Rioter Comments
Bondy (EUNE)
: Still, its an unfed adc shooting a spell **that can not be missed**, into an enemy adc of the same level, and dealing like 60 % of their max HP damage as a result. When you look at it this way, does it still look right to you?
MF's identity is "the first hit hurts a lot" + MF ult. It's all she does with a build like that. Her damage falls off like a rock after she autos or Qs once.
Bondy (EUNE)
: @Meddler: Let me show you what we mean by "The Damage Is Too High"
2/5/5 with better items and CS than xayah (two completed lethality items and a dirk) applying duskblade and love tap passive? Looks right to me tbh
Rioter Comments
: It's actually a relatively divided topic internally tbh. From a pure data perspective, the amount of damage in the game isn't meaningfully higher than it has been in the past (and is actually down for some champs), the main difference is how much more frontloaded it is. Whether that be from Duskblade, Scorch, Aery etc, it's easier to apply reliable damage that amps your combat rotations or poke. That's an area where there's more division, on one hand higher damage ensures that fights conclude, that playing aggressively is rewarded and that playing purely defensively is easier to take advantage of. This is probably a bit spicy, but I personally believe that the Ardent Censer meta from worlds couldn't have existed this season given that aggressive teams could have better taken advantage of the weaker earlier game of the team going for the AC rush (no vision, no hp from sightstone etc). Picking aggressive combos like Leo/Trist would have been a much better counter to the strategy. That being said - and this is my opinion - I think there's probably a bit too much damage right now that lacks sufficient counterplay. I played against a Soraka yesterday in a playtest and her being able to apply both Aery and Scorch immediately to me with E doesn't feel particularly great. I don't want to get too deep into the weeds here though, since that's just my opinion - but hope that once we collect our thoughts next week we're able to give you a firmer stance and what/if we're going to do something.
I think the big question in most people's minds is if the threshold for getting killed or forced out in a single rotation changed. We want to know if we're dying at 450 HP when we would've only died at 400 HP before, etc. My instinct is yes, given that electrocute damage is significantly higher than Thunderlord's was, and other considerations; but maybe that's not true. Still, we want to know if we're right that we're getting killed from higher HP values, or if we're just imagining it.
N00Bi1 (NA)
: Are These Passives the Same?
They're not the same at all (even mathematically!), because you're taking down the target's HP by more than just the on-hit every auto. E.G., if your opponent has 1000 HP and your auto does 75+(item's AD)+(proc), then -- pretending resistances don't exist -- * BorK would do 195 on the first auto, 179.4 on the second, 165 on the third, ~151 on the fourth... * Bloodrazor would do 115 damage on every auto. Ofc, bloodrazor has more attack speed and is cheaper, but you get the basic idea on the math.
: Whats the point of reworking Arch Angels staff just to gut it back to a state of awful to use?
The better question was why they tried to take an item that was used to increase mana pools on scaling champions and turn it into an item everyone wanted. It stopped serving a niche and started doing everything.
: The only way to make champions fun is to give them exceptions to existing rules. Almost every single champion that wasn't made in 2008 has a "rule breaking" ability or passive. If you think his champions are so extremely broken, i doubt you've played them for more than 3 games
it's worth noting they tend to rulebreak in weird places and end up with an odd powerbudgeting for it, too. Like yasuo doesn't have an ultimate unless he hits an unreliable skillshot q3, flashes onto you and eq3s, or is set up by his team. If he misses q3 in a 1v1, he just doesn't have an ult. Zoe's ult has weird impact. Outside of the extra range on q and e, her E is arguably stronger than her ult. Kalista has stupid mobility, but her ult's agency is largely budgeted into her support, and curiously, the ult itself does no damage.
Rioter Comments
Almighty (EUNE)
: Opinion: The ADC nerfs were a GOOD thing.
Every lane tends to result in stale metas with low champion diversity just because of the balance state. Zoe/Irelia every game, anyone? Darius vs Mundo for the 50th time? Oh wow, the jungle matchup is trundle/sejuani, no way! And those are only from *this season*. Bot lane only had ADCs because they were the only champions whose damage was affected more by gold than levels (since autoattacks scale better with the AD from items than the paltry AD from levels, and most of their damage doesn't come from abilities that get damage per rank). That was a conscious design choice on Riot's part. Bot lane taking champions that would rather scale with levels is a good sign something is fucked, not a a harbinger of the promised land of diversity. If Riot wanted diversity of this kind, they needed to make mages that scaled better with gold than levels (like, say, Cassio if her E didn't have a per-level scaling component on it).
: Kindred JUST Became Viable
I'd wait for the meta to become more stable in bot lane before nerfing kindred. Being an ADC that doesn't need to lane is a lot of power in this meta that's not directly tied into any aspect of her kit, and closing games with kindred has proven consistently difficult in pro play regardless of her current powerlevel. She's probably a touch strong, but it's really hard to tell with the meta in the state it's in imo
: If crit ADCs are so bad?
TIL that Draven and Quinn are crit ADCs like Jinx and Trist
: How is her lane shitty in this current meta? All she needs is a all in set-up support and she's good to go.
Kai'sa without items does no damage. You don't reliably win all-ins. If you take a support good at all-ins, you also sack a ton of lane pressure by taking a melee support and you're just gonna get shoved in and lose lane because you have almost no wave control. Kai'sa used to be able to win early fights without items, but not so much anymore after the last round of nerfs. Her passive got hit too hard. Her winrate isn't even above 50% until after 30 minutes, and it's below 45% from 15-20 and 20-25. She takes a long time to scale into actual relevance. Stormrazor Kai'sa, though, that's probably pretty strong right now. But AP Kai'sa? Hell no.
Rioter Comments
: I seriously do not understand why AP Kai'sa is allowed to do the things she's doing.
She's allowed to do it because she has to get there after a shit lane and a bunch of expensive items. Kai'sa is a better version of Vayne. If you let her get to the point where she can hard carry, you played the game wrong.
: Touching base on Mid-season (marksman and snowballing)
Really, really, looking for an explanation on stormrazor changes. Price point is very whacked out, don't understand the purpose it's supposed to serve. Another point of concern is that some few players are building it on Kai'sa now, and the new stat spread basically guts the item on Kai'sa. (Really sad how like 5% fewer AS basically destroys the item, but it does. Having 25% AS instead of 30% is why BorK is so bad on her, and stormrazor is gonna be the same.) Might be too good on Kai'sa as-is -- who knows, it's pretty performant relative to her other options even if it has a low pickrate -- but AD Kai'sa was basically removed from the game other than stormrazor>rageblade, so >_>
: Is Kindred considered OP?
Kindred is in this weird place where she's a way to get an ADC without sacrificing the power of a mage in the botlane. She's an ADC without the inherent disadvantages of laning one. I think she'll be ambiently weaker if ADCs get stronger. Will she still be OP after that? No idea.
Iamgeyer (NA)
: I don't think so. I think we'd wind up with another {{champion:82}}
Morde is more of a shoehorning case. He's a melee champion that abuses XP gains to be alright in bot, as opposed to a machinegun mage that could actually compete with an ADC for sustained DPS (which is more what I'd want).
Rexxiee (NA)
: The last pbe changes on crit items are just a nerf compared to live
The biggest problem with AD items right now is price. 5% crit is a measly damage loss compared to the increased game impact you get from getting your item earlier.
: Yes. I agree. So you don't think that playing adc/support is a good way to really carry? Assuming you're doing a traditional adc.
I think your comp needs to be able to peel for the AD, and the AD needs to be able to survive the lane matchup. You can carry with it, but it's more situational than it used to be. Picking something like swain bot with morg is probably still good, though, even after the swain ulti nerf
: In this current meta does winning bot lane matter at all?
Diving champions are strong and the champions that typically peel off divers are kind of weak. ADCs without range or self-peel are extremely weak even if they hard-stomp the lane, because they just get oneshot by Vladimir etc. etc.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Huge melons are out. Zettai ryōiki is the trending fetish
You say this like OG Nurse Akali didn't have ZR. https://i.imgur.com/ZXUAHGU.jpg
: I got the impression that the tied up guy is the actual nurse and she wants to stab Shen. Anyway, She looks more psychotic in all her splash arts, maybe her new lore will give some explanation (I wouldn't mind murderous girl Akali to be a thing).
If that's the case, I'm real curious how no one noticed a chick in nurse cosplay that doesn't fit in at all :thinking:
Rioter Comments
: So, I gotta say I'm not a big fan of the new Akali splash..
Nurse Akali is so wtf. We went from cute nurse giving Amumu shots to black market surgeries? What the HELL?
: I think Blood Moon Akali Splash is a step down from her previous one
You think it's a step down because it is. Feels bad losing the best splash in the whole game (and the entire reason I even got the skin).
: I think I am one of the only people that did not immediately think "Ninja Jinx" when looking at new Akali look people, just because she is slim with exposed skin covered in tattoos does not make them the same. 1 - their character silhouettes are completely different 2 - the amount of tattoo is different 3 - they aren't even the same tattoo. Akali is also not encroaching on Jinx's visual base. Akali is more close to Anime Yakuza Ninja now more then ever armed with damn near every ninja tool you can think of, while Jinx is pure Chaos Hot Topic Teenager with firearms. As for her path this new Akali is more along the lines of a Teenager/Young adult heading out to find their own path to things. She has been trained by Shen in one way, has seen how Zed does things, and now having mastered various weapons and tricks she has left Shen's side to find how she fits into things and find her own Balance.
1) Silhouette is only one determiner of visual similarity. It's one of the most important, but it's absolutely not the only one. 2) The amount of tattoo is different, but from the front, that's very hard to tell, and from the front... 3) It's honestly very hard to tell what's different from Jinx's tattoo without actually looking more closely. The tattoo isn't different enough at a glance from the front. They both have a lot of cloud patterns and are in similar places. If you need to compare to see what's different between them, you've already failed in making that part of the character distinct. Also, Akali is now anime hot topic ninja as much as anything else. She's got a naruto run and a bunch of daggers (instead of kunai but why I don't know), and slurps ramen. She's ROGUE and EDGY as opposed to being an adherent to a philosophy. (Arguably, they took her from true neutral to chaotic good.) And isn't Jinx just armed with damn near every gun you can think of, as a parallel? I don't think this argument really holds up too well. Old Akali gave off a much more "this is my job and this is how we do things" vibe, and appealed to a specific brand of chuuni (light/dark balance). New Akali is a rogue that doesn't care about the rules and doesn't appeal to the same chuuni fantasy anymore. (Who even does, now, actually? Kassadin? But didn't they just rework KAssadin's lore...?)
Rioter Comments
: Why is Sejuani being nerfed?
Sej has noncommittal engage second only to Ornn and her E is some of the most guaranteed hard CC in the game. It's really easy to bust her for pro play while leaving her pretty mediocre for the average player, and that's prolly what happened.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 11
Glad you're addressing funneling seriously and quickly, even if it's a little heavy-handed. Any concerns about this gimping the carrying ability of soloq junglers who get ahead through early kills, though? I can imagine this hurting some of their more extreme success cases (especially those who would splitpush after getting fed). I assume you think it's worth the tradeoff, since the amount of cases affected is low?
: Conqueror Change: From True Damage to "Ignores 100% Of Armor and Magic Resist"
tl;dr: ninja tabi and similar effects would be much better against conqueror than before
Xwar2402 (EUW)
: Why someone who was bronze during all his life and achieve his pick as Silver V could give any kind of good informations btw ?
It doesn't take a rank to read statistics, mate. Glad you're having success on Sej. Doesn't change that you're a statistical outlier, however, and I also can't see when you played your Sej games either (what patches you played on is kinda important to your point).
: Really? Because my teammate got bubbled and I blocked the paddle for them and we BOTH took the chunk
he stood too close = / it does damage in a small aoe
Shaydrox (EUW)
: The Talon nerfs are completely wrong
Talon is ASol/Old Taliyah v2 right now once he gets a tiamat. They're directly hitting his waveclear because it's what makes him so strong. It's only low elo Talon that really profits off his ability to oneshot; if that were all he had, he'd be pretty easy to outplay at high elo because he has obvious engage ranges unless he runs at you invis from fog (which isn't very likely to oneshot you unless Talon is already ahead). However, Talon is *stronger than ever* in high elo, and it's because once he buys a tiamat, he starts instantly clearing waves and providing a fuckton of map pressure with his mobility. His roam pressure is massive and the threshold to get his waveclear is very low–it's honestly better than mages not named ASol. Talon just gets lane priority for free and just shows up at every skirmish that happens instantly, exactly like old Taliyah, and Riot has continuously been removing that from the game. tl;dr: his waveclear really is the problem, so this is the right change
Hayaishi (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Bern,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UnO1bjEZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-09T21:02:28.273+0000) > > At least someone can block the paddle star for you after you take the bubble. If Zoe were really the equivalent of old Nid, taking the bubble alone would force you to base. > > They're definitely very similar, but it's a two-step process instead of a one-step process, at least. I mean if you take into consideration the other aspects of her kit she's even worse. All Nidalee had over her is mobility
AP Nidalee's heal also made her a one-champion siege engine. Zoe overall has a stronger kit by far (e.g., her laning is lightyears better than AP Nidalee's ever was), I agree; but if it's about siege and poke alone, I think old Nid wins no contest.
: why should 48% be necessarily bad? not every enchanter has to be broken.
The more disturbing statistic for Lulu is how low her support winrate is *on players who are good at Lulu.* By lolalytics's measurements, it's about 52.9%, which is only better than Karma, Shen, Voli, Nautilus, and Ornn. *MF support* does better on this metric. (Meanwhile, Janna actually still leads this metric even post-nerf. Janna btw)
: She can be good in soloq
Statistically, she's pretty trashcan -- trashcan enough to be bronze in lolalytics tiers (actually ranked 140th by the site btw) and have a 47% WR for plat+ and a 46.5% WR for diamond+. Meanwhile, she's getting picked a pretty staggering amount in competitive. That's a really disturbing gap.
Hayaishi (NA)
: Zoe is pretty much old Nidalee.
At least someone can block the paddle star for you after you take the bubble. If Zoe were really the equivalent of old Nid, taking the bubble alone would force you to base. They're definitely very similar, but it's a two-step process instead of a one-step process, at least.
Rioter Comments
Lilithh (NA)
: "Shut up noobs ad itemization isnt superior"
What a bait topic. * Nullifying orb is pretty common on Cass/ASol/etc. * Zhonya's is disgusting; armguard is insanely stat-efficient (150% or so) once stacked * AP itemization has a pretty decent chunk of HP on it, so any resist items get more value * Seraph's active * Banshee's Veil AP champions have a lot of defensive options. = /
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 6
Wanted to say prototype Liss passive looks really unique and hits an interesting designspace. Hope it ships.
: New BbTrox: Bully become bullied
Aatrox is a lane counterpick into immobile tanks, pretty much. Mundo especially.
Vekkna (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Bern,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TzPEop4K,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-07-03T08:16:27.818+0000) > > This is true, but it's benign. The amount of space you have to make a champion unique in their kit is fairly small, and as the roster expands, champions NEED to do **very** unique things to ensure there's a reason to pick them. If there's nothing significantly unique, you just pick someone who does something similar with better stats (and there's a lot of that in the game right now). I fundamentally disagree with both you and Riot (since it's their position) on this point. In fact, it's the *differentiation* that is causing problems, not stagnation. Remember during the S6 mage update when they started tinkering with Vel, Brand, Annie, Zyra, etc for no reason? Now what makes them "unique" is 4-figure true damage, insane passive % max hp damage, a toxic revenge passive, and RNG plant spawns. What Riot fails to appreciate is that a champion's theme and "feel" are compelling reasons to play a champion. They don't need any unique kit mechanic to be fun, appealing, and worthy of a spot on the roster. In fact, as Riot becomes increasingly desperate to find unique mechanics, the less enjoyable the champs become. A good example of this is Jax vs Irelia. Before her rework, there wasn't any clear gameplay reason to pick one over the other. They both did largely the same thing, and one was usually objectively better or worse than the other. In my opinion, **that's completely fine!** The reason you pick Irelia was because her concept was badass, and her sound effects were sickening. Jax is just a big minion with a lamp post bonking things on the noggin. That's enough for a lot of players to prefer one over the other. The same could be said about Yi and pre-rework Fiora. Or J4 and Lee. Or Evelynn, Shaco, and Knife-Cat. Or Viktor, Vel, Ziggs. Or Lux and Xerath. Sometimes the "reason to pick them" is **BECAUSE YOU LIKE THEM!** Not because one is marginally better at the same job. Beyond that, Riot isn't even consistent with their own philosophy on this. Look what they did to Kat, for instance. Right now there is literally no reason to *ever* pick her over Fizz, Leblanc, or Talon. They gave her a bunch of unique mechanics, and in doing so deleted her unique niche in the assassin roster and with it the reasons for picking her. Unless you just like her theme, that is. Sorry for the rant, but I personally believe that this misguided notion of "unique is better" is a blight on the game. If I'm being charitable, Riot just isn't very good at distinguishing between uniqueness that evolves the game and "uniqueness" that exists for its own sake (eg gimmicks like Kat, Zyra) or is too rule-breaking to be healthy (Zoe). There is *nothing* Riot will not sacrifice for the sake of a superficially unique mechanic, including smooth gameplay, fun, accessibility, game health, champion identity, and the loyal mains of niche champs.
I understand your point of view, but your point of view also entails leaving some champions as strictly worse versions of other champions. I just can't get behind that, and it feels like it does everyone a disservice. I think part of the pain is that this situation was caused by Riot just pumping out similar champions at a rapid pace early in the game's lifespan. People got used to and liked champions with kits that were *barely different* from other champions in their role, just because it was what they were given. Sure, that attachment is hard to get over. But I'm sure if Riot could do it over, they wouldn't have put out those flawed designs, and people would've gotten just as attached to the better designs they ultimately ended up with. = /
: There are champions that basically represent the major issues with LoL.
There's one point worth picking out here: * Champions are forced to either break the game in their favor when it comes to their unique qualities or they will be obsolete and forgotten for a while. This is true, but it's benign. The amount of space you have to make a champion unique in their kit is fairly small, and as the roster expands, champions NEED to do **very** unique things to ensure there's a reason to pick them. If there's nothing significantly unique, you just pick someone who does something similar with better stats (and there's a lot of that in the game right now). Zoe is currently overtuned, but she does a passable job of giving a reason to pick her based on kit design alone, and she'll probably remain viable as long as her numbers aren't completely gutted. That's good, not bad.
: Can you nerf Taliyah without affecting her Midlane?
I like Taliyah as much as the next guy, but Taliyah's mid winrate is sitting at a disturbingly respectable 51.75% (with onetricks hitting the 60% mark ez). Mid Taliyah is probably still overtuned. That being said, Mid Taliyah's winrate is probably going to be pretty fragile, because her biggest asset atm in solo queue is her damage and not her ridiculously strong roam. They're probably trying to limit her access to damage early without nerfing the damage itself. This does hurt her wave control, and I think hurting her wave control further might sink her, but who knows?
: Defense is mathematically inferior to damage
That's, in general, because the game would be screwed if damage didn't outscale tankiness. The game would scale into wet noodle fights. You're also ignoring the amount of flat damage reductions (boneplating), HP (grasp, overgrowth), and resistances (aftershock) available from runes.
Rioter Comments
: Tenacity is useless
Play against Morgana and say that again.
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Bern

Level 64 (NA)
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