Ironhold (EUNE)
: Well that would be true if she wasn't a copy from a pre-existing concept. And since it's already been done and Riot's drawn inspiration(to put it mildly)from this, she can't really deviate from this archetype. Would she be a shapeshifter for example, I can see your argument having fundations. But her source material is a japanese fox goddess/demon that's a slut who uses her sexuality to abduct men and eat them, and she pretty much does the same while being a tad more innocent instead of gritty and brunt, since you know this game is PEGI12 after all. You need to remember though, her design is also ment to appease to a cetain demographic; notice how many players joke about her being waifu and stuff. You don't see that with Illaoi, she instead appeases to muscular "man-handling" women fetishists. Kalista doesn't really appease to anyone sexualy, her thematic has a different deviation. Jinx is the scareoused thingy; stick your dick in crazy and stuff. There are also many archetypes that appease to female demographics as well. But I'm too sleepy to go into further detail. Just my 2 cents on this.
WOW! Umm not sure if I wanna unpack this. So [NOPE!](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/70/63/00/70630053e48866533c33cab4bd3ec36b.jpg) I wasn't saying to not have it be a attractive or sexy design, just not voluptuous Brazilian supermodel sexy. Since Ahri was release for the Korean LoL release and is based on a Kumiho going Kpop star sexy and more foxlike, in respect of the lore, would be more appropriate. Thus smaller, leaner, and lithe, with more angular shapes in the face and eyes.
: > [{quoted}](name=Azur0Ronin,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=PErzTR0i,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-12-09T01:22:25.786+0000) > > I meant something official Its official as you can get it right now. Also its a great way to get to all those links that you cry about not being easily accessed.
wasn't really crying, was just giving an honest critique since the story team has been working rather hard on these new fiction pieces. Figured I'd ask if they had any plans.
Ironhold (EUNE)
: She also uses her sexuality to lure men and kill them.
I'm talking about her physical design being a fox made "human." I could jump into a whole _art design female body variance_ post that would largely go unread and such so I'll leave it at that.
: You already have a crude version of it, its called the wiki.
Rioter Comments
: is it possible that people who where very readily awaiting this statue to purchase the original version as of now? or are they all in a bunker somewhere underground thousands of miles away or something like that? i would definately buy it as it was even if it was $150 or however much they were planning on selling her for
: Mixed feelings on this one, as I didn't even know some in the community had issue with the design. I thought it looked awesome and capture the cinematic Ahri really well. The critique posted here is fair though. I'm glad you guys are wanting to reevaluate the statue and come back better, but this is disappointing as I had planned it for a Christmas gift. :( Gotta start looking all over again.
BUT I SWEAR TO GOD RIOT IF YOU TURN THIS STATUE INTO A SEXY VOLUPTUOUS SUPERMODEL VERSION OF AHRI, you will have lost my money. She's a fox, damn it! Lithe, lean, and swift please!
Bradmore (NA)
: Why we're not releasing the Ahri Statue
Mixed feelings on this one, as I didn't even know some in the community had issue with the design. I thought it looked awesome and capture the cinematic Ahri really well. The critique posted here is fair though. I'm glad you guys are wanting to reevaluate the statue and come back better, but this is disappointing as I had planned it for a Christmas gift. :( Gotta start looking all over again.
: **"Boards don't hit back."** -Bruce Lee, _Enter the Dragon_ While WindScorpion does have a valid point that practice is required for mastery, implementing a new sandbox mode is definitely not needed. First off, I had thought the Co-Op "bots" mode was the sandbox that people would use for practice. Sure, bots can be predictable and insanely mechanically precise ("Oh %$#@! It's Annie Bot!"), it's a good way to practice last hitting, timing combos, freezing/unfreezing lanes, and jungle paths. If that is still too much for some players, then custom games can be setup if you just want to practice the more fundamental skills, such as last hitting and jungle clearing, before going semi-live in co-op. And once a player feels that her skills have surpassed those of Intermediate Bots, then she should continue to practice in live games against real people, where an opposing player with the same goals need to be considered. And that is where true mastery needs to be developed and attained. Each game, win or loss, should be an opportunity to learn more about the game ,from Bronze 5 up to the professional scene. A new sandbox mode does not need to be made, nor should it be made, if it is to cater to those players who cannot even use a modicum of ingenuity to use custom games and co-op games as their own sandbox for training tools and developing the fundamentals.
Thank you SpiderTeo There's no replacement for the real thing. The wisdom of Bruce lee is spot on. I'm happy Riot isn't going to waste resources on a sandbox mode and look forward to what else they'll come up with to address the concerns.
Lugg (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Azur0Ronin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sJtKT1sI,comment-id=00020000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-06T21:04:35.627+0000) > > I'm glad I gave you a chuckle. I guess I didn't see the grand survey of the League community, could you source please? I guess you don't read the forums much. It's pretty obvious the community thinks he's OP. > My point was that every champion is "strong" on release because the player base has yet to learn how to deal with them. So first impressions aren't the best metric. Would you consider {{champion:238}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:5}} too be broken because they may have invulnerability, healing, shields, mobility, damage, or utility? Or is there a idea on how to counter such champions. Yes Ekko could use some number adjustments, I make mention to this in another comment, but he and Kalista aren't broken simply because people don't know how to respond to him or rather don't want to learn. I'm pretty sure EVERYONE will agree Bard wasn't strong on release. Ekko has ALL of those abilities, the other champs don't even have half of them. You have to realize that players do have to learn to counter new champions, BUT players will get better playing the new champion with practice. So the way a champion plays on release is a pretty good indicator whether they are OP or not. > I guess you also didn't play with Urgot before his mega nerf that put him into his "weakened" state, because his another example of the nerfing of older far more broken champions like urgot, twitch, evelynn. Should League only have kits that do 5 things, and boil everything down to a plainly simple design? Go play Stife and tell me how much fun you have? Plain kits lead to stale gameplay. I did play some Urgot before they buff. I thought he was a pretty decent champion. He was a lane bully but fell off late. Kits can be diverse, but don't give 1 champion EVERYTHING. That's just common sense. Simple kits can be fun too. WTF is Stife? > So ekko can't be countered because he has a 2 second shield on a 14 second cdr at max rank with no cdr, 8ish seconds with 40%? Or heal 200 +40%ish of the damage that was dealt to him over the last four seconds. if ekko has 2600 health and takes 2000 damage then ults, he goes from 600 to 1600 which yes is very strong but it's not unlike {{champion:238}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:76}} healing themselves with AA's or spells over time. That's also ignoring mortal wounds applied by ignite and champion. Yes he has tricks but every champion has tricks. It's why their fun. 1v1, you can deal with Ekko easier. The problem is teamfights where he is an absolute monster. His kit gives insane zoning that keeps the other team from doing anything to win the teamfight. If you haven't experienced this yet, you will be DEMANDING nerfs to Ekko once you do. > Question for ya, which has more presence? > A ability that deals 5000 damage instantly, or an ability that deals 500 damage each second for 10 seconds? The instant ability. It is a guaranteed 5k damage. When you have the DoT, the target can cleanse, heal, get a shield from a teammate, etc. so you don't get the full damage.
Forums are a bad measure of balance, as there's no metrics or data to make any real arguments. Forums do give a great sense in how something is perceived, which can be useful in understanding players perspective. Bard was and is very strong in what he does, which sadly is undervalued. Each of those champions gets most of those either built in or itemization {{champion:238}} invulnerability from time on ult, healing from itemization, mobility has both dash and teleport, damage, and minor utility in slow, and damage amp ult. {{champion:11}} invulnerability from Q, Healing from itemization and W, mobility in Q and Ult, plus a great deal of damage {{champion:114}} Invulnerability from ult, AA block, healing from itemization and passive, mobility from Q, E, and Ult, plus damage {{champion:64}} Everything but invulnerability {{champion:5}} Gives up invulnerability and shields for additional utility, and has mobility, healing, and damage. Release is a terrible time to start forming an opinion as their are far too many variables. Balancing and game design are sciences plus art but they follow the same scientific ideas about experiments and conclusions. Simple kits can be fun, {{champion:62}} is one of my favorite champions and he has a very simple kit. Yet more complex kits offer more for players to learn and improve upon, they take a far greater amount of practice to gain any real kind of mastery. Urgot is a champion that deserves the full twitch/Evelynn rebuild, as he has some problems. Strife is a newer MOBA that's trying for a less stressful experience and so uses far simpler kits on most of it's champions. Not a bad game if that's what your looking for but each ability is very linear. Ekko is a great deal stronger 1v1 they versus a group, he can zone individuals better then a group as the cooldown on his W is so long. He actually should save is W for after the fight begins, but Everything that counters a {{champion:11}} or {{champion:114}} counters Ekko. I've been playing Him a great deal and I've been in both really good situations and really bad ones where a enemy team caught me out and there was nothing I could do before I was dead. I haven't felt he could handle everything every time, and he does need to play mind games on more cunning opponents. He also doesn't deal with opponents with high burst on low cooldowns well as they can force his ult simply to stay in the fight without him having done anything yet. It's a trick question, as even without all those thing you mentioned, you would probably picked the instant ability.Instant translates for most people as power or extremes in game design, even if it's not that powerful or is equally strong to that of another non-instant ability. This is a trap of perception, and largely plays into how and why people view things as overpower or too strong. Yes Ekko does a lot of things instantly and yes he could use adjustment, in his costs and lower base damages which are both on the pbe, but he's in no way broken or overloaded. That's purely a trap in his perception. It's also obvious that this is largely going no where, I put this post up as a thank you to Riot as I appreciate that the game has gotten more complicated and interesting. I don't mind discussing this but I'm also willing to agree we both disagree on the subject matter and leave it at that. :)
Lugg (NA)
: The pros and 90% of the regular gaming community agree he is broken. But I guess we are all wrong. Urgot was fairly weak until his last buff. Then he became viable. Ekko does not have the same weaknesses as other melee assassins. He is not squishy at all due to his shield and heal. CC doesn't work because he can easily ult out or use his other mobility tools and slows to escape. If you don't think Ekko can 100-0 someone, you need to watch some videos of him doing it regularly. You actually made me laugh when you said he drops off late game. Kalista requires a lot of practice, but she is still very hard to catch, even with the nerfs. You don't even have to go back past this season to have seen broken OP champions. Warwick at the beginning of this season was an auto win. It just amazes me that champions that are CLEARLY broken make it thru the PBE.
I'm glad I gave you a chuckle. I guess I didn't see the grand survey of the League community, could you source please? My point was that every champion is "strong" on release because the player base has yet to learn how to deal with them. So first impressions aren't the best metric. Would you consider {{champion:238}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:5}} too be broken because they may have invulnerability, healing, shields, mobility, damage, or utility? Or is there a idea on how to counter such champions. Yes Ekko could use some number adjustments, I make mention to this in another comment, but he and Kalista aren't broken simply because people don't know how to respond to him or rather don't want to learn. I guess you also didn't play with Urgot before his mega nerf that put him into his "weakened" state, because his another example of the nerfing of older far more broken champions like urgot, twitch, evelynn. Should League only have kits that do 5 things, and boil everything down to a plainly simple design? Go play Stife and tell me how much fun you have? Plain kits lead to stale gameplay. So ekko can't be countered because he has a 2 second shield on a 14 second cdr at max rank with no cdr, 8ish seconds with 40%? Or heal 200 +40%ish of the damage that was dealt to him over the last four seconds. if ekko has 2600 health and takes 2000 damage then ults, he goes from 600 to 1600 which yes is very strong but it's not unlike {{champion:238}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:76}} healing themselves with AA's or spells over time. That's also ignoring mortal wounds applied by ignite and champion. Yes he has tricks but every champion has tricks. It's why their fun. Question for ya, which has more presence? A ability that deals 5000 damage instantly, or an ability that deals 500 damage each second for 10 seconds?
Nilok (NA)
: I'm not sure if Kalista has healthy counter play. Her only counter play is jump on her and use hard CC, less then what counters other marksman. I also understand that jumping everytime can be tricky, but that is no excuse for being able to dash constantly. If slows affected her jump distance, she would be fine-ish then.
Attack speed debuffs effect Kalista mobility in ways no other marksman is affected. Since she's built around stacking spears it also severally cuts her damage aswell, ya she can hop but she can't stutter like other marksman so she has to be on top of her positioning more so then other marksman. This is in addition to her kit being half utility and her being reliant on a partner.
Lugg (NA)
: Ekko is completely broken. The Koreans (who are the experts at LoL) said that he has all the benefits of being an assassin and none of the drawbacks. In other words. no significant counterplay. I called that just from watching the champion spotlight and I have been proved 100% right. Kalista was broken the moment she was released. Once again, Riot is making these complicated champs that are almost impossible to balance. I have no problem with her mobility per say, it's just that the higher your mobility, the safer you are. So her damage needs to be nerfed as a balance. They need to have a hard cap on her rend. Something like 5 stacks. That would make her much more balanced and way less toxic.
So Ekko is broken because the pros say he is? That's the basis for your argument? The pros said Urgot was garbage till Genja proved them otherwise. That's in addition to the countless other champions who were "trash tier." They said mage supports bottom were garbage too, and we see that wasn't true. Their track record as analyst isn't the greatest. They often only think about things in terms their use to and many aren't willing to deviate from their norm. Their great players no doubt, but their often bad at math and bad at thinking outside the box. Ekko has all the same weaknesses a melee assassin has. He's squishy, melee, and hugely susceptible to CC, and falls off late game. Catch a Ekko out in a team fight and he's probably toast. Yes he has a big bag of tricks but non of them let him 100%->0% someone with a considerable amount of work and planning which requires you to trick your opponent, thus counterplay. Kalista has high mobility but it requires an AA to do such thus slowing her AS slows her mobility, that's in addition to the base mechanic of her hops being challenging to pull off through out the game. A hard cap on her rend would be unjustified as the stacks don't do anything themselves and a Kalista has to stack them 5+ to get any real damage. She's far form easy to pull off correctly and requires practice and experience. Ya both of them are high skill caps to pull off their really cool plays and what not but being satisfying to play at higher experience levels isn't a sign of poor design or brokenness. Both are also totally adjustable from a numbers perceptive more so then older champions as Riot can tune somethings up or down without damaging the kit and playstyle. Kalista lost her backward jump bonus now she's easy to catch but her damage if still satisfying to pull off correctly. Ekko has some number adjustments up on the PBE that target his damage and costs, but don't break the overall playstyle. I'm curious how long you've been playing, and if you have any experience with release day xin zhao, pre season twitch and evelynn, or launch malady and locket? I feel these stand as true examples of broken champions and items and demonstrates what League without counterplay was REALLY like.
Lugg (NA)
: Overpowered is that some ability or abilites is/are too powerful. Overloaded means they have too much in their kit that reduces counterplay. A champion can be OP and not Overloaded, but most overloaded champs are OP. I hope that makes sense.
It does make sense but I was referring to the subjective nature of the terms. Regardless in respect to {{champion:245}} and{{champion:429}} I think they both have a healthy degree of counter play. Firstly they televise everything, so as to have no surprises. Next while they both have abilities reliant on a external factors(Ekko his positioning, Kalista her support) and both have to work for their damage in similar ways. Both rely on stacks for their damage and pay a price for their utility. Both can be countered in both build and play style, and neither has a "press bottom win game." Ya their both different and require you to think differently but that's less of a lack of counter play and more a symptom of the stale metagame. Everything that counters ap assassins counters{{champion:245}} , and everything that counters marksman counters {{champion:429}} .
: Agreed, more in depth kits and skill shots add counter play and make for more exciting games.
It's generally more fun too knowing you pulled off a cool play, or a daring escape because of your own skill and knowledge with a champion versus numbers carrying you all the way. :)
: I don't think Ekko's W is overloaded, because the stun and shield durations were tuned such that the shield would be down by the time anyone got out of the stun, making it incredibly difficult for him to actually use both effects at the same time. Not saying he doesn't need nerfing;I think the increased mana cost on his W and the base ms nerfs are pretty justified. I just think his W is probably one of his best-designed spells. I do agree with the thread as a whole, though. Just because Riot isn't releasing all of these champions in a perfectly balanced state doesn't mean they're inherently unbalanceable, as some people think. Much easier to balance effectively than, say, Xin Zhao, or a lot of the other largely point-and-click-to-win older designs.
Agreed, some damage numbers or costs could be adjusted. You pointed out something many aren't paying much mind to about his W. The shield lets you deal with burst or dots that you saw coming and the stun helps in control both offensively and defensively, but you'll rarely get full benefit out of both. It's funny how you mention Xin Zhao because he was one of the worst released champions ever in how strong he was mainly do to the fact League back then had a more math based design. Yet now after his rework and redesign he's a pretty Healthy version of older League.
Lugg (NA)
: Ekko, is about as horrible a design as humanly possible. WAY overloaded. Needs COMPLETE rework. Ashe, love the rework, just needs a minor tweak and she is golden. Bard, was weak on release, but has a fun and balanced kit now. Rek'Sai, broken when released and still too OP now. Kalista, see Ekko above. Sion, great rework. Maybe does a bit too much damage for how tanky he is. Azir, has been broken since release. Either too OP or too UP. Way too many bugs in his play. Gnar, OP on release and still very strong now. Braum, OP on release, balanced now. Vel'Koz, great job. Best champion released in list. Yasou, horribly broken at release and still needs rework. Jinx, nice kit. Was a bit OP, but is in a pretty good spot now. Lucian, same as Jinx.
Define OP and overloaded please. I enjoy talking design, but we need a baseline for such a conversation and such terms are often used to generalize. :)
: +1. Sick and tired of those whiners spamming QQ threads whenever they got rekt by X champ.
Too true {{champion:64}} has been in the game since 2011, and when Riot wanted to tone down his I'M GOOD AT EVERYTHING, many in the community freaked out saying "YOUR KILLING WHAT I LOVE ABOUT LEE SIN!!!" But {{champion:245}}'s W is over loaded for being strong utility. And {{champion:432}} was considered to be trash tier because he doesn't do crazy amounts of damage. .... Something doesn't seem right here.
: Well with the exception of {{champion:266}} those are all the champs that have come out since I started playing, and I have to say I agree with you while people may not like the mobility creep and loaded kits of these champions, it does make for a more interesting game experience.
Thanks :) I've been playing since 2009, and while I look on those days fondly, if Riot had just kept doing things the way they did back then the game would not be a hit. The designs were very similar to the original DOTA and the only reason DOTA stays afloat is because of it's fervent fan base. Teamfights now play out like some crazy Fighting game free for all, instead of a MATH the RTS. Loading kits with unique offerings, giving champions creative mobility options, and converting things to skills shots I feel is a strong design decision as it makes the game generally more interesting and give players more chances to shine.
Rioter Comments
: Champion Update: Tristana
Nice job guys, really love the new look. I like that yordles are becoming more of their own unique race rather then just furry halflings. Trist has never looked so spiffy or spunky for that matter. New 'E' is exciting as it makes Trist play more dangerously for solid rewards. :) Bravo guys!
: My thoughts on the whole "Dawngate" incident and lore.
Dawngate has some really good lore and story that's totally worth saving. :) #MOBAsUnited http://www.dawngate.com/chronicles/prologue/1/ http://www.reddit.com/r/dawngate/comments/2lq49s/an_open_letter_to_ea_executives/
: @RIOT Today EA closed the Dawngate, Riot please be a pal to Waystone Games. PLEASE RIOT!
Riot you've been so gracious to the Dawngate Community, please lend us your support once more. We fight on to give Waystone a proper chance at success. Join us in uniting all the MOBA communities in a fight to keep the MOBA space a varied and diverse landscape. :) #MOBASUNITED http://www.reddit.com/r/dawngate/comments/2lq49s/an_open_letter_to_ea_executives/
: We like those guys a lot and respect their work - rest assured, we're always chatting with talented devs like them. Thx for raising visibility guys!
Thank you for caring enough Tryndamere. Way back in the days I remember the 11th hour decisions for Riot, when the news about Dawngate dropped I could only think too go to you guys. Thank you for this Tryndamere.
: That does not make then good at developing a game... Nor does it mean the deserve a job a Riot.
Waystone developed and patch with good strong sensibility, they even went to the point of breaking done MOBA's as a genre. I'd encourage you take a look at the game before being hyper judgmental :). Some of them came from Riot or were interns there. Trying to not be bitter, I apologizes if it comes off like that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuSTVdKEnVA
: since you probably do not know the dawn gate devs, you really should not say anything about how great or bad they are.
I know them as far as how the interacted with the community in the forums, streams, and reddit. It was always very positive, very open. They would pop on to a community podcast and talk directly to the community. They started a streamer support system and tried very hard to fostered a real sense of community. It was very similar to how Riot is.
: i never thought id feel this sad about a game shutting down...please :/ save dawngate
It's just a video game but, I've been trying not to cry since the announcement.
Centuros (NA)
: RIP Chronicles, yet another story gone forever.
And we just got that awesome Emperor of Masks opening. :( It's too young to die.
  Rioter Comments
: Redesign Diana. BUT! With no numbers!
Challenge accepted! Be back in a day :)
: Gnar Reveal
Ranged fighter that transforms into a melee tank, cool concept and gameplay. Plus he's adorable :D. P.s. Really liking these new champion reveals, concise and very thoughtful.

Azur0Ronin

Level 30 (NA)
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