: I agree whole hardheartedly and i tried to not seem like i was trying to make people want to play support i just wanted to say how was feeling
Oh no, I didn't mean to accuse you personally of anything. When you have discussions of how the support role is impacting players, there's usually someone saying something like "If all the non-support mains played more support it wouldn't be a problem". Those people don't seem to realize that that line of thought is unreasonable and there's much better solutions other than forcing players to do something against their will.
elduris (NA)
: Ping spam isn't fun for anyone. You can report someone for harassing you with pings. Make sure to mark them under the harassment option.
I feel like either the majority of players aren't aware that ping spam is reportable as harassment, or they don't have much faith that offenders are actually getting punished for it. Sooner or later there might be a punishment handed out exclusively for ping spam on a high profile person like a streamer, youtuber, pro, etc. and that would bring boards and reddit into it, but until then it feels like ping spam is too far-spread and hardly anyone realizes they can be reported for it. This seems like something Riot should do a PSA on.
: Your Friendly not so Support Main
>while i agree there is a lack of outward gratuity from teammates or the game in general , i have to say there's no role that has more self gratification than support. The trouble is, that's a hard sell to a lot of LoL players. Imagine self gratification as masturbation, and being complimented by an ally (or even opponent) is like sex. Masturbation can be fun and can make you feel good, and some people are just fine only having that. However, the vast majority of people want more than that; they won't be fulfilled until they engage is sex with someone else. Sure, a little self gratification can tide you over until you have sex again, but it's not a replacement for that interaction with others. And people are free to think like that. It's not right to ask them to change and appreciate self gratification more any more than it is for them to ask you to change and like self gratification less. It's not fair to say "Well you know you did well that last teamfight and you should be happy with that" because that's exactly what _doesn't_ make them happy. They like feedback from others. And it doesn't even need to be feedback from other players, the announcer lady screaming about quadra-kills or even the end of game graphs can bring plenty of gratification. As long as somebody, or something, other than themselves is acknowledging their effort and contributions, that group of players is perfectly content. The trouble is that, as a support, you're probably not getting the quadra-kills and there's no end of game stats for things like "Plays Made" or "Allies Saved" or "Damage Shielded". If you do really well as support, there's not a lot of outside feedback acknowledging your efforts other than the mastery system. Even the mastery system has it's shortcomings, as it has different standards for support than it does for other roles; giving support ranks a lesser perception. Grabbing an S rank as Sona support is often seen as less impressive than getting an S rank as Sona jungle or top or mid. It's not a fair perception, but public opinion is rarely fair. Or logical. In the end, support mains are free to like the current support role just as non support mains are free to not like the current support role. However, the issues arise when the amount of support mains (and even non support mains) that like the role at it currently stands is small enough to majorly screw with queue times. Riot has tried to remedy that with auto-fill, but many players feel that's an imperfect and temporary solution at best. Something's gotta give.
: So since Vladimir just won some LCS games today, what dos that mean for him?
It's no secret that Vlad is not one of Riot's favorite champs. I'd say it's the opposite, since a Rioter has gone on record as saying his creation was a mistake and that he should never have been made. If the search function on boards wasn't so crappy, I'd link the thread. It was a few years ago nonetheless, so they might feel differently after his recent mini rework. I wouldn't count on it. however. So if Vlad starts racking up wins in pro play, and thus starts getting played (and banned) in soloQ, I would be afraid of the patch notes if I was a Vlad main.
: Open Discussion on Volibear
Voli has many problems. One of Voli's most egregious problems is itemization. Two abilities in his kit scale with attack speed, but juggernaut items don't support that stat. You can grab a {{item:3078}}, but that's not a lot of defensive stats for a melee frontliner with a single, conditional defensive ability built in his kit. Even {{champion:122}} won't buy one unless he's incredibly ahead early on. Granted, W takes care of itself somewhat because of the innate AS it grants, but the ult is just so underwhelming if you can't proc it a lot. This is made even worse since Voli can have a tough time sticking to more mobile champions to get autos off in the first place, despite his flip. There's counterplay, then there's a self-countering kit. I would say his ult could be changed to something like {{champion:53}} or {{champion:85}} has, where lighting strikes in an AoE around him when he activates it. To help separate Voli's ult from the other abilities, his ult could apply grounding to everyone struck by the bolts to give him a unique flavor and help him overcome kiting in his moment of strength.
: Yes, yes I am, but that i besides the fact. Not sure why you must ask that. Again sure you get an extra 2 gold per 10 seconds which comes out to 12 gold per min and a good 120 gold per 10 min. Ya you really bought a lot of extra items cool beans go for it. Go do your kills. I quite playing this mode I am done with the trolls making me lose with nothing I can do to win because of you people having to go full damage where kills don't matter. building 6 items that cost 2700 each will not a be a good full build most the time as it will be lacking in health armor and magic resist. Yes it will have a good chunk of each but you could have more by getting the items that cost 2900-3600 gold. Which means no full build. Besides again kills don't matter there only relics. So go ahead do you full damage and lose. Lol troll not learning from the loses.
Straight from the LoL wiki: >If you damage an enemy champion or structure 3 times every 30 seconds, the passive tribute grants Gold 15 per 10. Plus Gold 2 per 10 from the item, you can receive a total of Gold 17 per 10. Doing some quick math and assuming you rush the item and proc it as often as possible (neither of those are a stretch in Acsension), it can generate over 1000 gold in a short ten minute match. On top of having at least 1000 extra gold, you get a great item with mana regen, CDR, and an active that grants both vision and allows for easy chasing. All of those things are huge in a mode like Ascension where constant teamfighting and skirmishing are par for the course. And the AP is nice, as damage is very important for keeping opponents off the map and preventing them from gaining points. In fact I'd say it grants so much of an advantage that if you're playing an AP champ or a champ that has reasonable AP scalings like a Jax or Kayle and **not** buying a Frost Queen, you're the one not taking the mode seriously enough.
Salron (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Dasdi96,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fl4o2YoG,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-13T11:22:23.340+0000) > >where solo lane enchanters really that bad? yes. > [{quoted}](name=Dasdi96,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fl4o2YoG,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-13T11:22:23.340+0000) > I think I would rather lane against pre nerf lulu than lane against quinn or jayce as a melee bruiser/tank no you wouldn't Lulu's entire kit is built around being able to cover up mistakes If Jayce or Quinn fucks up, they're much more vulnerable
To be fair, there's probably not a lot of players still around from season 3 to remember just how horrible it was to face a Janna, Sona, Lulu, or Soraka in a solo lane. For those newer players, oppressive laners today ain't got shit on those guys back in season 3. Janna was clearing waves with one Q while floating under her tower spamming laugh. Sona owned the lane against anyone once she purchased a mana item. Lulu could not be punished for her mistakes. Soraka made the laning phase so uninteractive you could get up from your desk and make a sandwich and that would be considered a better use of your time than attempting to lane. Here's a taste of hell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaPamsbngSM (You can skip to 5:00 for the bullshit to start) If that Vlad didn't hang himself after that match, he's probably in a padded cell somewhere. There was literally nothing he could do vs Solwolf, and Solwolf wasn't playing very well.
: Pretty similar situation for me. Though add 4. Having to deal with ranked decay and actually wanting to reach masters to that list
I'll add my voice to yours. There's very little keeping me coming around to League anymore. I used to play every day, now I do it once a week.
: Ascension ruined by trolls
You have to understand that a lot of players aren't queuing up for Ascension to necessarily win. They just want a deathmatch mode and this is the closest they can get outside of Hexakill Twisted Treeline. Those players just want to kill without things like CS or objectives getting in the way. And it's hard to blame them. How often in Summoner's Rift do you reach full build? How long did that take when you did? How good did it feel? The answers are probably close to "not often", "quite a while", and "damn fun" accordingly. In Ascension, you get that feeling almost every match in half the time. Yeah, it's good to win too, but I personally am not going to pass up the chance to play my favorite champs at maximum power without playing a bunch of normal games and hoping they go past 40 minutes. And in the RGM queue, that attitude is perfectly fine.
Ralanr (NA)
: I agree. Whenever I don't play a tank (rare but it happens) I find myself getting frustrated because no one on my team (usually because they lack a tank) can really engage effectively. So it becomes a standoff until someone does something dumb and gets caught out or both teams kinda splitpush. Having a tank does increase your chances of victory because it gives you a safer presence in teamfights. Even if the enemy is trying to focus the squishy (which they will) the tank will make it very difficult for them to succeed. Full carry comps can work, but they are more successful against other full carry comps imo.
I think most players are aware that having a tank in your team comp is a definite plus, but they also don't want to play one. It's a very similar situation to what a lot of players see as a con to being a support: **no respect**. No one cares if you initiate like a god, CC down the fed backline, absorb ungodly amounts of damage and abilities, and enable your team to pull off an ace. All they care about is the announcer lady that screams about how Zed killed four people in a situation _you_ did most of the work in creating and setting up for him. That's why you see a lot of tanks with damage items trying to blow up squishies nowadays; getting kills is very rewarding for the vast majority of players compared to being a glorified punching bag that requires their team to follow up in order have an impact. That's why juggernauts (and tanks being built like juggernauts) are so popular. They combine the resilience of a tank (for players that like being beefy) with the ability to ignore their team and carry themselves. A fed Darius can carry his team by dunking like a madman, but a fed full tank Malphite? Not so much. And that's not to say there's not tanks who can do lots of damage and carry; I'm sure you know all about Sion. But they are the exception that proves the rule. _Everyone wants a tank on their team, but no one wants to be the tank._
: They are just going to nerf something pointless rather than the actual problem which is her safety cause riot loves to "fix" everything but the problem itself.
And then after nerfing two or three things that clearly aren't the problem, they'll nerf the real issue and the champ will be super weak because they received all those unnecessary nerfs first.
: > [{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OhMRyGsp,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-03-14T01:08:01.414+0000) > > Juggernaut patch was the most fun.... I'd say post juggernaut patch, not the juggernaut patch itself because many juggernauts were busted initially. Once they were balanced though, I agree that it was one of the most balanced states league has ever been in.
I agree after the jugg patch the game was solid, but I can't agree about juggernauts themselves being balanced. Garen was pretty great before they started nerfing his favorite items over the course of the next year. Darius was strong but not broken, so he was in a good place as well before he got too strong in later seasons. They're fine at that point in time. Morde dominated Worlds 2015, got carpet bombed with nerfs, and left for dead for half a year afterward. Even now with seeing pro play recently his viability is still questionable. Skarner was too strong, but once he was nerfed into a reasonable place he disappeared form the game entirely because his kit was just so boring. That remains the case still. Overall, the juggernaut rework has a 50% success rate after follow-up balancing; two successes {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}}, one normal failure {{champion:72}}, and one catastrophic failure {{champion:82}}. That's not a shining achievement. If you want to look at the juggernaut items from the same patch {{item:3053}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3071}} , they were good... until classes other than the juggs abused the hell out of them and got them nerfed down to the point where even a lot of juggs considered them optional. Overall, it's probably better to go back before the jugg patch for the most balance. Sure, Darius and Garen get screwed, but then we don't have to deal with Skarner's failure, Morde's reign of terror, and fighters, divers, and marksmen abusing Maw and Gage.
: Bot doesnt just have to be for attack-damage-carries.
Bot can be any class you want, but if you're going to pair it with a support it should probably be a carry of some sort. Mages can do that. If you're not going to take a marksman bot, it's a good idea to have one somewhere else like Quinn top or Graves jungle or Varus mid. You're really at a disadvantage in teamfights and objective claiming without a steady source of physical damage that has the huge safety net of being ranged.
: So toplane, midlane, botlane, jungle is buying ninja tabi
Rioter 1: We may have made lethality too strong. Rioter 2: Maybe. Maybe not. Nothing to be done now. Rioter 1: We could revert it. Rioter 2: We would be admitting fault if we did that. Rioter 2: And we're Riot Games. We don't do that. Rioter 2: ...Unless it's Ryze, then we're wrong once a season. Rioter 2: But that's more of a tradition, really. Rioter 3: Fellas, that latest numbers are in. Rioter 1: Results? Rioter 3: Players are combating our lethality buffs by mass purchasing Tabis. Rioter 2: How about that, the problem solved itself. Rioter 3: Players are buying them in every role, boot diversity is at an all time low. Rioter 1: How do we handle this? Rioter 2: Simple, nerf Tabis. {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
Shadòw (EUW)
: high risk high reward. that's not unhealthy but GPs playstyle.
>high risk high reward. The proper term for GP now is "binary". A binary champion is rarely healthy. Taking some power from barrels and giving GP a fallback pattern for when he whiffs his explosions would improve his game health significantly. He can still be high risk high reward, but he also won't become a glorified melee minion in a teamfight if the risk doesn't pay off. The trouble is, where do you give him that fallback? Buff his Q? Give W a MS boost? Let his passive tick longer? No, those just aren't great solutions. It's hard to give power to the rest of his kit because the rest of his abilities lack counterplay. If Q were to be made into a skillshot ala Ryze, then you could put some power there since he could miss or enemies could evade. Perhaps we'd see shades of the old GP where one Q could take half a squishies healthbar. This time it would be healthier, since it would no longer be point and click and would take skill to fire through the frontline to land it.
Shadòw (EUW)
: well it's basically GP entire basic combo. His W does no Damage and he uses his Q to activate his E. when you look at the numbers, it's huge, but it's all the Damage he can pull off with his basic combo. pretty much every other Damage champion can pull off the same Damage with 2 basic abilities just take {{champion:99}} for example, she has a W Shield too like GP has a heal on that key. when Lux hits Q and E, she can pull off pretty much the same Damage.
Yeah, one of the things that makes GP such a balance nightmare is that outside of his ult and an expertly set up barrel explosion, he really doesn't do much in a teamfight. Either he lands his barrels and is a god, or he fucks up his barrels and eats shit. So much of his kit's power is in those barrels. That's not the way a champion should play, where one ability is all you got to make a difference. The trouble is that what are you going to improve if you take power from his barrels? His ult is already damn good, his Q is point and click so you don't want that too good, his passive is an option but that's true damage so you have to be careful about buffing it, and his W is already strong by being a cleanse and a huge heal at the same time.
: "Kayle's early game" is not an argument for why she's broken anymore. Nerf her
Kayle is fine. 53% winrate isn't all that broken, since there's champs out there with 56+%. And we don't know the playrate to see if she's actually 53% strong or that's just a handful of dedicated mains inflating her winrate. Just as well, she also doesn't reach her powerspike until she completes about three items. That's marksman level power curve right there, and that means you shut her down before that.
Nymzo (NA)
: Riot said they will rework her at the same as her sister Dunno why all the downvotes but oh well
Her rework is most likely going be more visual than gameplay. Her tent-skirt and outdated rig are just horrible to look at compared to more recent champs, while her gameplay is still quite solid.
: for soloQ sure, as it´s easier to execute teamfighting with a tank opposed to full dmg comps when there is no coordination and the tank just marks a very clear target. And even then 1 tank with hard lock down usually is enough, a second can be nice to have...but more than that and you are most likly at a disadvantage.
What are you talking about? Clearly, having a team of five tanks is unstoppable. /s
: Make Ascension Great Again
There's pros and cons either way you do it. Personally, I prefer the current way. Having a mosh pit is a small price to pay to get rid of bullshit fog of war snipes and stealth champs sneaking the last hit. In addition, teams have _vastly_ more control over who exactly gets the buff by having candidates stand in the circle and the rest stand back. I find it also promotes better team comps, since picking a team that can't wade into the mosh pit is a huge disadvantage when it comes to taking the buff but still retain their natural advantage of being able to constantly interrupt a point capture at range. (Sometimes getting the team to put together a proper frontline is like pulling teeth) And it's not like mages and marksmen don't absolutely love having the enemy team group up in a tiny circle for them. AoE mages like Brand and Annie have a field day if they play smart and save their CDs until after Xerath is brought down and ADCs can stay safe outside the circle since they can fire into it without worry of the enemy leaving it for fear of the buff being stolen. A Koggles or Jinx that doesn't have to kite can easily delete three or four champs between Xerath biting the dust and the buff becoming claimable. Finally, the mosh pit can make it harder to claim the buff if both teams are there in force; giving both sides an equal shot at it. It's not a "Let's see who last hits" stand off, but instead forces a team to invest in a teamfight if they want to claim the objective. I've even had one game where the mosh pit lasted so long the buff **timed out** and neither team got it. It was quite the epic battle, and one that probably wouldn't have happened if both teams hadn't been together in an open field to fight for a major advantage they both wanted.
: @Riot For how long are you going to keep ignoring Sona?
Sona's got the same problem as Taric, her powerspike comes in late game whereas most supports have theirs early game when they have huge impact bot lane. And even then, her powerspike is laughable. Oh, you can spam your spells? Well so can everyone else at that point. And those spells? The numbers behind them are so lackluster they _need_ to be spammed to actually have a noticeable impact. The spam isn't an advantage when the spells you're casting are so damn weak; if anything the spam is a bandaid to attempt to make up for that weakness. The only way Sona does something above and beyond other supports of her class is when she cheeses a Lichbane early and tries to delete people that way. When a champ's best tactic is cheese, you know there's an issue.
GigglesO (NA)
: I want to play morde Botlane
Just tell them the pros are doing it and kicking ass. Chances are they'll be meta sheep and will be the ones giving _you_ the blowjob for picking Morde bot.
: How Riot should approach Mordekaiser's eventual VGU
To me, Morde should be like Liberty Prime from Fallout 3: slow, nearly impossible to bring down, and packing enough firepower to kill you, your friends, and your friend's friends by himself. When it comes to League, the strengths are easy: you're a carry that's also tanky. The weaknesses are also pretty apparent, as you're slow and melee. Those may not sound like big weaknesses, but this is League of Legends. Being melee and immobile both at the same time is a _huge_ drawback, and when you combine those with minimal CC the weakness is multiplied even further. You can have all the power in the world, but if you can't hit anyone with it, your power means nothing.
Tupaco (NA)
: Why is playing a made support so bad?
Personally, I think that if your support is a Made Man, he's far too important to be risking his life in the League.
: They have to finish killing it first. So you're got a good year or 3 to go. They've already admitted they're not paying attention to it any more, since their official policy now is "When SR is balanced, everything is balanced." After that, Riot can begin removing that final Blight on LoL: ARAM. Because how dare people play anything other than SR or one of it's many pseudo-clones in the weekend rotation.
I have no doubt Riot is now attempting to kill off TT. It'll be a slow death, but eventually players will abandon it because Riot never touches it outside of 1-2 patches a year. Then Riot can do what they did with Dominion; announce that due to it's low popularity they just have to get rid of it and use it's resources for SR instead. Then not long after it's "Definitely not Twisted Treeline" debuting on the RGM. However, ARAM is fairly safe. There's several Rioters that have said they are avid ARAM players, and when a Rioter likes something it tends to stick around quite a long time... for better or worse. The only way I can see it going is if Tencent threw a hissy fit about it, and they're too busy trying to figure out more ways to buff Lee Sin so he can make more LCS money to pay attention to ARAM.
: Make actual Dominion playable instead of "Definitely Not Dominion" ?
Ah Dominion. Riot got rid of you because no one played you. And no one played you because Riot refused to dedicate resources to you. And there were no resources dedicated to you because no one played you. And no one played you because Riot refused to dedicate resources to you. Riot admitted that it wasn't just the playerbase's fault Dominion wasn't popular. They took _some_ responsibility as well, since Rioters were painfully aware they left it to rot away on it's own. Funnily enough, Riot leaving the mode alone kept a lot of horrible balance decisions out of Dominion entirely. It was one of the best parts about playing Dominion: "Come to the Crystal Scar, Riot doesn't balance things here anymore!" And then Def Not Dom came along as was not only a pretty unengaging gamemode, but also a far cry from what Dominion had been. It was one of the most underwhelming RGMs, and queues for it were pretty long as far as RGM queues go. A lot of players just didn't have fun.
: i like seeing garen being played in professional play, because he usually gets dumpstered and riot often looks into buffing him afterwards. helps with climbing in solo que. honestly, i do NOT think id be happy if he became a regular pick in tournaments. it usually leads to nerfs just to prevent boredom for the viewers of seeing the same champions over and over. he doesnt seem like one of those flashy big playmakers theyd buff just before worlds to force him into the meta like they do with some of the other guys.
Indeed. Having your champ crash and burn in pro play is often a good thing, since Riot tends to bring the buffs pretty generously afterward. However, if they do too well and aren't one of Riot's favored champs, then the patch notes can become quite scary. I have very little concern that Garen specifically would do this though, so he's pretty happy seeing pro play and getting his butt kicked.
SulkyJoe (OCE)
: Okay. Look at the picture given along side it https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player#h2q3 The guy saying "Nunu go bot I wanted you to support" is apparently not meant to report for that. That's exactly what's happening here. This guy is playing the game his way, which means he thinks it's better to not spend lots of time bot and instead annoy the enemy jungler. According to that Riot page, he shouldn't be getting reported for it. I could maybe see your argument except for the fact the example given to go along Riots own rule, is contradicting the entire reason this guy got banned.
We don't know the context of that situation to make a call. Did Nunu queue up for support, or did he get jungle and Swain wanted him to trade support so the Swain (or his friend) could jungle instead? Is the Swain demanding a double support against the wishes of Nunu and the rest of the team? Was this in a game where there was no role specific queue so they used pick order and Swain wasn't happy having top taken from him by the Nunu who was first pick? All of those situations fit the picture, and some can be reportable for the Swain trying to steal a role the Nunu rightfully got in champ select or for "not focusing on the team aspect of the game"; which is something Riot specifically tells you on that same page you _can_ report for. All in all, that picture should be changed to something less inclined to create confusion like this. It's a horrible example of the point they're trying to get across.
: Why did everyone down vote this it makes sense, there is a difference between dictation and asking people.
I'm sure there's a few reasons. 1) Support mains don't like it because Riot basically said that they must support and stay around bot lane if the rest of the team wants them to. Except Bard, he gets to be the exception because of how his kit works. 2) People think that I'm a Riot apologist and defending what later ended up happening. Ironically, I'm one of their harshest critics and unhappy with a lot of what they've done in recent seasons. 3) A lot of people don't understand what happened. They think that Draw was banned for picking Nunu or taking Smite as a support, which is not correct. 4) They understand what happened and why, they just don't like Riot's decision. I myself am in this camp. 5) They see the downvotes and downvote themselves without actually reading the post because it's a couple paragraphs long. 6) They think I have psychic powers that see into the future (posted days before the Rioter and said the exact same thing) and want me to use my powers for good instead of on League boards. And more, I'm sure. The funny thing is that my post was actually a good way in the positive an hour or so after I posted them, then they tanked overnight.
SulkyJoe (OCE)
: Well leaving your 2v2 lane for a short period to go steal the opposing jungle is a tactical decision... and guess what? 3) Do not report a Summoner for tactical disagreements https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player#h2q3
>Well leaving your 2v2 lane for a short period to go steal the opposing jungle is a tactical decision Two things about that: 1) In the guy's vods, he pretty much avoids bot lane entirely unless he's ganking it. I would not consider that "a short period". 2) There's a difference between strategy and tactics. In LoL specifically, tactical things are like "Should we Baron now?" or "Let's push top". If you disagree with your team about when to do dragon, you won't be punished for that. That's what "Do not report a Summoner for tactical disagreements" covers. Stuff like roles is strategy. It's generally not something you decide in game, but beforehand like in champ select. Stuff like "I'm going to go top lane and defend that lane for the first ten minutes" or "We're going to double jungle" are strategic decisions and Riot most likely does not consider those protected under the "tactical disagreements" part of the code.
: No, you can't be banned for champion picks even if they're against the wishes of your team. You can pick any champ as long as you appear to be trying your best to win and not trolling on purpose. And you most likely won't be punished for a single game where you fail. Draw made a habit out of what he was doing, so the reports stacked up over a period of time. He isn't being punished for playing Nunu support.
Yes, this fuss is about playing differently than your team is comfortable with. But the Nunu pick wasn't the reason his teammates reported him. The champion he picked, and even the role he queued for, could have been anything. Here's an example. He could have picked J4 and queued for mid, and if he did the same strat, this all still would have happened. His team would have gotten mad and reported that he was spending all his time counterjungling and ganking instead of being mid lane defending his tower. According to the precedent Riot set with Singed Guy, they _will_ punish reports in this situation where you go against your team's wishes on strategy game after game after game. Now personally, I don't like that; and judging by the amount of downvotes on my posts in this thread, I'm not alone in that sentiment. I understand why Riot made that call both back then and now, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
Sraeg2013 (EUNE)
: So I could get banned for that one time, when I decided to play Syndra top, because all my top lane champs were banned, but my team was too fucking dumb to understand that and basically forced me to "steal" my midlaner's role? Or that other time where everybody failed and we played with 3 midlaners (2 of whom, myself included, went bot lane)? Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick. That's fucked up.
No, you can't be banned for champion picks even if they're against the wishes of your team. You can pick any champ as long as you appear to be trying your best to win and not trolling on purpose. And you most likely won't be punished for a single game where you fail. Draw made a habit out of what he was doing, so the reports stacked up over a period of time. He isn't being punished for playing Nunu support.
: League is 80% skill, 20% luck.
Hey at least it's not Hearthstone, where those two numbers are reversed.
MeryXmas (NA)
: Need help convincing a new player who is my friend that warlords is not a good keystone on aniva
Let him go. When I was new I built a GA first item because I was dying a lot and it made sense to me. After a few weeks, I improved and decided on my own that a GA at ten minutes just wasn't worth it. And even if he doesn't come around, why not let him do what he has fun with? It's not like he's in ranked.
Sraeg2013 (EUNE)
: Oh? Well, I wasn't following that case until the end. So basically it's: _"See this Player Support guy? He is wrong. But you know what? We aren't going to change his decision."_? Holy shit. No cure for fools.
It was more like, player support really failed at communicating why the punishment went through and Riot had to have a meeting to decide whether or not to uphold the punishment because the rules were fuzzy. In the end, Riot decided that playing support Singed was not punishable like player support seemed to imply. However, they ended up keeping the punishment because they decided that by leaving his marksman alone in lane and counterjungling with smite against the wishes of not only his marksman but the rest of his team via reports (sounds familiar here, doesn't it) he was violating parts of the summoner's code. Singed Guy accepted Gromp's explanation, and hasn't been punished since.
: I am excited for Bond of Stone
I don't want marksmen to be _replaced_ bot lane, I just want other types of carries to be viable there as well ala Ziggs.
Sraeg2013 (EUNE)
: The irony in your approach is that "the previous, similar case" was handled by the same Rioter.
Indeed. Gromp had to come in personally and explain that the specialist that handled the support ticket didn't explain the situation well enough but still upheld the decision that specialist made to punish Singed Guy. If it's the same Rioter as the Singed Guy case, that specialist really should have known better than to mince words like that after the first time. Especially since Draw's stats can be considered strong evidence that he's not trying to steal the jungle role, but is genuinely trying to support his team. It's just that the way he chooses to support his team seems to cause great amounts of friction with his team, or else he wouldn't have been reported.
: Cheesy Double Reworked Bond Of Stone + Double Relic Shield + Double Tank/Bruiser Botlane Strat
I was waiting for thread to pop up again with the recent BoS changes. It seems like it could work. I would try more for 2 juggernauts than 2 tanks (or 1 jugg and 1 tank) so that the champ(s) in that lane have some damage presence later on in a match, and four seconds should be more than long enough for a tank and jugg to murder a low level marksman or support without needing to constantly reapply the debuff. Morde is so close to being a perfect candidate with his extra duo lane XP and dragon passive, but just doesn't have any way to apply the debuff without items first. Sad. Of course, we'll have to see how the mechanics change on the PBE. Maybe they'll pull a Knight's Vow and not allow champs to proc each other's debuffs just like you can't have two champs Vow each other. Incidentally, one champ in this strat should probably build a Vow.
Sraeg2013 (EUNE)
: And yet you keep on writing essays defending his/her decision.
I am not defending that Rioter. I don't believe that Take the Draw's punishment is for stealing a role, but for not communicating. The Rioter that handled the support ticket seems to have misread the reason for punishment and gave Draw the wrong explanation. I posted to attempt to clear up the confusion on why Draw was punished using a previous, similar case. If anything, I agree with Draw that the Rioter who wrote his support response gave him incorrect information on why the punishment happened. Where Draw and I differ is whether or not the punishment is legit or not for any reason.
Moooose3 (NA)
: Ok. Umm agreed, but you're going to be wishing there were still aggro decks soon. Jade druid is going to get absolutely insane and win basically all matchups. There is no way to shut them down early if there aren't any more strong aggro decks and they will just run away with the meta. Idk. Aggro shaman isn't viable anymore, midrange will be played more. Pirate rogue will still be a thing though probably, just small time buck might not always be ran. But in the longrun, Jade druid players are going to have inflated winrates for the next few months.
I have no doubt jade decks will become strong. Probably not unbeatable because there are a few mid range and control decks that beat it, but it will likely be stronger than it currently is. I'm okay with that. I'd rather get beaten at turn 25 by a jade than turn 4 by a pirate. At least then I feel like I actually played a game of Hearthstone.
: I see very little merit in duo queueing with an ADC main. For one thing, I don't even want the person bot lane playing ADC. I would much prefer they played ADC mid or top. This goes back to the whole thing about people having a very entrenched mindset. If anything, I would duo queue with the jungler. Yes, I do the strategy regardless of whether my bot lane player is okay with it, just like anyone in solo queue can pick a champion if their teammates don't like it. I assume that, on average, the other 3 players on my team would prefer winning to losing, so it's a utilitarian imperative that I pick the champion and playstyle that gives my team the best chance of winning. What if I was an ADC main playing with someone like Janna Mechanics, who only plays Janna? Can I demand that he picks a different support because I don't like Janna? It's an absurd argument to say that I should force myself to be comfortable playing a mainstream champion because of my teammates objections. For one thing, I may never get to that point- in fact, most players don't. There are people who've been playing the game for years who would have winrates well under 30% at D1+.
>I see very little merit in duo queueing with an ADC main. For one thing, I don't even want the person bot lane playing ADC. I would much prefer they played ADC mid or top. This goes back to the whole thing about people having a very entrenched mindset. If anything, I would duo queue with the jungler. You could make a full five man premade. Then you can run whatever strats you all agree on like five mid or Garen bot or what have you. Then you can reap the LP and demonstrate a better meta to your opponents at the same time. Win/win! >Yes, I do the strategy regardless of whether my bot lane player is okay with it, just like anyone in solo queue can pick a champion if their teammates don't like it. Riot considers picking champions and picking strategy as two different things. One can be completely selfish (there's nothing stopping you from picking support Singed since those reports don't punish as long as you play like a traditional support) but the other one needs to be a team thing. Most games have an implication that the team agrees on a strat that every role will just be done the normal way the meta says. If we want to do something different, then we have to have a discussion that may or may not go our way. If the team goes against our strat and wants the normal stuff (even against proof that our way is better), then we're forced into their way under penalty of punishable reports. That's the way Riot chooses to do it. It's not a perfect solution, but it's very rare for this problem to arise in the first place so Riot doesn't feel the need to address it.
: I would also like to point out that you failed the address the reason Riot said I was banned, which is stealing other people's roles, which has nothing to do with the bot lane.
: So I made a new account and I've been leveling it to 30. Holy shit, is it miserable.
To be fair, there recently was a huge banwave of thousands of accounts getting perma'd because of third party shenanigans so there was probably more smurfs in pre-30 than normal. But yes, I agree, smurfs really do tend to ruin the new player experience and are a problem even when there's not a banwave.
: Unless they really give rogue a good boost in the next expansion (i assume they will since they're giving rogue a new hero) rogue probably gets shafted the hardest. Bucc and patches was pretty much the reason why Rogue was played this meta. Azure drake and conceal being removed also removes two very key cards in the Miracle Rogue decklist. Honestly kind of sad. But I'm expecting them also to add something along the lines of Thar next expansion, since without Thar it's hard to have any deck variety without combos. But hey at least control warrior could be back great
Yeah, Rogue is going to have to rely super hard on Auctioneer if they want to continue doing what they're doing. That's not the best solution, but at least it's something. Then again, I played Priest back when it was garbage tier for months on end and Brode had the balls to give us Purify after we asked for help. I don't really think any class has the right to complain about not being viable until they're treated with **that** level of disdain.
: Since I can't post on Blizzard's HS forums....
The balance nerfs will help game health a lot. Pirate decks (or any aggro deck that ends the game by turn four) really suck a lot of the enjoyment out of the game for a lot of players, and it doesn't take a lot of skill to win that early with pirates so it doesn't look good for Hearthstone as a whole. However, losing Reno and Thaur is a big hit to control and combo decks respectively. Stalling the game until turn 6 for Reno is one of the most reliable ways to combat aggro and that's disappearing. With the balance nerfs, I'd say it's an overall gain for aggro since there can still be horribly quick aggro decks without Buc and Claws and Trogg and Finley. Likewise, Thaur disappearing shuts down a multitude of fun combos and card interactions that are normally almost impossible due to costing more than ten mana. Combo decks can be pretty unhealthy at times as well, but at least you have to assemble the combo pieces before you can use it. Things like Dirty Rat can really bone you as well, since they can break your combo.
: Why did Support become synonymous with Bot lane? The data shows that the advantage lost in bot lane is more than offset in jungler gold, in addition to having much greater objective control. It's completely arbitrary to say the Support needs to be Bot. In a parallel universe where the meta developed with a roaming support (as it did in DotA), people would be making an identical argument to what you just said for why laning Bot lane should be bannable. That is literally the definition of meta enforcement, and the ticket clearly states that that was not the reason.
...So, I'm going to take that as a "yes" to my question of "Do you do this strat even when your marksmen isn't cool with it". Whether we like it or not, the action of playing off meta roles against the wishes of your team is reportable and punishable. Luckily for you, as we learned in Singed Guy's thread a few months ago, the Rioter explained that Singed Guy would never be permabanned for such behavior. However, he would continue to get two week bans over and over. Link to the thread here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/79aGu3wR-support-singed-isnt-banable-but-thats-not-the-point I'll also reply to your other post in this one, to prevent two discussions at one time: >Furthermore, I should point out that I am a one trick pony (as many people in ranked queue are), and my Support pool is only one champion. If my bot lane disagrees with my strategy, am I supposed to play a champion I don't know, in a lane I'm not comfortable with and have very rarely played, in high Elo games, knowing fully well that it will greatly sabotage my team's chances of winning? How is that better for anyone? In high elo games, players are more open to trading roles and ensuring everyone gets a role they are comfortable in. This isn't 100% guaranteed of course, but it's much better than lower elos where asking for a trade is like asking the sun not to shine in a lot of cases. If it comes right down to it, and you believe that you will sabotage your team by playing support in a traditional fashion and they won't trade, then it's probably in everyone's best interest to dodge that champ select. If you're adverse to dodging for moral or ethical or competitive reasons, then it would be of great benefit to become comfortable with a support strat that doesn't require a paragraph of copy/paste before every game. Or you could premade with an ADC main that doesn't mind being left alone bot. That would solve your problem too.
: Perhaps. I will wait for the diver update. If they don't do anything with him then, I will be among the first to blast Rito for it. But I think they will.
-5 AD And that will only be _after_ Worlds is over with, since Riot has demonstrated quite clearly that Lee must be viable for Worlds with his mysterious buffs shortly before they began the last two seasons.
: 14 day ban because playing Nunu Support with Smite is "stealing other people's roles"...?
>How would this be possible if I was "failing to communicate"? The data just doesn't support that ridiculous claim. Further, the data shows that while my bot lane does tend to do worse than the enemy bot lane playing most of the games 1v2, they're on average only 5% behind on gold but the enemy jungler is 6% behind. My bot lanes also get solo experience, and my other solo lanes tend to overperform because their lane opponents have to defend against constant invades and they get ganked way less than they would under traditional play. So you queue up for support, leave your marksman to 2v1, and counterjungle instead? I can't imagine a lot of marksmen are okay with that, especially in SoloQ. When you copy/paste your paragraph and answer questions in champ select, do you **only** do this strat when the marksman is cool with being left alone or do you do it regardless of what they want? If it's the latter, then that does count as failing to communicate. There's a _huge_ difference between communication: >"Hey, I'd like to try this off meta strat, but if you're not down I can just normal support" and dictation: >"I'm going to be doing this off meta strat, and if you're not down with that, too bad." That is what got Singed Guy in hot water, and as far as we know, he stopped doing his strat outside of premade play and he's golden.
GA Aviril (EUW)
: @Meddler, can we talk about the state of Yorick?
As it turns out, giving a significant portion of a champion's damage to mentally challenged AI-controlled minions is **not** a good way to balance that champion. {{champion:90}} "Who could have seen that coming?" Also, throw the guy a bone in RGM modes that don't have (m)any minions like Poro-King or Ascension. When Nasus laughs at your performance in a mode with no minions, you know you need help. {{champion:75}} "I can at least build AP and be useful without farm, what are you going to do?" {{champion:83}} "Feed."
: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/02/224-pbe-update.html#balance It was 5 base + 2.5%.
Finally, now it feels like a keystone.
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BastionKross

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