: I'm old and it's getting harder and harder to keep up
Age doesn't really matter. We're all having a difficult time adjusting to the obscene amounts of damage that new champions put out in a short period of time. Even professional league players comment on it frequently. Nobody can keep up with the amount of burst damage that is going around. The champions you pick matter more than it ever has before, and skill doesn't matter as much. I'm sure if you played one of those champions you'd do just as well. Riot is trying to appeal to a younger generation who have grown up with get in and get out type of games like Fortnite. The Chinese market is only getting bigger as well, and many there generally prefer faster games too. It sucks because it feels like we're sacrificing the strategy part of this game and are being forced into a stricter meta each season. I'm a support main and I struggled this season to hang on playing as enchanters where as before I never had too much of an issue. This is the first season where assassins consistently were able to bypass me and one shot my carry without me or them being able to react. If they messed up, normally in other seasons we could punish them, but with items like Zhonyas, abilities with invisibility, the dashes, and self-healing they could either turn the fight around anyways or get out without a scratch on them. I don't play tank supports anymore, but I think it says a lot that the tank supports that aren't viable are tanks like Braum and Alistar and the ones that are is a tank like Nautilus who's hook hitbox is somehow worse than Morgana's Q. You can't really tank damage in the same way that enchanters can't always heal damage or shield it.
: Yuumi changes
These changes are in the right direction, but her design is still fundamentally flawed and at some point they're going to stop trying to save the design and just make her more interactive overall. There's a lot more they can do with Yuumi, but any significant changes can't happen because she's way too safe and easy to play. My problem with Yuumi is she's a caricature of what so many low ELO players think enchanters are. I'm an enchanter main, and I despised Yuumi's design. Part of being an enchanter is risking yourself considerably in order to buff your team and provide utility. You have to learn macro play and guide the flow of the fight, and you're a top priority target because of it. Yuumi had no risk to herself while being a powerful enchanter. Yuumi's hardly alone in the poor design category as of late. Every champion they release tries to eliminate the weakness of the class their in and it just creates a headache for everyone.
: My own take on "Riot's Rank Punishment System." Hope you agree.
The only issue I see is that Riot's client is kind of the elephant in the room that they're not addressing. I have no sympathy for people suffering from internet issues. If you don't have reliable internet, and you know that, then you're making a selfish choice to ruin the game for others. There's normals for a reason. Go play it. Competitive is not for you. However, a lot of people genuinely DC due to client issues. It was a major problem in this past season. People either would not connect at all, or they'd realize that the tiny indicator at the top left corner of the screen froze 2-3 minutes too late. After that the game could already be heavily in the other team's favor, especially if the people that didn't connect are in bot lane or jungle. Before they implement stricter punishments, they first need to address that their client is subpar to put it mildly.
Thilmer (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Baby Ghoul,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YL6bpilf,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-12-01T02:37:42.019+0000) > > > > It's the same problem as with Yuumi. You can't completely erase a champion classes' weaknesses. It just doesn't work out. > > You know something that pisses me off inmensely? Sona got nerfed hard for "being too easy and having too much utility", and a couple years later they make Yuumi, a support so easy that looks like a bot and half the time is immune to everything because she is like an extra ítem for the ADC... can we revert Sona nerfs already if this bullshit cat is here to stay?
> [{quoted}](name=Thilmer,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YL6bpilf,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-12-01T14:40:26.647+0000) > > You know something that pisses me off inmensely? Sona got nerfed hard for "being too easy and having too much utility", and a couple years later they make Yuumi, a support so easy that looks like a bot and half the time is immune to everything because she is like an extra ítem for the ADC... can we revert Sona nerfs already if this bullshit cat is here to stay? https://i.imgur.com/HsgLvXc.png
: I'll out heal Soraka with Nami all day. U cant heal as fast as soraka, but u can heal alot more than her and you dont lose health while ure at it. Unless u count Sorakas ult.. then it gg. But you should be dead with all of Nami's tricks even with Raka's ult. IMO Nami > Raka for heal supp.
> [{quoted}](name=SaltyNutz333,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YL6bpilf,comment-id=00060002,timestamp=2019-12-01T17:37:03.799+0000) > > I'll out heal Soraka with Nami all day. > > U cant heal as fast as soraka, but u can heal alot more than her and you dont lose health while ure at it. > > Unless u count Sorakas ult.. then it gg. But you should be dead with all of Nami's tricks even with Raka's ult. > > IMO Nami > Raka for heal supp. Some of the things you guys post are scary. If you're healing more on Nami than you are Soraka, then you're playing Soraka wrong.
Mártir (EUW)
: You realize Yuumi has a 38-41% WR (Depending which page you visit) in ALL Elos?
> [{quoted}](name=Mártir,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fisYzc2T,comment-id=000400000003,timestamp=2019-12-01T22:51:23.140+0000) > > You realize Yuumi has a 38-41% WR (Depending which page you visit) in ALL Elos? Yes I do, that's why I said Yuumi is permanerfed and the reason she's permanerfed is because a straight buff can't fix a flawed design. Enchanters need to interact. They can't sit on their teammate and be safe while being a powerful utility support.
: A damage oriented support dealt damage? Weird.
> [{quoted}](name=Is So Chill,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qo0RiyBQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-01T07:00:51.640+0000) > > A damage oriented support dealt damage? > > Weird. Except she's not just damage-oriented. She's utility-oriented too. So she's doing healing while doing that damage, but I guess you aren't ready to talk about that just yet.
: The real problem with Senna ADC is her SUPPORTS.
Both can be correct, especially in this meta. Nautilus and Leona are broken right now, but again, that doesn't excuse Senna's absurd levels of damage and utility. ADC Senna is a major problem, and she's mostly only viable with Nautilus and Leona, but support Senna is also a problem right now and yes her numbers do need to be toned down.
: I got auto filled Jungle 2 games in a row
Play support. I've never once been autofilled.
: As a 600k Soraka main the very existence of Senna is just a slap in the face
I'm close to 1 mill points on Soraka and have been playing her since season 5, and I agree with most of what you said. I'd be fine with Senna if she didn't do as much damage. I love the utility Senna brings to the table. I don't want that touched. I want her damage nerfed. Senna's heals aren't as good as Soraka's, but that's a stupid defense because _nobody's_ heals are better than Soraka's. Her whole champion identity is healing, so I would HOPE that nobody's heals are better than Soraka's. For the love of God, don't give the design team any more bad ideas you guys. The issue is that Senna's heals aren't far off from Soraka's, while she's doing an insane amount of damage. It's the same problem as with Yuumi. You can't completely erase a champion classes' weaknesses. It just doesn't work out. Enchanters are vulnerable and don't do a lot of damage. That's their trade off for having high levels of utility. When you give them no interaction like with Yuumi, they're broken. When you give them damage like with Senna, they're broken. It's not a difficult concept to understand but one Riot seems to always be pushing against lately. They don't know how to create enchanters anymore. In my opinion Senna can be saved. She doesn't need to be permanerfed like Yuumi or permabanned like Pyke. If they just tone down her damage, she could do fine, but then that takes us into the bigger issue that we're all kneecapped as supports now thanks to the items changes that were created because of mage supremacy developing bot lane.
: Senna NEEDS to be given a HARSH choice. DAMAGE or UTILITY.
It sucks because Senna can be balanced, but I don't trust Riot to nerf the right things. All recent champions have the same problem. Class no longer means anything because everything blends in to one another. Assassins used to have a small window to trade and if they messed up or got caught, then they'd be instantly deleted. Now they have so much self-healing, mobility, and invisibility that a mistake isn't punished and they can prolong fights way longer than someone who is a bruiser. Look at Ekko and Akali who both extend fights to an absurd level and then have a get out of jail free card when they screw up. Enchanters provide the most utility and healing/shielding to the team. Therefore they're high priority targets, but they can't defend themselves with damage and they're quite squishy. That's the trade off. Now look at Yuumi and Senna. Yuumi had zero interaction as well as an impressive poke. She did not have to risk herself to have the power of an enchanter and she could out poke most mage supports before the nerfs. Now she's bad and Riot can't buff her. Senna is immobile and vulnerable, but she does as much damage as an ADC and heals as much as an enchanter. She's the best of both worlds. We could go on and on for engagers like Pyke or ADCs like Kai'sa. Champions like Yuumi, Pyke, Kai'sa, Ekko, and Akali clearly need to be reworked because simple buffs and nerfs don't fix broken kits, but I think Senna could be saved if they nerf her damage. The idea of a support that heals with her massive gun is so cool, but they're doing it all wrong.
: {{champion:350}} is not a problem even remotely. If anything she needs a buff. (along with {{champion:37}} and {{champion:267}} who have started to fall behind because of the hyper damage/CC creep). I am VERY glad when the enemy support is a Yuumi, Sona or Nami. It means I can destroy their lane easily. {{champion:235}} is different, but you can easily play around her. I dont shake in my boots when i see a Senna opponent at all. To be quite frank, people need to learn how to play around her kit. She is not that hard to beat. {{champion:555}} is cancer of course. THAT design is toxic AF. I am a bit worried about people complaining about Yuumi or Senna in the Forums because that simply reduces the credibility of the forum. The only Supports that people should be complaining about are {{champion:555}} , {{champion:111}} , and {{champion:53}} Each time they get lucky and their hook connects during laning is basically an automatic kill (assuming competent players). Those Supports are genuinely toxic and need changing.
No Yuumi does not need a buff. If anything she needs a rework to make her more interactive because in her current state she can't be simply buffed because she provides no interaction. Yuumi is actually the perfect example with what's wrong with Riot's recent design philosophy. They completely eliminate or minimize a class of champions' weaknesses. Yuumi is an enchanter, and they don't do damage and are quite vulnerable. That's their trade off for the healing/shielding and utility they bring to fights. Yuumi got to be a top tier enchanter, while not being vulnerable and having an oppressive poke. She wasn't permabanned by professionals and high ELO players for no reason. Actually, she was banned quite a bit by those of us in other ELOs. I'm saying all this as an enchanter support main too. Senna is another example of them removing a champions weakness, except instead of giving her zero interaction like Yuumi, they decided to load her with damage. So now she's putting out an insane amount of damage while healing as much as an enchanter does. Obviously that's broken, especially because she has a massive range. The reason why I'm not as upset about Senna as I was about Yuumi and Pyke is because at least she's immobile and vulnerable to the same broken Nautilus hitbox as the rest of us. Her design has the potential to be balanced, but right now it's not and that's not unique for new champions. Obviously she needs nerfs though. The problem with Senna is that when her damage is nerfed, and it's going to be after a few patches of us shouting at Riot, she's going to be in the same spots as the rest of supports who were kneecapped because they didn't take into consideration what would happen botlane when they abruptly removed Sightstone due to solo laners in pro play abusing it. We got mage supremacy that progressively got worse and worse, and now their solution to that is to nuke our entire role. The only champions that have a bunker are ones that are broken and dodging nerfs like Senna, Pyke, and Nautilus. As for Pyke, yeah, God just delete him Riot. I'm glad that's one thing we can all agree on. And we do complain about Nautilus and Blitzcrank. Nautilus is so broken right now and personally my must ban for bot lane, and I have no idea what the design team was thinking when they randomly gave Blitzcrank a Q range buff, but that does not excuse Yuumi or Senna.
: Is Senna really broken?
She's not broken as an ADC, and that's why she's not being played as much there. Her AA animation is far too slow to compete with most marksmen or replace one on a team. The reason she's a problem is because she does a lot of damage during team fights and skirmishes, but is allowed to heal an absurd amount like an enchanter. Obviously those two things can't exist at the same ratio because it's not fair I wouldn't say she's broken. She dies to a broken Nautilus hitbox just like the rest of us. If they toned down her damage, I think she'd be a healthy champion, but that's what makes her powerful right now, especially because support itemization is so terrible. Previously I probably would have said she was broken, but I've been permabanning Pyke throughout season 9, and the only time I stopped doing that was when Yuumi was released and allowed to have no weaknesses. So keep in mind I'm judging it by the absurd meta we're in today and I've got about 3 other supports I'm picking to ban before her. {{champion:111}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:89}}
oOHiram (NA)
: Support and their items are fine
Why should anyone take you seriously. You're not even posting on your main account. I'm sure these support changes would be fine for someone who doesn't play support or ADC. If you don't play that role and can't come up with an argument then yeah, your opinion is going to be unpopular.
: Can we please just skip the part where we have broken support items for another 2 years?
Truer words have not been spoken on here in a while. The support role has always been an after thought for the balance team. The whole removal of Sightstone is proof enough of that. Solo laners in pro play were abusing it, therefore we don't get to have it anymore. They removed Sightstone and gave us the quest system, but it created a mage problem we've been suffering through for so long. Mages could mindlessly spam spells bot and thanks to damage creep it progressively got worse. Before they couldn't always do that because first back for the majority of supports was a Sightstone which offered +150 health. Mage supports either had to make a play before the first back, or make a risky choice between buying more damage or having a safe laning phase. After the quest system they didn't have to make a choice because we were all at risk bot lane due to lack of vision and they could immediately start building damage while on a path to wards. The enemy support wouldn't have extra health to counter them either. This new system that nukes support income seems designed specifically to target mage supremacy that was developing bot. I mean, we even had double mages towards the end of season 9. Even the mage players were starting to admit it was getting a little ridiculous. Now we're all kneecapped unless we have one of Riot's nifty new champion kits. That's not how the problem should be solved. I personally don't know how much more I can take as support. It wasn't fun dealing with mages and the constant ganks. I don't even want to think about how we had to ban Pyke for the whole season, and the only time we had to stop was because Yuumi was released and literally had no weakness. Now we have Senna who is putting out as much damage as an ADC while healing like she's an enchanter. The solution is simple, nerf her damage, but then she's going to have the same problem the rest of the supports have besides Pyke. I'm pretty sure they would have completely ignored Yuumi if she wasn't a must-ban during pro-play earlier this year and just trash talked ad nauseam by high elo streamers. They're trying to look the other way with Senna hoping she'll just be something we "put up" with Pyke. We're in this awkward spot where Riot clearly is creating a new class of champions where the old rules don't apply. If they want to go down a new road, then why not try support-only items? We can only go up from where we are right now and I want to avoid having to switch between banning Pyke and Senna with my ADC only to get hit with a Nautilus hook that completely missed us. {{sticker:sg-lulu}} Please don't give us that season 10 Riot. I know that people are like, "but who would get to decide who is a support?" Personally, after season 9, I'm willing to sacrifice some snowflakes to avoid another whole year of the BS we had to put up with in bot lane. The majority of those that land in the grey area directly contribute to the problem anyways.
: Can we make Zyra more into a mid laner please
_**Yes, and take the other mages with you.**_ That's high on every support and ADC's wishlist along with fixing broken hook hitboxes. Zyra has been problematic even before Riot deleted Sightstone and mages became the hot new thing botlane. She's made such an impact bot lane, that people still play MF support randomly with no purpose in solo queue. The history of Zyra in bot lane is nutty. Obviously she'd need some changes first, but that's not her only problem. The issue is that playing mages bot lane is much better than playing them mid lane currently, so I don't know why you'd want to go there when you can be a brainless mage bot, but I agree nevertheless. Get mages out of bot lane and it would make things so much better.
: Honest opinion from a 710 059 mastery diana main on her upcoming rework
It's definitely a step down from where she was at because people played Diana like an assassin, and assassins are at the top of the meta right now. Their items grant them so much survival time already. I don't know why they're putting this much work into reworking a champion that is just going to flounder in this current meta. There's just not really a reason for a bruiser when assassins can still do assassin damage, but then prolong fights by self-healing, mobility, etc. The bruiser class doesn't really have a place in this game anymore. Not because they're bad, but because, well, why not be an assassin? There's no downsides to being one, especially in solo queue.
Dolfro (EUNE)
: Unless you revert username change, i'm not gonna log-in into this garbage game.
They should have explained why, but I mean, nobody is ever going to see your account name, so it doesn't really matter to me. I just changed it and moved on.
: Why is this character so hard to like?
There's a lot of one-dimensional cookie cutter characters in the Marvel Universe, especially the MCU. It is pandering. However, you could argue the same for so many other characters in the other direction, but we don't because such agendas are low hanging fruit in a lot of gaming and comic book circles where SJW conspiracy theories run rampant. Personally, I think comic books should take more risks when creating female characters because there is so much emphasis placed on being "likable" for them. Likability isn't always important. I don't care if I always agree with someone's opinion or their actions. A character with depth is so much more interesting to read about. With a lot of characters like Danvers it feels like you're never given a moment to breathe and truly get to know the character because they're created to symbolize something bigger, and larger than life figures are not relatable because human beings have flaws. Danvers is created to be a role model, and if you're an adult, that's going to be less appealing to you. But if you wear your politics on your sleeve, then you're either going to love her or hate her depending on where you fall.
: Champion you have too many skins for but don't play
{{champion:1}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:20}}
: Good god, give the creator of Dusk/Dawnbringer Soraka a raise
My second favorite part about this skin is how mad a few people get that Soraka is out here winning. That's jealousy luv. {{sticker:katarina-love}}
: Unpopular opinion: League sucks, but TFT is amazing
Upvoted, not because TFT is good though. It's bad and I hate it, but because **_finally_**, a true unpopular opinion. Most of them this year have been like, "Unpopular Opinion: I hate Pyke!" {{sticker:sg-lulu}}
: I just realized I can look up all kinds of statistics and graphs for every region except China.
I've wondered about that before too, but a lot of Chinese players are on NA anyways. Half of my games have at least one person typing in Chinese, so I can't imagine their meta is significantly different like it is in South Korea. I always assumed it would just be like looking up EUW stats.
: Botlane win rates....
I think it says more about how you need to factor in pick rate and not just win rate...
Neriticc (EUW)
: Who actually thought the Elder Dragon execute is a good idea?
The scary part isn't that someone brainstormed this idea, it's that multiple people signed off on it. That indicates that their team has a massive blind spot.
: I think we can all agree season 9 was the worst season to ever exist
I've been playing support and top lane since season 4, and this was definitely the worst season for those two lanes. I can't recall a worse season to be playing either of those roles. Maybe mid laners and junglers feel differently, but I'm firmly in the camp that this was the worst season, and I've endured some crappy metas. I didn't think it could get any worse than last season, but boy was I wrong, so I'm not going to jinx it this time. Bot lane is so terrible that I don't even know where I want them to go. They've done so many things wrong there for so long, but I'm actually at the point where I'd just like them to fix hook hitboxes. Nothing makes me want to uninstall league more than side stepping a Nautilus hook and getting hooked anyways, or see it happen to my ADC. I'd like them to at least do that. That's how low I'm setting the bar for this season.
: So I played a game as Support to see if things are as bad as they seem...
I expected the changes to be bad. I haven't agreed with anything they've done for support since the removal of Sightstone, but these changes are worse than I thought. At first I was happy because I was like wow, finally less brainless mages, but then I quickly realized that it's like they're nuking the entire role instead of dealing with the isolated problems they created because that's just so much easier. The meta bot lane is grotesque. Healing and shielding isn't as great as it used to be because everything does an absurd amount of damage. Mages like Xerath and Velkoz were allowed to spam spells and get rewarded with wards for doing it. I actually can't think of a single positive thing to say about mages bot because even Morgana was a problem this season. We even had to deal with double mages bot. Then Yuumi+Garen was a thing. We had Q range buff for Blitzcrank. Nautilus has a massive hitbox on his hook that's actually broken. We're all _still_ banning Pyke. That's a very light overview of the many problems that would have been a defining moment in another season but were just another day in bot lane for this season. What the hell is going on? Instead of cleaning their room full of all their bad balancing decisions, they decided to burn it down.
Quáx (NA)
: Main you fear the most?
{{champion:23}} mains scare me the most. - Will split push the whole game - Will not give their team a 5v5 - Will be pushing even when the enemy team is in their base hitting the nexus The scary part is how chaotic playing with him is. It's either a stomp or a 45 minute game where you're pulling your hair out begging him to group with the team so you can end.
Cdore (NA)
: Remember when League was a game made for American and European audiences?
It's not just the Chinese market that's the reason for this change. Many western games have an emphasis on the "get in and get out" model like Fortnite and battle royale games in general. Before Overwatch started going down hill, the popularity of that game reflected a desire for shorter matches and more accessibility in this genre. Gamers are leaning towards short bursts of gaming, rather than the traditional grind. That's a trend that's only growing. League wants to attract new players, and most new players are going to be kids who grew up playing those fast paced games. However, Riot can't really do that without sacrificing what made League special in the first place. So we're kind of stuck in this awkward place where nobody is happy anymore.
: How is what Hashshinshin doing fair
I'm convinced Hashinshin is a Harvard social experiment. He's like a caricature of top lane players. {{sticker:sg-lulu}}
Manxxom (NA)
: Wrong, It's Karma it was stated earlier in the 10th anniversary dev notes. But I could have misheard that
> [{quoted}](name=Manxxom,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8HBcgfTR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-20T23:36:42.217+0000) > > Wrong, > It's Karma it was stated earlier in the 10th anniversary dev notes. > But I could have misheard that Since when did Karma have a fair complexion, elven features, a staff, and hooves? It's pretty funny to me how you all are trying so hard to not make it Soraka when it's so obvious that it's her. The Kindred guess is the best so far, but it's still Soraka.
: > [{quoted}](name=Baby Ghoul,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RnXso9J4,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2019-11-20T04:46:55.715+0000) > > Agreed, I do think her poke damage is way too much, but in terms of poke supports she's the least oppressive to play against. {{champion:101}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:143}} > > She's one of the least obnoxious poke supports in my opinion, but that isn't saying too much. They all need to be toned down. > > Still, at least with {{champion:235}} she's weak to all-in champions like {{champion:89}} or {{champion:111}} . A big problem with bot lane right now is that so many hitboxes are way bigger than what is visually telegraphed. I've had so many {{champion:111}} hooks and {{champion:25}} Q's completely miss me and have been locked down anyways. That pisses me off so much more. > > There's so many problems with supports in general right now that I do hope that it is a focus of preseason. I'd really like them to address the mage question and tone done damage in general, not just {{champion:235}} 's. I'm so tired of {{item:3303}} players being able to spam spells. Ideally I'd like them to do something about camping too, but they seem to be going in the exact opposite direction there... You know who else is weak to leona and naut engages? Every single champ that goes bot lane and isnt another one of those tank supports or morgana, those champs are broken. Senna is busted because shes too strong early game for her infinite scaling, its like imagine nasus having a renekton tier early game, it would not be balanced.
> [{quoted}](name=Anime Fizz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RnXso9J4,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2019-11-20T06:14:48.124+0000) > > You know who else is weak to leona and naut engages? > > Every single champ that goes bot lane and isnt another one of those tank supports or morgana, those champs are broken. > > Senna is busted because shes too strong early game for her infinite scaling, its like imagine nasus having a renekton tier early game, it would not be balanced. That's not true. She's not nearly as strong as those other poke supports against engage supports. Enchanters and Morg do fine against engage supports. The only thing broken about them is their unreasonably large hitboxes. Furthermore Senna is weak to bullying by other poke supports. She's not this unbeatable champion in lane that you're making her out to be. You're overestimating her power early game and exaggeration is never something that will support your argument. Yes, she does do too much damage, but it's not during the early laning phase that I worry about her poke. Her damage scales fast and pretty easily for someone with so much utility which is why her damage shouldn't be so high. Not because you can't lane against her because a lot of supports can do that just fine.
: Senna simply does way too much poke damage
Agreed, I do think her poke damage is way too much, but in terms of poke supports she's the least oppressive to play against. {{champion:101}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:143}} She's one of the least obnoxious poke supports in my opinion, but that isn't saying too much. They all need to be toned down. Still, at least with {{champion:235}} she's weak to all-in champions like {{champion:89}} or {{champion:111}} . A big problem with bot lane right now is that so many hitboxes are way bigger than what is visually telegraphed. I've had so many {{champion:111}} hooks and {{champion:25}} Q's completely miss me and have been locked down anyways. That pisses me off so much more. There's so many problems with supports in general right now that I do hope that it is a focus of preseason. I'd really like them to address the mage question and tone done damage in general, not just {{champion:235}} 's. I'm so tired of {{item:3303}} players being able to spam spells. Ideally I'd like them to do something about camping too, but they seem to be going in the exact opposite direction there...
Teémò (NA)
: Why is vision always being removed from the game?
Ganks make for flashy plays in the professional scene. That's the reason. Sightstone was explicitly removed because solo players were buying it to light up the map. After that bot lane saw an increase in ganks and mage supports, and Riot supported that chaos bot lane. Sightstone was often a must-buy first back because it offered vision and +150 health, and it forced mages to make a sacrifice if they couldn't force a fight before the first back. Now they just comfortably start to build damage and spam spells for their wards. In pro play stuff like that is interesting to watch, but for those of us in solo queue who aren't playing with a coordinated team that we trained with, it's like playing Russian Roulette every time you queue. One thing's for sure, someone is getting shot, and you just gotta hope it isn't your lane because once that trigger is pulled you're helpless even as support due to ward quest. Junglers aren't punished for ganks that don't work out either. It's enough to push you out of lane and deny you farm. You begin to feel the game slip out of your fingers, and then after several attempts you finally die. The game spirals from that point on. Pro players are in communication with one another and know how to mitigate pressure or outplay. That's great for the crowd at tournaments, but unobtainable for solo queue players who are strangers not on voice communication. That's why I wish there were separate games for pro players and solo queue.
: senna has tradeoffs my ass
Senna should never outheal a Soraka. If that happens, then that Soraka played very poorly and that's coming from a Soraka main. I never fear facing her, but Soraka has a good laning phase when she isn't facing mages. Senna is actually weak early game, which means she can be easily bullied by mage supports and she's completely countered by all-in supports like Leona, Nautilus, and Blitzcrank. The unfortunate part of Senna's release is that she didn't break the meta botlane. Mages and engage supports with broken hitboxes still rule the meta. What I do think is a problem is that she does do a little bit too much damage, but also, so do a lot of other supports. That's the problem with the meta, the damage creep. Her damage isn't overbearing either because the thing that keeps her firmly in the support role is her slow auto-attack animation, so she can never contest a true ADC on her own. Senna doesn't even break the top 10 of biggest problems I see in bot lane. It doesn't mean she's balanced, but she's not broken either.
: I got banned
So basically it can be summed up as this. **Riot:** We have a zero tolerance policy on racism, misogyny, and homophobia in-game. If you are reported, we will take action. **You:** Ok, but I was joking when I said something racist, so it is different for me. Why should there be separate rules for you? If you are _correctly_ reported by anyone in that match for saying a slur, then it's going to get reviewed and if the system picks up on that word you're in for a ban of some sort. If you report them for something else, then it's probably not going to get noticed. A lot of people don't file the right report. You said a slur, someone reported you for hate speech, and the chatlogs were reviewed to look for what you said. Context doesn't matter because this is the internet. It's like, why even risk it? Clearly they didn't think it was funny, and Riot doesn't have time to judge the humor in everything we say through text. We all agree to the same rules.
Kei143 (NA)
: http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdc2018/presentations/Voll_Kimberly_Honorable_Intentions_Player.pdf
> [{quoted}](name=Kei143,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QmafEtR0,comment-id=000600010000,timestamp=2019-11-17T04:47:21.968+0000) > > http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdc2018/presentations/Voll_Kimberly_Honorable_Intentions_Player.pdf Those stats are from over 2 years ago, suggest ADCs get the most honor, and it's from someone who no longer works at Riot. A lot has changed in the past 2 years. That was actually during the Ardent Censer meta when enchanters were insanely OP, so yeah I'm guessing Soraka was honored a lot for the insane heals she was allowed to put out. Now it's all about damage. All of this is irrelevant though because again, the honors you get don't make a huge difference, your participation in the system does.
Kei143 (NA)
: Supports are the easiest role to rack in honors. Soraka being the highest honored champ. Top lane has the least probability of getting honored. And I don't believe you have enough time to get 2 check points before the end of the season.
> [{quoted}](name=Kei143,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=QmafEtR0,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-11-16T22:55:35.715+0000) > > Supports are the easiest role to rack in honors. Soraka being the highest honored champ. > > Top lane has the least probability of getting honored. > > And I don't believe you have enough time to get 2 check points before the end of the season. Who gets honored doesn't really matter that much in terms of honor progress. In the FAQs they say _slight_ bonus, but really it doesn't make a difference. I don't know where you're getting your statistics, since you provided no sources, but I also question when those alleged statistics were published. I can't find them at all, and certainly Soraka and enchanters in general aren't at the top of the meta in bot lane. In fact, a lot of people prefer not to play with them in favor of hook supports and damage mages at low ELO. Bot lane is the most volatile lane right now as well, and typically there's one side that dominates due to ganks which creates stress for the team and why you always see botlane arguing with each other or their jungler, or even all 3 of them arguing with each other. Regardless, what counts in the honor system is your participation in the honor system by honoring others and not getting legitimately reported. If everyone on the team participates in the honor system, then that's when you get a significant boost. OP it is too late to get your honor back to level 2 for rewards, but I also don't think it'd be easier to get back there because you play support. It's not going to be harder either. Generally it takes around 150-200 games where you participate in the honor system and use the chat in a positive way. That's a very rough estimate and different for everyone. You don't have to kiss up to people, but muting all won't work either. Any legitimate reports also stops your progress and they don't tell you about it.
Bârd (NA)
: A big part of damage creep isn't just the raw numbers, it's the items people buy early on.
Exactly, for bot lane we could say the same thing for mage supports. When Sightstone was removed there was no longer any risk to playing a mage bot lane thanks to {{item:3098}} . Mages used to be a cheese pick bot lane because they relied on overwhelming the enemy _before_ the first back. Typically supports would buy Sightstone first. It was too good not to get it, and that's why solo laners started using it in pro play. That item also offered +150 health to deal with the magic damage. Mages had to make a choice, either build more damage and risk a decisive gank, or build vision and sacrifice their damage. Now they just immediately start building damage and are rewarded with wards for spamming spells bot.
SirEnds (NA)
: Senna actually seems somewhat balanced and actually Underpowered in some ways
She's designed well in the sense that her power is kept firmly in the support position. I've seen a lot of people try their hardest to play with her outside of support, and I'm sure that will never change, but she's most effective in the support role. She's certainly not going to be the next top ADC, but she is a top support right now. I'd say she does a little too much damage for how utility heavy she is. The reason why I say she's not the next top ADC is because that damage isn't a consistent stream due to her slow auto-attack animation. You can't rely on her to melt an enemy team's sustain like a traditional ADC, and she's just as vulnerable as most ADCs, maybe even more so. She's weak against hard engage champions like Nautilus and Blitzcrank, and their ridiculous hitboxes still keep them at the top of the support meta. I'll still be banning them over Senna. It's kind of too soon to tell though. Everyone wants to play her everywhere but support, and it's going to take a while for other lanes to hard counter her and make her irrelevant outside of support except for specific matchups. When she's more focused in the support role we can get a better idea of how powerful she really is and what people can do with her.
: There is no way I got chat restricted for calling someone a dog, only from 1 game ...
That match alone is pushing the boundaries considerably. It looks like you spent the whole match harassing people. If you got legitimately reported recently, which they don't tell you, then you were jumping on thin ice. Repeated behavior like that chat will result in a chat restriction. Also being toxic in the game isn't the same as being toxic on stream. You can say whatever you want outside of the game. A lot of people trash talk with their friends in discord or through the private messages. If a streamer is trash talking someone, then go look at the ToS of whatever platform they're on and report them. Riot won't do anything about it because it's not happening directly on their platform.
: Please allow at least 1 dodge per promos
I've stopped dodging. There's too many low ELO Akali and Gangplank players going into unfavorable matchups when the team needs something else. I've just started praying that they're smurfs, and it's end of season, so sometimes they actually are.
pwc2016 (NA)
: Thoughts on Senna?
My hot take on Senna is that she's firmly a support outside of very specific situations. You can possibly take her as an ADC and be fine, but if the enemy team has tanks that require melting, she won't get the job done and melting an enemy team's sustain is primarily why you want ADCs to do. She does damage, but it's more like small bursts of damage rather than a consistent stream like from most ADCs and that's partly because her AA animation is so slow. If even Nautilus is picked into a Senna ADC, that team is done. As support it's a different story. She may be a little overpowered as a support, but nothing close to what Yuumi and Pyke were. She also just works so well with Aery because of her utility, so playing her outside of support without a specific reason seems like a way to hold yourself back. Her E was massively overhyped too and in general I think the boards overreacted. I hope those unreasonable expectations of Senna being OP don't translate to an immediate buff from Riot to make her OP, but you know Riot, if something's fine, they'll break it.
: Which champions do you think are in a good spot?
{{champion:34}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:98}} For the most part I'd say these champions always feel fair to play against and with. There are a lot of champions that are think have a good design, but the meta pushes them out of being in a good spot like {{champion:201}} though. I cringe at the people saying {{champion:101}} too, especially because most people are taking him bot and abusing his poke as a "support" since they can just immediately build damage anyways. Champions that are exploited in that way are not in a good spot in my opinion. In fact, that's why I don't like a majority of the mages right now.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainAntiHeroz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8pRrWpWE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-11-11T21:58:06.182+0000) > > {{champion:16}} ????????????????????? Check yaself fore you rek yaself you do know she has a 3.74% play rate compared to other supports right? as dedicated supports. go thats rather low compared to of the top 10 supports only 4 have heals. yuumi janna rakan and nami and with the exception of yuumi (who is new.) all of them have hard cc and can hold there own. in fact of the top 5 only one healer type is picked Rakan.
Soraka isn't a heal focused champion until later in the game. She hasn't been for quite a long time. Are you one of those people that ask her why she isn't building Warmog's at 20 minutes? A popular skill route for Soraka is actually to start Q, then go into E depending on the situation, then take W and start maxing it. In fact, a lot of people lose against her because they underestimate her bully potential early game. That's also why building an Executioner's Calling on the first back to try to counter her ends in a disaster. Actually, for most of this season she was an oppressive lane bully with E silence poke. Her heal alone isn't what makes Soraka deadly either. That's just what people in low ELO focus on. Her AoE silence is the most powerful ability in her kit and a hard counter to a lot of assassins and ults if she can use it wisely and position herself correctly. As for her stats, according to u.gg 5.8% pick rate in Platinum+, which is nothing to scoff at. She is a popular pick for support, even among enchanters, so I don't know what you're talking about. To OP's main point, yes we do need less damage, especially bot lane. Damage supports are what is making the situation bot lane so volatile and almost unplayable. The other issue is one-sided camps from the jungler that they're rewarded for doing. I don't know if Riot's main objective is to create a damage focused bot lane. Let's look at Yuumi for example. She's a caricature of what people like the person I'm quoting _think_ enchanters are. They think they do nothing and contribute little and only should heal and throw out minimal CC. They're right about one thing, enchanters are easy to play mechanically speaking for the most part, but so are a lot of other champions. What makes an enchanter difficult to play is that they're often the number one target on the team while being squishy and not doing a lot of damage, so they need to pay close attention to positioning and their safety. They need to risk themselves to protect teammates at the same time. Does Yuumi have to do that? No. She's incredibly safe to play and doesn't have to interact. Riot eliminated the weaknesses of the enchanter role, which means she can either be an OP must ban like she was earlier in the season, or she can be largely irrelevant like she is now. That's bad design. I think the support role is suffering from badly designed champions just like other roles are.
: Remove Mage Supports
I used to not mind mage supports before Sightstone was removed. Occasionally, Zyra would become an unbalanced nightmare and a must-ban, but most of the time they were high risk picks that you could easily outplay by enduring the laning phase before the first back. On first back you could buy a Sightstone that gave vision and health which equals more defense, and they'd have to make a choice. Do I build more damage, or do I get vision? They made this choice understanding that the damage they do could get them a pick, but it could also just zone the enemy out, or worse the ADC could push up and leave them open to a gank when they're already vulnerable without wards. It was a high risk for a high reward. Now thanks to Spellthief's mages have no risk and high reward. It wasn't perfect, especially if you were a low ELO solo ADC main, but it was decently balanced. Now they immediately build damage and you get chunked so easily by the spells they spam. I really cannot think of a mage support that is in a balanced position, and their dominance in the bot lane pushes out some of the tank supports that don't rely on absurd hook hitboxes like Blitzcrank or Nautilus. Speaking of hitboxes, some of the mages even have dumb ones like Morgana's Q that can completely miss you visually, but result in you being locked down anyways. Stuff like that makes the matchup feel even more unfair. The fact that they're still a problem even when horribly unbalanced champions like Pyke and Yuumi were floating around says enough. They either gotta go, or mage players need to sacrifice something again. I do understand that some people pick mage supports because their team goes all AD, but that's still not an excuse for how horrible it is to play against them now that they go straight into damage.
: Being the better bot lane has barely mattered this entire season
It matters, but a lot of the hypercarries are located up top. That's why in solo queue so many junglers this season outright sacrifice botlane to try to get something broken ahead. When it doesn't work while their botlane has been enduring gank after gank, then they start talking about how the better bot lane wins. {{sticker:sg-lulu}}
: make smurfing illegal ruining climbing experience
End of season just isn't the time to climb. A lot of people make it to Diamond and stop playing and head over to their side accounts and decide to boost their buddy or test out how far they can make it in the system on a fresh account. In the best case scenario smurfs will play normally and likely outperform their lane opponent. In the worst case scenario they throw or try to penalize someone for not doing exactly as they say. I've had about a dozen games this season where a smurf admits to being a smurf, and says someone doesn't deserve a win, and punish the whole team by AFK farming. You can't make being a nitwit illegal, and I don't know how you'd make that bannable when they don't care about their throw away account they're using to try to abuse the ranked system because they're bored. Plus what everyone says is true, Riot likely prefers smurfs because they bring in dollars and even views. So many people do those corny unranked to challenger or grandmaster videos and a lot of people watch them unfortunately.
: What am i supposed to do as top when my botlane feeds
The same thing we're supposed to do when top lane refuses to group or feeds a champion like Riven. Pray. {{sticker:katarina-love}} Why do top laners always act like they never do anything wrong? I'm a support main and a lot of my games are lost because a Tryndamere refuses to give us a 5v5 we need, or Kayle who goes 2/16/4 in a 25 minute game because they didn't get ganks (neither did anyone else). And yet here we are, not making threads like this. Maybe you should start thinking from other people's perspectives. Tired of seeing threads like this from top lane mains. Y'all needa calm down.
: True. True. I understand roles as a whole. The problem is the fact that my teammates almost never pick to win as a team but rather pick to carry themselves. Too many players I play with don't give a shit about team comp nor do they care about micro and macro play. They just play. I get she's an assassin and all that, but everything I built that I could with what I had, Hexdrinker going into Maw, Death's Dance, Merc Treads still wasn't enough to lessen the blow of Kat's damage. That ain't right.
> [{quoted}](name=okamiyasha95,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MRc9R1KP,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-11-10T05:52:31.561+0000) > > True. True. I understand roles as a whole. The problem is the fact that my teammates almost never pick to win as a team but rather pick to carry themselves. Too many players I play with don't give a shit about team comp nor do they care about micro and macro play. They just play. I get she's an assassin and all that, but everything I built that I could with what I had, Hexdrinker going into Maw, Death's Dance, Merc Treads still wasn't enough to lessen the blow of Kat's damage. That ain't right. That's just kind of the consequence of this terrible new meta. A lot of low ELO mid and junglers will completely ignore bot lane. I've had so many mid laners who do not roam, and somehow can't get turret plates even though their opponent is in my lane half the game. What a lot of junglers want is some kind of broken hyper carry to get fed, or they want to get fed themselves, which is fine I guess, when they can make it happen, but when they can't all that pressure bot lane adds up and it breaks, and then you see the jungler who has done absolutely nothing all game say "gG bEtTeR b0T laNE wINS." I hate this new style of playing where lanes get sacrificed to try to produce hyper carries because it's incredibly demoralizing to hold on as much as you can with gank after gank, only to see nothing is happening top and rift herald about to be summoned in your lane. {{sticker:sg-lulu}} In a lot of ways the ranked system has always encouraged this though. It purposefully puts you in situations where you have to carry in order to advance.
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Baby Ghoul

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