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: ***
> [{quoted}](name=A Bad Varus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XHE5IvuZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-27T21:09:13.407+0000) > > The character limit is 16. THANK YOU
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Bay B (NA)
: My ult *didn't* go off? (Skip to 20 seconds in)
I just dont get how you can be untargetable and still take damage while being invisible makes you untargetable. .
Pika Fox (NA)
: Same thing happens with brush and other forms of lost vision on darius; his ults channel time is during the start of his animation, so it looks really odd if you lose vision mid ult, or if someone pops zonyas etc. But essentially, you lost vision, thus ult didnt complete.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8EmUseKB,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-11-05T18:36:08.870+0000) > > Same thing happens with brush and other forms of lost vision on darius; his ults channel time is during the start of his animation, so it looks really odd if you lose vision mid ult, or if someone pops zonyas etc. > > But essentially, you lost vision, thus ult didnt complete. My question then would be why when recalling, if someone autos you as you recall to base, the auto will follow you to the base? When you recall your opponent has 'lost vision of you' yet it still goes through. Frankly there seems to be a fundamental flaw in the design here.
: This happens to a lot of basic attacks as well. It's called 'breaking line of sight' if the target is no longer in view, basic attacks and abilities will cancel. Because both basic attacks and most abilities have a 'delay' in the form of 'attack delay' and 'channel' as brief as they are, the game requires you to full complete the delay before the action and damage calculation can occur.
> [{quoted}](name=l Ryden l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8EmUseKB,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-11-05T18:06:04.538+0000) > > This happens to a lot of basic attacks as well. It's called 'breaking line of sight' if the target is no longer in view, basic attacks and abilities will cancel. Because both basic attacks and most abilities have a 'delay' in the form of 'attack delay' and 'channel' as brief as they are, the game requires you to full complete the delay before the action and damage calculation can occur. By that logic the shorter your animations the more of an advantage you have?
Bay B (NA)
: My ult *didn't* go off? (Skip to 20 seconds in)
: Xaya’s Ult makes her untargetable. So if you already targeted her, it goes through. League has different logic for invisibility than it does untargetable. Invisibility means you cannot be hit by targeted attacks. Now, if that is healthy for the game or not, I don’t know. But that’s what your seeing in the video. Simply put * Untargetable=pre targeted hit, dodge AoE and not able to be targeted for the duration. * Invisibility=Immune to target damage, hit by AoE. Invisibility works the same way with Vayne I believe. Your call if it’s healthy for the game.
> [{quoted}](name=ZaneShadow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8EmUseKB,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-11-05T17:30:33.522+0000) > > Xaya’s Ult makes her untargetable. So if you already targeted her, it goes through. League has different logic for invisibility than it does untargetable. Invisibility means you cannot be hit by targeted attacks. Now, if that is healthy for the game or not, I don’t know. But that’s what your seeing in the video. > > Simply put > > * Untargetable=pre targeted hit, dodge AoE and not able to be targeted for the duration. > > * Invisibility=Immune to target damage, hit by AoE. > > Invisibility works the same way with Vayne I believe. Your call if it’s healthy for the game. That makes sense I guess but I definitely don't think it's healthy for the game. My opinion (only an opinion) is that invisibility should be that and that only, invisibility. What does that mean? It means while invisible, you are immune to all targeted abilities, simply because you can't be targeted. With that said, if you're targeted before you are invisible, you technically were targeted BEFORE you we're invisible, therefore going invisible shouldn't cancel it because despite the animation time the ability was triggered before invisibility was implemented. The idea that it has the power to CANCEL abilities like it's CC seems outright ridiculous.
Malak (NA)
: Hey this is actually a serious bug
> [{quoted}](name=Malak,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8EmUseKB,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-11-05T17:21:24.762+0000) > > Hey this is actually a serious bug Yeah im trying to draw attention to this, link a spread the word
Rioter Comments
: when Poppy actually deserves a nerf she will be nerfed. Sorry but you losing to a Poppy once is not enough to warrant any champion needing a nerf
> [{quoted}](name=ZephyrDrake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vdhBjsKY,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-11-03T19:21:21.702+0000) > > when Poppy actually deserves a nerf she will be nerfed. Sorry but you losing to a Poppy once is not enough to warrant any champion needing a nerf Lol I won the game so we didnt lose. I made this post because their full tank Poppy dealt as much damage as my 11/1/10 Kai Sai. . .those numbers just dont really add up
: Poppy is good into a lot of fighters and skirmishers. She's BAD into juggernauts and some tanks (Malphite/Maokai are decent examples), as well as ranged shit like Viktor or Vayne or Quinn or some mess. You're a fighter. Well, that's just how that goes. She's in a position where she could stand to take a slight tuning down, but outside of that, you're just playing into someone that can handle Renekton's early game. You need to remember that warden champs like Poppy, Nunu, Shen, and Galio...these champs tend to have pretty good early game damage to make up for their lack of late game engage.
> [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vdhBjsKY,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-11-03T18:09:18.607+0000) > > Poppy is good into a lot of fighters and skirmishers. She's BAD into juggernauts and some tanks (Malphite/Maokai are decent examples), as well as ranged shit like Viktor or Vayne or Quinn or some mess. > > You're a fighter. > > Well, that's just how that goes. She's in a position where she could stand to take a slight tuning down, but outside of that, you're just playing into someone that can handle Renekton's early game. You need to remember that warden champs like Poppy, Nunu, Shen, and Galio...these champs tend to have pretty good early game damage to make up for their lack of late game engage. Poppy Q deals % max so how would super tanks counter her?
: just remember her passive is a free ass ranged ~~true~~ magic damage and operates more like poke, plus her q is spammable poke so that theoretically speaking is skewing the numbers. Ill check tho cause this is kinda interesting
> [{quoted}](name=Snapp2Kill,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vdhBjsKY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-11-03T15:56:02.785+0000) > > ill check the replay in a second, but just remember her passive is a free ass ranged ~~true~~ magic damage and operates more like poke, plus her q is spammable poke so that theoretically speaking is skewing the numbers. > > again Ill check tho cause this is kinda interesting You think her passive is what lead her to deal as much as Kai Sai?
Bay B (NA)
: When will Poppy be nerfed?
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: Then neither does your comment I replied too. Discussion doesn't mean people have to agree with you. You stated an opinion regarding this thread, I offered a counter view.
> [{quoted}](name=AvantelWings,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=50jkKvUe,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-28T01:51:47.692+0000) > > Then neither does your comment I replied too. > > Discussion doesn't mean people have to agree with you. > > You stated an opinion regarding this thread, I offered a counter view. The counter view being that there is lots of discussion? Discussion isn't always productive, which is my point. There might be lots of comments, but few actually address the issue I'm trying to highlight, including both of your replies.
: > [{quoted}](name=Bay B,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=50jkKvUe,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-08-27T16:59:16.329+0000) > > Actually no. Plenty of champs I play ({{champion:39}} {{champion:104}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:5}} ) who we're reworked I never made posts about, because they were successful reworks. > Irelia successful? Rito turned her into a hyper-mobile juggernaut champion that one shots squishy targets.
> [{quoted}](name=After3perma,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=50jkKvUe,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-27T17:42:26.446+0000) > > Irelia successful? Rito turned her into a hyper-mobile juggernaut champion that one shots squishy targets. They successfully retained her identity
: Seems to be a fair amount of discussion to me.
> [{quoted}](name=AvantelWings,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=50jkKvUe,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-08-27T17:38:51.252+0000) > > Seems to be a fair amount of discussion to me. Comments like these contribute nothing
Bay B (NA)
: Pls revert Aatrox
Does anyone on Boards want to actually talk about reworks and champ designs or is everyone here to cast judgement and criticisms?
: They delete champions after they rework them, meaning the old aatrox could only come back if the built him from the ground up, and to them it is not worth it
> [{quoted}](name=BogAnubis123,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=50jkKvUe,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-27T17:09:45.772+0000) > > They delete champions after they rework them, meaning the old aatrox could only come back if the built him from the ground up, and to them it is not worth it They reverted Leblanc after she had been remade for almost 2 years. . Don't think what you're saying is true
Dat Kat (EUW)
: Stop spammmm. I don't understand why your first post about this almost gives no constructive feed back about the argument at all, gets upvotes when this one which includes a piece of your mind receives downvotes . . xDD Also . . stop spam.
> [{quoted}](name=Thornhub,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=50jkKvUe,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-27T17:05:57.478+0000) > > Stop spammmm. > > I don't understand why your first post about this almost gives no constructive feed back about the argument at all, gets upvotes when this one which includes a piece of your mind receives downvotes . . xDD > > Also . . stop spamming again. Couldn't tell you
: Your just joining the list of vets that have had their mains completely redone. Its sad really.
> [{quoted}](name=Live2LetDie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=50jkKvUe,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-27T16:52:53.867+0000) > > Your just joining the list of vets that have had their mains completely redone. Its sad really. Actually no. Plenty of champs I play ({{champion:39}} {{champion:104}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:5}} ) who we're reworked I never made posts about, because they were successful reworks. Im posting *specifically* about Aatrox because his rework was such an outliar compared to the rest. Sure I might be biased because he was one of my mains, but that doesn't change the fact that Aatrox was given a very mediocre rework when looking to preservethe original style of the champ. I question the reasons and rational as to why it 'had to be done'.
Rioter Comments
: it does seem kinda weird to rework a champion right as they start getting good but he was probably just go back to being the worst shit ever since it wasnt that aatrox as a champion was finally good just the items he was building was what was good I do think they shouldnt have changed his play style so drastically though
> [{quoted}](name=BrightWîngs,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=FrW3MiXG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-27T15:49:10.550+0000) > > it does seem kinda weird to rework a champion right as they start getting good but he was probably just go back to being the worst shit ever since it wasnt that aatrox as a champion was finally good just the items he was building was what was good I do think they shouldnt have changed his play style so drastically though For me it's just their logic that tilts me. The reason (from what I understand) why they gutted and changed Aatrox was because apparently the old Aatrox was 'too hard to balance', so changing his style completely was the 'only' way. After seeing the Akali and now the Nunu rework I REALLY don't understand how they had *no possible way* to retain the old Aatrox playstyle. Nerf his W, play around with the AoE burst of his ult, make his E less spammable in lane. They certainly could've made changes to balance the champion, but instead we got this basic, dull champ, whose kit relies on 1 ability that's so slow and clunky compared to the old Aatrox. If Riot can retain Akali and Nunus playstyles, I really dont see how Aatrox could've been that much worse.
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: A fair disagreement, but I don't think it affects the conclusion. It doesn't make him healthier or easier to balance just because he suddenly got strong in the meta.
> [{quoted}](name=KnightsKemplar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PyFihadZ,comment-id=0000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-28T16:12:58.338+0000) > > A fair disagreement, but I don't think it affects the conclusion. It doesn't make him healthier or easier to balance just because he suddenly got strong in the meta. Personally I felt his main issue was his ability to not only burst, but sustain in longer fights. I feel if Riot simply toned down his burst from ult/W, gave him a bit of scaling attack speed, he'd be worse in shorter fights but stronger in longer fights, resulting in what I would assume would be a fairly balanced champ. Appreciate how civil you are thank you.
Audhulma (NA)
: Your entire premise is flawed because you have no understanding of why they remade him, or why they remake any champion. It wasn't because he was too strong or too weak, that's a transient state of being that they can change any time they want to. They remade him because he was **binary**. He was a stat check, a Patchwerk (WoW). If Aatrox had more stats than you did, he beat you and there was nothing you could do to really play around it. If he had less stats than you, he lost and no amount of skill could change the outcome. By the way, making a huge deal out of retaining old gameplay is exactly why Ryze has been through a rework almost every single year since beta, if you average out number of reworks vs time. The core gameplay elements are exactly the reason why he's so stupidly hard to get balanced properly, and this means that he will forever be in a state where he needs a rework until they break down and do what needs to be done.
> [{quoted}](name=Audhulma,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=GP0gV01G,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-28T16:08:16.741+0000) > > Your entire premise is flawed because you have no understanding of why they remade him, or why they remake any champion. It wasn't because he was too strong or too weak, that's a transient state of being that they can change any time they want to. They remade him because he was **binary**. He was a stat check, a Patchwerk (WoW). If Aatrox had more stats than you did, he beat you and there was nothing you could do to really play around it. If he had less stats than you, he lost and no amount of skill could change the outcome. > > By the way, making a huge deal out of retaining old gameplay is exactly why Ryze has been through a rework almost every single year since beta, if you average out number of reworks vs time. The core gameplay elements are exactly the reason why he's so stupidly hard to get balanced properly, and this means that he will forever be in a state where he needs a rework until they break down and do what needs to be done. 'If Aatrox had more stats than you did, he beat you and there was nothing you could do to really play around it.' Firstly that's called being ahead and yes it does result in you winning more fights. Also his lifesteal/passive allowed you to play from behind because you could stall for ganks while healing poke/lost trades. If you were to ask me his problem was he could burst then win in a sustained fight. Simply toning down his burst would've balanced the champ. If a champ has snowball potential and he/she gets ahead, clearly they are going to win fights if the fights are chosen properly.
: Do what CertainlyT did with Warwick: 1. Keep the champ looking like it did before, just newer. 2. Make sure the champ has a very similar playstyle to before. 3. Fix what problems you can as long as you keep the champ and its gameplay recognizable.
> [{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PyFihadZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-28T15:37:03.689+0000) > > Do what CertainlyT did with Warwick: > > 1. Keep the champ looking like it did before, just newer. > 2. Make sure the champ has a very similar playstyle to before. > 3. Fix what problems you can as long as you keep the champ and its gameplay recognizable. Exactly
DearPear (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Bay B,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PyFihadZ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-28T15:20:22.645+0000) > > 'Aatrox was low playrate and if anything was gaining popularity because people finally noticed how great he was, then Riot just changes him as if he was super broken.' lul People noticed him **because a rework was announced**.
> [{quoted}](name=DearPear,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PyFihadZ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-28T15:27:08.563+0000) > > lul > > People noticed him **because a rework was announced**. He was being banned in pro play
DearPear (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Bay B,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PyFihadZ,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-06-28T15:16:21.282+0000) > > Alright Riot, I'm not sure if you have a pen /paper handy but you're definitely gonna wanna write some of this down. For todays example we'll be looking at Aatrox , the champ that never needed changing. Despite years of insanely low playrate and having the most binary stats-checking kit? You lost me there. You are not a game designer by any means.
> [{quoted}](name=DearPear,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PyFihadZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-28T15:18:27.655+0000) > > Despite years of insanely low playrate and having the most binary stats-checking kit? > > You lost me there. You are not a game designer by any means. 'Aatrox was low playrate and if anything was gaining popularity because people finally noticed how great he was, then Riot just changes him as if he was super broken.' I acknowledged that
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: I wish theyd say something to these posts, im trying to buy some RP and if myshop is up I need to know before I do.
> [{quoted}](name=IntrepidX13,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nxPytHwo,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-31T15:37:08.334+0000) > > I wish theyd say something to these posts, im trying to buy some RP and if myshop is up I need to know before I do. Yeah. I've been playing this game since season 2 and somehow Riot has become more unattached/unorganized over the years. More money + bigger dev team = shitty game?
: I think they accidently launched it so now its gone xP
> [{quoted}](name=Demon King Maou,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nxPytHwo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-31T15:32:38.746+0000) > > I think they accidently launched it so now its gone xP Clash, now My Shop. How are is it to do things right?
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dnsup (NA)
: It really doesn't.
> [{quoted}](name=dnsup,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=HeZhs46r,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-27T17:45:05.318+0000) > > It really doesn't. How about you explain your point instead of simply disagreeing.
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Jikker (NA)
: Without new players, the game will die. Like with any business, you need to focus on keeping current customers happy while appealing to new ones to replace those that leave and grow the business as a whole. If Riot is making a good experience for new players, they don't have to worry as much about the older players leaving/quitting because of changes.
> [{quoted}](name=Jikker,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=24iIAnlm,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-26T19:35:02.486+0000) > > Without new players, the game will die. Like with any business, you need to focus on keeping current customers happy while appealing to new ones to replace those that leave and grow the business as a whole. > > If Riot is making a good experience for new players, they don't have to worry as much about the older players leaving/quitting because of changes. 'they don't have to worry as much about the older players leaving/quitting because of changes.' What happens when those new players become older players? Will they also complain about a game that's constantly shifting from a shitty state to shittier state? At what point will Riot have to actually fix the fundamental problems *only* older players can identify?
: Just because it's on the downcurve doesn't mean a) The new player experience isn't truly terrible b) They should just 100% neglect point a.
> [{quoted}](name=DollaMenunaire,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=24iIAnlm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-26T18:17:23.181+0000) > > Just because it's on the downcurve doesn't mean > > a) The new player experience isn't truly terrible > b) They should just 100% neglect point a. Understand my point that these new players, once they become experienced players, will be running into the same issues that are causing already experienced players to leave. So why go for new players when the problem is with experienced players? Which every new players will inevitably become unless they quit before then.
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Bay B

Level 209 (NA)
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