TS Media (NA)
: I'm sorry, but 4 seconds is a big fucking nerf to her E. You people bitched about not minding her doing damage if you were able to kill her. Her E, with 45% CDR, being on 6 seconds from about 3 isn't huge enough for you? Imagine not being able to please the masses...
> [{quoted}](name=TS Media,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-05-02T02:17:54.202+0000) > > I'm sorry, but 4 seconds is a big fucking nerf to her E. You people bitched about not minding her doing damage if you were able to kill her. Her E, with 45% CDR, being on 6 seconds from about 3 isn't huge enough for you? Imagine not being able to please the masses... "Able to kill her" is the key phrase. You need to understand that the issue is when riven needs to be in the fight. Mobility mean riven can freely pic and choose when to be in the fight. Essentially, there is no point riven needs to be in the fight, where she is in any realistic and imminent danger of getting blown up. Riven is totally free to space out the fight and disrupt foes with CC and dashes such that she rarely needs to actauly bear the consequences of being in melee. Sure, in the strictest sense, this nerf does definitely reduce her inate tankiness. But the fact that she still build vary tanky, is mobile, and loaded with CC means that the actaul danger she lives in VERY VERY VERY VERY low, even after this nerf.
Rioter Comments
: Item Shop Cleanup
When you start tinkering with itemization again, can we talk about a few issues: 1. CDR being overly cheap. I know riot is convinced "People like to use their abilities, so more abilities = more fun" but the result is a gross degenerate meta for so many champions, which makes base damages more relevant than they should be, and allow champions to over invest in uninteractive playstyles and builds/skill orders confident that the utility and numbers native to their kit will be creeped by low cost DCR 2. Mages pick up way to much health in their build without sacrificing much else. The balance point for a mage is that their damage rotations are supposed to be chunkier, meaning they have to constantly weave in and out of the fight to get multiple rotations off. Thats currently not how most mgaes work, and the abundance of health on every item is part of that problem, as they can face tank everything, and then one shot someone. 3. Tri Force ratio is a little too much, and by a little, I mean a lot. Sheen itself encourages a pretty degenrate one shot meta for toplaners like Jax and Yorick, but please god, just do something about this item
Rioter Comments
: If top is busted and conqueror is OVERPOWERED why can't you get out of silver 3 in 4 seasons?
> [{quoted}](name=Volocaust,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uRWh9Ze8,comment-id=001e,timestamp=2019-04-19T05:22:45.868+0000) > > If top is busted and conqueror is OVERPOWERED why can't you get out of silver 3 in 4 seasons? Because 1.) I don't play that much, and I used to play all support not top 2.) My point was precisely that the state of toplane is either, you're unstoppable or useless. The enemy matchup is given all the ridiculous one sided tools you are. Learn to read
: > [{quoted}](name=Azeranth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uRWh9Ze8,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-17T19:08:45.366+0000) > > I don't want to play as or against Darius, who no longer chooses between Stack health or Stack AD, and instead always chooses Stack Health the entire point of the champion is that he doesnt have to chose. juggernauts are melee carries who scale off building large amounts of health. this has literally been a thing since season 5, while the concept is even older and not since conqueror. if darius currently works off stacking as much health as possible, then hes working as intended. why do you think the heal on his q scales with % missing health, and his 5 stack bonus gives him such a massive amount of ad? the reason why fights feel so short and bursty is mainly because defensive stats overall dont feel statisfying enough at the moment and these same champions actually dont stack health, but stack more ad and try to outburst their opponents before they can get outbursted. if darius would go back to just stacking health and not blowing up anyway, then that would be wonderful.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uRWh9Ze8,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2019-04-18T23:52:06.410+0000) > > the entire point of the champion is that he doesnt have to chose. No, you have no idea what Darius is if thats how you think. Darius builds health because without it he can't last long enough in the fight to get his damage off. He needs deadmans to run people down and Visage to reset in the fight with his Q. Darius's ideal amount of durability is directly proportional to how much kill pressure the enemy laner has, regardless of trading. Darius should not be most ideal in all situations to always build all health. Thats shitty design. The champion is supposed to be about early damage, and an early damage item, and then transitioning to utility. Damage items used to matter on Darius early, because he used to be all about running down the enemy jungle after shoving in the wave. Thats no longer the case, so Darius has changed his meta. A juggernaut is supposed to bring high pressure to the Map early, eventually providing skirmish utility and a sidelane threat with no capacity to teamfight.
Velasan (NA)
: I really don't know that much about top lane, but I feel you on missing the layers of the game that provided more strategy. I was hoping season 9 was going to be the season of fixing all the (shall we say) less than fun aspects of the game including contesting scuttles, how elemental drakes can swing a game, snowballing, turret plate gold etc. Gave up on that now that we are four months in and not seeing any type of reversion of those tactics. It's like they wanted the whole game to be Skarner spires. You have a multitude of tiny things to keep track of and they all screw over your game when they go wrong, along with your teammates. The gold on turret plating was super unneeded, you can have to back for a lot of reasons including getting camped by the enemy jungler. Now they get free gold on top of forcing you out of lane. It just cements a winning lane even more towards a quick and easy win. No one likes contesting scuttles either, they take you away from your jg routes, and most people don't fight over scuttle you just run out and smite steal it or smack it with an ability. Also, even though it's rarely talked about, scuttles provide way too much sustain in the jungle. Used to be that healthy clears mattered. Now there is a ton of sustain everywhere.
> [{quoted}](name=Velasan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uRWh9Ze8,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-04-18T00:44:00.196+0000) > turret plate gold etc. Yes, but turret gold is actually iportant. There needs to be a middle ground for some champs between "I am unstopppable in lane by default with my base kit" and "I'm not 4/0 so I'm not a champion" Plates are a vital mechanism which enable smaller victories, a critical part of good lane dynamics >Used to be that healthy clears mattered. Now there is a ton of sustain everywhere. Yeah
Rioter Comments
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: When i singlehandedly give my adc 6-12 kills on bot lane as support only for them to throw the entire mid game by playing solo 1v5 and then have them say "I GOT NO SUPPORT".... best feeling ever
> [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AHQr0Er1,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-07T21:41:11.683+0000) > > When i singlehandedly give my adc 6-12 kills on bot lane as support only for them to throw the entire mid game by playing solo 1v5 and then have them say "I GOT NO SUPPORT".... best feeling ever The same is true for AD. What they really mean by "AD is overpowered" is that, you can be absolutely terrible at the game, get spoon fed 3 kills in lane, have the jungler deny the enemy lane, and then just follow the tank around and do as your told and you'll win every game
Rioter Comments
Whomp3r (NA)
: Hey fellow summoner, i honestly like this idea quite a bit, but to see this in action would take massive amounts of changes to the game to settle the no rune system. For example all lane bullies would probably become incredible in the due to not being able to take any defensive stats or even heals against them. But i really like the idea but i think it would settle weird. As much as i like the idea i dislike it as well they have always been in the game one way or another and to take that away would flop the game on its head.
Ok, but heres the reverse ask. If a champion is balanced around the notion that they don't have the tools needed to survive early, or even don't have the tools to be impactful early, does the availability of runes run counter to that notion. And furthermore, if you were to contend that the existence of runes and masteries provides the same potential to elevate their advantage for champion in the reverse scenario, isn't it then the case that they would disproportionately benefit certain unique balance states and dynamics, to disturb what would be an otherwise "Even" playing field. It would appear to me that Runes and Masteries simultaneously allow players to double down on a strength, or patch up a weakness, and while this represents a unique skill expression, it inevitably exists on a scale such that it serves only to exasperate existing balance problems, rather than playing out on a large enough scale to actually matter. A good example is the various "fighting styles" in Mortal Kombat, where truly you can cater the baseline abilities to a unique line, which allows you as the player to distinguish yourself and your strategy. However, in league, Runes are too small and too broad to really make that much of a difference such that individual expression would ever surpass statistical advantage and META (Most Effective Tactic Available). In essence, Rune and Masteries contort original design and balance intentions, exagerate existing problems, and obfuscate potential solutions
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: well the issue isnt the runes it was the fact it was gated by an IP cost. all they had to do was remove the IP cost let every one have full runes and didnt need to do the rune reforged
> [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EjwvUTBK,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-03-15T22:51:44.205+0000) > > well the issue isnt the runes it was the fact it was gated by an IP cost. > > all they had to do was remove the IP cost let every one have full runes and didnt need to do the rune reforged The idea of runes in general is just unfun in many ways. The more base stats you introduce the more valuable CDR and utility become. They're already super overtuned. Flat stats on runes make the game less fun. Shouldn't exist.
Rioter Comments
: i still want the old runes back. i never liked the idea of rune reforged
> [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EjwvUTBK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-15T01:22:14.958+0000) > > i still want the old runes back. i never liked the idea of rune reforged Having a stat disadvantage because you weren't willing to pay money for runes was really ass
: Don't get me wrong. I've mained Yorick for 2+ years and I can say that yes he did actually need a nerf. How they nerfed him was wrong - they went for gimping numbers instead of trying to reign in his ultimate's up-time (which is to say a fuckin' eternity until it's killed) despite the fact he wasn't a problem until the QoL buffs came out. But it is astounding that they would nerf Yorick before Riven instead of side-by-side when Riven offers far less options in terms of counterplay than Yorick does. Yorick you can dodge his E and have your jungler come and take out his maiden really easily (the damn thing can be smited for fuck's sake, lol), not to mention he's completely immobile as a champion and relies on trying to get people trapped within his wall, which isn't an impossible feat but it's certainly far from easy. Riven just dashes away with her insane mobility or dashes in. You can't run from her and you can't chase her down, meaning if she's ahead she stays ahead except by her own stupidity, and spear makes this issue far more glaring.
> [{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h4beGyFv,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-03-12T04:56:24.233+0000) > > Don't get me wrong. I've mained Yorick for 2+ years and I can say that yes he did actually need a nerf. How they nerfed him was wrong - they went for gimping numbers instead of trying to reign in his ultimate's up-time (which is to say a fuckin' eternity until it's killed) despite the fact he wasn't a problem until the QoL buffs came out. > > But it is astounding that they would nerf Yorick before Riven instead of side-by-side when Riven offers far less options in terms of counterplay than Yorick does. Yorick you can dodge his E and have your jungler come and take out his maiden really easily (the damn thing can be smited for fuck's sake, lol), not to mention he's completely immobile as a champion and relies on trying to get people trapped within his wall, which isn't an impossible feat but it's certainly far from easy. > > Riven just dashes away with her insane mobility or dashes in. You can't run from her and you can't chase her down, meaning if she's ahead she stays ahead except by her own stupidity, and spear makes this issue far more glaring. Yorrick uses mana and has to control the wave. "Was control and resource management? What's that" -Every fucking riven player ever.
: {{champion:157}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3087}} E > Q > AA _**" nice freeze "**_
> [{quoted}](name=Galaxyburstz,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=4joAP8Vm,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-11T17:22:44.640+0000) > > {{champion:157}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3087}} E > Q > AA > > _**" nice freeze "**_ Such interaction, much wow, many fun
: Flame isn't you giving constructive criticism to your team mates, in fact I'd encourage constructive criticism in any scenario it can be given. However, if you're trying to claim that the majority of what goes down in ranked is anywhere near constructive, you're lying out your ass lol. Don't get me wrong, I do totally believe ranked should be competitive and treated as such, but that doesn't give you the right to be a dick to someone because they did something wrong. You correct, you do not insult.
I don't have the voice comms to give me the luxury of farming and explaining that. "Get off your fucking camp and help me bounce the wave" is all I have time for
: Everything in the post seems to make sense except > The "Stop telling me how to play my champion" or "Don't tell me what to do" attitude needs to get out of ranked. To which i say https://youtu.be/0z2cLKmggoo?list=RD0z2cLKmggoo&t=24 Because seriously there is an extremely slim chance you actually know my champion better then me (assuming im not the d who first times it in ranked)
If full damage vi top is "How you play your champion" regardless of the game state, and you care more about that than the win, you are violating the summoners code. Thats blatant gameplay sabotage
: Imagine you fucked up at something you wanted ------------------------- like you really wanted a girl, but you failed to seduce her. like you really wanted to get the best grade on a test, but you totally failed to get it. Like you really wanted to buy the food from the shop, but it ran out and you didn't get it. Like you wanted to do well this game, but you died a few times due to your misplays or the enemy being better. How would you feel? My guess is, frustrated. Angry. At the enemy and/or yourself. And then someone else comes bossing you around. Are you going to listen to their advice or not? How often did you listen to TOTAL STRANGERS in this game telling you what to build or how to play while having a bad game. I don't recall a single instance of that happening to me. How many times, after something shitty happened irl, then a stranger came to you and started acting as if they are in charge and you were totally OK with it? While for girls it might happen. On average guys are more aggressive and non-agreeable. The worst thing you could do is make your own team mate your enemy. You will not make them play better, you'd give them a reason as to why losing is ok (to get back at you. And most players in this game are male. And even the girls and women playing this are having tomboy tendencies. Very few are girly girls that are agreeable, pacifist and will follow orders in order to rely on you. Most people in this game, based on the words you said above will mark you as an enemy rather than ally. Which means they are less likely to follow your calls. The only exception is when you are feed or you make big plays, then you might get some respect or authority, which will make other players follow you. But that's about it. This is also why I stopped trying after like the first year, telling people how to play or build in-game. They won't listen anyway. Sure sometimes when I see my adc always alone and the enemy with an assassin. I'd say something like hey xxxxx try to stick with the adc. Or : meh, the enemy adc is sooo hard to kill, always having the support by her side. I wish our adc won't solo farm at 30mins. Etc. And just ping objectives or call them to objectives. The first one is going against my entire thing above, but it's kind of a basic thing that I still passively aggressively say. While the objective call, is the main thing I should be doing.
"Careful, the person you criticize might not take your criticism well and become less cooperative" Sounds like they're not a team player. Win as a team, lose as a team. Some people like that just are determined to lose as a team
Jo0o (NA)
: You're correct, but in practice, the tone of the suggestions are often condescending or outright hostile, and the advice itself is frequently dumb. Let's say I'm playing Garen and getting camped into oblivion, so I'm 0/3 relatively early in the game with a Phage and a Tabi. Pinging my Phage and telling me to "get tanky" is pointless advice. Obviously I'm going to get tanky at some point, but I've sunk 1250 gold into a damage item already, and I'm losing lane because I'm heavily camped, not because I didn't pretend it was 2015 and rush Sunfire. Advice isn't flame. But condescending and uninformed advice, especially if spammed, is unhelpful and detrimental to morale.
You do realize iceborn and cleaver build out of tri force components. She had sheen phage. Thats it
Voldymort (EUNE)
: >Me telling you "Get off your camp and come cover me mid so I can complete the reset, get plates, and back" isn't flame. as long as that is **exactly** the way you phrase it and you don't include negative adjectives or other forms of toxicity, then yes. it's not flame. You need to keep in mind tho that the one you're speaking to is perfectly free to choose not to do as you ask. And you need to adapt to that outcome and not procede to throw a tantrum. >The "Stop telling me how to play my champion" or "Don't tell me what to do" attitude needs to get out of ranked. but... why do they only need to do what you say and not make decisions of their own? who died and made you team captain in a solo queue game? >We're here to win. If what it takes to win is unfun to you, too fucking bad, should have played normals truth be told, if you're not having fun playing, the win is no longer meaningful. if you haven't had games where, despite winning, you didn't feel any shred of entertainment from the game then you probaly won't understand my p.o.v. on the matter >telling you "Stop trying to get triforce, go cleaver iceborn." isn't flame. There isn't enough gold on the map for you to continue that stupid fucking build. what someone builds and how they play the game is **their choice**, not yours, regardless if it's an optimal strategy or not. >because you are actively sabotaging the game when you continue to try and force a strategy that has failed. Being bad at the game is allowed. Being a backseat gamer is not. The mute button exists for that sort of attitude in particular. >When you have failed, ~~telling~~ **asking** you to change tactics is not flame. FTFY
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eErkmAcg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-07T12:38:33.677+0000) > who died and made you team captain in a solo queue game? They did, they died. Repeatedly, and put all of us in the position where we have to be carful and strategic with our remaining time ans resources on the map
Rioter Comments
: ping spamming
Trust me, when my mentally handicapped jungler is face checking the baron pit when they're obviously just camping the bush, when he stops to type at me and tell me to fuck off, i got what i wanted. He doesn't walk into the bush, cause hes too busy flaming me. I get what I want
: Getting raged at for uncommon Champion selections/builds?
So heres an important thing you need to realize. There are circumstances which make those strats workable, to the point that its whatever. However, there are scenarios where certain builds are just straight up inting. Like, you are intentionally putting your team at a disadvantage. If you play toplane vi full damage, ok. If you play toplane vi, are 0/4 at 16 minutes and have you PhageSheen Tabis and nothing else you have a choice. If you build CLeaver Iceborn deadmans from that point on, its unfortunate you din't get to do what you wanted. If from that point, you continue to go triforce sterraks shojin, you're actually inting. Theres nothing wrong with off meta builds and strategies. What is a problem, is where you have failed to execute the strat, and the choose not to adapt to the game situation and play according to whats happening in the game. If you keep building expensive damage items when you're behind on a champ like Vi toplane, you're inting. You will reported. You should be banned.
: The game is actually unplayable.
Well here's a thought. You may be here to play a certain champion, but everyone else is here to play league of legends. If you getting to play the champion how you want interferes with everyone else playing a fair, fun, and interactive game, then you can go pack sand. I haven't seen new Kayle, but old Kayle blew dick. Her kit was so badly designed, that the only way she could be even remotely balanced was to just get numerically dumpstered. That champion was so unfun to play against. You either did nothing, and she was useless, and you won the game doing nothing. Or, you made a.mistake, Kayle got ahead, and she massacred everything while invulnerable and there was nothing you could do to stop it because the champion was "balanced" around not getting a lead. Learn new Kayle, learn a new champ, play League. If you're here to play Kayle of Legends, then you're not who they're designing for, and shouldn't be who they're designing for.
: > [{quoted}](name=Azeranth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0PJigy1g,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-03-02T09:30:45.604+0000) > > Actually, Yasuo doesn't underperform. > > His winrate is low, 48.65%, but that's just winrate in NA in platinum plus. > > According to stat analysis on Champion.gg, despite a low winrate, Yasuo hold 3rd place in his role (mid) for combined stats of damage, kills, deaths, CS Gold Per Minute, and pressure. > > Outside of NA, Yasuo also performs well. The most apparent causitive factor being that the people who play him there actually play him. The rate of people just trying out Yasuo or playing him here and there is far lower outside NA. > > NA is the only place you'll find Yas Mordekaiser botlane in Masters. Don't believe, go watch some Imaqtpie and Dyrus where they play it bot and jungle. > > 9/10 they feed their ass off and lose because they weren't really trying to win. > > In less for fun regions, Yasuo is a monster. > > Also, as for why he's not played in LCS is because he offers absolutely nothing to his team. He's total single player experience. > > To be clear, I didn't say he was crazy op, or even easy. I said he was uninteractive and unfun to play against. Yasuo isn't about being better than the opponent. It's about meeting a minimum mechanical skill floor. Oh, and am I completely correct in assuming you tried checking the numbers for other regions and didn't include them because they also prove you wrong? A long-winded false claim is still a false claim.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0PJigy1g,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-02T09:33:18.213+0000) > > Oh, and am I completely correct in assuming you tried checking the numbers for other regions and didn't include them because they also prove you wrong? > > A long-winded false claim is still a false claim. I did mention the numbers in other regions. His ban and play rates are lower every where else, his win rate is higher. So far this patch, his winrate is 49.4 in Korea, last patch it was 50.2 In EU it is 48.7, last patch it was 48.3 In in OCE it's 49.6 last patch, 49.3 That's really good for a champion who is ostensibly all about highly committed players with lots of experience and mechanical talent on his kit.
: Just as well, the claim >He has no Mana, so any champion with Mana must either. A.) Fail miserably to match his push, ooming yourself and losing all the minions to the tower. B.) Attempt to trade with him, losing every trade because he has the wave advantage at all times. And still oom yourself, because you can't trade and push. Also has no basis in reality. Before mana enemies get their single item with 400 mana, 80 AP, and 20% CDR, they still outrange him. You not knowing how to conserve your mana correctly until the point where you get 400 extra has nothing to do with Yasuo.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0PJigy1g,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-03-02T09:22:18.273+0000) > > Just as well, the claim > A.) Fail miserably to match his push, ooming yourself and losing all the minions to the tower. > B.) Attempt to trade with him, losing every trade because he has the wave advantage at all times. And still oom yourself, because you can't trade and push. > > Also has no basis in reality. Before mana enemies get their single item with 400 mana, 80 AP, and 20% CDR, they still outrange him. You not knowing how to conserve your mana correctly until the point where you get 400 extra has nothing to do with Yasuo. The point I'm making is about the ability to shove him in or abuse him. Which is to say, there isn't one. Usually first back in an uneventful lane is level 7-9. When he hits 6, and gets his first back, his passives put him far beyond reach of normal laning with gold efficiency, and it only gets worse. Especially, since even with that Mana to spam and harrass, you still don't out push him, and if he catches you with a single tornado, you're just instantly dead as an immobile mage. Especially if you've burned cooldowns shoving. Which is another important note. The example i gave was a pure hypothetical, demonstrating how unrealistic it was to create a situation where you truly were ahead of the Yasuo's tempo. In reality, it's actually worse, because you can't trade AND push. You can't farm and harrass with autos. Each time you approach the wave, you must choose one. Given how heavily he is able to pressure on a neutral wave, you also don't get many chance to walk up for free. Since he doesn't make the same decisions, as his abilities do both simultaneously, and he doesn't have to expend a common resource between his ability to fight and push, such as Mana. He wins sustain, flat out. He pushes better from first wave, flat out. He trades better because of his passive, slipperiness, and the AOE CLEAVE EMPOWERED AUTO RESET. And even if you beat him in all this, he still has such a massive mound of free shit in his passives that it never actually puts you in a position of advantage, it only mildly decreases your disadvantage.
: But you're not even comparing him to anyone, so your first claim >Yasuo is, to date, the single most uninteractive and poorly designed champion yet conceived of by Riot Games, and new conqueror actually makes it worse. holds no weight. Nor do the claims after. You've provided no context. If anything, the fact you listed all this and yet Yasuo still underperforms is evidence to support that he is part of the norm, where every champion sounds just as crazy, not an exception to a normally balanced game.
Actually, Yasuo doesn't underperform. His winrate is low, 48.65%, but that's just winrate in NA in platinum plus. According to stat analysis on Champion.gg, despite a low winrate, Yasuo hold 3rd place in his role (mid) for combined stats of damage, kills, deaths, CS Gold Per Minute, and pressure. Outside of NA, Yasuo also performs well. The most apparent causitive factor being that the people who play him there actually play him. The rate of people just trying out Yasuo or playing him here and there is far lower outside NA. NA is the only place you'll find Yas Mordekaiser botlane in Masters. Don't believe, go watch some Imaqtpie and Dyrus where they play it bot and jungle. 9/10 they feed their ass off and lose because they weren't really trying to win. In less for fun regions, Yasuo is a monster. Also, as for why he's not played in LCS is because he offers absolutely nothing to his team. He's total single player experience. To be clear, I didn't say he was crazy op, or even easy. I said he was uninteractive and unfun to play against. Yasuo isn't about being better than the opponent. It's about meeting a minimum mechanical skill floor.
Azeranth (NA)
: Yasuo is a Problem
Also, to be clear. There is a censored part in this post. The censored word is C'h'i'n'k Just real quick, I want to inform Riot that the word %%%%% is not just a racial slur. It's actually a part of the English language, and its actually a part of idomatic expression "%%%%% in the armor" Here's the Merriam Webster for %%%%% noun a narrow opening or crack, typically one that admits light. But I'm glad to see you've got your priorities hammered out here.
Rioter Comments
: I don't understand why mobile/evasive champs get to enjoy strong damage values
It's almost like champions with reliable backline access shouldn't be able to make most effective use of that access, because that encourages a degenerate meta of greedy solo play, one shotting and Jax, Irelia, Camille and bruiser Zed.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Some thoughts on more dated female champions, from a girl
So to clarify a few things: When i used sexy, I largely meant "risque" My last statement was intentionally hyperbolic and reductive. Its to make a point out of how ridiculous it is to let the sex of the character influence you playing them. I don't play Leona cause shes a girl, and I don't play Brand cause hes a dude. Iplay them cause I enjoy their kits. Same is true of Yorrick, Blitz, Katarina, Alistar, Soraka, Udyr, Darius, Renekton, and every other champ I enjoy playing. Furthermore, what do you mean "relate" to a character? Is that just some fancy word which means you like them, but gives you the vagueness to play games with meanings? If you mean its required for you to insert yourself into the character to have fun, I'd tell you perhaps you're taking that to an extreme. If not, then you need to figure out why you can't feel like a badass or a hero (or whatever it is you want) with a character, when their kit is suitably aligned with that. Then to what you said about twitch. Firstly, no, there is no barrier to entry that female streamers experience, except that perhaps all the titty streamers are the most representative group of women on Twitch. But honestly, if you can't overcome or ignore a few horny twelve year olds, then you probably shouldn't be in entertainment anyway. Secondly, I can not name a single female challenger streamer. Poki and Lilypichu are the only Diamond ones I know of. It is currently 12:00 EST, and I am scrolling through twitch. I was two pages down before I found the first female streamer, she was Korean and had 1,000 Viewers. I had a league streaming buddy who had 75 as a good day for months upon months. Hes finally getting up there, and has also branched out some, but realize, there are: A.) Not that many High Teir Females B.) Not that many Female Streamers If there really was some barrier to entry males didn't experience, then you would expect that as I scrolled down further and further, I would just be drowning in female streamers, but going lower and lower the next female stream was Chinese, with 397 viewers. YOu're telling me that within that 600 viewer space, where I passed over about 30 streamers, 10 of which were english, that there are just no females? But there are 1500 people out there who will watch them, but everyone else won't? That ridiculous Lastly then, why do the current male streamers have the upper hand? Well firstly, brute force. There are just more of them, and they're on average higher skill. LCS is entirely male. Not because they have a no girls club, but because there are hardly any trying out. Scouting grounds had no females this year, AND THEY HAD TO PULL A SUPPORT MAIN OFF ROLE TO JUNGLE FOR A TEAM. You're telling me there are all these talented females out there getting passed over, but they couldn't find one female jungler instead of pulling in a support? The one female team that did make a run for it, sucked, and then fell apart due to them all being catty, immature, whiny, oversensitive brats. But when you look at Imaqtpie, when you look at Tyler1, Iwilldominate, Dyrus, Shiphtur. There guys aren't just good, they have a brand. Like Kellogs, a recognizable brand. Back when Shiptur and Scarra were grinding it up back at 1500 viewers, even then, they had a brand. Something which was distinctly them. Back when Tyler1 was playing fucking roblox, he was still "T1, alpha as fuck" and when Dyrus went and played Nier Automata for 3 months, it was still his birthday every stream. Imaqtpie has the "World greatest star start ADC" go read his stream title, they're alway some ridiculous thing, which is cut off half wy through cause its just gibberish. Scarra wears his minecraft diamond armor cause he sucks, and Chapanya is the rock monster. Lilypichi and Poki also have brands, so does Yassuo. And thats why they're successful, cause they're a personality, not just a streamer. Even the most unengaging, ridiculous stream of PinkWard, playing arguably the worst champ in the game at times, got viewers, cause he is PinkWard. That dude is nothing but deadpan expressions and reddit clips. Hes still famous though! Not cause hes male, not cause he got a free ticket past some invisible wall, but because there is a defining characteristic that establishes who is and is not a good streamer. Personality. Now, that being said, are there any reasons we see more males with these traits than females? Yes, quite a few actually. Firstly, is that men simply get more practice at it. Both among themselves, and when engaging with females. In order for a guy to fit in a social dynamic, he has to establish himself in someway. In order to be worthy of the groups time, effort, attention, and support, he has to fulfill some role. Otherwise, hes useless, and a waste. Thats left over from a long time ago, when humans were simple pack animals, but the instinct that drives it persists today, and its quite useful too. Its what pushes men, to push eachother. Its what forms the foundation of the pack bonding that puts in check other primal instincts. So, the talent of creating a personality, and living it out, is vital for all men in social situations. Guys will be rough with one another. Physically, and socially. They have to build up a keen eye for spotting actual trouble, and build confidence and self image in order to persist in the face of their endless "ballbusting" amongst one another. As for interacting with women though, the same is true. All those years of roughhousing, ballbusting, teasing, fighting, and friendship among their fellow dude bros, are the exercises that give them exactly the skills they need to essentially, deal with and seduce a mate. When a guy needs to impress a woman, having the skills needed to just go out there, make an ass of yourself, just put it all on the line in the face of absolute embarrassment, is exactly what being convinced by eight other people to eat a spider prepares you for. It also prepares you for turning on a camera, and inting your face off 0/13 in front of a live audience. Then, after you have got a partner, other useful skills kick in. Skills like listening to you partner say some wild crazy ass female shit like "I'll fuck all your friends, I don't care" just cause you forgot to call her on your way back from work, shes a fucking lunatic. You can't tell her shes a lunatic though, cause she grew up around a bunch of other girls who were nice to, and lied to her. Unlike you, who is 6'1" but people still call "Runt" because you were 5'3" until sophomore year. Being able to say "Well thats just how she is" is skill you just don't get from nowhere, and its a skill that pays off when twitch chat is flying by at a thousand miles an hour, spamming the most degenerate shit you have ever seen. ___ The cold reality of it is, is that world is a mans world, and its because when they're young, guys are just dicks to one another. They pull no punches, they provoke one another, they just do shit for the fun of it. So by the time guys gotta go deal with a cold, unforgiving, and capricious world, they've already built a thick skin. It also just so happens that 90% of careers out there, reward those qualities. Twitch streaming is one of them. You know what else is though? Looking at a big ass muscly dude in armor, a stereotype of a stereotype, named Garen, who barely speaks english and is a righteous defender, and be able to play that character without some sort of mental disconnect, because I have a well developed sense of self. If you can't do the same, get some guy friends, be one of the guys for a while, and you'll reach the same conclusions. Its not about sex, its about the environment (Though granted, sex specific instincts do lead males to create those environments for themselves)
Papuga (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Azeranth,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Y9UyER3H,comment-id=002400010001,timestamp=2018-12-01T08:58:19.238+0000) > > There are a variety of female character types. A large portion of then gave sexiness in common, but as I pointed out, there's on champ, Eve who is explicitly defined sexually. That's who she is. > How do you define the different character type. For men I would say: age, body shape/size, height, amount of muscle, posture (maybe?), state of dress (as many point out Gragas, Tryn and Braun are indeed shirtless), atmosphere of a character (think Yoricks glumynesss though he's been much cheerier since his update). We could of course use the same traits and we should. I don't have the time to do the analysis but I'd posit that you'd end up with less variability among female characters and a predominance of the 'sexy' character trait though I hesitate to use that wording as it's hard to define and means different things to different people. I will say that a proper analysis of this specific topic would likely need to exlcude the majority of reworked/new champs because I personally I'm very happy with how they portray female characters. This would of course raise the issue of tailoring the sample population to my argument, but, this post largely singled out older champs as the philosophy at time was different then it is now. To put it differently, what I am asking for is that the visuals and VOs for these Champs be brought up to date with the current mindset/culture/philosophy at Riot. > When I named all those various archetypes, notice the overlap. My point was you can pick any arbitrary archetype and winge about it. > > But what about Kayle, Illaoi, Annie, Reksai, Sivir (The Rattatat Queen), Lisandra, Leona, Morgana. All characters which do not feature physical attractiveness among their many desirable traits. You've got big muscle thighs kraken preistess, servant of the sun, angelic warrior. Is there a particular archetype you're missing that you want? > Other than Annie (too young) and reksai (not human) I would not hesitate in saying that all the champs you mentioned above actually do indeed feature physical attractiveness among their traits. Simple example, any Sivir splash art. Among the listed champions the one that stands out to me is Illaoi. I just want see more of that 'spark' that makes her stand out among the others. Illaoi is still physically attractive and she is not necessarily well endowed and willowy. I guess what I am saying is I want the same thoughtfulness, originality and uniqueness that's gone into Illaoi's design, and into the design of many of the newer/reworked champs, put into some of the older champs. To break them from the well endowed and willowy figure mold which they seem to all have been designed from. > Or are you just choosing to ignore the reality that when you click on the E Girl twitch channels, they're playing Lux and Janna and it's probably for a reason. > I don't see the relevance of the above statement nor can I speak to the streamer's motivations. It did get me thinking though. Considering that male players span the spectrum of skill in League and physical attractiveness it should follow that female gamers would be represented similarly. However, if you look at the distribution of types of streamers we get a distinct divide. Popular male streams tend to be due to high skill. Popular female streams due to looks (skill not withstanding). I am going to assume that skilled female players would like to get into streaming, however, it remains difficult. There exists a barrier to entry that male players don't experience (experience less). A large part of that barrier is the streaming community on those channels. Their behaviour and comments ostricize the streamer and part of what enables this type of behaviour is how female characters are portrayed in game, and I would say that it is not the newer champs but rather the older champs, relics of a different time and a different Riot, which help sustain this sort of behaviour and views in the community. > Also, if the female champs just don't do it for you, is there something wrong with just playing the male ones? Or does the content of the characters pants really matter that much to you? And why? > > I'll tell you what the last thing that influences my pick is, the charcaters penis. I honestly don't believe we can or should be okay with the above, essentially summarized as 'tough, if you don't like it, don't play'. And simplifying why people relate to certain characters to such simplistic statements does neither you, me or the community much credit.
So to clarify a few things: When i used sexy, I largely meant "risque" My last statement was intentionally hyperbolic and reductive. Its to make a point out of how ridiculous it is to let the sex of the character influence you playing them. I don't play Leona cause shes a girl, and I don't play Brand cause hes a dude. Iplay them cause I enjoy their kits. Same is true of Yorrick, Blitz, Katarina, Alistar, Soraka, Udyr, Darius, Renekton, and every other champ I enjoy playing. Furthermore, what do you mean "relate" to a character? Is that just some fancy word which means you like them, but gives you the vagueness to play games with meanings? If you mean its required for you to insert yourself into the character to have fun, I'd tell you perhaps you're taking that to an extreme. If not, then you need to figure out why you can't feel like a badass or a hero (or whatever it is you want) with a character, when their kit is suitably aligned with that. Then to what you said about twitch. Firstly, no, there is no barrier to entry that female streamers experience, except that perhaps all the titty streamers are the most representative group of women on Twitch. But honestly, if you can't overcome or ignore a few horny twelve year olds, then you probably shouldn't be in entertainment anyway. Secondly, I can not name a single female challenger streamer. Poki and Lilypichu are the only Diamond ones I know of. It is currently 12:00 EST, and I am scrolling through twitch. I was two pages down before I found the first female streamer, she was Korean and had 1,000 Viewers. I had a league streaming buddy who had 75 as a good day for months upon months. Hes finally getting up there, and has also branched out some, but realize, there are: A.) Not that many High Teir Females B.) Not that many Female Streamers If there really was some barrier to entry males didn't experience, then you would expect that as I scrolled down further and further, I would just be drowning in female streamers, but going lower and lower the next female stream was Chinese, with 397 viewers. YOu're telling me that within that 600 viewer space, where I passed over about 30 streamers, 10 of which were english, that there are just no females? But there are 1500 people out there who will watch them, but everyone else won't? That ridiculous Lastly then, why do the current male streamers have the upper hand? Well firstly, brute force. There are just more of them, and they're on average higher skill. LCS is entirely male. Not because they have a no girls club, but because there are hardly any trying out. Scouting grounds had no females this year, AND THEY HAD TO PULL A SUPPORT MAIN OFF ROLE TO JUNGLE FOR A TEAM. You're telling me there are all these talented females out there getting passed over, but they couldn't find one female jungler instead of pulling in a support? The one female team that did make a run for it, sucked, and then fell apart due to them all being catty, immature, whiny, oversensitive brats. But when you look at Imaqtpie, when you look at Tyler1, Iwilldominate, Dyrus, Shiphtur. There guys aren't just good, they have a brand. Like Kellogs, a recognizable brand. Back when Shiptur and Scarra were grinding it up back at 1500 viewers, even then, they had a brand. Something which was distinctly them. Back when Tyler1 was playing fucking roblox, he was still "T1, alpha as fuck" and when Dyrus went and played Nier Automata for 3 months, it was still his birthday every stream. Imaqtpie has the "World greatest star start ADC" go read his stream title, they're alway some ridiculous thing, which is cut off half wy through cause its just gibberish. Scarra wears his minecraft diamond armor cause he sucks, and Chapanya is the rock monster. Lilypichi and Poki also have brands, so does Yassuo. And thats why they're successful, cause they're a personality, not just a streamer. Even the most unengaging, ridiculous stream of PinkWard, playing arguably the worst champ in the game at times, got viewers, cause he is PinkWard. That dude is nothing but deadpan expressions and reddit clips. Hes still famous though! Not cause hes male, not cause he got a free ticket past some invisible wall, but because there is a defining characteristic that establishes who is and is not a good streamer. Personality. Now, that being said, are there any reasons we see more males with these traits than females? Yes, quite a few actually. Firstly, is that men simply get more practice at it. Both among themselves, and when engaging with females. In order for a guy to fit in a social dynamic, he has to establish himself in someway. In order to be worthy of the groups time, effort, attention, and support, he has to fulfill some role. Otherwise, hes useless, and a waste. Thats left over from a long time ago, when humans were simple pack animals, but the instinct that drives it persists today, and its quite useful too. Its what pushes men, to push eachother. Its what forms the foundation of the pack bonding that puts in check other primal instincts. So, the talent of creating a personality, and living it out, is vital for all men in social situations. Guys will be rough with one another. Physically, and socially. They have to build up a keen eye for spotting actual trouble, and build confidence and self image in order to persist in the face of their endless "ballbusting" amongst one another. As for interacting with women though, the same is true. All those years of roughhousing, ballbusting, teasing, fighting, and friendship among their fellow dude bros, are the exercises that give them exactly the skills they need to essentially, deal with and seduce a mate. When a guy needs to impress a woman, having the skills needed to just go out there, make an ass of yourself, just put it all on the line in the face of absolute embarrassment, is exactly what being convinced by eight other people to eat a spider prepares you for. It also prepares you for turning on a camera, and inting your face off 0/13 in front of a live audience. Then, after you have got a partner, other useful skills kick in. Skills like listening to you partner say some wild crazy ass female shit like "I'll fuck all your friends, I don't care" just cause you forgot to call her on your way back from work, shes a fucking lunatic. You can't tell her shes a lunatic though, cause she grew up around a bunch of other girls who were nice to, and lied to her. Unlike you, who is 6'1" but people still call "Runt" because you were 5'3" until sophomore year. Being able to say "Well thats just how she is" is skill you just don't get from nowhere, and its a skill that pays off when twitch chat is flying by at a thousand miles an hour, spamming the most degenerate shit you have ever seen. ___ The cold reality of it is, is that world is a mans world, and its because when they're young, guys are just dicks to one another. They pull no punches, they provoke one another, they just do shit for the fun of it. So by the time guys gotta go deal with a cold, unforgiving, and capricious world, they've already built a thick skin. It also just so happens that 90% of careers out there, reward those qualities. Twitch streaming is one of them. You know what else is though? Looking at a big ass muscly dude in armor, a stereotype of a stereotype, named Garen, who barely speaks english and is a righteous defender, and be able to play that character without some sort of mental disconnect, because I have a well developed sense of self. If you can't do the same, get some guy friends, be one of the guys for a while, and you'll reach the same conclusions. Its not about sex, its about the environment (Though granted, sex specific instincts do lead males to create those environments for themselves)
Rioter Comments
Papuga (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Azeranth,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Y9UyER3H,comment-id=0024,timestamp=2018-12-01T00:32:31.593+0000) > > You're trolling me, right? Like seriously? "These characters aren't strippers, they shouldn't have these unreasonable expectations". Right, cause there are no male characters that play strongly into exaggerated masculine stereotypes, and capitalize upon societal pressure and expectation about what defines ideal or superior males. > > I mean, seriously. To start with, lets start with explicitly gorgeous males, to the point where it is a defining trait of their character. > * Ezreal > * Jayce > * Rakan > * Taric > Do you know how many female characters are explicitly defined by their beauty first and foremost? Evelynn. Thats it. Sort of Leblanc, maybe, I guess, but the implication there is that she uses her magic to trick and mislead the people she manipulates. > > Now lets continue, let mention male characters who are some representative of physique or fitness. > * Darius > * Draven > * Garen > * Xin Zhao > * Lee Sin > * Shen > * Jayce again > * Ezreal again > > Then lets look at male champions who embody something along the line of "Big strong protector" or "Who sacrifices for others" > * Galio > * Garen > * Jarvan > * Nautilus > * Shen > * Special note!! Yorrick is literally "The SHEPHERD Of Lost Souls" who has condemned himself to eternal suffering under a blood curse upon his home, simply to lead others to the beyond, so they may be spared his same horrendous fate. > > Then lets look at male champions who are defined by being the biggest baddest strongest conqueror. By being the peak predator. > * Darius > * Draven > * Swain > * Aatrox > * Jax > * Lee Sin > * Graves > * Tahm Kench and Twisted Fate, even though muscle isn't the way through which they take and conqueror in their bloody line of work > * Jayce > * Khazix > * Master Yi > * Ornn > * Shen > * Taric > * Udyr > * Yasuo > > I think you would be exceedingly hard pressed to find any champions, of either sex, which do not make extensive use of stereotypes about the sexes, and use these to form familiar narrative characters which are familiar, and draw from a plethora of cultural sources. > Except male stereotypes are more varied. Not to mention its hard to compare how male characters are treated vs how female characters are treated because the environment in which they are views is much different. > If you look at Miss Fortune and say "Her titties are big, and that is obviously the most definitive thing about her character." You're not only exceptionally stupid, perhaps even willfully and intentionally dumb in this case, you have to be an incredibly conceited and disrespectful prick to honestly believe that anyone else would hold such a significant weight upon someone's sexuality as to treat it like a defining characteristic of a participant in a grand tournament to the death. > Except it seems to be the focus of much of her splash art and skins. A number of her VO lines. > If you think "The cougar joke Nidalee has for a dance" is demeans her, because of its sexual nature, then that mean > 1. You think that Nidalee is defined in large part by her sexuality > 2. You're incapable of separating a character, who they are, what they do, and what they embody, and a cheeky joke left over from small indie company Riot Games, back when Nidalee also passively gave 5xp to lower level champions near her. Maybe you don't understand the cougar joke, but thats your ignorance. Dang dude, cool down there. I would like to point out one thing. Look at how many different types of 'ideal' male imagery you just show cased. It's much more varied then what we have with female Champions which is largely beautiful woman with large breasts. Maybe we'd like a bit more variaty in their design, to match the variaty in male Champion design.
There are a variety of female character types. A large portion of then gave sexiness in common, but as I pointed out, there's on champ, Eve who is explicitly defined sexually. That's who she is. When I named all those various archetypes, notice the overlap. My point was you can pick any arbitrary archetype and winge about it. But what about Kayle, Illaoi, Annie, Reksai, Sivir (The Rattatat Queen), Lisandra, Leona, Morgana. All characters which do not feature physical attractiveness among their many desirable traits. You've got big muscle thighs kraken preistess, servant of the sun, angelic warrior. Is there a particular archetype you're missing that you want? Or are you just choosing to ignore the reality that when you click on the E Girl twitch channels, they're playing Lux and Janna and it's probably for a reason. Also, if the female champs just don't do it for you, is there something wrong with just playing the male ones? Or does the content of the characters pants really matter that much to you? And why? I'll tell you what the last thing that influences my pick is, the charcaters penis.
: Although I agree that Riot is a bit unrealistic with male character, there is a valid reason for most of the men's design. Many of these people are master warriors, and as a result should be at the peak of physical fitness. Of course people you describe as protectors and peak protectors are going to be strong, burly people. That's kind of the point.
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBot666,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Y9UyER3H,comment-id=00240002,timestamp=2018-12-01T02:34:29.469+0000) > > Although I agree that Riot is a bit unrealistic with male character, there is a valid reason for most of the men's design. Many of these people are master warriors, and as a result should be at the peak of physical fitness. Of course people you describe as protectors and peak protectors are going to be strong, burly people. That's kind of the point. Yes, it's almost as if, they give no regard to reality, because it's useful to narrative to ignore such things, and explicitly exaggerate positive traits, specifically for contrast against the actually significant traits. If a character is nice, or gorgeous, or friendly, or pleasant to be around, that doesn't stick out. It means that when the character is rude, stupid, ugly, or cruel it stands out, additionally, it provides a basis of contrast in the opposite direction where the character is exceptionally kind, exceedingly charismatic and the like. It just seem arbitrary to choose attractiveness as the feature to draw lines in the sand about, and even still, it's a true testament of stupidity if you honestly believe that sexuality is so defining to characters who obviously have far more to them.
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=KestrelGirl,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Y9UyER3H,comment-id=00240000,timestamp=2018-12-01T00:33:47.318+0000) > > Okay, so you're gonna go with that route, huh. Completely misunderstand everything I say. Go back to The_Donald and keep doing it. No, I just think its an absurd belief, that in some way, the attractiveness and the advertising of that attractiveness is somehow unnaceptable. There are all kinds of examples of traits which designers and artists pull from when creating a hero. They tend to chose desirable traits as defaults, and these tend to be influenced entirely by cultural perceptions about good and bad. You are the one who misunderstands, and your comment about The_Donald, which I don't go to let alone frequent, that proves how dogmatic and ill conceived your notions are. I had three points, they are as follows. 1. Theres nothing wrong with sexy characters, sexy and being defined by sex are not the same thing, and being sexy doesn't reduce the quality of a character. 2. There are plenty of examples of similarly sexy and explictly sexualized male characters, its not a uniquely female phenomenon 3. If you really do think that heavily pulling on stereotypes and perceptions about desirability, why not all these other massive stereotypes that many males fall under. Whats different about those? Where is the outcry and complaint about them? Could it perhaps be that your lack of complaint or care about those is because they aren't relevant to females? If you are indignant about my hastiness to presume sexist motivation when it comes to my point about other prolific stereotypings and archetypes, remember, you're the one who prefaced your entire opinion with "As a woman" as if your vagina somehow influenced the quality or merit of the subsequent points. Thats called sexism, believing that someone's sex is somehow relevant to their capacity to perform, or in this case, to express an opinion that stands n its own merits
: Some thoughts on more dated female champions, from a girl
You're trolling me, right? Like seriously? "These characters aren't strippers, they shouldn't have these unreasonable expectations". Right, cause there are no male characters that play strongly into exaggerated masculine stereotypes, and capitalize upon societal pressure and expectation about what defines ideal or superior males. I mean, seriously. To start with, lets start with explicitly gorgeous males, to the point where it is a defining trait of their character. * Ezreal * Jayce * Rakan * Taric Do you know how many female characters are explicitly defined by their beauty first and foremost? Evelynn. Thats it. Sort of Leblanc, maybe, I guess, but the implication there is that she uses her magic to trick and mislead the people she manipulates. Now lets continue, let mention male characters who are some representative of physique or fitness. * Darius * Draven * Garen * Xin Zhao * Lee Sin * Shen * Jayce again * Ezreal again Then lets look at male champions who embody something along the line of "Big strong protector" or "Who sacrifices for others" * Galio * Garen * Jarvan * Nautilus * Shen * Special note!! Yorrick is literally "The SHEPHERD Of Lost Souls" who has condemned himself to eternal suffering under a blood curse upon his home, simply to lead others to the beyond, so they may be spared his same horrendous fate. Then lets look at male champions who are defined by being the biggest baddest strongest conqueror. By being the peak predator. * Darius * Draven * Swain * Aatrox * Jax * Lee Sin * Graves * Tahm Kench and Twisted Fate, even though muscle isn't the way through which they take and conqueror in their bloody line of work * Jayce * Khazix * Master Yi * Ornn * Shen * Taric * Udyr * Yasuo I think you would be exceedingly hard pressed to find any champions, of either sex, which do not make extensive use of stereotypes about the sexes, and use these to form familiar narrative characters which are familiar, and draw from a plethora of cultural sources. If you look at Miss Fortune and say "Her titties are big, and that is obviously the most definitive thing about her character." You're not only exceptionally stupid, perhaps even willfully and intentionally dumb in this case, you have to be an incredibly conceited and disrespectful prick to honestly believe that anyone else would hold such a significant weight upon someone's sexuality as to treat it like a defining characteristic of a participant in a grand tournament to the death. If you think "The cougar joke Nidalee has for a dance" is demeans her, because of its sexual nature, then that mean 1. You think that Nidalee is defined in large part by her sexuality 2. You're incapable of separating a character, who they are, what they do, and what they embody, and a cheeky joke left over from small indie company Riot Games, back when Nidalee also passively gave 5xp to lower level champions near her. Maybe you don't understand the cougar joke, but thats your ignorance.
: I cant play botlane, that means ADC AND SUPPORT, i hate duo lanes and will never learn to do it. Being dependant of an other person is not my experience of gameplay im searching of.
> [{quoted}](name=Arìes Wínd,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=xEagsOqA,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-11-11T01:26:51.514+0000) > > I cant play botlane, that means ADC AND SUPPORT, i hate duo lanes and will never learn to do it. Being dependant of an other person is not my experience of gameplay im searching of. Well then dodge fucker, and don't ruin the game. YOu don't want to experience a part of the game, then don't. Don't make the rest of us suffer, you deal with the long queue times and penalties. YOu're the picky one who isn't willing to play the whole game
: Play thresh
> [{quoted}](name=JeaneGreene,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=deWL3hQ7,comment-id=00140000,timestamp=2018-11-10T16:53:36.511+0000) > > Play thresh I do play thresh, thats exactly my complaint, is that I play thresh, even if I set up a perfect hook angle that forces her to W, or even if I land a flay on her cause she mispositioned, unless my team can instantly blow her up, it doesnt matter, because there is no opportunity to abuse the window I provided. My AD can't make use of the chance to do damage, because the low CD on leblanc W makes it too small. Worse yet, even if I do want to run the leblanc down, I can't because she E'd me when I got on top of her, W'd away, and the range is so long, that I can never catch her, and she is in absolutely no danger. Its stupid, the low W cd and high tether range makes her absolutely safe at all times, but able to pick up so many kills she shouldn't be able to for so little risk
: I imagine Karma Tethering you at PointBlank is going to ensure it's pretty hard to escape as well. Once again, Leblanc is designed around doing exactly that. Karma has the benefit of her Snare doing extra, and a shield. All Leblanc has is a defense that only activates when she's about to die. I've said this once before. The delay isn't for you to get away. It's for you to man up and fight the Leblanc. You know exactly where she's coming from, just like you would a Zed ulting you. Take advantage of that
> [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=deWL3hQ7,comment-id=00020000000000020000,timestamp=2018-11-10T16:57:16.049+0000) > > I imagine Karma Tethering you at PointBlank is going to ensure it's pretty hard to escape as well. Once again, Leblanc is designed around doing exactly that. Karma has the benefit of her Snare doing extra, and a shield. All Leblanc has is a defense that only activates when she's about to die. > > I've said this once before. The delay isn't for you to get away. It's for you to man up and fight the Leblanc. You know exactly where she's coming from, just like you would a Zed ulting you. Take advantage of that But if the Zed uses his clone back out, unless he got onto you without using his first shadow, then the Zed has no way to finish the kill. The current issue with Leblanc is that when she Ws on top of you, hits the chain, and then instantly Ws back out, if you don't instantly flash out of chain range, she can just walk still well within the tether range. If karma runs in and tethers you point blank, not only did she somehow manage to get there, she then has to stay there. Lebalanc does not have to stay inside a dangerous range to maintain her chain, and any distance she gives up to remain safe, is easily made up by her just walking forward during the root. If zed uses his R clone escape, he has no way back to finish the kill. His ulti expires, and he lacks any tools to stop you so he can walk back up. Just like karma, Zed has to not only get onto, but remain on, the target. Leblanc does not have this as well. A nerf to her chain tether length would fix that, in fact, it would be best if it worked like Thresh lantern a bit, where there was even a small window of delay where it was absolutely irrelevant how far you got, and then after that delay, the chain would break outside of a certain range. 675 Units, down from the current 965 would be fair. The actual range on the Chain skill shot can remain 865, even go up ten to 875 just to make it a nice even number, and after .5 seconds, if leblanc is not within that 675 range, the chain separates. In this way, forcing out the W can be meaningful, because Leblanc either must hit the chain without W-ing in, or has to accept that if she does W in, she has to not W out, or else she won't get the chain. That feels like a fair dynamic, which rewards skill, decision making, and create flexibility in the champion
: This isn't the way to go - having LB max Q makes her damage unavoidable and makes her strong when just poking with Q and not proccing the mark. This is what LB did during the rework and it is way more toxic than having it on W. W can be dodged and you can punish her when she jumps in if you're quick and can predict it.
No, you can't punish her, because the chain is unmissable, so unless you have another champion to instantly blow her up (and I do mean instantly) she can W back out, and her chain is STILL in range, meaning you're never going to catch her.
iDarkWind (EUW)
: In my opinion they should change how her kit works in general. Her W is her main source of damage, mobility and waveclear, there's no point in maxing anything else, wich means that her W will have low cooldown since the early game, because she'll max it first for the reasons I meantioned. So in my opinion, Riot should look for a way to make LB players decide if they want more single target burst or mobility and waveclear, and by saying this I mean finding a way to make maxing Q a good idea, wich would help a lot LB enemies to deal with her, since she wouldn't get so much CD on her mobility spell until the mid game. Just my opinion, and I am not even sure if that would fix her at all, but it's a start.
Its just shouldn't gain CDR with levels, theres already so much free fucking CDR in the burst mage items, so fuck me I guess if I'm a tank or support and I want to blow the leblancs abilities so my ADC can fight
: How can you look at Karma for an example, and then not also look at another major difference? Karma's is click and point, so the only counterplay is to get out of range. Leblanc's is a skillshot, so the counterplay is to dodge it. If it had both Karma's counterplay and her own, than I'd argue that you've given it *too much* counterplay, to the point that it's useless. That's not even considering the fact that her chain is designed around her ability to W back. Nerfing her chain length literally just breaks her kit in and of itself, for anytime she needs to W back, boom chain broken.
If you W into point blank, you can't miss it. If you're within leblancs auto range, the chain area takes up 20 degrees. When you engage on the leblanc, and you're in melee with her, chain takes up 45 degrees. She easily gets into melee range with W, hits the chain, because its unmissable at point blank, and then Ws back out of range, then walks until the chain procs, and the R Ws again with a Q in there somewhere and you're just dead and theres nothing to do.
: LeBlanc needs her escapes nerfed, not damage
I was coming to make a post about exactly this. I play support, and the worst feeling is baiting in or catching out the leblanc. I land a hook or a stun or something and she Ws away. But not only does she escape, it means, that I just wasted my cooldowns, because I won't have them to peel my Carry, and it doesn't matter that I forced out W or Chain, because they're right back up.
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Azeranth

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