: @Meddler/Maple Nectar, A great window of opportunity for future [[Wukong]] based on [[Dev Diary]]
I worry about him being an "ADC replacement" after remembering what happened with {{champion:82}}, but I do think if any champ could pull that off, he could. especially after playing Paragon and seeing how their Wukong can work as a carry just by trading range for Zoning potential. On top of that, if Riot is really trying to make it so champs can be played in more roles including having melee ADCs, then it wouldn't hurt to give him the chance to do so. Also looking at what you said about improving Wukong's kit, it actually sounds pretty similar to my ideas for his kit I've been working on :p
: @Meddler, Can we get any thoughts on {{champion:62}} ? anything, future plans, his current state at the moment [[although its very well known his current state is a disaster]], and why wasnt he touched for 4 straight years? His passive is non-existent, he has no room for creative playstyle an outplaying anyone. WAnna play him toplane? will get out-poked out sustained and bullied out of lane easily any level given. Wanna play him in the jungle? plenty of room for counter jungling him and keeping him behind , he has no extra damage or any advantage or fast clear, no sustain and pre-6 no ganks potential at all. Even at level 6 his gank is a hit or miss with all the CC available in most champs. I've been seeing A LOT of {{champion:102}} lately, she's a beast her clear is the fastest it's ridiculous + the amount of damage she does for a Tanky champions is so high you cant duel her at all, u need at least 3 to stop her lategame! this is the huge gap you've created between champions , creating beasts while keeping others behind and literally unplayable. I just would like to know WHY aren't you answering our questions regarding Wukong? Why cant you give him the {{champion:245}} and {{champion:222}} treatment?
Upvoted. I keep asking about Wukong getting a gameplay update but it keeps getting lost in the comments :L
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 19
Is there any word on when {{champion:62}} and when he might be getting a gameplay update?
: Which Champions would you like to see changed?
{{champion:62}} He has some good potential for some cool mechanics that he doesn't quite live up too currently. one thing I'd really love to see is being the premiere clone maker, able to make multiple clones as that's technically already his thing (thought not very apparent) and something that no other champ has as a mechanic. {{champion:35}} and {{champion:7}} can make clones, but only Wukong would make multiple at once.
Rioter Comments
Doozku (NA)
: Swain Teaser in English
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/333012091051180033/403662071713103902/SwainUpvote.gif
Thilmer (EUW)
: Confessions: skins you want for fanservice reasons.
A {{champion:62}} skin that doesn't reference Journey to the West :L
: Another salty monkey
: On a scale of 1 to 10, how hyped are you for the Swain VGU?
I'm at an 8 and slowly declining for every patch I don't see the teaser. I get that he's coming soon, but I was expecting "Starting the year off with a teaser", not "wait through 3 patches to *possibly* get a teaser for him to be released the following patch". Every week that goes by that he doesn't get teased makes me have less and less hope for this year being the "year full of champ updates" that Riot was making it out to be. Still an 8 cause its still pretty early and who knows how much stuff Swain is bringing with him, but if we don't get that teaser soon, I may be dropping to a 5 in no time. EDIT: and as soon as I say that, the next day... {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: Nobody ever plays with Jade Dragon Wukong skin since the update...
Its not a bad skin and I do still like to use it, but really there isn't much reason to use anything other then Radiant or Underworld. every other skin just doesn't compare. I don't know if Riot can do much for those skins outside of updating them for a VGU (which I suspect would be far off from now), but I think it would help to make some chromas at least.
Wuks (NA)
: For YOUR eyes only owo
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/333012091051180033/403334710631333889/giphy.gif
: 2018 Chromas
{{champion:62}} chromas Blukong, pls and thank you Rito
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 16
Has there been any word on when {{champion:62}} might be seeing a Gameplay update?
: Top Lane vs Other Roles
Meanwhile when I go Mid cause I don't like playing Top anymore: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/333012091051180033/402540405893234688/steve-buscemi.png
kargish (EUW)
: You know what Wukong really needs?
Quite frankly I think this would be the best, least invasive change Riot could give him (which is good for those who want him to be the same) imo. It wouldn't be something that would increase his win rate much if at all, but would still help to just clean Wukong up a bit. If Riot can make something like a bug for {{champion:92}} smoother and more reliable because it became an indispensable tool for her kit, I don't see why they can't do the same and make Wukong's decoy look like he pressed S.
: A Very well constructed , but in the Pros section you've placed {{champion:62}} as equal to {{champion:254}} and {{champion:5}} for example. {{champion:254}} has 2 way to engage the enemy, could get her shield, armor shred and 2 types of CC at the same time. {{champion:5}} E is almost the same as {{champion:62}} but faster, which leaves less space for reaction, he has the ability to push all enemies back but not the target, he has ranged spear [supposed to be Wu's trait but yea +125 range on Q is enough based on Riot's point of view], can HEAL from passive and has 3 types of CC knockup slow, slow and knockback. on the otherhand {{champion:62}} has unreliable easily ignored passive that is dependent on the surrounding enemy champions, his only gap closer could be denied in any form of CC , and has a knockup that is a hit or miss, and is on a long CD There's a big difference in playstyle of those champs, + the pick ratio proves the viability of each. Wu is outdated with less opening for creativity, if he missed his E he doesnt have W like Xin's, if vi missed her Q he could cast R on point click. It's no longer reasonable posting more about Wu's pros and cons and what should be fixed or how. The message that Riot sent was clear and straight forward. ADC and tanks are more favorable [based on that login theme]. The popular champs are more favorable [based on that new cinematic]. IF they could just learn from Paragon [they released Wukong few months ago], and check his playstyle and Kit, I believe they could rework a one hell of a {{champion:62}} in this game.
I don't mean to compare {{champion:254}} and {{champion:5}} to {{champion:62}} in every aspect. like you said, their abilities differ greatly. I was just picking out one aspect from their kits that was similar in a very broad sense, like {{champion:254}} being a diver without inbuilt healing, but having a different form of durability or {{champion:5}} having a point and click dive (that also gives bonus attack speed, which to me makes their point and click dives the most similar over other point and click dives). They differ greatly from {{champion:62}} especially now with {{champion:5}}'s updated kit, but I feel they still made sense in the areas I was talking about. As for Riot favoring ADCs and Tanks, either way I'm still going to try my best to get that end goal of an update and even if I can't then at least I know I gave it my best shot. I know Riot mentioned he still pops up in discussion in meetings, so there is some hope. Even if we get the Champion roadmap for this year and they decide to update {{champion:59}} instead of {{champion:62}}, I'm still going to try and make that push. But I do agree with the idea of learning from Paragon Wukong's kit. I don't know how much of that would work in league and how much they could add without him becoming a completely different champ, but Wukong is a champ with the rare circumstance that an actual version of him exists in many different MOBAs. It wouldn't hurt to look how other games have used his concept for different perspectives on him, especially if it's the issue that no one can think of a cool way to update him.
: >His ult is part of the debate of why people think he can build as a Tank. He pretty much hasn't gotten work done since Riot updated classes, so him being exactly on point to fit in one class or another likely won't happen until they do update him. wtf !!! Its mainly cause his only one CC is on his ult u won't build him tank, only very low players and people with low understanding will build him tank (1 cc every 2min ). Dont even know how u aren't choked for someone advicing aftershock for Wukong ?!! Even for a Tank like Malphite after shock isn't great
just trying to keep this a positive post as best I can and not try to get into arguments (I've seen quite a few people who will defend the idea of Tank Wukong to no end...). I also did try to explain that people prefer him being a damage dealer and how he works better as a follow up to an initiation. As for the aftershock thing, I could have said something true, but I was really trying to keep the idea of keeping this post as positive as I can and sort of didn't think about trying to advise against using aftershock, so that's my bad >.<
Draffyr (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=Ai6dv4VQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-14T20:05:52.194+0000) > > None of the above, my favorite is Goku {{champion:62}} I'm not sure if you're saying that just as a Dragonball reference or also because Goku is the Japanese name for the god named Wukong in Chinese mythology...
: I am upvoting this post not just because it is well done in my opinion but also because I cannot bear to think of such a long and very clearly well thought-out post being lost because the Boards don't care unless you're screaming at Riot.
Thank you very much. I don't believe anything gets done by just complaining to Riot, but plenty can be done if they get valuable feed back. Also I relay hate to argue, so I tried my best to get my point across without stepping on too many toes >.<
: People say he's late game, yet I find he often bursts you to death really hard even in the early game.
That's mostly due to him building Assassin anymore in my opinion. People focus on his burst potential first and that can lead to him being pretty strong damage wise even early game since people don't really differ too much with health early game. Also may be partly due to his lack of sustain, which he might be compensated on with more AD, but that would involve checking a LOT of top laners base AD to be sure. My advice, take {{champion:122}} or {{champion:86}}. They can punish him for getting close and can heal from his attempts to burst them relatively easily. Unless Wukong gets sustain in his runes, he will likely have a hard time recovering from any kind of damage he takes, making it a question of "can he kill you before you chunk down his health?".
Mimr (EUW)
: I mostly don't even see him as a diver really but more as a vanguard. Damage scales nearly completely off of total AD (so high base damage), his E-R is some of the best initiation in the game (albeit kind of short ranged) and procs Aftershock very easily, his passive gains power when he's near multiple champions, he likes absorbing CC because his R is not a channel and unless you build full assassin with triforce + duskblade his singletarget burst isn't great which encourages trying to catch as many people as possible in your R instead of going after squishies. I find him best when he builds at least 3 tank items + Black Cleaver and then knocks up and shreds the armor of the entire enemy team with his R.
His ult is part of the debate of why people think he can build as a Tank. He pretty much hasn't gotten work done since Riot updated classes, so him being exactly on point to fit in one class or another likely won't happen until they do update him. But I know people prefer to build damage on him (even his current meta build is Assassin) and while his Ult works pretty good for initiation, for me it's even better when being a follow up to an initiation. Something like having {{champion:32}} Ult, then have Wukong follow up with his Ult works really well or having {{champion:61}} Ult then having Wukong follow up on her works wonders. For me, I like him being a Diver because from that point he can potentially do a little bit of everything and is open to a lot more versatility then being a Tank or an Assassin specifically.
: I think the champs that need QoL buffs the most are the ones with terrible swing animations.
{{champion:62}} His basic attack animation has him sort of swatting at an enemy with his staff instead of fighting like a trained staff user. In short, he attacks like this https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/333012091051180033/402265597490102282/200w_d_7.gif When he should be attacking like this https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/333012091051180033/402265879661772820/giphy_23.gif
Rioter Comments
Skelenth (EUW)
: Who's your favourite League character?
None of the above, my favorite is Goku {{champion:62}}
: Describe a Champion in one sentence to somebody who doesnt play LoL
{{champion:3}} Goliath from Gargoyles, but bigger, made of stone all the time and no Fabio hair {{champion:44}} Where Galios Fabio hair went {{champion:164}} Sword legs {{champion:110}} 2 guys, 1 demonic bow {{champion:62}} Wukong, who you might know from Journey to the West, Enslaved: Odyssey to the West, Warriors Orochi, Dragon Ball, Paragon, Dota 2, Smite, That one Chinese skin for Winston in Overwatch, Warframe, etc., etc. {{champion:115}} Sort of a badger that loves bombs {{champion:81}} The reason we can't have nice things... {{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}}
: I've been playing Rekan for a few games and listening to his comments has led me to make this
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/329080223394168843/401547104784220160/ezgif-3-6e3fc66b6f.gif Best waifu is {{champion:267}} http://img04.deviantart.net/d320/i/2016/246/0/4/league_of_legends_nami_by_sensiblebunny-dagbqjs.png
: but wukongs skin is already gold..
Not Radiant Wukong, Jade Dragon. https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DydHMlR1bMc/WNPXHwYuk0I/AAAAAAAAgn8/dNhHnmaMHHEhONAAhD5S2BsQB39QqQ7BwCLcB/s1600/wukongturn.jpg replace the dragons and other similarly colored parts gold. Make the green parts white and it would look amazing.
Sukishoo (NA)
: I think a lot of the previous Lunar skins should have gotten Chromas too :(
Yea, considering they also gave some of the older ones texture updates, a lot of older Lunar skins could have used one just for the sake of a texture update alone.
Death Rex (EUW)
: i kno de wae
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/333012091051180033/401507859990577162/UAlistar.png "I kno de wae"
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 12
Is there any word on when Wukong might be seeing a gameplay update?
: because you can just ctrl+s and make people think you used your decoy while the real you is just standing there. but doing that takes skills and mind games.... not just pressing W while doing something else which would be more easy and simple
Actually you don't need to press ctrl with S, just pressing S does the same thing. Unless ctrl makes the stop as sudden as using his decoy. just wanted to point that out there.
HoneyOTU (OCE)
: He's okay atm. Someone like Lissandra needs it more.
She's been touched up time and time again. I believe within the 4 years Wukong has remained untouched, She's gotten work done at least 2-3 times. Luckily if things pan out with this season the way Riot is hoping, there should be no reason to argue over who needs it the most as they will both be able to fit both of them in this year (especially since they plan to mix other classes in between Diver updates), but can we at least get Wukong something to end his dry spell first?
: Hi! Thanks for such in-depth feedback, I'll respond to each section individually below: > [{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=q297Ffwe,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-01-10T22:18:17.981+0000) > > Personally I prefer him to remain as a Diver myself. Diver is a safe spot for him because it allows for the option to play Assassin as some people like, but also lets him be a durable fighter like {{champion:58}} or {{champion:80}}. I don&#x27;t play assassins or Skirmishers very well because of the fact they are not durable and I&#x27;d hate to see him be pushed in a that direction that completely negates that aspect of him. > Aside from that, I *believe* Divers are being updated to allow for more sustain damage style fighting like a skirmisher as something to help differentiate them from Assassins (Don&#x27;t quote me on that, Its only stuff I&#x27;ve noticed from recent Divers but has not been confirmed by Riot as far as I know) so him being a Diver doesn&#x27;t really mean he can&#x27;t have AS based mechanics, in fact being a Diver welcomes such mechanics. I'm with you so far. > As for his kit: > > **Q** is a bit like {{champion:59}}&#x27;s Q. Not to sure about having it be so similar to that, but its also not like every ability needs to break the mold and do something that is completely different then any other in the game. My only real gripe I&#x27;d say I have is that I&#x27;ve played Dota, Smite and Paragon and the Wukong&#x27;s in those games all have a similar Skill shot ability. Its not a big issue and its far from exactly the same either way (as all of those are not exactly the same either), but still felt it was something worth bringing up. No, oh no! It's not like Jarvan Q, you misunderstand. It is an auto-attack reset that applies a bonus effect the next time he attacks an enemy. His staff extends and it strikes that enemy (which he auto-attacked) any enemies standing behind that enemy are also struck, in a narrow line. He has to position around the first enemy correctly for the ability to form a line that would hit other enemies. If the second enemy is instead off at an angle or to the side of his attack-target then the staff strike will miss that second enemy. Sort of like Lucian's Q except it is an auto-attack instead of a point and click ability. > **W** is okay like you said, but it could still use some animation tweaking. To me it&#x27;s a bit like how {{champion:92}} had that mechanic that was originally a bug, but ended up getting cleaned up to be a proper part of her kit. If the animation for Wukong&#x27;s clone could look exactly like him pressing S, that would make it feel much better in the long run. I will also say that the AP damage attached to his W feels out of place as it stands since he doesn&#x27;t build AP (currently, it may as well do flat damage .-.) . Might be worth looking into when you go to make tweaks to the idea. I was not aware that the clone gives any tell that he switched with it, I've stood still and then cast the W before and at least as far as I could tell the opponent didn't notice. I agree with you, the AP on Wukong's W seems out of place, and I would like for it to be changed to either flat damage, AD scaling, or have some additional effect instead. You might like this player's concept for Wukong's W: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/J9QjfpF8-concept-wukong-update They made it interact with the rest of his kit a lot more thoroughly, and it ended up being pretty cool! > **E** looks interesting, but I know Vector casting like that is one of those things that newer players would have some trouble with. Another thing that could be done is have the clones attack the target they target for a % of Wukong&#x27;s AD, that way it can play on the deception angle a bit better. Right, it would make him a little harder for newer players to use well, I personally would be okay with that. But I understand if you or others would not be. I like your idea for having the clones attack the nearest enemy, if we don't have something happen where they last longer then that would definitely work well as the alternative way to make the E tricky. > **Ult** is a very dangerous thing to replace completely. Every champ has those things that are their bread and butter abilities and for Wukong that&#x27;s his Ult (and his decoy, but there are ways to tune that without taking away from it and you didn&#x27;t change that either way). I could see why you would replace it with the direction you went with, but its one of the things I believe a lot of Wukong players like about him and removing it would likely feel as bad as Removing {{champion:98}}&#x27;s Teleport/Taunt or {{champion:267}}&#x27;s Tidal Wave/Bubble. Yeah I understand, it's very different and changes the direction of the champion's design and playstyle a lot. Maybe if this ultimate were not going to be used for Wukong it would be cool to have Riot put it on a new or reworked champion instead! > I think that&#x27;s about about it. This does look interesting for the direction you were looking to take it, but I don&#x27;t think I&#x27;d be the best judge for this as I don&#x27;t really share the mind set of building Wukong to be a full on squishy damage dealer. I like Wukong being a damage dealer who can take hits pretty well as it&#x27;s pretty much one of the interesting parts about him as a character in Both League and even most other forms of media that has Wukong in them. Thanks for such in-depth feedback! I respect your stance on this, and I do understand that a lot of people like Wukong's current playstyle and theme. I've said this elsewhere but I'll say it again here, we're not 100% attached to this concept remaining the way it is or even remaining together at all. If Riot borrows even one idea from this design I would be extremely happy, and I don't expect them to just take the whole idea and implement it.
No problem, tried hard to not come off as offensive since I know a lot of work can go into these, happy to see it was taken with stride. As for the W animation pretty much the Decoy makes a very sudden stop while the S button is a smooth stop. I believe its not too easy to spot especially for beginners, can be caught if you know what to look for. I think all that it would take to fix that is to make the decoy continue walking for about 1-2 steps when Wukong is in motion, just enough to make it so switches from his walking animation to his idle animation like when pressing S.
: Wukong is fucked in general, he's supposed to be a sorta tanky fighter but everyone plays him like an assassin and so when he's strong he's overbearing. He needs help desperately
http://i.imgur.com/uJk01CI.gif "Tanky" is a bit much (people tend to think you mean tanky like a Juggernaut or a Tank when you say that I've learned >_<) but Durable for sure. I like playing him as a Diver because I like playing durable champs. I don't play Assassins because I don't like playing Squishy champs who can get blown up easily.
: I have 400k mastery on wukong, but I haven't played him in a while. Why would I ? Top lane he gets fucked in the ass by almost everyone. Even if you win vs. tanks, they just build tank, cc you in teamfights and you're useless. In the jungle he gets 1v1ed by a red buff and is open invitation for invades. You can play him mid lane, but that's just a cheese pick, and you get harassed by anyone just for trying to take cs. If you check his history, wukong wasn't TOUCHED since season 4. LOL we're going into season 8. He wasn't touched for literally 4 years.
I would recommend trying him out mid. I've taken him there and have been doing pretty well. He hits his Power spike faster since mid levels up faster, he can get to bot lane to assist easier in mid lane and generally doesn't need to worry about a mid laner killing his turret while hes gone, the short lane frees up a Summoner Slot that normally would be taken up by Teleport and Mid lane Assassins that avoid top lane because of Champs like him are suddenly forced to face him. If it doesn't work out then hey, at least you gave it a shot.
: Wukong could do with some modernization, so my friend and I came up with a rework:
Personally I prefer him to remain as a Diver myself. Diver is a safe spot for him because it allows for the option to play Assassin as some people like, but also lets him be a durable fighter like {{champion:58}} or {{champion:80}}. I don't play assassins or Skirmishers very well because of the fact they are not durable and I'd hate to see him be pushed in a that direction that completely negates that aspect of him. Aside from that, I *believe* Divers are being updated to allow for more sustain damage style fighting like a skirmisher as something to help differentiate them from Assassins (Don't quote me on that, Its only stuff I've noticed from recent Divers but has not been confirmed by Riot as far as I know) so him being a Diver doesn't really mean he can't have AS based mechanics, in fact being a Diver welcomes such mechanics. As for his kit: **Q** is a bit like {{champion:59}}'s Q. Not to sure about having it be so similar to that, but its also not like every ability needs to break the mold and do something that is completely different then any other in the game. My only real gripe I'd say I have is that I've played Dota, Smite and Paragon and the Wukong's in those games all have a similar Skill shot ability. Its not a big issue and its far from exactly the same either way (as all of those are not exactly the same either), but still felt it was something worth bringing up. **W** is okay like you said, but it could still use some animation tweaking. To me it's a bit like how {{champion:92}} had that mechanic that was originally a bug, but ended up getting cleaned up to be a proper part of her kit. If the animation for Wukong's clone could look exactly like him pressing S, that would make it feel much better in the long run. I will also say that the AP damage attached to his W feels out of place as it stands since he doesn't build AP (currently, it may as well do flat damage .-.) . Might be worth looking into when you go to make tweaks to the idea. **E** looks interesting, but I know Vector casting like that is one of those things that newer players would have some trouble with. Another thing that could be done is have the clones attack the target they target for a % of Wukong's AD, that way it can play on the deception angle a bit better. **Ult** is a very dangerous thing to replace completely. Every champ has those things that are their bread and butter abilities and for Wukong that's his Ult (and his decoy, but there are ways to tune that without taking away from it and you didn't change that either way). I could see why you would replace it with the direction you went with, but its one of the things I believe a lot of Wukong players like about him and removing it would likely feel as bad as Removing {{champion:98}}'s Teleport/Taunt or {{champion:267}}'s Tidal Wave/Bubble. I think that's about about it. This does look interesting for the direction you were looking to take it, but I don't think I'd be the best judge for this as I don't really share the mind set of building Wukong to be a full on squishy damage dealer. I like Wukong being a damage dealer who can take hits pretty well as it's pretty much one of the interesting parts about him as a character in Both League and even most other forms of media that has Wukong in them.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 10
Has there been any word on when {{champion:62}} could be seeing a Gameplay update yet?
: Wukong really deserves a Project skin. He fits in just fine among the weapon users and ties in thematically with Master Yi. I personally want to see Wukong, Shen, Thresh, Jax, and Diana get Project skins. A "third wave" of Projects designed to go after the escaped first wave, which of course means it fits to use the counterparts of the first full set of Project champs (Yi, Zed, Lucian, Fiora and Leona). Zed, if I interpreted the cinematic right, didn't leave with the others, but Wukong and Shen would be the defectors from this wave anyway.
He would be good for a Project skin, if not Project then some cybernetic skin line. Hell, I've seen a Cyberpop looking skin design for him that would be pretty cool to see.
: Sometimes I feel like the only person that doesn't think Xayah and Rakan are a cute couple{{sticker:sg-lulu}}
I mean, I see them as that sickeningly cute couple that both annoys me and also makes me depressed that I'm single .__.
Nylisa (EUW)
: > were not available due to having other skins already planned or in other cases having either gameplay or full re-works coming up. " could this mean irelia? i can see her as candidate for lunar year skin! also i appreciate the insight on "why" these champions were choosen.this is sort of a communication we needed during SG Ahri release which created another wave of negative feedbacks or latest Annie skin. players might not agree with the choices even after it but still its nice to know why atleast. oh and PS : > They're an adorable couple in Runeterra Thats up for debate really! same as Rakan's "lovable" personality which is mentioned too many times by Rioters!
>They're an adorable couple in Runeterra >Thats up for debate really! https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/333012091051180033/400391423783862282/Hes-right-you.jpg
: > [{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kXJAygbE,comment-id=0006000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-09T19:37:41.735+0000) > > relying on a single item is FAR from saying your kit can 100-0 someone, and really that&#x27;s the point I&#x27;m trying to make. {{item:3147}} does not make Wukong or any other Diver an Assassin, {{champion:63}} is not a support just cause he took {{item:3092}}, {{champion:54}} isn&#x27;t suddenly an Assassin because he went full AP. Just cause the meta shifted in a way that supports something else, doesn&#x27;t mean your something else now. If Wukong was EVER supposed to be an Assassin in any way, he would have at LEAST been listed as a hybrid Assassin, but he&#x27;s not > > https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses > > This list has been updated time and time again at this point. He is only listed as a Diver because that&#x27;s what he&#x27;s made to do. When Riot does go to update his kit, they will update him to fit with the DIVER role, not the Assassin role. > I don&#x27;t know why you keep trying to argue otherwise. ah so I guess Sivir is no longer an adc since apparently building infinity edge doesn't mean you're an adc. It just means you built the adc item. Also _"the meta shifting in a way that supports something else doesn't mean you're something else now."_ that's literally what I have been telling you. Wukong was made during a time when bruisers were a thing. When you didn't have focused jobs in teamfights. When games were about what your champion could do for themselves rather than for the team. Then they re-defined the classes. and never changed wukong to fit those new definitions. which is why trying to describe him in any form as a diver makes zero sense since he was never designed with diving in mind. he was designed around being a bruiser. Tanky and does damage.
... your joking right? Tanky and does damage is NOT what a Diver is. That's a Juggernaut. A Diver is durable, sure, but not "Tanky" as in being able to take all the damage from the enemy like a Juggernaut or a Tank. https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses "Divers are the more mobile portion of the Fighter class. Divers excel at singling out high-priority targets to blitz toward, immediately forcing those targets (and their teammates) to deal with the diver’s presence. Divers are not as durable as the tanks or juggernauts of the world, but Divers can take their fair share of punishment while bringing enough damage to be a real kill threat if left unchecked." Wukong has been and should ALWAYS be a durable fighter that is mobile. Diver is the term he has been put under because that is how they expect him to work and when Riot finally updates him, he will be balanced around the above concept in mind.
: Hello! There's a lot to unpack here, but I'll do my best to address the points you've made in this thread. **Why was Lux selected for a Lunar Revel skin this year?** I pinged my product owner for a reply for this one, since he's more deeply involved in the selection discussions than I am myself, and I didn't want to misconstrue anything. *"From early on we decided to do Warwick and Nasus for year of the dog, with the idea of exploring good dog and ‘bad’ dog. As we developed the idea further with them being divine door guardians we coupled it with having a powerful godly princess they would be protecting to balance out the skin offering. Lux was the champion that fit the best for this fantasy and since her last skin was over a year ago we felt ok with adding her to the group for this year, and she is also an extremely popular champion in countries that celebrate Lunar New Year, so we also feel these players will appreciate having her be part of this celebration. Other champions that could have also made sense, that were less fitting on the role anyways, were not available due to having other skins already planned or in other cases having either gameplay or full re-works coming up. "* **What's the deal with the Illaoi skin?** We realized that Illaoi had waited quite some time for a skin, and felt that letting players vote for a thematic would be a great way to involve the community, as opposed to just popping a new skin on PBE. We submitted three concepts that were vastly different from each other to give everyone a variety to choose from. Granted, not everyone's favorite would be selected, and as such, not everyone would be super happy about the result, but imo, having a voice in voting is better than having us say, 'here's an Illaoi skin, kthxbai.' This project also enables us to really show what goes into creating a skin, which may shed some light on why we make choices, why things do and don't work, etc. **Okay, but there are a bunch of champions who are in desperate need of skins.** You're absolutely right. Some champions that you've named had pending reworks in 2017, such as Eve and Urgot, which made them ineligible for new skins. Swain's currently sitting on that waitlist right now. We tried to tackle some of the champion who needed love last year - Viktor, Cassiopeia, Yorick, to name a few. We have a ton planned for 2018, and I can assure you we've considered champions who haven't seen a new skin in a while. **Xayah and Rakan skins, though?** We felt that this was a no brainer for this year's Valentine's Day skins. They're *love birds*. They're an adorable couple in Runeterra, it seemed like a really good fit! This pairing of skins - Sweetheart - was one of the most suggested thematics from players for these two when they first released. **Riot's a business.** Yep, we are, but we truly do strive to be the most player focused games company in the world. I understand that we aren't perfect and that we do fall short at times - who doesn't? I'd highly encourage you (and everyone!) to continuously give us constructive feedback - both positive and negative - tell us why something does or doesn't suck, seriously. It's honestly the best way for us to know what we should keep doing and what we should do better. You aren't going to hurt our feelings, so please, be honest like you have been in this thread.
I have just one request. If {{champion:62}} gets a skin this year, please give him a skin in something that doesn't tie to Journey to the West/ Asian culture in some way (preferably something in a main skin line, but beggars can't be choosers). I would greatly appreciate it >.<
: > [{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kXJAygbE,comment-id=00060000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-09T18:58:44.737+0000) > > and under both definitions of Assassin, they were squishy as hell but had a lot of damage. Wukong&#x27;s passive alone makes him more durable then any Assassin can manage and is part of the reason he&#x27;s not in the Blood Moon mode, even though some other Divers are. > and as a side note, that&#x27;s wrong about the 100-0 thing. {{champion:28}} was always considered an Assassin (both in the old definition and the new one) and she never was made to 100-0 anyone. Her new kit made so she could Burst easier to be in line with other Assassins, but her old one was never able to 100-0 someone. Eve's old kit actually had 100-0. then they removed DFG then every eve player complained (with the diehard players going for the rylais+liandries to stay relevant) then she kinda sat in the dead forgotten champion pool until they added protobelt. then she kinda became semi-decent until she got her rework. then she was kinda mediocre/bad. then the new runes came out. then she was good.
relying on a single item is FAR from saying your kit can 100-0 someone, and really that's the point I'm trying to make. {{item:3147}} does not make Wukong or any other Diver an Assassin, {{champion:63}} is not a support just cause he took {{item:3092}}, {{champion:54}} isn't suddenly an Assassin because he went full AP. Just cause the meta shifted in a way that supports something else, doesn't mean your something else now. If Wukong was EVER supposed to be an Assassin in any way, he would have at LEAST been listed as a hybrid Assassin, but he's not https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses This list has been updated time and time again at this point. He is only listed as a Diver because that's what he's made to do. When Riot does go to update his kit, they will update him to fit with the DIVER role, not the Assassin role. I don't know why you keep trying to argue otherwise.
: > [{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kXJAygbE,comment-id=000600000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-09T18:41:35.314+0000) > > and your missing MY point. He was never made to be a squishy Assassin and never had mechanics that primarily supported the idea of him playing an Assassin. It was just a convenient option like it is for {{champion:141}}, but to a lesser extent. > > They didn&#x27;t fit a square peg into a round hole with him because his mechanics are exactly in line with what they defined a Diver to be (Less Durable then a Juggernaut, More durable then an Assassin, has easy access to enemy back line with less escape potential). If you look at other Divers, he worked exactly like them and still does to an extent considering most Divers listed today (even the outdated ones) prefer to go with Lethality like him. Divers building like assassins isn&#x27;t only HIS issue atm, its a problem with most Divers. > > The only reason Assassin builds are outclassing the Diver builds is because they are so similar that Divers can abuse lethality to blow up the main threat. Its unhealthy because they are easily able to jump on top of the enemy and stay alive just long enough to blow up the ADC, then die because they can&#x27;t get away, but it works because the ADC is the where the most of the damage threat is and killing them leaves a huge opening for the Divers team, so it ends up being a trade off in favor of them. > > Wukong fits the role just as well as any other Diver does. If there is ANY Diver who should be reclassified as an Assassin, it should be {{champion:164}} due to her having more reliable escapes then most other Divers and has better burst. > The current meta doesn&#x27;t support Divers as a whole. Most, if not all are building like Assassins and pretending that&#x27;s enough of a reason to make him an Assassin is misguided. He's an assassin because under the old definition of assassin, it was just 100-0. That's it. That's all you needed to do as an assassin. Can't 100-0? then you're not an assassin. That is why leblanc and rengar were considered assassins. That was why utility mages had the utility of being capable of assassinating. That is why wukong who has a 100-0 combo was considered an assassin. The **new** definitions state that assassin's also need be like zed and have "disengage mobility" which is why Ekko was given that ult instead of something actually related to time. And why a bunch of previously classed assassin champs were re-assigned to diver.
and under both definitions of Assassin, they were squishy as hell but had a lot of damage. Wukong's passive alone makes him more durable then any Assassin can manage and is part of the reason he's not in the Blood Moon mode, even though some other Divers are. and as a side note, that's wrong about the 100-0 thing. {{champion:28}} was always considered an Assassin (both in the old definition and the new one) and she never was made to 100-0 anyone. Her new kit made so she could Burst easier to be in line with other Assassins, but her old one was never able to 100-0 someone.
: wu kong is cancerous, be very careful in buffing this dude. Also thematically fizz's E should be given to wu kong
I'm not saying buff him. I'm just looking to modernize his kit, maybe take some power out of his extremely powerful ult and spread it evenly to the rest of his kit.
: > [{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kXJAygbE,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-09T09:33:50.184+0000) > > But he IS still classified by **Riot** as a Diver, not an Assassin. This is because of how he is expected to work is exactly how Divers are supposed to work, which is being an Anti-Carry champ who is more durable in exchange for not having a reliable escape. Wukong doesn&#x27;t have a reliable escape, like most other Divers. He wasn&#x27;t made in the time when they replaced the term Bruiser with Diver, but the roles didn&#x27;t change that much. > > A Diver is a subclass of Fighter, which is exactly the same as Bruisers. Wukong sure as hell isn&#x27;t a Juggernaut and actually fits the role of Diver to a T, which is why he&#x27;s listed as a Diver and not an Assassin. Wukong&#x27;s decoy is about as good of an escape tool as anything {{champion:19}}, {{champion:421}}, {{champion:58}}, {{champion:5}} and {{champion:59}} have. On the other hand, Assassins like {{champion:55}}, {{champion:7}}, {{champion:105}}, {{champion:238}} and {{champion:121}} have much more reliable ways to get in and out of a fight then Wukong could ever hope for. > > On top of that, Wukong has his passive MADE help him survive in the fray, just as WW and {{champion:5}} have their passives, {{champion:266}} and {{champion:421}} have sustain and {{champion:254}} and {{champion:164}} have shielding all to keep them alive in a fight BECAUSE they lack the ability to escape from a fight well. > > He may not have been created when Riot reclassified champs, but its really not that hard to see why they put Wukong as a Diver. nah you're missing the point I'm making here Riot ASSIGNED him the role of diver. They looked at his square peg character role, and tried to fit him into the circle hole of divers class. Then told everyone yes, that's how it should be. Even if he doesn't fit the role perfectly. What they DIDNT DO, was change him to fit. They did not carve his square character into a circle to properly support his assigned niche. And you said it yourself, he hasn't been updated in 4+ years. He was made in a time when all he really had to be was tanky and do relevant damage (usually with a hydra). Aka a bruiser/fighter. That was all that ever mattered when he was designed and changed. The new class definitions are why he's been forgotten. And why if you try to look at his current balance state and compare it to a diver will only make him look bad. He's not a bad champion (some might say that his E always doing damage without counterplay is BS), but him not filling the role of a diver which was assigned to him is why he looks bad.
and your missing MY point. He was never made to be a squishy Assassin and never had mechanics that primarily supported the idea of him playing an Assassin. It was just a convenient option like it is for {{champion:141}}, but to a lesser extent. They didn't fit a square peg into a round hole with him because his mechanics are exactly in line with what they defined a Diver to be (Less Durable then a Juggernaut, More durable then an Assassin, has easy access to enemy back line with less escape potential). If you look at other Divers, he worked exactly like them and still does to an extent considering most Divers listed today (even the outdated ones) prefer to go with Lethality like him. Divers building like assassins isn't only HIS issue atm, its a problem with most Divers. The only reason Assassin builds are outclassing the Diver builds is because they are so similar that Divers can abuse lethality to blow up the main threat. Its unhealthy because they are easily able to jump on top of the enemy and stay alive just long enough to blow up the ADC, then die because they can't get away, but it works because the ADC is the where the most of the damage threat is and killing them leaves a huge opening for the Divers team, so it ends up being a trade off in favor of them. Wukong fits the role just as well as any other Diver does. If there is ANY Diver who should be reclassified as an Assassin, it should be {{champion:164}} due to her having more reliable escapes then most other Divers and has better burst. The current meta doesn't support Divers as a whole. Most, if not all are building like Assassins and pretending that's enough of a reason to make him an Assassin is misguided.
Fefnil (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kXJAygbE,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2018-01-08T20:55:11.433+0000) > > The typo is on Wukong&#x27;s wiki page under his patch history. > > http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Wukong > > Pretty much the lists of changes ascends from the older patches at the bottom then goes up as new patches get added, but it says 4.5 then 4.18 for some reason. I&#x27;m not 100% sure if it meant to say 4.15 then 4.18 or if 4.5 was supposed to be after the 4.18, but there is at least an problem with the order. It could be his last update was in 4.5, but I tried to go off of memory from what the last stand alone update to his kit was, and from what I remember the change to the fog of war was later, so that made me assume that the part that says &quot;4.5&quot; was a typo. Ok, my suspicion was correct then. 4.18 is not 4.1.8. It came AFTER 4.5 because, you know, 18 comes after 5. XD So numeration is totally correct, there were 13 patches between the former and the latter. Anyway, back to the topic, probably it's because I'm not a Wukong player, but the problem I see is that, yeah, maybe his fantasy as a Wuju enlightened monkey inspired by the Sun Wukong is not fulfilled, and maybe his skills are outdated, but the kit IS cohesive and coherent with itself. His kit is an hybrid assassin-diver, and fulfills both well, with all spells being useful for both playstyles, much like a Rengar and a Kayn, which are also both hybrid assassins-divers. That's why I think he is low on the priority for updates. It's not like older champions like old Sion and Galio or Nunu that have/had general purpose skills that don't really blend in together. Maybe it's not the right kit for Wukong himself, maybe his kit would be better on another champion thematic wise, but it doesn't mean that it's not a coherent kit that would probably be up even for modern stardards, with some tweaks.
That's actually what I'm asking for and what he should be up for. I'm not saying he needs a full on VGU like Nunu needs or Sion and Galio needed. I'm saying he needs a gameplay update with some tweaks to his kit to modernize it. I'm just looking to avoid him being left alone for so long that he gets placed on the VGU list because there are champs like {{champion:20}} who ARE on that list and would be far greater need then Wukong, making him ignored for years to come. I'm not saying he'd end up on that list anytime soon and honestly Nunu would likely be updated by the time he would be put on that list (Just using him as an example), but Wukong would still be very far behind champs who would likely be on that list at that time.
: > [{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kXJAygbE,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-01-08T13:23:53.656+0000) > > He&#x27;s not made to be an assassin though. It&#x27;s something he can opt for if needed, but he&#x27;s supposed to be a reliable Diver first and an off Assassin second. On top of that, he suffers the same issues that {{champion:5}} had with his kit being outdated and very binary with no skill expression and they&#x27;ve updated him, why not {{champion:62}} when they even have been showing interest in him getting an update? You say he's supposed to be a **_diver_** and assassin but your OP clearly points out that he hasn't been looked at for well over 4 years. His original design was balanced around when the bruiser class existed- he's a bruiser assassin according to the old classification system. And since he hasn't been changed or looked at, his role in the current class system can't really be used to define him since he's not been balanced or designed around the new class system (to the point where he's never been a meta champ for those 4 years or filled any of the niches he was assigned appropriately at a competitive stage).
But he IS still classified by **Riot** as a Diver, not an Assassin. This is because of how he is expected to work is exactly how Divers are supposed to work, which is being an Anti-Carry champ who is more durable in exchange for not having a reliable escape. Wukong doesn't have a reliable escape, like most other Divers. He wasn't made in the time when they replaced the term Bruiser with Diver, but the roles didn't change that much. A Diver is a subclass of Fighter, which is exactly the same as Bruisers. Wukong sure as hell isn't a Juggernaut and actually fits the role of Diver to a T, which is why he's listed as a Diver and not an Assassin. Wukong's decoy is about as good of an escape tool as anything {{champion:19}}, {{champion:421}}, {{champion:58}}, {{champion:5}} and {{champion:59}} have. On the other hand, Assassins like {{champion:55}}, {{champion:7}}, {{champion:105}}, {{champion:238}} and {{champion:121}} have much more reliable ways to get in and out of a fight then Wukong could ever hope for. On top of that, Wukong has his passive MADE help him survive in the fray, just as WW and {{champion:5}} have their passives, {{champion:266}} and {{champion:421}} have sustain and {{champion:254}} and {{champion:164}} have shielding all to keep them alive in a fight BECAUSE they lack the ability to escape from a fight well. He may not have been created when Riot reclassified champs, but its really not that hard to see why they put Wukong as a Diver.
: I'm onboard amigo, lets get the Wukong rework train rolling! I'll post a rework idea at some point this week, been working on something for about a week now with a friend of mine.
Sounds good. I'm not planning on posting ideas for his kit right away but will be neat to see what ideas others have come up with :p
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Blue Moon Wolf

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