: Everything IMO that's amiss about Sion's lore
None of Sion's lore is contradictory or needs change. Boram has long been known to have extended his life via magic, the timelines add up. Everything is pretty clear really, Boram was obviously aware of the demon in the Immortal Bastion and that's why he warned Sion about ravens. Sion is a fucking giant of a man and the greatest warrior in Noxian history, IN ADDITION to being a close friend of Boram himself, who we already know has dabbled in necromancy/life-extending magic. Of course he would try to resurrect Sion, and of course Swain would take advantage of the insane monster locked inside his monument (as long as he can be controlled). The Shadow Isles dagger required Elise's involvement to acquire, so it may not have been possible to fully restore Sion the first time. Or more likely, the Black Rose simply wasn't much of a fan of Boram and didn't want to do more than lip service. Noxus won the battle where Sion died, so getting his body back when its literally just outside of the capital city wouldn't be an issue. As far as Swain, all of the descriptions still match up as Swain does in fact still have a hurt leg and a brace. Not mentioning the lost arm might be strange, but might not considering he still has one, it's just demony. And no, The Mountain's death and Sion's are quite different. Duel vs. battlefield. Sion wasn't outmatched by Jarvan like the Mountain was, Sion was just massively outnumbered, single-handedly breaking through the King's bodyguards and choking him to death before dying. Unless you think the trope of "two warriors killing each other" is a super unique trope (it's not) The only lore bits that may need some change are Demacians assaulting the Immortal Bastion as that's pretty unlikely (although could easily have been before Noxus was much of an empire, during a failed invasion of Demacia) and MAYBE Boram's title. Grand General could easily still have been a title for Boram, even if just a secondary one, like Commander-in-Chief Now don't get me wrong, I'd love more Sion lore, but what is there needs little-to-no change
: Nautilus lore - what's most important to you?
A lot of people have touched on this, but I believe Nautilus needs to retain his mystery. Currently in his lore, we have almost no clue what changed him, what he is now, what even resides inside the suit. He is thalassophobia personified into a champion. The horror of the deep dredged up. I really don't want Riot to heavily explain what changed him, and I really don't want him to be related to a known entity. I know it's likely that Nagakabouros will be related to him in some way, but I think we would really benefit from either leaving whatever changed him completely open-ended, or making it something... other. Not Void, not Darkin, not Demon. He should remain mysterious, lost. His VO is amazing. It has such a haunting, depressed but moving forward feel to it. He shouldn't be an evil character, but I don't think he should be a hero either. He's full of anger at his betrayal, but that anger has gone cold in the years he's been trudging on the ocean floor. He's trying to move on while at the same time holding onto his human past (literally in the case of the anchor)
GothicV2 (NA)
: Anyone else not impressed with the new Frostblade Irelia's ass?
Yeah I think the splash could use some more booty. The in game skin is fantasstic though. Goddamn
: It's on sale for it's release. Once it comes off sale, it will go to full price at 3250.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=zZRoH8m7,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-06T16:22:34.800+0000) > > It's on sale for it's release. Once it comes off sale, it will go to full price at 3250. Actually they stated in the State of Skins Dev Blog that that is not the case. They recognize the skin doesn't bring something to the same level as the others, so it will stay cheaper than all other Ultimate skins.
Bârd (NA)
: Can we expect MF to get a new VO of similar quality to GG MF?
Now would be the perfect time to give MF a new VO, seeing as how they already brought in the voice actor. If not now, then when?
: Since Swain got a really good skin along with his rework
: Im not religious but I know demons exist and riot games works close with them All the new champs and the reworked ones have connections to demons. Kayn, Varus. Evelynn is a succubus etc many more. Zoe is pretty evil and sick if you understand her. Poor annie lol. Item names are actually demon name. Abbadon for example is a powerful demon. Hope u guys understand what you are saying/spell ing / casting to yoir world. Little children who play this game unintentionally summon demons
There is nothing named after Abaddon in league. Demons in League aren’t the same as those in Christian tradition. League is about as demonic as Harry Potter (it’s not)
Jackom1 (EUW)
: Given the complexity of the setting, I'd say that a total war like game would fit best. A starcraft-like game would warp scales a lot, and I can see it being made mainly for competitive games, and I'd like to avoid that. Also, it would probably come down to a fight between the two games (starcraft and the lol-RTS), which is just a waste of creativity. I'd like a strategy game that tries to blend the elements of warring and managin a nation, which would work differently for each of the factions involved. Economy, Military, Politics, Diplomatics, are all things that can be explored in such a game, and we can already read something about that in the Universe section. It may also help explore the fact that all factions, even demacia, aren't either bad or evil, but a mix of greys. Demacia could be a kingdom with a small but well trained army, with solid, defensive lines of soldiers and strong cavalry, with ways to weaken the use of magic in battle. Economically, they'd be a prosperous yet not-too-open nation, that relies more on the prosperity of its own land than on commerce with other nations. It would be a nation that would use diplomacy and war in equal measure, depending on the faction their dealing with. Politically it'd be your average middle-age kingdom, with many characters discussing the king's right to rule, but being at risk of popular insurrection if the masses aren't fed Noxus on the other hand, would be way more warlike, but not the kind that razes every village in its wake, it would incorporate as many defeated opponents as possible, like the Roman republic (not the empire, since Noxus isn't ruled by a single person, nor should it be IMO). It would rely more on a network of spies than actual diplomats, but even noxus can't make war with everything around it, some you fight, some you talk. Economically it would rely a lot on tithes from the defeated nations, and a bit less from commerce, though more than demacia I think. Politically it would be more dinamic than demacia, but not a mess of backstabbing, more of a "house of cards" game between the higher-ups, with the heads of Noxus sometimes having to re-clarify who is ruling. Also Black rose stuff. Pretty numerous army, but still organised into proper formatons, with generals also possibly playing against each other in order to rise in prestige. To these obvious facionts, without which such a game could hardly exist, I'd add the shadow isles, Shurima and possibly the freljord. I'd like shurima to be an empire under the rule of Azir, with an army that is relies on chariots and arches, and sand soldiers, to show that real azir doesn't summon 2-3 guys at a time, he can really summon huge armies from the sands. Also, exotics creatures and magic (something that also noxus would do, but in a different fashion). Politically it would be pretty stable, at the start of the game there could be a lot of regions that would question the divinity of azir, but once they're claimed, they won't ever question the authority of the god-emperor of the sands. In terms of resources it would be unique, in that the emperor, together with other powerful sorcerers, could be able to create oasis from nothing, but without totally bypassing the fact that shurima is first of all desert, a harsh, unforgiving land. The shadow isles would be very interesting, since they wouldn't be a living nation. Maybe you rule as the ruined king, or as a conclave of mighty undead (some of which we may already know). Either way, you'd have to manage the flow of the mists, you'd focusing on corrupting adjacent regions, your armies would be without number, probably the most numerous, but they wouldn't be able to exist at all outsides of the mist, save for some elite squads, and "diplomatic figures" (wraiths, banshees or necromancers). There could still be some dinamic "diplomacy", with powerful undead thinking they can be in charge, or other kinds of infighting, especially if there is nothing to kill for a while. The freljord could be a single faction led by both ashe and sejuani, less refined than the other factions, but just as strong, especially in close combat. they'd have few, but very powerful mages who can harness the cold magic of the north (also maybe runes). Diplomatically you'd have to manage the constant tensions between avarosans and the winter's claw, otherwise your faction would crumble altogether. One group is ruthless but knows respect, the other is peaceful but won't be silent if un-heard. The army would be split in two wide groups, accordingly: sometimes it's better if you choose just one of them, to avoid tensions, other times you just need them both together, to face a powerful enemy army. Economically they'd probably rely a lot on sacking enemy factions (avarosans don't like it, but their land isn't rich and they know it). From what you can see, I'd go for a high scale (political) gameplay, rather than one centered on single characters, but it does depend on the faction. And no campaing made of mission, or, being an RTS, it'd just be a drawn out tutorial, something I really don't like. Sorry, i got veeeery carried away. It's just that I've come to like the setting of lol quite a lot.
Ugh I would love this so much. I'm a huge fan of total war in general, and just the way the armies could work from these really cool factions that Riot has set up would be sooooooooo cool.
Quepha (NA)
: What could possibly be worse than taking players who are engaged with the story and turning them away forever? If you were on Riot's writing team and your desire was to sabotage the company by fulfilling the responsibilities of your job, then wouldn't that be your ultimate goal?
Except there's literally zero evidence that lore has become a "failure" and people aren't engaged. These boards are a very small subsection of players in general, weighted towards people complaining. People who actually like the lore and the direction of the game don't post here. People are usually more motivated to post by something they dislike than by something they like
: (I'm having trouble keeping up with the comments. 'Pologies.) So you say immersion would be key - that the gameplay would come second to the sense of place. What about a so-called walking sim then? Few games can beat them for immersion and environmental storytelling, after all - but many people find that they go too-far along the spectrum of game/story for their personal preferences. Where do you stand? GW2 = Guild Wars 2? Just making sure I'm not mistaking another game for it. You also talk about being a person in Runeterra - what fantasies would you want to support? For an extreme example, some people might want to run a potion shop in a sleepy Demacian village (like the Atelier series, or Recettear). Others might want to explore Shuriman ruins, Tomb Raider style. Yet other players might want to live the fantasy of running a vicious Zaun gang, controlling territory and dealing in Shimmer. Some games try to let you do a little bit of everything, usually resulting in each individual mechanic being quite shallow or clunky - breadth over depth. Would you, personally, want to see that style, over possibly going deeper on one specific fantasy? Most folks in this thread who want an RPG seem to fall into the usual trope of "You play as an adventurer, go on a fighty adventure, get XP, get loot. Repeat." Don't get me wrong - I too love a dungeon bash or a high fantasy adventure - but there are a lot more player fantasies out there, so many different ways to immerse a player in Runeterra. Wanted to see what others felt.
Just to chime in, I think that what you're saying about supporting different fantasies could be a positive to the game. Let's say the game releases with somewhere around 3 "campaigns" with different stories and different protagonists. Perhaps the stories are heavily intertwined, perhaps they only lightly touch on each other. And then you can continue to add to this world, and to the story with different protagonists released as expansions. Like League, it can continue to evolve over time, and I'd suggest the same art-style used for League to keep that sense of timelessness as graphics improve. Zelda BotW does this perfectly, I think.
: You know what; to heck with it, let's chat about this. So after seeing the Noxian stuff, you want a game about Noxus - what sort of game are you talking about? Now understand that I can't say if Riot is working on anything, nor can I make promises if any of you come up with something astoundingly awesome - but let's have a convo about this now, while we're on the topic, to get a feel for what the Story, Art and Sound board population would want to see if such a thing were to ever happen. Like - Sharjo mentioned RPG, Berserknurple says RTS, HeroGilgamesh (good name) says Skyrim-like, and OP FrontlineFury says Diablo-like. Tyrsfal wants something with PVP and territory control (unsure of the genre or camera type), and Tesla Effect just wants it to be lore focused. Shall we dig a bit deeper? Beyond just a genre, how game-y are you thinking? Singleplayer? Multiplayer? (The ever elusive co-op?) Game with an end, or not? You play as a champion, or you make your own character? I swear I'm not asking you all to design it for me (promise I could design a dozen games before breakfast - any designer can) what I'm interested in is what this very particular microcosm of players wants. So tell me. No harm in it, right?
Hey @Bioluminescence , I know I mentioned RTS, which I WOULD love, but I also realize they are pretty unpopular right now. They also aren't always the best method of telling stories, which is something I would REALLY like out of Runeterra. People have mentioned MMO, but like you said in another comment, it's basically a ton of work for something unlikely to be successful while WoW exists. Plus MMO's themselves aren't as popular as they used to be, so may not be the best investment for Riot. Perhaps an adventure style-RPG? Something like Horizon Zero Dawn, or Breath of the Wild (Perhaps with fewer survival elements) I think you guys could be very successful going one of two routes: Either character customization Skyrim-ish style, or named protagonist. The latter allows you to have a more fleshed out story, but I do like how custom character games produce a sense of unimportance in the world.. You can experience everything as a more-or-less average citizen. I definitely think that making any Champion a playable character would be a mistake, they should be reserved to produce a sense of awe and wonder in comparison to the player character. I think being a soldier wouldn't necessarily be the best route either, as it's a bit limiting. Former soldier maybe? Something that allows wandering and exploring, for certain. In my opinion, Riot's narrative, art, and music departments are kickass. I think they consistently produce things of amazing quality, and a slower, more story focused game would be ideal for playing to those strengths. League is a hyper-competitive, fast-paced game where its lore has essentially no bearing on gameplay. Having your next game be the antithesis of that would be pretty cool for some folks who aren't as in to that sort of thing, or even to play in between rounds of League to relax for those that are. Lately I've been playing Horizon Zero Dawn in between playing league, and they both are very refreshing to play when you get a bit burned out on the other. League at its core is a multiplayer-only game, so I think allowing co-op, or some way of playing with a couple friends in the rich world of Runeterra would be great. Not necessary, but would be great if it fit.
: Kench is a lier. I highly doubt he does any of what he says he will do and just straight up eats people when they let their guard down.
Rioters have already confirmed that Tahm isn't a liar... He's a trickster. He always does what he says he's going to do, there's just always a catch. And the physical act of eating is not what sustains him, it's the misery produced by tricking people into their worst tendencies, and watching them destroy their own life before he takes over.
: I dont know about you man, but i wouldnt trust what he says... at least not 100% Lets take the quote about Gnar for example, sure, it sound like he can travel in time... But, Can he? What if the place where Gnar belongs is his stomach? We know that he doesnt like Yordles, so i higly doubt that he would help Gnar at all, even if he takes advantage of that aferwards. Tahm lies, cheats and deceives people to get what he wants.
Rioters have already confirmed that Tahm isn't a liar. He abides the terms of his bargains. From his quotes with Ekko, for example, he again implies that time is not a boundary for him. But there's always a catch. Tahm is (probably) the most powerful Demon we've seen so far, but he also requires the most in order to operate. Evelynn only needs a willing touch, and accordingly, her power isn't very great. Tahm requires full knowledge, consent, and willing verbal agreement. But in exchange he can do so much more... and feed so much more. Evelynn is basically barely able to feed herself while hunting people basically 24/7, but Tahm subsists on deals that are few and far between, and can take decades (perhaps centuries) to come to fruition. He gets a much higher quality of misery than she can.
: Tahm Kench is a demon of misery. He feeds on the emotional anguish of humans, and while he can't work directly with his prey, he can manipulate them into place. The thing with demons is that they are not all powerful. In order to work with humans, they must first establish a contract. Evelynn's contract is simply willing physical touch, so she has made an appearance for herself that will make people want to… well, touch her. Kench is a little more complex. He requires a spoken deal, a bargain. A gambler was down on his luck. He owed a few powerful people a lot of money, and his gambling addiction was going to gat him killed. So he finally decided to "change his path and walk away." But that's when Tahm saw an opportunity. He appeared to the gambler and basically said "I'll carry you from this place so your life won't be in danger." So the contract was "I will take you to another place, and at some point in the future, you have to 'let me in.' " The gambler agreed, and Tahm took him to a place where two things would happen: the gambler would be able to gamble more, and he would also find love. Eventually, Tahm showed up and started making good on the gambler's bargain. He eventually took the man's bride as well. Now, someone once asked me, how could Tahm kill the bride if he hadn't made a contract with her? Here's the answer: The bride was a part of the Gambler's (for clarity, I'm going to call him "The Man") deal. The Man's contract was basically "Take me away from this place, and in return I'll give you what you want in the future." The tricky thing is, that video was largely metaphorical. The Man wanted to be taken away from "this place" where he was about to "change his path (give up gambling)." Tahm's deal was that he takes The Man away, but what Tahm really got was the chance to take him to a different place, one that would enable his gambling addiction. So after The Man got married, Tahm arrived and "ate the gifts, and house, and gold," but that wasn't literally Tahm, it was The Man's gambling addiction forcing him to sell off his stuff to pay his debts. Tahm enabled The Man's addiction knowing that he would lose everything to it, even eventually his wife. Maybe his wife was killed by the people he couldn't pay back, and maybe his wife left him. Either way, Tahm succeeded in causing the most amount of misery possible in a single man, and that was a fine meal.
This is the right answer. Also interesting, we know Tahm Kench got his name from the Gambler. And while the Gambler's addiction destroyed his life, I think the Demon himself ate the Gambler's wife after possessing his body. The last lines of dialogue "Not now, not this time." "Please, forgive.." The Gambler choosing his addiction over his wife is what allowed Tahm full control. Snapping up his wife's bones, at that moment, with his own body, was the best way for the Demon to produce the misery he feeds on. This explains, for example, Tahm's too-small hat, his two coats stitched together to fit his massive frame.
: After reading the new story about Noxus... Am i the only one that'd want a separate game about it?
It actually really makes me want an RTS set in Runeterra. Pitting the various nation-states against each other, with access to heroic units (champions) you can level and whatnot. God I miss RTS's
: To be honest the inconsistency was made by you guys. You guys are trying to fix a problem that you made for yourselves now a little over 3 years ago. 3 years. That's insane. All because it was apparently too hard to write within the world you guys were hired to. And now we've got no overarching world, no connecting fabric between the characters. Just an empty world with people and nothing really happening between them. No story connecting the characters, just descriptions of the places and people. We used to know a lot of the answers to these "Deep" questions (Who, what, why), and that was back when there were barely any lore updates. And people were interested in knowing the answers to the questions we didn't know. Don't you think it's insane that the Star Guardian, Battlecast, and Project skin lines have better more consistent, overarching, and universe building lore than the base game's story? And it's sad to see, the stuff you guys could have done with the league. There are some great bits that are coming out from a writing perspective, a bit of it may read like a 2-star story on fanfiction.net, but honestly a lot of the writing is solid. I just wish you guys wouldn't have been too lazy to do that writing within the league of legends world. Sorry if it sounds mean, but it's just so frustrating.
The old league lore was super limiting. Also it was just poorly written. But if they hadn’t abandoned it, we never could have had champions like Aurelion Sol, or Kindred, or Rek’Sai or so many others. The League itself limited who could be in the game to beings that a.) could be controlled by Summoner’s and b.) have a reason to be there/get out of being there. Now a champion can be anything in Runeterra.
Limrick (NA)
: You do know the lore team is separate to the gameplay team, right?
“Hey! You stupid assholes on the lore team! Why aren’t support items fixed?” “Uhhh sir I have no idea how to code my job is to write stori-“ “WELL GET IN THERE AND START CODING”
Sharjo (EUW)
: > I question {{champion:142}} actually being as powerful as {{champion:136}} . I think they are talking about her space-time abilities more than her destructive capability. Even her ability to warp reality may have certain limitations we have yet to learn about, i.e. a size limit to her portals? a limit on the amount of time she can rewind? Power isn't measured solely in destructive power though. Kindred and Bard are of Aurelion Sol's power, but neither's about to 1v1 him in a test of strength; their power is meant for different purposes.
Uhhhh I’m fairly certain that Death itself is far above Aurelion Sol. No one on the roster currently is close to on par with Kindred. Everything dies or will be destroyed eventually. Even undead will be destroyed by some thing or another. Sol is just a particularly powerful long lived dragon.
: > [{quoted}](name=Berserknurple,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=GzZ5pNhh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-01-29T12:40:46.025+0000) > > Keep in mind that gameplay for champions isn’t canon. Garen doesn’t actually have the ability to call down a gigantic sword from the heavens in lore. Talon going invisible in game is just a way to represent that he is a particularly sneaky assassin. Same with Vayne, as she sure as hell wouldn’t be using any magic in lore. But Swain mentions how even Garen doesn't know about the magic the Garen carries into battle. So maybe he can summon a giant sword, he did it in a cinematic iirc.
I get all the jokes about Garen being an idiot, but if you think a magic-hating society wouldn't immediately recognize a gigantic sword made of light falling from the sky as magic... Swain's line most likely refers to something locked/buried in Demacia or the petricite they use they are unaware of.
GreenLore (EUW)
: Actually it is entirely possible that Garens ultimate is canon. Remember that he doesn't drop a sword anymore,but actually creates a sword made of light to smite the enemy. And it is easily possible that Garen has innate magical light-abilities similar to Lux,but he just doesn't realize it because he is wearing magic dampening armor all the time,so it doesn't manifest as much. Swain even calls him out on using magic himself.
Is that what Swain calling Garen out for? Or is it something else.. in Demacia. Remember that Swain is pretty amped to get something in Demacia only he knows about.
: So With the Current Lores and Reworked Champions...
Keep in mind that gameplay for champions isn’t canon. Garen doesn’t actually have the ability to call down a gigantic sword from the heavens in lore. Talon going invisible in game is just a way to represent that he is a particularly sneaky assassin. Same with Vayne, as she sure as hell wouldn’t be using any magic in lore.
Lordk0z (NA)
: How would Sion's lore work now? (Stupid theory)
Honestly... Sion's lore is completely fine as is and still works. Darius' predecessor, died killing Jarvan I. Revived by Boram, as he was his dear friend and quite literally a giant among his peers. It goes wrong as Sion is left completely mindless and uncontrollable. Enter Swain gaining power. He learns of the crazed human battering ram trapped inside Sion's monument. Utilizes his contacts in the Black Rose (who he is frenemies with per VO) to give some semblance of sanity to him. Sion was one of the greatest warriors of Noxus' history, and as a blood magic reanimated zombie, he's even stronger and more unkillable than he was in life. And in life he was ten feet tall and the greatest warrior of a nation of warriors. Sion is a tool that Swain would obviously utilize, and Darius is a very different sort of tool. Darius could not hope to stand up to Sion in single combat as the undead juggernaut, and Sion in life was probably a greater warrior as well. But Darius is a leader of men, and Swain needs those as well.
Quepha (NA)
: "This is one of the first champion updates I’ve worked on where I don’t think the original character was actually the biggest touchstone for us." That is a phenomenally massive mistake. You were supposed to rework an existing champion, not make a new one to fill a slot. When Riot mentioned the Swain rework, a number of things were instantly mentioned by players as important parts they wanted to preserve. Every one of those elements were either reduced or outright removed when they should have been enhanced and built around.
People don't seem to understand that Riot isn't creating self-contained little champion bubbles. They're creating a world, and Swain needs to make sense in that world. But you're also ignoring that instead of using the character, they said they used players' IMAGINATION of the character as their touchstone. Which is what they should have done with Varus. Old Swain didn't have a lot going for him in lore, in design, in pretty much every category. But the "idea" of Swain that players created from the few tidbits that did exist was much more fleshed out.
ampheon (NA)
: What sin was Beatrice based off?
Riot has already mentioned that Runeterra's demons aren't going to match up exactly with the seven deadly sins. Tahm is gluttony but also addiction and self-destruction. Eve uses lust to her ends, but her true desire is to inflict physical, painful agony. Something important to note is that Tahm is the only one who's been shown to make deals so far. Eve is basically a predator, although it is unclear whether she needs her victim's initial consent or not. Beatrice, or whatever Swain's demon is named, seems to me one primarily interested in knowledge and secrets based on his VO. The question is how does a demon feed off of that? So far Runeterran demons need mortal anguish of some variety in order to feed (and even exist) Perhaps a demon that unveils mortals' secrets to cause them suffering? Maybe one feeding on deceit? The other option is that the Raven demon is primarily a battlefield demon, feeding off of that anguish. This option would explain why Swain would make a deal (if that's what happened) since Swain plans on waging war anyway, and needs power to do so.
Barcid (NA)
: Can Swain just wear his bloody coat?
He literally doesn't have a corporeal arm on one side. Keep in mind this is Swain while he's fighting, when he's commanding he likely has his coat on normally, although with one sleeve still loose (no arm)
Sherogarth (EUNE)
: "You think you do but you don't." Trust me, having your main removed from the game sucks. At first you dont realize this, blinded by all the hype and great visuals. But then, one day, when your excitation for this new/reworked champion fades away it will hit you like a truck - there is no going back. You will never be able to play your favourite pile of pixels again. The champion you loved is gone. I went through all this and it is the main reason my interest in League is almost gone now.
Alternatively, like me, you get fantastic reworks like Sion's/Yorick's and find your main in not only a better gameplay state, but a more interesting and fulfilling lore position as well. People like to view the past in rose tinted glasses, but the vast, vast majority of VGUs have been great.
: Fact: - The Riot Lore team does not actually provide answers to anything and never really will. Any question asked in an AMA that could have a conclusive answer or resolve a plotline is always left unanswered. The only answers given are restatements or clarifications to already resolved plotlines. Theory: - This is because they have learned from shows like LOST that it's way easier to provide a bunch of questions and dangling plotlines than to provide answers. People are usually disappointed by answers and resolutions, but will remain interested in questions that keep piling up, so long as they are continuously diverted to the next question. Myth: - That the above constitutes good storytelling. In reality, it's a low-risk/low-reward strategy preferred by people who cannot tell compelling stories and are more afraid of failure than pursuing success. - That any champion has an actual reason to be fighting in the League of Legends. There's actually zero clarification on what, if anything, fighting in the League brings anyone, and there are no examples of the League ever actually rewarding or advancing a champion's goals.
You’re very clearly waaaaaaaay out of date on the lore. The League itself hasn’t been a thing in the lore for years now. Also you don’t really expect Riot to resolve plot lines or reveal crucial lore moments in an AMA, do you?! That’s what stories are for... which they have been writing since the big lore retcon. Some plot lines have advanced (Burning Tides, jinx comic) but mostly right now they are making sure every champion is up to date with the world they’ve created. It would be really dumb of them to start closing character loops when many of their characters are unfinished in the lore department.
Niyume (NA)
: Hey, speak of the devil, there's someone who enjoys milking the system (or was brainwashed by the people who do abuse it). So, a few years ago, a Mormon man wanted to prove that American Indians were all ancient Jews that came over to America (since that's one of the things Mormons believe in). So he wanted to do a mass DNA sampling of "pure" (as in, they never had kids outside of the tribes) American Indian peoples. The tribal leaders objected, but a lot of people went through with it anyway. The man was disappointed, because the American Indians aren't actually Jewish, but they unanimously have European blood in them, which is kind of odd, since they're "native" and all, and had no contact with Europeans before the Americans arrived supposedly -- and these were "pure" Indians, who never had kids outside of the tribe. So if they never had kids outside of the tribe... maybe that European blood came from before, yeah? Central Asia isn't too far off from Europe, and there was a lot of trading between the two areas. So it's not hard to imagine someone having a kid along the way. People of Mongol descent, with European blood in them from a long, long time ago... Hm. Kind of sounds like they came over from Asia, huh? Oh but that can't be. Psh. Silly me.
Hmm, so strange that that runs counter to every single genetic study that has ever been published. Why don't you post your source, so we can see which mitochondrial markers prove this European DNA? Do you know the names of the study or the specific markers? Oh what's that? You don't? You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how human populations migrated out of Africa and into the rest of the world. I'd encourage you to educate yourself on the subject (don't take my word for it, look up all the peer-reviewed genetic studies and archaeological evidence that's out there)
Niyume (NA)
: "Native Americans" are not native in any way. In fact, no one is native to America. American Indians are largely of Mongol / Central-Asian descent, and crossed over into America on an ice bridge between Russia and Alaska around 2,000 years ago (judging by the oldest remains / buildings we have). However, there are Nordic settlements on the east coast of America that predate the American Indians by 800-1500 years. There are also remains with ***red hair*** in the south that predate the Nordic settlements by another thousand years (American Indians do not have red hair). Recently we uncovered Kennewick Man in the Columbia River (and hey, my uncle happens to live right there, so I saw the digsite), who was Caucasian (presumably European) and also predates American Indians by a few hundred years. So please, don't bring the whole "native" crap. If anyone is "native" it's Nordic peoples or early Europeans, since they were in America long before the American Indians were.
That's just plain not true. Contemporary evidence has placed American Indians on the continent tens of thousands of years before Leif Eriksson, who arrived around 1000 AD. There is no evidence of any prior Nordic settlement, only proven hoaxes like the Minnesota runestone. There have been no findings of any naturally red hair in the Americas prior to European contact. If you're referring to South America, dying hair red was fairly common in some cultures but is clearly different from genetically red hair. I have no idea where you got your numbers, but they are all very, very wrong. The Ice bridge theory is largely discounted now as being the first migration, but it was 20,000 years ago(ish) not 2,000. Recent evidence actually places first migration into the Americas even earlier than that. Also, I'm sure you're aware that human migration happened all from the same place (out of Africa) so calling Native Americans Central Asian is the same as calling Nordic people Arabs just because their ancestors migrated through the middle east (and lived there for a time) to get to the Scandinavian peninsula. They are genetically distinct from Central and East Asians, as mitochondrial DNA shows. Now don't get me wrong, they are closely related, just as Nordic people are closely related to Southern Europe and Anatolia. Calling people "native" to an area is a bit misleading, as the only place that can truly be said of is the Horn of Africa where we likely evolved. Otherwise it is simply the result of many different migrations. Fun fact, Norwegians aren't native to Norway! Sami were there before them, and there were likely a few genetically distinct populations before them. But, for all intents and purposes of modern history, Norwegians are native to Norway. Native American cultures are the only ones that arose in the Western Hemisphere, and they absolutely deserve to be called native to the area.
: well thats just dumb lol, the two are not related at all
While not wrong, many "native Americans" actually prefer to be called Indians, its not really an ignorance thing anymore (although it certainly was when Columbus decided on it)
Zyranium (EUW)
: Maybe instead of focusing on a specific tribe, why not some legendary creatures that every tribes shares in their mythology ? There is so many tribes and cultures in America I was thinking about the Wendingo ; maybe it could become a forest protector, a vengeful spirit who kills those who dares steps in its territory ? It would be very close to Ivern but very different too. Horns, fur, claws etc The Chupacabra would be great too, some indigenous south american myths would be perfect, since we have no faction in Runeterra that represents Mayan/Incan (Indigenous American) civilizations. I think it could be nice to introduce a new faction that shares the same aesthetics as the pre-Colombian civilizations ! **Ionia** - East Asia/Southern Asia ( See Karma, I assume there is more than just one culture and people in there) **Shurima** - Ancient Egypt and Middle-East **Noxus** - Medieval Europe **Demacia** - Medieval Europe **Bilgewater** - Colonial Australia/Caribbean vibes (See Illaoi and TF who are indigenous people from the Serpent Isles) **Shadow Isles **- Eastern Europe (?) **Freljord **- Scandinavia/Northern Europe **Piltover** - Steampunk (Great Britain) **Zaun** - Steampunk vibes **Targon ** - Greek/Caucasus Kumungu jungles is yet, badly an unexploited region, that needs to be fleshed out, It's still canon, but imagine how many cool champs that could come from an antique and dangerous jungle ? Yes we need more diversity in cultures and factions !
Yeah, I think a new region would be the best way to do this properly. Or shipwrecked survivors from an unknown continent far across the sea?
: > [{quoted}](name=AbiwonKenabi,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=waFe0qEc,comment-id=00050001000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-16T05:28:25.660+0000) > > Quetzalcoatl is NOT South America: it's Mesoamerican cultures, which is still technically in what we consider North America (the term "mesoamerica" more refers to the culture rather than geographic region) and include civilizations like the Aztecs, the Maya, the Olmec, and others. It does NOT include the Inca, who were from South America proper. > > I know what you mean when you say "cliché Indians" but that was sort of my point, the stereotype never really existed and probably pulls from several different tribes. The classic stereotypical Native American "look" is probably the Sioux, but then there are elements like horse-riding that are more common to Great Plains tribes like the Cheyenne. And there are also Native Americans that don't fall into the stereotype at all. There are a lot of cool Native American cultures beyond just the stereotype is all I'm trying to say. So Horus isn't NOT Egyptian, he's African.
That's not at all the same. The Aztec/Maya are literally not from South America. They are North American. The Inca were genuinely South American. Calling Quetzalcoatl a South American god is literally the same as calling Zeus an African god. In fact, Greece is geographically much closer to Africa than the Aztec were to South America. They are from completely different continents. The Incan pantheon is totally unrelated to the Aztec/Maya pantheon. Their main god is Inti, the sun god, but there were many others like Viracocha, Mamaquilla and Pachamama. The "Indian" stereotype that is often thought of with tomahawks and feather headdresses and bonepipe armor and totem poles never existed. It takes parts from the Great Plains tribes, the Algonquian tribes of the east coast, and totem poles from 3000 miles away in the Pacific Northwest. As far as a Native American inspired champion in LoL, I hope they wouldn't make a vastayan. Vastayans (and Ionia in general) are mainly inspired by East Asian cultures, and it would feel cheap to shoehorn any American cultures in. Illaoi was perfect, as she didn't directly copy any particulars, but took inspiration from Mayan, Caribbean, and Polynesian cultures with her visuals, and even the language they created for Buhru. Either more champions from Buhru would be cool, or shipwrecked survivors from an unknown continent could be really cool as well.
: Exactly not to mention it's ok if someone is gay but watching gay couples touch each other like they did in the music video is discusting
uhhhhhhhhh hate to tell you this but if you can't handle two guys looking into each other's eyes and touching each other's face, without even kissing, you might not be okay with gay people
: Who do you think is the most evil character in the lore
{{champion:223}} For sure. He's a demon who literally lives on suffering. But worse than that, Tahm's victims destroy _themselves_. Not like Evelynn, where she hunts you down. Tahm makes you hate and destroy yourself through temptation and addiction. He takes people about to turn their lives around, and ruins any chance of redemption. The closest thing to biblical Satan in Runeterra. Also note that he possessed and is currently utilizing the Gambler's body. How aware is the Gambler? I'm sure he was around to experience his first transformation into Tahm, when he snapped up his own wife and crushed her bones. Or the slower, more insidious evil of destroying everything he cared about in his own life, over the course of years. Evelynn (and many of the other "evil" champs) do things _to_ you, which, sure, is evil. The Darkin forcibly possess you, so you can still blame them for the evil that has befallen you, or that they use your body to accomplish. But Tahm's form of evil is faaaaaaar worse in my opinion. He's the darkness inside you in a way that no other champion is. "_Cry if you want to boy, but you had your chance to walk away. Now you're just the fool... The fool who let me in._" {{champion:223}}
: Reksai Question
Where did you see that they use any Xer'Sai in their arenas? I don't think that has ever been mentioned.
: What does each Darkin represent?
From how the lore is going the Darkin aren’t really embodiments, that what the Demons are. Tahm and Evelynn represent specific foibles of mankind. The Darkin may vaguely resemble the horsemen (we do more or less have War, Death, and Pestilence so far) but we don’t really know how intentional that is
: I like this theory. Now we just have to figure out what kind of weapon would fit for Lilaath as a champion. Maybe a dagger? Daggers were used in many rituals, especially if they are related to blood. And a small and elegant weapon would fit her theme pretty well. Would be great to see a Darkin weapon which isn't as big and impactful as her brothers (scythe, greatsword, longbow).
A dagger like the one stuck in Sion’s head, who conveniently is also powered by blood magic :)
Rebonack (NA)
: One thing I want to point out regarding Eve: Turning her into a demon means she's never going to get any character development. Previously she was an expensive assassin. Sure, that's pretty generic, but given all the 'mysterious' she was still a person and her story could go most anywhere. The new Eve isn't a person. She's a challenge for the protagonist(s) to overcome. She's driven purely by her hunger to feed on suffering so she can feel. She's an instinctual creature, like Pennywise the Dancing Clown. There's no true malice there, she just needs to do morally reprehensible things to feed. Is that better? Well, it means she might make a decent antagonist for Vayne to overcome. But it means Eve lacks any real agency of her own.
As far as Eve I agree with most of what you said, I think there is a story thread available in that her feeding habits aren’t able to satiate her anymore, and she’s going to need a change. What that change means as far as insight into the nature of demons could be quite a story on its own. I think it’s much more likely she will function most entirely as an antagonist, though.
Melehan (NA)
: On Visual and Gameplay Updates, concerning the Lore
THANK YOU. This is what fair criticism looks like. Varus absolutely underwent a massive identity change, and while Riot believes his core elements are still there, not everyone thought Varus was those core elements. That’s a completely understandable position.
: This is a stupid argument. Lets assume that there is indeed a discrepancy in the actual feeling because it's true that ppl are more into complaining than praising (except when the praise is really well deserved). Among the Boards we have most likely only threads about how Varus lore was bad handled, the only thing every1 agrees is that the video was perfectly done (I have to say that I still can't get pass the "wrong" hand but that's me). Lets put in positive feedback in replies and so it roughly makes an 80% of complain vs 20% praise. Do you think that the rest of the playerbase doesn't fall in a similar interval? DO yous eriously think that every1 not expressing their opinions here is against what the majority of the players here think?
What I'm saying is that the only real negative feedback for the new lore has been on this board, and even here polls indicated that 40ish% still liked the new lore better. Everywhere else (including the Varus Main subreddit, who should care the most about their champ) have pretty much overwhelmingly liked the new lore. If the new lore is objectively bad then why do the numbers say the majority of players like it?
: Which events go where chronologically: The Rise and Fall of Shurima, Rune War, and the Darkin War?
Fall of Shurima is definitely oldest, but isn't the rune wars what drew the Darkin to Runeterra?
: > [{quoted}](name=Berserknurple,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-12-04T23:25:33.991+0000) > > The boards are a teeny tiny subsection of players in general, and the lore interested one is even smaller than that. The reaction to the lore has been great literally everywhere but here, and even here, on every single poll at least 40% of the votes said they like the new lore better. > > People here just don’t want to get into arguments in the 400 threads people have made. They only like it because sparkling comics and a music video. Plus the oh so progressive filler of boy boy. Take away the comics and video and the ADD riddled players wouldn't care or like it.
“They only like it for stupid reasons but I hate it for good reasons and my opinion means more” K I think you may find that you aren’t the arbiter of why people feel the way they do about things
: @Riot DyQuill Answers On Varus? What are your plans?
The boards are a teeny tiny subsection of players in general, and the lore interested one is even smaller than that. The reaction to the lore has been great literally everywhere but here, and even here, on every single poll at least 40% of the votes said they like the new lore better. People here just don’t want to get into arguments in the 400 threads people have made.
Abibyama (EUW)
: Doesn’t matter, people will bitch regardless
GreenLore (EUW)
: In general I think the idea of Varus being composed of 2 persons(with one person trying to rescue the other) came first and in this case it actually makes sense for the 2 to be either brothers or a gay couple,otherwise it'd be odd for the body of Varus to be that of an adult male.
This. Everyone who thinks the gay was forced in, it makes sense in context. If their goal was to make a 3-way struggle, it has to be two men for Varus’ body to make sense.
: Old Lore vs New Lore (Effort & Time)
shhh don't try to reason with them
Ache (NA)
: I like the Varus update.
: Stop crying about the varus lore can you children grow up?
Seriously, Riot has more players it has to cater to than the (generously) 100 on these boards that dislike the new lore. Feedback has shown that most players like it. Sorry to tell you guys that the lore department isn’t your personal ghostwriter
: Defending The New Varus
Most people are beyond reason my man, but good luck
resumed (NA)
: its a copypasta from the blizzard forums when tracer was revealed to be a lesbian. the people reacting to varus being gay are the same kinds of people
It’s actually older than that, I think it was originally due to 2016 election results, but shitposts have dark and mysterious histories
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