koshkyra (NA)
: Why does Zed have better poke and waveclear than 90% of mages
: Dr.Mundo The Mad man of Zaun
You know Dr. Mundo? Dr. Gundo
Loser7J (EUNE)
: Summoner(<removed by moderation>)Region:EUNE Main champ Zed
Hey Loser7J, Just wanted to let you know I removed the Summoner name from the OP. I understand you had a negative experience, but naming and shaming isn't allowed on the boards. If you'd like to check out the universal rules, you can do so here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/4LgZ2EwM-universal-rules If you'd like to reach out to the mod team about this, I'd encourage you to check out the moderation discord over here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/qVlculPP-boards-moderation-discord Finally, given the situation, I think you'd be best served by a support ticket, which you can create over at support.riotgames.com. Best, Azure
: How is this name allowed in game?
Hey there, Just wanted to let you know that I've edited the OP to remove the summoner name. Naming and shaming isn't something we tolerate on the boards (even if the name is a little off-color). You may want to use the in-game report function, or submit a support ticket, especially if this person was also toxic in-game. If you'd like to reach out to the mod team about this, feel free to do so here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/qVlculPP-boards-moderation-discord Best, Azure
DobySir (NA)
: Platinum's shouldn't play vs Silvers in ranked games.
Good news is you're one of the winningest silvers, then. Bad news is yeah, you'll go up against that. IMO if your mmr dictates you should be playing with golds/plats, you should be gold/plat. I mean I go up against diamonds in gold now which doesn't feel kosher.
: This isn't a very effective petition. You can't give a meaningful vote.
> [{quoted}](name=ZackTheWaffleMan,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=m7jQnUL0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-16T14:57:59.264+0000) > > This isn&#x27;t a very effective petition. You can&#x27;t give a meaningful vote. yo he said 'Omae wa mou shindeiru' - nani is always the answer
: ATTENTION ALL SHEN MAINS! If you do this, there may still be hope!
: Wait so...
Flash, heal, etc, are just laws of physics, or traits of the world. Kinda like cracking my knuckles, a champ can blink a short distance, but they can't do it in rapid succession.
: pretty funny pregame chat
Hi Kazekage, I can appreciate the lulz, but naming and shaming isn't something we allow on the boards. For this reason, I've removed the Summoner names from the OP. For more information, or to refer to the universal rules, [click here. ](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/4LgZ2EwM-universal-rules) If you'd like to contact the mod team about this, feel free to do so at the [moderation discord. ](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/qVlculPP-boards-moderation-discord) Best, Azure
: 1. Why were you still hitting it after 500 health? 2. It works. Shut up. Light crimes take more time. They don't just get instant banned.
> [{quoted}](name=Bright Claws,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=db2NcFuw,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-05T17:31:40.914+0000) > > 1. Why were you still hitting it after 500 health? > 2. It works. Shut up. Light crimes take more time. They don&#x27;t just get instant banned. Please strive to keep things civil and respectful, there are more constructive ways to handle a disagreement.
Nirvøy (NA)
: @ Riot Why is things like Disco nunu not an instant a permaban?
Hi JustinLeeDotson! I understand that you're frustrated, but naming and shaming isn't something we allow on the boards. For this reason, I've removed the match history links in the OP, which had summoner names intact. For more information, or to learn more about the universal rules, [click here. ](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/4LgZ2EwM-universal-rules) If you'd like to contact the mod team about this, feel free to do so at the [moderation discord. ](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/qVlculPP-boards-moderation-discord) Best, Azure
: Defy the odds and perform the impossible
: Toxic player that will ban your pick in lobby!!
Hi Summonah12369! I know you're frustrated, but naming and shaming isn't something we allow on the boards. For this reason, I've removed the Summoner profile in the OP. For more information, or to refer to the universal rules, [click here. ](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/4LgZ2EwM-universal-rules) If you'd like to contact the mod team about this, feel free to do so at the [moderation discord. ](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/qVlculPP-boards-moderation-discord) Best, Azure
Sora Omo (NA)
: I BELIEVE we can improve the entire player base with this
I can appreciate wanting further clarity and a smoother transition from tutorial to play, but can we flesh this out a little more concretely? I play more top lane than anything else, and you're right, learning the melee into range matchup has a steep curve, but how could I learn more/develop outside of just playing games? I don't think bots are at the point yet where I could practice. Is 'advanced training' a gamemode? Videos? P2P coaching? How do you best emphasize farming? Warding? A side mission in which you need x gold by 15 minutes where champ kills count for nothing or something?
Keyru (NA)
: Boards Moderation Discord Verification
Keyru (NA)
: Boards Moderation Discord Verification
: First Objectives vs. Win Rate Visualization
Although neat (and it's always awesome to see someone take advantage of the API!), I think it's important to point out that correlation <> causation. Just as securing objectives shifts the tide of the game in your favor, so does winning a game enable you to easier secure first objectives.
: Stacks grow passively over time in this scenario? And did you mean 10% AD/AP? 16 = 2 * 8 = 2 * .10(80) Sounds like this frontloads a bit of damage - this would be a must-have on someone like Renekton or Riven. How do you feel about ranged champs? Does this apply to non-single target abilities? I really like this idea; the only thing I worry about is that it rewards high-damage builds, and ranged champs might abuse it.
wow using asterisks for a multiplication sign really screwed up the typing here.
: In my opinion, it's not necessarily a keystone problem; but rather an itemization cost/base stat adjustment problem. An example would be Darius, he can use a decent amount of keystone's. Fleet Footwork, Grasp, Aftershock, Phase Rush all work. I play mostly juggernauts {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:75}} and recently {{champion:48}}. Maybe more scaling health? Scaling AD? Lower the cost of cleaver, Titanic Hydra and steraks would help? This is just my opinion though
I love me some Darius, but Fleet Footwork feels the best so far on him, which is a travesty imo. Fervor felt great on him, but the damage on ad's means I don't even feel like I could adequately stack it anymore... Item builds on bruisers are real freakin expensive. Feels bad, man.
5050BS (NA)
: I would do this Every 4s you gain a stack max 20 stacks (so takes 80s to get to max stacks) AA a champion costs 2 stacks and adds 1% AD/AP damage per stack (so at lvl 1 ~16 damage (based off 80 AD) or ~60 damage based off 300 AD) Single target spell costs 1 stack and adds .5% AD/AP damage per stack Killing a Large Minion/Monster adds 4 stacks. Killing a Champion adds 8 stacks. So as you start attacking if gives good damage but as you keep attacking it gets lower. This way its gated and you have a window when you want to jump on someone but that window is small.
Stacks grow passively over time in this scenario? And did you mean 10% AD/AP? 16 = 2 * 8 = 2 * .10(80) Sounds like this frontloads a bit of damage - this would be a must-have on someone like Renekton or Riven. How do you feel about ranged champs? Does this apply to non-single target abilities? I really like this idea; the only thing I worry about is that it rewards high-damage builds, and ranged champs might abuse it.
: Heat of Battle Resolve Keystone While within 400 range of an enemy champion or epic monster, gain 0.8 - 8 AD or 1.3 - 13 AP (adaptive) and 1-10 Armor and Magic Resistance each second, up to a maximum of 8-80 AD or 13-130 AP (adaptive) and 10-100 Armor and Magic Resistance. These bonuses fall of each half second after being out of 400 range of an enemy champion or epic monster for 4 seconds. Compared to the old Fervor, this lets fighters gain stacks just by playing in close proximity to their opponent, rather than being focused specifically on trading blows with them. Since fighters are often lanebullies against tanks whose defenses are lacking in the early game, this plays into that even more so than the previous version while also solving the marksmen issue. Marksmen wanting to take advantage of the rune need to be playing in an unoptimal range and make themselves vulnerable to melee users of it. It also fits more nicely into the resolve path by granting defensive stats as well, something which both trinity/sterak's main users enjoy, and tanks wanting to try out an off-tank style can feel comfortable with.
I think there's something to be said for extended proximity granting bonuses, but we've got to be careful that we aren't buffing other classes with a keystone like this. Tanks (both 'disrupters' and 'wardens' as Riot puts it) would benefit pretty greatly from this. That, and scaling up to 100 armor/MR and/or 80 AP is pretty overtuned at first glance...
: Good questions, and I'm glad you are devil's advocating it, that helps to fine-tune the idea :) Maybe it would need a range limitation (not restriction) where it only works if the enemy is within 300-500 units of range. As for it being a useful tank keystone, I am not too concerned about that because tanks already have keystones that are more efficient for their intended purposes of initiating or peeling. That said I'll still address this later with some additional ideas. The proposed keystone would be more useful for a diver or a juggernaut because they tend to lack the resistances needed to last long in a fight, while tanks don't struggle with this too much and they can already build the tank version of the Stopwatch Upgrade if they need to survive burst. Tahm kench would definitely not be able to make use of the keystone I'm proposing. Because he already has an ability that does this, and either the ability or the keystone would consume the grey health, preventing him from using grey health twice to get two separate shields. As for making it more attractive for bruisers, it could be based on ability damage (including on-hit effects) rather than on auto-attacks. Or it could be limited like I suggested above by only working on enemies within a certain range. Feel free to add your own suggestions and we can discuss further. To boil the idea down to it's core bits: * Grey health would operate the same as Tahm kench's E. As you take damage you gain an equal amount of grey health. Doesn't count as actual health and if you run out of actual health you would die. Could be converted into some other form of health by meeting a set of conditions (options for which are discussed in the Triggers section). - It's already a tried and true mechanic and it offers a cool moment of activating it when you are about to die but have a large bar of grey health. - To distinguish it from Tahm Kench, we would just trigger it differently rather than putting it on an active, and we would not make it regenerate health like Tahm Kench's E does. * Trigger needs to be better for melee champions who for the most part tend to be beefier and less mobile (IE, not assassins). Possible triggers: - reaching a number of attacks stacked against a single or multiple enemies - attacks on enemies within x range (use range limiter to allow characters who fight closely to take better advantage of it. Could still work for ranged characters if they get dove onto and are fighting enemies who are right next to them. - damage taken or dealt compared to your max HP, similar to Sterak's Gauge if using damage taken, so probably better to base off damage dealt, although that does give assassins a possible way to use the keystone. - stacking when your max HP is at a certain ratio to your target's HP, this may be interesting by preventing it from working against tanks but working when you fight assassins, mages, and marksmen, making it more useful in situations when it might be needed while reducing cases of wasting the effect. * Actual effect could vary, depending on if we want purely grey-health to shield or if we want some kind of healing. Possible effects: - Conversion straight to a shield that could then last until out of combat or decay over time depending on what is most balanced. This is already used for Tahm Kench so we know there is precedent for it. - Conversion from grey health to immediate heals either cut to a % of the grey health or giving all the grey health back (leaning away from this because of how unfair it often feels when characters like Illaoi are almost killed but then they get most of their health back instantly because of an ultimate) - Accelerated health regeneration that drains grey health as the resource to fuel it.
It looks like this thread may not be getting much traction on the general boards, but I don't want the time and effort you took on this to go unnoticed :C The grey health mechanic on both Tahm and Rengar offers a unique take on damage mitigation, and I think the difference in those two shows how versatile it can be (one's a tank, one's an assassin). From a gameplay perspective, I do think you're right about the frustration factor - Tahm getting a nearly full hp shield feels pretty borderline. Again, it sounds like this would greatly help the laning phase where some bruisers have a notoriously bad time (poke/range), but I am a little afraid of, say, a Maokai feeling unkillable on it. I think the selling point on this keystone idea is the activation method - it's really making me think about the kind of gameplay and movement a bruiser may engage in that another type of champion would not. Bruisers are perhaps the only class of champs that want to dive you or be in your face; they do damage but they're also face-tanking. They don't rely on movement or distance to stay alive like assassins or mages might. What if your autos or single-target dropped a localized indicator/charge? Three(?) charges within a certain distance grants the keystone's bonus. For instance, Jax Q's over to a champ. On arrival, he does damage and drops a charge. He follows up with an auto, dropping another charge, and then resets for a second auto, dropping a third charge. Given that all three are in proximity, Jax gains a large heal from the gray health instead of a typical shield. Or a mini-steraks - absorbing some damage but rendering him beefier. This applies to any champ that hits you multiple times without relying on distance or mobility, and fits the bill for irelia, renek, jax, darius, etc.
: Some1 just tried to tell me that WWE was fake
You know, it's only somewhat a scripted event. My uncle worked as a promoter early on in WWE's inception, and would _still_ be surprised by some of the outcomes. Scripting would come later, but don't let that distract you from how in 1998, The Undertaker threw Mankind off Hell In A Cell, and plummeted 16 ft through an announcer’s table
Håppy (NA)
: That's not at all what I'm saying, but pull whatever answer you want I guess.
Sorry, I'm not trying to be combative, but a balanced keystone that caters to bruisers is impossible, is what I got out of it.
Håppy (NA)
: "Keep it from being exploitable by other classes" Impossible. Every rune can work with any class, but every rune has a specific class it caters to... ..except bruisers/fighters.
So the NA boards rage over toplane keystones is an exercise in futility?
: Hitting an enemy with an auto attack marks them to take 10 +20% ad +10% ap adaptive damage with the next spell you hit them with (3 second cooldown). Hitting an enemy with a spell marks them to take the same damage with the next auto attack you hit them with (3 second cooldown). Only one target may be marked at a time and the parts must be alternated. Spells that are applied on auto attacks are counted only as spells (Nasus Q, Ezreal Q, Jax W, etc.)
Sounds good on the bruisers with AA resets, but I shudder at the thought of casters that rely somewhat on autos (ekko, zed, talon)...
Dr Dog (NA)
: i would rather the speed be for melees only so it doesnt get abused by the ones that dont actually need it
Speed boosts on autos are pretty underrated - I don't see that called out very often but I think you're right, phage feels essential on the bruiser class. A rune that synergizes both with autos and phage would be great!
: ***
I feel like this is sort of the general opinion of the boards, but we're still a little nebulous here. What exactly does this mechanic look like? Just an ad bonus that stacks over AAs? I feel like this alone doesn't have the same impact as the new round of keystones post S8.
: As for ideas for keystones, how about something that lets you turn damage you take into grey health, and that heals it all (or maybe just part of it) back or turns it into a shield (like Tahm kench's E) if you manage to keep an enemy within your auto-attack range for long enough? _Edit - This was poorly explained, let me try again:_ 1. How it becomes grey health: Damage you take is converted to grey health, which begins to decay when out of combat. 2. Ways to trigger it: Auto-attacking (or damaging in general) the same enemy 3-5 times (number dependent on balancing), OR keeping the same enemy within range for a certain amount of time, etc. Could be triggered any number of ways. 3. Ways to consume it: It could heal you for a % of - or even all of - the grey health if you succeed, or it could convert all of your existing grey health into a shield that lasts as long as you are in combat (or that decays over time if needed for balance).
This is a pretty interesting idea, and would help bruisers who currently struggle against ranged/poke lanes for sure! That said, and a little bit of devil's advocate here: It sounds like this is a largely defensive rune, and doesn't do much in the way of offensive strength. I feel like the biggest contenders for a rune like this are tanks that rely on AAs, like Shen, or even Tahm Kench. Also, if it looked at AA range as a measure, would this be easier to proc on ranged champs?
Dr Dog (NA)
: obviously ferver would need bigger numbers and tweaking, hey maybe even a tiny speed boost for stacking it more to give more sticking power
If we keep the ramp-up and add something like a speedboost, how do we balance around ranged and melee champs? Is the 1 stack/2stack respectively enough? Would you be worried about ranged champs using this for better kiting?
: I like your inspiration rune idea, that's a really cool rune and it's one that I know I would make use of with a lot of my favorite bruisers. Although I do have a slight concern about it synergizing with Press the Attack and Electrocute a little bit too well.
Good point - although rendering the item melee-only would keep the synergistic boost away from ranged champs. Right now, I think press the attack is weak on bruisers because it's balanced around ranged users, but idk
Trestani (NA)
: fervor of battle
I'm just going to copypasta from above: > Fervor was pretty good, but it would be outclassed by existing keystones now that we're missing the support of the entire ferocity tree. What changes would you make to put it on par with Klepto or Grasp, both of which give trading utility and long-term scaling? What about mid-late game? Feels to me like teamfights are shorter than ever, how can a bruiser reliably spin up to fervor's potential in the current meta?
Dr Dog (NA)
: fever was literally the perfect one
Fervor was pretty good, but it would be outclassed by existing keystones now that we're missing the support of the entire ferocity tree. What changes would you make to put it on par with Klepto or Grasp, both of which give trading utility and long-term scaling? What about mid-late game? Feels to me like teamfights are shorter than ever, how can a bruiser reliably spin up to fervor's potential in the current meta?
Rioter Comments
: > I want to come back to the Noxus idea, though not necessarily the dwarf fortress Noxus idea :P Dammit - you have seen through the thinly veiled dream game. ;) (I love DF, but I wouldn't wish it on anyone.) > Speaking of, do you guys have a feel for what kinds of games League players play outside of League? There have definitely been surveys (and some of the readers here may have answered those surveys!) but I probably can't reveal what the results were. What I've been interested to see is whether or not this subset of self-selected players (players who A) read English, B) visit the Boards, C) read the Story, Art, and Sound sub-Board, D) can be bothered to write a comment, and E) happen to be reading on a Tuesday) are markedly different in their preferences from other player groups. I think we'd all agree this is a very unique group of players - so seeing similarities and differences in preferences is interesting to me, esp. as I feel like the peeps here are quite similar to me. (Being someone who is also A), B), C) D) and E).) > What about a game that strikes an LA Noire meets Star Wars: X-wing meets... Jedi Outcast? Pls bear with me That sounds randomly generated :) You have my attention. Sounds like a more episodic approach, would you say? A 'storyline' of missions can be released over time, and players can go in, body some fools with sweet swordplay, and have an impact on the outcome of the specific storyline, but maybe not the overarching game arc? Maybe a bit like the most recent Hitman where new missions were released individually and each was self contained, perhaps? Part of me finds this interesting (if I'm not misinterpreting your idea) in that it would be a move towards where TV has been going away from. By that, the style in popular TV seems to be moving (in this post-Netflix world) towards more 'myth' episodes, or indeed a 13-episode movie feel, rather than 'monster of the week' episodic procedurals that can be made forever. (For those unfamiliar with the terms, 'myth' vs. 'monster of the week' were popularized by the X-Files where you'd get a literal monster episode one week that didn't really have any bearing on the ongoing storyline, while another week you might get an episode that _only_ focused on Mulder, aliens, and the overarching big picture plot. Most detective or hospital shows are procedural - every episode a new crime or illness, and nothing really changes from episode to episode. Shows like Westworld or Game of Thrones are entirely 'myth' - with no formula to inject filler episodes that could be played anywhere in the series.) Game design? Well, in my case, you apply to jobs you're not qualified for, write postmortems of competing games that are well received, make your own games/levels for your portfolio, and get very fortunate 13 years ago. Most folks have a different story on how they got into it though :)
Haha - I'll admit I'm afraid to even try to decipher DF, mainly because I'm afraid I might like it :) And yes, that's right where I'm going with this! I had Hitman somewhat in mind in terms of ongoing, curated, published content with player engagement and freedom of choice in mind. Great to bring up a monster of the week outlook, too; League certainly has no lack of 'Monsters'. I think the idea of riding out on a mission and breaking out an intimate, crafted experience may best suit champ encounters, but I don't necessarily want to railroad the player into a setting over which they have no meaningful influence. Having an episodic focus somewhat sustains the evolving world/shared experience idea, in a 'remember that one mission/episode' sort of way. As in 'Remember that one time my sword went through Shen when I tried to fight him but then he came to bail me out against a bunch of OP Sprits just for balance's sake?' or 'Remember the beginning of the Shuriman invasion when we pulled Noxtoraa out of the ground?' If you look outside the scope of individual episodes, what do 'Seasons' look like? Is season 1 a Noxus campaign and season 2 is Piltover? So far as Runterra's lore is concerned, there's not really a singular myth to build... Hah, I'll keep that in mind, but I've certainly got a lot to learn :) I'm a little afraid of the gaming industry, mostly by virtue of how competitive the scene appears to be.
: (Holy comment lengths, Batman. Both of us.) So somewhere like Blizzard attempts to support multiple lifestyle games (I believe) by both A) trying to keep them distinct enough that the player-types aren't eating each other too much, and B) taking advantage of the ebb and flow of lifestyle games. I believe that a lifestyle game is played _hard_ for a certain length of time, and then is healthily put aside for a while. Some players then play something shorter and completely different - others move on to another lifestyle game - and yet others will return to a previous lifestyle game that they had burned out on. That's how I think it goes, anyway. It's possible that the play styles of a Hearthstone player is different enough from a WoW player, which is different enough from an Overwatch player (or a Starcraft player, HotS, etc.). At the very least, Hearthstone can be played at times when you can't be playing WoW or the rest. So if we were to follow what we believe Blizzard does, we should carve out a niche for our Noxian hypothetical game. Lot of people in this thread have suggested doing the 'opposite' of League - a single player non-lifestyle story-RPG. That's an attempt to appeal to a different player-type, ofc. but runs the risk of making a game for the people who DON'T know your world. The example of this that comes to mind is Star Wars: Galaxies. I adored SW:G - there was a lot of good lessons in that game, but one thng that I found personally saddening was the Combat Update. Outsiders like myself felt that with the big Combat Update, SW:G changed its mechanics to such an extent that it no longer appealed to the type of player that it had initially drawn (mostly RP/Explorer types). They had changed their game in order to appeal to players who enjoyed combat to a greater extent - but those players had already decided that SW:G wasn't for them. They ended up (again, this is all my personal opinion, and I have only the greatest respect for the game) alienating the audience they had in exchange for an audience that didn't want them. In our instance, we would have to take care that the game that we'd make for our Noxus game, isn't so unrelated to the types of games that League players like, that it has too small an audience. For example, if we released... I dunno... an ASCII-art economics simulator for Noxus, then SURE some players (you know who you are) would love that jam! But the majority of League players might feel a bit at a loss :) Great news is that your typical League player, I believe, is a player of games first - and plays a wide variety of games. A broad diet. But it's something to keep an eye on. How different is it ok to make your game, before you actually throw away any audience benefit that you have due to the IP/setting? I guess in other industries, it'd be like releasing a Bob the Builder themed forensics kit, and being surprised when it doesn't sell like hotcakes. (This is where someone points out that it exists and is a million seller, or something. Reality is stranger than I ever can guess.)
Hey, I appreciate the time you're taking to read and respond to all of the related comments here! When it comes to lifestyle, I'm trying to get a better feel for lifestyle games and what's self-competition and what's healthy ecosystem saturation. At first glance, producing more than one lifestyle game is a little self-cannibalistic, but I don't think that's really the case, particularly for the reasons you mentioned. I do think that relying on the same in-game world _across_ games poses a unique challenge, though. I don't think the risk lies in attracting players that may not know your world; rather, the challenge is to create a product that appeals to players outside the subset of 'League players looking for something else'. Blizzard surely would have rolled over by now if, say, Overwatch was marketed purely towards SC2 players looking for a shooter to play on their off-times. Conversely, I wasn't attracted to Skyrim because it was in the same universe as Oblivion, and I'd imagine many players fit that same bill. Frankly, I missed SW:G entirely. I don't really know much about it other than how it went down in flames after turning into too-many-jedi land, but it sounds more like a platform that ended up displacing itself and alienating players that were drawn to its unique premise, which got watered down over time. I guess I'd want to ask: would the same damage have been done to your experience if the combat update was part of a separate title? I want to come back to the Noxus idea, though not necessarily the dwarf fortress Noxus idea :P Speaking of, do you guys have a feel for what kinds of games League players play outside of League? Empirically, this thread would indicate people are generally fans of strategy/RPGs, but that's hardly reliable. I think that RPGs strike a fine balance between broad audience appeal, being stats/equipment/progression driven (somewhat like league) and being story-driven (somewhat not like league). I do kind of want to take a potshot at a totally different idea if we're talking Noxus specifically (which is easier to imagine than Runeterra on the whole). What about a game that strikes an LA Noire meets Star Wars: X-wing meets... Jedi Outcast? Pls bear with me LA Noire struck an interesting narrative of being a cop > detective arc across multiple desks. Despite being assigned cases linearly, the outcome could change depending on the action of the player. X-Wing had a central command hub (was it Home One?) from which you could launch missions to advance the campaign, run practice, or pursue side/bonus missions. Jedi Outcast had some swordplay that was muy bueno. Now, replace 'desks' with 'warbands', 'Home One' with 'Immortal Bastion', and 'Swordplay' with 'Swordplay'. We compromise on the open world to create somewhat linear cases, each of which may land on one of a handful of resolutions. Players can earn a move across warbands and encounter more dangerous foes (all the way up to champs?). Meanwhile, additional missions, or even entirely separate campaigns for different regions, can be built out and added in as part of the 'service' platform. I'm totally spitballing, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a little fun... ...how do you get into game design, anyway? ps My idea for a forensics-themed Bob the Builder episode didn't take off, either.
: Don't worry, Azure Ole - this whole comment chain is opinion :) With you being aware of the 'games as a service' model, are you also familiar with the term 'lifestyle game'? For those reading who may not be, a lifestyle game is one that you can consume as much of as you want, for as long as you want - it kind of becomes one of your main (if not your main) hobby. Like how playing an MMO can be a lifestyle game, or how playing something like Counterstrike can be a lifestyle game - or like League of Legends can be a lifestyle game. Now the thing about lifestyle games is that - well - you can probably only healthily maintain one at a time. I mean, that's kind of in the definition - if it's your lifestyle game, you're probably playing it more than any other. Now some people can treat games with an ending, as lifetyle games - like folks who wander in Skyrim without ever completing the main questline (oh hai) or who go back to Zelda:BotW even after defeating Ganon to find some more korok seeds or just to shield surf (oh hai x 2). For the most part, though, games with an ending can exist alongside lifestyle games, because they occupy a different niche. You play for a week or so, and then go back to your lifestyle game, refreshed. Your games as a service RPG there sounds like it would very much like to be a lifestyle game, am I right? Now that's not a huge problem, but it's a good aspect to think about when spitballing these things. How you expect a game to interact with a players spare time (and whether they have the spare time available) is always good. Second question/point - you talk about it being a game as a service type experience, with the world changing and progressing over time with regular updates - do you fear that this would be in danger of undermining the player's agency? With your off the cuff example, you talk of the front line of the Noxian/Ionian conflict moving with an update - but if as a player I had spent the last week going full Xayah on those dumb Noxians - killing every single invader that I could find - would it not feel like my actions had no consequences if the update added a bunch of Noxian encampments? Where do you fall on the player-agency/consquences vs. authored content power scale? What if I killed (or saved) an important NPC for a future update? What if I had built my player-made house on the field where Galio was due to be re-positioned? Are some NPCs given plot-armor such that they may never be killed? Is the ability for the player to impact the world strongly limited to a few designated locations that will never be affected by the updates? These aren't impossible questions - they are simply difficult questions that result in compromises. Which compromise would you go for?
Haha oh God - I got so focused on mechanical niche that I forgot about player niche. Maybe I'm just projecting that I burn way too much of my time on video games? That said, I'm familiar with SaaS for businesses; we don't really have something analogous to 'Lifestyle', as our end-users probably don't want to think too much about work after they go home for the day. I think that's a great point, and personally I'm not sure I can support an additional lifestyle game. More concretely, creating a lifestyle game is, in a way, competing at least a little for longtime player investment with League. This is a problem with a curated game like this but also the frequent RTS suggestion. Weirdly, though, Blizzard specializes in Lifestyle games; you would think additional lifestyle games would be contraindicated beyond the first. The most compelling reason behind an ongoing experience for this hypothetical game is the relationship between Riot and Runeterra/Lore. This world has developed over the course of years, and I don't see a final, permanent world precipitating out any time soon. This isn't a bad thing! This is reminiscent to me of 'realms' in WoW; as a new region is built out, it can be added to the existing world. Not that I ever played WoW. I've got a take a second to bond over the hundreds of hours I've sunk into Skyrim without ever seeing the end credits! Unkillable NPCs did stick out like a sore thumb here, though. Why do these random stormcloak camps have immortals even after the civil war? But let's take a look at narrative vs. player agency. I think these are frequently at odds, but don't have to be. Couple of key cases, imo: Skyrim has an enormous amount of agency, but the overall narrative and gameplay mechanics suffer for it. Even more hyperbolic: No Man's Sky. On the other end of the spectrum are the games that railroad the player through experiences but gain the cinematic edge (like, idk, Tomb Raider's reboot). Even games that create choice (or the illusion of choice) can snag this (Telltale Series, Mass Effect). Freedom is great, but game assets need to be either dumbed down to accommodate (minecraft) or risk duplicity (two versions of a Shuriman town: pre and post noxian occupation). This is just what I gather superficially, though. Are there better ways to handle this? I do think the Xayah v. Noxus hypothetical is moving in the wrong direction; I think the player can take part in an engaging narrative _without_ being the deciding factor in a war. Sure, Skyrim's civil war is 100% dependent on player involvement, but Witcher 3's Nilfgaardian army feels like a (largely) separate entity (I mean, I don't think the assassination plot is necessary to enjoy the game). Building allegiance to a particular nation can be its own reward (and add to replayability to see things from different perspectives). Ultimately, I suppose it could be collapsed into a Noxus endgame vs Demacia endgame etc. But this derails the shared experience idea, right? Maybe this is better befitting of basegame + dlc, rather than growing a living world, but I'd be excited about the opportunity of the latter. I was thinking about majority rules: the more players that attack Noxian camps, the more likely Ionia ultimately wins the battle, but I'm afraid of letting a player's agency get snubbed by other players (I'm not a huge fan of community events even in League), but leaving the options out there for the leader of Noxus to be Swain/Darius/Leblanc would be interesting. From your perspective, how would a player interact with Champs? Do you see a player squaring off against a Galio? A Jax? I didn't think much about NPCs and whether or not they'd be alive mostly because I don't see John Doe prematurely ending one of the top 100+ most powerful beings in the world early.
: You know what; to heck with it, let's chat about this. So after seeing the Noxian stuff, you want a game about Noxus - what sort of game are you talking about? Now understand that I can't say if Riot is working on anything, nor can I make promises if any of you come up with something astoundingly awesome - but let's have a convo about this now, while we're on the topic, to get a feel for what the Story, Art and Sound board population would want to see if such a thing were to ever happen. Like - Sharjo mentioned RPG, Berserknurple says RTS, HeroGilgamesh (good name) says Skyrim-like, and OP FrontlineFury says Diablo-like. Tyrsfal wants something with PVP and territory control (unsure of the genre or camera type), and Tesla Effect just wants it to be lore focused. Shall we dig a bit deeper? Beyond just a genre, how game-y are you thinking? Singleplayer? Multiplayer? (The ever elusive co-op?) Game with an end, or not? You play as a champion, or you make your own character? I swear I'm not asking you all to design it for me (promise I could design a dozen games before breakfast - any designer can) what I'm interested in is what this very particular microcosm of players wants. So tell me. No harm in it, right?
Bioluminescence, Starting this off with a massive IMO: The genre of the game that would fill this niche needs to operate on the given that _League of Legends_ exists. League itself is a microcosm; we as players get to experience the world of runeterra through brief half-hour(ish) doses. Although new reworks and champs have much longer total voice actor recording time than ever, the rarity of some lines and the way dialogue takes a backseat to gameplay hardly do justice to the world y'all are building. League is an exercise in a fair-gameplay-first, multiplayer experience. I think the best compliment to it, for the lore-hungry among us, is a bid from the opposite end of the spectrum: a story-driven game crafted for an individual viewer. I think about the worlds-best-built, and I immediately land on RPGs, as in the Witchers or Mass Effects of the world. That said, I don't think there's a great way to play in Runeterra from the perspective of a single champion; to do so is to express extreme favoritism towards that individual's story. I think this is the era of GaaS (games as a service), and I see value in updates/events, but Destiny/The Division felt the need to include mmo-characteristics, which may not be necessary. Long story Short: - First Person/over shoulder camera is more immersive than top-down and plays harder into story imo - RPG; goal of player > avatar self-insertion; don't want to be afraid from moral decisions, players should feel they can agree/disagree with different cultural perspectives - Open world, but progressive -- This is where the gaas thing comes in - as Riot's building a world and a story, so too can this world unfold. We could have an update that pushes military camps along a Noxus/Ionia confrontation, or some new encounter scenario with champs. Despite experiencing the world as an individual player, the gaas platform allows you to tell a controlled story that unfolds over a period of time, creating a shared experience for the players in the world you've created, despite it being a singleplayer game.
Rioter Comments
: Riot is a large company with a lot of people doing different things, and a lot of communication issues. Riot does not know what Riot is going to do most of the time. Considering that everyone has to discus all possibilities, before making a final decision, and the PR people are obligated to keep their mouth shut until the decision is final. (To avoid misleading people inadvertently.) And I'm giving Riot benefit of the doubt. Riot probably had all intent to release SoloQ, only to have their plans faultier on them, potentially though no fault of their own.
Rioter Comments
: think we should have sheen rolled back to when it had ap values
Sheen relies on using abilities. Champs that build sheen regularly use abilities AND auto attack. CDR helped these champs use their abilities more often, but AP didn't really apply to all of them. It was changed to CDR to be a more appealing option across the board.
Rioter Comments
: So my CSing has gone up with my rank...
You climb as your mechanics get better, don't sell yourself short.
: People hate assassin's in general. People cry about zed being safe, yet his ult has more counter play than other assassins. And they complain about rengar or talon for doing too much damage too quickly, even if they arnt as safe doing so. Again, people just hate assassin's so they will never be truly satisfied unless they are bad at being an assassin, aka Kassadin.
One of the things that made Kassadin the most banned champ for awhile was his safety through excessive mobility. Talon and Rengar can go in, but they can't as easily get out. Zed is all about playing peekaboo which does kind of change the dynamic a bit
: Extremely unhealthy design which makes a champion almost impossible to balance is the definition of "broken"? Though, to be honest, I don't think Zed's overall design is *that* bad (compared to some others). I think he could become a much more healthy champion with some heavy number retuning. I'm don't mean things like "5 less damage on his Q", but rather things like tuning his ability and projectile speeds, energy costs, margins of safety and so on, to give him more meaningful counterplay, while perhaps removing some of the random extraneous power from his kit. The main things people hate about Zed are: He can poke/waveclear too much, too reliably and too safely. Once he all-ins you, it's hard to avoid his damage (since he's usually using his skillshots from almost right on top of you), so it has fairly little counterplay. He's manaless with a strong early game, a combination pretty much guaranteed to push mages out of the game.
No, you're right, he's not exceedingly due for a rework, but it doesn't hurt to spitball about it. I was thinking about removing his passive on w and buffing his ratios just a little bit for clarity's sake. So basically numbers 1 and 4 then, yeah? Different people target different parts of his kit and I tried to cover all the bases.
: Don't be a sheep. He's a strong support champ.
: Why does nocturne, the guy whose all about darkness. Is darkness, and orignated from darkness.
: > If he gets solo-shut down by zhonya's, he's going to be pretty terrible. Kinda why they changed QSS and have been making Zhonya's more about the active with lesser combat stats (rather then some of the most AP in the game, and hey! The best active too)
I guess I'm not sure what your angle is. Are you saying they're catering to Zed with item changes? But yeah, there is no anti-ad burst item. Ad defensive options really only gel with melee champs, most of whom zed won't see mid.
: Wits End
That shit would be broken op. But you're right, it seems to fill a niche that is generally unwanted right now. Unfortunately, its stats synergize really well with only a few select champions, and it must be balanced around them, sort of like the vlad and spellvamp problem. With changes to WW incoming we might be able to see Wit's End changes. Or maybe if it filled a needed niche? On release, it burned mana... that'd be interesting nowadays.
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Azure Ole

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