: QoL proposal for Rumble: Heat cooldown indicator
Rumble's passive just has tons of hidden info. It doesn't even tell you how long it takes after a spell cast for heat to start decaying.
: > [{quoted}](name=Bârd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d8FbXEja,comment-id=001b0000,timestamp=2019-12-02T04:35:48.150+0000) > > Well that's wrong on multiple levels. > First off, Hook supports don't counter enchanters. Just, no. Yeah okay buddy, sure they don't. Hard engage in general counters enchanters and you've been playing long enough to know it. > The selection of hook supports back then was {{champion:53}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:111}} Your forgot {{champion:89}}. > Now, surely there are no enchanters from back then who had good matchups against these guys... oh wait... > {{champion:117}} converts a successful hook on the ADC into a multi-target knockup. https://i.ibb.co/fG5G1vC/image.png Sona and Nami have similar numbers. Janna wins those matchups currently but then she's sitting at a 53% WR overall... clearly not representative of the normal state of enchanters vs hook supports. > {{champion:25}} > {{champion:26}} Hardly what i'd call enchanters. Morg can counter anyone, but only if she's better than the other guy (Black Shield has a very long and punishable cooldown). Zilean counters anything... if you make it to 6. So basically only in ranks where ADCs actually know how to play safe when facing a hook support. > And that's not to mention all the others who can crush Blitz and Thresh (if not Nautilus) by simply avoiding the hooks and wearing them down. All the others who are artillery mage supports? Because an enchanter can't wear down an enemy they can't afford to get close to who also gets regular heals from Relic Shield. Of course that may change now that Relic lost its heal, but for the last three seasons hook supports have been providing sustain on top of their eat-one-skillshot-and-die kill pressure. > Second, new Runes didn't solve this. If anything, it made these matchups worse. Do you have any data to support this? All I can say for certain is Runes Reforged made the matchup much harder for me, specifically... until I gave up on "protect the carry" and learned to abuse the runes to get kill pressure myself. Which is not how playing an enchanter is supposed to work, but hey, Riot won't stop the damage creep so you gotta play the hand you're dealt. > Do you think {{champion:555}} would have been nearly as OP if he didn't have keystones to abuse, or if the enemy support was running around with 25 bonus armor at level 1? Yes. Because he too would have bonus armor. He'd be even more unkillable than he is now.
1. Again, no. It's not that simple. 2. Leona is not a hook support. She's a diver. If Leona is a hook champion, than so are Lee Sin, Sylas, and Akali, who have essentially the same "hook" mechanic as she does. 3. Those stats are from *now*, with damage being so absurd that being stunned for a second means you just die. I'm talking the days of old runes when damage was *much* lower. 4. You do not need to be a healer to be an enchanter. An enchanter is anybody who focuses on buffing their team. Morgana is an enchanter/control mage hybrid. Zilean *was* a pure enchanter, and was reworked into an enchanter/control mage hybrid. 5. No, not "artillery mages". Nami, old Sona, old Taric, and old Soraka could beat these guys by simply playing well. Nami/Sona poked/traded until they were low on HP. Soraka just sat back there and made sure she wasn't the one who got hooked and then made it impossible to kill her buddy. Taric could out-fight any of the hook supports if they engaged on him and could heal up afterwards. 6. It's self evident. Enchanters can beat hook supports as long as damage is low enough that they can beat them. The introduction of keystones amped up damage to 11, and then runes reforged did it again by filling the lesser runes with damage options. 7. Nope. Pyke is awful at dealing with durable champions. Reverting to old runes leaves him with much less damage to work with as well as opponents who are too tanky for Pyke to burst down.
: Lets be honest. There was a certain unique charm playing pre-rework Urgot
Urgot's core gameplay needed massive changes. His E-Q spam was bland. It was potentially strong, but was incredibly lame to fight, which is the same reason Yorick got reworked. The W was, again, very strong but kinda sucked to fight. It was fun to play, but absolute cancer for the other side. His passive was just hidden power. You hit a guy and they do less damage. That's it. Nothing really to think about here, just a bit of a stat check". Old Urgot had two things really going for him from a design perspective. 1. His looks. He was ugly as fuck and that was the entire point. 2. His ult. Genuinely one of the coolest spells in the game.
: There are a LOT of downsides to new Runes but... Before Runes Reforged if you picked an enchanter and they picked a hook support, you might as well dodge. There was no chance you were going to win. Now the matchup is difficult as all hell but winnable.
Well that's wrong on multiple levels. First off, Hook supports don't counter enchanters. Just, no. The selection of hook supports back then was {{champion:53}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:111}} Now, surely there are no enchanters from back then who had good matchups against these guys... oh wait... {{champion:117}} converts a successful hook on the ADC into a multi-target knockup. {{champion:25}} Press E, problem solved. {{champion:26}} [Ha](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpe-JoGyPsY) And that's not to mention all the others who can crush Blitz and Thresh (if not Nautilus) by simply avoiding the hooks and wearing them down. Second, new Runes didn't solve this. If anything, it made these matchups worse. Do you think {{champion:555}} would have been nearly as OP if he didn't have keystones to abuse, or if the enemy support was running around with 25 bonus armor at level 1?
: old runes were even more p2w than the current system
Runes could only be purchased with IP, and rune pages could be purchased with IP or RP. Neither system is pay to win, but the new system is just flat out worse.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Fleet footwork makes her lane phase a breeze and once she get gunblade there is no way to keep from out sustaining your harass or all in's.
What? You don't need a keystone to do that. Hell, if you're *only* using that keystone you'll find yourself short by quite a bit, since Fleet does jack shit for healing until you have money and levels. If you just want to sustain through lane, just run Taste of Blood. If you run Fleet you're running it for the extra strength in the mid-late game. If you're considering it as a tool for the lane phase, it does less than any other Keystone Akali would consider.
: There NEEDS to be some kind of counter to Akali's smokescreen
Just give League an actual stealth/detection system.
: How can people say the income is too low when supports on average reach full build sooner than previously?
Lúx Bot (EUW)
: You do realise we are no longer in that meta and the item has heavily changed to be a support item.
Yes dumbass, that's the entire point. We went from the core AP item being something that gave moderate AP and resistances to an item that gives shitloads of AP and raw damage.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: >P.S. Janna is stronger now than she EVER was before. you've got no clue what you're talking about, please don't say anything like that Janna's ult used to slow enemies that entered the field, her Q used to deal twice more damage which made her ridiculous midlane, she had better base stats and her E gave AD even if the shield was broken and her passive was GLOBAL >High elo supports just were averse to doing anything but being remote supports like Janna what does that even mean? Any support had stronger kit before riot gave them gold patch 3:14 : Tailwind Range reduced to 800 from global. Bonus movement speed increased to 5% from 3%. Howling Gale Howling Gale AP ratio reduced to (+35% AP) from (+75% AP) Charge damage reduced to 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 (+10% AP) from 25 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60. Zephyr Zephyr Base passive bonus movement speed increased to 4 / 6 / 8 / 10 / 12% from 4 / 7 / 10 / 13 / 16%. NEW EFFECT: Bonus movement speed increases at 2% per 100 AP Base slow amount reduced to 24 / 28 / 32 / 36 / 40% from 24 / 30 / 36 / 42 / 48%. NEW EFFECT: Slow has a 6% per 100 AP ratio capped at 80% total slow. AP ratio reduced to 50% AP from 60% AP. Eye of the Storm Eye of the Storm NEW EFFECT: Bonus AD has a 10% AP ratio. Shield AP ratio reduced to 70% AP from 90% AP this is janna since you talked about her her passive was global, as I told you Q damage got halved because they gave her gold and it's the same for any other supports, they were balanced around not having gold so when riot gave them gold they just nerfed them
He's probably talking relative to the roster. If we're playing a game where supports have no money, Janna is one of the best champions for that since all she really needs is boots.
: You're conveniently leaving out the fact that the new T3 support item gives a nice stat boost; for free.
It isn't for free. It comes at the cost of having actual gold generation. With the old Frostfang, you'd spend 850 gold on a decent item, make up its cost in a few minutes, and move on to other items. With the new Spellthiefs, you spend 400 gold on a terrible item that scales into a sub-par item. Since the item loses 90% of its gold generation when it upgrades, the Spellthiefs went from giving you a potentially unlimited amount of gold to an item that onlty profits you 600 gold. For comparison, that profit is the same amount of gold an ADC frees up for themselves by buying a fucking **Cull**.
Rioter Comments
: Well thanks a lot season 10 for the support item changes
Bard's recommened items literally tell you to get {{item:3850}} {{item:1001}} {{item:1052}} {{item:1029}} as your early core.
Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Bârd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d3zjEOc8,comment-id=000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-11-22T23:48:25.542+0000) > > The same way Old Poppy "worked"? Old Poppy didn't work, hence why she got a rework, she was kept permanently shit on purpose because of how stupid > Vlad is a champion who nobody would really consider balanced, yet has never garnered a following in the years since his release since he's so *goddamn boring* that nobody plays him regardless of how good he is. > > A top player would rather play Aatrox and lose than play Vlad and win, because at least then they aren't falling asleep. That...is so completely and utterly false it hurts. Did you watch worlds, do you even play this game? From Gold up, he has a 4 to 6% play rate top and/or mid? https://u.gg/lol/champions/vladimir/build/?rank=gold He was picked or banned in 20 of the 77 worlds games with a win rate of 55%. https://gol.gg/tournament/tournament-stats/World%20Championship%202019/ Aatrox on the other hand has half of his games played at worlds so I got to ask what the fuck you are talking about?
Old Poppy worked **very** well. She worked so well that if she was allowed to be viable, she would curbstomp every champion in the game with no opportunity to beat her.
Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Skycerer,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d3zjEOc8,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-22T11:57:46.288+0000) > > Because He's op as fck. Wouldn't that imply he does work?
The same way Old Poppy "worked"? The same way OG Talon, Kassadin, and Leblanc "worked"? Vlad is a champion who nobody would really consider balanced, yet has never garnered a following in the years since his release since he's so *goddamn boring* that nobody plays him regardless of how good he is. A top player would rather play Aatrox and lose than play Vlad and win, because at least then they aren't falling asleep.
: Its alright, you just don't comprehend how business works. They will never dedicate resources to gamemodes which do not pull in a decent playerbase. TFT does it, URF does it, Nexus Blitz did it (this one im puzzled as to why it hasn't returned). Everything else was played for a couple of games and back to ranked.
The modes didn't pull in players **because** they never dedicated any goddamn resources to them. If Summoners Rift had received the whopping **two patches of changes** that Treeline did in its lifetime, it would have failed too. I don't give a shit about business, I just want to play a fuckin' video game.
Jamaree (NA)
: Why rework Vlad when he works?
Because he doesn't. The rework a couple years ago didn't actually solve any of his problems, it just took the old kit and threw in some burst damage.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Lúx Bot (EUW)
: Who the hell builds Athene's on Orianna.
When it was a different item? Everybody who had any idea what they were doing. Not just Ori either. Any mage that didn't rush ROA, Lich Bane, or Tear would buy an Athenes first.
Tokishi (NA)
: I just hate her snare, maybe because I'm not used to it, but feels really hard to dodge and to see.
I'm fine with the ability in concept, but the hitbox is rather deceptive. The projectile appears to fizzle out about 50 units before it actually does.
: Senna's Damage Passive
Senna is fine.
: Senna is not a support, no matter what Riot says.
1. Nope. She's one of the squishiest champions in the game, is extremely immobile, and gains a pitiful amount of mist from souls if she's last hitting. The only way for her to get enough souls to be relevant later on is if she constantly trades, which (given her status as an immobile squishy) means she just dies. 2. Nope. Her Q range is super short for primary targets, meaning using it like that will most likely get you killed. Also, only the *healing* hitbox is wide. The damage hitbox is thin as hell. 3. There *is* a condition. If she's using her Q to heal, she's probably not using it to do damage to her lane opponent due to how small the damage hitbox is, and even if you pull that off you sure as hell aren't going to get a soul off of them. This will also push the lane, which is a death sentence for somebody as immobile and squishy as Senna. 4. I *kinda* see where you're coming from with Nami. The other two are just flat out wrong. 5. Again, it is conditional. 6. Removing on hit triggers from Senna's Q would ruin the champion entirely. 7. Name one juggernaut who wants to stand behind their teammates and heal them. 8. Senna is not an ADC. ADC Senna is cheesy as fuck and is extremely weak if the enemy team has anybody with mobility, ranged CC, or burst damage. 9. Sustain ADC's only get nerfed when they're broken as fuck (Warlords bloodlust, Targons Abuse). But no, Senna uses *AUTO ATTACKS* which are *TARGETED* and have *NO COUNTERPLAY!!!!!!* SHE ALSO HAS A GLOBAL ULT AND PERCENTAGE HEALTH DAMAGE SO SHE MUST BE OP!
: What skill did botrk zed require? All you did was ult someone, botrk them, land an easy w-e-q and aa them 1 or 2 times for a kill
Bork Zed needed to use his ult to score kills, since his basic rotation wouldn't do all that much damage, what with Electrocute not existing, flat pen being an uncommon stat, and everybody being tankier. Lethality Zed presses W-E-Q-W-AA-Ignite and kills his target. [Look at this classic play.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8vGaC4OZIs) Ryu gets three basic attacks off on Faker, and Faker still has a quarter of his health left. If this were on live, Faker would be dead after the second attack.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
DeusVult (NA)
: Probably the most pointless change I have ever seen on a PBE patch
Think about it. People have two eyes. Collecting only one is just wasteful.
: That's way too much power for one of the Quest bonuses. That's absolutely insane.
It's less power than what the {{champion:107}} vs {{champion:121}} quest gives.
Rioter Comments
: A Thanks to All Twisted Treeline Players
Oh fuck off. You shot the mode in the leg and then put it down for being unable to run. This ain't even the first time you've done this. Ranked Teams? Gone. Dominion? Gone. Treeline? Gone. What, gonna get rid of ARAM next? Give us a poro emote? It's too hard to give Treeline actual support, but you're fine with your TFT mini-game with Gatcha cosmetics? Fuck off.
Riot Pls (NA)
: Future Stories
The fuck is Bard doing right now?
: What was actually wrong with a basic client from the legacy? They just want the client to be a Giant AD with banners and icons ribbons. it's crap man I just want to play the video game
It was a slow, archaic adobe air client. It was terrible and honestly did need replacing. The new one somehow manages to be just as terrible while having fewer features.
: I request riot looks into the battle bunny line of skins.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: if zoe didn't have true damage on E tanks would forever cockblock her spells with 0 consequences
That's the thing, it effectively *isn't* true damage. It's the same damage type as whatever woke the guy up, since it multiplies the post mitigation value.
: > [{quoted}](name=Bârd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iFUeAiAa,comment-id=000500010001,timestamp=2019-11-04T21:10:33.582+0000) > > You're not *supposed* to beat it by stacking stats. > > That's the damn point. > > You beat true damage by beating the champion who outputs it. > Most true damage is a minor facet of their kit that you can mostly ignore. > > In the cases where it's a big part of their damage output, there's some pretty obvious counterplay. > > {{champion:164}} Stun her when her Q gets primed. The re-cast window isn't super long, and if she gets stunned she won't be able to use it. > {{champion:31}} Dodge rupture, kite him to death. > {{champion:122}} Kite him to death. > {{champion:41}} Shut him down early on so he doesn't have the raw stats to run you down later on. > {{champion:86}} Kite him to death. > {{champion:67}} instead of letting her focus you down one at a time, make her contend with two or more people on her at once. Even just having to condemn somebody away will reset silver bolts. > {{champion:161}} dodge his spells, interrupt his ult. Funny. Because every one of those champions you’ve named are specifically made TO AUTO WIN FIGHTS.
If {{champion:31}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} are auto-winning teamfights against you, either your team comp is such complete and utter garbage that you just flat out deserve to lose from champion select, they were fed enough kills that even an AD Soraka given the same advantage would become a god, or you should consider moving from a track pad to a mouse.
Cdore (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Bârd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P5TYZHs8,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2019-11-04T18:47:12.502+0000) > > Instead of getting rid of Stopwatch, make it a summoner spell. > > **Stasis** > 270 second CD > Become invulnerable and untargetable for 2.5 seconds, but unable to take actions. That's not a bad idea. Not bad at all, actually. Still, I rather they rethink summoner spells in truth. They were a neat idea back then, but the game has involved so much that certain mechanics are hallmarks at this point. Flash, for instance, seems like it's just a defacto spell, that should be as available as trinkets. Teleport is also an important spell, so either having it as an item, or something obtained in game seems appropriate,t oo.
For TP, just combine it with Recall and give the a shared 60 second CD, innate to every champion.
: True damage is fine in most current cases. There are a few questionable ones that make you think "why?" though.
Most of them make sense, but there are a couple that are just plain weird, yeah. Why does Zoe's E do true damage? Like, it's just plain misleading. The proc damage on her E *is* reduced by resistances, since it doubles the *post mitigation value* of whatever hit woke the guy up.
: > [{quoted}](name=Bârd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iFUeAiAa,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-11-04T19:33:32.958+0000) > > True stealth is dumb. Just have a stealth system and stick with it. This is why they *did* remove obscured. > > True damage is fine. You can't beat it through stacking stats, and there's nothing wrong with that. You can’t beat it by stacking stats like you can every other stat. That’s a problem. The issue is, there is nothing that counters true damage, which is in itself a problem.
You're not *supposed* to beat it by stacking stats. That's the damn point. You beat true damage by beating the champion who outputs it. Most true damage is a minor facet of their kit that you can mostly ignore. In the cases where it's a big part of their damage output, there's some pretty obvious counterplay. {{champion:164}} Stun her when her Q gets primed. The re-cast window isn't super long, and if she gets stunned she won't be able to use it. {{champion:31}} Dodge rupture, kite him to death. {{champion:122}} Kite him to death. {{champion:41}} Shut him down early on so he doesn't have the raw stats to run you down later on. {{champion:86}} Kite him to death. {{champion:67}} instead of letting her focus you down one at a time, make her contend with two or more people on her at once. Even just having to condemn somebody away will reset silver bolts. {{champion:161}} dodge his spells, interrupt his ult.
SirEnds (NA)
: 0.00 fight duration.... hmmmmm
Given how long her R takes, I don't think it's possible to get all her abilities to hit in the same tick. Seems like a bug to me.
: All "True" should be deleted
True stealth is dumb. Just have a stealth system and stick with it. This is why they *did* remove obscured. True damage is fine. You can't beat it through stacking stats, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Cdore (NA)
: Riot should just embrace Teleport
Instead of getting rid of Stopwatch, make it a summoner spell. **Stasis** 270 second CD Become invulnerable and untargetable for 2.5 seconds, but unable to take actions.
Sageace (NA)
: The shield was removed for a reason. Look it up.
I *know* what happened to Ornn, because the way Riot handles Ornn has pissed me off for years and I remember it every time I see this sack of wasted potential in my champion menu (not in my games, since he doesn't exist in game). The shield was removed because Riot's balance team is full of a bunch of prideful morons who can't admit they fucked up and hate going back on bad changes. 1. Ornn is released. He's weak because people are bad at him. 2. Ornn gets kneejerk buffs to his W damage and range. He's immediately becomes OP as shit because in addition to blocking *your* damage, he chunks the living shit out of you. 3. Instead of putting his damage back where it was, *like a sane person*, they removed Unstoppable. 4. This fixes absolutely nothing. He's still OP as shit, but nobody plays him in solo queue anymore because without his Unstoppable W, the only part of his kit that actually took some mechanical skill, he was *fucking boring*. 5. They do a minor overhaul to his passive and W, giving back unstoppable but removing his shield. As a result, we have a champion who is *kinda* fun, but is so goddamn weak that you just get steamrolled by most popular toplaners. On release, Ornn was fine. It's just that he wasn't a carry and people were bad.
Rioter Comments
Ulanopo (NA)
: Proposed Rules Update to Gameplay Sub-Board (Feedback Wanted)
"Don't Call for Reversion" is a bad rule. A lot of the time, reverting something is *absolutely* the right thing to do, even if Riot hates doing it. For example, take Ornn. On release his W had: * A shield * Unstoppable * Low damage He had a low win rate, but that was due to Ornn being new. If we had that version right now, maybe with the Upgrade Forging rework staying, he'd be perfect. ...but no. Riot doesn't *do* reverts. First they upped his W's damage and range. It became a broken ability with so much offense and defense combined that it became impossible to outlane him as a melee. Then they removed the unstoppable. It didn't fix how broken he was in pro play, but it *did* ruin the champion for solo queue by taking all the fun out of him. Then they gave back unstoppable, but took away the shield. He got his cheeky plays back and became pretty fun again, but without the shield on his W he's just dogshit.
: Is Thresh A Tank?
He's a bit durable, but isn't a real tank.
: Q- Incinerate: 80 / 130 / 180 / 230 / 280 + (+ 75% AP) W: No similar skill E - Eye of the Storm: 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240 (+70% AP) + Bonus AD 14 / 23 / 32 / 41 / 50 (+10%AP) Make it clear. Her base ability bad due 6 level instead of 5 (like Q number) Her base ability hasnt trademark. Janna shield only weaker 40 +10% AP but she gave free BF instead.
You have to take her other spells into account. Her passive gave her baseline AP, meaning her spells hurt more early on than those two. She also has her ult available to her early on, giving her more power.
: > [{quoted}](name=Bârd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZJhTbaai,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-11-01T02:34:21.753+0000) > > I've been a support main since season 3, and I continue playing this version of support in Dota. > > The item builds aren't terribly interesting, but that's mostly just down to League having absolutely terrible items. Good for you. But your agenda and likes do not exactly align with all support mains in League. Why can't you just accept that "Going full damage without utility" should be an option in a game? It should not outscale CC and tankiness that a support tank brings or an enchanter but "another gimped apc in support role" should be an option IF a team wants to go that way.
If you want to go full damage with no utility, go mid. If you want to do that from the support role, that should be an off-meta cheese pick. As things stand, not only is it not off-meta, it's a goddamn *staple*. According to lolalytics, AP Shaco is an S- tier support, and Zyra, Swain, Vel'koz, and Xerath are A tier as supports. It'd be one thing if they were being picked as supports because they had some hidden potential as low income picks, but *that's not why this is happening*. They're just making that much money.
: As a support main who saw all the changes you're describing, supporting in the old days was mostly unfun and a pain. You just bought heart of gold and philo stone all games and generated gold to buy wards. 0 itemization, 0 interesting builds. If i didn't enjoy supporting i wouldn't even touch the role at those seasons and thats why the role was so unpopular back then.
I've been a support main since season 3, and I continue playing this version of support in Dota. The item builds aren't terribly interesting, but that's mostly just down to League having absolutely terrible items.
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Bârd

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