: Quick Gameplay Thought: January 24
After 10.3 lands, assuming the targeted R1 successfully reduces Akali’s ability to freely choose fights compared to the free target R1, would reducing the cooldown of the ability be on the table? I think the direction of making the ability targeted is good, but it having a 160 sec CD when it can’t be cast outside 625 range would feel very bad long term.
Jag (NA)
: -The fact that you can stealth semi-permanently is huge. All I can say is, try to play with it and see if you still have that feedback. -Open to the idea of Camo range shrinking, think it's pretty interesting. -Longer vision range is an interesting idea for sure. I'm going to consider that one.
Are you open to Teemo having invisibility while in brush and camouflage outside of it? Also, will his model be updated along with his visuals? His base model and animations are very old and really show their age, especially when compared against Omega Squad. I realize this is basically asking for a VGU, but if you’re already updating the kit and VFX for an old champion, it seems like kind of a waste to not go all the way.
: Actually I believe she just gets cones on her attacks at full stack level 6. They still have to be against someone within 150 or whatever units if I'm not mistaken.
Downvoted for providing correct information...hmm...
Meddler (NA)
: For a couple of years bounty gold was shared across the team. Overall power from bounties was about the same, it lead to less solo carry potential though and a flatter overall experience. Secondary downside was it removed some coordination opportunities (getting champs you most want gold on to claim bounties, targeting enemies who've just cashed in big bounties). We moved back to bounty gold being pretty concentrated on the killer mid last year as a result.
Have you all considered having bounties be calculated individually? I.e. if I’m a top laner and I get ridiculously fed, I wouldn’t see bounties for any of my enemies since I’m ahead of them in gold; however, my teammates that have all individually fallen behind the enemy in gold would see bounties for each enemy specific to them that is relative to their own gold. As for the enemy team, they would all see a bounty on my head since I’m ahead of all of them, but the value would be different for each individual player depending on how far ahead of that specific player I am. Does that make sense?
: What if bounties only increased once combat with champs has ended. Like if you find a rare opportunity to start a fight and get a few kills at the cost of your life, you wouldn't send a bunch of gold over to your killer that same fight. Something I've been thinking about recently.
I’m fairly certain this is already the case.
: Crit Item Explorations Part 2
My feedback: PD - I would replace the additional Brawler's Glove with a Ruby Crystal and add 200 health to the completed item so you can pick up a defensive component while building it. Maybe keep the ghosting passive when within 550 range of enemy champions. Zeal items in general - Very expensive for the stats they give, makes them even more inefficient on their own than they already are. Either increase their stats or reduce their costs. IE/ER - It feels like we're going to go back to the ER build having 4 core items. I would love to see ER gain the IE's unique bonus crit damage passive in order to take IE out of ER's build, while reducing ER's attack damage to compensate so IE still outdamages ER late game. Stormrazor - On that note, Stormrazor still feels bad as an item. It feels like a necessary roadblock you need to get over in order to build the scaling items you actually want to build. If Stormrazor was instead designed to be a complimentary "crit scaler" alongside IE and ER, I think it would feel a lot better. Since IE grants heavy sustained DPS and ER grants utility, I think it would be fitting if Stormrazor granted a short window of a few giant crits and then a long window of very poor DPS in comparison to IE and ER. That would give players a fantasy to opt into when building the item and a reason to keep it late game. 100% Crit - Is 100% crit intended to no longer be the norm? It has the benefit of making marksmen late game DPS more predictable, but it is definitely very strong when 100% crit can be rushed in 3 items (currently, it is achieved in 4 items if Stormrazor is built). Overall I'm a fan of these changes, I would just like to see them taken further. Stormrazor is still a lame item to build, ER build still feels shoehorned into a 4 item core, Zeal items are still incredibly cost inefficient on their own, etc.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 7
Hey Meddler, Regarding the Taliyah Q changes currently on PBE, with the intent of helping out her mid lane performance. Her Q being single target hurts her mid lane a lot more than it affects her jungle. Has it been discussed to give her back AOE on Q with reduced damage to secondary targets so her waveclear isn’t out of control, similar to how Zoe’s Q works? If it has been talked about, what made you decide against it?
: If you need his shield back, how about putting it on his E for every champion he knocks up? Greetings
I’d prefer it if E gave a shield simply on contact with terrain, and maybe a larger shield depending on how many champions Ornn knocks up or how many are nearby (like J4 or Gargoyle Stoneplate). If you miss your knockup then you’re already in a bad position. No need to punish him further than that.
: Rather than slot choices that make pregame more hectic (no one likes the feeling of being stuck with the wrong stats/runes because a change didn't lock in as the timer hit 0), what about implementing a choice done at the start of the game. like "starting elixirs" that provide permanent stat boosts as a one-time purchase? For example, something like "Major Elixir of Attack Speed" or "Minor Elixir of Health" that you get to choose a major and minor from.
: You're spot on. This exact task is actually on our board to do at some point in the future. We're a bit preoccupied with other things right now, but shifting some of the base damage on his passive into ap scaling is definitely a thing we're talking about in the interest of helping out his mid without making his support overbearing.
Holy shit, the amount of vitriol you guys get even when simply addressing a concern is mind boggling. I appreciate you. (>^-^)>
: **6/21/18 Update** First, I want to thank you all for the feedback, especially for you who have had a chance to try him out on the PBE. I'm trying to read it all, even if I don't have time to respond to it all. I'm going to try to summarize the broad themes of feedback I'm hearing from you all, and my brief thoughts: * **"Revert Fizz's W to pre-Assassin Rework"** * We aren't planning on doing this, since we believe that this model isn't particularly healthy, especially with a high AP assassin. While I agree that the deceptive damage and 'whittling-you-down' feeling around the empowered bleed do feel "tricky" and playing into Fizz's nature, we ultimately want to make Fizz's windows of power and burst more clear and consistent to Fizz players and opponents. * **"Make Melee Range Shark Viable/Revert the Shark changes"** * We aren't bringing back the old R, but we intend to make your melee range ult a bit more effective with these changes. In the case where you do land a melee range ult, you can unload your W burst immediately, which should make this case feel more powerful/give you more options. * **"Will this change make Tank or On-Hit Fizz crowd out AP Assassin Fizz?"** * We will be trying to make sure we aren't shifting too much power away from AP Assassin Fizz. You'll notice in some of the changes below we're shifting more power into his AP ratios. * **"His Damage Seems Low"** * From the PBE testing we've seen, we think his damage numbers are around where we intended, but it doesn't feel as impactful, due to the missing health execute damage on the second W. I'm trying an iteration below where we remove this in favor of just flatter damage on his second W. * **"Without the W reset on kill, his laning/farming under turret is going to be terrible"** * We tried some iterations of the new W with this, but they either had really unintuitive interactions or gave him a lot of strong wave-clearing power with no real downtime for his opponents to play around. So we aren't currently planning on adding this back, but want to make sure his laning phase and ability to farm still holds up without it (even if it might be less safe to just farm with it under turret). Below I'm increasing the mana refund on his W, and I'll be looking for other ways to increase his farming ability if we find it insufficient - keep in mind, the second cast is free, so this change will effectively make it mana neutral for him to last hit with it. Here are some changes that will land on PBE tomorrow: * Mana refund on kill with W: 10/14/18/22/26 >>> 15/20/25/30/35 * W2 Damage: 35/50/65/80/95 + 50% AP (+0-100% increased damage based on enemy % health missing) >>> 35/50/65/80/95 + 90% AP Thank you again for your feedback so far. Over the weekend, please give it a shot on the PBE and let me know how it feels. I'll likely have another update like this sometime next week.
What is preventing you from changing the active effect to 3 empowered autos within a short window of time? Give them bonus damage based on missing health, and maybe some bonus attack speed to get the autos off quickly? This seems like it would get some of the “feel” of Fizz’s old empowered autos back while still tightening his burst window opportunity.
Rioter Comments
Aptest (EUW)
: I think you have purposefully miss understood what I was trying to say. Instead of responding on the actual point, you decided to lock on to a manner of speech and regurgitate some pre-cooked talking point designed to color me as a bigot. nice deflection mate, enjoy your pie. P.S. NemeBro: you asked how "normal person be marginalized"? Here is an example.
I mean, labeling non-queer people as "normal" (and by extension making queer people "not" normal) was your first mistake. Anyways, encouraging diversity and representation in an industry that is currently saturated with straight white males is not marginalizing "normal" people.
: [Skin idea] Star Guardian Leona
Wait, is that your concept for Dark Star Orianna? Were you the one that came up with the skin?
: We'll be looking out for this. My expectation is 15 second won't dramatically impact this. We're also not really supporting play patterns that revolve around using comeback experience. That's more of a safety net not expected to be used with frequency (and is quite rarely utilized from the numbers we pulled, granted it was last year and my mind is a bit hazy on the specifics). A potentially more impactful change we're testing out that does matter is that the over-leveled experience penalty has tentatively been removed.
The over-leveled experience penalty? I haven't heard of this, what is it?
: she can't qqr but she can qrq. the difference is, is that it still goes the same distance and costs the same but now your not getting hit with the q before she jumps over the wall since before it would cast its range based on how far you were going to go and not how far you were. So as an enemy what you would see is a star and than zoe but now you see zoe and than the star.
She can still QQR. Test it out in practice tool.
: The problem with QQR is that it undid a lot of the work that we did specifically to make playing against Zoe different than old nidalee --ideally, when she QRQ'd, she would give the enemy some time to react and start to dodge. Part of what made Zoe hard to play in that model is that you would both understand what was happening and both try to dodge/predict her skillshot. It hurt her reliability, essentially. QQR is basically a 1-sided skillcheck where Zoe has to aim/lead it properly. Targets didn't have sufficient time to dodge or react, and that's why we changed it.
Can't Zoe still QQR though? She just has less time to do it. Personally I'd be for removing that mechanic altogether and make the Q cast distance based on her position when she recasts it, not her current position. It makes way more sense and is a lot more readable.
: SPEAKING OF QOLS Can Taliyah q on worked ground when she has enough mana for it but not when she isn't on worked ground? Currently if she has no mana and gets enough for the half cost of a single q she can't cast it until she gets enough mana for the full q despite being on worked ground.
That’s not QoL, that’s a buff. Currently the cost of her Q on Worked Ground is _refunded_, not _reduced_. That’s by design.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 21
While you're looking at Homestart, whichever direction you decide to go with, could you at the very least have the speed buff decay at the end of the buff, even if it's a quick decay? It feels very abrupt and awkward to have such a large movespeed buff just disappear in an instant.
: Regarding Ornn W, I'm hoping that I can provide a bit of some of the reasoning for why we opted to remove it. This wasn't something that was removed trivially as a "oh this guy needs a nerf we should take this away!", and was something that designers on Live Gameplay, Champion, and even off team talked about a ton before making the change. **What we liked about Unstoppable on W:** 1. It provided a satisfying high moment for Ornn when he outsmarted his opponent/s by blocking their cc. 2. It was a unique skill test on a tanks kit that players could master. **What we didn't like:** 1. CC Immunity on a low cd ability meant that windows of engagement were low for his opponents (this may be less of an issue now that the base cd has been increased). 2. You didn't get much in the way of feedback when playing against Ornn when your cc was blocked. At times it could even just feel like a bug, "Why didn't my stun work?" or you just had to accept that a guy walking at you breathing fire was immune to cc (kind of a weird thematic). 3. You were indiscriminately punished for trying to do something to Ornn when he was using his W in most cases. When he used his W, the only realistic counterplay was to not interact with him until the ability/shield/brittle proc had fallen off. You couldn't stop the channel, you couldn't easily sidestep him, he had a shield to soak any of your damage, etc. 4. Unstoppable added another mechanic to an already loaded spell when factoring in the passive. You got damage from the w, damage from the brittle proc, zoning power from brittle even if you didn't proc it, a knockback if you attacked them while brittle, a shield, cc immunity...might be forgetting something. When stacked on top of eachother, it somewhat trivialized the importance of lane phase for Ornn - meaning he was typically able to make it through unscathed, and even if he fell off post lane phase, it meant his opponent had little opportunity to gain or press a lead against him in very the most critical part of the game for them. What it boils down to is that the conversation wasn't about whether the mechanic made Ornn too strong from a performance standpoint, but rather that it led to undesirable gameplay that couldn't really be tuned around or learned. Disclaimer: I'm sure I forgot a plethora of points for both what we liked and what we didn't, but I want to stress that this wasn't a decision that was made lightly. Having a cool mechanic taken away always feels bad, and we try to avoid it as much as possible, but there are some rare times when we believe that it's the right thing to do. There may be a point in time when we can revisit his kit and add some mastery somewhere (or even make his items cooler now that players have more experience with that particular system), but for now he's likely in a reasonable spot for at least some time. What would you guys find cool as a replacement assuming that you couldn't get unstoppable back on his W?
> **P - Temper:** **_Enemies that are movement impaired by Ornn are made Brittle for 3 seconds after a 1 second delay._** These enemies take bonus magic damage the next time they are immobilized by Ornn or his allies. Ornn's basic attacks against Brittle enemies briefly knock them back. > > **Q - Volcanic Rupture:** Ornn slams his hammer into the ground, sending a fissure in the target direction that stops early if an enemy champion is hit, dealing physical damage and slowing enemies hit **(applies Brittle)**. > > After a 1.5 second delay, an impassable magma pillar erupts at maximum range for 4 seconds. > > **W - Bellow's Breath:** Ornn shields himself for 12% of his maximum health for 3.5 seconds and marches in the target direction over the next **1.25 seconds (from 0.75).** **Ornn is Unstoppable for the duration of the march.** > > Over the march he belches fire over a cone in front of him, **dealing 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 / 9% of target's maximum health (from 12 / 13 / 14 / 15 / 16%)** over the duration to enemies in the AoE. **This damage is doubled against Brittle enemies.** > > **E - Searing Charge:** Ornn charges forward, dealing physical damage to enemies he passes through. Upon colliding with terrain, the dash stops and creates a shockwave, knocking up nearby enemies **(applies Brittle)**. > > Magma pillars and terrain created by enemy champions caught in the shockwave are destroyed. > > **R - Call of the Forge God:** First Cast: Ornn summons an elemental at maximum range in the target direction that stampedes toward him, dealing magic damage and slowing enemies hit **(applies Brittle)**. > > While stampeding, Ornn can re-activate Call of the Forge God. > > Second Cast: Ornn dashes forward in the target direction. If Ornn collides with the elemental, he headbutts it, sending it stampeding again in the new direction and empowering it to knock up enemies hit **(applies Brittle)**. Call of the Forge God can damage enemies twice. Voila. Ornn now has more reliable damage (reduces performance variation between skill levels) and has Unstoppable on W, but also has more counterplay.
: > what do you mean going away from the phantom hit thing? no more double on hit mechanic? Yes, I'm considering that. > while i do agree is badly done Sorry, what's poorly done? The post itself or something about the Rageblade? Want to make sure I'm understanding.
Do you think Phantom Hit as “do on-hit damage 50% more often” is a healthy mechanic to keep in the game? If so, do you think it would fit on Lethal Tempo, replacing the attack speed boost? As in, “1.5 seconds after your first attack on an enemy champion, acquire Phantom Hit until out of combat.” Meddler mentioned a bit ago that they were looking into Lethal Tempo to differentiate its playstyle a bit more from PtA. I don’t know how well this would accomplish that, but it could be worth looking into if you want to remove Phantom Hit from Guinsoo’s.
: No, you just have no clue about how upvotes are supposed to work. Upvotes and downvotes are NOT feedback. Downvotes are supposed to be a way to identify useless posts/things that are far from constructive discussion. Downvoting something you don't like, even though it is reasonable, cannot be considered feedback, period.
Especially because a downvote hides the comment, so other people can't initially see it. Downvoting is the worst way of providing "feedback" lol.
: Jesus, you're a monster dude. Downvoted.
*provides a reasonable answer to a question and assures that the ability will be tuned as necessary* **DOWNVOTED**
RJ1542 (NA)
: getting your 8th skin after 7.5 years of existence is fair lol
: We need a solution to the state of shielding in the game for sure. Whether that's shield popper, less shielding, less powerful shielding, shield mitigation, extra damage to shield, or a mix of several, we do need a solution.
What about Grievous Wounds? Since Heal and Shield Power is already a thing, why couldn’t Grievous Wounds affect both? Granted, I’m not convinced Grievous Wounds should be in the game at all since it throws balance out of whack, but it could be a temporary solution.
Meddler (NA)
: Figuring details of how to put some power back into Zoe at the moment. As suspected she's in a pretty weak spot right now, we did think it was better to deal with a lot of things at once, and then add some power back though, rather than trying to both figure out what needed to be removed and how much power needed to go back in at once.
Changing the way her Q recasts so it depends on her casting position versus her current position could help her feel more fair and allow you to buff her reliable damage so she's less polarizing between skill levels. For example, currently Zoe can ult into vision just long enough to have the Q hit, giving opponents less time to react to the projectile. If her Q recast depended on her recast position instead of her current position, that would give opponents more room to react because they would actually see the Q recast animation (versus her popping into vision for a split second and being blasted from orbit).
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: > Attack Speed's still arguably too much of a barrier there for many mages though Why not just make the stats from rune trees adaptive? I mean if you are AD you get attack speed and some AD(70%-30%), if you are AP you get AP and no AS( or potentially some AS like 80-20) ? This way AS wouldnt gate mages to use whatever they fit them better and AD champs would still get what they want from precision, or there could be a little check box whether they want split stats or not?
Adaptive CDR instead of Attack Speed to support DPS play styles for mages?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 9
Regarding Zoe: 1. Why not make her more reliant on E to one shot by making the amplified damage cap higher? That would give you room to nerf Q’s damage while still allowing her to burst. 2. Why does Q apply her passive damage at all? That seems superfluous and reduces the need for her to commit to a one shot by eliminating the need to auto when she’s far enough ahead. Currently she can pop into range just long enough for her Q to hit. If she was required to ult into range long enough to auto to apply her passive, we might see less ridiculous “Q only one shots”.
: he would not hurt tanks because he wouldn't have any good pen effects.
That’s true. Maybe a profile of 75:25 would be better so he doesn’t feel as bad about building Last Whisper? Edit: For comparison, Ezreal’s profile is about 70:30 and his builds frequently include Last Whisper items.
: So make him Corki?
Corki’s damage profile is like 10:90 physical vs magic. I’m suggesting to make Lucian’s damage profile something like 60:40 physical vs magic.
: What isn't carved out for him now? He's the most insanely fun to play ADC we have.
Currently he’s just the BEST marksman whenever his numbers are good. He doesn’t really have a strategic niche.
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 2
Regarding Lethal Tempo, since it’s play pattern overlaps quite a bit with Press the Attack, have you considered: 1. Scrapping the keystone altogether and replacing it with a sustained spell damage keystone, and then 2. Changing the Precision set bonus from just attack speed to an adaptive bonus between attack speed and CDR?
Cosnirak (NA)
: >When i said "stronger motivator," i meant more like "what kind of motivation is the strongest for this story," not "what's the strongest emotion there is." That's exactly what I thought you said, no confusion there. I just completely disagree because my entire life experience and all major media I've seen suggests otherwise. I completely agree that romantic love works fine in the story and makes complete sense. But I don't think it's by any means a "stronger motivator for this story." I can see it making for a more 'poetic' ending with all 3 combined because if it were father and son sharing a body with a darkin that could be kind of creepy. But that's not a stronger motivator for the character to go down that path, that's a stronger motivator for the author (and probably to most of the audience's benefit, which means it's a fine choice).
I think what DyQuill is getting at (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the motivator in Val and Kai's story is almost selfish, versus the selflessness of a father/son story. Val was unable to accept the thought of experiencing life without Kai (the sacrificial action was focused on being able to continue their heartlight relationship in life _together_), versus a father being unable to accept the thought of his son not experiencing life for himself (the sacrificial action would be focused on the son being able to continue living his life _at the expense of the father's_). Both are strong and valid motivators in different contexts, and I don't think it's fair or accurate to say that one is always stronger than the other based solely on personal experience (especially when there are plenty of examples available for both sides).
: No his q is cleaver his E is that masochist thing where he gets more AD and it resets his auto. Please don't comment if you dont know for sure
He was talking about Rengar, not Mundo.
Sparkle (NA)
: Hm, I dunno if we've said this publicly or not before but we do plan to grow & change the current runes system more than we have in the past with the old runes & masteries. This could include the addition, removal or reworking of slots, Path bonuses or individual runes and even the possibility of adding new Paths. I don't know that the specific goal of "4 keystones in every tree" is the right one necessarily, but the core of your post (making sure there's enough keystone coverage for the huge variety of champions in League) is one that I agree with and the Runes team is hyper aware of.
Quick question: Why did y'all decide to put Presence of Mind in the Precision tree instead of the Sorcery tree? Sorcery: "Empowered abilities and **resource manipulation**." It's fine if you don't know the answer, I just don't know who to ask and I've wondered this since Runes Reforged was introduced. Happy Holidays! Hope your break is relaxing! :)
P3PI (EUW)
: Feature/Suggestion Name: Champion Custom Keybindings Opportunity/Problem Statement: I would like to have different key bindings for different champions. As a main Bard and main Morgana who uses alt+key for both self cast and ability indicator (not sure of the name, used to see the range of an ability), I would like having alt+w for self cast on Bard and alt+w for indicator on Morgana. Same issue comes with Morgan's and Zoe's E (self casts and indicator) and many other times I miss it. Brief Description: Be able to save a custom keybinding for an specific champion. Not necessary for every champion, but just a few (3-5). Target Audience: Anyone who like me uses the same keys for different things (yeah, I already tried changing keys but can't get used to it).
I literally just posted this too without seeing yours - RIP.
: Feature/QoL change/Idea Generator for 2018 and beyond!
**Feature/Suggestion Name:** Champion Specific Keybindings **Opportunity/Problem Statement:** I normally play with Quick Cast, but when I play a champ with a vector-cast spell or a spell that has precise ranges I prefer to use Normal Cast. This requires me to manually change my keybindings each time I switch to or from this champ. If I ever forget to do so, I'll end up casting a spell I thought was on Quick Cast when it's actually on Normal Cast (or vice versa) and it really screws up my gameplay. **Brief Description:** It would be really helpful if individualized keybindings could be set up for specific champions (i.e. whenever I play Taliyah, my W is automatically set to Normal Cast, for other champions my W is set to Quick Cast). Think Overwatch hero bindings. **Target Audience:** Anyone that uses various bindings or cast styles for different champs!
: From my understanding, LoL is the only moba which doesn't have this implemented into their gameplay. I know for a fact Infinite Crisis had it, I believe I heard somebody say Smite has it & DotA probably has it too. Mind you, I don't really play mobas, so I'm hearing this 2nd-hand. You're suggesting something that has been brought to Rito's attention dozens of times over the years. Essentially, this is what the patch 3.14 Support Class Update SHOULD HAVE looked like, but Rito in their misguidedness thought they good make AP "dual-purpose," increasing both utility AND damage. They thought by nerfing support's damage scalings, they could give them the best of both worlds. Be able to buy a Deathcap to simultaneously increase Pix' damage, Polymorph's duration and Help, Pix!' shield strength. That was one of the biggest mistakes in this game's history, which admittedly doesn't say much due to the massive number of biggest mistakes that are associated with LoL's name.
I wouldn't say they were misguided. I doubt they had the resources at the time to fully commit to creating an entire stat system, which includes new items, ability adjustments on all relevant champions, and then further balancing of the entire system. It's totally reasonable why they chose to use an existing stat system to amplify support kits that solved a short term problem - there's no denying that enchanters have more power now than they did a few seasons ago. I'm just wondering what is preventing them today from allocating resources to create a new stat system that's devoted to utility. What they did in the past is irrelevant.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 8
Regarding Enchanters: What has prevented you from creating a stat that amplifies an Enchanter's entire kit, rather than only their heals and shields? I.e. ally buffs, CC duration, etc. including heals and shields could be amplified by a single new stat. Individual champs and their ability ratios could be balanced around this stat.
: Nah, it's fair. The new players get those 450BE champs instead of shards worth roughly the same amount. It's not really an advantage at all. We're just putting the noob accounts on rails by giving them easier-to-learn champions.
: AP Itemisation Context #2
My thoughts on Strategy Two: AP/Mana users fall into three main paradigms based on champ and/or playstyle: **Burst**, **Poke**, and **DPS**. All three paradigms use mana differently, so there should be different items that address the needs of each while accentuating the strengths of that paradigm. Below are some different ideas for items that attempt various ways at covering these specific mana needs. _All items have mana, I'm simply listing the main differences between the items._ ___ **BURST:** Wants to unload all spells at once on a primary target. No real need for CDR to accomplish their task. Doesn't need consistent mana restoration the way other paradigms do. {{item:3165}} high AP (100-120ish), no CDR, %mana restored on kill with a short CD. High AP to kill a priority target, get mana back on kill, rinse repeat to do again shortly. Mana restore doesn't support extended spell casting or trading patterns. _OR_ {{item:3030}} high AP and burst, no CDR, health, Eternity passive (or maybe %mana on kill here as well). Could be an option if you want health as a mid-range burst mage (I'm not completely sold on the stats and passives for this iteration, though). ___ **POKE:** Wants to chip away at health bars over time. Needs a bit of CDR to function properly. Needs some form of mana restoration to poke effectively. {{item:3285}} moderate AP (80-100ish), 10% CDR, mana restored on passive proc _on champions_. Mid-lane version of Runic Echoes. User is rewarded for landing spells on enemies, while enemies have counterplay by avoiding Luden's procs to eventually make them go oom. Lower AP is less effective for full burst champions, and mana restoration isn't as effective when spamming spells in quick succession. _OR_ {{item:3003}} with {{item:3151}} burn passive added. Moderate AP, 10% CDR, mana restored based on %current hp damage (most effective for poking). ___ **DPS:** Wants to be in the thick of the fight dealing damage. Relies more on spell cooldowns and base damage to pump out DPS. Needs a lot of mana restoration to cast spells until the enemy is dead. {{item:3027}} low AP (60-80ish, scales to 80-100ish), 10% CDR that scales to 20% CDR, scaling health, Eternity passive or mana restored based on dealing damage (capped?). Scaling item for late game DPS mages. Gives the most CDR at the cost of being a weaker item early game. Also gives health so the champion is tanky enough to live longer and deal DPS since they're most likely mid/low range. Mana restored based on dealing damage is better for low cost, spammable spells but less effective on high cost spells that burst and poke champions have. ___ Those are my initial thoughts. I have no idea if those items are broken or trash, how they affect niche cases of champions, or what components or additional passives they would have. I'm mainly thinking of how the final items, their stats and their mana restoration effects, cater to the different paradigms of AP/mana users and their specific ways of using mana. I could be completely off base, but hopefully not. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: > [{quoted}](name=B0OM,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Oif4op6N,comment-id=00020003,timestamp=2017-07-11T13:10:18.736+0000) > > Was the chanting on the login theme influenced by Eskimo throat singing at all, or is the similarity in sound just coincidental? Ha! Great question. I had a really nasty cold during the making of Kayn's music. At some point during the writing of the piece, I started singing a bass line to myself, and the sound that came out felt really fitting. That (unusually raspy) tone reminded me of katajjaq, the Inuit throat singing. I must have been 15 when, for the first time, I hear that stuff. A track was on a compilation album from a French ethnomusicology research center, and that sound remained seared in my memory ever since. Good catch!
Sorry for the late reply, but that's really cool! I'm part Inuit myself (btw, good on you for using the native term - I really appreciate that), so it's really cool to hear someone be inspired by a lesser known aspect of the Inuit culture, something that isn't igloos or parkas. :)
: Hey guys - I'm actually not sure _when_ it's coming, but it IS coming :)
Was the chanting on the login theme influenced by Eskimo throat singing at all, or is the similarity in sound just coincidental?
: Sivir requires new passive. 500 range? AYKM? Just go afk against Cait/Karma.
Laxfan52 (NA)
: Are you saying it would be a passive part of her ult? If it was a passive part of her ult that works just like how it works now, i would like it. It would make her pre 6 power lower, but would keep her late game strong.
Yes exactly :) Obviously the numbers would need to be tuned on all of her skills and especially the ult procs. But I think that she would have more clear windows of power and skill expression, rather than just smacking Vitals whenever they come up. Disclaimer: I'm not saying Fiora is easy to play, quite the contrary actually. But there comes a point in the game where if you play her optimally, there is no reason that you should ever lose a 1v1 late game and that fact removes a lot of agency from enemy players in that situation. Fiora should be the premier 1v1 duelist late game, but she should still have exploitable windows of power which I don't think are really present currently. Edit: Vitals wouldn't pop up passively, though. They would only appear on ult activation, just like they do on live. True damage procs would be much, much larger to compensate for having only 4 Vitals available.
: Fiora is really meant to keep the tanks on their toes. In this case it does mean she is powerful against an unprepared champion. I do enjoy her playability though.
She would still be just as good against tanks. I'm talking crazy high true dmg numbers on the ult Vitals, like 17.5-20% hp per proc. Edit: At level 16, of course. Those numbers would be insane at level 6 lol.
: Fiora's vital passive is what let's her bring down tanks, and if you take that away from her, you'd be taking away one of the hallmarks of the Skirmisher class. Thus, removing her passive, as it stands, means you have to add another ability with a similar function. Fiora needs to be a damage threat to everyone or else she'd be basically pointless.
It wouldn't be removed though, just shifted to her ult only with MUCH larger % numbers per Vital.
Rioter Comments
: > Riot failed when they did a rework on adcs. They took a decent approach with some of them, like Corki/Ezrealby giving abilities that his has to constantly land to keep up his sustain damage. Others like Cait just enforced that horrible decision. Riot doesn't seem to ackowledge bad design decisions They actually succeeded with pretty much all carries. There's now effectively a niche for almost^ every Marksmen, something that barely existed before. {{champion:22}} Permaslow Queen {{champion:51}} Long distance siege warfare {{champion:42}} The magic damage ADC plus bombardier {{champion:119}} Position, damage, DRAVEN^ {{champion:81}} Weave magical abilities in between auto-attacks {{champion:104}} Shotgun plus tanky ADC {{champion:202}} 4 shots, extreme range, sniper {{champion:222}} Go from extreme speed to extreme range and damage^ {{champion:429}} Hop-attacking, ally bonding {{champion:10}} Hybrid damage, immunity for brief duration {{champion:203}} The jungling ADC, prevents death, constantly gains power {{champion:96}} The long-ranged acid spitter that shreds all {{champion:236}} Double-pistol Obama, drive-by shooting {{champion:21}} Use your enemies minions to hurt them, huge AoE ult {{champion:133}} BIRD {{champion:15}} Waveclear extraordinaire, AoE movement speed {{champion:18}} Constant explosions and focused fire at increasing range^ {{champion:29}} The stealth ADC, hides and then uses a brief burst of power to nuke down enemy teams {{champion:110}} Long ranged poke, ult that spreads CC to everyone {{champion:67}} The hunter, the ultimate 1v1 machine that kills all equally ^Somewhat bland kit. The Class Update was a step in the direction- nobody insisted it would solve every problem. I frankly don't know what Xayah's niche is but you get the idea. There's (in theory) a reason to pick any one of them. The problem is when one power is too much that it overshadows what the others bring to the table.
Xayah imo is a zone control ADC that's very dependent on positioning. She controls chokes super well and utilizes superior positioning to capitalize on enemy mispositioning.
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B0OM

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