: Ah that makes more sense.
yes he's getting percent damage on his e and a slow im tired of % damage but I'll take any buff for cho
: The biggest issue Nasus faces is that he never truly feels tanky
give it up dad juggernauts aren't welcome here buff nasus bring back the REAL late game boys
: Ok... Which 5? Garen, Singed, Udyr, Yorick leaves me at 4
cho gath not on pbe yet but confirmed
: I think Riot is TRYING to kill 1 stance strategies on Udyr. He would be a more interesting champ if you had to pay attention to his whole kit for him to be effective, no? I agree with your conclusion, I just don't see what that's a bad thing. Many champs get changes aimed at lowering their power budget on one or two abilities in favor of making them utilize their whole kit. That makes the game better for everyone, doesn't it? You'll still get to decide what to max based on what you need per game; it's not like he's fully losing ALL of his versatility; there's still room to max various different skills and get items to help specific stances based on the game, no? TLDR; yeah, he's losing something, but have you considered what he is gaining from the changes? I'm not an Udyr main, so I can't really comment on that, but from a design standpoint, looks good to me.
it's weird that they'd kill his stance choices when a champion who chooses between assassin and juggernaut is on the PBE right now
: 5? Do Alistar/Taric count? Or am I just missing something here?
: I doubt those Singed changes will make it to live without some nerfs, but yeah its nice to see they are giving him a passive, even if it feels like it wasn't meant to be put on the pbe with how poorly its worded and named.
: This will only increase the "feast or famine" nature of Assassins though. Assassins should be high risk, high reward when making plays, not high risk, high reward when being picked in champion select.
why not, that's the nature of an assassin the safe assassins are the real cancers {{champion:7}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:432}}
Crewx (NA)
: I'll still be Juggernauting with {{champion:72}}. I refuse to be left behind, dammit.
nah ur a diver now hehe gotta get your {{item:3152}} diving gear now
Rioter Comments
: Yes it is his problem. Or rather, he's so much down that path that it actually is his primary problem.
maybe that he's too extremely low mechanic but there are plenty of well designed champion's who trade mechanics for emphasis on decision making
: Bard is hard, just not mechanically. His difficulty comes from the sheer amount of judgement you need to use. He's the only champion up there who has the capability to directly cause his allies to die
i have 200k on bard he is very easy to play after the ridiculous buffs he got
: I'm not so sure about that. Taric isn't all that strong currently. He has a modest win rate considering that his player base remains small and, I would wager, pretty dedicated. Many Taric players have long been asking for lower mana costs on his heal, in particular, which is VERY strong in the right circumstances. This isn't that big of a buff, either, but it could support a playstyle that is stronger in the current meta (maxing Q). As far as W goes, I also feel it would be much stronger if maxed first or second, and the [very, very] limited data on that seems to agree. His two highest win rate skill orders max W first. Not that it's very many games, but it CAN be viable under the right circumstances, I feel. I'm curious about this comment, though: > enchanter focus is the least fun part about him If you don't like the enchanter focus, why play Taric? Braum, Leona, and Alistar all do better as straight tanks. Out of the tanky champions in the support role, he brings the least "tank" to the table.
cuz im done letting riot rob me of my champs
: 1) Among other things. I remember his E was supposed to decrease in movement speed when hitting X amount of targets. Outcry got that change axed. 2) Any benefit to a champ eats the power budget of that champ. The question is how much.
yeah because it was shit and it was explicitly stated around the time of rework that e crit doesn't take power away from anything else
: Xin isn't a good example of champion design though. His entire kit is super binary and you succeed and fail based on stats and decision making, without any real need for mechanical skill.
lack of mechanics isn't a bad thing, and that's not really his problem
Zerenza (NA)
: Go into a game right now, play one of the hardest champions that you don't main, Evelynn, Katarina, Zed, Lee Sin, Riven, Yasuo, Vayne, Bard ect. See if you win that game on your own or if you get carried, skill cap is a good barrier for entry for a champion, it's not a weakness because all those champions i listed have very distinct weaknesses, trying playin Katarina into a team that has ANY Heal bot, good luck.
: Ever since the removal of Attack speed it's been almost un-viable on ADCs. Which is a good fucking thing. Sucks that Youmuu's is weak, but I NEVER want them to bring back the AS on that item.
bring back the crit {{champion:86}}
Chiken138 (EUW)
: Every Jaggernauts get buffed expect Volibear
needs a rework before he's buffed
: Riot, has somebody gotten Lethality twisted?
they should just take it back to flat pen if they're doin that, lol
: > [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uEdtNQRi,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2017-06-28T05:19:01.243+0000) > > nah, I've already figured it out. Garen is an assassin now > > if you don't have PBE then wait until next patch. go {{item:3147}} {{item:3142}} + full tank, those 2 are all the damage you need to delete people before they can even come out of silence with the item changes well. only problem is assassins are shit right now. if you cant kill your target in one rotation because he gets shielded, healed, has lifesteal + warlords, has a ga, youre sitting in range of a stronger opponent with nothing but much weaker auto attacks for a minimum of 5 seconds. which means youre going to die without a chance to disengage and make use of the reduced passive timer. these buffs are the same as the armor shred buff. theyre small bandaids that fix none of his issues, and are not going to last for long. i know i sound negative here, but i said the same when they added the armor shred, and it turned out to be true. these number buffs alone wont hold up over time. i appreciate that theye trying, but i wish theyd try just a bit larger and more meaningful changes than this.
i just avoid teamfights entirely as garen, which i do for most juggernauts because lol @ trying to teamfight with most of them supports and their items getting a nice nerf would be a godsend, they're making this game dumb
: Basically that. Garen was going to have some power shaved out of a few spots, like his E, but then people started going "BUT I WANT HIS E TO CRIT! THAT'S ICONIC!"...among other things. Rest is history.
E having crit doesn't take up any of his power budget
: This will defiantly make him viable since his greatest weakest sustain, this changes that.
on PBE i've been playing around with the buffed lethality items {{item:3147}} gives you ridiculous amounts of lane bullying/kill pressure with that extra 150 damage, and you can reset it by abusing the bush aggro to keep doin' it. stack it with {{item:3142}} or {{item:3814}} just one of these, then go full tank. ridiculously hard hitting but still tanky i think garen has a real niche now, and i'm very happy with it
: Thank you based Rito Gods for the Garen buffs to his passive and w!!!
garen feels very strong as a pseudo-assassin on PBE i think these changes helped a lot with that, lower cooldown on passive late game + much stronger but shorter W makes him really hard to kill while he's tearing shit up
: It seems to me like they are trying to re-inforce his enchanter style. If you look at the best Taric builds in "high elo" (plat+), you see that most Tarics that are successful are doing some combination of Face of the Mountain and Locket of the Iron Solari. Most people level up his E because of the increase in stun duration. This sort of build emphasizes the Warden aspect of his kit. The downside of that build is that Starlight's Touch feels weak and Bastion feels irrelevant most of the time. What these changes do, essentially, is encourage you to level Q or W instead of E, since the stun duration doesn't go up anymore at all. If you level Q, you might be tempted to run a more enchanter-style build, as well, which is again re-inforced by the increased mana regen on early levels. As a fellow Taric enthusiast, I am glad they are looking into this and I am happy, overall, about the direction. I have long advocated maxing Q first, and I'm hoping these changes make that even more viable. This might also make you think about using redemption earlier in your build, and stacking Ardent Censer on top of that. Depending on how these changes shake out, I could see Taric become a much better healer because of these small changes. As it was, he really needed levels in E to make that ability useful; that is less true with these changes. The main takeaway is that E with one point is now as good as the rank 3 skill used to be, minus some damage (let's be honest, you don't care about that damage). That's a decent improvement. This is about making levels in Q and W more attractive by making levels in E less good. I think. Someone else correct me if needed. Where's Fondling Gems at?
idk why they would want to do that, enchanter focus is the least fun part about him why would i ever want to max Q first when the base value is so pathetic, especially for how taxing it is on my mana pool. and W will never be a viable first max because it's a % scaling factor; it'll always be a second or last thing it's mostly just a big buff that he didn't need, to parts of him that weren't suffering anyway
: Can I please get some context behind the new Taric changes?
: Garen recieved buffs to his passive! Garen Perseverance (P): [new effect] "increased to [Double Initial Value]% of max health if Garen is below [20/25/50% at level 1/5/11] health."
thanks for letting me know
Sovekz (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uEdtNQRi,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-06-27T23:46:24.445+0000) > > Garen was added by surprise > > I don't think I'm very happy about the change, they're halving the duration at max rank and the compensation is negligible I personally don't like it, perhaps if it were at least 4 seconds, it could work, otherwise I definitely don't like it.
nah, I've already figured it out. Garen is an assassin now if you don't have PBE then wait until next patch. go {{item:3147}} {{item:3142}} + full tank, those 2 are all the damage you need to delete people before they can even come out of silence with the item changes
Rexxiee (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WtnPXno1,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-06-28T05:10:24.895+0000) > > idk why y'all are complaining > > Lethality items are fucking strong on PBE Nerfing the damage for useless stats = fucking strong. Lethality is already worthless damage wise as it is because tabi exists and can completely invalidate it for 1100 gold, but hey lets reduce GB 5 ad and duskblade 10 ad and give them very little in return.
you are seriously underestimating the value of 150 flat physical damage. duskblade is a very powerful first item now
Slaxer (NA)
: Riot what are you doing with the assassin item changes?
idk why y'all are complaining Lethality items are fucking strong on PBE
KoKoboto (NA)
: If Vayne was controlled by a Darkin what would the theme be
well if it's sticking to the four horsemen allegory aatrox is war rhaast is death ??? famine ??? pestilence i don't see Vayne doing either of those other 2, so I'd just say she's fanatical
: https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/33414967/kayn.gif He's the perfect fit for people who like to be a tough as nails Fighter who brawls in the front line. Fun fact; it's ALL % max HP damage. Full build your Q is a 36% max HP damage nuke with a 3 second cd. And R heals you for 40% of the enemy's max HP. Before counting the 43% heal you get off the damage your abilities deal.
i have PBE too, i know i've been going for a tanky build myself, not as much raw damage but I'm inclined toward survivability {{item:3748}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3065}} what i like to rock, but i'd like to experiment with other builds as well like swapping titanic for warrior and visage for edge of night, maybe. more glass build but much higher output
: After 5 PBE games. You can get Rhaast around level 5-8ish if you're doing well.
that's been my conclusion, too i really enjoy rhaast as a character, just so well put together
Rioter Comments
Ralanr (NA)
: I'm probably going to get the Rhaast icon. Rhaast is fun.
rhaast is so much neater than kayn i wish i could start the game as rhaast
: > [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bkWfI3j2,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-28T01:01:43.313+0000) > > is it even a buff? seems like it'll be worse later on, especially for handling dps champions > > for waiting MONTHS for a garen change i'm a little peeved > > at least lethality buffs are good for garen kindof unsure about that myself. its a stronger, windowed damage reduction, but man. its not entirely double the value for half the duration. it can make for a lot of damage reduction in clutch situations when hes facing burst, but youre right. its not a buff against sustained damage dealers. at least the cooldown is going down.
I think this might push him to want more AD shorter window of stronger durability means that he'll feel a little more pressured to do something with it. i've been experimenting with {{item:3074}} -- deceptively good, by the way -- but the lethality items might make me just go {{item:3142}} {{item:3147}} into tank, or something similar. the bigger bonus proc on duskblade is a nice power spike for snowballing early on, too still, I was hoping for something a little more "meaningful," since this doesn't change garen being so brainless
: We are finally starting to see the negative impacts of Ghostcrawler
boards posters would blame ghostcrawler if they stubbed their toe
: Well shit, I didn't even know it had that internal cooldown of 2 seconds. Oh well. Still, I wouldn't say it's ONLY good for breaking towers. Since Yorick is really the only toplane juggernaut that builds Triforce as much as he does it's easy to forget what makes it important for him. It'd honestly be hard to stop it from being his go-to item unless Riot puts in a new item that promotes absolutely everything he excels at while working on his weaknesses at the same time. A little bit of AD won't fix how devastating even minor disengage abilities are to him in comparison to other champions like phage does. Having less cooldown reduction or loss of the increased output from his most reliable ability via Sheen can really make the downtime when his Ghouls, E and R are not available downright crippling.
ya i know it's too many changes needed to do what I want, he'd need some Illaoi-tier AD scalings to want to go that route and an easier time stacking ghouls/keeping them alive in fights but that's fine, yorick just isn't a champ for my taste
Rioter Comments
: While the grounding on W is pretty awesome (And an idea that's been thrown around the Singed community for a long time), the compensation nerfs on it are pretty big (75% Slow for 5 seconds is pretty juicy lategame)
https://imgur.com/a/hODzw yaaaaas new passive
: Who is your LEAST favorite champion to play?
probably volibear i don't think I've ever seen a hero design in any game that does as little as Volibear does
: So how bad/okay is Karthus?
karthus is pretty strong but don't pick him into mid assassins
: Triforce provides attack speed for synergy with the Maiden's bonus damage, Sheen for more reliable damage output on his Q, and Phage to get in range and stick to his opponents. Triforce benefits him plenty in ways that promote his juggernaut-style gameplay. I'm not sure what kind of item you want to synergize with him, some kind of Black Cleaver without the Cleaver or a Blade of the Ruined King less AS more AD and HP instead of lifesteal? I'd say Triforce is good enough at what it does well and should be appreciated. Not to mention how instead of a threatening juggernaut you'd prefer someone who relies even more on minion summoning then he already does -- is it really desirable to focus his entire buildpath into his minions? An item change or two is fine but this would make Riot go down a completely different path. No one would want a melee malzahar 2.0 in that his potential completely flops once he loses them.
attack speed does not synergize with Maiden's damage, it has an internal cooldown of 2 seconds. a.spd is just for autos tforce is almost expressly built so he can bop people (and turrets) harder with Q, and i'm not a fan of it
: > [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bkWfI3j2,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-28T00:45:47.994+0000) > > patch 7.14 > > juggernauts return to their top lane throne didnt even see the garen buff. though if this is the only change to him with the w, i fear this will turn out like the armor shred buff. its a bandaid, but doesnt fix any major issue with his kit. im not even sure its enough to bring him to 50% winrate. especially with such a drastic cleaver nerf in the same patch.
is it even a buff? seems like it'll be worse later on, especially for handling dps champions for waiting MONTHS for a garen change i'm a little peeved at least lethality buffs are good for garen
: Patch 7.14
patch 7.14 juggernauts return to their top lane throne
: 7.14 Juggernaut Changes
Singed [large set of changes, hold tight!] Base health increased from 542.76 to 610 Health growth increased from 82 to 90 Poison Trail (Q): AP ratio increased from 30% to 40% Damage changed from 22/34/46/58/70 to 20/30/40/50/60 Mega Adhesive (W) Mana cost lowered from 70/80/90/100/110 to 60/70/80/90/100 Cooldown changed from 14 at all ranks to 17/16/15/14/13 Slow changed from 35/45/55/65/75% to 40% at all ranks Adhesive duration lowered from 5 secs to 3 secs Fling (E) Mana cost lowered from 100/110/120/130/140 to 80/95/110/125/140 Insanity Potion (R): Mana cost lowered from 150 to 100 Stat bonus changed from 35/50/80 to 35/60/85 Singed changes are finally up The biggest change is that W now grounds, which is a VERY strong buff. His AP ratio is up on his Q but I don't know if this will really 'fix' him or gear him back towards bruiser builds. Base stat changes might mean there's an undocumented passive change, we'll see soon
: Did you just betray assassin mains?
idk what the slow is for but the physical damage is basically a replacement of the lethality-scaling true damage now instead of making more lethality for more true damage you need lethality to make the physical damage proc hurt harder
Rioter Comments
Ralanr (NA)
: Imo just talk. They are probably very powerful, but more in the sense of one man armies if anything.
probably, if a human like Kayn is able to destroy them (which i can't actually figure out why he'd do that, if darkin are powerful)
: 7.14 Juggernaut Changes
Garen was added by surprise I don't think I'm very happy about the change, they're halving the duration at max rank and the compensation is negligible
: yeah, literally the only champ not picked in master+ he's fine i guess
https://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/ ctrl+f 'taric' seems to be doing fine to me
: Wait, Alistar and Taric buffs?
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Big Lincoln

Level 30 (NA)
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