Ætheist (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UAUAEUKq,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-10-19T00:08:58.090+0000) > > 9 seconds? Are you high? > Orrns W is 3.5 currently, and it was 2.5 before. > > Theres nothing wrong with orrn having outplay ability... And while it might have been to strong before - back when orrn did 25% max health over 2.5 seconds - it most certainly wouldnt be to strong NOW due to the nerfs which have occured since. Wasn't Ornn only unstoppable during the march itself? He only marches forward for 0.75 seconds. Coupled with the shield, that basically made his W a Riposte with a lower cooldown that dealt %HP magic damage and applied Brittle _(which then did more %HP magic damage)_.
Yeah, but it doesn't block **all** the damage, just a chunk. It also doesn't return a stun at range, slow attack/movement speed, or grant him complete CC immunity (if the CC had a longer duration than the unstoppable, he'd just be disabled for that remaining bit at the end). It was a strong effect, sure, but it's not god mode.
Paroe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Bârd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UAUAEUKq,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-10-18T22:44:22.006+0000) > > Sure. > > Nerf his CC, damage, W range, W shield, R CD, forging, whatever. > > If that was in exchange for unstoppable on W, I wouldn't care. > > He'd go from a champion you pick thinking "I know his ult will be good here but I hate every second of this" to one you pick while thinking "Ayyy this will be fun". Why? All the unstoppable did was give him outplay ability that wasnt super situational and raise his skill ceiling - much like Yi's alpha strike. Orrn received further nerfs after unstoppable was removed, too; hes a victim of riots patented "compound nerfs". Giving him back unstoppable NOW wouldnt bring him over the edge, it would bring him closer TO the edge at upper skill levels.
Because he's already strong in competitive (if only for his ult), so I can't imagine him being buffed without a price and there's a lot of things I would be fine exchanging for that. * I'd give up masterworks (screw it, I'd exchange his entire passive). * I'd give up his Q terrain * I'd give up his E terrain destruction * I'd give up a massive chunk of W's damage/shield * I'd give up W range * I'd give up his ult range * I'd give up brittle CC extension I don't necessarily **want** him to lose any of these, but if he has to become weaker in order for him to regain the only mechanic that made me like him in the first place, so be it.
: no unstoppable is you cant be CC'd
...which is different from tenacity. With 100% tenacity, you are still fully vulnerable to airborne and displacement effects. With unstoppable, you aren't.
: Why does it have to be on _W_ specifically? I'd personally rather put it on his E, given it's the dash ability where unstoppable imo makes the most sense, and I'm pretty sure I've seen Ornn continue to spit his W flame while CC'd (don't quote me on this, my memory is foggy).
1. That doesn't work with his theme or playstyle. Ornn is an immovable object, not an unstoppable force. 2. His E travel time is shorter than his W cast time, meaning you'd have even less time than the old 0.75 second unstoppable. 3. Flying unstoppably towards the enemy for an AOE knockup is Malphite's shtick. 4. It makes him able to escape too reliably. 5. The cast time on E would make it clunky to use. 7. He should be using his E to get where he wants to be, not to stay where he wants to be.
: You ever lane vs Ornn? Nah it wasn't a mistake. And hes still a strong pick on coordinated teams.
If you ever laned against Ornn, you should know that Unstoppable wasn't what broke him. The buffs to his damage and range were what broke him.
: Alright well you know what unstoppable does? Makes you immune to all CC. Meaning when timed right, could dodge Camille ult, Morgana bind, and a lot of other things. This meant, that Ornn, a tank, now had a 9 second anti-cc buffer on his W. at level 1. THis made him so OP. Someone diving you under turret? Use W. They removed it cause it made him so OP. Almost all other unstoppables are on ults, Warwick Ult, Zac Ult, Sion Ult.
Ok, so you never played Ornn on release, or if you did you never understood his mechanics. * He couldn't ignore Camille ult if it was cast on him. * Whatever was left of Morg Q would still affect Ornn when it came back. * This isn't what made him OP. What made him OP was the massive damage buffs he received.
: Reminder that removing his unstoppable did nothing whatsoever and anything you could do with him before you can still do it today
You could ignore every displacement or airborne effect in the game. {{champion:266}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:136}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:143}} In case you hadn't noticed, **there are a handful of those.** You could also partially ignore every hard CC in the game, since you would only be disabled by whatever of it remained at the end of your W duration, but I'm not going to list every stun, root, and snare in the game. But sure, "nothing whatsoever".
: how about giving him extra tenacity during his W? it wouldn't be as OP as unstoppable but would still be CC resistance And maybe his W cant be interrupted by CC so that we have something that actually counters taunt
That defeats the entire purpose. The biggest part of unstoppable is that you can't be displaced. Tenacity doesn't do that.
Moody P (NA)
: ok but only if you nerf his CC
Sure. Nerf his CC, damage, W range, W shield, R CD, forging, whatever. If that was in exchange for unstoppable on W, I wouldn't care. He'd go from a champion you pick thinking "I know his ult will be good here but I hate every second of this" to one you pick while thinking "Ayyy this will be fun".
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Bârd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8QWrRuai,comment-id=00010003,timestamp=2018-10-18T16:12:27.109+0000) > > Riot has tried their hand at fixing up most older champions, its just that they aren't always successful. > > The only ones I can think of that haven't been done yet are {{champion:60}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:62}}, and those guys can be divided into three groups. > > * In line for an update of some scale (Jax, Kayle, Lissandra) > * Don't really need anything (Elise, Hecarim, Karthus, Nami, Renekton, Riven, Vayne) > * Forgotten about by Riot (Vi, Wukong). There have been 28 individual champions reworked in the last 3 years. Sejuani, Zac, and Maokai were updated mid season 2017, this brings us to 31. This brings up to the Assassin update, where the only champions who actually changed were Talon, Katarina, and Leblanc (who's entire rework was reverted). The other 6 of 9, were simply minor balance changes / adjustments not even remotely close to a VGU. This puts us at 33 (if you subtract Leblanc since she was reverted). Similar to the Assassin update, the Mage update only performed minor adjustments on 6 champions, zero of which are worth counting as a VGU. Still at 33 champions. The pre-season 6 Marksman update was also, mostly just balance adjustments and no VGU's. Graves and Kog'maw got some fairly unique and heavy changes, so perhaps we could count those as sufficient for "updated", but then again Kog'maw was reverted, so that only leaves Graves. That would put us at 34 champions. That puts at a total of 34 champions with "VGU scale" updates in the past 3 years. You might want to double check your list again if you honestly believe that the ones you mentioned are the only champions "that haven't been done yet". To start, you didn't add Volibear, who has never been reworked one time in League of Legends history, nor did you put Gragas on there.. who hasn't been touched since 2014. Also, to say Riven doesn't need anything would be complete ignorance. Have you seen Riven's win rate recently? She's one of the worst Top laners in the game by win rate, and she has a pretty decent play rate. Riven is not aging well in this meta and is quickly deteriorating. That also, isn't even a good standard to look at. Riven's kit is becoming more and more dated with all these overloaded kits that are getting put into the game. I can look at the list of champions and put down easily 60 or more champions who kits aren't on scale with the latest champions that have been added and updated in the game.
Did I say rework? No. I did not. I said they fixed up their kits. Only the ones who were really bad beforehand needed actual reworks. There are only a handful of old champions who haven't had their kits somewhat modernized (using Lissandra as the cutoff for an old champion). {{champion:266}} rework {{champion:103}} speed boost {{champion:84}} rework {{champion:12}} E/Passive swap {{champion:32}} Curse update {{champion:34}} Expanding ult {{champion:1}} Tibbers rage {{champion:22}} rework {{champion:53}} W frontload {{champion:63}} Passive explosion {{champion:51}} W/E headshots {{champion:69}} Grounded Miasma, no boots {{champion:31}} E update, R stack restrictions removed {{champion:42}} Damage Split, the Package {{champion:122}} Q delay/heal, Noxian Might {{champion:131}} Steroid increased, made windowed {{champion:36}} E magic resist and AA reset {{champion:119}} Bleed replaced with League of Draven {{champion:28}} rework {{champion:81}} W update {{champion:9}} Passive update {{champion:114}} rework {{champion:105}} W update, shark update {{champion:3}} rework {{champion:41}} rework {{champion:86}} Villain, W stacks, more E spins per level, W made stronger for the first instant {{champion:79}} rebalanced to be a tank instead of a mage {{champion:104}} rework {{champion:74}} rework, turret beams modernized later {{champion:39}} rework {{champion:40}} passive update, Q speed change {{champion:59}} Forgot him. {{champion:126}} R no longer takes skill points {{champion:43}} rework {{champion:38}} rework/nerf at the end of S3 {{champion:55}} rework {{champion:85}} ult now hits everything simultaneously {{champion:121}} they've shuffled around what his evolutions do a couple times now {{champion:96}} the gatling gun mode (reverted), execution R's {{champion:7}} rework (reverted), silence removed {{champion:64}} Q changed from % missing HP to flat damage, R gained collision damage based on targets HP {{champion:89}} R aa buffs {{champion:117}} Q AOE damage gutted, AP from whimsy removed {{champion:99}} Passive AP ratio added, W shield stacks {{champion:54}} W reworked {{champion:90}} reworked {{champion:57}} reworked {{champion:11}} AP Yi removed, W pauses spell durations {{champion:21}} reworked {{champion:82}} reworked {{champion:75}} R resists and 1/2 Q cooldown, E % pen from flat {{champion:111}} Forgot him. {{champion:76}} reworked {{champion:56}} speed boost towards feared enemies {{champion:20}} reworked {{champion:2}} reworked, R speed boost {{champion:61}} Forgot her. {{champion:80}} the "target spells draw creep aggro" change was made specifically because of him. {{champion:78}} reworked {{champion:133}} reworked {{champion:33}} R slow, W self slow, E AS, passive tweak {{champion:107}} reworked multiple times, though the most recent one was reverted {{champion:68}} E updated {{champion:13}} do I have to say it? {{champion:113}} reworked multiple times {{champion:35}} reworked {{champion:98}} reworked {{champion:102}} E update {{champion:27}} passive/W update {{champion:14}} reworked {{champion:15}} reworked, W changed to have all bounces crit off of an initial crit {{champion:72}} reworked {{champion:37}} reworked {{champion:16}} reworked {{champion:50}} reworked {{champion:134}} passive bonuses updated {{champion:91}} reworked {{champion:44}} reworked {{champion:17}} passive/R updates {{champion:412}} soul scalings updated {{champion:18}} reworked, then modernized again later {{champion:48}} W/R update {{champion:23}} Forgot him {{champion:4}} Forgot him {{champion:29}} Q update {{champion:77}} Q update {{champion:6}} rework {{champion:110}} Q nerf, W update {{champion:45}} Passive, Q, E, R updates {{champion:112}} rework {{champion:8}} rework {{champion:106}} E update {{champion:19}} rework {{champion:101}} rework {{champion:5}} W/R update {{champion:83}} rework {{champion:154}} rework {{champion:238}} AD steroid changed {{champion:115}} W updated {{champion:26}} rework {{champion:143}} rework Looks like I did forget Jarvan, Naut, Ori, Trynd, and TF
: Well yea, they keep updating champions with these powerful kits while leaving the older champions outdated and weak. No player in the game wants to play against monsters like these when 80% of the champion pool isn't equipped to play against them.
Riot has tried their hand at fixing up most older champions, its just that they aren't always successful. The only ones I can think of that haven't been done yet are {{champion:60}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:62}}, and those guys can be divided into three groups. * In line for an update of some scale (Jax, Kayle, Lissandra) * Don't really need anything (Elise, Hecarim, Karthus, Nami, Renekton, Riven, Vayne) * Forgotten about by Riot (Vi, Wukong).
: Oh hey, Karthus buffs on PBE :D
I mean, sure. That's fine. I'd rather they fixed the bug that sometimes stops you from casting spells for the first couple seconds of your passive, but I suppose this is alright. No longer will you spend 5 seconds frantically trying to last hit with auto attacks because the ADC is at 120 health and you're 20 mana short.
Rioter Comments
: All Support players are inters - prove me wrong, but show your work!
Ever seen a Hail of Blades Bard? They will get their carry fed, sure. They simply disagree about who the carry is.
: if you only could use 6 champions
{{champion:432}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:201}}
: Riot, I don't think diamond players like your reworks
Akali's rework is fine design wise, but she's definitely over tuned. Irelia is the same way as Akali. Urgot is Fiora 2.0. His new design is absolutely amazing, but some number tweaks to orient his builds more towards damage would not go amiss. Graves can be balanced, but is cancer when he isn't balanced. He isn't currently balanced. Aatrox has been changed in 5 patches/hotfixes since his rework, and in 4 of those he was buffed. It's no wonder he's too strong right now. Eve is something that nobody has ever liked playing against just because stealth is annoying. That doesn't make Eve a bad design.
: Ikr? he is not even that "recent" of a rework, has received no buffs at all, just QoL changes. In my honest opinion he is fine, decently strong but not overpowered. Just because he fairs well against most meta tops doens't make him overbearing. Ban rate is justified since the meta right now is mobile assassins which he destroys
* Knee CD reduced by 75% at later levels. * R missile speed increased by ~1000. * Q delay reduced by 0.25 seconds. * R2 self root removed. * Added a W duration pause during cast times. * Champion hitbox size reduced by 37.5%. * Base AS increased from "abysmal" to "low". He's gotten a good deal of legit buffs.
: >Further nerfs should be done to rageblade, since that's what's breaking both Kai'sa and Varus. If that´s so, why isn´t Rageblade breaking Kayle? Or Yi? Or on-hit Teemo? Or hell, Kog'Maw, even. Could it be due to the fact the problem is in fact the AP scalings on Kai'Sa and Varus' respective %HP damage passives, not the item? Kog'Maw also has %HP damage in his kit, but even if he's fed as hell and has entered turret mode, if someone gap closes and stays onto him, he's dead. Varus and Kai'Sa have may more ways to enable kiting than Kog'Maw.
{{champion:10}} doesn't have much innate damage for rageblade to multiply. {{champion:17}} has even less than Kayle. Please don't build Rageblade on Teemo, it's honestly terrible. {{champion:11}} even though he's great with Phantom Hit, rageblade itself provides subpar stats for him and is a massive detour. Plus, even though he gets tons of damage from it, he's still vulnerable as all hell. {{champion:96}} has incredible synergy with the item, but because of champions like Camille, Aatrox, and Irelia being strong and champions like Lulu being weak, he just gets dove on immediately. If we were in a different meta, it would absolutely break him.
: Can we stop letting CertianlyT make champions?
Akali has overtuned numbers, but the design is fine. Her shroud is strong but not nearly as broken as the boards make it out to be. Zoe is a case of a good design that either went off the rails at the last second or needed another couple weeks in development. If she was based around zipping around the battlefield and kiting people out instead of instantly killing people with E>Q, she'd be one of the better designs in the game. Simply reallocating her power budget would go a long ways. Kalista has some interesting points, but she needed another several months in development before she could be released in an acceptable state. Her passive needs to be reworked (both the hops and the bond), her W needs to be reworked, and her ult needs to give more control to the person playing the champion. IMO she's his only completely awful champion release.
: Share your OWN thoughts on how you'd nerf Kai'Sa, Graves, Irelia, Aatrox, Urgot & Akali
{{champion:145}} * Passive nerfs are probably sufficient. Further nerfs should be done to rageblade, since that's what's breaking both Kai'sa and Varus. {{champion:104}} * Reload speed AS scaling reduced {{champion:39}} * E hitbox reduced to better match visuals, or E visuals widened to better match hitbox. * When Q resets on a marked target, you now refund 60/80/100% of your Q's CD instead of resetting it entirely (at levels 1/6/11). {{champion:266}} * HP % after reviving is now based on the damage you have dealt during World Ender instead of how long it has been active. {{champion:6}} * HP ratio removed from Purge. Instead scales with bonus AD. * Fear Beyond Death max slow reduced from 75% to 30%. Fear Beyond Death's recast can no longer be cleansed. {{champion:84}} * Lower damage for multiple passive procs on the same target within a 2 second window. * R1 stun duration lowered from 0.5 to 0.1
: Understanding Kai'Sa's Nerf
It's a similar mechanic to Veigar's ult now.
: With LolKing shutting down will there be a replacement for model viewer?
I think you could do something like that with the Skin Spotlights tool. You'd need a game with the skin in it, though. Not as convenient.
: Everyone complains about CertainlyT but personally, I feel that Riot Jag is more problematic.
CertainlyT makes champions that are extremely flashy and hard to deal with, but are generally better balanced than people give them credit for. Jag makes champions who have power levels on par with CertainlyT's creations without that same level of flashiness. They all take mechanical skill, but not the specialized skills of somebody like Yasuo. If you're mechanically sound on most champions, you could pick up a Jag champion in a few games and just run people over so long as the champion wasn't in the gutter.
: Tristana Rework Idea
I think a better passive would be something like: If Tristana is moving towards her target, basic attacks will not interrupt her movement. Something that helps her press the attack, rather than something that rewards her for sitting on top of the enemy team.
: This fela makes a very good point in regards to the "rework for the sake of skill expression" that I just want to expand on. 1. Some people will never have good connections due to their location 2. Others may simply be neurologically/physically impaired, resulting in motor control difficulties or in some cases no control (eg tourette syndrome), reaction time deficits ect. 3. Hardware constraints resulting in input lag or consistent low FPS. 4. Severe learning disorders or individuals on certain medications that result in memory deficits (many epilepsy management drugs have this unfortunate side effect). The list goes on but there're many cases where champions like {{champion:32}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:51}} {{champion:54}} ect are necessary
Yeah, but there's a difference between creating an accessible champion and one with a low skill ceiling. {{champion:51}} is accessible to anybody who picks her up, but can still be pushed to another level by mechanically skilled players. Meanwhile, a champion like {{champion:32}} simply doesn't have much he can accomplish outside of doing his basics really well.
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: > Rework the Orbs so that there is only one kind of them, and they progress to both transformations instead of only one of them. This is already the case. If you get 99% red orbs but you get the last 1% from blue you will get blue kayn. > 3. Kayn has terrible ganks early game, but is forced to gank way harder than most other champions. Yes this is for balance purposes. Kayn is not supposed to be strong pre transformation. The only legit problem you listed is that you cant ping your progress or that you can transform. I honestly dont know how these posts gets even approved with so many false information.
Nope. You have two meters, one for red and one for blue. The meter you're shown for your passive represents whichever of those two meters is currently the highest. If you're hitting ranged champions when you have more progress towards your red form, there will be no visible progress towards the meter until your blue meter has surpassed the red meter.
: The issue is when you lack any of the following: 1. Reliable hard CC with a hit indicator 2. Abundant high AOE dmg 3. Enough damage to scare her away should you land a spell. Generally with 1, you get one or the other. Example of reliable hard CC would be {{champion:161}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:79}}, these were the only one's I could pick out, if I missed a bunch lemme know. The problem with many of these spells is that you don't see where they hit akali, you just hope they do. Then champs with an indicator (eg where the spell stops or an audio cue) {{champion:103}} {{champion:34}} {{champion:136}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:101}} As you can see set B is greater in number than set A, however they trade this indicator for reliability, in that the projectile size is generally smaller or is delayed. But then we have set C, unreliable CC with no indicator, in other words almost useless 1v1 (ALMOST!) {{champion:1}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:143}} And of course set D, where the CC is point and click where you must get your mouse to her and press a key within 0.6 seconds {{champion:90}} {{champion:4}} The issue with 2 is this damage must be wide enough to potentially cover a max sized shroud, champions like that are few and far between and if it's DOT, chances are akali will kill you before you kill her. {{champion:34}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:85}} Then 3, very few mages can single combo akali through her shroud because their CC doesn't last long enough, their combo takes too long or there's a point+click aspect. First{{champion:127}} second {{champion:161}} third {{champion:134}} "If you're low on hp, wouldn't you just recall, anyway?" If you didn't kill her in shroud then she has killed you, plain and simple. > I just don't follow. Like, I get she can be annoying depending on who you are, but EVERY champ can be annoying. Being annoying doesn't justify giving Riot the wrong message that we want less assassins that offer counter-play and more assassins like K6 or LeBlanc that thrive off of quickly slashing your chest open in .3 seconds, if you ask me. It's less about annoying and more so what feels fair. Let's use common champions that feel unfair based on boards complaints: {{champion:142}} She felt unfair because one mistake meant death with no chance of escape. Generally you have room for 2 mistakes with other champs. It's still a skillshot, it can still be dodged, it can still be cleansed/spellshielded. {{champion:122}} He felt unfair because he deals brutally more damage than dedicated damage classes while being almost as beefy as dedicated beef classes. But play a certain way and avoid the Q and you can prevail. {{champion:420}} People had no clue how to handle her E. First dodge it, but if not... let a tent spawn, keep it alive and stand next to it. The only spawn space is gone and ur safe. You see all these champs abuse common mechanics which can be avoided in the first place, and if not can then be RELIABLY played around. There're of course more examples just as there're examples of the opposite. {{champion:36}} Feels unfair because he has access to a stat stick heal that would take a team of supports to match {{champion:114}} Feels unfair because she forces you to play the game her way and can't be counterbuilt (vitals) {{champion:105}} If unfair because his E is a unique tool for him that has no work around. {{champion:268}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:429}} all suffer from this exact problem. Most of them either take a mechanic to the extreme (mundo) or have a mechanic no one else has, like akali. Since these mechanics are made in isolation, they have one cookier cutter way to be dealt with that requires specific champions played in specific ways with specific builds. Because there is no other mechanic like it to match it.
There's no such thing as an AOE with no indicator. If you damage Akali when she's invisible, she shimmers. Same as every invis.
: [Discussion] I wanted to ask something regarding character appeal to players
{{champion:432}} He doesn't have mass appeal for a few reasons. **Theme** He definitely has a theme, but to anybody who isn't intimately familiar with his lore it would seem that he's just a generic "mysterious entity". That isn't very far off, but it's not much to go off of. **Visuals** A very interesting design, but if you aren't used to him he'll just look floaty and weird. **Sound** I personally love the sounds Bard makes, just because of the relaxing mood they give off (especially when gathering chimes), but they don't really give off much of a personality aside from being slightly whimsical. **Gameplay** Very fun, but also very difficult. Requires a lot of practice to simply not be dead weight, and his capabilities when played to max potential aren't immediately obvious when you look at his kit. There are a certain group of people who love Bard for all his quirks, but it's not exactly a design that attracts hordes.
: Why is literally trolling in game so easy to get away with?
Because you can't differentiate between trolling and lag/incompetence with an algorithm and it's not practical to manually review every game that gets reported.
: Some clear cases where the item designers didn't learn from past mistakes
DFG was removed because it multiplied the damage output of any burst mage. If they were balanced without it, they'd end up dealing much more damage than is reasonable. If they were balanced with it, they'd be far too weak without it. If the item itself didn't amplify enough to break a champion, it simply wasn't bought because it would be trash. Duskblade is a flat amount of damage, which can be balanced because it doesn't have many variables. WOTA was removed because it was too strong on Vlad, Morde, and Rumble but was irrelevant otherwise. Gunblade is currently good on a ton of champions, no idea what you're on about with it being something nobody buys. Cloak of Agility was removed because buying one felt like shit no matter what. Stormrazor has a great buildup and is decent to have.
Rioter Comments
: Rek' sai needs to be reverted to her previous state
**Passive** Not as weak as many people make it out to be, but it's not very strong in her primary role. It's like Morgana's W in that respect. If you play her in lanes, you can get two heals off per wave and that adds up pretty damn quick. Reverting it to the old form would (ballpark numbers) double its healing, but also make it take nearly twice as long to both generate the fury and to consume it. This change would be a small nerf, since even though the heal change would be about power neutral, this would be an indirect nerf to her E by making it so you can't get the true damage bite as easily. For that reason, I'm not in favor of reverting it. **W** Something needs to be done with this spell to make it scale with levels aside from its raw damage. Candidates include * CD * Per target CD * CC duration * Movement Speed bonus * Tremor Sense refresh rate. The AOE knock up needed to go, but the spell does need some small buffs. **R** The core concept is actually really solid, it just needs a few changes. * The damage portion of Void Rush will follow them even through blinks/dashes. * Void Rush refreshes the CD of Burrow and Tunnel, as well as the per-target CD of Unburrow on the pounce target. The spell opens up a lot of outplay potential with the untargetability and I find it hella fun. Meanwhile, the old ult was lame as hell. If the ultimate ability of your apex predator is nicknamed the "Farm Alarm", there's a problem. The only part of the old ult I'd like to see reincorporated is the passive attack speed, which I personally think should be added to her Q when it's active.
: The heal part,is shit also,i had 4.2k hp on her,and i received like 130 hp for each fury consumed...come on...
It's a decently strong passive, just not in her primary role and not in the late game. If you play her top, you can get two full passive heals per wave. Even as early as level 3, that's 80 health back every wave. It's a lot of healing as long as you can hit the creeps, but it falls off once you start stacking HP. It's one of those spells like Morgana W. You can definitely play the champion in a way that makes the ability work, but their primary role/build doesn't support that.
: If your close enough so 1 second of increased movement speed is going to catch you, you may have mispositioned.
That would be more relevant if he were using his ult while trying to escape, but it's different if he's initiating. Thing is, he doesn't have to get on top of you with the ult. He only has to get within 950 units, the max range of a Q-E combo, or 1125 units, the max range of an E-W combo. Most champions don't have the range to stop him from that far away, and the speed boost is really quite significant. Not only is it a large boost, it's a large **flat** boost. This means that any % movement speed increases you have will multiply that value. Say we're looking at a level 16 Aatrox with Nimbus Cloak, Tabi, celerity, and Ghostblade; not a terribly uncommon build. 345 base speed 240 from World Ender 40 from Ghostblade passive 45 from Tabi 100 from Nimbus Cloak during the second second. +20% from Ghostblade active +1.5% from Celerity That Aatrox is moving at 814 movement speed, and is briefly moving at 936 with Nimbus Cloak on. (345+240+40+45)1.215=814.05 (345+240+40+45+100)1.215=935.55 Unless there's somebody between him and his intended target, Aatrox is going to be going very, very fast.
: Until you shoot literally anything behind yourself at him and he gets slowed because the movement speed is out of combat only.
It's unconditional for the first second. Combo that with Nimbus Cloak and maybe Ghostblade and you have one very fast boy.
: "Slow moving characters with little or no dashes are trolling. You NEED three dashes to play..."
I mean I wouldn't call Aatrox "slow moving". If Aatrox decides to press R and run directly at you, you're going to fight him whether you want to or not.
Selegun (NA)
: May I ask that you elaborate on your point a bit more? I would like to debate this further though I'm currently at a loss for the direction you wish to take.
Monsters are neutrals. Riot lets Morde heal a ton against them because it's not a huge deal if he has a lot of sustain when he's fighting neutrals. Pets are a part of the enemy team's arsenal. Having your own weapon turned into a massive heal (especially by such a low CD, low profile spell) can swing fights and just feels like shit, especially when they're AI that you can't stop from swarming him. That's why Heimerdinger's turrets are immune to lifesteal and spell vamp; giving the enemy life to leech off of sucks, especially when the source of that life is a significant portion of your power budget. Things like Yorick Ghouls especially suck, because the threat they pose is absolutely tiny compared to how much health Morde is getting off of it. Honestly, it would make more sense if Morde's heal was reduced against small units instead of against minions. That way he could get the full heal off of: * Cannons * Epic/Large/medium Monsters * Daisy * Heim R-Q * Tibbers * Maiden of the Mist * Enemy Morde Ghost * LB/Shaco/Wukong Clones But would get reduced healing for: * Melee/ranged creeps * Small monsters * Heim Q * Shaco Boxes * Spiderlings * Voidlings * Mist Walkers * Zyra Plants * Zac passive
Selegun (NA)
: {{champion:60}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:154}} can also be added to your list. I'd also wager if they pulled that healing they would keep things consistent and pull it from hitting jungle monsters too. Even ignoring the thought of missing out on jungle monster healing I personally feel it's a comparable scenario.
: > [{quoted}](name=VoraciousX,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xIisA13R,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-10-10T05:13:09.040+0000) > > So wait, it doesn't offer any extra sustain at all? It just speeds up the process of the potion usage? What the hell is the point in that? When you use potions you don't use them for immediate benefits and 40 health isn't enough to be worth an instant pot usage, and if the mana is only "if applicable" then there's nothing to be gained from using the rune except the movement speed. Just remove the rune, or replace it with Ultimate Hunter and make it a passive buff that increases the instant health over time so I can use Ravenous Hunter and Ultimate Hat together again. > > If they're gonna make it a "instant benefit" type rune, they should just make it deliver ALL of it's health immediately. Not just 40. Biscuits already do that. Chug a potion, immediately gain 150 hp (120 with refillable). Yep. Good idea. No way that would be OP. None at all.
Yeah, it wouldn't work like that. If you drank multiple potions, you'd get your second HP boost when the buff from the first potion ran out.
Selegun (NA)
: I would say that hinges on what you value more, the damage or the healing.
There are only a handful of champions who use pets. Removing this interaction only nerfs Morde against them. {{champion:1}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:143}} Meanwhile, buffing his Q damage makes him better across the board against every champion,
: Much like old sion, my drain tanks are slowly dying out.
Remember when Fiddle's W was a useful spell in it of itself, and not just a tool to change your E priority? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Selegun (NA)
: On the off chance the did pull the interaction with pets I wouldn't mind getting that exponential Q damage back as compensation. XP
Nerfing him in such a small number of situations wouldn't justify buffing his Q to the monstrosity it once was.
Saianna (EUNE)
: Tbh i really expected sion vs turret all the time and what did I get? Sion farming for 15 minutes then...................... pushing lane like any other champion. WHAT AN AMAZING STRATEGY BOIS! DID YOU GUYS FIGURE THAT OUT ALONE? :D
You can do that later on, but it's still important to win lane. After watching Scarra and Pants trying the build, they just seem to think it's about ulting into the tower at every available opportunity, even before you have the items you need to actually take the turret
: So maybe now people will realize this game is NOT about KDA, this game is NOT about killing your opponents, this game is about killing 5 towers and a Nexus. Also in the youtube video, Sion is far from inting, he follows the ganks, has good rotations, a close to perfect farm. And once he gave a few kills he isnt worth any money so :) Also the strat is not new, noone remembers that 0-10-0 tryndamere splitpushing and taking your whole base while you kill him again and again ?
The problem isn't that Int Sion is a toxic thing you'll run into on your team. It's fairly good when done right. The problem is that we don't think it should really be possible to 1v1 the towers like that.
Saianna (EUNE)
: this vid is kinda meh for 2 reasons: 1. His team is already snowballing even without his help. The fact he does little for the team shows they'd win it either way, even if just in 4 2. the start you are saying is not all different than tryndamere/nasus splitpushing. Farm untill you puke then either win thanks to your team or lose.
Most videos on the strat are kinda shit. They mimic the items and KDA without bothering to research the nuances of the playstyle that make it actually work.
: aatrox is still good wym
The thing we currently call Aatrox is good. The real Aatrox is dead and gone.
: I main elise though
Doesn't mean she's good. Ever since they replaced the movement speed on runic echoes with mana, she's been sub par.
: Is Irelia a late game champion?
Her power curve is more complicated than that. Early game, she has kill potential if she fights on her own terms but is weak if caught off guard. Mid game, she's a solid teamfighter but isn't an incredible carry yet unless fed. Late game, she's a solid teamfighter with the potential to be a carry. She's strong at level 2, but only in lanes and only if she can stack her passive. Against champions who can punish her for stacking her passive (Pantheon) she can't do much, and she's not strong in jungle fights. Her only other major powerspikes are at level 6 (becomes relevant in teamfights) and Trinity Force (no longer completely reliant on passive for damage). There might be more depending on the matchup (ie you can't truly come online against Malzahar without a QSS) but that's the general curve. Aside from that, her over all power level increases fairly steadily until the late game, at which point her ult provides strong teamfight utility, her passive and Q provide strong damage, and her W remains a strong tool for its mitigation even if its damage has long since fallen off. On the weaker side in the end game, as far as late game champs go, but she's still powerful here.
Kadexe (EUW)
: [She's still good midlane though.](http://na.op.gg/champion/taliyah/statistics/mid) She's just not meta right now, except as a jungler.
She has a 0.44% pick rate in mid. Of course her win rate is high, the only people playing her there are one tricks. She's bad in mid right now because her waveclear is bad. That's all. They made her Q single target, and because of that she lost any semblance of lane priority she once had. She can't shove lane nearly as well as other mages anymore, so she can't roam as much as she wants to. As such, she's been relegated to the Jungle, where the compensation buffs she received are much more important than the AoE removal.
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