Sujiren (NA)
: Lol
thankyou for signing have a nice day remember, tanks must die
Kloqdq (NA)
: Jesus Lincoln you are just flying on the front page today.
Sujiren (NA)
: Is she really that bad?
sign my petition to get her gutted so we don't have to see this tumor of a rework any longer
: Can we change Vaynes passive?
Rioter Comments
Karfuss (EUW)
: They really don't though, as I've already mentioned in one example. They have different strengths that interact differently within kit and outside it. "They're all just shields" is massively disingenuous.
shields {{champion:427}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:412}} heals {{champion:12}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:44}} MS bonus for allies {{champion:432}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:37}} damage add-on {{champion:40}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:37}} i dont consider how they apply it to matter, much like the reworked tanks; they offer nothing but CC so the slight variations on how it's applied are not important
: If you think Shen's sustained damage is immense, you may not like this game, friendo.
: I'm a diehard Lulu support onetrick and I'm always *thrilled* to support non-ADCs botlane-- mages (hello Ziggs), bruisers, or even light fighters. Zeke's s5 rework was a good attempt, but was way too teamfight-centered to even proc its active. It's always nice being able to bind to mages when your ADC is useless, while your mage mid is the one carrying the game. But too bad crit eventually got handed out like free candy, so no one builds it anymore. Ok you know what, I just want to see Ardent's ally-shielding buff reverted back to release version where it only gave attackspeed. Its buffs were nothing but a result of bad players complaining that it needed buffs because it wasn't straight up overpowered. And make Zeke's give AP and AD instead. We supports should get the choice to help anyone on the team, not just my (probably will be useless) ADC.
i'd like to see supports reworked to have less generic strengths and focus more on specific empowerments if not that then there could at least be more choices in items, some ideas would be... flat resist reduction on an enemy, % health based bonuses for tanks and juggernauts (either offensive or defensive), AP bonus that isn't super-awkward to activate like zeke's was, maybe something like force staff as an item (im aware of how hard this would fuck me though), an item that lets you fling allies {{champion:420}} into enemies just shit like that, all these supp items only giving heals and shields or making heals and shields stronger is boring
Sujiren (NA)
: Lux W , is really boring ability design wise
it's actually one of my favorite spell designs
Karfuss (EUW)
: Having a stun, having a knockup, having a heal and having a shield doesn't mean they interact in the same way. That's disingenuous. Lulu's shield allows her to reposition Pix for Q, and cause your passive to trigger on ally attacks. It also does damage if targeting the enemy. That isn't quite the same as say, Janna and Karma's shield. While they may have shields, pretending that they're the same and don't have different skill expression is hyperbolic.
i didn't claim they were identical but they do undoubtedly share a massive amount of the same general strength profile
: Malzahar still needs major changes
malzahar has been through enough, let him rest for a while
: He's pretty much only strong when enchanters are strong and can boost his dps enough and also peel for him. He probably won't be seen as often when ardent takes a hit.
kog is good whenever its a tank meta
: Of course they do, Lincoln! *Pats on the head* *Whispers to the fourth wall* "No, they don't."
FilDaFunk (EUW)
: Supports enhance their team. So their power relies on their team. That's not something you can remove.
i didn't say remove but i could come up with plenty of new things to add to them
: I thought they were each pretty unique tho
not really, you can sum up a lot of the classical supports to do a lot of the same
: Riot is "assessing Nautilus' needs", and as a kind person I decided to help them out
Rioter Comments
: Volibear has too much counterplay. What the rework needs to address.
shameless self-advert since we're on about volibear i agree tho, but primarily for separate reasons, i think volibear could be solved just by having a way to threaten ranged champions from a distance, however situationally it might be
: > [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b1s0lf27,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2017-08-21T00:53:36.638+0000) > > old galio had a very high winrate on average though? That's just what happens when there is only a very small and almost nonexistent group of dedicated and diehard players of a champ. As far as grand scheme is concerned, it counts as "nobody". > new galio is the epitome of generic tank shit and is the single worst interpretation of an anti-mage i've ever seen in a game. horribly uninspired The only aspects of old Galio being anti-mage were just his MR conversion to AP and his shield giving some MR anyway, the majority of his kit had nothing to do with it. In fact, they don't even have to do with anything: His old Q was a generic AoE harass/waveclear, his E was a bad team MS buff, and his R was both wrong/make-no-sense-to-his-kit and uninspired as the games "self-centered AoE ulti #3291". Not to mention most of his kit becomes irrelevant after 10 min into the game and he became some wandering bot that would occasionally give 1 shield to an ally and flash-ulti. It was very darn clear that Galio needed the change, his kit was just awful. And voila, guess what, most of the aspects on his kit besides the on-hit aspect of the shield has actually been kept and improved. His damage and sustain are now directly scaled with MR instead of the indirect 1-to-0.5 conversion from MR to AP and then do another 1-to-0.5 conversion due to partial scaling. His kit is better fleshed out then before with better cohesion. He can still poke with his AoE waveclear. His AoE taunt is still there. His shield while working differently, it's still technically there as damage reduction (and scales with MR). His E is no longer useless after level 2 and actually gives him decent gapclose and without overloading him with mobility by disallow him to cross terrains. His R no longer requires him to flash to use it. What's there to complain about? As I've said, people are only complaining about Galio because of the visual change. Because most of them have 0 idea what Galio even was to begin with.
>What's there to complain about? the fact that his new kit is awful to play against as a champion with ridiculous base damage and scaling and 3 hard CCs? or that the only time he isn't hyper-dominant in pro play is when he's completely trashed and made a troll pick in soloQ? new galio is the epitome of a generalist who does absolutely everything you could want from a tank (poke, damage, CC, ally protection, waveclear) with the added bonus of getting to hard-statcheck mages by stocking up on magic resist and getting a magic shield even if he's not actually building against AP threats. his new kit is horrible design with no real drawback to any of the myriad strengths he has and that's more than evident by the fact riot hit him with an orbital strike not long after his relaunch because they knew they fucked up
WinBoat (NA)
: If a tank did no damage at all, they would be useless. They already die quite fast than they did in 2016. In any MMO, MOBA, all tank classes can beat squishies, and deal damage. Get used to it and again, learn to play better. Position better, build correctly. This is secret OP, build frozen mallet on your ADC. Problem solved.
no they wouldn't, they have stupid amounts of CC right now. tanks are OP as is and they apparently "don't do damage" right now tank mains who want to be able to do everything lul. i'm not an ADC player btw
: > [{quoted}](name=Oreowannabe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b1s0lf27,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-08-20T21:24:40.985+0000) > > Think of how many champions have been reworked, or their kits have changed for absolutely no reason just because riot wanted to "give personality to them" or some crap Riot is not just updating champs for no reason, and you know this. Whatever you say about Riot, this I will not stay by. Most of the reworks that they did to "give personality to them" have both been good AND necessary, the ones that are actually bad are say the shoddy class updates which they've stopped doing and the forced reworks due to the whims of forced meta-shifts, which you didn't even mention. If you are just going to do a typical whine about Galio and Urgot, they were reworked because literally, NO ONE was playing them, NO ONE was winning with them. They literally didn't exist in the game whatsoever until they were reworked, and suddenly everyone is their main bitching about how their favourite and best designed champs are butchered or whatever. And it's not even that big of a change with all things considered, just things get rearranged and redesigned, but most things are still there. Why do people moan about them? Because most have no idea what those champs even were, and just wanted something to cry about it after seeing their visual re-design, arguably the biggest change in those champ, as if that actually matters.
old galio had a very high winrate on average though? new galio is the epitome of generic tank shit and is the single worst interpretation of an anti-mage i've ever seen in a game. horribly uninspired
Ralanr (NA)
: Sion.
the only tank where most of his damage can just be stopped from happening. not even avoided, most champs can just full-stop prevent him from doing damage you can't say the same for any other tank
WinBoat (NA)
: Then you should lose some attack speed, and damage. Watch the pros play. ADC's always top the DPS graphs, or mid laners. Low elos complain too much. Lots of feeding goes on in low elo, no playing safe. So yeah tanks get fed easy cause they punish low elyo players positions, and mistakes.
i should lose damage playing champions who are intended to be damage threats? no way in hell should a tank with cc on 3 or 4 abilities be allowed to do significant damage
WinBoat (NA)
: Tanks should do damage too.
then you should lose some cc
Rioter Comments
: The real hecarim is an unholy abomination of a man ontop of a horse. He is not short.
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2MEUmOt7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-08-21T00:26:44.535+0000) > > The real hecarim is an unholy abomination of a man ontop of a horse. He is not short. illaoi big girl though
: Fallout 4 Ending
they're all kinda loony but i picked institute in my first run so i could get that dank white X-01 paint
: I think Riot is composed of multiple people. Therefore, multiple brains.
all inferior to my infinite intellect
magewick (NA)
: A big part of the problem is that people don't seem to understand that a balanced champion and a meta champion are two completely different things. Champions need to be overpowered to be in the meta. Juggernauts as a class are underpowered but not nearly to the extent that people are claiming. Juggernauts only need a few changes to be balanced. Juggernauts need a ton of changes to be in the meta. However, the meta is made up of overpowered champions who need to be nerfed. The proper way to balance juggernauts is to buff them up to the power of an average champion while nerfing the top tier champions down to the level of the average champion.
juggernauts probably won't be meta unless they're hilariously broken like Cho'Gath the concept of what they are is very easy to exploit mainly due to how even the champs they're supposed to shit on (tanks) will still make them worthless in a teamfight because they've all been reworked to have absurd amounts of lockdown but i don't really care about making them meta; as long as i can actually contribute to teamfights again i'd be happy
: Sejuani is a bad example because she's a tank. Tanks generally have hard CC. Maybe she's too mobile, sure, but she's got a fair amount of it. {{champion:40}} would be a better example. A ranged character who has a knock-up, a knockback and a slow. But really, it's not directly CC being overabundant but displacement spells. Most champions coming out usually have some form of displacement (Usually like a 0.75 second knock-up/back) and a slow or snare. Urgot? Slow, Displacement and Suppress. Rakan? Knock-up and a Charm. Xayah? Root. Kayn? Slow or Knock-up. If there's better hard (non-displacement) CC and better tenacity, there's actual pros/cons to CC now rather than "Just get as many knock-ups so you can chain CC with no counter".
it's definitely too much CC in general, it should not be on 3 or all 4 spells of a champion's kit {{champion:113}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:154}} and i'll even list {{champion:79}} tbh, his Q slow is stupid and his 2 displacements are too/ all of these champs are balance nightmares because you will never find a good spot for a complete CC beast to be 'fair' in a solo lane. these designs only work on gold-starved support tanks
: > [{quoted}](name=TheDesoIation,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HQRRgnNW,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-08-20T16:04:31.025+0000) > > Those buffs wouldnt really help him,his attack speed isnt the problem with volibear right now.For voli to become viable again he would need to be totally reworked,his kit can be so easily exploited yeah but at the same time in his current state if she DOES reach you.. he is unstoppable... becuase of his bite and him going full tank needing no damage... i agree he needs a full rework.. becuase he is either an unstoppable monster in your face . or a unstoppable monster that cant reach you and is therefore useless..
that's not true at all, volibear's a weak duelist he's good at early game counterganks and picking off squishies
: In other words, combine that with a kayle ult on a juggernaut, and you get Poppy's old ult in the game again? No. Just... No. I play support 90% of the time, and let me tell you that having an item that allows the likes of {{champion:86}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:14}} and I'm sure I'm missing a few, free access to the back line(bar slows, of which don't always cut it) just because they brought ghost instead of flash? At that point, why even bother trying to peel? Juggernauts are able to be high damage, high defense champs because they, with the exception of {{champion:102}} with her ult(which is her niche, the juggernaut with an occasional gap closer), do not have gap closers and are capable of being kited(note that {{champion:14}} and {{champion:120}} {{champion:27}} are not juggernauts, they just don't have dashes and would benefit from the item). They already have {{item:3111}}, a mastery, some skills, and the elixer to gain anti-cc measures(~~i do realize that this is what the post is about, but bear with me~~ nevermind, that was another thread I had open), and they have {{item:3742}} for helping being kited, do they really need a way to ignore most forms of cc, without the enemy team being able to take countermeasures?
dmp isn't an anti-kite item, you lose stacks when CC'd DMP is for enabling these guys to get around the map quicker like a less strong mobi boots on a tank item
: Now let's wait five patches before he finishes his thought
: Nerf Support Items, Buff Support Kits
supports need a rework to differentiate from each other first they share far too many of the same strengths to be reasonable
: support power needs to be separated from marksmen power
finally put something down :^) now we can have a real conversation hehe
: How exactly are you supposed to do that? Stats buffs benefit adcs the most. Shields and heals benefit adcs the most. CDR means more shields and buffs which benefits adcs the most. What kind of supports or support items are you gonna make that don't disproportionately benefit adcs?
items that aren't just raw stat buffs would be a good start
: Now let's wait five patches before he finishes his thought
articulating what i want to say about this is rly hard give me more time
: What's You Guy's Last Words on Ornn Before Release?
Rioter Comments
Dr Poro (EUW)
: You say mobility is not the problem, but you give examples of mobile MELEE champs. But then there's {{champion:51}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:18}} and their mobility IN COMBINATION with CC are just a pain in the ass.
cait, ez lucian i don't really mind kalista and tristana are obnoxious because they combine both of these things on TOP of very high reliability
: There are no unique support playstyles. They're all the same. Top, mid, jung, and adc have unique players with unique identities. The support role is one big ball of unskillful champions that lack gameplay identity
enchanters* I think that the tank supports are actually really well-diversified from each other
: as long as you don't bring back her old W sure the obnoxious thing about old sejuani is that she was pure stat checking give her counterplay, damage, not loaded with cc, and that's fine
but really let me have that old flail animation she used to have on W i don't even care if it has some goofy outer-range like Darius Q watching her spin that flail is what gets me goin
: ??
makin the mother of all omelettes
: Scientists are baffled
go home and be a family man
: as long as you don't bring back her old W sure the obnoxious thing about old sejuani is that she was pure stat checking give her counterplay, damage, not loaded with cc, and that's fine
can she still have that sexy flail animation tho tbh
: > [{quoted}](name=LankPants,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QcpbTEF9,comment-id=00030000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-20T15:45:35.124+0000) > > > Here's the question though, if new Sej is at least equally cancer, does it not make sense to bring back the more unique champion that Sej was before her rework that Sej mains at least seem to prefer. > no, what would make more sense is to rework her again > [{quoted}](name=LankPants,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QcpbTEF9,comment-id=00030000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-20T15:45:35.124+0000) > > Before you bring up "more people play Sej now than before", more people played her when Cinder was broken than now, people play broken shit. before cinderhulk was buffed she had 4.9% pick rate which was higher than pre-rework
would you agree to reworking her to be more like old sej in theme and playstyle but healthier like I've asked for many times
: LUL, i just like to say sir ironically, but i can't with u that's all
: Why deas noone ever mention {{champion:78}} when she has CC on every ability? Is it that one of them works only on champions with dashes and thus is protected from critique on Big Lincoln's posts? That's not hate or something, just a genuine question.
I have complained about poppy in the past, you can look up any of my tank threads and I probably mentioned her
Penns (EUW)
: sorry for what? our daddy taught us not to be ashamed of our juggernauts. especially since theyre such good range and all
: When 3 words and a picture has more upvotes then the post
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Big Lincoln

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