: > [{quoted}](name=BenParadox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BA5sUnuP,comment-id=000000020001,timestamp=2017-12-29T06:42:07.684+0000) > > I went with Battlerite, though I have not given up on League. I don't have the time for League right now, and Battlerite's faster, skill based games are incredibly refreshing. Also the supports are pretty fun and even can stand up in fights against the other heroes. Solid game. I used to play. They ever fix the servers? There was about a month there where it was down about 75% of the time.
I'm not really sure, but the servers have almost always seemed fine. I only started playing fairly recently, so I do not really know much about what it was like before.
: > [{quoted}](name=WiegrafOfValor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BA5sUnuP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-27T23:28:11.479+0000) > > #Get In loser, we're going to play another MOBA > > http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/014/008/o-TINA-FEY-BIRTHDAY-570.jpg Already ahead of yall. Quit 2 months ago for Hots and ain't been back. Still hoping they fix shit here, but starting to doubt they ever will.
I went with Battlerite, though I have not given up on League. I don't have the time for League right now, and Battlerite's faster, skill based games are incredibly refreshing. Also the supports are pretty fun and even can stand up in fights against the other heroes.
: He is a designer who, in many people´s eyes, tends to make a lot of overloaded/frustrating champions. He has made champions like Yasuo, Thresh and Darius (I think)
Btw, to clarify for Chushoe, CertainlyT did not design the Darius juggernaut rework, just the original design. He also designed the Caitlyn Marksman Update, the Mordekaiser Juggernaut Update, the Warwick VGU, the stuff the others have said, and obviously Zoe.
: So now you have 3 Champion-Update Teams?
They have 5 teams that can work on new champs or on VGUs. However, Aatrox was not being worked on by any of those teams. If I remember correctly, they were trying to make a second GU for him (think new XIn Zhao and those Shyvana changes from a while back), but even bigger than those 2.
: Honestly it depends on the champion, for example Merc threads against malzahar can and WILL save your life. Malphite? Naw you dead man.
Tenacity doesn't reduce suppression duration.
D3m37r1 (NA)
: Those leaks usually aren't 100% true. The {{champion:28}} leak said she would only be stealthed near walls and the {{champion:6}} leak said that you controlled the claw to drag them into his stomach.
The wall stealth leak was different from the leak which turned out to be true. BTW I think that there is no way this Swain leak is real.
V3gan (NA)
: because eve's camo gives health and mana and is a PASSIVE while twitch's q costs mana and isnt always up
Her Passive doesn't give mana anymore.
Hupsis (EUNE)
: New Evelynn splash fix
Personally I like the current smile a bit more. Both look fine, but I guess its just closer to what I think Eve's personality is/will be. Also, I don't really see Eve's smile as an insane smile. I kind of read it as: "Ah, that was wonderful... Oh, its the queen [or whatever the context is]. (smug chuckle) How adorable. They **actually** think they can stop me." It's worth noting that the altered smile is by no means bad. I feel like it gives off a different, but similar vibe. It just feels a bit colder to me. Kind of like: "They think they can stop me? (smug hmph) How foolish." IMO I feel like the first smile is more fitting, especially given current Eve's VO and what she said in the teaser/how she said it.
Galiö (NA)
: It was leaked with tge urgot leak that her stealth works near walls i think, And has tentacles.
These wall leaks were confirmed fake. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAnTv8kXkAEd-Y4.jpg:large The tentacles should be right though https://dm6jf9380nk1h.cloudfront.net/thumbor/wJDI7IW5mcJ6pQb9s7D5nWYNF4k=/1200x0/filters:no_upscale()/https://dm6jf9380nk1h.cloudfront.net/article/8d77446e-2275-453e-a04a-6f8dc6609124.png I tried to fix it, but you're just going to have to click it. Sorry.
: > [{quoted}](name=BenParadox,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=E0lYjF3i,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-08-24T05:05:26.687+0000) > > Did you want somethin' like this? I found it. > https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-01-2014/RSvxak.gif No, I mean with like 30 or 40 just running amok because Brand's ult goes from enemy to enemy.
This was the best I could find, unfortunately. The only fire attacks I could find being used on groups of Pikmin were on Red Pikmin.
: I couldn't find a picture or gif with Pikmin scattering while on fire. https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/pikmin/images/2/2c/Burning_Pikmin.png/revision/latest?cb=20130102063528
Did you want somethin' like this? I found it. https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-01-2014/RSvxak.gif
: Talon mini rework to fit better into the Assassin Update's goals
Changing the passive to true damage makes Lethality less valuable on Talon, and letting AA's refresh the Passive stack duration would just make him a pain in the ass to deal with in Top Lane. Btw lowering his AD ratios and devaluing Lethality may encourage a slightly tankier build. I highly doubt it wouldn't be a Tank Ekko or Fizz, but he might build more like a DIver. I'm not sure where you got the idea for letting AA refresh Passive stacks, but if you got the idea from Vel'Koz then you need to keep in mind that Artillery Mages need encouragement to interact with the enemy during laning phase so they don't spam spells from a safe distance. The bleed already gives enough time to react. **It is fine as is.** Talon already has enough ways to get in and out of fights. Q can get him in, E can get him in and/or out, and R's stealth and MS can be used to escape and/or close the gap between him and an opponent. The R can also be used to get him to a wall he can jump over. Adding a blink to R will just inflate his power budget. Same goes for the untargetability. The stealth is his defensive tool. Also making him untargetable could disable his ability to move during that time, use Q, and/or cast W. What is intangible even supposed to mean? The Q damage change just makes the order you use it in your burst combo predictable and makes Talon even weaker againsts Enchanter when they are nearby the target. It doesn't really add much, and Is overall unneeded. Also if you get both conditions it just seems needlessly powerful. The Q shield change just isn't really needed~~, and may encourage lifesteal and Death's Dance since Talon would be able to add the shield on top of his theoretical sustain.~~ Overall, most of these changes seems unnecessary, encourage more tackiness, unnecessarily inflate his power budget, and/or outright weaken him. Talon's kit is fine. He is a well designed Assassin. He does not require major changes. I am fine with the Passive stacking on large monsters. Take that with a grain of salt, since I don't know much about Jungle Talon. EDIT: Realized that, due to the nature of the shield, I didn't make a good point with the sustain build. I left it there, but struck through it. Also I already know Talon sometimes builds DD, I was just trying to say it would make it a better buy for Talon.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ðeath XIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wvE94drI,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-08-13T16:46:43.145+0000) > > The delay is the animation > > The animation length is based off movespeed > > More movespeed -> Faster Dash & Less Recovery Time > > If you're building Mobi/Ghostblade of course you're going to feel like it's slow. I kinda disagree. I believe the animation and delay are two separate things {{champion:122}} doesn't stop moving when he's Qing Think of it like Lebalnc W. Dash (x)units and perform AOE and the end of dash
Couldn't SA Kayn just have a Shadow cast the spin part of Q in his place, like with his W?
Monotachi (OCE)
: People don't realise that Akali is not an assassin. She has always played like a melee AP hypercarry, like an AP Yi of sorts. That's why she has sustain, because she's not a true assassin. By design, she trades 100-0 burst power and escapes for sustained damage, short cooldowns and chasing power. The idea behind her passive (old one) is a dualing scaling hybrid hypercarry passive. Like the ones Jax and Kayle used to have. She has resets - again, adding to her carry-like nature. Out of all the assassins, she also has poor escapes. A blink on her shroud is not an escape. It's used to juke skillshots, but otherwise, she has a stationary circle that tells you where she is. It's a stall mechanic for her cooldowns. Everything in Akali's kit is actually there for a reason. It's not stuff that's randomly thrown in.
Y'know, I really don't (and didn't) get why people call her an Assassin when she plays like a Skirmisher. Maybe they think her ideal form (when she inevitably gets a VGU, which she needs no matter what you think her class is or want it to be) is an Assassin, but I really don't see why she'd have to be one. I suppose they could think it fits her lore better. Also, if anyone just want to play an energy Assassin, there is Zed, and Lee Sin is sort of an Assassin hybrid (Still a Diver first). That being said, maybe they don't like those 2, but it would make more sense to have a new energy assassin instead of reworking Akali into one. Granted, I don't think that is a likely reason, but I want to cover it just in case. Ultimately, I really don't mind too much which Slayer subclass she ends up in, as long as her players are happy. Maybe she could be a hybrid of the two classes. Again, either subclass could be the primary one, though I feel like having her as a pure Skirmisher or as a Skirmisher that's an Assassin hybrid would make the most sense. Also, since the blink was only added in during the Assassin Update, she was even more Skirmisher-like before then.
Terozu (NA)
: My character has a drain ability, drain tanking has been a problem lately.
Ah. I probably should've scrolled up before posting that. My bad. Thanks!
Terozu (NA)
: Who is a literal drain tank :D
> [{quoted}](name=darkcastkiller,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=GELkPsic,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2017-07-29T19:17:53.604+0000) > > Who is a literal drain tank :D ... https://jokideo.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Reaction-pictures-joke-over-my-head.jpg
Ceonn (NA)
: They have been supporting both as they've come up in your example. Adc varus was too weak so they buffed varus in a way that wouldn't overpower his mid lane counterpart. Meanwhile the nerf to mid varus was because he was way too strong and crowding out picks. Turns out people only wanted to play mid varus because it was broken, not because it was fun, cute it's in a more balanced state atm.
While Mid Varus could have used a nerf, I disagree with the way he was nerfed. He already has a skill meant to make him interact with the enemy via his W, and he didn't need a second. None of the other Artillery Mages had or have this, and it seemed like a clunky way to nerf him. They also nerfed the his Q's damage and Edge's duration in the same patch, so that change could have been overkill. If they still needed more, perhaps they could have increased the cost at later ranks and compensated Bot Varus by buffing his Passive or something.
: One concern I have. If there are too many elements, then it'd be difficult to get multiple stacks of the same elemental dragon.
They could cap the number of dragon types that could appear in an individual game. I think they already cap at 3 + Elder, but I'm not entirely sure.
: Mid Season Tanks Update - Sejuani
Don't mind me just making sure an image works. http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/254/631/47c.png Make that 2 http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/236/841/075.jpg
Joseraph (NA)
: I've never felt like a skirmisher on Skarner(Except for one game where I got a pentakill on him. Insane). But maybe I'm playing him wrong?
I feel like its more of a Diver's tool.
LankPants (OCE)
: It could be worse, he could be Thresh. It took months for Riot to get their arses around to nerfing him then they pulled the bloody nerf off the PBE anyway.
If I remember correctly, they pulled the nerf because they found and are removing a bug that was increasing the duration of Flay's CC.
: [Poll] What VGU would you like to see next, right after Evelynn?
I feel like, above anyone else, {{champion:5}} (closely followed by Morde, Mundo, Shaco, and Skarner) deserves a VGU the most. ---- Xin Zhao basically acts like a walking missile: He will either reach his target and destroy it quickly (and without counterplay), or he will not and will probably die. The only thing he can do is dive, and once he dives the only real decision he has to make is when or if he uses R, since it makes the most sense to always use Q and W right after reaching your target with E. Also it doesn't seem like their is a lot to his character, and in his current state he feels a little generic. --- In addition, {{champion:164}} has also recently hurt his niche with her ultimate and her overall better kit. (while it is not totally healthy and isn't the best designed kit out there, it is more powerful, has more counterplay, and involves more decision making then Xin Zhao's kit). --- Whatever they rework him into, his ultimate (though ~~possibly~~ probably in a different form) and his status as a DIver should stay. BTW if they can't think of a way to keep his R and Camille's R from overlapping, they may want to try focusing on how Xin's R can alternatively be used as a Disengage tool (which Camille's ult can't affectively be used for), and see if that works out.
: I do understand your concern. Sion went from being a skirmisher to being a tank. That said, too many fail to acknowledge how much of that awkward, outdated, and gimmicky kit was preserved in his rework. In all honesty, Riot payed a lot of respect to old Sion. The champion as a whole gained a new coehsive direction, as it is undeniable that his current playstyle fits much more his theme and identity. Now, irelia will probably suffer a similar fate in her upcoming rework, and I believe there is a lot to be gained in terms of character fantasy and gameplay uniqueness. I'd expect her to shift more towards a "sorta-ranged-magey skirmisher", but i think the rework has the potential to be done with regards to her playerbase and current gameplay, and there is no need for a total decoupling like you suggest.
But old Sion was immobile. He was basically a Burst Mage if he went AP (point and click stun into W shield pop) and a Juggernaut if he went AD (Extreme lifesteal and some AS from ult and the HP stacking and bonus AD from E. The Passive's weird random flat damage reduction did not hurt.) Granted he may not have been a perfect fit for either role the way he was made, but they are the closest thing to what he was (even if he didn't build Juggernaut-like items when AD). - As for {{champion:39}}, I imagine that they'd try to keep her a Diver while building on her identity and uniqueness. Also Q would or at least should stay.
: Why are Malphite and Rammus still a thing if Galio was far too binary? They are exactly the same way with armor instead of magic resist. Also, Galio wasn't that weak against AD. All he needed to be fine was just an AP enemy laner. In this game I built Frozen Heart second game because I was crushing Ziggs so bad that magic resist didn't really matter that much and watch what happened. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUvHj3jH9Xc Don't go saying this is broken. Most champions who start 11/1 can do something similar to this.
Malphite and Rammus are also outdated, they just have not been reworked yet.
GI Jho (NA)
: Champions ARE mentioned on the passive. He heals for the same amount as Herald, Dragon, and Baron.
CRUD. Sorry. I missed that. My bad.
GI Jho (NA)
: [Champion Concept] Sange, the Sanguine Warrior
The title feels like it could use a little more work. Maybe change it to have something to do with the delicacy of fine blood (The Sanguine Connoisseur?). - ~~The Passive's lack of existence outside the jungle bums me a little. Maybe the max health heal could apply to champions too (albeit maybe not to the same extent, based on the lore) or be moved to W or E and heal more from monsters. If moved I suppose a new Passive would be needed. ~~ ~~Also the heal itself may be a little too high.~~ ~~**On second thought**, what if the champions and epic monsters are delicacies in Sange's eyes? Where on Mt. Targon do you have the chance to taste the blood of Death, a space dragon, a catfish demon, Yordles, Vastayans, and Ascended? While there are Voidborn invasions, I doubt he would have been able to taste the blood of a beast like Baron Nashor.~~ ~~Plus, the humans in the league are all extraordinary in some way (magical aptitude, incredibly skilled with a weapon, etc.), and could at least act as a point of pride for Sange, since he took down such a powerful foe (i.e. I drank the blood of the legendary general {{champion:122}} and the warrior queen {{champion:113}}).~~ You may still want to lower the heal value a bit. Keep it percent health though. EDIT: Missed the part about champs. My bad. - Q is fine, though maybe the CD should be 1 second lower. - W's AD ratio may be a little high for a dash, especially one that can hit multiple targets. - If E isn't a skillshot you may want to consider making it one. Targeted CC can be fairly dangerous, and can use up a lot of power budget. - The ult damage may be a little high. Maybe make it go 40/45/50% or 45/50/55%. - Tsunami's nearsight duration is **insane**. If you keep it, you need to lower it to around 1 or 2 seconds (maybe 1.5 so it is consistent with the slow). 4 seconds is just too long. The slow may also be a little too high. Lowering the slow's strength or simply making it decay to a lower value over the duration could also work. - Also I am a little worried about some possible overlap with {{champion:56}}. I guess he still has the spellshield and his ultimate's range, but I'm still nervous. - While some of the numbers do seem a bit off, the Passive could use work, and he has some overlap with {{champion:56}}, this does seem like a fairly well designed Diver. GJ.
Just2Wet (NA)
: Thank you so much for the insight. As for the base attack damage I am thinking about doing some about that with his passive, almost like oriannas passive. With the R, I wasn't suggesting that it be something resistable as the range of the circle isn't too big. It wouldn't be as if they are walking toward the middle, they would be flailing. After they get to the middle, they can use resistence abilities like flash. I might have to make the effect duration shorter though. The Q's name I am definitely going to change. I will consider all of your suggestions. (P.S. I didn't even mean to submit it yet it was an accident)
You're welcome and do your best!
Just2Wet (NA)
: Amani, the Keeper of Faith
**Review** It is hard to judge a champs design without a full kit, but I'll give you what I can. General - It is possible the base damage is a little low, even for a support. I haven't compared him to the other Controllers (and I'm not going to right now b/c it is **REALLY** late), but his damage seems excessively low. Q - Having the range increase with rank on an ability can be dangerous and makes it hard for opponents to learn/adapt to its range. I recommend making it 575, 600 or 625 range at all ranks, based on your current range numbers. - Shouldn't Q have 2 more ranks? It has only 3 mana costs listed. - Abilities that can damage enemies and heal allies at the same time seem a little weird to me. Its hard to get an optimal situation on them. - Speaking of the heal, most heals given to allies are for a flat amount of health. I think this is because champs with more health usually have higher resists and/or built-in ways to tank damage. It could work but it is an odd choice, especially since Controllers usually lane with Marksmen. - Also why does a wanderer yawn? I get that he's old but why does he do it? It seems like his other abilities' powers have something to do with his staff. W - W seems really interesting. It should give him a bit of niche with allies that have abilities empowered by terrain (Bard, Vayne, Poppy, Mega Gnar, etc.). - The stun may be a little long. Increasing the cooldown and/or mana cost could also work. You probably won't get the balance perfectly initially though. R - If I'm reading/understanding this correctly, his R pulls enemies towards its center as if they were walking towards it. I'm enemies can still move (fighting the R's pull effect) and use mobility spells in it. Getting an idea of the pull's strength would be useful for analysis. You may also want to consider adding a grounding affect to the circle if mobile enemies escape too easily. - The debuff to resists seems a little high. **Regarding some possible future improvements/directions:** - Based on his current kit, I recommend designing Amani around being a Catcher, with W being his main catching tool. - Given his lore, it would also make a reasonable amount of sense to make him an Enchanter hybrid. That being said, most of the Catchers ({{champion:143}} doesn't count IMO) have shields or heals that can be used on allies. - CATCHER DESIGNING ADVICE Common factors between the Catchers ({{champion:432}}, {{champion:53}}, {{champion:427}} (Enchanter hybrid), {{champion:25}}, {{champion:497}} (Enchanter hybrid?), and {{champion:412}}) seem to include: 1: Pick making potential, obviously. 3 second snares, a rocket hand, grand entrances, etc. 2: Ways to help allies follow up on picks or join/escape some other sort of party. Magical journeys, vines giving dashes, lanterns, black shields (can't be peeled off/kited if CC immune). Rakan and Blitz admittedly don't have any, but Blitz pulls them into his team and can keep them there with E and R's silence, so he doesn't need the tools the others do. He is also an older design. 3: Additional (but less reliable and/or shorter range) ways to make/enhance picks. Thresh's E and R, Bard's R, Rakan's R, Morg's R, Ivern's E and R, Blitz's E. 4: A little shielding/healing potential. Morg's E, Thresh's W, Bard's W, Rakan's Q. Blitz can't do this, but he is old. Nothing approaching an Enchanter's strength, unless they are an Enchanter hybrid like Ivern and maybe Rakan. 5: Relatively low damage (higher then Enchanter's lower then Disruptors). Morg is a bit of an exception here, but she could be some sort of mage hybrid. Also her kit is old, and W and P are boring. - For Q, maybe something like {{champion:497}}'s Q, {{champion:267}}'s W, {{champion:117}}'s W and E, or {{champion:43}}'s pre-5.10 RE (RIP shieldbomb. If only it had been given counter play instead) could work better. - For W, give it a delay before it pulls (have the enemy be rooted, stunned, or suppressed during the delay), and have it telegraph where the enemy will be pulled. This should allow enemies and allies to prepare for it. It will also make it harder to accidentally screw up ally skillshots. You can also plan your R placement around where W will send them. - Make his abilities connect to his personality/beliefs/motives if possible. What is his character arc? What themes do his story explore? What makes him realize the errors of his ways? How exactly does he try to bring out the good in humanity? What is the source of his powers? What are/were his flaws? - Keep in mind that {{champion:127}} rules the Frostguard by killing and disguising herself as their queen. I'm not sure if it is still canon, but you should consider it. Granted I'm not sure if you are seeing he was a member of the Frostguard who followed the queen or someone who knew who {{champion:127}} really was and followed her anyway. Link to {{champion:127}}'s biography. http://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/champion/lissandra/ Also {{champion:20}} used to be in the Frostguard if I remember correctly. - Make sure he is fair to play against, satisfying to play, and is not overloaded. - Try to make his abilities flow together nicely and/or have multiple combos. I think I've said just about everything I could think of. Good luck! Always try to grow stronger! (By the way the following tangent was made to explain why I did not include Zyra. I also guess she doesn't really have most of the elements the other Catchers do. All the catchers except Blitz have at least 3 of the 4 elements, while Zyra has 2 at best (E for 1 and R for 3 (though I think E's duration and range would not support R, especially since R isn't instant, is really short range, can't move with enemies like Morg's R, and doesn't provide a slow like Morg's R). She has no shields or boosts to allies. I also feel like she is better to play with some damage. Could be a Catcher hybrid, but deserves to be better in Mid lane)) ...Actually now that I think about it Disruptor/Catcher makes a decent amount of sense. Disruption fills the plant queen fantasy, and Catching fits her carnivorous plant nature (along with how she caught the sorceress and gained her human body). **An Irrelevant Tangent about My Belief in the Disruptor/Utility Mage Class** - The utility mages should be {{champion:143}} (Catcher hybrid?), {{champion:163}}, {{champion:34}} (Burst Mage ~~hy-bird~~ hybrid?), {{champion:74}} (Burst Mage hybrid b/c of E + RW), {{champion:61}}, {{champion:41}} (hybrid Skirmisher b/c of melee status, W, and MS boosts. Not tanky enough to be a Juggernaut, doesn't play like a Diver or Assassin), and maybe {{champion:112}}. - {{champion:268}} could also be one but I temporarily have him as a Marksman first, Disruptor second. Probably should be the other way around. - All have a lot of zone control (gravity fields, laser shockwaves, artificial storms, turrets/plants/soldiers?/barrels, cannon fire, walls, rock mine fields, snowstorms, sun discs?, giant vine circles, and a ball that can control a surprisingly high amount of area) and some utility (the zone control, plant vision, shields, massive stun grenades, ally speed boosts from balls [clockwork and cannon. Also wall soldiers if you count {{champion:268}} ]), but don't necessarily have the burst of a Burst Mage (except maybe {{champion:112}}, but I put him as a maybe for a reason) or the sustained damage of a Battle Mage. They can still chunk your health, but they have to follow up their burst with more damage. - There are also a bunch of champs that could be considered Utility Mage hybrids (like {{champion:63}} b/c of his Passive, {{champion:420}} b/c of her tentacles and E, and {{champion:55}} b/c of her daggers and R) Also the removal of {{champion:17}} and {{champion:25}} from the class is for the best. Morgana's placement in the Catcher class makes perfect sense to me, and Teemo should probably be filed under unique playstyle. Edit: Fixed a typo.
: Actually, annie holds a very important place in the game. She is a simple and basic champion that is good for new players to play and learn how to play midlane. She teaches new player how to play the glass cannon style of playing.
She could be redesigned to be healthier and still have a low skill floor, like with {{champion:19}}'s rework.
: Kayle has 3 enchanter abilities. Her passive, her W, and her ult. Ivern has 2 (technically 3). Ivern's Q and his E, and his W if you're Rengar.
I don't really see her Passive as an enchanter tool. She is certainly a Marksman/Enchanter, but her P is really just a resistance shredding tool.
: What makes {{champion:111}} a Vanguard and not a Catcher? On that note, who had the final say in {{champion:12}} being a Vanguard instead of a Warden? That is a hard toss up.
{{champion:111}} is a lot tankier, has more initiation potential, and has more CC. I'm **guessing** {{champion:12}} 's new E finally pushed him into being a Vanguard first, Warden second. He has a lot of peeling potential, but his new E encourages him to stay in the middle of a fight instead of just getting enemies off his teammates.
: "Catchers" is a dumb name for a sub-class btw. I know it doesn't really matter and doesn't effect anything, but those champions don't "catch" anything. Try "pickers" or "binders" or something else that actually relates to what they do.
They catch enemies out of position?
: {{champion:119}} ?
Is this what you're thinking of? http://st.elohell.net/public/chill/c2f9bcf74431cc7d54e6434d5c03d647.jpg This also seems related to the thread's subject. I found it when I was searching for the previous one. http://apollo-na-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/1433761038/ohmy.png (Boards, please let the pictures show up properly) Edit: Drat. Edit 2: Wait they work now. Also I edited the 2nd sentence slightly.
Ralanr (NA)
: %health damage on tanks is fine. But tanks shouldn't have damage that scales off a % of **their** max health. Juggernauts? Maybe. Tanks? No.
My bad. I misread Lord's comment. Sorry. BTW, I think damage scaling off a Tank's health is alright in some cases. I think it might be best where the champion otherwise has limited sources of damage, like Shen's E, Braum's Q, and arguably Gnar's E (though he is only a Vanguard in Mega form, and it may be there more to further encourage building health). I guess you could make an argument against the way it's implemented on Tahm and Sej, but in his defense, Tahm only has 2 damage dealing abilities, he needs stacks to apply hard CC (or deal health scaling damage), and W has other uses, requires stacks to be used on an enemy champ, and has a moderate cooldown. Plus, if W is used on a champ, his Passive has to be restacked. As for Sejuani, I suppose its there to be a reward for hitting the second W strike, and to carry over old W's scaling. I'm not sure if that's enough of a reason for the ratio's existence, but I don't have a problem with it currently. Granted, I have not been able to play against reworked Sej, so take that no problem statement with a grain of ~~Bronze 13 player's blood~~ salt. In addition, health ratio or not, I feel like W's second cast should deal respectable damage (probably not quite charged Sion Q level, but still a decent chunk of damage). Speaking of health scalings on tanks, how do you feel about the PBE change giving Zac a health ratio on Q?
Ralanr (NA)
: Because frankly, that'd be fucking busted.
**EDIT 2: Misread Lord's comment. Thought they were talking about dealing damage based on the enemy's max health. My bad.** Tanks use max health damage so tanks can do something to tanky lane opponents (and large jungle monsters pre-Cinderhulk), without being able to blow up squishier targets. Tanks need to have some level of threat against other Tanks, Juggernauts, and Divers in lane so it doesn't end up just being a farm lane. Granted, not every tank has this (Braum and Nautilus come to mind) but its a useful thing to have. **Edit:** Changed "Tanks need max health damage" to "Tanks use max health damage" The other need is staying.
: I really don't understand why not any of his spells deals damage based on his %max Hp.
~~Actually his empowered E's deal max health damage.~~ ~~Edit: Hold up his normal E's may deal max health damage too. Checking online.~~ ~~Fixed statement. I think.~~ Edit 2: I misread the comment my bad.
Atanchan (NA)
: I feel like he's already pretty much a juggernaut / mage, which is an odd, but interesting combo.
I kind of see him as an AD Battle Mage tbh. Sustained spell damage, utility with his ult (also some minor utility with his passive, W slow, and E armor shred), tankiness with W and R, mana scaling on W, ranged but not focused on AA's (though you should auto between Q casts).
LankPants (OCE)
: Actually the correct play right now is often to hold R and use it to double proc your passive. I quite often find myself using R as a simple single target nuke since it nets you so much extra damage, that's not to say that's it's only use case, but it's certainly a major one.
I kind of feel like both could (and maybe even should) be major use cases. You could ult in someone's face for an easy nuke, or use it before you get too close to get the storm (albeit at the risk that any nearby teammates will peel you off of the target until the stun ends, or at least shield them to mitigate the damage).
: I didn't say he was, strictly. Vastaya are characterized and humanoid animals. Swain turns into a humanoid-ish bird-demon-thing. Which puts him closer than Nidalee who goes 100% human or 100% animal with no in-between. Although Rakan (or xayah?) has a Swain interaction suggesting the bird things came from them. (>_>)
Yeah but in the Vastayan reveal they said some Vastaya can shift between human and animal forms, like the pig man the explorer guy talked to. There are humanoid ones w/ animalistic traits (Ahri, Rakan and Xayah) Animalistic ones w/ humanoid traits (Rengar, Wukong) and shapeshifters (Nidalee) Champs w/ Known Vastayan Connections: Swain: Got blood transfusion from one of them apparently Udyr: Apparently his powers come from Vastaya or something (I forgot the details). Rakan and/or Xayah have a quote towards him and Swain. ALSO Elise is not Vastayan Yordles are not Vastayan The Ascended Shurimans are not Vastayan. Warwick is not Vastayan. IDK w/ Volibear. He's Freljiordian, but he would fit in the 2nd Vastayan category. Rammus could also be Vastayan, but we do not know for sure yet. Nami **IS A VASTAYAN**. I'm not sure which category to put her in though. She is probably in the first category, or is inbetween the first 2 categories. Edit from immediately after posting: Its possible I missed some people in the list, but I do not have the time right now to look through the champ list to see if I missed anyone. Also I added Warwick, Rammus, and Nami to the ALSO section.
: > [{quoted}](name=Départ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MZpbAzs0,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-17T20:18:04.447+0000) > > That buff was removed with her small scale rework, you are very misinformed and are making up numbers to suggest as a balance change, when there's no number to change. > > Point put in what? That change was to her old passive, there was never a point to put in anything for getting the armor pen on her headshots. ?Thought if someone got caught in her trap, she dealt full damage to a champ she hit or something?
If someone is trapped by W, Caitlyn's **Q** deals full damage. If she Headshots someone who is trapped, the AA deals bonus physical damage scaling with her AD. Headshots were given Armor Pen before the Marksman update, and the Armor Pen got removed w/ Cait's rework.
: Jhin's 4th shot applies 50% crit to towers. (>_>)
I believe that was to make up for his low AS and reload period.
: Let me explain what I was going with. I wrote that all in like 30 seconds so not a lot of thought besides what fits his thematic. Passive, fits his Anti-Magic armor theme, as it is stated in the lore with the witch she could feel her power being smothered. Unless you would like something fancy and utterly broken such as; All magic based projectiles within an area of Garen get redirected to him. (Think Black Hole) Cause otherwise, theres jack shit to be done bout the Anti-Magic armor and should be removed from lore. Q: Easy fix. CD doesn't start until he AA's a target. IF he does not select a target (Doesn't hover over them) He just gets a massive speed boost but a greatly reduced Silence and AA damage. W. Whats wrong with just becoming more tanky for a certain period? E. I am not good with coming up brand new ideas, so someone could come in and figure out what to do with this. Though Thematically it makes sense, as he was always first one in on the field, and first to charge and break their ranks. R. I like the whole SMITE THEE VILLAIN thing, though could be changed from Villian to Mage. Old Veigars R
Well to be honest I'm not sure what should be done with E or R either. Something needs to change (at least with E), but I do not know what the best change would be. I guess you have a point on W. Still, I just don't think switching things would solve much. While I do like the idea of an Anti-Magic Garen, it should not involve invisible power. It also doesn't have to be as powerful as it was in the lore (i.e. Galio didn't need to literally eat magic, though I wish he had something better then a magic version of Malphite's shield) Also I do agree that something like that black hole constantly affected Garen would be a little ridiculous. Could work in a windowed period though. Also might be better on a Warden or maybe even Enchanter though, like Braum's E. ...A Warden... ...{{champion:3}} ... I'm sensing a possible missed opportunity here. Might have needed to work a little differently though, and certainly wouldn't be constant. Thanks for the discussion. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: There is this thing that i stated saying (numbers should be changed). Be nice idfpeople actually read it
With all due respect, I'm afraid that number changes wouldn't be enough to fix this rework. The passive is invisible power, and even if there was a visible ring around Garen, it would still be incredibly boring and add nothing interesting or satisfying to his kit. His current passive, while not good, Is still more interesting then this. The Q is actually worse then the current one. At least now you can choose between a quick AA reset, a gap closer, or an escape. Plus, you can also time it to try to get rid of a slow. This new Q makes him terrifying against one person for a while, which, in a duel, screws them if they can't peel him or run fast enough. In a teamfight, Garen would just be totally peeled off, assuming your team actually has competent CC, and he would be unable switch targets and silence someone else (assuming I interpreted your post correctly). W is basically his current W, just with the damage reduction being swapped with the resistances (well, resistance now). - Other Juggernauts Most importantly, Garen's damage still has no counter play other then "Don't get near him." The best designed Juggernauts have some sort of counterplay, and have better tools for fighting. Darius's Q edge can be dodged by running away or hugging him, you can manage his passive, and his E is escapable. In return, he can heal a lot off of Q's edge, become empowered, pull people, and chain executes. Illaoi's lashes and E can be dodged. Her tentacles can also be killed. In return, she can drag your soul to her, beat it up, and conditionally send Tentacles to you. She can also heal off lashes and use her ult to make needed tentacles, make her lashes faster, and make her tentacles unkillable. Yorick's ghouls can be killed (or you can try to fight him when they are down), and his W and E can be dodged. The W can even be destroyed or escaped from. In return, he gets a cage (that is a harsh sentence for an immobile mage or enchanter), a low cooldown, albeit flat, heal, several damaging dead to distract you from damaging him directly, current % and max % health damage, and he can summon ghouls when he needs them with his ultimate. He can also push 2 waves at once or create a super push (though the former isn't quite as affective due to tower targeting priority and the maiden's AA range). Meanwhile, Garen can silence people, spin, reduce some damage, execute, walk out (if he didn't die), and try again. Shyvana can dive in and start hitting people until she is dead or they are. That or she 'pokes' them with human E. Udyr just splitpushs and runs away if he is too weak (or if he is fed enough or good enough, acts like Singed), or he tries to AA someone until one of them is dead. Volibear just slows and flings (not necessarily in that order) people, ults, and bites them (though the way the bite execute works is actually kind of neat and should probably stay in some form when he gets reworked, along with his ability to fling people, his rivalry with Zilean, and possibly his thunder element). Udyr, Garen, Shyvana, and Volibear all have the disadvantage of having unavoidable damage (If you get in range). This takes away from their power budget, makes them fairly feast or famine, and frustrating to play against if they are ahead. TL;DR This rework doesn't solve any of Garen's problems, and it makes him have even less decision making/agency.
: Juggernauts typically have very good forms of sustain while divers only have shields. When played correctly Juggernauts will survive much longer under focused fire than divers will.
Well, while juggernauts have high in combat sustain (except Garen and Shyvana, who both still have some defensive steroids), DIvers do have multiple ways of staying alive in fights (Though not as long as a Juggernaut in the same situation): Heals: {{champion:164}}, {{champion:120}}, {{champion:39}} (R), {{champion:58}}, {{champion:421}} (Albeit only when burrowed), {{champion:19}} Health/Resistances Buffs: {{champion:58}}, {{champion:62}}, {{champion:5}} On-Hit Heals: {{champion:266}}, {{champion:39}}, {{champion:56}}, {{champion:19}}, {{champion:5}} Lifesteal/Spellvamp: {{champion:64}} Shields: {{champion:131}}, {{champion:59}}, {{champion:64}}, {{champion:254}} Physical/Magical Shields: {{champion:164}} Damage Reduction: {{champion:19}} Spell Shields: {{champion:56}} Blocks: {{champion:80}} Revives: {{champion:266}} Untargetability: {{champion:164}}, {{champion:80}} (Albeit only when ulting) Invisibility/Decoys: {{champion:62}}
Reav3 (NA)
: His thematic felt more appropriate for a aggressive tank (Vengeful Treant.) That being said, like I mentioned above, he will probably be a bit of a Vanguard/Warden hybrid leaning a bit more towards a Vanguard.
Personally I feel like Maokai being a Warden is just fine. He was a peaceful spirit, but now he will wreck anyone who dares to hurt nature (or in this case, his teammates). Remember how he protected the Nightbloom in his color story? He doesn't need to start a fight to be vengeful. I see no reason to change him into one, and I would personally prefer that he either stayed a Warden or became a Warden/Vanguard (Warden first, Vanguard second). That said, I do not feel like it would not be the end of the world if he became a Vanguard first, Warden second, but... **Please consider his current role when changing Maokai (Especially for the sake of people who play him more then me), along with the fact that it still allows him to fulfill his fantasy.**
Junkο (EUNE)
: Vi has to build damage to deal damage, doesn't have any good stickiness in her kit, and doesn't have a free 55% damage reduction buff on top of an AoE fear that would allow her to dive 1v5 with literally no counterplay.
WW's E only reduces damage by 55% at rank 5. It starts at 35%. If he is using the fear, he has lost the damage reduction. The ult can be dodged, and even if he lands it he likely won't get out if its a 1v5 (unless he is already fed to a ludicrous extent or something like that). Both Vi and WW have similar levels of stickiness: (While WW is suffering from some clunkyness issues currently, lets look at how his kit should be functioning.) Vi has the advantage of having CC on both mobility tools, having more range on her Q (versus WW's Q), and not having to channel to keep someone locked down. WW has the advantage of having a **conditional out of combat** MS boost (albeit at the cost of feeling like a snail when you aren't chasing someone), having his fear, not having telegraphed dashes, and being able to outrange Vi's mobility with with enough movement speed (WW's R). Also I didn't put following enemy mobility since Vi can technically do that w/ her R.
: {{champion:81}} should be considered a bad example hate ezreal so much
Ezreal has damage attached to his E, so if he is using it to evade (or run away, though this one may depend on how close/fast the enemy is) he loses out on the damage.
Leo1024 (NA)
: She needs extra damage to minions again, 50% was overwhelming and a bit too much at all ranks, i wish they would see the simple solution to her balance, give her extra damage to minions, but make it scale! Q - Threaded Volley Deals (15%/25%/35%/45%/50%) extra damage to minions ranks 1-5 She was nerfed from being good in competitive but they went way too far in nerfing her, Riot overreacted and didn't even THINK of the fact that they were nerfing a 43% winrate champion because of competitive, shifting her power would've been just fine but straight up nerfs were a mistake that the balance team need to fix
I think adding a flat amount of bonus damage to minions might be better. It would help her in early levels and would mean she wouldn't be able to just delete waves if ahead.
: How fucked up is that? If you aren't this champ then you're dead because there's no other reliable counter
There are other wardens. Also enchanters can shield and heal Rengar's target, and they usually have some peel too.
: Her wall jump is also what talons should be :( {{item:3070}} {{champion:91}} {{item:3070}}
To be honest I kind of feel like Hookshot would be best on a Skirmisher. They use the first dash to get out of the firefight for a moment, and then dash back in with the stun. Granted, Camille does seem to be a Diver/Slayer hybrid. Also Hookshot can't really be used to roam, unlike Assassin's Path.
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BenParadox

Level 83 (NA)
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