: No no no, you are vastly misinterpreting corporate and editorial jargon. Ok, this post will probably sound condescending pessimistic and dickish, probably because I am a condescending pessimistic dick. But it's purpose is more to demonstrate how things work. Riot is a company. Riot's only true goal, behind every decision they make, is to make money for the company. This isn't some empty complaint. This is the way it has to be. If Riot isn't making money for themselves, then they are failing as a business. Everything else takes a back seat to that. And just about every decision they make comes back to that paradigm. Why are there so many Star Guardian skins? Because they sell. Why were Runes Reforged? Because the old model was a barrier to entry for new players, and removing it would also create a fancy new toy to get players excited about. It's a win-win. Why is lore getting some focus? Because it has been proved, repeatedly, that players respond to characters and stories. That's why the Overwatch fanbase goes berserk over every comic and video. Is Overwatch really that much better than Team Fortress 2? Meh, maybe. But what it does have is a bunch of unique characters front and center with a cohesive story driving a mysterious and potentially fun narrative. TF2 has good jokes. So, when a story is being rewritten there is a purpose behind that rewrite. The purposes are usually one or more of the following: -Reshape the character to more closely fit the LoL brand. Galio, Pantheon, etc. were like this. Is a gargoyle really unique and memorably LoL-ish? Not really. Is a Spartan? Definitely not. Is a giant anti-magic statue with golden wings? Definitely. Is a space parasite? Sure. Now I think both these lores suck, but they are definitely more LoL. -Rewrite the character to match the direction of the new LoL lore master plan. Does the fake smiling emotionally traumatized child soldier Lux really have that much less inner turmoil and meaning when compared to the new hiding her magic Lux? No, not really. But the choice to make Demacia anti-magic required Lux to be changed to match. -Create hype, especially among potential new players for a champion. Urgot, Yorick, and Varus will go here. Since this post will probably mostly be about Varus, I'll focus on Urgot for this. Urgot was a corpse forced to continue to serve Noxus a shambling wreck of his former self who just wanted to die. In broad strokes that's a fine character, great even. It is, however, not a character that really garners a huge fanbase willing to spend money to get him. He's depressing. So when he got reworked he became BAD ASS. A strange, yet fearsome mix of Bane and Jigsaw (from the Saw franchise). Of course, a lot of people who wanted a dark power fantasy responded to that. Does Riot really care about the fans of Urgot who really liked the old character? All 5 of them. No. Because the new Urgot is more profitable and they already have the money of anyone who wanted old Urgot. And those numbers were not high. Now they could bolster those numbers by making some damn awesome skins for old Urgot. But, that's risky. He has a small player base, there's no guarantee that people will buy the champion or buy the new awesome skin. Especially when it's more profitable to give an already popular champion a skin from an already popular skin line. Now, let's talk about Varus. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on who you ask) the question of Varus has been irrevocably tied to Riot's stance on homosexuality. Let me be clear, Riot has over 130 champions. It is 2017. And only now does Riot get to plant a little flag and say "look we're open and accepting of people too! We get it. We're with you." It is 2017. That probably should have happened 5 years ago. But, because our society is a strange and somewhat reprehensible one. That's still important news. So much so, that members of Riot literally had an interview on Rolling Stone basically to give themselves a pat on the back that they are now oh so progressive. Again, whatever the writer's original intentions. You have to look at this from the perspective of a business. Is there a reason why Riot had a whole video and interview to celebrate a piece of lore change? Not even one tied to a new skin, new champion, or new VGU? That stuff is expensive. And time-consuming. And look at the production quality, that video is gorgeous. That took a lot of time and a lot of effort. And importantly, a lot of money. You don't spend money unless you expect to make that money back. This was done to get liberal-minded people excited. People usually have a strong powerful emotional response to characters that remind them of themselves (as a side note, this is why a lot of main characters in stories are kind of bland. It's to make it easier for the audience to realize themselves as that character). Anyway, people have been calling for homosexual characters for years now, and you bet your wallet that there will be someone who was wowed by the beauty of the video, felt a connection to the struggle of the lovers and either bought the champion or downloaded the game. A win for Riot. But now that flag is planted. Varus is the token homosexual character for Riot. They get to show how progressive they are, and how amazing their game is. Only, it didn't really work out as intended. Now, I'm sure that they expected some backlash, there's always some backlash when they change a piece of lore. But this one was BIG. Now, Riot has to make a choice. They can cater to the backlash or stand their ground. Only if you were paying attention at all to what I just wrote, you'd realize that there is no choice there. The amount of negative press they'd get that they un-gayed their first gay champion would be enormous! Even contemplating that is laughable. Especially after all the money they just spent in order to make sure everyone knew about their first gay champion. So, now they have to go into Damage Control Mode. And they have a playbook for Damage Control Mode. They will say how the old lore was incompatible with the new direction of things. They'll apologize to those who liked the old lore, even seem heartfelt. But in the same post, they'll subtly (and not so subtly) imply that the old lore just wasn't very good. And if it can at all fit, they'll say how there was nowhere for the old character to go. They said the same for Trundle, they said the same for Galio, they said the same for Urgot, and now they've said the same for Varus. And it has been a heaping pile of bull every single time they've said it. But people parrot it. You'll get people who defend the change, attempting not to get tangled in the LGBT debate just saying how the old lore had no room to grow. But, we both know that's not true. Honestly, anyone with half a mind for story arcs can tell you how that's not true. These characters are pulp heroes more than they are literary examinations. There is almost always more room to put stories for a pulp hero. This goes back to the old pre-pulp heroes. Does Herakles have a definitive arc? Yes, being turned mad by Hera and murdering his family he faces labors to find redemption. Is that the end of his story? Hell no. Does he still develop through these later stories? Hell yes. And when there's no more room to explore (which Varus had a long way left to go for that) you can still plant them as a wandering hero archetype that shows up to be awesome with a vaguely dangling plot thread of what adventures they're going on. Now, it's easy to say that Old Varus' development wasn't dead. But, to demonstrate it, I'm just going to spitball a few ideas to prove that he could still develop. Scenario 1: The bow finally awakens, maybe it's a Darkin maybe it isn't. They vie for control, but ultimately the sense of loss that Varus suffers leads to the bow having a change of heart, and they begin to develop together as opposed to warring for control. Scenario 2: Varus in his murderous rage finds a character like Riven, or, just Riven. A Noxian who agrees that the destruction of Ionia was pointless and is shamed for it. He starts to waver in his conviction for destroying all Noxians. Scenario 3: Varus finds out that one member of his family wasn't killed, but actually taken alive as a slave. He searches to find him/her. Only to find when they meet, that the family member has gone full Noxian, like Darius. Scenario 4: Varus finds out that the increased brutality of the Noxians invasion of Ionia was caused by Ancient Evil Number 47 in this setting, because, of course, it was. His vendetta becomes focused on stopping this new ancient threat. Scenario 5: Varus plans to cut off the Noxian war machine at its head, destroying the entire Noxian high command. However, in the destruction he causes across Noxus he starts to see reflections of his family in the lives he takes to meet his goal. Each of those could have a plausible and even powerful emotional arc and character growth for Old Varus, which makes the statement that there was nowhere for Varus to grow ring hollow. So why do they say it? Is it because they think we're stupid? Not really. More they're giving a beacon to rally around for their own side. They can't just straight up say "We changed Varus because we wanted to fit our diversity quota" or "we changed Urgot because we think this new version is more marketable" whether that's true or not. They have to spin it as if they tried to make the fans happy, but there just wasn't any way they could possibly do it. They're not the bad guys, Riot's not a heartless money-focused company. They're the good guys. They love you and these champions. The old lore just wouldn't work, and trust them, no one is sorrier about that than them. Truly. And that's not evil or even all that manipulative. That's just good business sense.
It's a shame that there aren't more people like you Warlord, atleast you're willing to look at this debacle logically. I don't agree with you most of the time, but atleast you're willing to see this outside the pathetic salt fest.
: Vastayan Language
Which kind vastayan? Their are mutiple trbes of them running around
: You can have a story were a character does something, develops, and then the story ends. Most good stories are like this.
But Varus lore wasn't a “good” story, it was a generic story told over a thousand times over dfferent medium over years.
MysterQ (NA)
: One, Evelynn passive sounds cool. A little too much like LB, but still cool. Two, I am glad the Varus threads have died down BUT BUT BUT I don't want the community to just forget about it. Because then Riot win sin just ignoring away problems again. We need a fair balance of complaints to keep Riot accountable. Even if it is their game, they won't go back on the decision, it would be nice to see them discuss their thoughts instead of only talking about the good stuff.
No the community is going to forget this whole shit fest in a few month. Cry all you want but your complaint will fall on deaf year with little care. Unfortunately for you, everyone outside the boards think varus was a success. Also they did talk about their decission to ret con varus lore, unfortunately it was drown in this place pathetic salt. I wouldn't be suprise if the narrative team would stop comming here all together.
Rioter Comments
: I doubt they would swap them. It did happen with Sejuani, Karma, and Trundle, but I think those are the only ones? Anyway, I'm personally more hyped for Dragon Master Swain (perhaps renamed to something else like Dragon Sorcerer). I want to make sure Rito doesn't forget about that promise. It's been years, but I still want that skin.
Unless their planning to give him an re release skin for his vgu, I don't see dragon master swain greating us for atleast another year.
MysterQ (NA)
: I am so sad of hearing "Old Varus lore was undeveloped, Old Varus has no room to grow his story was closed." OF COURSE, that is why you update it lol.
It was an updated, just not the one you wanted
MysterQ (NA)
: Then get over yourself and don't reply to me.
LoL excuse me? You joined this discussion on your own and decided to act like some sort of authority when in comes to writing. You got put down and now you're crying because? Please if you hate new lore so much don't read it lol, I'm sure there are two bit fanfic writer to fill your need in reading the generic tropy ass garbage that is the old lore.
MysterQ (NA)
: Do Valmar and Kai have any purpose? Many people have described them as "generic" "bland" "character 1 and 2" some have called them exactly as you have "red shirt fodder" destined for death. I agree Riot can do what they want. But (sorry you like it) to me the new lore is just poorly written. It isn't a good love story. I know nothing about Valmar or Kai (hence many people actually being confused who is who). And in the end Varus is born, but Varus is not born of love; he is a killing machine.
Valmar and kai are far from simply “red shirts”, they serve a purpose to further develop varus. They still have story potential to tell and even more interaction to write. LoL and your opinion matters because? LoL most of you didn't even read the comic ans even if you did you probably just skimed through it. LoL to say valmar and kai are less developed than they fucking nameless wife and child is fucking laughable. I'm sorry most points are at best a well written shit. I quite frankly not intrested in the opiniom of some random no buddy telling me how they new lore is bland.
: > [{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AQKJhFaA,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-03T08:01:00.395+0000) > > Varus has as much nod to their old character as, Warwick had to old warwick. > Obviously people are not going to like it, but that is the nature of ret con and change. I fail to see how this was any different from warwick change honestly. Alright I can see ur and Dinopaw's (are they a Riot employee?) points. Explained like this I can see that the Varus's old lore has an issue that can be explained (tho some would argue so what if Varus's final decision invalidates his first: he was filled with powerful negative emotions and people usually do VERY rash things in these circumstances, is it such a bad thing that in this story a human is flawed this way?) And ur right people are not gonna like it maybe for reason that I stated above. But ok the final personal decision by the person in charge is made that instead of releasing the thing the Main Character(MC) is meant to protect from being released, instead MC will release the thing that others were in charge of protecting in an attempt to save a loved one. OK I can jell with that it makes more ethical sense i guess. "After all, if you're gonna release the thing you've been guarding...why let your family die first?" So instead the Darkin is released to save the loved one. The next question is then, why still get rid of the families relevance? They did exist before and were relevant to Varus's story, why not pull them deeper into the story. Heck why not have MC drag his WHOLE family into the pit to save them. Why replace the family with one man. And again it doesnt have the be a hetero family, if they REALLY felt the need to change MC's preference theres still no reason to get rid of the family. You can still have the family member be mortally wounded and have MC use the Darkin the save them the same way. I guess what I want now is a reason for why new changes were decided on now that I kno why they decided to change the old stuff. It makes since that they saw a need to make changes to old Varus, but the new changes still lack meaning, especially in that they dont reference the old Varus, in ways that they obviously could In the case of WW, didn't they also explain why the old one wasn't gud or relevant enough anymore, and didn't they also explain why the new one was better? And u tell me ur thoughts, do u think the old one was insufficient, do you think that the new WW is better or just changed?
Because varus family had no relevance at all. They existed to die to push varus story forward to corruption. I mean how many time do we have to watch some guy push to the dark side with the tragic loss of his family? It's an over done trope at this point why not try something new? His family is irrelavant detail that could be easily replaced with anyone. I don't understand how this change lack meaning? A lot of old lore character were straight up removed for the new lore. Old lore WW was this greedy hunter who wanted to hunt better, so he went to singed to get him to make a potion. Singed told him that he would need a celestial heart, so WW went to ionia and tried to steal soraka's heart. He fails of course and in his fustration drink the unfinish serum and turns into a wolf man thing. Compare to his new lore where he is this beastial avenger hunting in the pitbof zaun. The only thing they kept about warwick was singed amd even then the nature of their relationship is quite different in the new lore. My point is to point out that riot will always delete old character in favour of their narrative direction, not whether I like the new lore(which i do). New lore is not build out of the respect of the old lore, but out of their champion core concept, player perseption and riot own creativivty. Also the power of love is seldom explored outside kids shows. Love it self is an interesting concept that is filled with all kind of potential. There is nothing wrong about varus new lore other than it being different. But that is to be expected with the nature of a ret con.
: That's clearly riot's priority. The old fans don't matter in only consequence when compared to the vague possibility of attracting new fans. The worst part is that riot genuinely believe that's the result of their actions. They see tons of people talking about how they like the new lore and assume that's because they've "fixed" it, not because it's just something new that they've put out that has new eyes on it. If riot would just once put as much work into something that continued an existing popular story line and did it totally faithfully, would there be anyone taking umbrage at all with it? Wouldn't the positive reaction from something new and non destructive be just as big if not bigger?
they made they new varus lore un the direction they wish to take league universe. The narrative team is task to recreate runeterra not continue it. Obviously many fans wanted varus to be darkin and Riot has grander narrative plan for the darkin, varus was change to reflect the larger darkin narrative. They will not be continueing the old story lines. Events such as kalamanda and swain rise to boram assassinination will all be change in the coming lore update.
: > [{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AQKJhFaA,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-12-03T06:51:26.170+0000) > > I don't see it as a problem, I see this as the natural backlash of riot reworking the everyone. This was bound to happen eventually as the new lore continued to develop. > > Beside the “community” doesn't want an explanation. There is no explanation that will be satisfying to them, so why bother. Woulld the community actually like them to come out and say a respectful fuck you, we're doing our thing and that's final? > > Marvelous there is no “good” way to handle this issue at all. I simply want to remind everyone that if you don't like the new lore, your only option is to leave .I frankly don't hold onto anything of the old lore hence why I'm excited for what changes. all the past lore changes had nods to the past character or story, and they also explained reason for why the old one was bad and why the new one is better. This one has none of that u are right about them Having the final sayso ,cause they can do whatever they want with their stuff.
Varus has as much nod to their old character as, Warwick had to old warwick. He's motive and character was completely deleted in favor for wolf chimera thingy he become. Hell he retain zero of his original characteristic save for his look. I don't see how varus was any different from warwick. As for the change Dinopaw has explain the change: >Varus's lore wasn't bad at all, and it was better than a lot of older bios, but my personal take was that, yeah, he had a cool moment of choice where duty warred with desire, and he chose duty. But then he fails in a way that undermines that terrible sacrifice... He's done his duty to stand and guard the pit at awful cost...then releases the thing within it anyway... That seemed to invalidate and diminish his choice. After all, if you're gonna release the thing you've been guarding...why let your family die first? Obviously people are not going to like it, but that is the nature of ret con and change. I fail to see how this was any different from warwick change honestly.
: Is Swain confirmed not to be a drain tank anymore? I wonder what kind of playstyle he will have now.
No he's not a drain tank anymore, they moved him a more battle mage sort of deal. I know he still has a demon form and aparently his human form is daddy level. So take what you will from that.
: Sorry you feel that way. Rather than reiterate the problems, I tried to explain: * The Whole History of Varus * Where the displeasure started * Timeline how we got here. * Explain the impacts for the future (So Riot can hopefully avoid them) But yeah, was not meant to just copy-paste. Besides, it's more so about discussing Varus's history than repeating problems with the new lore.
I don't see it as a problem, I see this as the natural backlash of riot reworking the everyone. This was bound to happen eventually as the new lore continued to develop. Beside the “community” doesn't want an explanation. There is no explanation that will be satisfying to them, so why bother. Woulld the community actually like them to come out and say a respectful fuck you, we're doing our thing and that's final? Marvelous there is no “good” way to handle this issue at all. I simply want to remind everyone that if you don't like the new lore, your only option is to leave .I frankly don't hold onto anything of the old lore hence why I'm excited for what changes.
: Swain's deliberate absence from lore and the game in general has been the most painful thing. Like his character is meant to have this looming presence but he's never... anywhere. Not in promotional art, trailers, lore (except Sion's) or even skins. Like it's kind of bullshit that Riot has made Darius the de facto Noxian representative.
But darius is the repersentation of Noxus. Swain always been the mastermind behind scene while darius is the face of Noxus. Also Swain never really lived up to his position as the grand general of noxus.
: Why Varus's new lore was doomed to fail.
They did it with Trundle, they did it with poppy, they did with warwick. Riot has always been reinventing their previous character post ret con of the lore. Clearly people didn't get the memo the first time around. Let's be real here, if the lore team isn't restricted by company PR they would come out and say it that they are abandoning the old lore. It seems pretty obvious to me three years ago when Riot decided to remove the IOW. Quite frankly I see Varus lore a good ultimatum for people who cling onto the old lore. Any characterization you cling onto is probably subject to change. Quite frankly the the ret con was never in service for the old lore fans, it was for riot to attract new audiances to their ip. Old lore and it's fan are forfeit and abadon. Your faith and trust are not needed because you were always meant to relaced with new people who would love this new character just as much as the old. Your crying will no be heard and at best you'll get a I respectfully disagree from Riot. So heres are your choices: Stop following the lore because the old lore is never comming back, or stay and see how the new lore develop. Because being stubborn will do you now favours and will only drag this boards into the worse of league toxic cesspool.
: Ah, I see where we have a difference of opinion now. I'd argue that preserving aspects of a character that existed for five years should have been the lore team's top priority. I'm trying to find a solution that keeps aspects of Varus canon. If Varus were released with the current "updated lore" we have now I'd be inclined to agree with you. However, updating a character means updating them, not deleting them. Sorry that you disagree.
Riot has been “deleting” old character for quite sometime now. Galio Warwick Poppy etc. They are changing old characters to fit the new lore, that is what update means. The memo was given out three years ago and it's not riot fault people choosing to be blind. Quite frankly they either need to learn to accept the changes or move on to something else.The new lore was never in service of the old lore fans but for riot to maintain their ip.
: People? You mean me? I'm afraid you don't quite understand what I'm going for here. I think the new Darkin's motivation is weak. I think that as invaders to the "human realm" (for lack of a better term) the risks were clear that they could lose and as a race that, from what I've observed, were intent on wiping the humans out it would be a little strange that he'd have some kind of moral quandary with the wiping out of his race. But that's not why I made this post. I made this post because I'm trying to brainstorm a way to assuage some fan's anger directed at Riot for tossing a side a character they loved. This way a story that people loved is kept intact in some form and better fleshes out Varus and keeps his old thematics in tact. Do you read?
Weak? If the roles were reverse, I doubt anyone would bat a eye to human killing reckless darkin with wild magic. The only reason why human tends to win is bcause humam have plot armour in everystory told to man. As for the change. Nah Varus is fine as he is. They could maybe add in a darkin family but it's a pointless gesture. They people are going to be mad are going to be mad. I rather they ignore the cryinh here and look forward
: Riot I can fix your Varus problem.
Varus hates the human for extinction of his race and messing up their homeworld. Darkin aren't a bunch of brainless monsters. Do people even read?
LankPants (OCE)
: >Pointless in my opinion, although the change with varus was suprising with regards to varus. The main will never be happy with any change, it's the very nature of a retcon. No shit, retcons are destructive and by their nature poor writing. A better writer would simply find a way to make a better story within their existing framework rather than needing to make themselves a new framework. It's almost always better to expand on what exists rather than calling a do-over just because you had a different idea.
Yawn only a two bit fanfic writing could see any potential in that mess.
: I disagree that it is fruitless. The sooner people learn the old lore is not comming back the better. I'm driving home a point that riot should have drove into them.
Really? You enjoy being ignored and discard on the side? Didn't realize you people are a bunch of idiotic masochist who enjoyed getting hurt over and over again. You are your own damnnation
: > [{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Hg0R3t0A,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-12-02T13:07:40.016+0000) > > Still wonder why you even bother lol. You didn't change trundle or galio or viktors lore. Why come back like sad puppy only to be kicked down again. Because we care. And so long as we care about the lore, we will keep voicing our opinion.
And what would that achieve? They're not going to turn back the clock for you regardless of how much you moan and complain. It's been 3 years. Learn to let go m8
: > [{quoted}](name=Weedbro,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Hg0R3t0A,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-12-02T12:26:36.984+0000) > > Honestly, how do I *not* parse that as homophobia? By taking off your homophobia goggles and realizing this has nothing to do with the gay couple. Also, if you think THIS is the only time the community has ever been this outraged, you're either highly ignorant or blissfully unaware of what happens on these Boards(were you here for Galio's/Fiora's/literally any mass scale rework?).
Still wonder why you even bother lol. You didn't change trundle or galio or viktors lore. Why come back like sad puppy only to be kicked down again.
: This thread is about lore. :P
His lore got change as an after effect of his vgu. Pretty sure the narrative team hasn't even beem fully asembled then.
Skorch (NA)
: It goes both ways, both in kits, and lore. What is important. Typcially people will sum it up in 1 to 2 sentances. Meaning riot has space to work off. There still will be the "ITS PERFECT" people though.
With lore that's not the case. Just look at Viktor lol. Riot basicly kept most of his character in tact and people still complain. As for Varus, sure it was large depature from his old lore but it's not uncommon for riot to completely change old character in favour of new narratives. It's fact people should know by now.
Skorch (NA)
: I disagree, sure there would always be people that say DONT CHANG ANYTHING. But there are plenty of people that understand and even WANT an update. People have been BEGGING riot for a Nunu rework, and people would jump to say what shouldnt be changed. For instance his counterjungling. Or Yasuo, IMO his Q E and R interactions shouldnt change. But his P and W probably should.
: That's probably the reason why he was slated so early for a lore update. What do you think you're arguing? =P
No he was slated early because his kit was bonkers with half being ap and other being ad. Also even then people complained about old sions kit being changed.
: He was an Arnold Schwartzeneggar zombie with an axe. Yes, he was redefined. lol.
Arnold Schwartzeneggar zombie with a axe is not a character. It's basicly a shitty character archetype like how old pantheon was shitty spartan archetype
: Oh? A friendship line and a kill counter is enough to completely redefine a character? That'd be a fun way to approach lore updates, for sure. Who should Varus have killed and been friends with, do you think? It's definitely a winning formula. I loved the Sion lore update.
You can't redefine a character when the previous version has no character. Tell me did Old sion had a character other than some random ass dude who got revived.
Sarutobi (NA)
: It gives +4 strength duh!
Pretty sure you want dex for bows
: And he still is.
I wouldn't call boram old best friend that manage to strangle Jarvan the first in his hand a random undead general.
: Sion rework was well received.
Sion had no character in the old lore. He was basicly a random dead zombie general.
: One simple inconsistancy...
He gets his scarf in the comic.
: I disagree that it is fruitless. The sooner people learn the old lore is not comming back the better. I'm driving home a point that riot should have drove into them.
You're already taking it whether you like it or not. I simply offer you salavation to stop your suffering.
Skorch (NA)
: Riot an Idea for future lore/gameplay reworks, that would increase interactivity, and prevent Varus.
Pointless in my opinion, although the change with varus was suprising with regards to varus. The main will never be happy with any change, it's the very nature of a retcon. Trying to appease everyone will only land in disaster. It's better if they don't listen to the community, because the only ever answer you ever get is don't change anyrhing. Look at Viktor lol. Old lore fan will never be happy with the change, Riot should just focus on rebuilding the new base. Eventually the old lore nut will dies out and replace with a new set of people who care for the new lore.
: I don't care about your point of it not coming back. It's pointless. All you do is police post-spam. It's a hopeless waste of time.
I disagree that it is fruitless. The sooner people learn the old lore is not comming back the better. I'm driving home a point that riot should have drove into them.
: Bro, people can say they don't like something. You don't have to keep wrongly attacking them accusing they 'never gonna bring back old xxxxx" when he wasn't even arguing for that. He simply stated IN A FUCKING EDUCATED MANNER HIS VIEWPOINT BACKED WITH FACTS. You only making yourself look bad, mate. Stop.
No I'm stating a fact here. The old lore is not coming back. I'm not accusing anyone, but simply stating a fact. Riot won't change the Varus lore again I don't care for his points, becauae they are pointless. He can rant about how the “good” the old lore is with all his fancy speach all he wants. I'm trying to tell him the entire thing is a hopless waste of time .
: Sounds like you completely ignored the OP standing on sexuality and immediately jumped into aggressive-defense mode. Insecure male much?
Oh please that sexuality point was the most weakiest andillogical point he made. I mean Varus isn't even gay...Varus is the bloody darkin. Honestly I'm trying tell the op and pretty everyone here who are bitching and moaning about the varus lore that Riot will not with 100% certainty bring the old lore back. Cry and circle jerk all you want but at the end of the day all you have to learn to either accept the change or leave. I'm just here telling these people to hurry up and make their choice and be done with it
: Is Wu Kong still magical?
I think it would be interesting if wukong develop his abilities as the story goes on. Also I kinda want riot to still incoperate his stone born origin somewhere
IDarkIFire (EUNE)
: You won't argue because frankly you can't - you are yet to give me a logical statement as to why that "recycled" argument is wrong? It's a never ending argument because people argue without being able to give a well-founded point on why they are arguing. Hiding behind the convenient - whoever dislakes it and gives logical explanations to his dislike is a homophobe, doesn't solve the fact that you have nothing else to say.
Logical? Oh please. The old lore was stale and was your typical generic revenege story. You can argue honour or whatever you want but Varus in the old lore was a retard in my opinion. Why bother defend the temple if your going to jump in it afterwards. What did he expect the Noxian to spare his family or something? Also what story could you even tell for old varus? He'll just end up as wandering noxian murder hobo roaming the land until he is ultimately killed or succeed in his task. Not much intreste there. Well founded point? Yawn I'm not going to waste time here writing pathetic semantic with you.It's tiring task and quite frankly it's pointless. You are never going to get what you want. Flop like fish out of water all you want, but at the end of the day. You lost. Old Varus is gone and never coming back outside of an amusing reference maybe.
MysterQ (NA)
: I don't expect nor want a Retcon. What is done is done, in my mind. But what do you mean "annoying botton feeding ghost?" Riot staff?
What is done ia done and riot will continue to do it until all the champions fit into the new lore. I think you know full well who I'm refering to. If you don't I'm talking about people who still believe that riot will somehow won't retcon the old lore. Who cling on this place like a sickening plague
IDarkIFire (EUNE)
: So you completely missed out the part about me actually talking about the lore itsself - The new Lore is far from that and pales in comparison as they didn't actually loose their respective loved one but fused with him.
You mean the same recycle argument that has been puked all over the boards for the past week? Meh I'm not going to bother arguing with those subjective points, because it's never ending argument of which lore is shittier. But let me reaffirm something for you, Riot is not going to change the lore for you. It's not going to happen. Give up and leave.
: Possible compromise on varus/vaarus's lore
The darkin had their own civilization... they entered runeterra to stop the runeterrans from fucking their own homeworld. They lost because every human race have plot armour and had watch their own race slaughteree by the humans.
IDarkIFire (EUNE)
: Simple question - so why didn't they, but decided to forcefully redo an old champion who was as different to the whole notion of Gay, as the sun and moon are? You don't seem to get my main point do you? What if riot were to slap you in the face (assuming you are of homosexual orientation) and go - you be straight now! :D
Because they wanted to retcon Varus into a darkin, Val and Kal could be brothers and it would have not really effected the grander narrative they wanted to tell. Honestly pick a better point instead of their sexuality -_-
Horidas (NA)
: I feel that it can be described as great, like, acceptable, but far from perfect. I know that Valmar and Kai are meant to be a counterbalance, a plot device to make a kind of unique take on a more recent Varus backstory. They could expand on the backstory of each of the individual 3. A reason to care. about these characters that have only existed for a couple pages and some screentime, rather than this vengeful bowman that has existed in our hearts and keyboards for many years. I'm actually on the fence, I'm still just stunned from this. Riot has tossed in a lot of money for the animation that they released AFTER this controversial lore change. I have my doubts it will change, but there's always a possibility.
The lore change was planned a long time ago internally and Rioter who made the change has gotten their blessing from Varus original creators. The Varus change itself was no more drastic from character such as Warwick, Poppy, Rammus and all the other champion they ret con over the years. It's mystery on how people have yet to caught on to this fact is beyond me. Perhaps this is a good exodus for riot to clear out some annoying botton feeding ghost that should have vanished years before. As for Varus being reverted. Not a fucking chance in my opinion. Riot is dead set on going forward with the new lore, they warned about the massive amount of ret cons years ago, it's people own ignorance that resulted in their pain.
IDarkIFire (EUNE)
: Do excuse me, but i think the amout of people mad for him being changed in the first place kind of tops the rest. Bottom line is - they fucked up with this change. BIG TIME. I dare say i seriously doubt Varus' player base is a majority of homosexuals, since his original theme is clearly canonical patriarchal persona. Even if people get mad from riot reverting the changes they would be mad at Riot for the inadequate attempt of gaywashing a champion to just have some representation for a touch of color, rather than actually doing a decent job and making a champion of his own right gay...
Yawn believe what you want but Riot is not going to change shit. You can cry and moan all you want, but at the end of the day, Varus would not be changed. This isn't the days of the old lore, Riots new narrative writer aren't going bend that easily, especially to a bunch of loud minoritie who in their silly little head your repersent the entire lore fans. Riot is not going to revert something they spend thousand of dollar making, especially when the video is recieving overwhelming positive receptions. Grow up m8 Varus lore is not changing, it's a fact at this point.
IDarkIFire (EUNE)
: Let me explain to you why new Varus lore is wrong and needs to go
They're not going to change it lol. Stop trying and just leave, probably better for everyone here. Trust me their will be a sizable amount of people just as mad if riot does revert the changes. Give up this fruitless action and accept that the new lore is here to stay.
Makudo333 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=UGY6kAyg,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-02T04:14:18.594+0000) > > Kassadin and Darius(potentially). Kassadin yes definitely. Darius´s conversation with his ex-lover also gave me the vibe that he was a parent. But who do we have when this is actually a normal thing? Also, Kasassdin´s daughter got sacrificed by Malzahar / thrown into the void and Darius´s son`who he did not even know about has died. Why can´t we have a more normal parent/kid relationship, where both are alive and together
Varus son was dead in the old lore.... we never had a normal relationship. i don't see your point.
Makudo333 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=UGY6kAyg,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-02T04:00:29.175+0000) > > It's been three bloody years, they've been overriding old character for three bloody fucking years. Yet people are still questioning why. > > Look Riot is abadoning the old lore because it was creative dead zone with little to explore. Yes they are abandoning the old lore fan for the new lore which they would continue to develop once the foundation is finish and all the old lore are painted over. Lore fans are tiny percentage of league player base and eventually you'll be replace with new lore fans. > > Personally I advise people to read the lore currently, your basicly reading alot of half project which will be replace soon What does mostly sit badly with me is that we now don´t have a champion anymore who is a parent, when this is something a lot of us can actually identify with and this is normal.
They didn't do it three years ago, they're not going to do now. Give up plz
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