: Community Patch Notes
I think this thread says a lot about why you shouldn't crowdsource balance. BUFFING ASOL LUL
Rioter Comments
Durfain (EUW)
: We could really use a second AP/armor item
It's a balance thing to make sure mages can still be punished for positioning poorly. There's also the issue that if you had two AP/AR items, you'd astronomically increase the strength of all the existing HP/AP items.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: kalista's kit was always balanced around dealing less damage than other adcs she brings too much utility and when you're mobile you need to deal less damage that's why her autoattacks deals 90% ad rather than 100% I would rather have them remove the dash penality when slowed, now that she has 525 range it can be done
Her AAs deal less because her damage is backloaded into rend, not because she's supposed to just do less damage. And yeah, she's arguably lacking damage because she lost target access when she lost range. She probably lost the most from having rend harass gutted in lane, not the range nerf, but Riot's never giving that back.
: Can we nerf Kai'sa?
Kai'sa isn't busted overall when you look at powerlevel over gametime. Other carries have better winrates overall, and better winrates in the hands of their best players. However, she just scales really fucking hard on the AP build -- harder than other carries do after the IEdge nerf -- so she can feel kind of unfair when she's ahead. Getting there is rough, though, and she really needs all three of her core items to come online.
: Save a mouse, improve right-click-holding
Would actually really appreciate this, considering how much hand strain repetitive clicks entail.
Rioter Comments
: Critical Strike increases the damage you deal from your basic attacks based on a chance (in theory.) Since no one in the game EVER starts with 0 AD, Critical Strike will ALWAYS be increasing your damage. Sure, building AD items increases that damage, but Critical Strike is never useless because there is always damage for it to increase.
It increases your damage, but very inefficiently unless you're Yasuo. Let's say you have about 80 AD from runes/levels/etc. Getting another 80 AD (for a total of 160) is the equivalent of having 100% crit on your 80 AD, and it also increases spell damage, which crit generally does not. The math is not on your side. Crit isn't very good for damage until it's more efficient to double your effective AD with crit than buy AD. (It's worth noting that some of the utility options on zeal items are good for increasing your real-world DPS, and most AD items don't have AS and movespeed, but yeah.)
Rioter Comments
: Zeal items were already super cost efficient to begin with. Hence the increase in pricing. Dropping their price, or making them cost efficient at their current price directly contradicts the fixes to their previous problems.
Zeal items were cost efficient but offered stats that were useless without accompanying stat-sticks. Now they're pretty much useless unless you build the worst stat-stick in the game (IE) and they're cost-inefficient on top.
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14
Any reason you're not bumping the cost-efficiency of zeal items back up to help out crit ADs? One of the big common denominators between the power ADs right now (Kai'sa, Ez, Lucian -- to a lesser extent, Draven and MF) is they can all dodge zeal items and be okay. Also, re: gold funneling: I think any approach that penalizes junglers taking lane minions might overly warp lower elo gameplay (since there is a large tendency for junglers to take waves regardless of if a laner is coming for them or not) or punish splitpushing junglers like Udyr overly hard. I admittedly don't have any good ideas -- especially because the situation was caused by an influx of smaller changes -- but I'd be really hesitant to change the amount of XP junglers get from lane minions. Also, any plans to reduce the amount of level 2 ganks from junglers? It feels like level 2 presence is starting to warp the game a lot (and the KZ game the other day where Camille got 2, ganked bot for a kill, and then went straight mid and ganked for a kill when she was still level 2 is weighing heavily on my mind as an example of something that probably shouldn't be happening). How good your level 2 is also determines whether or not you're a viable jungler overmuch, so it's kind of a diversity issue now too. EDIT: Re: gold funneling, what about preventing relic from sharing with people who have a jungle item? It's kind of ad hoc, but then again, so was locking jungle items to smite and making support/jungle items mutually exclusive. Guess there's concerns about intuitivity, but maybe you could make it so you have to bind a partner for relic (like vow/convergence) to share gold, and you can't bind someone with a jungle item? Could make it so that you can share with anyone once either your quest is completed or you reach the final upgrade for the item.
: "If You're Good Enough, You Will Climb"
When you've got two or more feeders, chill, play your best, and don't worry about it too much because you're going to lose games of League no matter what. Just remember that climbing only requires you to win more games than you lose -- and that doesn't mean you need to win every game or even a particularly significant majority. Any positive winrate will climb.
: PSA: average game times at patch 8.11 ranged from 27min (low mmr) to 23min (high mmr)
Doesn't solve the issue where they all powertrough horrifically on second item (because stormrazor+zeal really isn't all that hot) and infinity edge has the single worst buildpath in the game
: Are they nerfing ardent too or something? Doesn't ardent buff still persist even if the shield is broken?
It's getting a slight reduction to the +heals/shields stat. The thing I'm talking about isn't a direct numbers thing; it's a consequence of reducing shield duration. Using a shield just for the ardent buff (which is pretty common to try to maximize ardent uptime) is more dangerous if shield durations are lower.
Rioter Comments
: * Heals vs. Shields. * Lack of Q mobility. * Slower, telegraphed abilities rather than faster abilities. * More dive focus rather than more brawl focus. * No finishing move.
Because there are like fifty threads like mine now (but more accusatory and saltier), I felt like I should at least say thanks for a decent response to my question. Thanks ^^
: > [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xHHl24nZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-12T20:24:57.344+0000) > > They have literally nothing in common. Its like saying thresh, pyke, blitz and naut are all the same champ because Q pulls the enemy champion. I think the only way her q and his q are the same is the triple cast. His are slower swings, has a built in little mini game, and he doesn’t move forward. It is a unique q for both but different.
He can dash with it by using e at the same time, though, I believe.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
iTaLenTZ (EUW)
: FYI: Critbased adc's are still the best lategame scaling champs and therefore shouldn't be buffed
Scaling means literally nothing if you can't get there. And crit adcs scale pretty abysmally on realistic gold incomes and backs. Regardless of the state of the game, the way a crit AD needs to build to be effective can't be built, and crit ADs come online at shitty times relative to the power curve of everyone else in the game. You simply cannot play for that late in League of Legends, regardless of the meta. The biggest issue for crit ADs is honestly the price of zeal items. Stormrazor is a really good first item spike for old IE-first champs that don't like BoRK, but your power curve nosedives the second you try to buy a zeal item because they're so goddamn shitty now (and there's literally nothing else to buy). Zeal items were cheap previously because they're legitimately awful for damage by themselves; now they're still awful by themselves, but also awful with other items because of the price hit. Stormrazor>zeal item basically tickles for the amount of gold you have to sink into getting it. It's stupid. Meanwhile, anyone who can dodge buying zeal items is alright. I find it pretty funny, because the 8.8 MSI meta was rageblade carries and ezreal. Then we nerfed... crit ADCs. ...And the meta is now rageblade carries and Ezreal, with Lucian added in because of new Essence Reaver (and maybe, rarely, lethality carries in solo queue). Nice meme.
: So Let's Talk About Tryn & Why You Shouln't Buff Him
it's called CC and fadeaway ignite. Tryn is in a horrifically bad place right now. His design is kind of outdated anyways and they just gutted his itemization so abd he can't do much of anything. He actually needs help.
Kivolan (NA)
: What The Hell Are These Celerity Changes?
It actually gives it a niche instead of it just being a generically good pick for everyone. There's a real problem right now where celerity is effectively just functioning as movespeed creep.
Meddler (NA)
: I think positions having a range of classes be playable in them is a good thing for the game in terms of variety of experience it offers and strategic depth. That shouldn't mean an all or nothing situation, with a class or significant chunk of a class, left with nowhere to play either though. It also doesn't necessarily mean the bruisers/mages in question are necessarily appropriately balanced and have sufficient counterplay to be reasonable to lane against.
Do you guys have concerns about champ select becoming a blur of flex picks in exchange for the diversity? While this is a very experimental stage in the development of the meta, watching a challenger stream and seeing an enemy team picking Yasuo/Camille/Irelia/Jayce/Pyke (or something similar) is... interesting, to say the least. (Even if this comp probably isn't good, the questions raised by said comp feel pretty real.)
: Ok I did a little more testing. IE+Stormrazor+PD is more DPS vs the dummy than Rageblade+Stormrazor+LDR Looks like Stormrazor is just a really strong early/mid item and crit is still the best for Jinx.
No one is going to buy PD as their only zeal item on Jinx unless they're really locked into 1v1ing someone on the enemy team, or they're getting dove constantly but not instakilled. You need to realistically test with RFC or Hurricane. You also need to understand the real kicker, which is that rageblade+stormrazor+ldr is 500g cheaper than your build and 600g cheaper than having RFC or hurricane. It's also going to spike harder when you complete the rageblade than when you complete the zeal item, and Infinity Edge is so hard to actually buy because of its shitty buildpath that you're forced to start to question why the crit exists like it does right now. The only upside to having zeal items is the movespeed/utility (e.g. RFC range for poke rockets is really good, hurricane for aoe rockets is really good). In terms of raw DPS they're just really lackluster at current. This is reflected very well in plat+ champion winrates: MF, Lucian, Draven, Kai'sa, Jhin, and Ezreal are at or above 50%, and everyone else is below 50%. (Incidentally, this also implies that Rageblade champions in general aren't overtuned -- possibly just Kai'sa, and Kai'sa's patch winrate has been steadily declining since they wrecked her passive.) Realistically, I don't think the issue is IE being bad either; I think IE may as well not exist now for build purposes, unless you're so fed the game is over anyways. (This is true for roughly the same reasons that mids tend not to buy deathcap.) The issue is that crit champions get an alright one item spike at stormrazor and then their scaling just goes to the trashcan for their zeal item and then they're probably behind and will never have the gold income to finish an item as awkward as infinity edge. Meanwhile, Lucian et al have good powercurves. Crit champions just scale badly and don't get to scale. EDIT: I mean that their scaling doesn't -have- to be IE, but they were presented no other good options
Madsin25 (NA)
: ???? Coupe de grace? Last stand? Cut down? Please.
Yes, those runes leblanc will never take over inspiration or sorcery secondary. Do you even know how to look up rune winrates? EDIT: And I mean things that are literally always on, like the old double edged- sword, sorcery, etc.
: how the hell are people upvoting this, not only could you not get more mpen than mr from the old runes, lebanc didn't have sudden impact last season, which gives 8 fucking mpen
> [{quoted}](name=Giga Baboon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0VqG1foE,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-06-06T13:06:44.867+0000) > > how the hell are people upvoting this, not only could you not get more mpen than mr from the old runes, lebanc didn't have sudden impact last season, which gives 8 fucking mpen there also aren't any flat % damage increases on ability damage from runes/masteries now if you really want the issue with why things feel like they do so much damage, it's more to do with runes proccing for more damage but on a higher cooldown -- e.g. scorch is a fuckton of damage (like 30 at level 1?) but the CD is 20s. Electrocute is literally 50 flat at level 1 with better AD/AP scaling than thunderlord's (thunderlord's was 10 per level), but electrocute's level 1 CD is 50 seconds and thunderlord's was 25. etc. like straight up, scorch does more damage than thunderlord's used to for the first few levels of the game on a similar CD
: ok look crit is still the highest DPS for her https://puu.sh/AzYOn/2074dc2340.png as you can see stacking pure AD by itself is pretty weak in scaling LDR doesn't matter at full build vs a 100 armor target apparently edit: Here are some 3 item builds: https://puu.sh/AzZ7t/e3e755bad5.png I would choose the stormrazor + crit build for the crit rocket pokes even though for on-paper DPS rageblade + crit is the best by a little bit The problem is you were testing some of your builds at 3 items with LDR. Getting LDR that early depends entirely upon enemy armor.
> [{quoted}](name=Khristophoros,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7uExsLj,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-06T06:01:36.517+0000) > > ok look crit is still the highest DPS for her > > https://puu.sh/AzYOn/2074dc2340.png > > as you can see stacking pure AD by itself is pretty weak in scaling > > LDR doesn't matter at full build vs a 100 armor target apparently > > edit: Here are some 3 item builds: https://puu.sh/AzZ7t/e3e755bad5.png > > I would choose the stormrazor + crit build for the crit rocket pokes even though for on-paper DPS rageblade + crit is the best by a little bit > > The problem is you were testing some of your builds at 3 items with LDR. Getting LDR that early depends entirely upon enemy armor. LDR doesn't depend on enemy armor at all. It's literally total armor pen. It's effective against everyone. For god's sake, a normal mage with hourglass has around 100 AR at level 11, and most champions end the game with 80+ just from levels. LDR is an item that's good against everyone at a certain point. EDIT: It is literally AD Void Staff. Do you skip void staff because the enemy team isn't building MR? No -- hell, sometimes, that's -more- of a reason to keep buying into pen. IT's the same here. Once you get to a certain point, the armor pen is just better for increasing your damage.
: ok look crit is still the highest DPS for her https://puu.sh/AzYOn/2074dc2340.png as you can see stacking pure AD by itself is pretty weak in scaling LDR doesn't matter at full build vs a 100 armor target apparently edit: Here are some 3 item builds: https://puu.sh/AzZ7t/e3e755bad5.png I would choose the stormrazor + crit build for the crit rocket pokes even though for on-paper DPS rageblade + crit is the best by a little bit The problem is you were testing some of your builds at 3 items with LDR. Getting LDR that early depends entirely upon enemy armor.
> [{quoted}](name=Khristophoros,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7uExsLj,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-06T06:01:36.517+0000) > > ok look crit is still the highest DPS for her > > https://puu.sh/AzYOn/2074dc2340.png > > as you can see stacking pure AD by itself is pretty weak in scaling > > LDR doesn't matter at full build vs a 100 armor target apparently I find it curious that you immediately went to full build when I stated two non-full builds. (Full build is probably also the least relevant dps timing in the game; one and two item spikes matter much more, and IE is borderline unbuildable early.) You also didn't test IE/RFC/Stormrazor/Rageblade/LDR, which is notable for being sub 100% crit and doing at least the same damage as a 100% crit build. That should raise some questions. You also so severely overcap on AS on some of those builds that you should be checking rocket dps (especially since your DPS uncaps after kill on minigun and that DPS will be very relevant). Rocket DPS on the build with rageblade instead of one crit item is over 100 DPS higher than IE/hurricane/pd/stormrazor/ldr, for instance. I absolutely wish I were wrong on this shit, but I'm not. It's depressing and stupid. Also, stacking pure AD obviously sucks ass. The point wasn't that stacking AD is good; it's that the point at which crit and AS outshines just buying more ad and AS is REALLY FUCKING LATE (as in 4 or 5 items late) because of rageblade. And even then, since I can't test this with BoRK on a dummy (which scales nice and nutso with rageblade), *it's not at all clear crit will actually pull ahead, either*.
: The only actual test you did was flawed and now you're just talking out of your ass.
I tested a bunch of different things. Only one can fit in a clickbait title. Welcome to life. EDIT: And crit is, for the purpose of calculating DPS, like a flat % increase to your autos. You know what else does that? ...Flat AD. So no, I'm not talking out of my ass. This is pretty basic. The problem is just that without IE giving 250% crit damage, the point at which buying crit outclasses buying AD for the purposes of increasing damage comes MUCH later than it used to, especially when the gold value per point of crit got damaged and the gold value per point of AD stayed the same. If you really don't believe me, start doing some math. You'll quickly find this isn't a fairy tale.
: "We're gonna take away MR glyphs and then we're gonna revert Leblanc"
it's almost like they removed mpen glyphs from the game at the same time so there's almost no actual change
: Well that's because the dummy has 100 armor and you bought LDR on one build, but not the other.
you see, the problem is that builds that involve 100% crit actually continue to scale similarly to the stormrazor build even once they get ldr and even before this, stormrazor+rageblade gives about the same dps on that dummy as IE plus a zeal item ldr isn't the problem the problem is that without old IE's 250% multiplier, getting more AD and also some AS is the same as getting some amount of crit and AS for the purposes of DPS, and you're not going to hit the point where buying crit over AD would be more beneficial anytime soon with the current price of crit and the %AD rageblade scaling
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Fefnil (EUW)
: Why Pyke is having trouble as support (spoiler: he has a big size Relic Shield)
tbh, the problem is people are building lethality on a support build tankier items like ga/hexdrinker/currently busted banner so you can actually cc people in fights and use your kit, and you'll be k even if he can't build health, the hp regen he gets while unseen means resists still get a lot of value on him
Rioter Comments
Risen29 (NA)
: Ultimate Hat change was a terrible idea
Domination is an unattractive tree unless you're an assassin, period. If you can't benefit from sudden impact, you probably don't want to be in the domination tree.
: Where did all the people saying the nerfs to crit ADCs were buffs?
Buffed on first item, nerfed on second and third; %total pen is still a buff come time to buy LDR People need to get used to the second coming of S3/early S4 meta where the goal is just to powerspike faster than the other guy and make the enemy laner eat shit and be unable to buy their items
: >On the first day of the patch, for example, QT was convinced Stormrazor was garbage even though it's one of the dumbest items Riot's ever released. It's kind of garbage though, well on Marksman anyway since you need to wait to constantly proc it, something Marksman don't oftenly do or would be willing to do because it would pose a risk to them being engaged on. It's just an excuse item to buff Assassins.
It's good for lane harass, basically. Too bad it's the clunkiest item I've ever seen. The proc CD isn't that bad if you also have zerker's, honestly
: Vayne is outclassed
Vayne has been outclassed since they removed autoing after condemn years ago.
: PLASMA AP RATIO 0.2/0.25/0.3/0.35/0.4 (for stacks 1-5) ⇒ 0.1/0.125/0.15/0.175/0.2 (for stacks 1-5) A 40% ap ratio on her passive + Nashor's + Rageblade double-proccing **both** _plus_ the % health on the 5th proc is not okay. It just isn't. Whatever way you slice it, the numbers were crazy and Riot hotfixed it, and rightfully so. Sorry if it ruined your fun, fam.
the AP ratio is one thing, and that's justified by how overbearing the dcap build is, but they also gutted the flat damage, and that really hurts every kai'sa buildpath PLASMA BASE ON-HIT DAMAGE 7-12 at levels 1-16 ⇒ 4-10 at levels 1-16 PLASMA PER-STACK DAMAGE 1-9 at levels 1-17 ⇒ 1-5 at levels 1-17 that's a really big loss of on-hit per auto between the two
: They can't interact if the champion doesn't have crazy AP ratios and synergy with it. Riot hotfixed it, and rightfully so.
I just mean it looks like they fixed a symptom and not a problem, considering what AP Varus did in the past. EDIT: And they also did it in a way that damages the powercurve for all her builds, too, which is mainly what I take issue with. I don't think rageblade>crit kai'sa was going to be good this patch even before the hotfixes
: AP {{champion:145}} is dominating in high elo atm, rocking around a 68% win rate. Build is {{item:3124}} {{item:3115}} {{item:3089}} and the damage is disgusting.
This smacks to me more of issues with how rageblade and dcap interact. The damage looks a lot like how AP Varus was, where he just auto'd you three times and popped you past a certain point.
: Because Riot Meddler has already said in the Gameplay thoughts that Kai'Sa is still overperforming when compared to literally every Marksman. Have you played against the current Essence Reaver Kai'Sa, it's terrifying.
It also has a way worse winrate than AP Kai'sa did, so wakaran. ER is questionable on champs with long ult CDs, and Kai'sa's is decently long. It's also a dead-end item that doesn't scale her very much and gives her 300 useless mana. I'm sure essence flare by itself is strong, but she got better things as the game went on just buying AP. Saying a champ is overperforming early into a patch with a lot of changes is idiotic. On the first day of the patch, for example, QT was convinced Stormrazor was garbage even though it's one of the dumbest items Riot's ever released. The expectation for me is that as people get better at lane bullying in a patch that's kind to lane bullies, Kai'sa will naturally drop off in winrate as it gets harder and harder for her to get out of lane. And when you first item spike at 3400 instead of 3200, being at a CS deficit (which Kai'sa should be) is a lot more damning when other people are buying BoRK and Stormrazor and ER and can shove those spikes down your throat.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: IS DIANA GETTING AN AD NERF???
They removed the AD nerf on PBE, but kept the AS buff.
Eyesack (NA)
: If adc items are going to be nerfed...
The ad nerf pushes powerspikes from two items to one item, not two to three. Ain't no one buying IE first (or second, for that matter, unless you're desperately behind). Have you -seen- Stormrazor and the new ER? Have you seen that BoRK is now 3200? Those are absolutely one item powerspikes.
Rioter Comments
: The whole purpose of the jungle nerf was that junglers were level 3 with both buffs and full health against a level 2 laner. That was the problem.
You say that like getting level 1 ganked by a level 2 jungler is better.
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Bern

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