: We finally got rid of Garens Villain mehcanic
Zac x Me (NA)
: What is the 15th month?
Welcome to NA, where we write dates as Month/Day for some reason.
: interesting do u think she really replaces Skarner in a any way besides being another monster from Shurima? I think this is worth discussing honestly posts like these make me actually WANT to play champs like these...i wonder what i can do with him tho in his current state...if u can counter jg with him well and just steal the enemies camps...it MIGHT be worth it
I'm a bit late but just stumbled on this thread, here's some advice on Skarner. Ignore the LCS Predator build, take either Aftershock or Conqueror. He _can_ use almost every keystone, but those are good starting points. I like taking Cheap Shot and Relentless Hunter for my secondary tree, but you can do what you want as long as it's not Nimbus Cloak (the delay makes it useless). As for build, you can go AD, Tank, a mix of both, or full AP (very situational). The cookie-cutter build is Cinderhulk jungle item into Trinity Force and Sterak's Gage before finishing the build with tank items like Dead Man's Plate. Wit's End is a favorite of mine but it's somewhat situational, and if you want more damage you can throw in a GA for some armor as well. Skarner is almost as flexible as Jax or Udyr, but since pro play uses him as an ult bot that's what people assume he's good for.
Shahamut (NA)
: A Skarner mini-rework that might just work?
Honestly this seems like the most balanced rework option I've seen so far. Sacrificing some stats from spires allows the rest of his kit to be stronger, and a mechanic to get spire stats even when you're *not* in the spires is something I'd like to see. The proposed Q passive is definitely stronger than the old Q passive (which was 2/3/4/5/6% movement speed and 8/10/12/14/16% attack speed, stacking 3x) but it's a good middle ground. I think a couple other small stat buffs would be nice as compensation for the overall nerf to spire stats, but overall this seems like a change that could be balanced more easily.
Kazekiba (NA)
: I honestly forget Skarners ult actually DOES damage. That said, like Malzahar, even without Spires Skarner has to be balanced around his very existence Costing 6500g for the other team. However, you could still afford to buff his offensive- primarily mana regen/attack speed- stats without breaking them if Spires were removed entirely. MS probably but extremely risky.
Before the juggernaut rework, Skarner's Q would give him 8/10/12/14/16% bonus attack speed and 2/3/4/5/6% bonus movement speed, stacking 3 times and lasting 5 seconds. In my opinion reverting back to that would be much healthier and easier to balance than his current passive. It's basically Kayle's passive at level 1, so it's not like it would be broken. I'm not sure what actual passive he'd get, some have suggested his original passive where basic attacks reduce ability cooldowns by 0.5 seconds each (1 second when attacking champs), while others have suggested a DoT that heals him to keep him in line with the scorpion theme.
Cloud273 (NA)
: No his ult is not healthy. Unlike other suppressions (like Malzahar), Skarner literally drags you into his backline while doing it. And the mere presence of Skarner forces you to buy a qss. As long as his ult exists in its current state there's no reason to buff his other abilities.
To add to what Predatorator said (about melee range), Skarner's ult has a 0.25 second channel during which he stops and the enemy has time to get away. Unless the enemy stays in range for the whole time, Skarner can't just use his ult as engage. In the same vein as his ult being melee, Skarner can't actually engage 1v5 like people act like he does. If he tries to drag a squishy backliner, it means running solo through the enemy frontline, and without mobility he is very vulnerable to CC. He's excellent for following someone else's engage or stopping the enemy engage, but it's very uncommon that you see Skarner actually getting a pull on a vital carry into his own backline.
Meddler (NA)
: Do you have specific quality in life changes in mind or are you thinking minor buffs?
Honestly, simply reverting his juggernaut changes will go a long way. As Crystal Lobster already said, you could give him his original passive (auto attacks reduce basic ability cooldowns, increased when hitting champs) and his second Q passive (hitting enemies with Q gives MS and AS, stacking 3x). Those two changes would make him much less reliant on having spires for both clearing his jungle and fighting in lanes. If you want to keep the idea of neutral objective control, give his Q bonus damage or increased effects when hitting epic monsters.
: I have no idea what your referring to because nimbus cloak is not in anysense useless. Try it then tell me it's useless
I don't have to - look at the numbers. Nimbus Cloak only affects the last 0.25 seconds of your ult. There's much better runes for me to take than Nimbus Cloak, and saying that someone is flat-out wrong for not taking it is a terrible idea.
: I think Skarner should just get a new passive. That would require fewer resources than another full rework and would have less chance of alienating his players. My suggestion is some sort of burrowing passive. He could burrow into the ground and then leap out to ambush opponents, like a trapdoor spider. He could also have his spire locations replaced with buried "crystal energy caches" (soulstones of his kin) that he can burrow into to restore health and mana. The crystal caches would slowly regenerate their energy supply over time after use, so using a variety of caches would result in more sustain.
I know I'm a bit late to the party, but I'm gonna suggest what I say every time his passive comes up: * Change passive to his original passive: autoattacks reduce basic ability CDs by 0.5 seconds, doubled when attacking champions * Change Q so it uses the passive from his first rework: Hitting enemies with Q gives bonus attack speed and movement speed, stacking up to 3 times. Those changes alone will make him more flexible for laning, all they have to do is touch up a couple of the numbers and his kit will still be simple.
: It's probably your runes and build, if your not going transcedance and nimbus cloak your wrong. I can go top supp jungle and top is the only one where I go grasp rune page
I know I'm late to the conversation, but Nimbus Cloak doesn't work well with Skarner's Ult. Nimbus Cloak has a 1.5-second delay before it gives you movement speed, and Skarner's ult has a 0.25-second channel before the 1.5-second suppress. This means that there's an overlap of 0.25 seconds which makes the movement speed nearly useless if you're trying to drag people faster. Skarner's passive gives movement speed when you ult people, and if you take Phase Rush as your keystone you can take advantage of that if you feel the need to have the bonus speed. Personally though, I don't think either is necessary.
Shahamut (NA)
: Skarner Rework Concept (Based on Lore/Short Story)
Honestly, I can't agree with *any* of the changes here. Every active is overloaded, and the passive is counterintuitive to playing jungle where you want to be on the move constantly. I can maybe see slow resistance on W while you have an enemy suppressed, but definitely not 100%. In my opinion, Skarner needs a mild revert. His original passive (autoattacks reduce basic ability cooldowns) was a decent one, and if you give him his 2nd Q passive back (hitting an enemy with Q grants bonus AS and MS, stacking 3x) then it eliminates the need for the spires entirely. We all saw how much more he got picked with a pretty minor change (+0.5 seconds on E stun), so he really doesn't need major changes to become viable again. At most, maybe add a grounding effect to targets hit with his E, but then the mark duration would have to be cut or something like that.
Izzrael (NA)
: ***
No, jungle items require smite because they're the most gold-efficient items in the game for the stats they provide, but everyone taking smite is a bad idea. It's to prevent things like toplaners taking cinderhulk constantly because of the bonus HP it gives.
: When will kaylee rework drop?
Do you mean the Kayle rework that came out 5 months ago in patch 9.5?
: > Thats the core problem with many of leagues tank designs. They are too reliable and selfless for pro play, even when nerfed to the ground, and thus too team realiant and frustrating to play in solo q. While some definitely deal too much, ornn, ali, skarner, grag and poppy to name a few. Damage is necessary to a degree otherwise jungling/laning isn't viable. Perhaps nerf the base dmg of their non bread and butter spell (generally the W of most tanks) and add health/mr/armor scaling values depending on what said spell does. It would allow better power curves throughout the game, while giving them their main spell to jungle/lane with I don't have a problem with being team reliant, as I get the satisfaction from, getting my team ahead to the point they can carry me easily. If they're reliable in pro play, it doesn't bother me, it's the pros' problem not mine. >Sion on the other hand has really good scaling on his q + r and no on-hit cc, which in turn makes him fair to play against compared to the ones mentioned above. But does the scaling really come into it? I mean most builds aren't straight damage or a strong AD component unless we're talking augment/suicide builds. Most is titanic, steraks, zzrot then beef. The damage component is then armor pen, again not going for the scaling but to use his high bases. Most of what makes sion feel more fair is his semi unreliability, immobiity and weaker early-stronger late. This gives enemies more agency over the lane. The struggle with doing this to other tanks is not making them carbon copies. Scaling armor/MR passives are too niche/situational so health passives are logical. What would your ideal global direction be? Personally: As said above nerf the 2 non core spell bases and change and buff their ratios to something they actually build If possible tweak certain spells (there are many that can't be tweaked without destroying the spell entirely, eg rammus' entire kit) Buff tank items as a whole to offer lategame power, (850 health and 55 armor lost through tank item nerfs), could be a case for early dmg nerfs
I know I'm a bit late to the conversation, but I have to disagree with what you're saying about Skarner having too much damage, but not for the reason you might think. Skarner is at a weird point where he's either played full tank because of the utility on his ult or you build him as a bruiser to act as a damage threat. He's supposed to be a juggernaut, part of the fighter class where you have trouble reaching a target but once you do, you're supposed to be able to deal a lot of damage. The problem is that Riot hasn't really made that clear with the champion, so a lot of people think he's supposed to be a tank. Skarner could honestly cause a whole new discussion on his own. Riot first needs to figure out what direction they want to take him - should he be a tank with good CC but low mobility or should he be a fighter with higher damage but lower durability? I know he's due for a rework at some point but nobody really knows when. Now, for your other points, especially about scaling, the issue I see with most tanks' damage is that they have some %hp damage in their kit somewhere. Zac and Sejuani both have it, as do Gragas, Poppy, and Ornn. That means that no matter what they're going to deal a pretty significant amount of damage with their abilities and it seems like _dealing_ damage is more of the focus than taking it. Removing or simply lowering the %hp damage in their kits would force a lot of people to build tanks differently. In order to make jungling viable, maybe Riot should add extra damage to monsters back to those abilities so they're not OP against champions but they can still clear. Just some thoughts though. I agree that buffing tank items would be great compensation for nerfing damage as it gives tanks a clear role, I'm not sure how I feel about adding in additional armor/mr scalings for damage.
: Clash NA launch canceled due to technical issues
Everyone is complaining about how they cleared their schedules, but nobody wants to acknowledge that if clash had been released in its bugged state (and I guarantee it's something big or else they wouldn't have pulled it), there would be just as many complaints on social media. Yes, I get that they're not a small company (so we can skip the memes), but I think we all deserve a working product and not something buggy just to meet a deadline.
: Worked for me as well got Feral WW hopefully next shop ill get grey.
Pretty sure grey warwick is an honor-only skin, so if you hit honor 5 this season you're pretty likely to get it.
: Hey. Could Skarner get a mini-rework again? He is very frustrating to jungle against because he is extremely difficult to duel or escape if he gets any lead whatsoever. It feels like he sometimes just ends up owning both sides of the jungle and there is little that can be done about it to contest the crystal spires 1vs1. Getting teammates to help the jungler can be impossible in solo-queue, and if Skarner's teammates join in too then teamfights often feel at a disadvantage even in your own team's jungle. It feels terrible to run into Skarner as a weak jungler, because you can't fight him, you can't run from him unless you have flash and he doesn't (or you're playing something that can pass through walls), and half of your jungle will be gone even if you manage to escape. If counterjungling is supposed to be part of Skarner's strength, then that's fine, but please make it so that it feels like it can be strategically outmaneuvered rather than Skarner just running people down. I think Skarner should have his mobility and dueling power nerfed, and he should gain a new "ambush predator" mechanic as compensation. He should be able to burrow into the ground, gaining stealth while hiding, and then should gain a short duration but large movement speed and attack speed buff when he 'leaps' out of his hole. This would match the hunting style of real life arachnids, such as the trap door spider: https://thumbs.gfycat.com/IdioticBlondBoto-max-1mb.gif?noredirect This mechanic would replace his passive and/or his W. I think a good way to rework Skarner would be to make it so that his passive causes him to automatically burrow after standing still for a few seconds, similar to Teemo's passive. Where there are currently crystal spires, there could be buried sources of crystal energy which Skarner can burrow into in order to gain regeneration while stealthed. Skarner's W could be heavily nerfed but granted a special interaction with burrowing, where if Skarner casts W while burrowed, he leaps out in a target direction and deals damage where landing or passing through enemy units, gaining bonus shield based on damage dealt (increased ratio vs champions and epic monsters). This would feel fairer in my opinion and would be a lot more interesting than just charging in and locking down an opponent. The Skarner player would feel like he/she outsmarted the opponent if they succeed. If Skarner's opponent predicts the ambush and avoids where the Skarner has burrowed, then the Skarner's time is wasted so it allows his opponents to strategically outplay the mechanic. Other than ambushing players, Skarner would use the ambush stat buffs to make clearing the jungle more effective. Skarner could also burrow somewhere near the dragon/baron pit and then leap out for a steal attempt. Laying in ambush somewhere could be a risky action because it would allow the enemy to surround Skarner, but the W leap + shield could be used as an escape + survival option in that case rather than an engagement tool.
I would prefer if he didn't have to deal with his spires at all. Right now he's strong, but in the past he's always been pretty restricted by either being on a spire or not. He's always been one of my favorite champions but he's so hard to use to climb when he has a 45% winrate like he's had in the past. Adding a dash to Skarner won't help anything, it will just increase the problem of mobility creep and ruin the identity of Skarner as a champion who chases you down relentlessly.
: Mana cost and base damage went down, damage scaling went up. Now if Maokai wants to deal damage, he has to commit to it rather than being so tanky as well.
Correction - mana cost went up while the damage went down. As EndlessSorcerer said, you can't max E first anymore.
: No Lucian changes and Maokais sapplings got a buff? Sad day....
Mana cost and base damage went down, damage scaling went up. Now if Maokai wants to deal damage, he has to commit to it rather than being so tanky as well.
: I'm gonna call it. Riot replaces our names with "[Champion] Bot" in game.
That would be kind of disappointing for me, seeing as my summoner name is already "Kha6 Bot"
: click on "Tutorial", It should be in there.
I feel like we bots shouldn't be promoting how to use this system...
: So What About Those Still Using The Old Client?
IIRC, they're going to push people more to the new client in the next couple of months. They've been including bits of the new client with the past few patches to make the final download smaller, and eventually the old client will no longer be supported.
: TL:DR:Pls nerf rengar, I like leblanc now, and give more depth to some boring champs. I see all of these people talking about Jayce and Malzahar. Thats good and I would like to see some change but when you are a bronze player like myself and someone goes rengar 25/0/0 and ends a game at 16 minutes I think a major nerf is in order. I also want to mention that I liked the le blanc rework she takes more skill and that is very nice low elo. Last thing Volibear with me I dont think these champs need reworks but some updates are needed the list consists of Blitzcrank, Nunu, and Rammus. These champs arent bad but when yasuo has a paragraph of statistics for his q and blitzcrank has a sentance and no real indivisuality other than the ult its hard to argue that blitzcrank is worth playing if thresh has a pull and abilities that just do more. Thanks again. (also where dat new talon skin at?)
Honestly, if someone is going 25/0/0 in a game, it's unlikely that it's just the champion. Every champion can be countered and beat, either with another specific champion or with a playstyle. But if Rengar goes 25/0 in 16 minutes, it means that he was able to gank lanes repeatedly without resistance and not have to farm his jungle. As for the champions you mentioned, I really don't think they need many changes. Blitzcrank's hook works differently than Thresh's (it pulls you all the way in rather than just chaining you to him), and his overall kit is different as well. Nunu recently got some changes to how his Q works which made him extremely overpowered for a patch (I remember him soloing Baron at one point). Rammus is ok. He's a simple champion, but he has a role that he does really well (good against strong AD comps). Honestly, the champs you mentioned are in a strong spot because they have fairly consistent power, which is often better than someone who is occasionally strong.
: why do ADC's have to be the fastest tower takers?
I think people are stuck in a kind of traditional mindset. In reality, mages have been as good or better at tower pushing in late game. An ADC is honestly better at providing a constant damage threat during teamfights, rather than the bursty damage you get from a mage or an assassin. Honestly, the term "ranged DPS" is a better one for most ADCs, because ADC just means "Attack Damage Carry", so it could literally be any champion that focuses on AD scalings.
: Hashtag:BronzeLyfe Skarner here. I unlocked skarner around the beginning of last season before the juggernaut rework was even a thought. He was free for a week and I used him for 2 months straight after that. I found his CC control and his "you're not getting away; bring that back line up front" pretty exciting and fun. I agree that the stacking Q gameplay was great and I wish something like that could return. I love the idea that you brought up for his ideal passive: crystal charges that give skarner power in some short burst. At the very least, it would make this idea of "Skarner as a juggernaut" feel more natural than "you can't be stopped sometimes in these specific areas". Rather than yet another objective controller, just give him more chasing power. More lockdown. Something that could easily be punished yet rewards a tenacious chaser. How about returning his old "crystal stacking" passive but allow his E to **ground** opponents instead of stunning them. It gives the best of both worlds while making use of a mechanic that riot recent introduced {{champion:69}} Just spitballing here. I didnt like the spires from the start because I knew that the whole idea of being gated by area and time would make his chasing gameplay weak.
Chasing power should definitely be something to base Skarner around. Even if they reduce his damage a bit so he's more team-reliant, making him hard to get away from without using a dash/flash would be perfect for his original theme. I didn't get to play him in his original state, but pre-juggernaut Skarner was what made me love him as a champion. In my opinion, the grounding mechanic sounds like a good idea, but maybe with a couple tweaks. When he uses E normally, it's a slow with a stun on the proc. If they re-integrate the stacking Q mechanic, maybe at 3 stacks his E could also ground with the slow. Think of it like Tahm Kench's Q, where it's a slow unless he gets three passive stacks on you - then it's a stun. Here, it's a slightly smaller payoff, but it's easier to stack Skarner's Q because you don't have to hit it 3 times on the same target. Instead of slow > stun, it's slow > slow + ground, but keeping the stun if he auto's you with the debuff. Either way, making him stickier would be great, as well as keeping him based around neutral objectives. I've slowly gotten used to his current state (and finally had success with him now), so I don't think major changes are in order, but reducing reliance on spires would be nice as well. Maybe put the grounding debuff in there instead of adding it to his Q? That could be interesting - if Skarner hits his E while in his spire zone, it grounds you. Otherwise it's just the slow. No matter how they do it, the grounding idea is a great one, and I hope they add it in.

Banazîr Galbasi

Level 145 (NA)
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