just doesn't do enough damage to kill anyone, and her armor/resist bonuses are tiny, and short lived.
Sasogwa (EUW)
: Poppy is not a juggernaught, Mundo and Garen are juggernaughts. Poppy's identity is not to be a statcheck monster, but to be a utility tank with alright brawling abilities but not enough to stand up to juggernaughts in pure duels (which is not her role so it's fine). Garen and Mundo are weak juggernaughts, they're getting buffed. Poppy's an average CC tank, with high enough damage so she can't get buffed on her utility without getting nerfed on her damage. All the changes here are fine and address different classes of champions. There's nothing said such as "statchecking is unhealthy" or whatever. Statchecking is basically the whole thing that makes juggernaut a class.
Kadexe (EUW)
: I don't really see your point. Tenacity is at least somewhat interesting, and massive healing is a big part of Mundo's identity. How else would you buff these champions? Mundo's a champion that becomes worthless if you apply grievous wounds, so they're buffing his healing to compensate. Garen is a champion that gets crippled by kiting, so they're making him harder to CC. These are pretty big buffs, too. Riot's probably planning to tone them down before they go live.
Except they took away Mage's early game grievous wounds, gave Mundo Major magic damage reduction (which hurts the one mage who does have early game grievous wounds: {{champion:55}} ) And adcs generally don't have the kits to persistently catch Mundo, other than {{champion:77}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:164}}
: Garen is possibly getting the buff to his tenacity/damage reduction, in the way that is the most skill expressive part of his kit, since the window for these high defensive buffs is so short.
: While Garen and Mundo probably need buffs, this literally makes no sense I guess I'll have to drop Poppy support when this patch comes out because how dare I play her outside of toplane lul
Mundo really doesn't need buffs. There are a huge roster of champs who can't even exist on the same map as a Mundo in his current form. New runes are allowing him to erase people faster than he ever has, especially once he gets close enough to use Masochism. His fights are now feeling more like {{champion:102}} play than Mundo play. You don't have a reliable spam slow to deal with his tenacity, and knockups only go so far to stop a champ that can opt in/opt out, and 1 click heal himself AND run away or in. About the only hard Mundo counter that still exists is probably a Master Yi...... Part of the problem is mages no longer get early game grievous wounds, so they can't put him in as many no heal situations. AD's don't build executioner's early either. Ofc, then there's also the fact they added insane amounts of magic damage reduction to Mundo on his E, so only AD's can actually attempt to kill him anymore to begin with. And most of them don't have a kit to stay with him.
: "We're nerfing Poppy's positioning ability and defensive values because she's too stat checky"
And she's not stat checky at all tbh...... given any champs that don't use Dashes absolutely destroy her. She can't even fight {{champion:77}} at any point in a game. The best she can do is lay a Q in his path, and try to run, or occasionally R. and run. If she tries to fight him, she will lose every time. And, there's a lot of champs who can do this.........
: They had to make {{champion:157}} more reliable
Yasuo still has a bug where he can skill and move while "Airborne." I caught it on video a bit back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2k5NsS8Uy0 (Ornn succeeded in knocking him up, but it didn't stop his E, and he continued to have the AIRBORNE status above his head through 2-3 more skills, while he killed the rest). So not only are Knockups for Yas, they aparrently also are IGNORED by Yas.
: you put way too much time into that.
Or...... I was around and saw both the results of the Tribunal, and the IFS. The Tribunal got positive global critiques for its scientific prowess. When they tried to translate the Tribunal into a "dictionary of words" bad players use, they got something horribly wrong. People who never got disciplined under the Tribunal began getting flagged for words that didn't statistically get them banned before with the IFS. It's like Riot took their findings from the Tribunal, and added terms that are outside parameters of what consisted bad players that fit the term within some 60% or 75% interval of Significance, which isn't what real scientific studies include. (Generally we want significance levels of .9 or greater for scientific studies) Ofc, I can't even get a hold of Riot's financials, because that's a Tencent internal document no public person can access, so I'm also just speculating here. What I do know: media who made articles describing terms of dictionary in the Tribunal study defined Toxicity as mostly racist, hate speech, bigotry. What they did NOT mention: -Cussing -Pointed Blaming/Accusing/Telling others what they did wrong -saying GG with a high frequency Now, even I can understand Cussing as also being in there, so I can forgive that. But the others are actually legitimate reasons people get banned. I actually have bans on the record where literally all I ever did, was tell people how to win, what they are doing wrong, what advice they ignored that led them to a losing situation. Now..... I try my best to hold most of that off and save it for post game. So, instead of getting banned, I'm losing more games, because although taken as rage or Accusing, the comments when said IN GAME, sometimes get people to fix their build/yolo problems. And, most comments along those lines have no nice way to say them. Or rather, you probably began nicely, and then when they ignore you, feed 0/10, no cs, and then rage at YOU for them doing bad, what's left to be nice about? Your options: Remind them what they ignored (taken as abuse) and possibly salvage a game, or mute them, and they continue to do the same thing, and definitely lose.
: He's not building right. No one should EVER open ruunans then boost on top. Auto lose every single trade doing rapid fire tickle damage Pretty apparent thats why he lost lane and continued to feed when he was useless. Still never an excuse to get 20+ deaths. Even 10+ is excessive
It's a Twitch. Twitch commonly opens with Runaan's because it allows a massive cloud of ability on his R that penetrates 3 lines instead of 1. In fact, it's his #1 picked first item. (albiet not best win rate first item) https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Twitch/
deathgod5 (EUW)
: Here is your build order from the game: https://i.imgur.com/8FeGkoK.png Here is your death map: https://i.imgur.com/gvxxhxg.png So people can decide if your story checks out
To be fair that's an incomplete set of information, and he was originally building right. He wasn't good, but the game had 21 kills before 10 minutes.... 2 people dying a minute is amazing considering walk times. He was 4 of those, so yeah..... he did his part of the feed for sure. He was 1/4 by 10 minutes. It just seemed like a feed fest for everyone though, and rage is from the eye of the beholder, so even though he was the worst, he probably thought, If Xin hadn't fed Sona at level 4, I would have been okay, etc.
: > [{quoted}](name=Chermorg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Ptgo1fEf,comment-id=000000030001,timestamp=2018-04-26T04:22:27.215+0000) > > If you flame someone, you're not a victim, you're a perpetrator. > > "He started it" is not a valid excuse in real life. im guessing youve never experienced real life?
Although I think he's wrong on his response to my post (I'm no conspiracy theorist; I actually research before I speak), He has rules he must abide by in being a forum advisor. It's unwise to try to bait him into other responses outside his guidelines. He's generally a good guy. He's basically saying both were in the wrong, a stance that is Riot's in dealing with bad behavior. It's meant to remove all macro responsibility from Riot (for having the strictest and often mostly negative reinforcement system in the gaming world, while laying it all on the micro behavior of the players). That's their right to do so and if it goes too far, it will hurt their position as a game. But for now.... the rules are the rules and try to argue from the basis of what they are, not what they SHOULD be, because that's a conversation we probably are in no position to debate. (Also, some casual players actually like the system the way it is, so it's really hard to create a community push against it) _**Personally, I don't like Riot's Macro solutions for behavior, but I also don't like bad behavior by players. I actually think Riot's right on equal punishment. **_ I just think less things should be punished. Players get competitive, and there's a hundred different reasons to rage. There's only a couple reasons not to: Fun and Winning. If you're playing for fun, you generally play Norms. If you're playing to win, you're generally playing ranked. However, there's crossover, and what is often "fun" isn't winning. That creates friction. Most things Riot punishes should be punished: Inting. Leaving. Afking, Cheating. Hate speech. But..... a lot of the time people just get banned for having bad days and getting really deconstructive during those games. I think OmegaIsKing is outside the scope of what I'd consider acceptable, but I think some of that needs to be acceptable, and for a couple reasons: 1) People obviously haven't stopped being toxic/offensive. It's not working. 2) People haven't abandoned the $2 Billion monster they created by playing this in droves yet because of toxicity. Revenue generally grows. (meaning revenues could grow even more if people weren't so fearful of bans because they regularly have bad days, bad teams, etc) 3) Although sportsmen generally encourage sportsmanship, being unsportsmanlike exists, is part of life, and Riot actually has stricter rules on this than Baseball, Basketball, Football. In Balled sports, generally the only sportsman penalties are if you offend a referee, or physically destroy/abuse things. 4) Less policing actually results in a less salty community, because a large portion of toxicity actually stems just from the "I'm gonna report you" conversation. Riot's players KNOW reports work, which gives them an incentive to bait and trap, because they like setting other players back. Reducing the number of bad actor topics would mean less spam, and maybe a little more communication.
Chermorg (NA)
: You think Riot willfully matches you with intentional feeders just to try and trigger you? That's a conspiracy theory with no proof if I've ever seen one.
No. It's really not. Several times they have described what a Low Priority Queue is. It's where they stick players where they feel they are prone to leave players with a bad experience. It's also used for Leaver Busters. I'm not going to defend the OP, but it does happen. And it's not int feeders..... it's anyone who historically recently has been labeled a "bad actor" Aka: Other verbal offenders. Afkers Leavers Griefers Hate speechers. They do track offenses, and they play a role in your team structuring.
: You went on a 14 day ban vacation and literally learned nothing. If you didnt type so much they wouldnt try to troll you even more
Omega was a horrible example of a 14 day out of suspension, but he does have 2 points which are valid out of any 14 day suspension: 1) You get placed in a really low priority Queue out of discipline, in expectation of you being a bad actor (it's actually part of the system). If you have been reprimanded, expect to be placed with other toxic players more actively and common. In Other words, Riot's Queue system is setting the stage. 2) Riot's current system has an intensely low threshhold after a 14 day ban. Most literally get a perma ban right out of the 14 day ban, because ONE offense can result in the permanent step. I've actually had one of these, and I don't talk 1/4 - 1/5 of what this guy does (Now you're going try to discredit my argument because I admit to having similar problems). Back in September 2017, I got a 14 day ban after some 2-3 months of not having even a chat ban (Aka I was about to get back into honor eligibility, and demoted a punishment tier). --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Elo boosting account season had begun in wake of the Season's end, and Diamond smurfs were running down in Gold, lopsiding games hard, I was warning my teams level 1 to play defensively and safe, they were completely ignoring me because of their egos, so after ~ 15 minutes of a game, I'd occasionally tell them exactly what they were doing wrong, after they had started the conversation some 5 minutes before - and never stopped. Those 15 -20 line interactive late game chats we had in game resulted in a 3rd offense nearly 3 months after my second. So..... I got a 14 day. When they 14 day was off, I literally got 3 int feed teams in a row. Not my "percieved" int feed definition: they actually were. Like run down the mid. Using Teleport and Mobis to make it faster and harder. Crap talking and baiting team into conversations, claiming the others were bad, and that THEY should stop feeding, Troll comments entire game. I went off. By my 4th Queue up and after game was loading, I got a Perma ban. Literally within 2 1/2 hours of account release. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not even going to try to defend myself for late game counterbanter, but what I want you to notice is..... This is what you get RIGHT after discipline. You teams of more disfunctionals instead of the average teams you would like to have to calm you down and allow you to think. The post discipline games are DESIGNED to heap stress upon stress on an already unstable ban recipient. That's like putting a Prisoner in Solitary. Or Imprisoning a drug addict: Neither work, and are in fact torture to recipient and solve nothing. They aren't rehabilitation friendly. They're like dropping a gangster off at the very corner his gang claims, giving him straight to his gang, and telling them he snitched. I do think the OP is an intense offender, and he doesn't even realize it. But I also understand the system is designed to put him in a situation where he's going to be worse at his worst, and there's nothing that tells a player, "If you are a 14 day ban recipient, you can and will be banned within 2-3 games of your return with 0 tolerance if you haven't reformed." That's insane for the highest paid game in the world.
: Yes, because Janna hit you with *three* W's. And I assume she was decently high up on you.
That's not how the skill works. She was FAST. Her passive: Janna's basic attacks and Zephyr deal bonus on-hit magic damage equal to 15% / 25% / 35% of her bonus Movement speed icon movement speed. On her build, she had at least 54 damage from her passive. Probably at least 155 AP, so 366 AP. The other half doesn't make sense.
: Position dependent ranked is just baffling to me.
I was going to post my own post, but whatever. I think we need more explanation on how the independent role ranking works. What happens when your Support rank is Plat I but your Bot rank is Silver IV? Is there some sort of rank slider that moves all of them closer together as you progress, or do you literally have to play 5 times as many games and attempt all ranks independently? This is a legitimate concern, because good supports regularly pull 65-70% win rates, which are going to accelerate Support main rankings. Mid Mains and Junglers etc, perform in the 60% or better range. Me personally? I suck at adc. Even if I win lane hard, I get out of pace with a team and generally don't have tanks to defend me.... Maybe 37% if I'm lucky? So when I get autofilled into adc, is it going to drag my Support rate down, and Support drag my ADC rate up? If not...... the OP is right. It's going to condition players to single role, and when they single role, you're going to find that role picks that are unpopular are going to suffer even MORE. And if rewards are associated with doing well in ALL roles, you're going to find players do not have enough time in a year to accomplish those roles, because you're at least going to have to play three times as many games. The one good thing that'll come out of this either way: Less filled supports won't get their support items. (And for the love of..... BRING BACK TRACKER'S so that junglers can have pre level 10 ward coverage. It sucks to jungle in a jungle where you have ONE WARD every 120 seconds when your "lane" is the entire map).
dedeku (NA)
: Please fix Blood Moon Evelynn..
I'm sorry. I like this demon form. It's one of the cutest ones. I do wish the SPLASH art was more colorful and contrasting, but the in game.... looks nice. I'm wanting an ultimate skin, but the skin is okay for 975 RP.
: Uhh, and? You get **TWO TREES** to pick from. Literally, every rune page has Resolve secondary being Bone Plating + whatever.
According to stats sites: Jax is primary Precision/Secondary Domination on his highest winning setup (Resolve is the highest PICK secondary, but it's also pulling a 48.1% win rate. Bone plating is pulling 49.71%) Aatrox's highest MAIN rune page is Grasp based, defeating the purpose of this debate, since he's not going to go Demolish or Font of Life. Riven's highest MAIN rune pages are Grasp based, and also Aery. Once again, defeating the purpose of the debate. Kled might be the first legitimate argument, because although sometimes he mains Grasp, he has a large population picking up Conquerer and running it secondary. (He's also an exception to my argument, because of how his HP works. He is one of the only champs in the game that benefits more from Bone Armor than from Second wind, because HIS Hp has a low threshold). Let's look at some more. Cho Mains Grasp Darius is the second champ that is using this (Because of Conquerer; Used to run Grasp) (P.S. all used runes score the same win rates on Darius, irregardless of their pick rate) Mundo is picking Grasp (Still) Fiora is the third legitimate Argument. However, it's worth noting Fiora on Sorcery is winning more compared to the Resolve Secondary, being the only runes scoring over 50%. Gangplank is a Grasp main. Garen is a Grasp main. Gnar is the fourth legitimate pick, and what's interesting is.... on ALL runes he's pulling about 47-48%, so runes seem to be trivial on the outcome. (Sorcery is pulling slightly higher win rates as a secondary, but it's also his MAIN pick) Illaoi picks Inspiration/Domination. Irelia is a legitimate Fifth pick. Jax is a Legit 6th pick (But he's got better win rates at Domination). Jayce is barely using it, comparable win rates in Domination. There's more tops, but generally mages or Grasp mains. I see your point, but at the same time, none of the stats are insanely remarkable either. Most have comparable win rates in other combinations of runes/trees. Many have tied win rates on even other Resolve combinations.
: Remember when ADCs had to build lifesteal to access sustain?
It really hasn't had a nerf. It's had an extreme buff. They made it 30% effective vs minions later, but you don't use it on minions do you? You use it to poke champs, right? It's Warlord's Bloodlust in a nutshell.
: In what elo? Just curious.
That's at Diamond + (and Zed and Kat have really high ban rates there too)
: This is very true if in getting{{item:3027}} {{item:3151}} mages completely forgo {{item:3102}} and {{item:3157}}
You act as if a mage is going to get to 4 items (or 5) with assassins. Zhonya has its utility, but most of these assassins can completely work around it.
Rioter Comments
: what does ornn have to do with bone plating being mandatory?
You're talking about champs that are auto lane wins. Who are YOU talking about? And no offense... most of the champs you listed are going Precision right now for Conquerer......
: Carrying has nothing to do with damage or KDA. Carrying is enabling your team to win, and going above and beyond the average. As in you're doing over twice as much as you would otherwise be doing as an average member of your team. You can go 17/1 as Talon, but if you spend the entire game splitpushing, instead of assassinating and turning your gold lead into your team's gold lead, you didn't carry, even if you won. "ADC" is misleading, and calls back to a time when the definition of carry *was* solely tied to damage. But that definition has changed. Literally anyone can be a carry, unless you're a champion so reliant on your team that you're incapable of carrying the game. You can even carry with a negative KDA, if, by your actions, you directly enabled a victory for your team.
Carrying is an illusion exile! But seriously. You can be the best support in the world, but if you are paired with a team that literally never pulls the trigger to fight or to defend, you cannot carry. I've had tons of ADCs where I land 10-12 bubbles in a row, E slow the crap out of the targets so they can't run, and my adc continues to auto attack minions, and don't even get the last hits on the minions. In the meantime, my mid is collapsing, top is collapsing, and the jungler is afk farming and has initiated ONE gank in 12 minutes of gameplay. About the only choice I have as a support is to abandon the ADC, and try to turn top into a 2v1, mid into a 2v1 etc, and hope that the underperforming laners suddenly perform when they have extra CC, move speed, and heals. But..... then the afk farming adc pushes out solo, and feeds 3-4 solid gold kills to the other team and begins a snowball. The game is then 4v5 vs a fed opponent, and if the "Won" top lane I helped congregates mid, we're still 4v5 vs a much more fed team who can probably pressure our mid. They have to F up really bad and have 1 or 2 get out of step and caught for us to turn around. I've also had tons of teams who literally care more about chasing and the luck of the chase versus actually defending objectives. I can't recall the last time I had a team that actually responded to a split pusher. Instead, they think that chasing 2-3 kills and trying to push a lane after, is a smarter choice. In the meantime, the split pusher succeeds in an inhib + starts working a second lane. Or worse, there are TWO split pushers. That's really fun when you're a support main: You ping 30 times for team to defend, yet they ignore. You have to decide between keeping your kill chasers alive, even though it's the wrong move, or to try to defend a base vs 2 aggressive, high damage champs that your support can only slow in their take at best, while your chasing team dies because they don't have their support. Me being on a team can enable wins. But it doesn't mean I'm able to carry. It means.... that at least half of my team also did its job as well. If they don't, I can't. (The only supports I have ever really considered carries are Zyra, and Karma, and they both have dramatic flaws are more mages than supports, and often struggle in lane to do their jobs, because their lane is all about minion avoidance).
: While I agree that assassins are counters to mages they should also beat assassins in lane if played well just like an assassin should beat mages if played well. Mages are supposed to be generally better in team fights but assassins are supposed to always have mages as an option to assassinate other than adcs unless they forgo their damage for real defensive items. Which their current base hp scaling and hp items that have as much hp as tank items make it really unlikely. {{item:3027}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3152}} vs . {{item:3065}} {{item:3194}} {{item:3001}} {{item:3068}}
HP is bad if an assassin builds {{item:3036}} ...... The only Assassin that falls off due to HP is generally {{champion:91}} , in whose case his assassination kit is built around armor shredding, not scalability. {{champion:84}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:28}} all scale in EXCESS of HP norms, meaning they can erase high HP targets.
: Assassins fell out of favor because of Supports and ad carries. not mages
You do realize 4 of the top 10 ranked champions are Assassins....... {{champion:55}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:238}} all rank in the top 10 champs. The others are Mages. {{champion:136}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:30}} for example. This is a completely biased post ignoring actual facts. Even in jungle, the two champs that are carrying well are {{champion:19}} {{champion:28}} , both of which resemble assassins.
: Just regular match history. You can find out things like first blood and where exactly on the map players died. It's not foolproof, but it gives a decent idea of how the game went down. Also, I understand that occasions where your team feeds while you are doing well do happen, but I think my entire point was that the difference between a player just having "bad luck" and a player simply not performing up to standard is the frequency of occurrence. When "bad luck" supposedly happens every other game according to same players, then it is safe to say that it is the player's own doing, and not matchmaking. Someone having 200+ games being stuck in a particular elo is simply where they belong. On the other hand, someone stuck in an elo for around 20-30 games can be attributed simply to bad luck. It's baffling to me that people could genuinely believe anything from 200, 300, 400+ ranked games while still stuck in the same division is caused by bad luck. That's not only **_highly_** unlikely, but damn near statistically impossible.
Not only is it **not** statistically impossible it's supported by the way the games average out. Suppose you are a 51% player. Every loss results in a 2 game setback of LP, a reduction in the MMR of players you are matched with, and your promotional games are designed to make you lose, by setting you against players who generally have better win rates than you or your team by far, and have play trends which generally are never good KDAs. If you are force to redeem ~ 39 lost points for every loss to progress (The game you lost + the game your removal of LP erased) that results in the need of just over 2 wins to recover. Suppose you are 51% and your losses lose 18 LP and your wins gain 21 LP. If applied to 500 games, that's (500*.51)*21 = 5,355 LP Minus (500*.49)*18 = 4410 LP = 945 points of advancement. Now, -Several of those points are actually negated by promotional series where no LP is awarded, and -Some of those losses are actually negated because of safety nets -In reality the 21 LP/18 LP example while common, is not what generally occurs when you have a 10 game loss streak due to teams who start the game 0/12. Those series of losses change that ratio drastically, and give you results like 18/17 or worse, if the streak was longer. But... the 945 point gain is your best possible outcome at a 51%. Suppose you had about 15 promotional series in those 945 points, no rank loss used as a safety net. That'd be about 8 full promotionals, without the loss rewards, and 7 with 1 game already won, and one of those would be a 5 game series, possibly 2. That results in a net 26-7 point loss to that total, so your max possible universe of success is 929 points. If you started Silver V, that's enough to get to Gold II. And that's 51%. In 500 games. 200 games would only be 371 points of advancement, or just over three ranks. Which means..... at 200 games from Silver V, you get to Silver II. 300 games gets you to Gold V. 50% on the other hand results in the following: 5250 - 4500 = 750 maximum points. (And it's worth noting that 50% is OFTEN accompanied by huge changes in LP Win vs LP loss. I've had it drop to where a win is 14 LP and a Loss is 21, flipping and severely skewing the how much I can recover from a bad streak. But, I can't track that result, because some people might genuinely get lucky and get a 500 game series of 1 loss, 1 win) 49% results in 5145 - 4590 = 555 points of possible advancement (Which most of gets erased by changes in LP per Win/Loss, and bad placement matches, which do not count for win points, but DO count for losses)
: > Anywho: The strongest snowballs actually take Second Wind + Overgrowth. Just because players generally play bone plating doesn't make it better. Its damage mitigation is rather small in comparison, and it has a cooldown. It also does VERY little combat DOT damage. auto win lane champions don't need bone plating because they already win lol meanwhile jax vs aatrox, riven, kled, ect forced to take bone plating
You do realize Ornn is at 46% win rate right now, right? only 3 champs are Ornn even positive Win rate.
: Because losing streaks generally occur after you get a win streak based on *luck*, instead of being based on *skill*. Instead of playing equally or carrying, they get carried repeatedly. You don't notice this because you don't *want* to notice when you get carried. Your luck runs out eventually, and you run into a losing streak until your luck either picks back up, or until you hit your skill level again.
That logic's kind of wierd, since most champs aren't even designed to carry. By that logic, {{champion:267}} is carried every game.
: The thing that annoys me most about whiny threads about matchmaking is that, more often than not, a lot of games are not only their teammates fault. Literally every thread has the premise of "I keep getting shit teammates who keep feeding/AFKing/inting/trolling, and I am a god of LoL who deserves to be a higher rank." I sometimes check match history of the people who make these threads, only to notice that: 1. One person went AFK; "I literally had an AFK in every one of my last 7 games. WTF!" 2. The player was feeding as well in a substantial amount, and not only as a result of teamfights due to a behind team; "My teammates always feed and throw! WTF Riot!" 3. The person they claimed was inting was simply just having a bad game It just seems that most matchmaking threads are simply a result of people failing to see how they can improve their play. I get it, bad luck happens. Sometimes there are games where you do your best and still lose because teammates, but to say that's the reason you are stuck in bronze after 200+ games is just straight up denial about your own skill level. Bad luck is something that happens in spurts. If it's happening repeatedly, then it is not bad luck, and is instead a result of a player in denial and unwilling to improve. The second someone claims they are stuck in bronze for months because of "bad luck" is the second that I lose faith in them ever getting out. To put it into what I hope is a decent analogy, picture a scenario where you stub your toe on the corner of something. If you stubs it once, it's likely you'll just say "Ah, shit happens." If you stub it once a day, the situation becomes "I need to not be as clumsy and watch where I am going." Bad luck happens. Shit happens. But if shit is happening on the regular, then it is not the shit's fault it happened. It's your own.
Here's a question: What did you use to check? Op.GG, or were you able to actually check their Riot Match history and look at the order of kills/deaths? On my Silver Smurf, I generally get a TON of teams that literally start the game off 0/12 None of those 12 are me. But when I begin to encounter that entire fed team..... made up of champs who have insane chase, like {{champion:24}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:36}} , who are already at 3-4 items while you're at your non feeding but also not killing decent 0/0, Even I begin dying. If I'm supporting {{champion:143}} , that's SUPER common, since Zyra's skills have a delay to casting that instant cast melee gap closers can abuse. If I'm 0/0 Top {{champion:516}} entering a situation where my team's fed like that, sometimes they just pop me, even though if I was fed, I could tank all 5 of them. Instead I get a 3 item adc, jung, and support come wreck my top, and if I even attempt to defend, I'm dead in one second to 900 damage crits. Some champs just aren't built for feeding teams. If they feed, by the end of the game, so have you.
: "Forced 50% WR" is just a result of reaching your peak.
You REALLY have no idea what you're talking about. Atm, Silver is horrible. 4 out of 5 players literally do not have a redeeming attribute or show any knowledge of the game. This is every game: 1) Supports don't streamline their support item and often don't even have wards until ~ 18 minutes, because their laning is bronze tier, and they spend too much time dead. 2) Junglers basically have no wards to rely on. Laners perhaps have 1 ward per 2 minutes, and MAYBE a Control ward. But for the bulk of them game, they have no wards at all in useful places, because they've lost tracker's knife, and laners don't have access to wards either. This results in Jungle being a damn near roulette role to play, because you have no vision other than scuttles for having any chance to actually round a corner and not walk right into an opposing jungler or roaming laner. 3) When junglers don't yolo gank because there's no vision, they get verbally and physically abused by their team because the other team is beating them. 4) Bot Lane generally dies completely out of cycle with junglers. They die when you are top, and even when you are bottom, they die while you're on Krugs, because somehow being on their side of the map is a signal to all in and feed. 5) Mids literally don't react at all when their opponents roam. They would rather stay in lane and get 250 cs while their opposing mid never even lanes. While their opposing mid 3v1's top, invades your jungle with their jungler, your Mid laner literally does nothing at all. They effectively make the game a 4v5. (I have a smurf account, and had this happen yesterday. For 20 minutes, my mid {{champion:50}} afk farmed mid, while his opposing {{champion:157}} was ganking top, then my jungle buffs (which I can no longer ward against), ganking bot, and that was before he was even level 6. Post 6, Swain still didn't budge, and argued, "I can't follow Yasuo. He has Tier 2 Boots. I'm farming." (And then at the end of the game blamed team for sucking because only he had CS and a positive score, due to his mechanics carrying him via heals) 6) Tops do not know how to play safe. They think a series of 5-6 1 kill for 1 death trades is "good play." (In reality they are dumping a hyper fed juggernaut on their team in most cases, and often lose 1-2 turrets in the process) 7) Proficient Junglers mechanically completely ignore drakes when champs are in play you never want to have a Drake ({{champion:84}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:202}} ; If you give infernal drakes to these champs, the game is usually over) 8) Split pushers do not know when to stop split pushing and when to group. {{champion:23}} players in Silver literally never leave Top lane. They manage to get their inhib....... but while they are getting their inhib, the rest of their team is in a 5v4, and often getting destroyed simply because there are no wards, they underestimate aoe nukes, and the opposing top is helping them push YOUR base harder. While {{champion:23}} might be doing his job, he literally loses 2 lanes for the one he gains. 9) Elo is full of elo boosters from websites, as well as people who are int feeding in various ways because they know they are hard stuck, and have more fun destroying games than trying to win. 10) Support has lost 2-4k gold over the last few months per game due to serious gold nerfs. They can no longer really CARRY a team unless they are a mage (which begins farming, and sometimes has crazy scaling like {{champion:143}} ) 11) It's almost impossible to stop an assassin snowball in Silver, even if you are that one person who mechanically knows how to beat them. When {{champion:84}} {{champion:103}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:11}} snowballs begin because the other 4 on your team don't know how to play those trades (or avoid them), They just get so fed there's no actual counterplay if you're the one who can stop them. They get their boots, {{item:3142}} , etc early, and just destroy underfunded counters. **You can probably carry yourself out if you're playing one of those champs and smurfing, but if you're playing normal teams with rotating champs..... probably not. ** P.S. I main D III. I absolutely hate that I got trolled on a second account's Provisionals by 7 run down mid int feeders (Literally run down mid. 4 got disciplined outright that I know about). _**I am maintaining a 4 KDA on almost all champs I'm playing on that account, and still getting ~ 10 wins, followed directly by 13 losses, all in a row, all with early game kill death scores equating 9/28. (Literally within the first 10 minutes of the game, 28 deaths, 9 at most kills. Most of those games by 10 minutes, I have 0 deaths.) That's real Silver.**_
: Boneplating not as OP but Bone Plating is taken more? Just asking because stats prove the opposite of what you've said.
I don't know why you're stalking me. Anywho: The strongest snowballs actually take Second Wind + Overgrowth. Just because players generally play bone plating doesn't make it better. Its damage mitigation is rather small in comparison, and it has a cooldown. It also does VERY little combat DOT damage. Overgrowth can get up to 10-12% Extra HP a game. If you have 4200 HP, that's a 4662 HP. If ANY damage hits that, it's massive regen, and resets every time you are champ damaged. For example, if you are {{champion:516}} , and at some 2000/4662 HP, damage will heal you 186 damage over 10, reproccing every time damage hits. Over the context of a realistic fight, that can continually heal, and use your W to mitigate damage WHILE healing (on unbuffed shield, that's a 559.4 shield, which takes a couple seconds for opponents to burn off, which means your Second Wind can heal a LOT more) On the other hand, Bone Plating only negates 90-150 damage and can't improve and goes on cooldown. The reason more people go Bone plating isn't because it's better. It's because it's a different tier of rune than the other two. Resolve is generally considered a Main tree, not a secondary one.
: the ahri part is likely because her power ceiling is too low to be effective enough, which explains her ban rate btw when i mean "seeing play" I mean specifically LCS, not the actual soloQ
LCS has a lot of math involved in it and it's not based on any particular champion individual strength. What decides what enters LCS: -Has to be champs that can hold their own at any point where pvp is expected in the match. -Effectively farm versus pressure. -Synergy with their team (often this alone cuts many champs who just don't have synergies with enough champs) -Player tendency to excel at specific champs. For example, {{champion:142}} wasn't banned from LCS because of her power. She was banned because her power curves/spikes do not align with the first two bullets: She farms poorly under pressure, and her power spike is 35+ minutes, which means there is a large window of risk where other champions are scaling better. If you bothered to track her win rates by length of game, she literally was only performing well before 20 minutes, and after 35 minutes. After 20 minutes her win rate plummeted 13 points. In LCS this translated to: Between 20-35 minutes, if pressure escalated on Zoe's lane, the team might lose due to a snowball created from her gaps in power. However, if the games went normal LCS lengths, which were around 36-40 minutes because it's a farm fest, Zoe could begin to control games. Neither was healthy for a team to bet on, if they want to appear professional and talented. The team that didn't get her didn't want bet on 35 minutes +, and the team that would have had her didn't want to bet on 20-35 minutes. So, most teams ousted her for more "average" performing champs who have strong periods at all points of the game.
: League of Graphs is most accurate.
I cannot even find one source of web info which claims League of Graphs is even close to accurate. They don't even get into the running on Reddit. In fact Reddit claims that League of Graphs often says they have a really high placement with champs they don't even play. Back up the claim. From my viewpoint: They all extrapolate data in a different way and filter it in different ways. Some try to weigh win/pick rates versus their ban rates to contrive some statistic off what the believe could be statistically correlated by data they HAVE obtained. Others just extrapolate and run all queries which result in more complicated but more accurate results. Some have Delays. Others are active. Many cannibalize data extracted from other sites, and do no math themselves.
: On the whole, the pricing hasn't been made cheaper. At current, it has the most fluid build path it's EVER had. It's so much easier to purchase the Lost Codex, Tear, and another book, more so than it was to buy a tear and a Needlessly Large Rod or the older Blasting Wand it required. It's current combine cost is also 915g, which is significantly cheaper than any of it's old combine costs. So as I said, while it's on the whole not cheaper, it's easier to build which means it's coming into the game a lot faster.
I'd love to know how you think it's more fluid lol. It's still 500g more expensive, and they're making {{item:3802}} 1300g and {{item:3070}} 800g. Why do you care about combine cost versus total cost lol. Or Cost per AP? {{item:3802}} +{{item:1052}} = 55 AP. {{item:3003}} atm has 50. You actually LOSE 5 base AP to gain that whopping 1% of Mana AP upon upgrade. for 1515G in cost. That's the most gold inefficient upgrade in the game. Or that has ever existed in the game.
meowwow7 (NA)
: the funny thing is when playing a {{item:3302}} support is that the 0/2/0 or something like that adc or support is in lane with me and a cannon minion they think i'm going to engage on them nah i'm not going for the 50 gold champ i'm going for the 90 gold minion
Yeah and I'm not afraid to steal a 90 gold minion from an adc who is not there to kill it on a recall. Whatever works best...
meowwow7 (NA)
: speaking of which did they fix the bug that refreshes the lock out timer if you upgrade during it?
I rarely get to that point anymore so I don't know. What I generally do do: when I recall, and 3 charges are up, I get back to lane, kill a Siege minion, and 1 other minion, which puts it on a 24 second cooldown on recharging. It still has the 3 charges, so 24 seconds isn't enough to really lock me out from recharging when I start hitting champions again. That gives me some extra gold, but also allows me to continue using the item as designed. P.S. I top {{champion:516}} with {{item:3096}} and have a 68% win rate on it, even though the champ is 46% average. (and climbing). I also still build {{item:3311}} on {{champion:28}} post level 6. I'm going to be spending most of my time at that point of the game ganking and not farming, so all I farm at that point are the Blues/Reds, and by the time I'm ganking a lane, the cooldown is back to operation. Evelynn can charge 60 gold per Q, so getting the quest over is super easy, and I don't trust a lot of supports to ward for me, which is the primary reason I do this (Seen WAY too many supports finishing their ward quests in 15 + minutes when I myself finish it in 8. It's kind of sad when a top Ornn finishes his support item before a Bot Support does....)
: Thoughts on this game?
1) you were Poppy support, yet you took a ton of kills.' 2) You gave at least a couple full gold takedowns to the opposing team. 3) You didn't build anything but tank/support items on a Poppy. You robbed your team of a support and gave them an underperforming carry. 4) Poppy vs Darius/Sion will almost always lose. 5) This is Norms Blind Pick. There's prob some high rankers in there. 6) You let the game go too long. They won by objectives, not because of Azir.
: Braum has 62 CS. Also, that's not *my* Nami. I'm the Udyr. Look at which score is colored golden - That's me.
convo still stands tbh. Keep in mind the 62 cs was shared with Braum's adc. That's the tradeoff. 62 CS for Braum is only about 2,145 gold. In a 24 minute game if I soley afk farmed Gold tokens in Bot lane with a Nami on {{item:3305}} 3150G . If there's any assists involved, there's gold tokens there too. In realistic game on Nami, I'm lane rotating, so I pick up more than just one lane's worth of gold tokens. That alone would put me over 8000g.
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