: Was expecting these to probably pop up eventually. I just posted a big comment on the thread on /r/leagueoflegends about her actually. I think this is a reasonable change and hopefully brings her back to a healthier level. Thanks for not nerfing her into the ground like she's been before.
> [{quoted}](name=Quinn and Velor,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=4d6kQETy,comment-id=003600000000,timestamp=2018-07-25T16:55:53.924+0000) > Thanks for not nerfing her into the ground like she's been before. To be fair, I don't think that's actually happened before. The two Quinn nerfs off the top of my head were shortly after her rework (took some damage off Q, increased some cooldowns, and reduced nearsight duration, IIRC) and when lethality was OP (60% AD off of an ult that's only used once per fight, with compensation buffs elsewhere). Quinn nerfs were never harsh nerfs, they were just combined with unfavorable meta changes that, together, always resulted in huge downward swings in her winrate (from ~55% to ~49%). In fact, the "unplayable Quinn" meme was at its highest during a period when Quinn was untouched for a series of patches, so I wouldn't accuse Riot of having previously (directly) nerfed her into the ground.
Elfezen (NA)
: It feels funny that one of the hottest girls that play League made a thread about sexualization
> [{quoted}](name=Elfezen,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=hEWbKOO9,comment-id=002b,timestamp=2018-04-07T17:30:20.343+0000) > > It feels funny that one of the hottest girls that play League made a thread about sexualization [wee woo wee woo](http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/196/255/chris-hansen-200x300.jpg)
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 9
A thought came to my mind when you mentioned Rageblade rush switching Adaptive stats to AP. What are your thoughts on two 0-cost starting items for forcing adaptive stats (one for AD, one for AP) regardless of bonus AD/AP?
: Edited to add the following updates for (R) Behind Enemy Lines * Fixed a bug causing Behind Enemy Lines to immediately end when used while attacking a turret * Fixed a bug that would cause movement orders to be removed or ignored while casting Behind Enemy Lines * Returning to the fountain now automatically casts Behind Enemy Lines if it has been learned
Just wondering, does this mean that if you back with low mana and the intent to teleport immediately into combat, it'll take longer to recover to full mana before leaving base? EDIT: Ignore this, just remembered cancelling ult mid-channel refunds the mana.
: Actually, I just double checked in the training Rift against dummies and Runaan's extra bolts do NOT activate Harrier marks. Don't know if this is a bug. That's why I don't run it most of the time, because I'll kill the minions that have the mark without getting the buff. Static Shiv works so much better for Quinn's split pushing because of this.
I interpreted Xenogenic's reply to mean that it works in the environment they're testing in, and we'll by able to try it out if/when these changes go into PBE.
: Yes, absolutely. Overall, we are looking to increase her win/loss but not by much.
I'm wondering if Harrier damage will be balance-able with the QoL changes to her combo coming out of ultimate. I'm sure most people would prefer the Harrier QoL change to go through at the cost of Harrier damage (although I personally like the current "charge time" mechanic), because I've heard a lot of people asking for it over the years. Maybe it'll be fine with no number changes on Harrier damage. But if that's not the case, for the sake of those "most people", I hope some creativity is put into tweaking the numbers before the Harrier QoL change is written off completely. There are so many ways to tweak the damage's scaling and power curve--aside from just increasing or decreasing its cooldown: we can make it scale off of an item stat like critical strike chance or attack speed so full Lethality Quinn isn't too oppressive; we can have it scale off an ability's rank so its power curve is similar to Gangplank barrels; we can make enemies take increasingly higher damage from successive Harrier procs to add more levers distinguishing Assassin Quinn from ranged DPS Carry Quinn. (As you can tell, I might be slightly biased based on my playstyle.) TL;DR I think it's wonderful that the relevant teams have identified a major pain point that many Quinn players have, and I hope that it goes through, despite my (probably unfounded) fears of growing pains during implementation.
: Nerfing Quinn's early game - her single true strong point - is not the way to approach this IMO. I feel like there are better ways to mess with her power spikes. The ult changes, however, are BEAUTIFUL. I'm really happy with this and expect most of my fellow jaded Quinn appreciators to feel the same way. Crazy idea time: The only thing that needs to be done now is to switch it - _visually only_ - from Valor carrying Quinn, back to Valor. Just looks less clunky that way. She'd need a new model/texture for Heartseeker Valor, but the files for Val's animations are still in the game, as are - I assume - Valor's textures and models for all her other skins.
I would have to disagree about power spikes. Not only does Quinn have pretty high win-rate in long games according to most champion data websites, but I also think you're also think you're discrediting how strong the Harrier change will be if it goes through. Quinn's team-fighting and DPSing will become a lot more fluid, similar to Lucian even, so Quinn will have a much easier time scaling into mid-game compared to on live.
: Quinn Changes Coming Soon - Strike from the Sky!
Gonna edit this with a full response later, but quick question: Do Runaan's Hurricane secondary bolts proc Harrier marks? If not, can they (now that mid-air autos will)?
Lárxene (NA)
: "this early in the season" .. why would anyone continue playing a champion so laughably weak?? even her mains/One tricks with hundreds of games in prior seasons barely play her now
I hope Riot can produce some stats to shut guys like you up. All you people do is repeat the same narrative without citing any evidence to support it. Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe Quinn OTPs aren't and never were the only players still playing Quinn? That maybe the players still playing her are just really bad at drafting team comps, and the only reason her play rate l was higher before this meta was because competent (non-Quinn-main) players would pick her as a counter pick in certain ranged vs. bruiser match-ups, and that the issue here isn't that Quinn got worse, but bruisers did? All the stats say is that people don't play Quinn. None of it says that the majority of these 50% or 49% win-rate players are Quinn mains.
Roigaar (EUW)
: Hey, Meddler. I really dislike having to do this because I think these types of threads often get derailed by tone-deaf "buff my champ when?" posts, but I feel like this topic has gone completely under the radar. You guys have spent the last couple of months trying to address the state of toplane by adjusting runes, champions (those that seem[ed] to be struggling, like bruisers, as well as those that seemed to be unduly strong, like lane bullies drawing too much power from runes). None of those discussions/changes have taken Quinn into account. Quinn is the type of champion that you would expect to come up often since she's been typically considered one that bruisers in particular seem to have a hard time going against, and it should have been an alarm to you that she is *utterly absent* from the string of complaint posts that have appeared here and in other forums about the state of toplane. I invite you to control + F Quinn in the most vitriolic posts about toplane balance (you know the ones I'm talking about), or watch the high-elo community videos like Wicked's referenced tierlists, and you'll see what I mean. To summarize the issue: Quinn's playrate has been falling dramatically over the weeks since preseason, to a point where she's beginning to disappear from data gathering sites, and instead of seeing winrate increases that usually happen when only players with 50+ games play a champion, her winrate has gone down by 3-4% according to most sources. Quinn is struggling. She has received indirect nerfs in almost every patch since preseason hit, the most egregious being lethality values going down across the board when the AD assassins and casters seemed out of line, but has also suffered from nerfs to almost every major rune she can viably spec into, including Press the Attack, Celerity, Eyeball Collection, Sudden Impact, Coup the Grace and Triumph repeatedly. This period was supposed to evaluate where champions landed in terms of power level after preseason. Despite being a niche champion, Quinn previously appeared to be appropriately tuned considering her play rate, winrates. As you balance the things around her, that is no longer the case, but she is absent from the conversation. Her stats as a niche champion should be cause for alarm. Her situation has deteriorated immensely in the span of two months, she was significantly healthier on 7.22. And we would understand some apprehension: Quinn has historically been a champion that tends to cause frustrations in toplane, but that is simply a nonissue given her current power level. Moreover, there are plenty of parts in her kit where power can be altered not to contribute to alienating melee champions, such as W’s and R’s many levers. I can't stress this enough. Her playrate has **plummeted**, reaching sub 1% levels, only behind Volibear and Mordekaiser. Her winrate has dropped several points even though mains make up for the majority of her appearances. You guys continue to nerf tools she relies in, and in the current toplane discussion where she would normally get flak, she has been conspicuously absent because she is irrelevant in this state. This situation feels **wrong** and we are worried she will be held in this state indefinitely. Can we get you guys to at least comment on this situation?
I'd like to respond to the claims that: > ...only players with 50+ games play [Quinn] And: > Her winrate has dropped several points even though mains make up for the majority of her appearances. Can you link a source or screenshot of these statistics? Specifically that mains (however you define that) have been and are still the majority of players who pick Quinn. Because right now (this early in the season), all the stats I've found show that most Quinn players are in the lowest bracket of 1-50 games played. Even Janna, a commonly picked champion, has a higher percentage of players in the second bracket than Quinn.
: If it's the Attack based path why does it offer Tenacity? That would fit better in the Tank/Defense Path. Maybe change it with Crit or AD? Then we enable the 3 main choices (DPS, Sustain, Burst) for ADC's. Is this also the "main" Path for Assassins? Haven't really seen Pen/Lethality related runes or some cool minigame with a Kill as reward.
Assassins will probably take Domination.
Octavia (EUW)
: [Gameplay] (Updated) Quinn movement bug - right click then ult sends you back to original place
It's probably related to the QoL change that prevents you from immediately dismounting after ult when you click on a minion in auto attack range before pressing R (assuming that QoL change has been implemented). I think the goal of the change was to cancel all pre-channel commands (so an easy work-around for this bug is to input the attack/move command once the channel starts). ((Because apparently, it was too difficult to keep pre-channel commands while also replacing them with mid-channel commands.)) (((Still doesn't explain why, with the steps you gave, Quinn moves forwards and backwards instead of just standing still.)))
: Those melee champions actually struggle a lot more with nearsight than you might think. Once nearsighted, they don't even know which way to run to get near enough to Quinn to counter it. You can't just compare champions like that. Twisted Fate has lower sustained damage than Quinn **by far**
I don't think not knowing "which way to run" would be a problem if Quinn were immobile. Which means that the main issue is not that nearsight lasts too long, or that it can be used too frequently, but that W gives ludicrous movement speed and E alone completely counters many a melee's ability to close the gap. But let's assume the problem is in nearsight. Then why nerf Quinn in a way that hurts her ability to fight ranged casters more than it hurts her ability to fight melees (while barely reducing the overall annoyance and frustration of dealing with Quinn) instead of nerfing nearsight itself? Anything from making it show a footprint trail within the region like Ekko's ultimate, or show images of units outside the region like upgraded Sweeper/Reksai W, or reveal an attacking unit to its target like bush stealth or Akali W stealth. There are so many ways to fix Quinn, and I just don't see how nerfing Quinn in this way provides a noticeable improvement in the health of the game. If this line of progression is continued, won't it reach its goal only when Quinn is reduced to a top-only early-game lane bully, like before the rework?
: Patch Chat with Playtest - Comet Dragon
How will pushing Quinn out of midlane without nerfing her ability to outmaneuver melees going to make her a less popular or less dominant in top lane?


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